Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: On Health Care, Bipartisanship without Compromise?...

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2009-10-12T04:00:14.731-04:00

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2009-09-06T03:34:15.378-04:00

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The only reason the U.S. doesn't have Single-Payer...

2009-07-24T02:24:55.562-04:00

The only reason the U.S. doesn't have Single-Payer Health Care is... Link
Call Congress and demand,

SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE FOR ALL NOW!

SEMPER FI!

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2009-07-22T03:43:38.759-04:00

キャッシングインプラントダンボール水　通販幼児教室

2009-07-22T03:30:48.073-04:00

キャッシング
インプラント
ダンボール
水　通販
幼児教室

Yall are so predictable You are against this plan...

2009-07-20T09:39:30.112-04:00

Yall are so predictable

You are against this plan because it hurts unions the most which you liberal longs bend over backwards to support

"The erosion in Obama's overall rating on health care is particularly notable among political independents: While positive in their assessments of his handling of health-care reform at the 100-day mark of his presidency (53 percent approved and 30 percent disapproved), independents now are divided at 44 percent positive and 49 percent negative."

WE NEED HEALTH CARE REFORM. Looney LIberals shutup you are in real danger of destroying any plan from passing.

kathw said... Some of the solutions -- e.g., elimi...

2009-07-20T02:31:18.058-04:00

kathw said...
Some of the solutions -- e.g., eliminating the tax exclusion of health benefits -- seem regressive to me.

Most of the proposals I've seen on this have a 'kick-in' level, where the tax only applies to those people whose plan is above a specific amount. That level varies from plan to plan. I've seen a couple of proposals of $500, but most kick in at a much higher rate ($750 to $1000 per month). Some propose taxing only those amounts above that 'kick-in' rate, some would tax all amounts from the first dollar to the last for all plans above the kick-in level per month.

Personally, I favor a somewhat lower kick-in level ($300 or so per month) with the tax applying only to that amount above the 'kick-in' rate. By making the threshold somewhat lower, if affects more people. With more people affected, it would help put a LOT of pressure on the capitalistic, greedy, insurance companies to hold down rates.

AND, any such legislation absolutely needs to make sure it is somehow indexed (up AND down) so there is not the gradual creep like what happened with the Minimum Alternative Tax.

I don't know what the index should be - maybe some index of wage rates?

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

Tomorrow's (Monday) NYT has an extensive article a...

2009-07-20T01:00:20.558-04:00

Tomorrow's (Monday) NYT has an extensive article about the severe bi-partisan reservations voiced by the National Governors Association about the health care bill.

Apparently, the Governors gave Sebelius an earful today. True to form, Obama would leave states with big obligations and no money to pay for them. But, of course, it was all with the best intentions, to make the budget numbers look acceptable.

I wish Nate was taking bets on health care legislation. This grandiose abomination is d-e-d, dead.

@ kathw, "Some of the solutions -- e.g., eliminat...

2009-07-19T16:26:53.313-04:00

@ kathw,

"Some of the solutions -- e.g., eliminating the tax exclusion of health benefits -- seem regressive to me."

Actually, eliminating that tax exclusion would be progressive.

Making expenditures on any particular good or service tax-deductible lowers the after-tax price from P, the price charged by the vendor, to (1-C)P, where C is the marginal tax rate the buyer pays on income and payroll taxes combined. In dollar terms the price reduction is larger for high-income employees in high marginal tax brackets than for lower-income workers.

Some of the solutions -- e.g., eliminating the tax...

2009-07-19T10:33:27.496-04:00

Some of the solutions -- e.g., eliminating the tax exclusion of health benefits -- seem regressive to me. If that's how we're going to pay for *for-profit* health insurance it seems to me that we're just taxing the lower end of the population and transferring wealth to for-profit corporations. There seems to be a lot of steam over the idea of 'taxing the rich.' That idea has become so anathema in this country that even a fair-minded, progressive taxing of the rich elicits a kind of knee-jerk response about how that's "socialism" (or fill in the blank with some other hot button negative). I'm middle-class and am not opposed to paying more tax myself for a genuine benefit and improvement in healthcare coverage for everyone (and I already pay among the highest tax rates in the country because of my state and city residence). However, I would not be in favor of a tax structure to pay for health care, that ends up being regressive in the way that social security (the payroll) tax is. And it seems to me that eliminating the tax exclusion for healthcare benefits while at the same time making no other provision for a higher tax for the rich is simply a new tax on the poor through working and middle class taxpayers. Why is that okay, but taxing the rich isn't, leaving them, as they have been for the past 25 years, untouchable. I confess to favoring a public option, as well, since I think that for-profit health insurance companies ultimately have no interest in health care. By definition, as for-profit corporations, their first duty is to maximize profit for their shareholders.

Jim said... The tort system for malpractice also n...

2009-07-19T03:21:18.324-04:00

Jim said...
The tort system for malpractice also needs some reform

And/or maybe the regulators need to step up their regulation and actually discipline some people?

See:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-bad-eye-doctor-bd05-jul05,0,4426814.story

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

@the last two I lived in the Netherlands for 12 y...

2009-07-18T21:42:28.823-04:00

@the last two

I lived in the Netherlands for 12 years. They have competitive, regulated insurance (not single payer), and moved from employer-based (a la Germans) to the new system in 2006. The insurance companies must offer a basic basket of benefits for a fixed price. They can now compete by contracting with the doctors (that is, you can only go to doctors covered by your insurer--which really means that you get insurance from somebody who covers your doctor). The compete based on claimed quality of care, provision of things above the basic basket of goods, and general reputation. A year's worth of basic basket cost about $1600 in 2006. Small copayments, but nothing for major medical events. And things such as inpatient mental health care for children are 100% covered.

@npunwani I am less knowledgeable about the Dutch ...

2009-07-18T20:53:21.976-04:00

@npunwani
I am less knowledgeable about the Dutch than others but I understand that they are heavily regulated. I had apparently gotten the Swiss and Dutch mixed as I thought that the Swiss had some Profit and the Dutch all non-profit.

@ Freedem, "It could easily be built as the Swiss...

2009-07-18T19:54:44.649-04:00

@ Freedem,

"It could easily be built as the Swiss or Dutch "Single payer" plans where there was very strict or eliminated profits with none on basic care."

I've studied the Dutch health care system intensely. Definitely not true. Insurers in the Netherlands can be for-profit. Insurers in Switzerland, Germany, and Japan are banned from making profits however.

@Jim The common view of the Tort system as part o...

2009-07-18T19:31:55.969-04:00

@Jim
The common view of the Tort system as part of the problem is just another Insurance Company scam.

Actual awards are much less than the total damages caused as a lot less than a third of actual damages are actually filed, and every big award used a thousand times as much by the insurance company to justify high rates, even when it is reversed on appeal many years later.

I would definitely support a "no Fault" insurance that would provide actual just compensation for every bad outcome, with attention to those who made excessive use of it (either side)but at the moment Torts are the only accountability there is and it obviously needs to be stronger and not weaker.

Hi Madeline, Let me discuss the comparative situa...

2009-07-18T19:14:15.001-04:00

Hi Madeline,

Let me discuss the comparative situation. It's not hard. The United States spends approximately twice as much per capita on health care as the second-most expensive country. Yet on just about every health indicator (longevity, infant mortality, disease-free longevity), we are way down in the league tables. That means that there is room for improvement. Now, if you look at the countries at the top of the league tables (mostly European), you see a variety of health care insurance and provision systems. But each and every one of them has universal access to health care, effective systems for delivering urgent care, compassion for the elderly, and some mechanisms for controlling costs. They vary from government-owned provision of care to single-payer insurance to regulated competition with public safety nets. You will find horror stories and success stories in every one of these countries, but the plural of anecdote is not evidence. The question is how much we are willing to do to get rid of American barriers to high-quality, cost-effective universally-accessible care. Principal among these barriers are the administrative and profit costs of insurers, profits of the drug companies (who cry costs of research but pay more for advertising prescription products than for research), and--yes--doctors (the minority, I believe) who provide care to line their pockets instead of to serve their patients. The tort system for malpractice also needs some reform (e.g., if there are punitive damages, these should go to the system and not the windfall victims).

You make a valid point, my statement was a pretty ...

2009-07-18T19:02:32.950-04:00

You make a valid point, my statement was a pretty broad, sweeping one.

To clarify, I am not implying that insurance companies are off the hook. And I never said that I believe what they say. I am fortunate that right now I don't have any health issues that need addressing, but believe me I hear about it from my best friend. She's self employed, and has a high deductible, high premium for what she says is crappy coverage. I'm trying to figure out why..is it our state that's specifically screwed up and there is limited competition? She's convinced that the Obama is going to do something...as if it's all about him alone doing something.

Back to my original statement, what I am really reacting to is my concern with the existing case studies in other countries, the U.K. for example. I think it was Marky who provided a candid account of his experience with their system. It sounds like it works rather well for the most part, based on his experience. However he did admit that there is the issue with "rationing", and so that was one of my concerns. I wasn't trying to be incendiary or anything. Maybe I shouldn't have said "convince me". I guess that set some people off.

Madeline- The problem some of us are having is wi...

2009-07-18T18:46:18.870-04:00

Madeline-

The problem some of us are having is with your statement "do I really want the government making decisions about my health?"

Why do you believe an outrageous total lie peddled by dishonest insurance companies and their bought-and-paid-for members of Congress?

Anthony & Freedem Whewww...thank you. Some friend...

2009-07-18T18:41:53.326-04:00

Anthony & Freedem

Whewww...thank you. Some friendly posters coming to my aid. I was starting to think everyone was going postal, LOL.

I appreciate the debate today and you are helping me! I'll be checking out some of these links.

@ Madeline July 18, 2009 6:28 PM If you really ar...

2009-07-18T18:36:30.352-04:00

@ Madeline July 18, 2009 6:28 PM
If you really are conflicted on the issue check out my last link.

There are only two sides on this issue in Congress those trying to get actual health for people and an Insurance Lobby that has been gearing up to keep their gravy train sucking the society dry like a tarantula with a lizard.

Eeeeeeeaasssy, Dwayne....I really do think that Ma...

2009-07-18T18:35:14.157-04:00

Eeeeeeeaasssy, Dwayne....I really do think that Madeline is on the legit, and truly wants to see both sides of the issue. Give her the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Incidentially, I just posted at my own blog my own concerns about the Dem health care bill.

The SmackDog Chronicles: When "Good As It Gets" Simply Isn't Good Enough: The Democrats, Health Care, And The Repudiation of Single Payer

As always, my opinions alone.

Anthony

Geez, everyone gets keyboard courage on these thin...

2009-07-18T18:33:13.847-04:00

Geez, everyone gets keyboard courage on these things. Okay Bradford I set myself up for that comment. I am honestly trying to have a good debate and trying to get some perspective here! What's a girl gotta do to just have some regular conversations on here. Dwayne just made the assertion that I am an RNC operative posing as an innocent. Is it required to have a black and white opinion on this matter?

I believe we have to do something about healthcare, and I have really appreciated most of the comments and perspective.

Whoaaa, Dwayne, not sure I really earned that jab,...

2009-07-18T18:28:30.697-04:00

Whoaaa, Dwayne, not sure I really earned that jab, especially when my post said I am looking for input on solutions because I am really struggling with this issue. So maybe I made a mistake on this forum by making, I'll admit, a pretty bold statement about myself. Having said that, for the most part, we've just been debating here...there have been some postings through the thread that have been fairly heated, but I have not been directly linked to those, and never have I thrown about labels or joined in any opinion bashing.

If you have a problem with my interest in getting people's opinions on this forum, then I'm sorry. I guess I thought that's kind of what this was for...I feel like I've experienced a lot of good debate so far, and it has helped me out.

By the way, you seem to be linking me with RNC...pretty random. Not sure what that's all about.
Hope we can get back on track.

Poor Madeline makes a baseless post and then screa...

2009-07-18T18:27:20.237-04:00

Poor Madeline makes a baseless post and then screams at me for posting something as deep as "Convince me"

LOL!

To all those communicating with Rudy- You get an ...

2009-07-18T18:13:22.368-04:00

To all those communicating with Rudy-

You get an "A" for effort and "F" for results.No surprise on the latter when you consider that he calls the present healthcare system in the U.S."the best health system in the world."

Face it.You are dealing with a Neanderthal mind that is totally beyond reason.