Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: What Would a "Bipartisan" Obama Look Like? (Hint:...

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You make an interesting point, but the assumption ...

2009-04-15T19:12:11.772-04:00

You make an interesting point, but the assumption that the seat is worth what is currently being paid for it is wrong. That is how much can be afforded during an election cycle with many competitors (for the donations). What we're finding out now is that it's ACTUALLY worth much, much more.

Wow. This comments section just continues to get ...

2009-04-15T01:31:42.162-04:00

Wow.

This comments section just continues to get more and more juvenile.

Wow! There actually is some bipartisanship in this...

2009-04-14T16:07:23.278-04:00

Wow! There actually is some bipartisanship in this country.

I'm watching Newt Gingrich and Rev. Al Sharpton on C-SPAN, having a friendly debate at the National Action Network. They are saying they mostly agree with each other about the roots of poverty and how to deal with the failures in US education. It's nothing like the Gingrich speak to the Republicans a few days ago, also shown on C-SPAN.

Sharpton just invited Gingrich to the march in commemoration of Brown vs. Board of Education, and Gingrich accepted. (Caveat: He has to check his schedule.) Gingrich says it's worth doing just to see the expressions on people's faces as he and Sharpton march side by side.

(IMNSHO, C-SPAN is the best news organization in the country, in large part because its management doesn't subscribe to the idea of covering only "mainstream" ideas, and doesn't waste the viewers' time with talking head analysis of what you just saw and heard for yourself.)

@Contrarian: It isn't a matter of having the "bes...

2009-04-14T14:33:12.341-04:00

@Contrarian:

It isn't a matter of having the "best of you", because it is only you engaging in a contest. Your entire agenda is to engage me in conversation, because apparently, I am the only human contact you have.

There is no contest. I understand you. I understand why you are acting out. Regardless of your physical age, I understand the adolescent fun you derive out of swearing at others, without consequence. I understand the control issues you have, and your need to exercise them in an anonymous and safe environment where no retaliation is possible.

I even understand your need to get the last word, because it will make you feel like you have "won" this non-existent contest. Well, be assured you will have it. I hope it comforts you, that you take solace for a few minutes that you have somehow won something, finally, in a life that has been a series of failures. Even if it is just an empty victory in a one-sided flame war.

That is all I have to say for now, so feel free to rant out a response. I hope it gives you some momentary pleasure.

@Contrarian: I didn't call you a subordinate, eit...

2009-04-14T12:35:08.153-04:00

@Contrarian:

I didn't call you a subordinate, either. I suspect that is just more projection on your part, you feel subordinate.

That's too bad. It does explain your attitude, however, you feel helpless, sad, lonely, and subordinate? No wonder you are reduced to curses and wishing people ill; you feel like society has betrayed you. That is truly unfortunate.

@Contrarian: You still have my sympathies, anybod...

2009-04-14T12:04:27.144-04:00

@Contrarian:

You still have my sympathies, anybody whose emotions overwhelm them as much as your emotions overwhelm you is, in a literal sense, pathetic. I presume you think that "hurling insults" is in some way effective. And of course it is, just not in the sense of effective argument: denigrating others makes you feel good.

Well, making a good and logical argument makes me feel good; but apparently that is not a route available to you. Perhaps you lack the intelligence, or perhaps the facts won't cooperate with your preconceived agenda. So you take the one route that does make you feel good, invective and a pathetic attempt to be creative with it.

Now I didn't say you were "sad and lonely", you said that. Which makes me think you translated my assessment into what the truth was for you, and then denied it.

So, I am sorry you are sad, I am sorry you are lonely, I am sorry your only entertainment is trying to trigger negative emotions in others.

You have my pity. I hope your life improves.

Tony C. Actually, I think Obama's best game plan i...

2009-04-14T11:37:01.214-04:00

Tony C.
Actually, I think Obama's best game plan is a little bit of deception: Bipartisan rhetoric, sure, but also get some of the hard left stuff to make a little progress and garner a little press, so his "bipartisan compromise" is to throw away what he never thought would fly anyway. Put up a few straw men for them to knock down, so you can claim they were victorious and you "compromised."I think you're right, and I also think Obama is doing that to a certain extent already, even with his own base.
DC has forgotten how to play sleight-of-hand power politics and the White House knows this. So while many are occupied with day-to-day politics, Obama is getting things done, rightly guessing that the politics will be forgotten in the long run.

Nate, I love you and look forward to your awesome ...

2009-04-14T11:30:16.148-04:00

Nate, I love you and look forward to your awesome genius in future elections. But politically, this site has become nothing but an extension of the DLC. (Even that gasbag Keith Olbermann has started to wake up.)

Barack Obama is a goddamned fraud. 538 pretends to be a progressive(sort of) website. Let me begin with a simple question: why should progressives support directions and policies which are not progressive?

First, the man. NO ONE in modern US history has been blessed with Barack Obama's political skills. His intelligence, charm, elegance, grace, life experience. and good humor. Unmatched. He's the product of two parents who(in their very different ways) were genuine activists for the Left in the 60s and 70s. And no presidential candidate in US political history has written a book as astonishing and moving as "Dreams from My Father". For me, it was the reading of that book which forced me to always give this man the benefit of the doubt, in the face of all kinds of hints he wasn't what he pretended to be, hints available all through 2007 and 2008. (BTW, the true stupidity of the Right claiming "dictatorship" and "totalitarianism" from this man, who always appeals to decent and thoughtful instincts is, well, as brain-dead as the Right always is.)

Second, the opportunity. Take Reconstruction, the TR/Progressive period, 1933, the JFK/RFK/MLK/Malcolm 60s. If you combine the nation-wide backlash against all Bush/Cheney represents, the two slogging inconclusive wars, and most importantly the world-wide economic collapse which occurred last autumn(a collapse in which the villains were quite obvious), has there ever been a greater opportunity to lead the country strongly toward all things progressive than this man had with his election?

(And btw, we can parse words all we want. But Obama ran as a transformative, even at times a revolutionary[in an American context]candidate. That was his music.)

Yet what has occurred? What has he done with the seething hatred of all things unfair and fixed in the country, the hatred toward all things, you could say, Reaganesque?

Nothing. He has done nothing with it. All major positions have been filled by retreads, Clinton retreads, Wall Street retreads, even Bush retreads. What positions or directions has he taken which can be called more than timid? And most positions have been less than timid, most have been right-of-center or reactionary. (Torture, spying on the US, Bush/Cheney crimes, expanding the Central Asian wars, killing Card Check, now backing off on Cap-and-Trade, increasing the Pentagon budget, replacing Blackwater with a new[Chicago-based!] mercenary force.)

And to look at his response to the Wall Street-induced world-wide collapse is to vomit:

Appoints the same people who designed and implemented the disaster.

No investigations of any kind.

No investigations of any kind

No investigations of any kind

No firings of anyone(Oh, wait except for members of the auto industry)

A hidden, secret, completely unaccountable transfer of trillions of dollars from the taxpayers to the very people that caused the collapse.

No new laws passed or proposed(as of today) to change or re-regulate anything.

No signs of new employment, increase in wages for workers, worker safety protections, the strenghening of unions(which is the ONLY way to reverse the total corporatization of the US).

But PLENTY of signs that the Vampire Class is going to get away scott-free. Examples: here in NYC, the dramatic drop in rents has not only reversed, but has started to creep up beyond where they were last summer; the mind-boggling announcements by many banks and credit companies of INCREASED usury rates and fees; remember all those incredible deals and sales we were offered in November, December and January? Where are they now?

The sighs of relief can be heard loud and clear here in Manhattan.

Regarding comparisons, we do not have to look to Cuba or Stalin or Mao or whatever. Just to our own history. Yes, Wall Street and the Hedge Funds may have thought they had bought themselves a President. But that is what High Finance thought in 1933. And before long, some members of that class were conspiring with members of the military to overthrow FDR. (See Butler, Smedley) In 1960, we had a man who the Mob and National Security State thought was in their pocket. Turned out very different. At every opportunity Kennedy had to use massive violence(see the Somali pirates), he refused, Laos, the Bay of Pigs, the Berlin Wall, Indonesia, the missiles in Cuba, and Vietnam. Meanwhile, the Attorney General of the US went after everyone: the mob, US Steel, the Fed, Big Oil.

Where is the Bobby Kennedy and his Get Hoffa Squad in the context of this Administration and the far far far worse crimes caused to most of the world by the Banksters??

And the argument that he hasn't had enough time does not wash, because of the awesome and historic decisions he has already made. Obama will be -- and should be --judged by only one thing, due to the economic circumstances of his taking power: did he break the back of the Financial Oligarchy which over a 30-year period caused the US to be a Third World State, or did he strengthen it?

I think we already know the answer to that question.

And how he has boxed himself in! Is there anyone at 538 who thinks he'll have the money to fund a national health care plan? Or the rebuilding of the country's infrastructure? Or moving the society away from oil and gas? Rebuild public education? Heal the states?

(IMHO, this is the "real reason" for the timing of this convenient "collapse".)

I guess it's possible he could "turn". But if so, the way he's been mousetrapped by the Establishment, he'd have to start talking like Noam Chomsky, and that would last about 3 paragraphs before the feed would go dead and we'd find out the next day he was blown up by Somali pirates.

The saddest part of all this is what will happen when Obama -- who will be seen as representing "liberalism" no matter how far to the right he goes -- exits the stage. I was sure that, no matter his failings, he would at least change the parameters of acceptable policy for his successors. But he is already moving the goalposts further and further to the right, as did Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. We know what followed then. What makes you think that a post-Obama world will not also leave us with a 2016 version of Reagan or Gingrich or George W. Hitler?

@Brian: Actually, I think Obama's best game plan ...

2009-04-14T11:28:43.921-04:00

@Brian:

Actually, I think Obama's best game plan is a little bit of deception: Bipartisan rhetoric, sure, but also get some of the hard left stuff to make a little progress and garner a little press, so his "bipartisan compromise" is to throw away what he never thought would fly anyway. Put up a few straw men for them to knock down, so you can claim they were victorious and you "compromised."

Poor Contrarian; nothing to say, but so much anger...

2009-04-14T11:23:18.843-04:00

Poor Contrarian; nothing to say, but so much anger to vent. You must be one truly miserable individual. My sympathies.

@Contrarian: Wrong. Liar.Take an economics/finance...

2009-04-14T11:14:03.059-04:00

@Contrarian:
Wrong. Liar.Take an economics/finance course if you don't understand TonyC's very simple point. You either honestly don't understand the simple principle at work or are willfully professing ignorance.

The sad thing is, Contrarian, when you aren't drooling curse words and frothing at the mouth, you actually add something constructive to the conversation. Many of us may disagree with your POV, but that's what honest disagreements and a multi-party system are all about.

The game theoretic solution for Republicans is to ...

2009-04-14T11:09:37.955-04:00

The game theoretic solution for Republicans is to portray Obama as being partisan no matter what the reality is.

Obama had his campaign promises which constitute areas where he has little leeway for compromise. For the most part, he's kept those promises.

In areas where has worked in a bipartisan fashion (see the stimulus package), he saw Republicans influence legislation only to vote against it, essentially watering down what Democrats actually wanted.

Obama's game theoretic solution is to continue with the bipartisan rhetoric and extend his olive branch; but ask Democratic leaders in Congress not to make any concessions to the Republicans at all.

As long as the Republicans are strident obstructionists, they have little credibility with the electorate on the topic of bipartisanship.

@nova: And I say the math adds up just fine, and ...

2009-04-14T10:20:06.167-04:00

@nova:

And I say the math adds up just fine, and those concerns are unfounded. The Republicans are spouting the same old tripe as always, using scare tactics to say we cannot afford it. Those scare tactics work with a certain percentage of the population that still gives them credit. Those are the "concerns".

But arithmetic and logic are not up for a vote! Either we can afford it or we cannot, and any actual analysis of the actual proposals, whether done at a broad level or in mind-numbing detail, all say the same thing: We can afford it.

That doesn't mean it has no impact, it doesn't mean that taxes will stay the same, it might mean tax increases. But afford does not mean it is free. The question is whether we are able to pay the interest and eventually pay back the loans and the answer is yes, without a doubt, we can do that.

Heres the key takeaway from the Gallop poll "Obam...

2009-04-14T09:40:47.216-04:00

Heres the key takeaway from the Gallop poll

"Obama has promised not to raise taxes on all but the wealthiest Americans. There are concerns that his proposed budget relies too much on borrowed money, and the president may be forced to raise taxes on a greater percentage of Americans, or to scale back his plans to reform the healthcare system and invest in education and alternative energy."

As I have been saying the math doesn't add up

Contrarian, just a quick note. Fuck off and die. ...

2009-04-13T22:27:17.189-04:00

Contrarian, just a quick note. Fuck off and die. Seriously.

Actually, the logic of Schmitt's claim (setting as...

2009-04-13T22:01:26.697-04:00

Actually, the logic of Schmitt's claim (setting asside the question of veracity), is not necessarily that, once "drawn out," bad faith on the part of conservatives then, for Obama, legitimates a partisan approach. That doesn't have to be Obama's reaction.

In fact, Obama seems to have a knack for taking the most well-reasoned form of conservatism and making that his political foil. The problem is that few conservatives appear to be upholding its most reasonable forms - or at least a form willing to engage in good faith policy discussions.

To float a really counterintuitive notion,... because his foil is well-reasoned conservatism rather than actual conservatism, Obama may very well be the best thing conservatism has going for it as a living, coherent political philosophy.

nova_middle_man said... I believe the fetus is a p...

2009-04-13T20:18:33.091-04:00

nova_middle_man said...
I believe the fetus is a person with rightsSo, is that position based in the 'unchanging' Catholic position on contraception, birth control and abortion? That a fetus is a human from the moment of fusion between egg and sperm?

May I suggest that you do some study of Pedro Hispano (later Pope John XXI) and his recipe book for pre- and post-coital contraception? It might change your opinion about the 'unchanging' Catholic position on contraception, birth control and abortion.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

n_m_m wrote: "The Rs still hold the ultimate weapo...

2009-04-13T20:16:22.697-04:00

n_m_m wrote:
"The Rs still hold the ultimate weapon on taxes though."

Not so much.

"A new Gallup Poll finds 48% of Americans saying the amount of federal income taxes they pay is "about right," with 46% saying "too high" -- one of the most positive assessments Gallup has measured since 1956."

"In this year's poll, slim majorities of both lower- and middle-income Americans say they pay about the right amount of taxes, while upper-income Americans tend to think they pay too much."

That "ultimate weapon" isn't looking as good now, is it? Surprisingly, only 53% of those making more than $75K/yr say that their taxes are too high - the exact same percentage of Republicans who say their taxes are too high.

In fact, the percentage of Republicans that say their taxes are too high has actually dropped 5% since 2008.

And "outrage over high taxes" is the ostensible point of the "tea parties".

I love that it took Nate an entire ESSAY to explai...

2009-04-13T19:41:41.908-04:00

I love that it took Nate an entire ESSAY to explain something that doesn't really make much sense. The fellow over at RCP was making a point that is easy for EVERYONE, Republican or Democrat, to understand: that Obama hasn't been quite above partisanship in the way he PROMISED he would.

He made that point well. Nate goes around his ass to make a not very good point - c'mon Nate, I didn't realize you were quite that partisan yourself. Even you must admit that Obama hasn't been quite as partisan as he promised, and that that's bad.

So apparently the big strategy for the Republican ...

2009-04-13T18:38:36.406-04:00

So apparently the big strategy for the Republican return to power is to call Obama 'radical'.

If only someone would have tried this big strategy in the recent presidential election, think of how differently things would have turned out.

In fact, the Republicans could try calling Obama a radical, a terrorist, a traitor, and inform people that he is secretly a Muslim. That way they'll be bound to win!

The secret ingredient missing from this grand strategy is, of course, credibility. The GOP has none of it with the public, and the fringe of the Party has even less credibility than the Party in general.

You have to do better than making your case to The Big Wingnut In The Sky. He might give you a "terrorist fist-jab", but no electoral votes go along with that.

Perhaps if you waved some tea bags around....

@Contrarian:You seem to have forgotten, that incom...

2009-04-13T18:23:56.558-04:00

@Contrarian:

You seem to have forgotten, that income is $5T, but that does not include corporate earnings, which brings us to $12.5T. You also choose to ignore the fact that deficit spending is borrowed money, we only have to pay a fairly low interest rate on it, and we can pay it back over time. Obama has explicitly ruled out raising the budget on a permanent basis, the budget is increased to prevent a depression.

Now, as far as your little hate filled tantrums: I know, and I presume every adult here knows, you are just filled with so much self-hatred it is overflowing into our thread. Don't worry, we don't take it personally. We presume you are in psychological pain, that is probably what is limiting your comprehension as well. You have my pity.

Please remember, do not feed the trolls.

2009-04-13T17:53:16.339-04:00

Please remember, do not feed the trolls.