Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Prop 8 a Toss-Up

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2009-06-20T06:45:56.943-04:00

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2009-02-09T22:22:00.000-05:00

Mule Rider is gay. Duh.ONE OF US.ONE OF US.GOOBLEY...

2008-11-03T19:21:00.000-05:00

Mule Rider is gay. Duh.

ONE OF US.
ONE OF US.
GOOBLEY GOBBLEY
ONE OF US.

Regardless of how you feel about gay marriage, AME...

2008-10-30T17:53:00.000-04:00

Regardless of how you feel about gay marriage, AMENDING A CONSTITUTION for the sole purpose of TAKING RIGHTS AWAY from people goes against everything this country stands for. If Prop 8 passes, the words "with liberty and justice for ALL" will be empty, if not totally void.

In CA, a REVISION of the state's constitution requ...

2008-10-29T21:35:00.000-04:00

In CA, a REVISION of the state's constitution requires a 2/3 vote but a simple majority suffices for an amendment. Thus, perhaps there is a chance the prop 8 amendment will be challenged (if it passes) by applying "strict scrutiny" to the measure.

http://www.advocate.com/print_article_ektid57945.asp

I would think that this would be unconstitutional ...

2008-10-28T23:38:00.000-04:00

I would think that this would be unconstitutional under the 14th amendment as upheld by the Warren court. What I do not know is that if a states constitution runs in conflict with the federal law, does the federal government still hold the ground as the higher authority. Vote no on 8 vote no on hate
Liberty needs to be forever extended not be kept clinging in the hands of an ungenerous host like the last bottle of beer at a bad party

What's truly reprehensible about those Yes on 8 ad...

2008-10-28T10:21:00.000-04:00

What's truly reprehensible about those Yes on 8 ads with the kids is that they did not get the parents permission to use those images in the ad. Search "no on 8 parents" on YouTube to see how those parents feel about that. The trip to the wedding was treated as any other field trip. Parents needed to sign a permission slip. Some parents opted not to send their kids, which is their right. For the record, the kids did not even attend the ceremony. The purpose of the trip was to surprise their teacher by being there when they left the courthouse. The kids were happy to be there and had a great time. Then the Yes on 8 folks made them a symbol for a political campaign fir something the parents are opposed to. That is just vile.

Everyone's quick to scream "Seperation of church a...

2008-10-27T18:27:00.000-04:00

Everyone's quick to scream "Seperation of church and state!", and I wholeheartedly agree. Marriage was not instituted by any civil system, but as a binding contract between man, woman, and God. I don't think the state has the right to define marriage - that's to be done behind church doors.

Some supporters of Yes on 8 might be bigots or homophobes, but for me and my family its a chance to defend the seperation of government from faith. I don't think that gay couples should have any less legal/civil rights than any other couple (procreation standing or not).

My suggestion is the same as some other's in these comment pages: everyone gets a civil union, so that regardless of your sexual preference you are entitled to the same legal and civil rights as any other law abiding citizen. Those who desire to enter into the religious-based union of marriage may do so under the dictates of their faith.

Leave the two (marriage and civil union) seperate and unique, without denying rights from any group.

@Mitewo,Those who think that what our society need...

2008-10-24T19:21:00.000-04:00

@Mitewo,

Those who think that what our society needs is more married families with kids should be attacking the number one cause of adults with kids not being married -- i.e. divorce.

Start working on illegalizing divorce... and when you're done with that... THEN you can worry yourselves about gay marriages, which will be statistically tiny compared to straight divorces.

Personally, I find this idea that families with kids are inherently good for society perplexing, to say the least... considering that most of the real problems facing the world today, including global warming, food shortages, poverty and disease come from overpopulation :/

Anyone else notice what design the Prop 8 graph is...

2008-10-24T01:13:00.000-04:00

Anyone else notice what design the Prop 8 graph is showing?

A friggin' icythus. How perfect.

Very bizarre coincidence. Am I the only one who no...

2008-10-24T00:02:00.000-04:00

Very bizarre coincidence. Am I the only one who noticed that the graph of support, for and against Proposition 8 looks like the Christian fish symbol?

In any event, real Christians should also vote against Proposition 8, as should people of all faiths. The idea of this type of discrimination is disgraceful.

Is it just me, or is it a bad omen that the trendl...

2008-10-23T23:39:00.000-04:00

Is it just me, or is it a bad omen that the trendlines look like a Jesus Fish?

I just voted. +1 Obama+1 No on 8

2008-10-23T23:23:00.000-04:00

I just voted.

+1 Obama
+1 No on 8

that graph is a spoof, right?!

2008-10-23T23:20:00.000-04:00

that graph is a spoof, right?!

Is polling like this weighted for Party ID? Seems ...

2008-10-23T22:10:00.000-04:00

Is polling like this weighted for Party ID? Seems it should be since it is tied to a very political election.

I am a Californian. I am voting No on Prop 8.Is i...

2008-10-23T18:59:00.000-04:00

I am a Californian. I am voting No on Prop 8.

Is it just me or do others have a problem with ballot propositions and other forms of direct democracy related to legislation? I don't have the time to figure out the details and nuance embedded within the extensive legal language of each bill. I don't think other have time either. It is the biggest waste of time and money that exists in our government.

What the hell are elected officials for if not to decide what is best on any given piece of legislation? What the hell are my very high state taxes paying for?

The United States Supreme Court begs to differ wit...

2008-10-23T18:54:00.001-04:00

The United States Supreme Court begs to differ with you, mule rider. They've been saying marriage is a civil right for nigh on a century now.

Nate, what's the margin needed to pass this? Simple majority, or two-thirds?

"as a faggot myself, i ask those of you who suppor...

2008-10-23T18:54:00.000-04:00

"as a faggot myself, i ask those of you who support equal rights to donate to stop the marriage ban."

I just pledged a thousand to No On 8, and got people on another message board to match me, for a total of two grand. That's in addition to the couple thousand I've already donated to No On 8.

Also, I phone banked for No On 8 last night, and have done In Person Volunteer Recruitment for the No On 8 campaign every single Thursday night since July. I'll be doing it again tonight (in about 4 hours).

And I'm not even a faggot!

If you believe in equal rights, please join me!

If you can donate even just a few dollars, please do so here!

If you live in California and can can shake free just three or four hours for marriage equality, please do! Start by contacting your nearest "No On 8" office. Just click here and call the No On 8 office closest to you.

Thanks, everyone!

Patrick Meighan
Culver City, CA

Re: The "teaching gay marriage in schools" issue.T...

2008-10-23T17:48:00.000-04:00

Re: The "teaching gay marriage in schools" issue.

The California Superintendent of Schools, Jack O'Connell, has come out saying that this is bogus. "Marriage" of any type is simply not in the curriculum, and this certainly wouldn't change that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIL7PUl24hE

Not that I would mind my kids being taught about, you know, reality (as someone above said). But whatever.

Mitewo, if "we value marriage more here", then why...

2008-10-23T17:10:00.000-04:00

Mitewo, if "we value marriage more here", then why do more than 50% of marriages end in divorce?

It would seem to me in a country that supposedly "highly values" marriages, that the decision to enter into such a commitment would be taken very seriously. Such unions would likely not end in divorce **a majority of the time**.

Do you really think the gentials of the participants is a key determinant in how valued or successful a marriage will be?
And if so, why do a majority of marriages -- in which the gentials in question are as you prescribe -- ultimately fail?

If valuing the marriage is the key question, are you in favor of a lengthy interview or test prior to marriage, to determine the extend to which the parties in question really love and value each other?

Perhaps a three-month waiting period before a marriage license will be issued? That extra time to think would certainly cut down on the number of quickie or "shotgun" marriages.

If "high value placed on marriage" is what is trying to be preserved here, shouldn't we instead be enacting legislation to shut down quickie wedding chapels?

What about elopement? Shall we make that illegal? Does not intentionally running off to marry in secret as quickly as possible exhibit some lack of proper marriage valuation? Over the long run, doesn't an excessive number of these sorts of marriages devalue marriage for others, at least as you have defined the term?
((Side note: we should certainly ask Sarah Palin about this -- especially as it is probably not a good example to her children -- particularly, perhaps -- the one who got knocked up.)

All of which to say the long-term society-wide devaluation of marriage argument simply doesn't hold water.
First, it assumes a penis-vagina combo must somehow necessarily be more committed and worthy of union than, say, a vagina-vagina combo. I haven't seen any evidence of that.
Second, it assumes gay marriage devalues marriage in general, which is laughable considering both the things we DO currently allow and the strong evidence (divorce rate) that our society doesn't value marriage anyway -- at least not in practice.

What we need in California is a broadcast spot in ...

2008-10-23T17:04:00.000-04:00

What we need in California is a broadcast spot in which Barack Obama and Arnold Schwarzenegger take turns telling the state's voters that they both oppose discrimination, that they both oppose Proposition 8.

I believe both of them have already said this publically and on camera. The No on 8 folks could make that ad without needing to get either of them into a studio, just using existing footage. Heck, they could probably throw in Boxer and Pelosi too -- I imaging they've both come out against it. And they could probably fibd at least one other prominent rebublican who's agaist it on the grounds that it's a constitutional amendment.

New polling and a trickle of stories from the batt...

2008-10-23T16:45:00.000-04:00

New polling and a trickle of stories from the battleground states suggest that Sen. Barack Obama's coalition includes one unlikely group: white voters with negative views of African-Americans

See Sean's post a few days ago about the "We're voting for th N***er" phenomenon.

Hoo boy, the Republican's have really messed things up over the last 8 years when that happens...

There are tons of people are street corners everyd...

2008-10-23T16:39:00.000-04:00

There are tons of people are street corners everyday waving signs 'Yes for Prop 8' here in Orange County with silly appeals to what children will be taught and protecting families. Fear, the favorite tactic of the right. They even have little kids standing on street corners waving these signs as if they have any clue what it is about. The other day kids no older than 10 were alone on a corner where I stopped at a red light. If they didn't feel people were looking at them enough they started wandering towards cars yelling and waving the signs spasticly. This is a major blvd mind you....what would their irresponsibly corrupting parents say if they got hit by a car while trying to marginalize homosexuals?

What we need in California is a broadcast spot in ...

2008-10-23T16:33:00.000-04:00

What we need in California is a broadcast spot in which Barack Obama and Arnold Schwarzenegger take turns telling the state's voters that they both oppose discrimination, that they both oppose Proposition 8. I worry most about that "Obama/Yes on 8" gimmick. Obama says that he is not ready to support same-sex marriage, but he is on record against Proposition 8.

Don't discriminate,
vote No on 8.

Mule Rider said... Marriage = privilege Not...

2008-10-23T16:30:00.000-04:00

Mule Rider said...

Marriage = privilege

Not a right. Sorry.

I agree with you. So lets ban marriage: civil unions for everyone.

With all this confusion going on between civil marriages (filing at the courthose and the rights it gets you) and religious marriages (a ceremony done to bless a couple who love each other), combined with the fact that some religions will bless homosexual couples and others wont, sooner or later the Supreme Court is going to find that the two are inextricably connected and that thus the use of the word "marriage" in any federal statute is unconstitutional under the separation of CHurch and State. See how the fundamentalists like it when the SCOTUS takes away their marriage license and replaces it with a "license of civil union".

Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Prop 8 a Toss-Up

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徵信社, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 捉姦, 徵信公司, ...

Mule Rider is gay. Duh.ONE OF US.ONE OF US.GOOBLEY...

Regardless of how you feel about gay marriage, AME...

In CA, a REVISION of the state's constitution requ...

I would think that this would be unconstitutional ...

What's truly reprehensible about those Yes on 8 ad...

Everyone's quick to scream "Seperation of church a...

@Mitewo,Those who think that what our society need...

Anyone else notice what design the Prop 8 graph is...

Very bizarre coincidence. Am I the only one who no...

Is it just me, or is it a bad omen that the trendl...

I just voted. +1 Obama+1 No on 8

that graph is a spoof, right?!

Is polling like this weighted for Party ID? Seems ...

I am a Californian. I am voting No on Prop 8.Is i...

The United States Supreme Court begs to differ wit...

"as a faggot myself, i ask those of you who suppor...

Re: The "teaching gay marriage in schools" issue.T...

Mitewo, if "we value marriage more here", then why...

What we need in California is a broadcast spot in ...

New polling and a trickle of stories from the batt...

There are tons of people are street corners everyd...

What we need in California is a broadcast spot in ...

Mule Rider said... Marriage = privilege Not...

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