Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Why Was AIG's Stock Up 66% Today?

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2009-10-10T04:57:32.838-04:00

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My thoughts, when I hear stories like AIG bonuses ...

2009-03-18T10:01:00.000-04:00

My thoughts, when I hear stories like AIG bonuses and Sir Fred Goodwin's pension from RBS, are less about trying to get back the money foolishly promised to these people but rather about identifying and preventing the next incident of this kind.

Who else in the financial world is sitting on these kinds of earn-piles-of-money-even-if-you-fail contracts? How can we change these before they have to pay out? What can we do to get the shareholders to rise up, engage and say "No more"?

Surely there is no benefit to a business to offer inducements that have no clawback provision in the case of failure?

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2009-03-17T22:44:00.000-04:00

It has been going up for technical reasons causing...

2009-03-17T21:28:00.000-04:00

It has been going up for technical reasons causing a short squeeze. Rumors have come out that the government is going to ask for delivery of its stock certificates, they won't be held by any outside custodian. This would prevent them from being borrowed by short-sellers. Since that is 80% of the outstanding it's going to be next to impossible for most shorts to hold onto their short position. So there has been massive covering.

Juris said...Tar and feather who? The Brits who re...

2009-03-17T19:53:00.000-04:00

Juris said...
Tar and feather who? The Brits who received many of those bonuses, some of whom no longer work for AIG?

Agreed.

From CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/17/politics/100days/economy/main4871826.shtml):

Troubled insurance giant American International Group paid bonuses of $1 million or more to 73 employees, including 11 who no longer work for the company, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said Tuesday. [emphasis added]

I am one of those people that just bought AIG and ...

2009-03-17T18:56:00.000-04:00

I am one of those people that just bought AIG and is going buy CITI, once people lock in some gains of course it is clear, (to me at least) now that if nationalization were to happen, it would have happened already so where is the risk if they can;t go bankrupt they can only go up in the long term

Stocks go up and down. No reason at all many times...

2009-03-17T16:17:00.000-04:00

Stocks go up and down. No reason at all many times. Crowd behavior that can't be accurately predicted. If it could, stock markets couldn't function.

Tar and feather who? The Brits who received many ...

2009-03-17T16:10:00.000-04:00

Tar and feather who? The Brits who received many of those bonuses, some of whom no longer work for AIG?

I feel it should be pointed out that $165 million ...

2009-03-17T16:00:00.000-04:00

I feel it should be pointed out that $165 million is to $170 Billion as 16.5 cents is to $170 dollars.

That having been said. Tar and feather those f&@#$*s and run 'em out of town on a rail. It's the principle that matters.

The Two BumsThe bum on the rods is hunted down as ...

2009-03-17T14:50:00.000-04:00

The Two Bums

The bum on the rods is hunted down as an enemy of mankind
The other is driven around to his club, is feted, wined and dined

And they who curse the bum on the rods as the essence of all that's bad
Will greet the other with a willing smile and extend a hand so glad

The bum on the rods is a social flea who gets an occasional bite
The bum on the plush is a social leech, bloodsucking day and night

The bum on the rods is a load so light that his weight we scarcely feel
But it takes the labor of dozens of folks to furnish the other a meal

As long as we sanction the bum on the plush the other will always be there
But rid ourselves of the bum on the plush and the other will disappear

Then make an intelligent organized kick get rid of the weights that crush
Don't worry about the bum on the rods get rid of the bum on the plush

Words by Frying Pan Jack,

dedicated to AIG

To celebrate St. Patrick's day I present to you al...

2009-03-17T14:45:00.000-04:00

To celebrate St. Patrick's day I present to you all the song written by the town where Obama's bloodlines originate from in Ireland.

Enjoy.

on the rest of Planet Earth not inhabited by AIG o...

2009-03-17T14:20:00.000-04:00

on the rest of Planet Earth not inhabited by AIG or, apparently, The Atlantic Monthly, if a company loses ninety-nine billion dollars in a single year, no one gets a fucking bonus

Good point - I've never worked for a company where bonuses were given in unprofitable quarters / years.

way = whysorry guys...:P

2009-03-17T14:07:00.000-04:00

way = why

sorry guys...
:P

Bonus Quote of the Day"Follow the Japanese model.....

2009-03-17T14:05:00.000-04:00

Bonus Quote of the Day
"Follow the Japanese model... resign, or go commit suicide."

-- Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA), quoted by the Washington Post, on AIG executives who took bonuses despite a massive government bailout.

An aide later explained the senator does not actually want executives to kill themselves.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2009/03/17/bonus_quote_of_the_day.html

just...wow.
A repubblican saying this...is this way Petey& co. are disappeared today ????
...who knows...

Barney Frank mentioned last night that the first b...

2009-03-17T13:47:00.000-04:00

Barney Frank mentioned last night that the first bailout of AIG came directly from the Federal Reserve, and came with no conditions attached. Ditto any bailout money from the the first $350 billion of the $700 billion Congressionally-approved bailout. The funds in the second half of the Congressionally-approved bsilout do have conditions attached. Thus, any request AIG makes for subsequent funding may get the slow-boat-to-China treatment by the US Government. This could be incentive for a reversal of these bonus payments by AIG.

The whole episode also demands that Pres. Obama should start rolling out the re-regulation of the financial sector in short order. The reaction to the AIG bonuses gives the president an opening for expedited action on regulating the banks, insurance companies and Wall Street.

Looks like I misrepresented the situation regardin...

2009-03-17T13:44:00.000-04:00

Looks like I misrepresented the situation regarding legislation aimed at clawing back the AIG bonuses.

Instead of the single bill I mentioned, there are actually 5 currently sponsored bills in the House that use various methods of reverting the bonus money back to the people who paid for it..

Through teary eyes, I ask.. "Won't someone please think of the Constitution?"

In regards to the claim:"How about Obama billing o...

2009-03-17T13:40:00.000-04:00

In regards to the claim:
"How about Obama billing our wounded war veterans for their own medical care? [...]

Gitmo detainees aren't even billed for their own medical care. Pretty incredible isn't it?"

No, not really. You'll note that this is not about injuries sustained DURING war.

It's about injuries sustained as civilians long after leaving the military, saying "If you can afford private insurance and medical care and get hurt doing something we didn't sponsor, why should we pay for you and not everyone else?"

Unless "Reagan Revolution" is advocating universal health care, it seems quite fair to ask people to pay for their own medical expenses when they can.

But, surprise, surprise, Drudge etc. have spun that so hard it became "People fighting in Iraq combat will have to pay if they get hurt fighting the good fight!", totally ignoring the facts of the applicability of government vs. private health care and current policies on the matter.

I read from Sir Nate here and Sir Sean below.Hope ...

2009-03-17T13:32:00.000-04:00

I read from Sir Nate here and Sir Sean below.
Hope Obama can succeeds in this attempt.
All in all...He can...

btw a little O.T.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannyn-moore/karl-rove-sarah-palin-tim_b_175557.html

...Amazingly...scaring.
bye.

:)

@ Reagan RevolutionI know you posted this like 20 ...

2009-03-17T13:30:00.000-04:00

@ Reagan Revolution

I know you posted this like 20 posts back and that you're a troll, but I just have to say it. How exactly would you like the Gitmo detainees pay for their medical treatment? Besides, I'm pretty sure it is illegal (or at least unethical) to torture someone and then make them pay you to fix them. And even when they receive medical help for conditions unrelated to their stay in Gitmo, you're basically asking the prisoners to pay to stay prisoners. Why not ask death row inmates to raise the million dollars it takes to execute them?

JC - not a tax reason...Mostly, it's so they can h...

2009-03-17T13:22:00.000-04:00

JC - not a tax reason...

Mostly, it's so they can hide the actual compensation from shareholders.

"Oh, his salary is only $100K." But his bonuses are $2.5M...

The laws have changed to make it somewhat more difficult to hide the total compensation like that, but it's part of the reason they split out bonuses and salary. The other part, is so that they CAN refuse to pay those bonuses! Salaries have greater legal protection than bonuses.

Contractual obligation is total BS.

http://innovation.cq.com/liveonline/51/landingIs N...

2009-03-17T13:15:00.000-04:00

http://innovation.cq.com/liveonline/51/landing

Is Nate going there?

How can they call it a 'bonus' if it's contractual...

2009-03-17T13:04:00.000-04:00

How can they call it a 'bonus' if it's contractually obligated? That sounds like 'salary' to me...

Is there some tax-related reason why they'd call it one thing and not another?

It's just short covering because of the rumor that...

2009-03-17T12:25:00.000-04:00

It's just short covering because of the rumor that the gov will demand stock certificates for all its stock, when you have the certificates the stock can't be lent to shorts, thus, the squeeze.

Nate's argument was that investors like AIG more b...

2009-03-17T12:01:00.000-04:00

Nate's argument was that investors like AIG more because they believe that the government will find a way to force AIG to break contractual obligations to pay bonuses, which is something investors expect to be good for AIG's business.

However, isn't the exact opposite at least as plausible, if not more so?

Investors believe the government WON'T be able to force the elimination of bonuses, and investors like such limits on the degree to which the government can intervene in business operations of those receiving bailouts.

These guys getting bonuses should just be fired. W...

2009-03-17T11:41:00.000-04:00

These guys getting bonuses should just be fired. We don't need them to unwind the messes - they're too emotionally attached to them. And for those worried that they'll take advantage from the other side, first, great, if they can get this garbage off the AIG balance sheet, more power to them. But, second, let the SEC bar them from the entire industry.

I think yanking their bonuses and barring them from the industry is the best way to send the message to these cowboys that this doesn't pay. Take away their means to earn, and others should be suitably warned.