Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Should Sanford Resign?

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2009-11-16T23:42:15.988-05:00

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And dude... "Ethical Wall." "Chinese Wall" is NOT...

2009-07-13T17:18:25.911-04:00

And dude... "Ethical Wall." "Chinese Wall" is NOT the preferred nomenclature.

From my perspective, the issue is quite simple. R...

2009-07-10T00:18:06.275-04:00

From my perspective, the issue is quite simple. Rightly or wrongly, he has lost a substantial number of people who are willing to support him, place confidence in him, and trust him. A leader needs as many people believing in him or her as possible.

As for resignation, http://www.tinyurl.com/n3vlg3

I think it's relevant because he's a hypocrite. Wh...

2009-07-05T04:23:05.389-04:00

I think it's relevant because he's a hypocrite. Why should a politician be able to chest pound regarding the sanctity of marriage on one hand, and talk about how gay marriage is terrible, and then have no respect for his marriage on the other?

I will happily not care about the affairs of politicians in most cases, but when they use moral superiority to try and take away the rights of some, their moral failings are relevant.

No "Chinese walls" for hypocrites.

If people want him to resign not for the affair bu...

2009-07-01T18:22:07.016-04:00

If people want him to resign not for the affair but rather the more unusual disappearance (which is really more an issue of incompetence than ethics), these numbers aren't that surprising.

I think about all the Gov can do at this point is ...

2009-07-01T12:59:05.291-04:00

I think about all the Gov can do at this point is get down on his knees with his spiritual adviser by his side and pray to the Lord Jesus Christ that his cheatin', lyin' self be spared from the fiery flames of eternal hellfire damnation. The same goes for his "soulmate", that shameless South American hussy!

He shouldn't resign because of ethics. He should ...

2009-07-01T11:08:06.626-04:00

He shouldn't resign because of ethics. He should resign because of bad management. He put the priority of Argentina above the priorities of the public and his family, leaving everyone in confusion for a considerable amount of time. There are many right ways to get your ducks in a row and take a week long vacation, and he choose the absolutely wrong way. That makes him a liability and he should resign.

I live in Charleston, SC. From the posting, I'm gu...

2009-07-01T09:34:35.942-04:00

I live in Charleston, SC. From the posting, I'm guessing the author's closest contact with the state is watching Stephen Colbert.

When Bush was in office many of my more short-sighted fellow liberals called for the president to be impeached, which would have left us with (shudder) President Cheney. That's called unintended consequences. And there are some similarly huge unintended consequences of Sanford resigning that make me think it is nearly impossible, even if he wanted to.

The situation here in SC, or at least here in the Low Country, has nothing to do with marital morality, or even dereliction of duty. We're used to politicians having sordid private lives most South Carolinians find morally suspect. (I'm looking at you, LG.) Here in the Palmetto State, and in most GOP strongholds around the country, I suspect, we came to terms with a pol's private behavior not matching his public preaching years ago. (cf the Donatist controversy in the Catholic church, which boils down to the moral authority lies in the office, not the officer) As for being incompetent, well, Sanford's shipped sailed on that one years ago.

As for the polls, down here calling someone "honest", "disagreeable" or "forthright" is a serious insult. So disregard the polls completely. If a pollster calls up and asks, "Should that immoral man resign?" (Which is how the question is heard, no amount of rephrasing will change it.) South Carolinians know that the right answer is, "Yes" and dutifully give that answer.

After 350 years of hurricanes, slavery, malaria, pirates, Sherman, rickets, duelling, yellow fever, intense poverty, racial anxiety, boll weevils, moral upheavals and the Late Unpleasantness of the 1860's... well, South Carolinians may have become a bit... wistful on matters of morality and history, but have become an intensely practical people when it comes to politics. We know Sanford is incompetent, he always has been. Not out of avarice or power hunger, but sheer eccentricity. You see, the SC GOP (the only party that really counts here) is deeply divided between several factions. By having a total flake as governor, all the factions were able to maintain a careful balance of power, while still seeming fairly unified. One faction was allowed to place a powerless eccentric in the Gov's office, while the second most powerful faction got to elect the Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer. (They run seperately here, rather than on the same ticket, for just such an occasion.) The more often the Gov was mysteriously absent, the more easily all factions could share power among themselves and, most importantly here in what is arguably America's most Southern state, keep things civil and polite. (Is this sounding at all similar to the dynamics of the national GOP?)

Sanford will not be allowed to resign, because if he does, then Bauer becomes governor. That breaks the deal and makes him an incumbent, and very difficult to defeat in next year's primary. Bauer has a private life that most SC folks would find much more immoral than Sanford's, so most of the GOP feels that though he will be nominated (thus upsetting the careful balance of power in the GOP), he will not win in the fall. Now, Bauer has made some noises about refusing the job of Gov to placate the other factions if Sanford resigns. This would allow the GOP to handpick a new puppet for their little power sharing deal, but it's very possible that Bauer will swear he won't accept the governorship, but then reluctantly relent when it's pointed out that it is his legal duty to do so.

This whole situation has been threatening to upset the delicate balance of power within the SC GOP. My hunch is the party elite would rather maintain the status quo of their carefully crafted, albeit highly flawed, gentlemen's agreement rather than allow matters to become... unpleasant. That, after all, is the South Carolina way.

Whether Mark Sanford resigns depends a lot more on...

2009-06-30T22:41:59.693-04:00

Whether Mark Sanford resigns depends a lot more on Republican Party politics here in SC than on national public opinion polls. Mark doesn't like the Republican leadership in the Legislature, and they don't like him, and that's been going on for years. Mark also doesn't like the Lieutenant Governor, Andre "Party Boy" Bauer, who'd like to run for Governor in 2010 and to whom incumbency would be as great advantage.

Basically, Mark didn't have a lot of Republican friends in South Carolina before he confessed, so the political situation is unchanged. He might as well continue to live in public housing unless the Legislature can impeach and convict him, and I'm not confident they cam.

There doesn't have to be any contradiction between...

2009-06-30T17:47:49.290-04:00

There doesn't have to be any contradiction between a cynical belief on the part of the polled sample that Sanford is no more unethical than the typical (sleazy) politician, and the belief that what he did in this case demonstrates that he is also too crazy/erratic/distracted by personal life/thinking with his little brain/unreliable/irresponsible or however one might want to characterize what he did in relation to his job as Governor, to be allowed to continue to be Governor. So what is the point of this article? Why should he not resign for having gone crazy/irresponsible just because what he went crazy over was a personal affair that should not by itself be grounds for his resigation?

I agree with almost everything you are saying. I ...

2009-06-30T17:27:27.919-04:00

I agree with almost everything you are saying. I would go back to the old school rule that personal failings are left alone so long as they aren't hypocritical. If you're a closeted homosexual and you are vocally opposed to GLBT rights or if you ran on a platform of family values and you run around behind your spouse's back, then I think you should be exposed and held accountable. Otherwise, what business is it of ours?

Instead of posting the long articles about "public...

2009-06-30T17:01:05.249-04:00

Instead of posting the long articles about "public" and "private" behaviors, and "ethical" and "moral" issues, people should just write out "the usual cliches", because we know how it goes.

I don't exactly see where the hard and fast rule between "public" and "private" is. What other sins are "private" and shouldn't be an issue? If dishonesty to a marital partner is private, is dishonesty to a business partner, or dishonesty to the IRS also private? What if a politician had been academically dishonest in college? If sexual conduct is a private matter, is sexual harassment a private matter? If a politician has, in his personal life, done or said things against minorities, the disabled, or any other group, is that just a matter of "private behavior" that doesn't effect the politicians ability to govern?

And of course, there is differences between sexual harassment and infidelity. Anyone with enough time can explain to me why a history of sexual harassment is a public matter and infidelity is not. But I think that trying to draw a clear and easy distinction between "public" and "private" is a silly thing to do.

"Is it really, for instance, not a matter of publi...

2009-06-30T16:42:48.935-04:00

"Is it really, for instance, not a matter of public concern that millions of our teachers, police, judges, scout leaders, and fellow citizens routinely access and view extreme pornography on the internet?"

Not at all.

Am I the only one who finds the notion of a "publi...

2009-06-30T15:15:59.122-04:00

Am I the only one who finds the notion of a "public" "private" wall dumb. For one thing, its mind-numbingly banal - the kind of falsely profound thing that college freshman like to say. Of course there is some private - public divide. That is the essence of classic liberalism. But the idea that public disappoval for adultery, prostitution, cadish behavior, immoderate greed, and so forth should be entirely eradicated is distressing. Public shame is a key feature in upholding the moral fabric of society. If there are no public costs to immoral behavior, than the social fabric will be seriously weakened. Personally, I am very much one of those who feel than Sanford is not much worse than you average DC pol, but that he should resign. Why? Not for the good of our politics, but for the moral health of our society. Jerks like Sanford should pay a price. Political leadership is a privilege, and it should be reserved for those who deserve our respect.

More broadly, do we really think there is no link between our aggregate "private" behaviors and the health of our society. Is it really, for instance, not a matter of public concern that millions of our teachers, police, judges, scout leaders, and fellow citizens routinely access and view extreme pornography on the internet? Can we possibly be that naive about the effects of such private behavior? Do not divorce rates of 40-50% carry heavy social costs?

Sanford is a hypocrite. But his hypocrisy can be either used to undermine his career, or to undermine the morality that he supposedly espoused. It's a zero sum game, and I prefer to throw him under the bus than to signal yet again that marital fidelity is for rubes.

PK- Good monkey. Very good, monkey. Love, Matt ...

2009-06-30T15:10:56.220-04:00

PK-

Good monkey. Very good, monkey.

Love,
Matt Drudge

MINNESOTA SUPREMES RULE FOR FRANKEN 5-0 http://ww...

2009-06-30T14:37:30.874-04:00

MINNESOTA SUPREMES RULE FOR FRANKEN 5-0

http://www.mncourts.gov/opinions/sc/current/OPA090697-6030.pdf

(Pragmatus,we worried needlessly.)

Scott… Umm—how you figure Palin as ethical? The...

2009-06-30T14:31:47.232-04:00

Scott…

Umm—how you figure Palin as ethical? The finagling to get her ex-brother in law fired? Her willingness to say anything on the campaign trail (“Obama pals around with terrorists”)? Her self-righteousness about opposing the “Bridge to Nowhere” coupled with her dead silence when it was pointed out she kept the money for the bridge anyway? The spending spree she engaged in with GOP campaign funds to buy clothes for herself and family, including silk undies for her hubby?

If all these pass your smell test, you have a very odd conception of ethics.

South Carolina is not going to go blue regardless ...

2009-06-30T14:23:33.918-04:00

South Carolina is not going to go blue regardless of what happens to Sanford, so whether he stays or goes will have minimal impact on politics in the state. However in terms of national damage and disgrace to the GOP, I say keep the dork in office.

I don't agree with erecting a "Chinese Wall" betwe...

2009-06-30T13:50:03.886-04:00

I don't agree with erecting a "Chinese Wall" between politicians' public and private lives. The Governor of SC is supposed to be one of the best and brightest of that state. Not only did his conduct damage his family; it reflected poorly on the people of the state that elected him.

Is it too much to expect for our leaders to be moral, ethical people? Sleazes like Sanford, Nixon and Clinton make people believe all politicians are lying scum. This isn't fair to the ones on both sides who are honest and ethical people (like Obama and Palin seem to be).

...except South Carolinians have been calling for ...

2009-06-30T13:41:11.070-04:00

...except South Carolinians have been calling for his resignation for years.

He's been consistently rated one of the worst governor's in the country, and has drastically hurt the state of South Carolina.

If it's a public-interest story that brings him down, fine, because the REST of the reasons for his resignation have been around for quite some time.

The Obama Malocchio http://tinyurl.com/ncpp5k ...

2009-06-30T13:36:05.817-04:00

The Obama Malocchio

http://tinyurl.com/ncpp5k

Why does he only give it to conservatives while bro hugging Dictators an bowing to despot Kings?

Slow news day . . . . and most of y'all bore me!

petekent01 (on twitter)

I would happily let Sanford twist in the proverbia...

2009-06-30T13:34:46.309-04:00

I would happily let Sanford twist in the proverbial wind of his own proverbs, however now id the perfect time to appoint Elliot Spitzer as Special Prosecutor to investigate all the national and international crimes that came like tsunamis during the Bush Years.

In Spitzer's case it did not affect how he did the job, only that he like Sanford padded the expense account and if all the pols guilty of that in the slightest resigned the government would stop.

(and before the Randists jump in ) if all those with expense accounts that never padded them (govt and otherwise)were in one room it could still be a very small room.

I'd also love to have private behavior not be part...

2009-06-30T13:25:29.561-04:00

I'd also love to have private behavior not be part of the political equation. But that's not going to happen as long as a major plank of one party's platform is, essentially, a promise to impose the private morality of social conservatives on everybody else.

Until that day, any pol who runs on morality should resign over private morality.

Did you consider that some of those polled may hav...

2009-06-30T13:16:05.101-04:00

Did you consider that some of those polled may have interpreted the question as a comparison between Sanford and other politicians involved in scandals (rather than other pols in general)? That was my first thought when I saw the question and chart.

I'll ask it again.....Did Sanford fly to Argentina...

2009-06-30T13:14:11.633-04:00

I'll ask it again.....Did Sanford fly to Argentina first-class? If he did the hits home more than anything else, and would force resignation.