Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Field Poll Shows Close Call on Gay Marriage Ban

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2009-10-03T05:05:13.622-04:00

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2009-08-28T03:44:59.377-04:00

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2009-03-12T05:16:00.001-04:00

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2009-03-12T05:16:00.000-04:00

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2009-02-09T22:22:00.001-05:00

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2009-01-17T04:35:00.000-05:00

I think it is unfair to those of the same sex that...

2008-11-05T16:22:00.000-05:00

I think it is unfair to those of the same sex that would like to marry. The government shouldn't have the right to take away peoples privileges to get married, Nor should any other person besides the gov. If thats what they choose to do then the people should have no say in other peoples marriages. So what happens to the people that have already gotten married. we just take that away from them or what???

First off, I cannot imagine an amendment to the co...

2008-11-03T12:23:00.000-05:00

First off, I cannot imagine an amendment to the constitution that creates inequality.

Secondly, why in the world does it only take a simple majority to change the state constitution? Is this true for most states?

If you are interested in what True Christians beli...

2008-11-02T16:26:00.000-05:00

If you are interested in what True Christians believe, please see RavagedFaces.com
and Baytzim.com. Thanks!

Call or email everyone you can to spread the word ...

2008-11-02T15:48:00.000-05:00

Call or email everyone you can to spread the word to vote No on 8!

The last proposition (Prop 22, which was overturned), had a lack of support until the Sunday before the election when pastors instructed their faithful to head to the polls to vote No.

My parents church today did the same and had buses to drive over 10,000 members to the polls.

Proposition 8 is Unfair, Wrong! Vote No on 8 and spread the word.

I REALLY WISH NON-LAWYERS WOULDN"T TRY TO TALK ABO...

2008-10-31T14:38:00.000-04:00

I REALLY WISH NON-LAWYERS WOULDN"T TRY TO TALK ABOUT LEGAL ISSUES.

Here we have a poster talking about the Catholic Charities and adoptions.

The central issue isn't whether one is gay or not. The central issue is whether said charities can be deemed acting as an agent of the state by taking state money. This rule regarding non-discrimination applies to non-gay situations as well.

For example, there are some who still believe that the Bible says the races should be segregated. If they are private companies, there is nothing anyone can do about that. It is only when they take public funding, and thereby making the govt complicit in their discrimination that there is an issue.

This is classi right wing framing. taking a situation in which you either benefit or some else is harmed, and pretending you are the one being harmed or someone else is benefiting. It's a lie.

Any half way honest first year law student who has taken con law could see through your arguments. This is the core problem in this country. Too many idiots taling as if they have expertise in everything. You have the right to speeh and an opinion and even to being an idiot. I just wish some of you would respect reasoned discussion over lying.

It is funny to watch Christians bare false witness (one of thos big sins) in order to stop what they think is another sin. If you are so worried about souls, perhaps you need to start worrying about your own because there is nothing in the bible that says you get to commit a sin by lying like you do in order to stop other "sinners."

It makes me sick how religious wackos go after gay...

2008-10-31T14:05:00.000-04:00

It makes me sick how religious wackos go after gays and isupport John McCain who's been SPREADING AMERICA'S WEALTH to corrupt FLDS polygamists in Colorado City, Arizona who practice tyranny over women and children and receive 25-30 million a year in taxpayer handouts.

Watch the video:

http://www.bankingonheaven.com/

BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

Oh ye hypocrites!

@fliptingI think the initiative process in CA is s...

2008-10-31T11:44:00.000-04:00

@flipting

I think the initiative process in CA is structured to "protect" against that. This would essentially be amending the EPC under the CA clause. I would hope you would be right but I am pretty sure if 8 passes, it requires another constitutional amendment to repeal it.

Everyone who votes yes on Proposition 8 hates gays...

2008-10-31T11:33:00.000-04:00

Everyone who votes yes on Proposition 8 hates gays.

@dk_brownI'm not sure I agree with this. There ha...

2008-10-31T11:15:00.000-04:00

@dk_brown

I'm not sure I agree with this. There have been many cases (at least at the federal level) which pit two different parts of the Constitution against each other.

I would suspect that a case could come up where this new Amendment would be challenged against the CA Equal Protection clause. When two separate laws butt heads, that's a legitimate question of law, which seems like it would allow the CA Sup Ct. to rule as to whether the new Amendment is Constitutional. Maybe I'm mistaken, but that's my two cents.

@GregI'm confused. Why do you and NPR think that ...

2008-10-31T11:05:00.000-04:00

@Greg

I'm confused. Why do you and NPR think that the current state of the law in CA (which would continue if Prop 8 fails) would cause unanticipated consequences?

NPR states...

"Armed with those legal protections, same-sex couples are beginning to challenge policies of religious organizations that exclude them, claiming that a religious group's view that homosexual marriage is a sin cannot be used to violate their right to equal treatment."

I'm not familiar with state Constitutions... but the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution requires a state (i.e. government) player to be implemented. I may be mistaken regarding state level stuff, but it was my impression that you can't bring a case of discrimination against a purely private entity (such as a church). The only way you can bring discrimination charges against a church is if the church has accepted public funds. Otherwise, they can choose to accept or not accept whomever the hell they want. Correct?

And if this is the case, then if a church doesn't want to include gay marriage within its ideology... well then just don't take any government funds.

On the other hand, I don't believe sexual orientation discrimination has been singled out as a specific type of discrimination under Constitutional Law - Level of Scrutiny analysis. It's definitely not Strict Scrutiny (e.g. race). Rather, unless the SCOTUS specifically calls it out at one of the higher two levels in a new case, it's likely to be covered under Rational Basis analysis, which is not a hard test to pass. E.g. If a church taking public funds were to discriminate against a person due to the fact that they are gay, they would just need to show that the discrimination (challenged classification) is rationally related to serving a legitimate state interest. With the current make up of the SCOTUS, I don't think that would be too hard a test to pass.

That doesn't mean the SCOTUS would disallow gay marriage, all I'm saying is that even if an anti-gay marriage discrimination charge against a church were to make it to the SCOTUS, it's definitely probable that the resulting ruling may allow a church to discriminate unless it is decided that sexual orientation discrimination should be viewed as a Strict Scrutiny or Intermediate Scrutiny suspect class.

The problem, voice of the midwest, is that Prop 8 ...

2008-10-31T10:58:00.000-04:00

The problem, voice of the midwest, is that Prop 8 would change California's constitution so that, at least under CA law (which is generally more expressly progressive on civil rights than the Fed constitution), this discrimination could not be thrown out by the courts. The argument would have to be a federal law argument and until the face of the US Supreme Court changes, it is likely too risky a case to bring (risky if one is in favor of gay marriage (or, rather, in favor of equality under the law)).

NRP is about the only media outlet I've seen willi...

2008-10-31T10:49:00.000-04:00

NRP is about the only media outlet I've seen willing to talk about the conflict of legal rights.

Ah but that article shows there is no legitimate conflict. You have a right to your religion, you don't have a right to pretend other's share your religion in a public accommodation or in a state regulated/financed business.

If your religion proscribes you from being married to a same gender person then don't marry one. If you think that only some legally married couples are really married then either don't offer perks for any married couple or hold your nose and do so for all of them.

I mean catholics don't think divorced people that remarry are 'really married' yet they have no problem with adopting kids out to them, or hiring them in secular jobs, or providing spousal benefits. Why the double standard?

"Being framed as the gay marriage "demon" has prob...

2008-10-31T10:30:00.000-04:00

"Being framed as the gay marriage "demon" has probably killed any chances of a Newsom run for Governor."

Why would he want to be Governor of California? He already has the best job in the world.

Prop 8, like a lot of stupid California referenda,...

2008-10-31T10:28:00.000-04:00

Prop 8, like a lot of stupid California referenda, has a 99.9% likelihood of being thrown out by the courts.

Direct democracy must die. It is killing California. 83% of the California budget is tied down by referenda. Not to mention that the schools are forever hurt by Prop 13. The legislature of California needs to grow a set.

I'm surprised at how reluctant opponents of Prop 8...

2008-10-31T09:46:00.000-04:00

I'm surprised at how reluctant opponents of Prop 8 are to acknowledge that it will have sweeping consequences for American law far beyond 'getting government out of people's bedrooms'.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486191&sc=emaf

NRP is about the only media outlet I've seen willing to talk about the conflict of legal rights.

If Prop 8 fails there will be a lot of unanticipated consequences.

Thank you to those who made me think about Prop 8 ...

2008-10-31T09:11:00.000-04:00

Thank you to those who made me think about Prop 8 this morning! As a former Cali girl (NYC mom now LOL) I read the trollls here and went and donated $100 to fight Prop 8. Thanks for raising it this morning all!

GO OBAMA!

WV= pamat= where I'll be election day=in PA going to the mat for obama :)

The "No on 8" campaign hasn't been run very well. ...

2008-10-31T07:00:00.000-04:00

The "No on 8" campaign hasn't been run very well. They've either failed to push back on the lies from the Yes side, or taken too much time to do so.

Being framed as the gay marriage "demon" has probably killed any chances of a Newsom run for Governor.

Yay for gay people. Fight fight fight!

2008-10-31T05:15:00.000-04:00

Yay for gay people. Fight fight fight!