Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: A Perspective on Mazen Asbahi

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2009-10-08T06:44:12.077-04:00

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Hi. I just heard you on NPR and I was quite annoye...

2009-03-17T13:10:00.000-04:00

Hi. I just heard you on NPR and I was quite annoyed by something.

First, you start off defending Jamal Said in an odd way. You say to start with that most chicago Muslims wouldn't consider him a fundementalist. I don't see how muslims get to have the final word on that.

Then you add that it's the biggest mosque in Chicago, the implication being that therefore the form of Islam practiced there must be mild because it's the majority kind. It has not been shown that Muslim majorities are necessarily tolerant and non-fundamentalist either.

After that you add building a park and using solar cells, which has exactly nothing to do with the Imam or the mosque's ideology.

Now I don't know anything about this Mosque or Imam either so I won't attack or defend them, but I know when I'm being lied to with sleight of hand. If you wanted to convince me of how non-fundamentalist he is you should have told me what he thinks the proper punishment is for apostates or adulterous young women. You've implied that the mosque must not be fundamentalist because it's big, Muslims say it's not, and because of parks and solar cells. These are all non-sequiturs.

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2009-03-11T22:27:00.001-04:00

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2009-03-11T22:27:00.000-04:00

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2009-02-15T21:25:00.000-05:00

"So I'm crushed for him as a friend, but I’m furio...

2008-09-06T04:06:00.000-04:00

"So I'm crushed for him as a friend, but I’m furious as a Muslim because what has happened is that Mazen was forced to resign because of a smear campaign that targeted him for the sin of being Muslim: nothing more, nothing less."

That is just such a lie but its been repeated often enough. Nobody forced Asbahi to resign. Rather, he resigned immediately after receiving a single query from the Wall Street Journal about his background. Before that, there wasn't a single thing written about his background (check Google Blog/News searches if you don't believe me) so if there was a "smear campaign", it must have been invisible. The furor over Asbahi erupted AFTER the Journal had already written about him as could be expected.As for being targeted "for the sin of being a Muslim", why is it that not a word was said about his replacement who also happens to be a Muslim naturally?

Sorry, but throughout the affair, there was a legitimate concern about Asbahi who was part of the leadership of many organizations that were tied to the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood. Those organizations would like us to believe that they represent ALL U.S. Muslims so any concern about them automatically means that all U.S. Muslims are being targeted.

You know as much as I feel for the Muslim guy who ...

2008-08-13T15:31:00.000-04:00

You know as much as I feel for the Muslim guy who was jettisoned from the Obama campaign. I can't help but also feel that Obama had no choice. Obama himself had to resign membership from Trinity because of the same 'guilt by association' accusations.

So, he did nothing to the Muslim guy that he himself had not had to endure the same personal sacrifice for the same scurrilous reasons.

Unfortunately, the Muslim faith around the globe is causing conflict in numerous countries. No other faith is setting off conflict and engaging in murder-suicide terrorism like Muslims are GLOBALLY. We have seen these horrific actions in Pakistan, Holland, London, France and the USA.

So, there is significant reason for individuals to be highly suspect of individuals of Muslim faith. World incidents are hard factual evidence to support that as a reasonable response. Moreover, they establish a global PATTERN with one key common variable the Muslim faith.

I do not know if Christiane Amanpours piece titled 'God's Warriors' can be considered propaganda or not. The piece seemed to be very balanced journalistic in terms of identifying the 'moderates vs. extremists' Muslims. What I know is that, I came away with the message that the Muslim faith is imperiling the several continents and countries with western values/morals. That so outrage Muslim fanatics they are willing to kill innocent people for their 'moral' beliefs. Without regard to murder and killing being amoral.

The emphasis on killing to assert moral fundatmentalist values is jarring and frightening. It is the abortion clinic bombing fanatics in the USA on a global stage with steroids!

I came away from that series wanting to ban the Muslim faith as well as the female public garb in all Western countries. I think we are at risk of not taking seriously enough the threat of the religion based on our Bill of Rights. But even Freedom of Speech is curtailed and delineated when the individuals rights do not supercede the group danger i.e. 'yelling fire in a croweded theatre'

I am a minority so to me the thought of imposing this type of religious restraint is pretty radical and shocking to my individual beliefs yet I am ready to support any such legislation as I feel it will halt mass murder of innocents.

The manner in which people are willing to uphold the Muslim faith is disingenuous as best and very frightening and dangerous at worse.. It is terrorizing. Folks who understand that the KKK is a terrorizing group do not willing wear Klan robes in public. I feel that is how responsible moderate members of the Muslim faith should respond to demonstrate their repudiation of the extremism in their faith. The rules and tenets of the Muslim extremists support murder and suicide and should be unacceptable.

In fact, it is the reason we have HATE crime laws in this country. When people attack others based on race, religion or gender..they are seeking to terrorize an ENTIRE GROUP solely based on their race, religion or gender. That makes it more than an individual crime it is a crime against a group who through no individual action are targeted on the basis of being a member of the 'hated' group.

Ergo, I feel that the Muslim faith has demonstrated that it is a faith of HATE and the extremists are too numerous for the moderates to balance.

I support banning Muslim faith in schools, public squares and businesses.

It may be unAmerican but the Muslim faith is dangerous for many and this imposing of Shariah Law in public schools in Dearborn MI..is a terrifying example of that.

Obama took the right course of action.

Should Obama have dumped him before it became a pr...

2008-08-10T16:47:00.000-04:00

Should Obama have dumped him before it became a problem? Yes. A problem would have been inevitable, had he kept this guy. Can you imagine how far the worst people would have gone with this? With terrorism, given the climate Obama's already in, he cannot afford to take any chances. And the fact that there is even less substance to claims that Obama is a terrorist has not shielded him yet. Voters are immune to fact.

This election is about doing the best we can with what we have, not about correcting every false impression the most ignorant among us hold.

First to Peterbilt: Here's a link of Obama speakin...

2008-08-10T01:41:00.000-04:00

First to Peterbilt: Here's a link of Obama speaking about your Martin Luther King, Jr. "arc of the moral universe" comment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K_ntZEPlHI&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/31/23310/2199.

Pretty moving stuff -- and it would be easy to say that, given Obama's acceptance of Mr. Asbahi's resignation, he is supportive of such causes more in words than in gestures. But I think that would be short-sighted.

At the end of the day, there is still fighting to do: in terms of justice for gays, ethnic minorities, immigrants, and as Mr. Jazayerli has so eloquently written, religious minorities (or, at least minority in this country.)

It's going to take fighting both from politicians within the system, and citizens who are not office holders, to bring about justice. There two sides of the same coin and we need both.

We should be both supportive of Obama, who as a dark man with a funny name, has become an unlikely proxy for the Muslim community, just as he has for my Hindu community. But at the same time, we need people like Mr. Jazayerli, calling out Mr. Obama and the rest of the political establishment; forcing the issue when justice is lacking.

I don't think Mr. Jazayerli's comments should be dismissed because it is an election season, just like I don't think we necessarily have to approach Obama's predicament without understanding. Instead, I think we have to understand the forces at play, encourage political activism in the Muslim community, and hope that one day, their community is able to organize like the Jewish community was able to twenty years ago, and the gay and American Indidan community will able to in the next ten years -- where they are a political force, and that their issues are catered to by both political parties as a means to win votes and increase campaign coffers.

Thank you for sharing your friend's email, Nate.Th...

2008-08-09T16:24:00.000-04:00

Thank you for sharing your friend's email, Nate.

The smear on Muslims in this country is despicable. One would never confuse the USA as a nation of compassion.

I am so sorry for your friend and his friend. Being on the receiving end of bigotry is a horrible experience.

It is truly sad that America seems to have traded ...

2008-08-09T13:57:00.000-04:00

It is truly sad that America seems to have traded its past last great prejudice, anti Catholicism for anti Islam.

I just want to point out that I don't think there's anything wrong with having a prejudice against an ideology (such as Catholocism, Islam, Wiccanism, socialism, conservatism, fascism, etc).

What's wrong is having a prejudice against people (Catholics, Muslims, Wiccans, socialists, conservatives, fascists, etc).

In other words, you can be opposed to what someone believes, but that doesn't allow you to infringe on that person's rights.

One can be opposed to Islam, and still treat Muslims with respect, while nevertheless hoping to convert them to your own religion. One can be opposed to Marxism yet still treat Marxists with respect, while hoping they come to recognize the benefits of the open market. One can be opposed to conservatism and still treat conservatives with respect, even while trying to persuade them of the advantages of progressivism.

I would hope this is obvious, yet all too often, we see people crying bigotry in the wrong circumstances (and often demanding apologies).

A person who says all Muslims are stupid is a bigot, and owes an apology. But a person who says all Muslims are misled in their worldview is not a bigot, and owes no one any apology.

I hope that all makes sense.

Skip, how dare you say John McCain is the worst no...

2008-08-09T11:50:00.000-04:00

Skip, how dare you say John McCain is the worst nominee in decades. How soon you forget the sacrificial lamb Bob Dole. His only other employment since running for president has apparently been Viagra and Pepsi commercials. Wouldnt be a bad money maker for McCain if he wasnt a Senator any longer and needed money (which he doesnt, see Cindy).

One of my best friends from law school, married a ...

2008-08-09T11:42:00.000-04:00

One of my best friends from law school, married a Muslim doctor from Dearborn. He is Iraqi in descent, although he was born in the US, and never been to Iraq. He has a great uncle who was a higher up many years ago in Saddam Hussein's military regime. Under the Asbahi rule, her entire extended family, and maybe even me for being a close friend would be prevented from holding political positions.

This whole thing is sad.It may have revealed a sma...

2008-08-09T11:38:00.000-04:00

This whole thing is sad.

It may have revealed a small flaw in the Obama organization. With the shear size it has become, how do you properly vett the volunteers to make certain that you play proper defense up front?

A press release up front that said, "Mazen Asbahi is being appointed to the position. We know his background and that he is involved in such and such a mosque, where such and such a person was an unindicted co-conspirator in such and such a case. Even though he has these tenuous associations, he is the best man for the job because A, B, and C. Despite his limited prior associations, he left that position when he found out X, and within days of finding out. There is no sign he has ever done anything wrong or even questionable."

Release the news before WSJ can. You had to know it was coming. You had to know the press would search. The position itself, while extremely admirable, is high risk. Any life long muslim from the Detroit, Dearborn, area is going to have associations. Being from the area its almost impossible not to.

An acquaintance in Northern Michigan who for a few short weeks attended an ultra fundamentalist Christian Church, when they ran for office were accused of associating with and attending services with X (I forget who X was its a long time ago) an unindicted co-conspirator of Timothy McVeigh in the Oklahoma City Bombing. They tried to explain, but it was too late. They ended up just dropping out of the race.

Maybe Asbahi could have fought it, but its admirable to drop out and not distract, and not put your family and friends through the scrutiny that comes with fighting this sort of slime.

Thanks Nate for demonstrating what being an a good...

2008-08-09T06:27:00.000-04:00

Thanks Nate for demonstrating what being an a good neighbor is all about.
It is truly sad that America seems to have traded its past last great prejudice, anti Catholicism for anti Islam.
Dialogue is the key to solving this issue and I appreciate that we as members of this society can still engage in it and that Nate has graciously offered up this forum for this purpose.

Had it been anybody but Obama then I would agree w...

2008-08-09T05:27:00.000-04:00

Had it been anybody but Obama then I would agree with winning the election first, then sort out the problems.

I think Obama is making a Moral & tactical mistake.

He has the chance here to take the problem face on and make another of his speaches.

He would bring the fact of his not being a Muslim to the forefront of the news, which would be a good thing.

He would apear principled, which would be a good thing.

He would be seen to be defending minorities, which would be a good thing.

Played right support for moderate Muslims should even boost his appeal to Jews. He will gain points as an "honest broker" in peace initiatives, and some might recall that when racism wins the Jews tend to loose rather badly.

This continues to show that despite all statements...

2008-08-09T01:45:00.000-04:00

This continues to show that despite all statements to the contrary, the job of political parties is to win elections not to change the world for the better.

How can a political party, or Obama, change the world if they don't win the election?

Everyone here blaming Obama is either a Republican agent or a moron.

That's is number two on the list of people to re-i...

2008-08-08T23:23:00.000-04:00

That's is number two on the list of people to re-integrate into the Obama administration. The other is Ms Power, the economist. This gotcha stuff is the worst of politics.
Even when it's the bad guys I don't like it. And when the casualty is from baiting on religion, the hypocrisy is intolerable.

I particularly want to agree with this: The world ...

2008-08-08T22:31:00.000-04:00

I particularly want to agree with this:

The world is at war right now, but it’s not a war of Christian vs. Muslim. It’s a war of moderates vs. extremists, and the two groups are battling it out in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. But they’re also battling here in America. This week, the extremists won. But I’ll be damned if I’m going to let them continue to win without a fight.

It's a conflict I became convinced 40 years ago I would see in my lifetime. My Dad always said WWIII would be between the haves and the have nots. I now think the conflict is both.

Great post. Thanks to Dr. Jazayerli and Nate.

As far as Obama's actions and apparent appeasement on several issues. I do think some are compromises he is wlling to make. I also wonder what makes some people think that Obama can bring about some of the change before getting the bully pulpit. Major changes take years, decades and longer, to bring about. Some periods in history have involved a lot of change in a short time and we are certainly set up for the necessity of major changes, quickly.

Obama has stood out for me because of his insistence that he expects us to stay involved after the election. It is long past time for Americans to take a little time away from their favorite outlets (TV, sports, etc) to keep track of what is going on in DC. Obama cosponsored a bill regarding federal programs to be accessible on the internet. He plans to expand it when he is president to make it even easier to find out what legislation is in the mill on whatever interests you. He has made it a policy to get ideas from supporters.

I don't think it is at all risky to think that once in the office, he will be more proactive. That said, you can push some things too fast. The country is ready for gays in the military to be open now. In '93 it was Clinton's debacle over the right thing at the wrong time. Didn't help the '94 mid-terms, unless you were GOP. Even Lincoln was reluctant to abolish slavery because of what had happened in England when it had been forced there by law.

Eventually, the mind and mood of the people changes enough you can challenge the country into setting the bar higher. Depends on how good you are at giving inpirational speeches that are full of good insights and information.

As (almost) always, Rany's right.I say that in alm...

2008-08-08T22:07:00.000-04:00

As (almost) always, Rany's right.

I say that in almost unqualified manner, before I must force myself to admit that I would not be overly pleased with a member of Campus Crusade for Christ as President of my country, which in my college experience was more like Chabad than like Hillel.

Wow...I don't even know what to say. I completely ...

2008-08-08T21:38:00.000-04:00

Wow...I don't even know what to say.
I completely understand the outrage, but I also understand what Obama has to work with. And he can't begin to change anything if he isn't elected. It's beyond sad and infuriating that some groups are unable to partake in the poltiical process without slander.

I live in Naperville too!

I grew up in Bolingbrook!

For the benefit of those of you who are not famili...

2008-08-08T21:10:00.000-04:00

For the benefit of those of you who are not familiar with Rany Jazayerli (and some of whom clearly do not understand the meaning of tolerance), here's a link to an earlier publication by Jazayerli.

This is Rany's "Plea for Tolerance", which he published on ESPN's "Page 2" shortly after the 9/11 attack.

I think you and your MUSLIM buddy have hitched you...

2008-08-08T20:25:00.000-04:00

I think you and your MUSLIM buddy have hitched yourselves to a man with a serious character flaw

What the f-? Replace MUSLIM with JEW. And this kind of shit is acceptable discourse here? Pathetic.

"man of proven courage, JOHN MCCAIN"If by "man of ...

2008-08-08T20:20:00.000-04:00

"man of proven courage, JOHN MCCAIN"

If by "man of proven courage" you mean "worst Republican nominee in decades" then I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

Pro-life? Pro-abortion? Pro-drilling? Anti-drilling? Pro-amnesty? Anti-amnesty?

So is John McCain!

This episode really calls into question whether Ob...

2008-08-08T19:46:00.000-04:00

This episode really calls into question whether Obama stands for anything worth caring about. Just as his FISA vote did. Guess not.

Will still have to vote for him as McCain is worse, but no love lost here.