Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Blago Impeached; Tide Turning (Again) on Burris?

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2009-10-09T08:11:16.198-04:00

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2009-03-28T05:02:00.000-04:00

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2009-01-16T04:18:00.000-05:00

David said...If the Senate had someone with a back...

2009-01-11T13:57:00.000-05:00

David said...
If the Senate had someone with a backbone in charge, that is.

It makes me sad to see Democrats become just as big a bunch of hypocrites as the Republicans. Democrats have been flogging Reid for years for not having a spine. Then when he gets a spine and stands firm on not seating Burris, Democrats are flogging him for that. Reid can't win for losing, can he.

jerry25 said...Unfortunately, Reid is making this ...

2009-01-11T13:55:00.000-05:00

jerry25 said...
Unfortunately, Reid is making this more difficult with the Burris case. By demanding a full Senate vote on Burris, the same would be expected for Franken. I doubt any Republicans would vote to seat Franken provisionally.

It wouldn't matter if zero Republicans voted to seat Franken. There are only 42 of them. What they would do would be to filibuster the vote.

I'm so looking forward to the first time the Republicans threaten a filibuster. I'm thinking that the Democrats will be handing them a phone book and telling them "Have fun". If they don't do that, we are all in a lot of trouble because the Republicans don't care about us or this country, all they will care about is scoring points against Obama.

I sincerely hope that the Democrats hold off appoi...

2009-01-11T13:52:00.000-05:00

I sincerely hope that the Democrats hold off appointing Burris until such time as someone does a thorough investigation into whether he paid for the appointment. I find the fact that Burris' business partner helped Blago's wife get a position on a Board. That was one of Blago's "pay" options for the appointment.

If the Democrats seat Burris and then later find that he "paid" for the appointment, it's going to be a huge problem. A much bigger problem than holding off the appointment until the Democrats are sure than Burris is clean.

The last senator seated provisionally was Mary Lan...

2009-01-10T23:56:00.000-05:00

The last senator seated provisionally was Mary Landrieu in 1996.She was seated by a Senate vote.

@ Opus 132I was hoping that Nate could research th...

2009-01-10T23:37:00.000-05:00

@ Opus 132

I was hoping that Nate could research this question. Specifically is there precedence for Provisional seating, since that it is how Reid seems to think.

At least if this issue would become a big news story, pressure would be placed on Reid to act.

Just what is the Senate mechanism for seating a pr...

2009-01-10T23:23:00.000-05:00

Just what is the Senate mechanism for seating a provisional senator? What is the rule and what are the requirements?

Yes, Nate should have a new topic on seating Al Fr...

2009-01-10T20:06:00.000-05:00

Yes, Nate should have a new topic on seating Al Franken provisionally.

A new R2000 poll from Daily Kos is out. The poll shows MNs favor that Franken be seating provisionally. The MSM are not discussing this subject. Its time that we spread the word and force them to make this an issue.

Unfortunately, Reid is making this more difficult with the Burris case. By demanding a full Senate vote on Burris, the same would be expected for Franken. I doubt any Republicans would vote to seat Franken provisionally.

Coleman Sues Franken for Damages Caused by Winnin...

2009-01-10T15:45:00.000-05:00

Coleman Sues Franken for Damages Caused by Winning

Just when you thought this recount could not possibly get any more absurd

Burris should not be seated until the outcome of t...

2009-01-10T14:03:00.000-05:00

Burris should not be seated until the outcome of the impeachment against Blago. Why? Because only a troublemaker would accept an appointment that carries such a stink of corruption. The Democratic Party will severely regret seating Burris if the Senate chooses to do so.

If the IL senate convicts Blago then the Lt. Governor should assume the job, whereupon he can name the next IL senator. I agree with David on this--the buck stops at the US Senate insofar as who is or is not a member. The IL SC would no doubt refuse to consider any legal challenges, so would Appeals, and so would SCOTUS.

The IL senate has been given very wide latitude in terms of reasons Blago should be removed from office. He does not have to be convicted, or even accused, of any crime. Sufficient grounds exist already, as voiced by an IL house member yesterday--Blago has turned the IL state government into a circus, and a tidy remedy for that malady would be his removal.

This is a MAJOR story that is not being covered.It...

2009-01-10T13:04:00.000-05:00

This is a MAJOR story that is not being covered.

It sure is! And if the Minnesota seat stays vacant for several weeks,the Democrats will remain underrepresented on the Senate committees during a crucial period.

Is this another Reid failure?

Following the law hasn't always been a pretty thin...

2009-01-10T11:56:00.000-05:00

Following the law hasn't always been a pretty thing.

But, the Constitution is the Constitution.

And either we ARE a country of laws again after 8 years, or we are not.

Seat Burris.

@ Opus132I read the story a couple of days ago in ...

2009-01-10T11:55:00.000-05:00

@ Opus132

I read the story a couple of days ago in regards to Eric Holder being approved by the Judiciary committee.
Once Biden resigns, it will be 9-9 D/R on the committee.
They will not be using the 58(59)-41 election results until the 2 remaining contests are resolved. There apparently are behind the scenes discussions about how to handle committee assignments, that we are not privy to.

This is a MAJOR story that is not being covered.

@ jerry25Also, the committee makeup will depend on...

2009-01-10T00:46:00.000-05:00

@ jerry25

Also, the committee makeup will depend on the composition of the Senate. By holding off, the 2008 composition will be used.

Huh? Where did ypu get this idea from?

Man fired from hotel for being gay.Call your Senat...

2009-01-09T23:13:00.000-05:00

Man fired from hotel for being gay.

Call your Senators and Reps to demand that ENDA pass if you care about preventing tragedies like this

David,Had to walk away for a while and missed your...

2009-01-09T19:31:00.000-05:00

David,

Had to walk away for a while and missed your posts. Here's the conflict:

Art. I does give the Senate the right to judge elections and returns, true. Pursuant to that, they've adopted a "recommended form" for a certificate that as a matter of custom, no one has ever violated. However, custom and interpretation don't substitute for the actual rule - and there doesn't seem to be much precedent of someone actually being refused where the gov appoints and the SofS doesn't sign.

Moreover, the 17th Amendment (which was part of the IL SC ruling) gives the absolute appointment power to governors. Having been passed after the rule and the original provision, if the two come into tension the ordinary rule would favor the 17th - just like the 13th amendment abrogates the state sovereign immunity under the 11th amendment when the two come in conflict (and just the opposite when a power of the Congress in the main body - such as to regulate commerce - comes in conflict with the 11th amendment, as his recently hapenned in the Florida pre-paid education case and court cases stripping much of the application of the ADA to state action).

So if the rule creates an impediment on the power of appointment, as applied, it may not be consititutional. I'm not sure that's ever been looked at with specificity.

Also for anyone who thinks the Supremes can't weigh in on this, don't forget the subject matter of Marbury was whether an appointment was required to be delivered and made effective once signed by the President. While that seemed like a matter committed to absolute executive discretion, the Court disagreed and gave us the concept of judicial review of statutes, even though they ultimately rejected the request to deliver the commission.

Just wanted to put these ramblings out there.

new threadtime to walk the dawg...

2009-01-09T18:15:00.000-05:00

new thread

time to walk the dawg...

Back to Mrs B's question about grounds for impeach...

2009-01-09T18:10:00.001-05:00

Back to Mrs B's question about grounds for impeachment and the role of the prosecutorial process...yes, as others have said, they proceed on separate tracks, and as a practical matter, there's a real risk of collision.

What I mean by that is that evidence used to secure an impeachment and conviction by a legislative body --a political remedy to a political problem-- can have the effect of screwing up a criminal prosecution.

For instance, I've got to believe any criminal trial of Blago would have to be held out of state, and for the simple reason that it will be exceedingly difficult to find, from a pool of Illinois residents, a dozen jurors and a few alternates who are both mentally competent to serve on a jury and who haven't formed a pretty solid opinion of Rod's guilt or innocence --especially after the newspaper headlines screaming BLAGOJEVICH CONVICTED hit people's doorsteps after the Illy Senate does the deed in a few weeks' time.

As a practical matter, I reckon it doubtful that the Illinois General Assembly will find it necessary to lay out every conceivable charge against Blago pursuant to his ouster.

A legislative impeachment and conviction is actually akin to a no-confidence vote in the political sense --all that they're doing is trying to fire him (and, as would be the case with the President, deny lifetime benefits granted to former presidents such as a pension, funds to pay a staff and other emoluments).

It's not necessary to impeach and convict on charges that are mated to criminal law. In Blago's case, they're nailing him on, among other things, "abuse of power" --which isn't anything that's against the law per se.

As it is, they'd sack his dumb ass for farting out loud in the House chamber --and there wouldn't be anything in the law or the state constitution to stop them.

Oh, and...
... completely off topic but I just clicked on the link on the left "how much is a Bush speech worth?" and saw an advert for a 20mm brass female bush. What exactly is THAT about?

I'm guessing a euphemism for the new millennium --"Bush speech" to convey the same meaning as "drink from the furry cup"

JERRYexcellent comment on the 'provisional' seatin...

2009-01-09T18:10:00.000-05:00

JERRY

excellent comment on the 'provisional' seating of Franken

the entire Burris affair would seem to make seating Franken untenable until all the MN SC legal decisions are resolved...

yikes - anothjer states rights issue involving the Seante

sure seesm slippery slope there

The MN law gives the one week legal challenge period after the cert, so the Seante is biding their time at least until next week...

but they need to resolve BOTH of these duly 'elected' [appointed] seats in a timely manner & equitably even if 'provisionally'

BOTH Franken & Burris should be seated even if with an asterisk

no one seems to be questioning the right if the MN SC to make that determination...

David said... "If the IL SC refuses the new govern...

2009-01-09T18:05:00.000-05:00

David said...

"If the IL SC refuses the new governor the power to appoint someone new, the Senate can simply expel Burris. Unlikely, but it could happen."

YES, that is true. BUT the Senate would have to waive their silly rule & seat Burris before they expel him by a 2/3rds vote.

no way the senate musters enough to expel him with their history of felons & crooks.

BUT that is a legal option none the less, especially IF Burris is later proven to be illegit

still, the 2010 election is just 2 years away, and Burris is not likely to win so why fight this silly tempest & make it a constitutional precedent for making seating a popularity contest ?

hold your nose & let him stay - I mean they allow Cheney in the Senate & Stevens & Craig & Vitter ad nauseum...

I think Burris should now be seated ASAP. We need...

2009-01-09T18:03:00.000-05:00

I think Burris should now be seated ASAP. We need every vote possible in the Senate to pass Obama's Stimulus and TARP and who knows what else that Repugs. will try to prevent.

Also, the committee makeup will depend on the composition of the Senate. By holding off, the 2008 composition will be used.

Finally, if Burris is Seated, then it would become easier to justify Seating Franken before a final MN SC decision.

Weeks ago it was mentioned that Franken could be Seated "provisionally". No one has elaborated on this lately. Why is no one talking about this? Last week it was assumed that Franken would be Seated shortly, even if Coleman were to Sue. What has changed?

Franken and Burris should be seated ASAP so that Senate Committees could then reflect a 59-41 makeup instead of 51-49 at present.

DAVIDyou are dead wrongthe IL SC opinions DO matte...

2009-01-09T17:59:00.000-05:00

DAVID

you are dead wrong

the IL SC opinions DO matter, and trump the senate rules in the state of IL for controlling these matters

same in MN re: Franken. there is a legal process & states rights in both

the US Senate cannot just say Lisa Madigan will be the next Senator from IL - all they can do is REFUSE to allow someone to take the seat, but they cannot control who or when except to stall until 2010 general

the constitution gives the state that power, and the governor [Blago] has the sole power to appoint - which he has done in a timely manner

case closed - Burris IS the junior senator whether the Senate likes it or not

all the Senate can do is refuse him his priveleges - but the IL SC stated that Burris is THE duly appointed legit senator from IL & they have that power alone in the end

unless Roberts & Alito want to try to muck up 'states rights' some more anyway...

Awwww, that's our Mulie! Yelling meaningless obsc...

2009-01-09T17:56:00.000-05:00

Awwww, that's our Mulie! Yelling meaningless obscenities as passers by.

===

I'm not in favor of a "que" system of moderation; we'd lose the back-and-forth commenting that has made some of these comment threads pretty enjoyable. I'd prefer a more active moderator, deleting the more death threat-y and obviously troll-y kind of posts with impunity.

w.v. - ourgon: one of many mispronunciations of the name of our 33rd state.