Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Yet Another Conegate Thread

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2009-10-08T05:32:57.041-04:00

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2009-09-22T01:58:13.444-04:00

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2009-02-16T23:06:00.000-05:00

THIS IS AN ISSUE BECAUSE MCCAIN PERFORMED SO WELL....

2008-08-20T12:11:00.000-04:00

THIS IS AN ISSUE BECAUSE MCCAIN PERFORMED SO WELL. IF HE HAD MUMBLED AND STUMBLED WITH HIS ANSWERS NO ONE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF HIM HEARING THE ? IN ADVANCE>

Eve, what we have in the Constitution is freedom o...

2008-08-20T10:30:00.000-04:00

Eve, what we have in the Constitution is freedom of religion meaning that you and I and all other Americans can practice their own faith without persecution from the government. You are FREE to worship as you see fit and express your religous ideas. The prohibition against a state sponsored Church is designed to protect those freedoms - ex: if we had a govt sponsored Baptist faith it would infringe on the rights of non-Baptists to worship as they see fit. Unfortunately Americans (and liberals have been the driving in this I have to admit) have interpreted this to mean that we need to pretend religion doesn't exist and what we have today is almost a state sponsored Atheist church. This is one of the reasons that the Democrats lost to GWB twice - Obama's openess about his faith should help. While he does not fall in line with the evangelical voting block, his refusal to stuff faith into a dark closet will help many religous voters see him in a different light than Gore or Kerry.

I like this Conegate thread and hope you don't sto...

2008-08-19T21:53:00.000-04:00

I like this Conegate thread and hope you don't stop. As I watched the forum I immediately thought McCain had the questions beforehand. Sadly, McCain supporters are the type who think winning by cheating shows strength of character.

One reason to come back to it is that McCain has a...

2008-08-19T21:41:00.000-04:00

One reason to come back to it is that McCain has already admitted to cheating (on the wife who stood by him while he was a POW) and has broadcast an outright lie about Obama (concerning whether he wanted media with him when visiting wounded soldiers).

One way to look into it is to compare McCain's answers in the first half to those in the second half. Wasn't the question about what defines "rich" in the second half hour? McCain was totally unprepared for it and gave an answer (5 million dollars per year of income) that shows he is totally out of touch with middle America. I can't believe the Democratic party has not totally hammered McCain for arguing that a MULTI-MILLIONAIRE, a person earning 3 million dollars a year, is "middle class". Ask someone in the Ohio Valley if any of their middle class neighbors make a million a year!

BTW, one thing that has surprised me is that none of the negative Obama ads have used the SNEERING image of McCain, like when reminding us that he voted against the programs he says he supports, since it always reminds me of the elitist dickhead in high school that everyone had to pretend to like because his daddy was an Admiral. I'd definitely have him sneering when he promises a "middle class tax cut" to people making over a million a year.

Liberal Christian,I like your post, but I must dis...

2008-08-19T16:51:00.000-04:00

Liberal Christian,
I like your post, but I must disagree with one. Or maybe I don't understand it. We most certainly do have freedom from religion in this country. We were set up to have freedom from religion.

Scott919You are incorrect. McCain met with the fe...

2008-08-19T16:44:00.000-04:00

Scott919
You are incorrect. McCain met with the feds twice regarding Keating.

The left needs to stop being afraid of offending p...

2008-08-19T15:45:00.000-04:00

The left needs to stop being afraid of offending people. The right certainly isn't. They're willing to make an argument that makes people mad. And they've held onto power for about 30 years because of it. The reason they lost power in 2006, and faced with losing more in 2008 isn't because they offend people. It's because their policy, when implemented, is just awful.

The truth on this is the correct spin. Rick Warren lied about putting McCain in a cone of silence to help make a pro-McCain infomercial. People seem to be seeing through the charade here: so far, if there's been any benefit to McCain because of this swindle, it doesn't seem to have shown up in the polls.

How do we know it was a swindle? Because obviously, the whole integrity of this event depended on McCain not even *being able* to see Obama's portion of the interview. That's WHY Warren lied twice about McCain being in a cone of silence. Everyone would have seen through this event as just a pro-McCain infomercial if they knew in advance that McCain could see Obama's portion of the interview.

Yeah, MR.That was a pretty funny comment from Warr...

2008-08-19T15:35:00.000-04:00

Yeah, MR.

That was a pretty funny comment from Warren, too. What was he going to do if someone launched into a stump speech? Cut off their mike?

Mason,Oh, I agree. I think the better line of "att...

2008-08-19T14:53:00.000-04:00

Mason,

Oh, I agree. I think the better line of "attack" should be nothing about possible "cheating" or improprieties but on the things he said.

Didn't Rick Warren say that he wasn't going to "allow" stump speeches. And McCain stayed right with the standard playbook. They should hammer him on that and not really providing too much insight in what was supposed to be a more revealing forum for both speakers.

But either way, the issue of him being in a "cone of silence" or not is moot.

MR-As you can no doubt tell, I'm damning him with ...

2008-08-19T14:42:00.000-04:00

MR-
As you can no doubt tell, I'm damning him with faint praise.

A more nimble mind, given a little warning, would have come up with something a bit better than the standard stump speech.

I don't retract a single word of what I wrote. The...

2008-08-19T14:13:00.000-04:00

I don't retract a single word of what I wrote. The first thing I think of when I hear the word "Christian" is "liar." There is nothing at all Christ-like in the American evangelical establishment. I think Obama was a fool to have ever appeared at the so-called "church" operated by Rick Warren. Any dummy could have told him he'd be set up.

More broadly, as I look at Obama's general election campaign I see the seeds of a disaster in the making. He ran on "Change" during the primaries, and now he's running around trying to assure the public that there won't be any change. I think this is a terrible strategy.

The public is way out ahead of the leaders right now. The economy is collapsing, but you'd never know it to listen to Obama. He shows every sign of being captured by the pussies of the DLC, the "Afraid-of-Our-Own-Shadow" Democrats.

If Obama doesn't come out swinging pretty soon, and swinging hard, he's going to lose. Which is exactly what the "Christians" want to see, and is exactly what a significant part of the Democratic Party seems to want, too.

"Whether he had some of the questions, as opposed ...

2008-08-19T13:40:00.000-04:00

"Whether he had some of the questions, as opposed to the topic areas (which he and Obama both had), it was easy to surmise what some of the questions would be."

Exactly. The only surprising questions were greatest moral failing and which Supreme Court Justices would you not have appointed. And McCain certainly didn't look prepared for either. On the Court, Ginsburg snowballed into each and every non-conservative Justice (and he struggled to remember Stevens's name), and on moral failings, though he certainly aced his own, he seemed to fish around a little for what he thought America's moral failings might be. Other than that, you know he's going to ask about abortion, faith, education, foreign policy, and all the rest. To the people who think he somehow cheated, I'd ask, which question did he (a) seem to know was coming that (b) he wouldn't have anticipated without listening in on Obama's interview?

Pluckon - bigotry against Christians is still bigo...

2008-08-19T13:17:00.000-04:00

Pluckon - bigotry against Christians is still bigotry. Remember in this country we have freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion.

"Honorable'TM'"? A little snarky for an objective ...

2008-08-19T13:16:00.000-04:00

"Honorable'TM'"? A little snarky for an objective website. Not that you have to be objective, just be open about it.

McCain's resopnse is right out of the Rove/Bush/Ch...

2008-08-19T13:15:00.000-04:00

McCain's resopnse is right out of the Rove/Bush/Chney/Nixon playbook:

"How dare you imply that I might have cheated!"

pluckon,And the first thing I think when I read so...

2008-08-19T12:59:00.000-04:00

pluckon,

And the first thing I think when I read someone make a generalized attack on all Christians by calling them all liars is "unrepentant liar."

I can't speak for all "Christians" but the vast majority (not all, but most) recognize their faults and repent of them and try to be better people. Better than wallowing in your own filth and being proud of it.

Of course the Christians are going to call this a ...

2008-08-19T12:54:00.000-04:00

Of course the Christians are going to call this a "non-issue." Whenever a Christian does the usual thing -- lying, cheating, stealing -- it's a "non-issue."

I was thinking about this yesterday, and asking myself, "What's the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the word, "Christian," and the answer was "liar."

As long as the gratuitous daily idiotic thread is ...

2008-08-19T12:48:00.001-04:00

As long as the gratuitous daily idiotic thread is posted about "cone"-gate, I'll post my same response until it goes away.

Let it go. It's stupid. It's whiny. It's all the above. Get a life if this riles you up.

I like Mason's response, even though he is anti-McCain. McCain may have had the opportunity to cheat, but he said the same things he would have said regardless. Stump speech talking points. No more, no less.

I'm sure if this was a forum hosted by Gavin Newsom on the town square of San Francisco, Obama would look like a natural charm while McCain would stutter and stammer and be way out of his element and uncomfortable. And it wouldn't be affected by any level of "cheating" beforehand.

Scott919 is a troll. Do not feed him. His primar...

2008-08-19T12:48:00.000-04:00

Scott919 is a troll. Do not feed him. His primary intent is obfuscation.

Having said that, I agree this discussion is better suited for a more partisan website, like DailyKos.

If I were Obama, this is where I'd attack McCain.I...

2008-08-19T12:38:00.000-04:00

If I were Obama, this is where I'd attack McCain.

I'd make "Saint McCain" commercials, quoting Hannity and various pundits saying things like "It's not the same that he cheated on his wife, he was a war hero! Sure he illegally tried to pressure the Keating investigators, but he was a war hero! Sure he cheated on his taxes, but he was a war hero! Yes, he tried to get you into a debate on July 1st where the audience was rigged, but he was a war hero! Sure, he regularly violates the law he wrote on campaign finance reform, but he's a war hero! How dare he be attacked for cheating in Saddleback! He's a War Hero!"

Make it so that every time somebody hears McCain and War Hero in the same sentence, they think of all the scummy things he's done and how he tries to hide behind what happened to him 40 years ago to protect himself. Just nail him on his "strength", and don't let up.