Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Minnesota Supreme Court Rejects Coleman's Claims, ...

@Cugel, I see it as the GOP having money problems...

2009-07-01T15:49:46.428-04:00

@Cugel,

I see it as the GOP having money problems and them having little chance for big fund-raising for 2010 and 2012.

yeah, Coleman is likely having money problems, but he has already destroyed any future political prospects, so has nothing to lose.

Perhaps the GOP is acting rationally? Stranger things have happened.

Matt wrote: "@Shane: You're right, that some post...

2009-07-01T11:44:56.871-04:00

Matt wrote:
"@Shane:

You're right, that some posters here jumped the gun. Their distrust of Coleman was somewhat justified, as he'd dragged the process out longer than appropriate; but in IMHO, it wasn't fair to dump on Pawlenty, who'd pretty well avoided getting terribly partisan in this protracted battle."

Let's be fair here.
Cornyn said multiple times that the election could be held up for years in court challenges. Those court challenges would have to come from Coleman, and would have to financed by the GOP.
After the election court ruled in Franken's favour, Pawlenty made no public statement that he would sign the election certificate if the MNSC ruled in Franken's favour. That only happened less than two weeks ago, and the statement from Pawlenty was qualified. At no point before 6/30 was it clear that Pawlenty would sign the certificate unless there were specific instructions in the SC's decision to do so.

All Pawlenty had to do was say that he would sign the certificate if Coleman lost. He didn't do that, and you could make an equally strong case that he led Republicans to believe that he would defy the MNSC. It was the only "role" Pawlenty had in the entire affair, and he played it in such a way as to encourage speculation on both sides.

@PeteKent: Since you didn't post insults or off-t...

2009-07-01T07:04:07.748-04:00

@PeteKent:

Since you didn't post insults or off-topic carpoola, I'll respond to a couple of your points.

I don't agree that Clinton is a very successful example that "the Democrats ran best when they ran right." He "succeeded" in handing control of the House to the Republicans for the first time in 40 years. True, he did balance the budget, with the Republican Congress. Butt mostly, he succeeded in getting re-elected--and not with 50% of the pop vote.

LBJ was most successful when governing from the Left (Medicare, Civil Rights); his classic tragedy came when his governance pandered to the Right (Vietnam). FDR, the most successful Democratic president in history, also governed best from the Left.

Secondly, it's silly to characterize Franken as "A vulgar, has-been comedian, who loves the limelight and can be counted on to speak and act kooky." Have you seen any evidence of this during the long campaign or the recount? I certainly haven't. Rather, I expect him to behave as a respectful and respectable senator. I do hope that he lets his hair down and gets witty once in a while.

It's funny to see Republicans ridiculing Franken for his non-traditional resume, when they've elected and nominated was-been actors like Reagan and Ah-nold and intellectually challenged athletes like Jim Bunning and Lynn Swann.

Stock up on your victory balloons now. You'll know how Jack Kent Cooke felt in 1969.

I think it's easy to over estimate the importance ...

2009-07-01T04:53:06.898-04:00

I think it's easy to over estimate the importance of 60 votes. I wonder if moderates like Landrieu or Lincoln for instance would vote for cloture on a bill they don't support, and we've already seen a level of pushback from moderate Democrats. I'm sure that the GOP will talk about 60 votes a lot but I wonder if the reality will match the talk.

I do wonder if Obama isn't blindsiding a lot of his critics on the right. There seems a level were the right is picturing some left wing hell of socialised medicine and environmental fascism. I wonder if the right will look very foolish when the reality doesn't match the rhetoric.

What I meant to say was that this is a great day f...

2009-07-01T00:47:32.158-04:00

What I meant to say was that this is a great day for comedians everywhere. And I couldn't be more serious, thank you.

Finally! It's about time we had the same Constit...

2009-07-01T00:05:18.633-04:00

Finally!

It's about time we had the same Constitutional representation as other Americans.

"mclever said... beamman -- go easy on Franken. T...

2009-06-30T22:57:43.982-04:00

"mclever said...
beamman -- go easy on Franken. Though some consider the use of "enormity" as "immense" to be nonstandard, it isn't so black-n-white."

Yeah, well....

It is interesting, though, that if you look "enormity" up on Onelook Dictionaries, every dictionary linked feels the need to have a cautionary sentence about the nuances in the usage. I haven't seen that for any other word.

On Al Franken- I honestly see this as a tactical ...

2009-06-30T22:46:35.815-04:00

On Al Franken-

I honestly see this as a tactical negative for the Democrats.

Now as a matter of political physics Obama should have the votes to enact any law he wants and the Democratic leadershp can pass any legislation they want.

Bur Obama, Pelosi and Reid (now there's a Troika for you!) must still cobble together the votes of what remains a substantial moderate to conservative wing within the party (it is much larger than the moderate to liberal wing of the GOP).

As a positive force the Democrats ran best when they ran right. Bill Clinton is the most sucessful example.

Obama won more in the vein of the throw the rascals out variety. Whatever you think of his present ideology, it is nothing like the ideology (such as it was) Obama during the campaign. It would be difficult to call his an ideological victory and if so, then what kind?

The center will not hold. It is too far to the Left.

Franken is a brilliant poster child for the Democrat Party and the Minnesota Supreme Court decision IS GREAT NEWS FOR - - - JOHN MCCAIN!!!!

The public is already showing signs of doubt concering Obama's policies. Right now much of the angst among the public stems from sticker shock. But as the public begins to percieve the height of the stakes it will begin paying closer attention to the policy debate.

People will look back at the frenetic effort to pass the Cap and Trade bill in the House as "the tell" (Where has Sean been? Have I mised something??) .

1200 pages of what amounts to a tax on carbon, esp as energy, a tax that has to fall disproportionately on the poor, a climate control bill that penalizes clean natural gas while subsidizing dirty coal.

Curious, no?

The spectre of a Senate as much under the thumb of Harry Reid as the House is under Pelosi's is sure to spook the electorate.

The bizzare new legislation that seems to be being passed right over the people's heads, bills that are incomprehensible unless someone is willing to step up and provide a teaching moment, but all we get from BOTH SIDES are talking points, will seem all the more questionable if the economic recovery is as tepid as most of the people in the know think it will be.

At some point the misery and fear attendant on double digit unemployment will break through the guazy haze of love the media feels for Obama and which prevents many of us from feeling the hard times so many in the nation are enduring. Sympathy will turn to fear as the job markets churn and until unemployment falls below 7% and stays there for a while.

Such even mildly favorable conditions are unlikely to be in place by the time of the 2010 midterms. It will be a bloodbath.

Without Obama at the top of the ticket the disaffected segments of the electorate (conservatives, the economically disadvantaged, former Obama voters who are disenchanted by his failure to keep his pledges) will overhwhelm the movement Democrats who can be counted on to come to the polls.

Franken is sure to be among the poster children. What a standard bearer and symbol of the excesses of one party rule: A vulgar, has-been comedian, who loves the limelight and can be counted on to speak and act kooky. Think Barney Frank, but with stage presence. Think David Letterman! Nicely done, Dave! Chris Dood will add Mafia glamour to the whole mix. In order to dilute these votes and voices alone there will be a 10 seat pick up by the GOP in the Senate!

For Obama there will be a clamor for triangulation, to turn rightward as Clinton did and beat them at their own game.

It's an even money bet that Obama can pull off another win based on his charisma alone (and his chutzpah). After all the people bought Bill's crocodile tears for two terms (but he had help from Perot).

Even money for an undivided GOP to beat Obama in 2012. Even money Obama wins.

Would you lay that bet down now?

It might pay 2 - 3 by Election Day 2012. Nice arbitrage there . . . .

petekent01 (on twitter)

beamman -- go easy on Franken. Though some consid...

2009-06-30T21:04:52.863-04:00

beamman -- go easy on Franken. Though some consider the use of "enormity" as "immense" to be nonstandard, it isn't so black-n-white.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enormity

To quote:

3. greatness of size, scope, extent, or influence; immensity

Enormity has been in frequent and continuous use in the sense "immensity" since the 18th century...

And, finally, congrats to Senator Franken!

Oh, hold up...that was Mule Rider under a differen...

2009-06-30T20:29:16.834-04:00

Oh, hold up...that was Mule Rider under a different handle??

Ohhhhh-kay...that explains a lot.

Nice try, Ass-Rider or whomever the hell you are, but you lose again. You were funnier when you were running your buttsecks smack at Nate...this time, you are just plain pathetic.

One word, asshat: Fleshlight.

I'll just leave it at that and let the rest of you use your imagination to decipher that one.

Nexxxxxt!!!!

Anthony

You have to wonder why Norm gave up so easily and ...

2009-06-30T20:25:45.665-04:00

You have to wonder why Norm gave up so easily and why Pawlenty decided to go ahead and sign the certificate.

Obviously it was obvious from the beginning that he had ZERO legal case and the S.Ct. just slapped him down hard with a unanimous verdict.

An 8-0 verdict completely rejecting all of Norm's arguments probably made it harder for either Norm or Pawlenty to go forward, but who really cares what the courts think?

The right wing from the first has been about blocking a liberal senator for as long as possible. That's all it's ever been about. There was NO realistic legal chance of a Norm victory other than convincing the U.S. S.Ct. to pull another Bush v. Gore and throw aside the law once again.

But, their appetite to do that for a mere U.S. Senator was always in question. Throwing aside what few principles you have for a PRESIDENT is one thing. But, saving Norm Coleman from the consequences of his defeat just isn't that important.

Still, they might have dragged this race out for a few more months if they'd been willing to defy public criticism.

Apparently, Norm has better things to do than pour more money into this hopeless battle just to delay things a bit more.

You know. I go away for a few weeks and come back ...

2009-06-30T20:18:39.024-04:00

You know. I go away for a few weeks and come back and there's Mule Humper under another pseudonym or his clone still raging against "marxist niggers."

This is really what the ass-hats think in rural Tennessee. When it comes to a debate, they can't go for more than 30 seconds without screaming about "niggers" or "wet-backs" "ruining this country."

Just another damp tuft of rectal hair on the butt-end of life.

Last (for now): Al Franken fully earned his place...

2009-06-30T19:45:17.848-04:00

Last (for now):

Al Franken fully earned his place in the Senate. Today, I'm confident he once again raised a glass (imaginary or no), looked up, and silently said, "This one's for you, Paul!

This is great that this is finally over, and that ...

2009-06-30T19:43:08.535-04:00

This is great that this is finally over, and that Coleman actually found the decency to give up (though he couldn't help but twist the "disenfranchisement" B.S. knife in his statement).

A little disappointed that my fellow Harvard alum Franken doesn't seem to know that "enormity" means "great evil," NOT "really huge." Oh, well...

As of this post, Doctor Who has fully proven that ...

2009-06-30T19:41:50.994-04:00

As of this post, Doctor Who has fully proven that he is beyond any desire to debate issues civilly or factually, but is only here to spew racism, hate, and general bigotry.

Why do you come here? You claim to hate us, call us evil. And yet here you are with your inability to accept any that are different to you, resorting to racial slurs and baseless accusations based on a man's race.

The only person "Talking shit," is you, sir. What evidence did you have to make any claims about Anthony Kennerson? Then why would you call him a Marxist? Call his behavior "radical eroticism"? Because all you come here to do it hate.

To be honest, I don't know why I've wasted my time with you. I guess the urge to "Feed the trolls," as they say, is too strong sometimes.

@Shane: You're right, that some posters here jump...

2009-06-30T19:41:31.896-04:00

@Shane:

You're right, that some posters here jumped the gun. Their distrust of Coleman was somewhat justified, as he'd dragged the process out longer than appropriate; but in IMHO, it wasn't fair to dump on Pawlenty, who'd pretty well avoided getting terribly partisan in this protracted battle.

I trust that even the most partisan Republicans in the Senate won't have the audacity to try a filibuster. It's about Democracy.

@Anthony, Well written...but you don't have to de...

2009-06-30T19:37:51.751-04:00

@Anthony,

Well written...but you don't have to defend yourself against someone who tries to soil the good name of Doctor Who with every post.

wv: homis: homis where the hate is.

Doctor Who is only the newest incarnation of the h...

2009-06-30T19:37:26.582-04:00

Doctor Who is only the newest incarnation of the hapless Mule Rider.

He thinks changing handles every so often but keeping the same hate-filled ignorant rhetoric will help him.

Since Doctor Who thinks that my race, personal sex...

2009-06-30T19:28:07.860-04:00

Since Doctor Who thinks that my race, personal sexual proclivities, and my personal politics should be the main topic rather than what is supposed to be the main topic, I believe that I am entitled to a rebuttal here.

Yes, I am a lefty, probably well to the Left of what passes for the center of political debate here. Yes, I am a bit more liberal, even a bit radical, on the subject of sexual expression. Anyone is invited to view my blog and find out for themselves what I say and how I think, and reach their own conclusions, pro, con, or indifferent. I could care less what you think of me or my views, as long as you respect that they are mine and mine alone.

Frankly, I couldn't give a Hoover's Dam full of bat guano what any wingnut thinks of my views or my politics...but when you break out the N-bomb in public discourse, that changes everything. Then it's no longer simply spirited political debate or even even-handed smackdowns; it becomes hate speech.

Notice, Doc, that nowhere in my posts here have I EVER broke out any form of insults about your personal views other than for the general stupidity and lies and usual Limbaugh/O'Reilly regurgitated talking points....yet, you are so free to use neo-Nazi/Ku Klux Klan saw stories about Black people in general to attempt to slam me as a "Stalinist", a "Marxist". and a "porn addict"?!?! Please...try actually reading what I write before you crank that nonsense out of your colon....ahhh, I mean, your mouth.

Of course, I forget that in your twisted mind, anyone who dares to oppose you who's not your kind of right-winger becomes a "Stalinist"/Marxist/Socialist/Liberal/Islamacist/anti-Semitic/illegal alien/homosexual/porn addict....oh, did I leave anything out????

And for the record, dewd, I happen to be a single, childless, 45 year old Black man who has a steady job as a customer service supervisor at a nationally known retail outlet. The only "niglets" that I deal with every day are my nephews and nieces whom I love and adore dearly as real people...but I guess that your racist pompous ass probably can't stand that, either??

The only thing that you are showing with your diatribes is your abject ignorance and total lack of working brain cells, other than the one synapse that the likes of David Duke and Hal Turner or Michael Savage feed to you each day.

Any piling on that you are getting here is entirely on you, Doc Sparky for not knowing how to quit when you are behind.

Now, Doc, kindly take the hint and either get back to the real subject of Coleman v. Franken, or just peddle your shit somewhere else.

Oh..and kindly kiss my Black Stalinist porn addicted ass, too. Or, don't...I could care less.

Anthony

As for Al Franken I'm glad this ordeal is finally ...

2009-06-30T19:12:37.030-04:00

As for Al Franken I'm glad this ordeal is finally over, but the idea of one party controlling Congress so thoroughly isn't giving me warm fuzzies.

I would agree with you if the GOP had anything of substance to contribute.

They are doing nothing but drooling on themselves and chucking shit on the wall.

There are several factions within the democratic party so no one idiology is going to win out every time and there will be debate among them.

The batshit insane far right must be drooling and ...

2009-06-30T19:05:33.262-04:00

The batshit insane far right must be drooling and babbling more incoherantly then usual today!

Glad it is over and Minnesota can have its 2 senators.

Doctor Who… You are Exhibit A for why the GOP ap...

2009-06-30T18:59:02.810-04:00

Doctor Who…

You are Exhibit A for why the GOP appeals to fewer and fewer people all the time. The Republicans don’t have leaders anymore, just cranks like you, who, as soon as the argument turns against them, can do nothing but spew hate.

Don’t pretend you used “invective and racial slurs” to make a point. You used them because that’s who you are, and apparently we don’t need to scratch very deep to let it out.

The best aspect of 538 is the variety of people who post here to debate various scenarios involving the future of the country. The worst aspect is you.

But...but...but... Weren't there a fair number of...

2009-06-30T18:28:18.407-04:00

But...but...but...

Weren't there a fair number of people here (including some posting in this thread) that were taking Pawlenty and Coleman to task because they (the posters) assumed Coleman would take it to the USSC and Pawlenty wouldn't sign the certificate? What? You mean that didn't happen? It ended at the MNSC? Wow...guess the posters weren't making completely partisan attacks that were based completely on assumption.

In all seriousness, it was kind of funny to watch the posters bash Pawlenty and Coleman for things they didn't do, and actually never did.

vw: claem: People made a claem that P + C would do things that never happened.

Doc Time to pop back in the Tardis, dude. If you ...

2009-06-30T18:13:03.545-04:00

Doc

Time to pop back in the Tardis, dude. If you have a point you've wrapped it up in so much hate that only your fellow rabies sufferers would go along.

BTW I don't defend P-gun's schtick [sic], either, despite my political beliefs.

This format attracts crazies but in general 538 is pretty civil.

@Nate: thank you, even if the outcome has caused s...

2009-06-30T18:06:23.727-04:00

@Nate: thank you, even if the outcome has caused so much psychic pain to the losers and the advocates of the Party of No(body).