Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Tim Kaine Reportedly To Head DNC

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2009-10-09T08:28:06.652-04:00

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2009-05-19T02:29:00.000-04:00

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2009-01-16T04:40:00.000-05:00

DCM, I get your point. I don't know how much polic...

2009-01-06T17:13:00.000-05:00

DCM, I get your point. I don't know how much policy matters, though, for someone in this position.

MICHAELI never suggested kicking Tim Kaine to the ...

2009-01-06T01:19:00.000-05:00

MICHAEL

I never suggested kicking Tim Kaine to the curb [or out of the party] as you seem to suggest above.

I am merely against & aghast at the DEMs & Obama choosing to appoint center-RIGHT pols into positions of power & influence

give us the progressive secular humanists - not religious lackeys that feign 'concern' about our interests that they state that morally oppose !!!

Kaine is entitled to his medieval religious belief system - but he does not deserve to be installed in this particular position where POLICY does matter !!!

Well said, brown. I, too, live in Richmond and ha...

2009-01-05T23:35:00.000-05:00

Well said, brown. I, too, live in Richmond and have followed Tim Kaine's career since his early days on the City Council. He is about as centrist as one can imagine and is absolutely brilliant. He may look "blue collar," but I can assure you that he is highly educated, well read and has an expansive world view. He is a policy wonk and a consensus builder, not an idealogue.

Seperate Church and State

2009-01-05T19:13:00.000-05:00

Seperate Church and State

fred and brown, great posts!

2009-01-05T17:18:00.000-05:00

fred and brown, great posts!

People, take a deep breath. I live in Richmond, an...

2009-01-05T16:13:00.000-05:00

People, take a deep breath. I live in Richmond, and I can assure you, Tim Kaine has absolutely no appetite for anti-choice or anti-gay legislation. He might not support same-sex marriage (neither does Obama), but he opposed the same-sex amendment in Virginia a few cycles ago, and he has done exactly nothing as governor to push an anti-abortion agenda. He takes the same stance on abortion that he takes on the death penalty, in that he opposes it personally, but he won't seek to overturn precedent. He's a centrist and a gradualist, just like Obama, and that's one of the reasons they get along so well. Now you might say that you want someone who proudly advocates a liberal agenda, and I sympathize with that perspective, but understand also that the Democrats have turned Virginia completely blue (two governors, two Senators, and now Terry McAuliffe, for God's sake) by co-opting the Republicans on economic and defense issues and neutralizing them on social issues. That's how you win the Upper South and the Midwest, and that's exactly what the Fifty State Strategy is all about.

I disagree. I think we need a DNC Chair that will ...

2009-01-05T15:07:00.000-05:00

I disagree. I think we need a DNC Chair that will unite us by avoiding the divisive issue of religion, leaving God to the Churches and focusing instead on things that matter here on Earth. Build us a party of men not of Gods.

Remember: Party of God in Arabic = Hamas. Those who blend religion and politics in the same pot poison us all.

My Pick for DNC Chair

As DNC chair with a Democratic president, Kaine is...

2009-01-05T14:55:00.000-05:00

As DNC chair with a Democratic president, Kaine is unlikely to have much influence on platform and policy (or talk-show appearances); it will be a more nuts-and-bolts position. And one thing Kaine has been very effective at during his term as governor is getting more Democrats elected. The VA GOP whined endlessly about how he actually went out and campaigned against their candidates, and how could they possibly work with him (never mind that they weren't working with him before that.)

On balance, I would say that Mark Warner was a better governor, but Tim Kaine is a better party-builder. I think it's a really good position for him and for us.

(Plus, this will make two DNC chairs in a row who recognize me, even if they don't really know me!)

Michael,I think BOTH parties should be the parties...

2009-01-05T13:37:00.000-05:00

Michael,

I think BOTH parties should be the parties of secularism. Neither party should pander to religious interests. It is simply put unAmerican to sell out our secular Constitution and system of government to theocrats that will only turn this country in upon itself. The potential for civil discourse in the theatre of ideas is lost completely when either side abandons rational discussions of issues pertinent to government in favor of metaphysical arguments having nothing to do with maintaining a civil society. And the problem is made much worse when BOTH parties have decided to abandon the down-to-earth matters of Government in favor of religious squabbling over the gender of God or what name we're supposed to call it or how many angels can dance on a pin. The GOP has done something Titanically insane by getting in bed with Ralph Reed, and for the DNC to follow suit by elevating Tim Kaine, who is openly theocratic, will jettison this country's political discourse over the edge of the cliff. Stop it, please, and wake up to the fact that God does not attend Party conventions. The list of examples of what happens when you insist on elevating theocrats is endless, and entirely negative.

God does not endorse a specific tax policy-give to Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. God doesn't give a shit about flag burning or school prayer or Equal Marriage or abortion. There is nothing in the Bible suggesting that God endorses English as the official language of the US or any specific immigration policy. Guess what, idiots, Jesus, Mohammad, Moses, Buddha and Krishna aren't going to be showing up in Congress any time soon, and nobody elected any of them President. God isn't on the SCOTUS, either, despite what Scalia thinks of himself.

Michael-I whole-heartedly agree that Israel has th...

2009-01-05T10:00:00.000-05:00

Michael-

I whole-heartedly agree that Israel has the right to defend itself. I also agree that the short-sighted, myopic, insanely uneducated Bush administration would go in and indiscrimately kill civilians if we were attacked with pea-shooters.

That said, the real question is not what is best for Israel or any party in the February elections in Israel, but instead how do we come to a long term solution. Hamas should not be in power, another insane Bush decision for the election, but Hamas was losing power in their base and if true elections were held they would have lost some, maybe most, of their power prior to this. What this attack does is create more suicide bombers, a longer war, and removes the chance that Clinton could finish what he started and worked on until his last minute office - lasting peace.

Sure, youy can fight back, but you might be making the problem worse and causing more Israeli and U.S. civilians to die in the long run.

BTW, your question should never be what would Bush do, whatever he would do - do the opposite.

Brad, the Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006 was a ...

2009-01-05T09:05:00.000-05:00

Brad, the Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006 was a total waste of lives, limbs, property, and even ammunition. Why? Because, quite apart from what a very restrained person would call the insufficiently discriminate targetting by the Israeli Air Force, the declared reasons for it were: (1) Hezbollah had demanded the release of the child-killing terrorist, Samir Kuntar, in exchange for two Israeli soldiers they had just seized, and (2) in order to stop Hezbollah from launching missiles at Israeli towns. The results were that Hezbollah hit Israel with much but not everything it had, has since gained a lot of power and replenished its arms and ammunition and then some, and Israel traded Samir Kuntar for the dead bodies of the soldiers two years later. I grieve for all those who died in that war for no good reason.

So disregarding tactics and even questions of whether the attack on Gaza is necessary, we won't know until later whether there was any point at all in this attack or not. (I'll mention tangentially that if the leftist Israeli newspaper, Ha'Aretz, is accurate in reporting that some 3/4 of the deaths are Hamas fighters, that's pretty good targetting in such a heavily populated area, but that's not the final word on the matter, and if they're using phosphorus, that's horrible.)

But I have to ask you what you think the Bush Administration would have done if Canada or Mexico were ruled by a party that had sent suicide terrorists into American cities, is committed to the conquest or annihilation of the United States, and has lobbed thousands of missiles across the Rio Grande or St. Lawrence River. You know it wouldn't be pretty.

I'm not suggesting that Israel's behavior shouldn't be criticized. I think it should be. But right now, we Americans aren't in a strong position to do that. Once Obama takes office, policies can and should start to change, but don't expect or hope for a sudden vote of confidence in Hamas. As long as the U.S. needs reliable allies in the Middle East, Israel will remain an ally. If we become energy-independent, Israel's importance will decrease, but there's a lot of intelligence sharing and so forth. It simply isn't in the U.S.'s interest for Israel to lose a war, but showing more understanding of Muslims' anger and concerns and pressing Israel to behave more responsibly would be good for the entire world.

Stat"I would rather see an educated, thoughtful ma...

2009-01-05T09:02:00.000-05:00

Stat
"I would rather see an educated, thoughtful man with a lifelong dedication to promoting the education of our kids in something other than professional sports, cheap beer and 70's stadium rock."

I am guessing/hoping you would be just as happy with an educated, thoughtful woman?
Did you mean adult? or person?
Not to be picky, but... well given your commitment to the ideal of equal treatment I think it is worth mentioning, that your comment excluded over 50% of the adult population.

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What Obama’s Kaine-DNC Pick May Mean

2009-01-05T08:32:00.000-05:00

What Obama’s Kaine-DNC Pick May Mean

Nothing like using a good inhumane weapon in a hea...

2009-01-05T08:18:00.000-05:00

Nothing like using a good inhumane weapon in a heavily populated metropolitan area.

"Israel is believed to be using controversial white phosphorus shells to screen its assault on the heavily populated Gaza Strip yesterday. The weapon, used by British and US forces in Iraq, can cause horrific burns but is not illegal if used as a smokescreen. "

Michael-You have no idea what other countries I ha...

2009-01-05T07:55:00.000-05:00

Michael-

You have no idea what other countries I have righteous anger at.

I also believe Israel has the right to defend itself, but the seemingly random over-reaction in both Lebanon and here is well beyond the pale.

Good point, Brad. And I'm very surprised Dean wasn...

2009-01-05T07:37:00.000-05:00

Good point, Brad. And I'm very surprised Dean wasn't offered a cabinet position by Obama.

By the way, I apologize if I'm unjustly casting aspersions; the deaths of noncombattants should always cause everyone to react emotionally. If we don't care, we have lost our humanity.

Brad, is it only Israel you're mad at, or do you p...

2009-01-05T07:34:00.000-05:00

Brad, is it only Israel you're mad at, or do you propose to cut off all aid to every country whose government is doing something you don't like (such as, perhaps, every Arab country, because they're all grievous violators of human rights, lack civil liberties, etc.)? I have to say, the U.S. has been much worse in Iraq than anything Israel is doing in Gaza (check the estimates on Iraqi excess deaths, refugees, and internally displaced people, for example), and with much less, if any, provocation, so the outgoing U.S. government wouldn't have a leg to stand on in slamming Israeli behavior. Not that that's stopping regimes like Russia's, which has committed tremendous crimes in Chechnya, from displaying total hypocrisy.

I do not want Obama to continue GW Bush's destructive blank check policy toward a sometimes self-destructive Israeli government and could support cuts in aid (not a total cutoff) if that's what's necessary to press them to permanently dismantle settlements found illegal by the Israeli Supreme Court and vigorously prosecute extremist settlers who assault Arabs and destroy their olive trees or/and steal their olive harvest, for example.

But there's a word for people who have righteous anger only toward Israel and no other country. Especially those who are so obsessed that they post stuff where it isn't relevant. Not that I'm presuming anything about you, but I've seen such patterns from some other people in the past, and if the shoe fits...

Michael-Great post, but I would add that Dean was ...

2009-01-05T07:33:00.000-05:00

Michael-

Great post, but I would add that Dean was infinitely more experienced than Kaine in both life and politics before taking the job.

Statler:Economics isn't voodoo when it comes to wh...

2009-01-05T07:21:00.000-05:00

Statler:

Economics isn't voodoo when it comes to whether government is increasing the wealth of the top 1% of the population while totally screwing the bottom 20%, which is what Republican administrations have essentially done since at least World War II, and presumably longer (I'd bet since WW I). Democratic administrations, by contrast, while increasing the wealth of the top 1% almost as much as the Republicans, have greatly improved the financial condition of the poor. That's due to taxation and spending policies.

And while I agree with most of your remarks about the evils of entangling religion and government, I don't think it makes any sense to make the Democratic Party the party of secularism above all, rather than the party of economic fairness, above all. I _DO_ want the party to be a strong advocate and protector of civil liberties, but that doesn't mean people who disagree with some of the party planks should be expelled.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with some of Kaine's views and not fully convinced that he's an ideal choice for Chairman of the DNC on that basis, but I do get the politics of the choice, which seem astute and of a piece with other acts of attempted inclusion by Obama - geographic, and faith-based.

I agree with PorridgeGun that Kaine won't have any control over the platforms under which the Democratic Party actually runs, though.

He will have more influence over strategy, I presume, whereupon, the question is, how good a strategist is he. On that question, there seems to be room for doubt, as he wasn't that popular in Virginia, last time Nate posted relevant stats. But then again, so many people thought Howard Dean was a boneheaded pick, and look how that turned out.

Israel, really going after the important people - ...

2009-01-05T07:07:00.000-05:00

Israel, really going after the important people - NOT!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-death-and-life-of-my-father-1225793.html

This invasion is a horrendous over-reaction. Lets pull all aid to Israel, now.

Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Tim Kaine Reportedly To Head DNC

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DCM, I get your point. I don't know how much polic...

MICHAELI never suggested kicking Tim Kaine to the ...

Well said, brown. I, too, live in Richmond and ha...

Seperate Church and State

fred and brown, great posts!

People, take a deep breath. I live in Richmond, an...

I disagree. I think we need a DNC Chair that will ...

As DNC chair with a Democratic president, Kaine is...

Michael,I think BOTH parties should be the parties...

Michael-I whole-heartedly agree that Israel has th...

Brad, the Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006 was a ...

Stat"I would rather see an educated, thoughtful ma...

What Obama’s Kaine-DNC Pick May Mean

Nothing like using a good inhumane weapon in a hea...

Michael-You have no idea what other countries I ha...

Good point, Brad. And I'm very surprised Dean wasn...

Brad, is it only Israel you're mad at, or do you p...

Michael-Great post, but I would add that Dean was ...

Statler:Economics isn't voodoo when it comes to wh...

Israel, really going after the important people - ...

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