Comments on FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: When Memes Collide

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2009-10-08T07:31:35.357-04:00

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2009-09-11T02:12:45.479-04:00

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2009-03-11T22:00:00.000-04:00

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2009-02-14T02:14:00.000-05:00

I yawn at the New Yorker cover. It's what the wor...

2008-07-22T09:08:00.000-04:00

I yawn at the New Yorker cover. It's what the word faux-troversy was made for. And I didn't read anything in this synopsis I thought was unflattering to Obama. On the contrary, it confirms things I already knew, and makes me like him more.

The people who are trying to say his weakness is that he's young & naive? Are you even paying attention? Are you watching?

Here's the other important thing to understand abo...

2008-07-19T15:22:00.000-04:00

Here's the other important thing to understand about the cover. It's certainly provocative. But it's not scary. On the contrary, it takes a scary idea, and makes it nonscary -- literally cartoonish."

Ninety percent of Americans who see that cover will think it says "Obama is a terrorist." No wink-wink, no nudge-nudge.

Take it from me: America at large does not understand or appreciate sarcasm. That illustration hurts Obama, no matter what any out-of-touch fool in New York thinks.

This cover is not an attempt to be "hip" or "cool,...

2008-07-15T19:29:00.000-04:00

This cover is not an attempt to be "hip" or "cool," it is a direct critique of the various right-wing whispering campaigns about Obama.

You apparently have no idea what the word "critique" means. You can't provide an intellectually honest rebuttal to my points.

Anon 1:05 said... "'ambition without ideology i...

2008-07-15T18:49:00.000-04:00

Anon 1:05 said...

"'ambition without ideology is bankrupt'

Really? Is it 1952 again?

I would hope we could have a president who looked at facts and didn't try to hammer reality into some academic's imagined wankery."

i'm glad thomas jefferson, john adams, ben franklin, and george washington all disagreed with you. ambition only has virtue if it is for something larger than yourself, which requires an ideology. otherwise it is only for self-aggrandizement. it is just a drive to be king of the hill.

ideologies get a bad rap, but belief in the bill of rights is an ideology, belief in democracy is an ideology, belief in equality is an ideology. capitalism is an ideology too, as is believing in terrorist boogey-men, who hate you for your freedoms.

what you describe is not about ideology but methodology. i agree that no one but a fool weds himself to a single methodology...but i also believe only a fool would extol the virtues of naked ambition, especially in someone you were thinking of granting the power of life and death over you. maybe you should take a break from ayn rand?

This will be the top selling issue of The New York...

2008-07-15T18:43:00.000-04:00

This will be the top selling issue of The New Yorker ever.

John Peterson said:"The only thing I disagree with...

2008-07-15T03:03:00.000-04:00

John Peterson said:

"The only thing I disagree with is the phrase `empirically-driven.' I disagree."

John, I'm interested in your thoughts. Why do you disagree with that?

By the way, THIS Michael has posted before, but has NOT posted in this thread. There are too many Michaels here, and it's undoubtedly confusing.

@Anonymous at 11:43: Could you be a little more h...

2008-07-15T01:28:00.000-04:00

@Anonymous at 11:43: Could you be a little more hysterical? Then we could laugh even harder.

You saidAmbition is what drives the Lincolns, the ...

2008-07-15T00:43:00.000-04:00

You said

Ambition is what drives the Lincolns, the Obamas and the McCAins.

While I agree ambition drives the Obamas... I say you are dead wrong by including the Lincolns and the McCains in that statement, They both ran for President for one single reason, Love of Country!

Obabma wants to change the best Country in the World into a Socialist country!

I agree with with commenters who say that if the g...

2008-07-14T19:41:00.001-04:00

I agree with with commenters who say that if the good people at New Yorker want Obama to be president, and they aren't ashamed to admit it, and Obama would be a fantastic president and the oceans would stop rising and all that, they shouldn't have used this cover. They are hurting their man in order to sell magazines, which is wrong.

On the other hand, I agree with the commenters who say that it is the business of magazines to sell their product, not pander to politicians. Choosing to use this cover may be a little misguided, but it also shows the magazine in a better light. They are actually willing to make fun of Obama, even if its ostensible purpose was to paint a caricature of right-swing smear jobs, or whatever they said. (More like Hilary smears, in my opinion). Whatever their purpose, most people, right and left, will find this hilarious, even if for totally different reasons. That's just great work on their part.

I used to be a New Yorker subscriber. Then Tina B...

2008-07-14T19:41:00.000-04:00

I used to be a New Yorker subscriber. Then Tina Brown came along. Starting then, and continuing ever since, the magazine has thought that its humor needed to become more cutting edge. It thought the majority of its cartoons were too "genteel" (this in the mag that brought Charles Addams and William Steig to our attention). To make the cartoons, and increasingly the covers, more 'cutting edge' they made them more sour on just about everything. (Particularly marriage, if you've been following the cartoons. There is no longer any such thing as a happy marriage in a New Yorker cartoon, or even one that is affectionately rather than hostilely skewered.) This cover is just part of that broader trend -- a trend that has made the magazine less witty, less funny at all.
This cover: freedom of speech on display, yes; intelligence and wit, no. I defend their right to put this out, and my right to condemn them for it.

Very well said. The only thing I disagree with is ...

2008-07-14T19:30:00.000-04:00

Very well said. The only thing I disagree with is the phrase "empirically-driven." I disagree.

The Obama campaign really dropped the ball on this...

2008-07-14T19:29:00.000-04:00

The Obama campaign really dropped the ball on this one.

They ended up looking like whiners. And it fired up his paranoid supporters that think the whole world is out to get them.

I am voting for Obama but some of the deification by his supporters is absurd.

I'd really love to see Michelle just laugh it off or make a joke about her hair in the cartoon.

It's getting ludicrous listening to the sanctimony of some other Obama supporters.

Folks, you are being made prey to a skilled provoc...

2008-07-14T19:16:00.000-04:00

Folks, you are being made prey to a skilled provocateur. Threads become hijacked, but never without something to keep one tenuously "hooked". To me it is simply not worth the time. We all get a life one way or another. Best, S

Pete Kent said... Michael, I have not and will ...

2008-07-14T18:35:00.000-04:00

Pete Kent said...

Michael, I have not and will not read his book. I'd much rather read Mike Piazza's autobiography if he ever writes one. Now, there is an American success story.

Obama when he speaks to alrge crowds reminds me of no one so much as Hitler. Liberals are the new Fascists. They want to take over our lives. It starts with making us adjust our thermostats and then it never ends . . .

Peter,

If you don't read his words it makes it far less credible when you sweepingly condemn him.

Your comparing Obama to Hitler in anyway is about as apt as Bush comparing Obama to Neville Chamberlain. Such extreme rhetoric as using the Hitler card is the nuclear option of comment hyperbole. In the case of a biracial man who reaches out to many marginalized groups, the comparison could not be less accurate or more offensive.

It cheapens the good points you make (and you do make some when you cool the outrageous insults) and does nothing to make someone take your arguments seriously. As for Piazza, didn't know he could write.

Michael, I have not and will not read his book. ...

2008-07-14T18:25:00.000-04:00

Michael, I have not and will not read his book. I'd much rather read Mike Piazza's autobiography if he ever writes one. Now, there is an American success story.

Obama when he speaks to alrge crowds reminds me of no one so much as Hitler. Liberals are the new Fascists. They want to take over our lives. It starts with making us adjust our thermostats and then it never ends . . .

"Pete Kent said... I am not sure what "works an...

2008-07-14T16:21:00.000-04:00

"Pete Kent said...

I am not sure what "works and words" you are referring to, but everything I have seen from this man suggests that all of it has been crafted to advance one thing: his personal ambition."

well, I would start with his book, audacity of hope, perhaps the most honest book by a politician I have read(not to mention exceptionally well-written). Compare it to the self-serving tomes of the Clintons or Carter's earnest as oatmeal autobio. You see it as calculating and crafted to further his ambition. I see a rather nakedly honest self-appraisal. As to his works, from law review to community organizer to state senator to u.s. senator, I see his actions as being those of someone trying to better the condition of his fellow citizens, but firmly within the constraints of the conventional political structures. He is no revolutionary, he is an incrementalist who believes in effecting change through consensus, but does believe things need to be changed.

Lastly, I am making a leap, but assuming you are not moved by his speeches. If so, your responses to his speeches reminds me of musicians who just don't like Coltrane, who most of us (I am a professional player) view as incandescently moving and inspiring. I see Obama's speeches, at their best, as ennobling, inspiring and uplifting calls to action, not calculating. To me, he is the most gifted and inspiring speaker since the Kennedys and MLK> Clearly I am not alone in that view. You don't hear his music. Guess that's what makes horse races (and elections).

Wow. Great article and a great write-up, Nate. Th...

2008-07-14T15:48:00.000-04:00

Wow. Great article and a great write-up, Nate. This article should be required reading for anyone interested in Chicago politics.

I think that this article might portray the most awesome Obama we've seen yet. This is a guy who understands what he wants and how to get it. That's great because he at this time seems to understand what the American people want (a responsible end to the war in Iraq, non-intrusive universal health-care, a balance BLEEPING budget, etc.), and stories like this can only help lend credence to the fact that this guy knows how to work the levers and deliver.

Our first GTD president. I like.

Thanks, Nate,
Sandy in Chicago

If any publicity is good publicity then the New Yo...

2008-07-14T15:47:00.000-04:00

If any publicity is good publicity then the New Yorker hit a home run. They may see a lot of canceled subscriptions though in protest from Obama supporters which is this magazines chief demographic, upscale liberals.

Michael said: "I have not read the article yet, b...

2008-07-14T15:43:00.000-04:00

Michael said: "I have not read the article yet, but it is the latest in a series (Times, National Review) where the high-end press is now seizing on the theme of the hour: Namely that Obama is and always was a shrewd and calculating politician, with no idealism in him whatsoever. Anyone who looks at Obama's works and words will know that this is as ludicrous a caricature as the New Yorker cover, but the media love to deal in simplistic narratives."

I am not sure what "works and words" you are referring to, but everything I have seen from this man suggests that all of it has been crafted to advance one thing: his personal ambition.

Again, this would not be so damaging to Obama if he had not tried to present himself as something new and different. It is and should be disallusioning that he is as crafty and as calculating as any other Chicago pol. Worse he is an inexperienced one, and is, therefore, more likely to stumble along the way.

The tortoise versus the hare!

BTW Drudge has been in the tank for Obama since the race began -- where have you been?

Canceled my subscription. I used to appreciate the...

2008-07-14T15:42:00.000-04:00

Canceled my subscription. I used to appreciate the wittiness of the New Yorker covers, but lately they've been heavy-handed and, well, stupid. Like this one.

What's more, the insides are nor particularly enlightening these days, either.

I think the mass media are starting to get scared that Obama might actually win.