Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: On Harry's Hindsight

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2009-10-09T08:14:16.739-04:00

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2009-03-28T05:04:00.000-04:00

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2009-01-16T04:23:00.000-05:00

Now all of a sudden the far Left has a problem wit...

2009-01-08T22:50:00.000-05:00

Now all of a sudden the far Left has a problem with Harry Reid? Funny they had no problem with him saying the war in Iraq was lost, or that making English the official language is racist. It's further evidence that the Left can't distinguish the important from the trivial.

BeanoCook:"quasi candidate"? Really Nate?"quasi-ca...

2009-01-08T18:16:00.000-05:00

BeanoCook:
"quasi candidate"? Really Nate?

"quasi-candidate" = black

nice one Nate. Racist.

Nate did not characterize Roland Burris as a "quasi-candidate."

In point of fact, Nate characterized Roland Burris as a "quasi-credible candidate."

Given the well known circumstances of Burris' selection, Nate's characterization of him is spot on and says at least as much about the one who named Burris, and the mode and manner in which he did so, as it does about Burris himself.

In any case, an apology is indeed in order here, and it isn't Nate who ought to be bellying up to deliver it...

Statler,Interesting scenario, but look at what Rod...

2009-01-08T16:28:00.000-05:00

Statler,

Interesting scenario, but look at what Rod's doing. I'd submit that, rather than about to piss himself, he's got the deranged look of a sociopath who's actually hoping you try to take him out so he can see if he can kill you and the victim before you get a shot off, and probably will shoot rather than listen. If he was really scared and looking for a way out, he wouldn't have hired Genson to represent him - he had very competent counsel who walked away rather than rep him on this stuff(pissing metaphors and Genson just go together, since his biggest win was getting a walk for R Kelly). If he was looking for a way out, he wouldn't have suddenly done more work in his official office than he has in about 2 years (it totally hacked off people who had been using his office as spare meeting space). He wouldn't interpret the bodies stacking up like cordwood around him as evidence of a grand conspiracy (which in his own words includes every single person who asked for his resignation, including Obama). I don't know how anyone deals with that sort of problem - other than trying like heck to keep him from killing you, too.

51st - welcome to the discussion. Amazing the amount of garbage Rod's in that the US Atty isn't even touching yet (Capri included), and the Legislature's report is focused almost enitrely on 2004-05 and the Senate seat, ignoring his reallocations of "vetoed" funds and barely scratching the surface of shenanigans on FOIA requests, executive orders, etc.

mhz - I don't think that's Obama's operational mo - much more of a Bush thing. I seriously think they underestimated her need to be consulted. Obama doesn't like public confrontations, and seems more apt to at least run his ideas by folks than just railroad them.

At the same time, I love the way he's laying out a comprehensive outline for stimulus that basically says to everyone on both sides this is a last, best offer. He will come in for complaints from people (Kerry, John and McConnell, Mitch) who really are more used to fighting than being productive, and I've no doubt he'll give them something to make each and every one of them feel better, but at the end you watch - he's going to get what he wants. I've only known a couple of people who can work a situation this way, and they are remarkably successful.

I donno, why say anything? Wait until the gov did ...

2009-01-08T15:04:00.000-05:00

I donno, why say anything? Wait until the gov did what he was going to do and deal with it then. I really don't see why the senate maj leader had to get involved in any way. If Blago had made an appointment that was clearly tainted, they could have dealt with it then. Seems like a federalism issue. The appointment is in the hands of the state; credentialing is federal.

In some ways this is the best result Reid can get,...

2009-01-08T12:51:00.000-05:00

In some ways this is the best result Reid can get, he "gets stuck" with another reliable democratic vote who he fought because of the corrupt process. And in 2010, a reform democrat will wipe Burris and the bad taste he and Blago leave away.

A special election might win a little love from the eggheads in the press and a few good-government fans, but it might cost a senate seat, which is the coin of the realm Harry Reid lives in. Governors appoint Senators occasionally, it has been thus since 1913 and it will be thus for the rest of the history of the republic. Some of those senators suck (Zell Miller), some are great (Walter Mondale) and some are thoroughly mediocre (Wicker, Burris), about the same average as all the other Senators.

Now - any issues that actually matter to anybody?

thanks for the torture joke Statler (not words I t...

2009-01-08T11:11:00.000-05:00

thanks for the torture joke Statler (not words I thought I would ever write!). Perhaps those noises heard from Reilly's office were the first rumblings to warn that his head is actually going to explode?

Reid could have looked up the rules and said nothi...

2009-01-08T10:22:00.000-05:00

Reid could have looked up the rules and said nothing, but it ask could have said the truth: "This is an Illinois state matter. As long as a replacement is made that follows Illinois and federal law, that replacement Senator will be seated." It was a damnable situation that he made worse by offering an ultimatum he couldn't enforce. Anyone should have seen that up front and not tried to take an opportunity to insert themself in the scandal of the moment. Obama mis-stepped here, too.

The single best argument I have ever heard for bei...

2009-01-08T09:39:00.000-05:00

The single best argument I have ever heard for being a Dem is that they make better comedians:))

WV: supha- I think it is supha that Franken will be seated- I just hope it is in time to vote on the stimulus package!

It's okay :) I agree the Democratic party leadersh...

2009-01-08T09:25:00.000-05:00

It's okay :) I agree the Democratic party leadership has not been up to par since 1994 or so, perhaps earlier (we're wading into before-my-time territory there)

here, this will cheer you up. One reason I supported Al Franken is I sensed that things were going to be a little rocky for a while, and we can all use someone at the helm who has a sense of humor during tough times. Look at the bright side of things: Bill OReilly is losing his mind publicly over the fact that he isn't as influential as he thought he was. Despite this, Franken has kept his good humor.

I'm not saying we should laugh at our Republican colleagues for being so over-the-top. Nor am I suggesting we regale them with laughter whenever they start spouting extremist rhetoric at us again. But hey, we could all use a smile, and watching Franken eviscerate Ann Coulter is always something that meks you feel good about being a Democrat deep down inside :)

@BBiL and DCMI am not sure DiFi's noises about Pan...

2009-01-08T09:15:00.000-05:00

@BBiL and DCM

I am not sure DiFi's noises about Panetta are so important. Rachel Maddow's 1/6 MSNBC piece was very interesting. Obama and Biden might be willing, even compelled, to smooth her feathers after the fact, but so what? She has not threatened to block the appointment. Kinda reminds me of the line-"It is easier to get forgiveness than permission".

fwiw:
http://www.truthout.org/010709E

DiFi's support of seating Burris was a good call and may be seen aa providing the Dems and Reid an out. True, I wish Blago had simply resigned. But given that Blago didn't resign, I am glad that the second IL senate seat is filled with a person, like Burris, who is likely to attend every vote and who is likely to vote in favor of the best options on the table. I have no access to Burris's inner world but I think he will not be controlled by Blago.

Seems to me the question at this point is:

"what is going to work?"
not
"who is winning. "

@SnW- sorry about the caps and using WE. I do not mean to speak for others. Nevertheless, I do feel that the leadership in the Democratic party and the US public are responsible for allowing, even facilitating, the events of the last eight years.

TP made an excellent post. Burris will be appointe...

2009-01-08T08:40:00.000-05:00

TP made an excellent post.

Burris will be appointed provided he testifies that he didn't pay for the appointment, even though the person who appointed him has been indicted for attempting to sell the appointment. But is Illinois such a model of probity that Burris' testimony is certain to be true? Is this a satisfactory process for somebody to become a member of the United States Senate? No.

One of the reasons why Burris has won is that he is widely perceived to be a worthy appointee, but can that really be true? Would a worthy person accept an appointment offered in such corrupt circumstances? Would a worthy person so blatantly put personal ambition ahead of the interests of the public and its faith in the system of government? No, it must be concluded that he is not a worthy person.

But ultimately he is being appointed largely because of the extraordinary over-sensitivity to race in the United States. Senate Dem leaders announce that they will not seat anyone appointed by Blago. Blago appoints an Afro-American. Senate Dem leaders refuse to seat him. Senate Dem leaders are accused of racism. Eh? They would clearly have refused to seat a white man, but because they refuse to seat an Afro-American they're racists?

If Burris was white, he wouldn't have won. Burris is black and has won. If that's racism, it's a strange form of racism by any standards.

Beano Cook-Don't be an idiot, Burris is a quasi-ca...

2009-01-08T07:22:00.000-05:00

Beano Cook-

Don't be an idiot, Burris is a quasi-candidate because his electoral career had ended, and he hadn't won a statewide race in in more than a decade. His last loss was to Blago himself in 2002. So, is Burris really a candidate in 2010 without this appointment? No. Is Burris a truly credible guy who could have won this on his own? No. Is he credible from an experience standpoint? Yes. Thus, I think quaasi-candidate is a fitting tag.

Get over your race baiting.

beanocook, don't be ridiculous.538 at 60.4% in the...

2009-01-08T06:58:00.000-05:00

beanocook, don't be ridiculous.

538 at 60.4% in the Weblog voting - nearest rival 8.5%! Way to go Nate.

"quasi candidate"? Really Nate?"quasi-candidate" ...

2009-01-08T05:18:00.000-05:00

"quasi candidate"? Really Nate?

"quasi-candidate" = black

nice one Nate. Racist.

Good, Tweety is no Democrat. Patrick Murphy FTW!!!...

2009-01-08T05:11:00.000-05:00

Good, Tweety is no Democrat. Patrick Murphy FTW!!!

BTW, no Senator Matthews from PA.http://www.msnbc....

2009-01-08T02:50:00.000-05:00

BTW, no Senator Matthews from PA.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28549212/

Thank you TP. I could not have said it better.And...

2009-01-08T02:47:00.000-05:00

Thank you TP. I could not have said it better.

And this is the simplest reason why Clayton v. Powell does not control the Burris case. The Clayton case protected the electorate who had voted for him from being disenfranchised by a bare majority of Senators from other states. This is much more attenuated. The only thing Burris's seating would protect is the ability for Illinois to appoint a Senator in accordance (maybe) with its laws. That's fundamentally different, IMO.

I might add that anyone who allows himself to be used in this way out of sheer ambition and thus undermine the public confidence in our democratic institutions is not, in my book, a "nice" man.

Anyone should be blamed in this mess should be the...

2009-01-08T02:28:00.000-05:00

Anyone should be blamed in this mess should be the Illinios State Legislature- Mike Madigan for not acting quickly in having a Special Election to fill the VACANT IL US Senate Seat or Give LT GOV Pat Quinn the power to appoint or require Blago get the IL State Legislature to vote to approve his pick for the VACANT IL US Senate Seat. It would be difficult for the US Senate to refuse to seat Burris when the IL State Legislature voted to approve Burris's appointment to the US Senate.

Those who believe that the U.S. Senate doesn't hav...

2009-01-08T01:54:00.000-05:00

Those who believe that the U.S. Senate doesn't have the authority to refuse to seat Roland Burris, or who believe that it's embarrassing to refuse to seat a nice man who would be the only African-American Senator, are ignoring two crucial realities.

First, a seat in the United States Senate is not the property of any governor who has the authority to appoint a person to fill a vacancy, and any person so appointed has no "right" to occupy that seat on such authority. The seat belongs to the people. This is a political process, and as the Supreme Court has said on many occasions, the Congress needs to be given ample leverage as a body representing the people and as a separate branch of government to conduct its affairs, unless some egregious violation of rights is being committed.

Moreover, the Senate is entitled to act reasonably to preserve its integrity as an institution. The governor who made this appointment was only a few weeks ago arrested by the FBI because a federal prosecutor believed he had sufficient evidence to indict him for making such an appointment in exchange for campaign donations or other favors, and the timing of the arrest was dictated by the prosecutor's fear that the governor could imminently make a Senate appointment after having solicited such donations or favors. The Illinois political process has not had sufficient time to impeach the governor and remove him from office, but that is predicted to occur in less than two weeks. Defiantly, the disgraced governor went ahead and made an appointment. It is impossible to know whether or not Blagojevich obtained any consideration from Burris for appointing him, but if the Illinois attorney general and secretary of state don't trust this appointment, why should the U.S. Senate? The Senate has every right to defend the integrity of its membership from any appointment made by this governor.

Second, no federal office should be occupied by someone appointed by an executive who is accused by a federal authority of extorting bribes from prospective occupants of the office. If our political leaders cannot prevent such an executive from using this kind of appointment for his own purposes, we can forget about discouraging corruption in our national political affairs. There is something much larger at stake here: the public's confidence in our democratic institutions. They will not believe that our politics is free from the suspicion or the fact of corruption unless and until it is.

Roland Burris is being used by Rod Blagojevich to enable him to cling to some appearance of political authority and effectiveness, in the face of impending impeachment. The Senate is not obligated to follow suit. This farce must end, without Blagojevich's appointee being accepted. If that is not the outcome, the public should assume that it will take much longer for our politics to undergo fundamental change.

A man with a hostage has his back to a wall. He is...

2009-01-08T00:23:00.000-05:00

A man with a hostage has his back to a wall. He is some distance from you, armed, and can kill the hostage seconds before you kill him. You cannot shoot him before he kills the hostage. Or you, or both, or all three. He's desperate, has no way out, and is practically pissing his pants, and you can tell he really does not enjoy his current position. Assume you do not want the hostage to die, and possibly that you do not want the shooter to die either, or yourself.

Hollywood says you shoot anyway, and by some miracle of Tinseltown, the bullet will magically defy the laws of physics, and the hostage can walk out in John Wayne's arms to a sea of flashing cameras.

Reality says you try to talk him down. If you can get the shooter to drop the gun, or at least allow you to disarm him through trickery, you could save the day.

Hollywood is for children. Reality is for adults.

Now, substitute all references to the shooter with Blago, the victim with the Senate, and you with the FBI investigator.

hehehewatching a rerun of Rachel Maddow & luving h...

2009-01-07T23:40:00.000-05:00

hehehe

watching a rerun of Rachel Maddow & luving her in the miner's hardhat riffing on the senate DEMS & Obama 'caving' on Burris

'senate spelunking' indeed

Rachel is competing with Jon Stewart & Colbert

although Colbert's gig with Colmes was funnee too

CRAPOwell your name basically says it all...which ...

2009-01-07T23:33:00.000-05:00

CRAPO

well your name basically says it all...

which begs the question about your comment re: SnW

but I will play anyway - your comment above is neither constructive nor witty; merely 'shitty'

imho of course...