Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Where McCain Lost It

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2009-02-09T06:44:00.000-05:00

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2009-01-18T01:46:00.000-05:00

Maybe this is funny / ironic; I don't know.During ...

2008-10-18T00:51:00.000-04:00

Maybe this is funny / ironic; I don't know.

During Saddleback, McCain listed John Lewis as one of the three wisest men he knows.

The candidates have a major difference in their le...

2008-10-17T03:17:00.000-04:00

The candidates have a major difference in their leadership styles, i've noticed: McCain tends to say, "Follow me because the other guy can't get it done" while Obama says, "Follow me because I can get it done." ... of the two of them Obama demonstrates a better leadership mentality

McCain's October Suprise is just Clinton rehash. ...

2008-10-17T01:00:00.000-04:00

McCain's October Suprise is just Clinton rehash. A lot of people moaned about the Democratic primaries, but it's good that the Clintons went for it because the press is bored with McCain's microwaved arguments against Obama.

Also, McCain attributed a child with autism to his running mate, Sarah Palin. He meant down syndrome. It's a mess, his October surprise should be suspending his campaign until November 5.

As a traditionally Republican family we can honest...

2008-10-16T21:03:00.000-04:00

As a traditionally Republican family we can honestly say McCain is out-matched in every way by Obama, in personal qualities and Policies. We got the impression that McCain sounded like he was desperate and really trying to 'sell' himself to the public. His consistent negativity during the debate was ugly, very ugly. He's a genuine disgrace to our party sad to say, that's why all of us are voting for Obama. McCain is just to ugly of a person to run this great country, no way you can have good foriegn relations acting te way he does.

Nate, any idea why the Gallpup Likely Voters (Trad...

2008-10-16T18:17:00.000-04:00

Nate, any idea why the Gallpup Likely Voters (Traditional) poll is so close?

I understand tax policy. And I understand we are i...

2008-10-16T17:48:00.000-04:00

I understand tax policy. And I understand we are in for some real problems when people have an effective "negative" tax rate - i.e. they are not paying any taxes but are getting money from the government that was paid for by wealthier citizens and was given to them for doing nothing extra of their own volition.

I said I'm all in favor of a very progressive tax rate that weighs heavily on the wealthiest system, but once you start wading off into a system where money is technically "transferred," you are asking for problems.

You don't understand a damn thing about economics because you're so mathematically illiterate that you think 0 is special. Look up "affine transformation".

Mulerider: Obama is engaging in systematic wealth ...

2008-10-16T17:40:00.000-04:00

Mulerider: Obama is engaging in systematic wealth redistribution.

Any change in tax codes is wealth distribution, moron; it has nothing to do with whether people are paying 0 or negative taxes. In fact, any change in costs is wealth distribution; inflation is wealth distribution; changes in interest rates are wealth distribution. And the Bush/McCain/Gramm policies have heavily distributed wealth away from the middle class.

"If McCain's comment about "health" of the mother ...

2008-10-16T16:05:00.000-04:00

"If McCain's comment about "health" of the mother was a mistake"

McCain made a major gaffe.

McCain is a major gaffe. People kept saying "let McCain be McCain", and that's what we got -- McCain's actual views about women, thugs at his rallies (proud of them), etc.

I wish more people would wake up to just how profo...

2008-10-16T16:00:00.000-04:00

I wish more people would wake up to just how profoundly undemocratic and unfair these debates have been, in that they have not included all of the presidential candidates who are eligible to win the election.

Every natural-born citizen over 35 is "eligible to win the election", nitwit. If you're so concerned about democracy, work toward proportional representation and IRV, but do it outside of election season. That's my biggest problem with Nader -- he only shows up as a spoiler, and is invisible the rest of the time.

Democrats can thank Sean Hannity and Fox News for ...

2008-10-16T14:51:00.000-04:00

Democrats can thank Sean Hannity and Fox News for handing us this landslide victory.

This debate was similar to the famous 1960 Kennedy...

2008-10-16T14:43:00.000-04:00

This debate was similar to the famous 1960 Kennedy-Nixon debate. I think it was the contrast between a calm, good-looking, young candidate and an old, grumpy, less attractive candidate that swayed people's mind the most. Ask an Obama staffer, McCain won the first 40 minutes of the debate and it was by far his best debate, but even with that being true Obama trounced McCain in post debate opinion polls. Just the way people who listened to the Kennedy-Nixon debate on the radio thought Nixon won overwhelmingly, but people who watched it on TV thought exactly the opposite. It's the way Obama projects on TV that helps him out the most in these forums, he LOOKS like a president, he talked directly into the cameras and never looked flustered even though McCain threw everything but the kitchen sink. That's very important.

Obama kept his cool. McCain seemed like an angry C...

2008-10-16T14:14:00.000-04:00

Obama kept his cool. McCain seemed like an angry Child. Remember when you were a kid and every year in school, there was always one kid that was angry and petty and stomped their feet and said things like, "I can prove it !!" McCain did the exact same thing during the debate. Not Statesman like at ALL...

Forgive the overtly nerdiness of this observation ...

2008-10-16T12:57:00.000-04:00

Forgive the overtly nerdiness of this observation but having watched Harry Potter 4 (or was it 5) recently with my kids and even more of his reptilian ticking on display last night, I'm convinced McCain is indeed:

1. a deatheater

2. Rove, transformed into McCain. I kept looking for the nervous reach for an empty polyjuice bottle...

Mule said:I don't believe someone who already has ...

2008-10-16T12:55:00.000-04:00

Mule said:
I don't believe someone who already has a zero tax liability - i.e. they pay zero federal income taxes - should get the "cut" that you describe.

*palmface*

The set of people with "Zero tax liability" is smaller - much smaller - than the set of people who pay no federal income tax. Payroll taxes are federal taxes. If you are a 1099 worker and and you don't have them taken out, you have to pay them along with your income tax bill. A personal example: when I was a grad student, I had a 1099 internship. At the end of the year I would have had a substantial refund due to my pittance of an earned income and numerous education deductions, but since my income was 1099, I had a huge chunk taken out for SS and Medicare. There was still a refund, but it was on the order of a really nice dinner out instead of two month's rent. A refundable tax credit would have given some of that money back, wheras a deduction or even a non-refundable tax credit wouldn't have (since the majority of my tax was SS and Medicare, not income).

WHO IS JOE THE PLUMBER? - since he's interjected ...

2008-10-16T12:52:00.000-04:00

WHO IS JOE THE PLUMBER? - since he's interjected himself INTO this election apparently under false pretenses, this should be a priority, don't you think?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/02217/845
http://justrumormills.blogspot.com/2008/10/joe-plumber.html

Joe the Plumber, the star of tonight's debate, may have a very interesting connection to John McCain. In fact, Joe the Plumber (Joe Wurzelbacher) of Cincinnati, Ohio may be related to one Robert Wurzelbacher of Cincinnati, Ohio, who happens to be Charles Keating's son-in-law.

Robert Wurzelbacher was implicated in the Keating 5 scandal, and sentenced to 40 months in prison in 1993. Wurzelbacher is also a huge Republican donor.

So, let's find out a bit about Joe Wurzelbacher. First, he seems to own a few companies:

Joseph Wurzelbacher (Joseph Wurzelbacher Cnstr Co)
12172 Stone Mill Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45251-4134

JCC INVESTMENTS INC in the Investors, N.E.C. industry in CINCINNATI, OH. This company currently has approximately 1 to 5 employees and annual sales of Under $500,000.
Location Information Edit
12172 STONE MILL RD
CINCINNATI, OH 45251

Wurzelbacher Painting
12148 Stone Mill Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45251-4134 (Map)

Wurzelbacher Brothers
(513) 385-6666
11260 Colerain Avenue,
Cincinnati, OH 45252
Specialties:
REPAIR OF SEPTIC TANKS
Phone: (513) 385-5264

Ok, so the first three are all on the same road. The last one, a few minutes away.

Already, I'm a bit suspicious of this guy. He claims to be a plumber looking to buy a small business. Yet, he seems to own quite a few already. Are we sure this guy is middle class?

Now, what about Robert Wurzelbacher?

Well, to start with he's from Milford, OH, right outside of Cincinnati. Next, according to Newsmeat, he owns "Cincinnati Dowel & Wood":

WURZELBACHER, ROBERT M
MILFORD, OH 45150
THE CINCINNATI DOWEL & WOOD PRODUCT

And where is this company located?

135 Oak St
Mt Orab, OH 45154

Which is, you guessed it, right outside of Cincinnati, OH. And, this company seems to be in a very similar business. Joe's a plumber, painter, and all-around home repairman.

Robert owns a wood company. Both have the last name Wurzelbacher, live and work in and around Cincinnati, OH.

Do I have proof that the two are related? No. But something sure as hell doesn't add up. At the very least, this guy, who now seems to be a hero on the right, does not seem to be the 'average joe' he claims to be.

And If you haven't yet read the interview with Joe the Plumber, please do. This guy is no undecided voter, he's clearly a McCain guy.

"The Dem nominee leads 55-33% among LVs in CO, FL,...

2008-10-16T12:42:00.000-04:00

"The Dem nominee leads 55-33% among LVs in CO, FL, MI, NH, NM, NV, OH, PA, VA and WI."

I don't know that there's a state on that list that I would have expected Obama to poll 55% or greater (maybe MI) or that I would have expected McCain to poll 33% or lower. That's just stunning.

Nate says Obama didn't do well in the "tenor of th...

2008-10-16T12:38:00.000-04:00

Nate says Obama didn't do well in the "tenor of the campaign" exchange between McCain, but I thought one of Obama's best moments was when he said that Sen. McCain's focus on (obsession of) Bill Ayers said more about Sen. McCain's campaign than it did about Sen. Obama the man.

MR: "Yeah, Mason, I knew that. I was just stirring...

2008-10-16T12:30:00.000-04:00

MR: "Yeah, Mason, I knew that. I was just stirring up some discussion based mostly around the semantics of the issue."

Just stirring up discussion, by misleading people.... Let's see, I think that is the definition of a troll.

Why not just admit that you don't know what you are talking about? You were full of BS, and when you were called on it you make up lame excuses.

Call it what you will, that is the government taki...

2008-10-16T12:28:00.000-04:00

Call it what you will, that is the government taking, by force, money from one group of citizens and handing it directly to another group without any pre-conditions or anything.

Hey, use those higher taxes on the rich for more public works projects and improve infrastructure.

Use it as an investment and incentive into alternative energy research which should create jobs.

Use it for something else for the greater good.

But that is nothing more than a handout. Plain and simple. No one wins in the long run when we just start writing people checks.

Okay, okay. Let me just make my personal point blu...

2008-10-16T12:23:00.000-04:00

Okay, okay. Let me just make my personal point bluntly.

I don't believe someone who already has a zero tax liability - i.e. they pay zero federal income taxes - should get the "cut" that you describe. In other words, I don't believe in them getting a "refund" or "credit" when they haven't paid any in. I'm all for lowering it for the middle class who DO pay federal income taxes, possibly lowering some of them even to a zero tax liability. And I believe in raising taxes on those make loads of money.

But it is wrong to hand people a check from the government - be it $10, $100, $1000, or whatever - in the name of a tax rebate or refund or whatever you want to call it when those weren't taxes that were being paid to start with.

That's just what I believe.

Long-time lurker, first time commenter...Two thing...

2008-10-16T12:20:00.000-04:00

Long-time lurker, first time commenter...

Two things that scared the daylights out of me:

1. McCain calling the Kennedy assassination "the intervention" on the Kennedy/Goldwater debate.
and
2. The question about the VP picks. I think it could have been worded better and less gloomy than it was.

Mule Rider said... " Yeah, Mason, I knew that. I...

2008-10-16T12:08:00.000-04:00

Mule Rider said...

" Yeah, Mason, I knew that. I was just stirring up some discussion based mostly around the semantics of the issue.

It's amazing how many people in here didn't realize how many taxpayers actually have a zero or negative tax liability."

Then say it and post the link. If you wanted to make the point that there was a RTC it was easy enough to make. Instead you took the troll route.

To all the conservatives out there. Let's engage ...

2008-10-16T12:07:00.000-04:00

To all the conservatives out there. Let's engage in a "redistribution of wealth" discussion.

I understand that your main point is that it's not fair to take money from people who "earn" it and hand it to people who "don't". This is a noble notion but it ignores a very compelling truth: When wealth distribution becomes such that an increasing minority of people control an increasing majority of wealth, the playing field is no longer level, and something has got to be done.

Right now, something like 1% of the people control 20% of the nations wealth. The last time we had as large of a gap between the highest earners and the lowest earners was before the great depression. The only nations where you see those kind of numbers are third world or still developing countries.

If you look at wealth distribution numbers in this country, typically we have prospered the most when the top 1% controlled less than 10% of the nation's wealth.

In the current situation, the middle class is usually the one that gets the raw deal because they pay the greatest portion of their income in taxes. The rich may have a higher marginal tax rate, but that doesn't mean that they don't find ways to lower their taxable income to nothing. (I'm a paralegal in the tax department of a big NYC law firm, I know)

So, yes, when you call something redistribution of wealth, it sounds really bad. Maybe what Obama and some like him are trying to do is to level the playing field. Also, on that subject, the middle class tends to SPEND a greater percentage of their money than the super rich do. So putting more money into their hands in an economy that is driven by CONSUMPTION can only be a good thing.