Heard of a guy called Desiderius Erasmus? He was a 16th century scholar from the Netherlands (Rotterdam) who, among other things, defended the concept of free will and the ability of people to learn and adapt through broadened influences and experiences.
In modern times, old Desiderius is better known through the all-caps version of his surname -- specifically, the ERASMUS student exchange programme that has taught nearly two million European students since its inception in 1987.
The basic concept is this -- take young university students from more than 30 European countries (including the still non-EU states of Turkey, Switzerland, Norway, etc.) and plop them down in a school in another European country for three or six months or a year. In the host countries and institutions, all the students in the programme live and learn together. They work to learn the local language, culture, and educational system together, while at the same time getting to know people and cultures from several dozen other places.
The project was launched in 1987 by the European Commission, in the run-up to the establishment of the finalized European Union in the early 1990s. After several years of pilot student exchanges, the EC and EU member states found the concept highly successful, with the next generation of European citizens better integrated and informed, and supportive of diversity in language and culture. The programme has grown from about 3,200 students in 1987/88 to nearly 160,000 students in 2006/07, with more expansion on the way. The new "lifelong learning" portion of ERASMUS will give students and former students a change to do it all again, in another place, sometimes in a partial teaching role.
Graduates from the programme report feeling highly satisfied with the experience, saying that they leave feeling more "European," "integrated," and more culturally aware. A French friend of mine summarized the programme this way: "Most people have a great experience, keep life-long friends, and it looks great on the C.V.; I would highly recommend it."
Of course, ERASMUS is not without out its critics. Opponents call it "a waste of money and time," that is better known for alcohol and sex-fueled parties and students that never grasp the local language or culture. They argue that the programme should be more academically rigorous, and less focused on getting kids from far-flung parts of the continent to learn about each other socially.
Assuming that the reality lies somewhere in between, the U.S. can learn something important from ERASMUS. Indeed, we should think about implementing something similar, perhaps as part of the Obama education package that fits within the stimulus.
In a country with rapidly changing demographics, a highly polarized electorate, an emerging clash of language and still many people that still never venture beyond state lines, this type of student exchange -- perhaps at the end of high school or early college -- is just what the 21st century U.S. needs.
Currently, most exchanges that U.S. students undergo are one of two major types. First is the traditional "study-abroad" where college (or in some cases high-school) students go off to another continent for a semester, usually with a group of other American students. Second, there are "service" type trips and programmes, where students go to so-called disadvantaged areas to help out, often through teaching or building stuff.
Unfortunately, these continue to miss the more fundamental success that we have learned from ERASMUS in the EU -- cultural integration within a politically diverse body.
Why don't we in the U.S. enact an adapted, scalable programme that sends people to learn in parts of the country that are really different from their own? Kids from the city, it's off to rural areas; students from the mixed-language South-West, it's off to the Rust Belt. And throughout, students from different socio-economic and cultural backgrounds will arrive together in a brand new environment.
The idea of service should still play a prominant role, with the idea of the transplanted students giving back to their host communities in some way, such as doing projects that the local group of students and their hosts work together to decide on during the course of their stay.
As a leading early theorist, inventor, advocate for cultural learning and driving force behind two important early American univerisities, perhaps Benjamin Franklin is the right person for an American ERASMUS. And following his love of European language and culture, a FRANKLIN student exchange programme might be a nice tip of the hat to the European Commission's good thinking on the original.
---
Renard Sexton is FiveThirtyEight's international columnist and is based in Geneva, Switzerland. He can be contacted at sexton538@gmail.com
12.09.2009
ERASMUS in America (Cultural Integration)
by Renard Sexton @ 11:15 AM...see also education, international
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85 comments
Misspelling in your headline.
Nice idea....but on this side of the pond, it will not be without its critics. Too many Americans don't believe that we have anything to learn from one another; it's how we roll here. Too bad for all of us.
In subsequent posts, you are quite likely to see some members of this society's majority culture (read: conservatives) blathering on about socialism, political correctness, social engineering, blah, blah, blah.
Underlying all of this is an unwillingness to communicate with and learn from one another, and to hold tightly to one's own comfortable prejudices. There is in this country a collective fear of getting to know people that one has been raised to dislike. I wish that the present political environment would allow it, but too many people here have broken brains from the recent election of a liberal president of color. starting this program at this time would represent too much diversity too fast. The resistance would be too great.
This would be a great program for those who choose not to attend college. It could be a one or two-year program with an emphasis on team building skills and learning diversity.
Many people don't have the opportunity to attend big colleges where the community is a melting pot of students from all over the country (and the world). For people without the opportunity, I think it sounds like a great idea.
Another idea: Build a dormitory in DC for students/recent graduates who want to work in DC, but can only get internships or extremely low wages. This would help engage the youth in their civic duty, and it would help direct some young people into a career in politics.
We actually had something like this until the early 70's: the peacetime draft. Took me out of Chicago and into the deep south. Then to Southeast Asia. Real awakening.
Seems to me though American is a lot more homogenized than Europe.
Maybe this is something the Big 10 and Pac 8 would find interesting.
Wow. Very worthy, but what does this have to do with a political horserace blog?
This, on the other hand:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1209/Poll_Only_38_percent_support_health_care_bill.html
38 percent folks. Political suicide.
We have this program, and it is called AmeriCorps. Building understanding and strengthening communities by pulling together diverse youth in service to America was a founding principle of AmeriCorps 16 years ago, and remains a central tenet. We now are seeing even greater investment in this thanks to the recent passage of the Kennedy Serve America Act earlier this year. For more info, check out www.americorps.gov
Ah, Rotterdam. My favorite Swedish city!
38 percent folks. Political suicide.
Jeff - do you have similar surveys for previous bills that passed or did not pass? What happened to those who voted on them?
Also, wouldn't it be rather important how the 38% break down among the districts? Reminds me of when McCain was gaining in the national vote towards the end... but it was largely because he was gaining in numerous purely red states in Idaho while the swing states were slipping away from him.
In short, I think there's a lot of work to be done between "38 percent folks" and "Political suicide."
On the topic of Sexton's post, as The Seer said, I think America is a bit too culturally homogeneous for this to present much of a benefit. Indeed, if anything, the only thing I think this would do is perhaps show people that other places aren't actually so different from where they live. I mean, you move from the South-West to the Rust Belt, everything's more or less the same. Less Hispanics, sure, but it's just not as big a difference as you'd think.
(P.S. For those who live there, do you consider "Rust Belt" a pejorative term? I was having this discussion with my mum the other day. I thought it was a pretty neutral term for the big manufacturing states in the East like Ohio and Pennsylvania.)
I'm not sure if a inner-US student exchange would do much of anything. Culturally, the US is not very diverse in comparison to all of Europe. I'd also be interested in seeing some statistics about how much young people in the US travel outside of their state. In public high school, I went to many different places. I have friends from CA that would go on field trips with public schools to the Northeast. If there are people that never make it outside of their state, they probably wouldn't even take advantage of a US exchange program. There are plenty of opportunities to travel and if they won't do it already for short periods of time, why would they for a few months?
This is a "political horserace" blog?
Jeez, who knew?
I thought it was a "smart people talking about semi-political stuff" blog.
If anybody thinks increasing regional isolation and bloc-think in Ameica doesn't have a major effect on the outcome of elections... well, they just haven't been paying attention.
A few years ago I was driving back from my place in Nevada to the one in Canada, and stopped in a Montana town for gas. The guy at the service station noted my plates and said, "Canada, hey? I always been meanin' to go up there one day, but somehow I just never done it."
I looked at him in disbelief. "It's forty-five mintues to the border."
"Yeah, I know," he said, wiping bugs off the windshield. "But I just never got around to goin' there."
"I bet you vote Republican," I said.
The guy was just amazed that I could tell his politics simply by looking at him. :-)
It sounds like a reasonable idea until you consider that people in States such as New Jersey, whose schools compare favorable with Singapore's, would probably not want to send their children to be caught creationism in a one room shack in South Carolina. Also, I believe some parts of the country have significant rule of law issues where out of towners or minorities are concerned.
There is also the interesting effect that was brought up on this site during the 2008 election where Obama seemed to be doing better with white voters in states with small % black populations rather than large ones. This indicated that where minority groups are more of a concept than a reality, people will have less prejudice than those that actually have to live and deal with other ethnic groups on a regular basis.
I think most people are aware that they shouldn't pre-judge based on popular stereotypes and hearsay. However once one has some first had bad experiences with another ethnic group that will negatively color their future interactions with others of that group.
We have more or less a homogeneous country with ~20% in rural areas, the rest in suburbs or urban areas. Most in rural areas work in suburban/urban anyways, so even less is truly different.
Outside the very center cities, most of America looks pretty much the same. Cary like Fairfax like Irvine like most other suburban areas. Most of us can go to Bed Bath and Beyond or Macy's.
The "cultural experience" of Lund to Coimbra, Heidelberg to Napoli beats, hands down, anything you could construe for the US. Manhattan to Hilo? Anacostia to Minot? Chico to Jackson? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't buy that so many people *could* have a significantly different cultural experience.
City kid sent to Nowheresville? Wasn't that the premise of "Footloose"?
You're too late, they're already remaking it. It comes out next year.
see, jeff and the teabaggers are poll driven. After all, you can't go teabaggn without a poll
Why are you spelling "program" the cheeky British way ("programme") on an American blog?
"footloose"
man, that's prehistoric, we watched in an anthropology class.
you guys are soo old :( which odd considering nate is young.
Jeff, I wouldn't get too excited about "38%" and your fantasies of "political suicide." (Though it's kind of winsomely cute that you would actually think that :-)
Health care is not a single bill, or even a handful of them. It's an enormous, momentous, epic, ongoing national adventure. What has just hapepned probably falls somewhere between the coin toss and the opening kick-off... but it DOES mean the game is on, and that's exciting and really quite wonderful.
Lest anybody think this is quick or easy, here's a brief thumbnail hisptry of Canada's journey to single-payer health care (and the struggles that continue.)
This is drawing heavily on my own experience, which may not be germane to others, but I think a program of this sort should be undertaken after graduation from high school and BEFORE college. Just give 18-year-olds a year or two to do nothing other than learn what the rest of the country is like, get away from their parents (always a broadening experience), and learn what it's like to be off on your own working for a living.
My college had a work-study program whereby you were required to spend six months of the year working at a job, either of your own procuring or through the college. I was a reporter in an Ohio industrial city, a camp counselor in the Catskills, a copy boy for the NY TIMES, and edited a newsletter in Chicago. I got to see places I'd never been to, meet people from walks of life I had never met before, and learned to live on my own for the first time.
The only problem was the other six months -- the academic part of my college career. I hated it, didn't see its relevance to me, and eventually dropped out just seconds before I would have flunked out. If a program such as this had existed, I definitely would have gone for it, and would not only have gotten more out of it than I did from college, but I wold have saved my parents a lot of tuition money.
Jeff, wasn't there a post on this very site not so long ago talking about how, of the remaining 62%, 20% are undecided and 12% are opposed because they think it's a weak bill that doesn't go far enough?
Oh yeah, there was.
I've always had this fantasy of de-urbanization. If I were a young black woman living with my kids in a big-city ghetto where people get shot every day on the way to school and hopelessness, drugs and crime are rife, here's what I'd do. I'd scratch together enough money for the fare, pack my kids and buy one-way bus tickets to some little town in rural America. Once I arrived I'd announce myself willing to work at anything, and cast myself initially on the charity of the townspeople.
Any American town I've ever visited would take in this little family, give them work, find a few rooms for them to rent and help them get on their feet. Done on a massive scale it would help individuals and help the nation.
Maybe this is totally unrealistic (or maybe it just appeals to me because I can see so many story possibilities ;-)... but I think it could work.
Opponents call it "a waste of money and time," that is better known for alcohol and sex-fueled parties
The quoted text does not agree with the later. O_o
Anyway, yeah filistro. The lack of curiousity about the outside world is pretty stunning. Although admittedly he would have had to drive a little further than 45 minutes to see an actual Canadian. The north side of Montana borders on some pretty desolate countryside. :)
Rather than sending American students on foreign exchanges where they'll be surrounded by other Americans, why not send them to join Erasmus?
Richard:
We already have multiple private programs to pull inner city kids from their hellish neighborhoods and government schools and placed into a completely different environment. Outward Bound and religious schools come immediately to mind.
Given the completely distorted views of fly over country held by the rich city kids who post here, similar programs targeting them might be useful.
Flyover country kids are already amply exposed the left secular culture in the media and at university.
Oh dear. The conservatives are getting a bit testy, aren't they?
Do you all not at least acknowledge that the GOP has become a regional rump party, and this trend is increasing?
@Address
Some ERASMUS programs are actually open to students from the US and other non-EU countries, but that could be expanded.
@Bart
Hey now, don't disparage "flyover country" as you call it as full of people who think like you! Many of us are curious, educated, and intelligent progressives despite conservative media and cultural influences. After all, we finally have a midwestern President, who won the midwest and much of the west thanks to us "flyover country" progressives.
Hello,
As others have pointed out, the United States already has programs like this. One is called The Military, which without a doubt exposes you to a diversity of American culture, and another is College. While it is true that College tends to have less diversity than the military, most colleges have a minority of students from out-of-state, that function as four-year Erasmus exchanges.
What's more, in the United States, we have plenty of cultural divides that are geographically dispersed: Urban-Suburban-Rural, religious, ethnic, philosophical . . . even a state school where 90% of the student body is from the same state presents a lot of diversity.
I would say it is more important to show Americans to the world and show the world to Americans. I'd give every kid who wants to a few grand, but they have to leave the country and not return for at least three months. :)
Sincerely,
-danny
Jeff said...
Wow. Very worthy, but what does this have to do with a political horserace blog?
This, on the other hand:
blah, blah, blah
~~~~~~~~~~
538's bitter/crying/sore loser/whining/deflecting winger troll trying to change the subject yet again, shocking!
Nate suggested something similar in his TED Talk in February.
http://www.ted.com/talks/nate_silver_on_race_and_politics.html
Bart DePalma said...
Given the completely distorted views of fly over country held by the rich city kids who post here, similar programs targeting them might be useful.
BWHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHA
HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!
tOO fUNNY!
the teabaggers are now attacking the "rich"
Well done, Comrade Bart. Down with wall street!
I would comment on this post if it (and particularly the comments it has generated) weren't a classic bit of ill-informed left wing condescension. It's "cleverer than thou" tone is somewhat belied by its need to identify Erasmus in the first sentence. Anyone who thinks his own clique doesn't know who Erasmus was doesn't have the right to lord it over others about intellectual matters.
There's a similar experience in Brazil. Brazil also has a lot of regional diversity, a huge territory and a population that does not often travel across state borders. The main difference is that most good public universities are part of a network of federal institutions (most good state universities are in Sao Paulo). Nevertheless, if you're interested in this idea, you might want to check Brazil's experience out.
@Shots
You misunderstand. My comment wasn't about GOP voters. Yes, the lack of interest outside of their own bubble is something prevalent in the US. That is what Renard's post is about, addressing that.
And that cuts both ways, both inside the country and outside.
Filistro,
RE: you're being an ass to a perfectly nice sounding gas station attendant.
Has it occurred to you that his desire to visit Canada might have been a desire to visit Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver - you know, the normal travel spots? Not the vacant spaces that are actually only 45 minutes from his Montana home and look just like it? In any case, his desire to visit Canada was undoubtedly diminished significantly by running into the likes of you.
Given the completely distorted views of fly over country held by the rich city kids who post here
lol, I love it. You're a Florida-educated lawyer who now lives in Colorado, Bart. Do you really think the "I'm just a hard-workin' blue-collar man from the heartland" line of BS is going to work? You're an ambulance-chaser who flies over "fly over country".
(P.S. For those who live there, do you consider "Rust Belt" a pejorative term?)
I grew up in Michigan and currently live in Indiana. I've never considered it insulting.
@Jeff
He's likely not that far from Calgary. Million person city with some interesting bits of it's own, and short drive from there to Banff National.
To give an idea of how close to Calgary a good friend of mine met his wife while we were on a cheap weekend bus ski trip to Montana.
That same lack of curiousity is commonplace in most, if not all, minority-inhabited areas of urban America.
"Take a stroll down the rougher areas of Detroit, if you dare, and see how curious some of the most reliable Democratic voters are about things going on just outside the city limits."
I work in the inner-city of Chicago and I can tell you that the vast majority of the people who live there CAN'T afford to see the Christmas windows at downtown Macy's (in the Loop), let alone travel to Europe or around the U.S. To suggest that they don't WANT to do so is ignorance on your part, but I would expect nothing less from a wing-nut.
"I would comment on this post if it (and particularly the comments it has generated) weren't a classic bit of ill-informed left wing condescension. It's "cleverer than thou" tone is somewhat belied by its need to identify Erasmus in the first sentence. Anyone who thinks his own clique doesn't know who Erasmus was doesn't have the right to lord it over others about intellectual matters."
But yet you have to make a point to come on and post more of your right-wing blather. The tone of your post sounds quite a bit like insecurity. Kind of like Shakespeare, "thou protest too much."
Poor Jeff, wrong again. I was raised too much of a polite Canadian ever to be an overt "ass" to anybody.
(Well okay, except for jerks on the Internet. But even then I feel guilty afterward :-)
As for that rustic Montana gas station attendant, he liked me enough that it was actually a bit alarming. (OTOH, maybe he just liked my car. He certainly did caress its curves longingly...)
All joking aside, many of the previous posters are quite correct. There is a vast swath of uninhabited prairie between the southernmost Canadian cities and the northernmost Montana cities. It's an area so devoid of light and life, it might as well be Korea's DMZ to anybody with urban inclinations.
But I'd wager that 90% of the people living in Canada have crossed that void to visit various Montana cities (even though the corresponding Canadian cities are all quite a bit larger.) And without having any actual data at all other than anecdotal chats with individual Montanans, I'd wager the number coming in the opposite direction would be about 10%.
Seriously, why IS that?
I have had bountiful experiences with those from the inner-city. As a result, I have more than enough authority to speak about the curiousity of these individuals without relying merely on anecdotal evidence.
lol... I don't think "anecdotal evidence" means what you think it means.
I have had bountiful experiences with those from the inner-city. As a result, I have more than enough authority to speak about the curiousity of these individuals without relying merely on anecdotal evidence.
Damn, another brain-dead conservative.
Do you know what anecdotal means?
Hint: the evidence you gave is anecdotal.
shots, you're quite right. So, FACTS:
Montana (2007)
* Canada–U.S. trade supported 7.1 million U.S. jobs
* Total Canada–U.S. merchandise trade: $535 billion
* 24,250 Montana jobs are supported by Canada–U.S. trade
* Canada is Montana’s largest foreign export market
* Canadians made more than 578,200 visits to Montana, spending $174 million
* Montana residents made 95,200 visits to Canada, spending $34 million
Robert said...
City kid sent to Nowheresville? Wasn't that the premise of "Footloose"?
... and "The Simple Life", a re-imagining of Green Acres (but with more camp). :)
Every year the Fort Peck Summer Theater near Glasgow, Montana puts on a series of plays and musicals. The entertainers and stage techs are "just-off-Broadway" caliber, mostly young people from drama schools and theater companies in New York. They live all summer in this tiny prairie town, mingling with the cowboys, the sheepherders and the Indians from nearby reservations.
It's a beneficial experience for everybody, and the performances are fantastic. I'm told it's a genuinely life-changing program for all concerned.
Wow. 538 has jumped the shark. Numerous commentators, led by the inestimable filistro, are gauging the respective cosmopolitanisms of rural, Western Canadians and Montanans by guessing at how often they visit each other.
In my part of Canada, Canadians travel more to the US than the reverse for one reason: shopping. They want to avoid rip off Canadian prices and 13% sales tax. "Erasmian" instincts have nothing to do with it. Oh, and they also travel south when they desperately need some medical test and have been told they need to wait for six months to get it.
As a resident of flyover country, it is rather annoying to see my co-ideologists denigrate it to the extent they do.
In my part of Canada,
Do tell, where is that again? Obvious ON or east.
BTW that isn't so much in play Alberta-Montana given that the distance traveled tends to be a bit higher and Alberta doesn't have a PST (you'll be paying GST anyway). Although I've known people to do "shopping trips", it's usually of pretty dubious economical benefit, it's more an excuse given to just do something in a new place. ((Depends a lot on current currency rates which way is cheaper, from US to Canada or Canada to the US.))
Jeff said...
In my part of Canada,
~~~~~~~~~~
IIRC, you said you no longer live in Canada ...
DCsohl and others,
This poll would seem to put a rather big whole in Nate's thesis that health care reform is unpopular because of leftist opposition in significant part:
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/us_national_survey_ppp_1247.php
Opposition is vast in this poll, and is 90-6 opposed to ObamaCare because it involves too much government.
I think an important point has been glossed over by most of the comments here. What's important is not just the increased understanding of the world that comes with visiting places that are unfamiliar, that's just tourism. What's important is being able to accept that not only do others do things differently, but that different isn't always bad or worse, and in some cases, recognizing that someone else's way is better than yours.
I don't have a clue how anyone could judge whether conservative or liberal bias makes one more or less likely to visit new places and experience different cultures. I would say, from my own anectodal experiences that liberals are far more likely than conservatives to consider differences in a positive light, as well as consider the possibility that someone else's ways might be better. But that's just my experience.
Jeff said...
DCsohl and others,
~~~~~~~~~~
More deflection as this thread is about cultural integration.
take care
I think this is a good idea -- but an even better idea (and they could both be done) would be for the US to join the ERASMUS program, as a 31st nation.
@Jeff
Yeah I doubt many people would oppose HCR because the gummint just ain't big enough--that outlier poll you sited, which is certainly vastly different from other polls on the issue, includes some dubious phrasing.
The problem with the bill is that it doesn't do enough to make HC affordable and accessible, not that it involves too little "government" specifically!
@Shots
Well, let's see if I can restate that point without being too "condescending" for you:
You sited your anecdotal experiences and claimed them as not just anecdotal evidence.
Do you see the problem there? Hint: It's not that your critics use the wrong acronyms or have too goofy a handle.
You sited your anecdotal experiences and claimed them as not just anecdotal evidence.
Perhaps Shots is only saying that they have the authority to speak about the curiosity of just those individuals they have experience with. Then Shots' authority wouldn't be anecdotal regarding all inner-city residents, but rather just the subset Shots met.
Of course, that still makes it anecdotal relating to the entire discussion, but it would make the statement not necessarily as untenable as most anecdotal evidence.
Right on! I was a foreign exchange student in high school, and I have to say it was one of the most formative transformations that I have had in my life.
I would actually recommend foreign exchanges over domestic exchanges, if only because it would make the US a better neighbor in the world if more of us knew other languages. That said, if foreign exchange is not possible, this is an excellent idea, and one that I've seen sort of work through friends who've served in AmeriCorps, the domestic version of the Peace Corps.
For me, it's in the thousands and even tens of thousands. I'm not working with simply anecdotal evidence. It's far-reaching and complete.
Far-reaching and complete! Tens of thousands!
I think shots has spent the last couple of decades working as a hooker in Chicago Union Station.
Come to think of it, that kind of highly profitable enterprise would probably make a Republican out of anybody.
http://www.nse.org/
The nonprofit National Student Exchange fits pretty closely what you're suggesting, Mr. Sexton.
The only difference really is that it depends on the student to choose where they want to go.
Persuter said...
BD: Given the completely distorted views of fly over country held by the rich city kids who post here
lol, I love it. You're a Florida-educated lawyer who now lives in Colorado, Bart. Do you really think the "I'm just a hard-workin' blue-collar man from the heartland" line of BS is going to work?
I come from a blue collar family. I worked in the Army, construction and warehouses to become the first one in my family to graduate college and then law school. The American Dream is more than a cliche to my family.
You're an ambulance-chaser who flies over "fly over country".
If you are going to toss around mindless lawyer epithets, try using something you actually understand. An ambulance chaser is a personal injury plaintiff's attorney. I am a criminal and civil defense attorney. Folks hire me to defend them against ambulance chasers.
Bart, I thought people hired you to defend them against the state when they drive drunk?
I don't really care if you're blue collar or not. When you attack middle-class middle-America progressives for not supporting the agenda of the super-rich, it comes off as BS.
I'm a student and would definitely do this. Being from Suburban Tampa maybe the opposite of me would be Sedona AZ or something like that. Sounds like a great idea.
Bart DePalma said...
Folks hire me to ...
~~~~~~~~~~
One would think folks would hire you based on your job proficiency alone as many of the greatest lawyers of all-time have been both a prosecutor and defense attorney.
Hopefully running a 24/7 conservative anti-Obama political blog and posting spin and misinformation at various progressive political blogs makes one more proficient as an attorney ...
As you should know a truly outstanding lawyer should be able to argue any side of an issue and win! As a used car salesman will tell you, If you can't sell 'em, confuse 'em.
take care
btw, you worked in the Army as opposed to serving in the Army?
just wonderin'
Well the biggest problem is that those most in need of exposure to other ideas are the ones who are the most insular, parochial and most afraid of "contamination" from other ideas. Authoritarian, rural fundamentalists are always going on about the "elists" at the "liberal" universities because they are afraid of exposure to the outside world. They don't want their kids mingling with kids from different backgrounds. That's why many of them homeschool their kids. (Not that all or even most homeschooling parents have this motivation, but someone looking to isolate their kids from the rest of the world tends to choose homeschooling.)
As others have already said, it seems that the sort of student who would participate in such a program would also be extremely likely to attend a university which, at least as much as any FRANKLIN program, would provide an exposure to a different area and to fellow students from a wide variety of backgrounds. And that's leaving aside church-based programs, AmeriCorps, the military, semesters at other schools, and so on.
"And throughout, students from different socio-economic and cultural backgrounds will arrive together in a brand new environment." That describes a very, very common college experience in the US. There are benefits much like those described in the post above. And it lasts for more than just a few months.
Assuming that the goal is worthwhile (despite the nationalist overtones), I have a hard time seeing any significant additional value in the sort of program proposed here, particularly in light of the extremely minor historical, cultural and linguistic differences within the US as compared to the EU. At this point, the idea of considering oneself an Ohioan first and an American second is generally laughable. Learning to cope with the pop-soda clash hardly compares to tackling the French language. And so on. And to the extent that there are deep cultural divides, the geography seems relatively tangential in the first place.
Also, exploring national (or regional) differences between otherwise similarly situated students is different from exploring socioeconomic differences within a single nation (in terms of content, logistics, and more). The track record of ERASMUS seems fairly irrelevant with regard to the latter.
International programs, on the other hand: the more, the better.
For me, it's in the thousands and even tens of thousands. I'm not working with simply anecdotal evidence. It's far-reaching and complete.
No offense, but how can you possibly understand something as intimate as how much interest people have in seeing the rest of the world, for tens of thousands of people? It takes more than a few minutes, hours, or days to understand someone enough to know what they want out of the world and life, and your claiming to know enough about tens of thousands of people to make that determination.
Frankly, this sounds to me like the people on facebook who have thousands of "friends". Talking to someone for 10-20 minutes doesn't give you enough information to know what you are claiming. If your information isn't anecdotal, then it's just completely suspect.
I'm not sure if the American study abroad system was correctly represented here. I'm an American alumnus of the MAUI-UTRECHT exchange network, which is facilitated by a consortium of universities across the Midwest and Europe. The main issue for Americans is the cost. Travel and (at least for Midwesterners) the jump in the cost living can be extremely onerous. I was only able to go because of scholarship offered through a trust for students of my university. I lived in a dormitory with Europeans including some ERASMUS students. Although my situation may have been unusual, there weren't very many Americans at the university I attended. My experience was what you describe and I expect many Americans who went abroad would say the same.
It's a nice idea, but I'm not convinced that it would really change much except for the handful of participants.
The deeper problem in American politics is more likely the current closed primaries, electoral system, and single-member district plurality systems in use. These things all just encourage extremism and leave the median out in the cold.
The US would be better served by some kind of proportional representation system. Of course that would be a lot harder to get accomplished with the current system so entrenched.
Thanks! I had seen many passing references to ERASMUS and always intended to look it up and figure out what it is. Your post cleared things up for me.
As for application in the US, I think it's a superb idea that would be slaughtered by any non-liberal. Ughh, what a shame.
I am an american student at Leiden University, The Netherlands, and there are plenty of Erasmus students, as well as Americans studying abroad. In some sense there is much truth to the fact that few foreigners people learn dutch (i tried and failed) and that it does not predictably spits out well rounded worldly people. Some of them just group with their fellow countrymen and live in a bubble, others make an effort to reach out. I think that overall it is an incredibly informative experience and an eye-opening one as well. The criticism that it is just a party fueled experience is mostly true, many students only get pass-fail credits from their home university (pretty usual for exchanges) so the bar is set low. But then again if we all expect students to be primarily studying then what we cut down on much of the integrative effects of the experience. Partying and hanging out in each others company is what creates appreciation, tolerance, and maturity. By making people study more the main experience is that of a different faculty. It may be better, it may be worse, but in general academia is more similar within it than between it and the outside world. Exposure to different academic institutions is far less beneficial than the multicultural student environment which Erasmus creates. If all we wanted were different professors these programs could be done a lot cheaper with more a more regional network of universities. If what Erasmus does is get a whole bunch of diverse people being idle together then that is the main point.
I think that America could use this program, and I think that there are plenty of differences within america and especially Canada included. Having been to Saskatchewan and Montana there is a clear difference between the two and found those differences to be informative and interesting. One of my friends was an exchange student from a small liberal arts college in Mass and went 7 hours north to Montreal and had a very different experience. Yet there is good room for critique that American university exchanges would be disappointing in their results in promoting diversity. Most major universities are trying their hardest to accentuate superficial differences while all becoming some version of Harvard/Hogwarts. What may be most beneficial would be a set of University/Community College exchanges say for second year students where they could go someplace far away in North America get some basic classes (could be done in the second year)while parting and meeting the other students. Ya there would be cultural and some of other clashes (life is not perfectly integrated in Leiden either), but that is kinda the point. If everybody is supposed to be comfortable then they should just stay at home.
No one can be against exposing students to more diverse experiences. However, the issues may be different on both sides of the ocean
I have experience at most of the forms listed - I studied law in my home country (Belgium), went on Erasmus for a year to Dublin, studied a year at a top law school in the US, and I'm still involved at teaching EU law both at university to Erasmus students and in a special program aimed at US undergraduates studying/discovering 'Europe'.
The terms of the debate are different for all these groups. As a former Erasmus student I do remember the parties, but also the quality education I received abroad. Above all, I remember the forging of some form of European identity, an objective that may be less on the agenda in a hypothetical Franklin program. Also under Erasmus the social diversity may be limited - but then again most university students come at least from middle class backgrounds - though there clearly still was something of a mix.
Also in teaching courses with a lot of Erasmus students sitting in (together with our own students - even in our Dutch language program we teach some internationally oriented courses in English) I can vouch for the high academic standards we offer. What is revealing, though, are the differences in academic standards, and - even more - mental flexibility, between the students from various Member States, with northern students usually more up to the task.
Programs to bring US students abroad do function reasonably well in at least making students aware of the existence of a world outside their own. I'm not sure whether most actually offer them a better understanding of life abroad, but at least it gives them a new perspective on their own background.
Actually, that is to a large extent what I got back from studying a year in the US. I never claim that I've discovered the real America - most of my time was after all spent under the protective bubble of a major law school on the east coast - but I did find out that there was a whole other America out there, and I did return with also quite some questions about my own society and legal system.
Moreover, it did struck me - despite the exuberant fees - how diverse the student body really was, and what rich outreach programs indeed where available. Even I, as a foreigner in the US, got the opportunity to act as an election volunteer and help inmates in the state correctional system.
However, I do realize that the experiences at a top US law school are a far cry from the daily realities in most other educational institutions in the US. Yet, I do wonder whether the success of programs such as Erasmus are not partly in the clash of languages, in the confrontation with citizens of different countries - even though they may be on their way (though some may not like it as much as I do, which is in itself an interesting confrontation) to form an ever closer union, in short in some form of exotism, which a Franklin program may lack.
Finally,the EU has also introduced Erasmus-Mundus - top notch academic programs aimed at non-EU students, which will bring those students to at least two different universities in the EU. So, please do not hesitate to avail yoursleves of these opportunities that are already in place.
PS @Tree: Rotterdam my favourite Swedish city, nice one ;-)
A program of interest in a similar vein might be Katimavik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katimavik). It's associated with community service instead of university, but I don't think it's a bad thing to have some focus and goals instead of just 'hanging out'.
Personally, I wish it was expanded to a full year and included US and Mexico. There is altogether too much uninformed anti-US BS in Canada for my taste.
As others have noted, America already has programs similar to this, and has for many years. Furthermore, we are a very mobile nation, with people regularly moving from one part of the country to another.
Perhaps none of this is common knowledge to non-Americans (why would it be?), but this whole post doesn't make much sense. (And yes, if you're wondering, America has foreign exchange programs, too. Again, for many, many years.)
That and ERASMUS has some programs open to American students (at least at the postgraduate level).
I know this post is pretty low on the list of comments, but when I was in college (in Maine) I participated in a national student exchange and spent 6 months in Hawaii. This program is open to all students attending US state universities.
While I really enjoyed the experience, I would encourage Americans to go to the EU for more diversity.
I really don't get Renard's point here.
Despite our highly polarized politics and Palins and Becks chanting culture war, on the whole the US is very culturally homogeneous. I think Renard here lives on a diet of political news and doesn't really grok that I can go anywhere in the states and not feel awkward about my standard midwest accent.
Try that in Switzerland. You folks haven't even picked a language and you're trying to tell us we need to better understand each other?
Also we have a great deal of mobility within the country. The EU can only hope to match the willingness of our workforce to move across state boundaries. I have nuclear family, aunts, uncle and grandpa living in 6 states in the midwest and the west coast. My story is highly non-unique!
Even the public semi-selective university I went to had students from many different states attending. Highly selective or private universities would be much more diverse. That practically qualifies as an ERAMUS experience right there then doesn't it.
Any US-based exchange program of an ERAMUS size would just take away time from the best way for an American to learn some cultural diversity: to get out of the damn country.
But mostly what I think ERAMUS is about is creating a European identity. Which is great. But we have a great American identity already, thankyouverymuch. (maybe too much of one, I know at least in the midwest we could use maybe a bit more local pride.)
I think Renard here lives on a diet of political news and doesn't really grok that I can go anywhere in the states and not feel awkward about my standard midwest accent.
Well there is Palin's dad saying she couldn't hack it being a minority out in Hawaii. *shrug* So maybe there isn't quite the . Mind you maybe there are more cases of localized culture splits, so more localized cross-overs would help? Not long ago I heard some ads with kids asking their parents why their neighbourhoods were so homogenous when their parent's workplaces weren't.
But I don't think it's so much about that, it's about understanding that comes with being there, living there for a month or several.
A while back there was a discussion of firearms and something I said (I forget the text exactly) got an add-on from Gatordad that roughly went "to people in the city someone with a gun is the badguy, out in rural areas someone with a gun is just John your neighbor".
There are a number of things like that, and that statement above cuts both ways, that are hard to list and grok without the benefit of being there yet very important in understanding and working togother for solutions that respect both realities.
Exactly right Dwight, except our divides aren't mainly geographic. Sure NYC is culturally different than LA, but not as much as say the Hamptons and the Bronx.
When I started doing political organizing in my liberal university-dominated hometown, there were far bigger cultural and sociopolitical differences interacting with people 10 miles away than there had been visiting cities 1000 miles away.
And it's probably not something readily observable by going to different universities, at least not in large part.
That's why the suggestion about a "work term" type arrangement makes more sense. Or even towards a more community corps type program.
Yes, there is some opportunity for exchanges between cultures via Universities, the local University is going to pick up a bit of local vibe.
But I'm not sure that, say Liberty University, would be interested in an exchange. I get the distinct impression that kids go there, are sent there, specifically for the insullation...though I haven't looked into it that deeply.
The US has not only less regional cultural differences than Europe, but also less regional inequality. New York and San Francisco are richer than the rest of the US, but not by the same amount Paris and London are richer than their respective countries. The richest US metro area, the Bay Area, has a per capita income 49% higher than the national average. But Munich is 67% richer than EU average, Frankfurt 58%, Paris 70%, London and Southeastern England 62%. On the whole the EU has much less inequality than the US because of the smaller intra-regional inequality, but the differences between the ex-communist and Western states and between the big cities and the provinces are huge.
Europe also has much less integration of minorities into society. One can't imagine the US voting to ban minaret construction or burqa wearing - Americans are racist, but not that racist.
In general, I'd say each country's boosters should stick to their strengths. Americans shouldn't be telling Switzerland to restructure its rail system along the lines of Amtrak and to adopt American-style health care; Swiss people shouldn't be telling the US to adopt European ideas of social integration.
I have been thinking about this for a few days (internet comments are a system which offers perverse incentives: those who think least are rewarded at the top of the list, those who think longest are regulated to the unread second page and beyond). Anyway, the one thing the struck me as wrong is your choice of "FRANKLIN". There seemed nothing particularly compelling about him. While he did found two universities, the idea of a cultural exchange has no particularly relevance to his story (as opposed to Erasmus, who participated in myriad cultural exchanges).
If you ever go about reproposing this idea, consider calling it the TWAIN. First, the obvious play on "between". More importantly, Twain was considered with cultural exchange before such a thing was valued. His stories feature yankees, southerners, westerners, blacks whites and immigrants. Lastly, the purpose of these exchanges can be summed up in a pithy quotation from the conclusion to his wonderful book, "The Innocents Abroad", namely: "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts." (though perhaps you'd want to excise the last clause).
As some discussants have posted, the US Department of Education already has several programs and pilots in place.
I am a program director in a DOE FIPSE ATLANTIS program. (FIPSE= Fund for the Improvement of Post-Secondary Education). The ATLANTIS Programs are multi-university US/EU student exchanges, mostly resulting in joint or dual degrees. On the EU side, the funding agency is the same one that administers ERASMUS.
We've had great success in our particular program sending 12 students a year to the EU and receiving 12 EU students. Our students are doing joint-degrees in business and IT sculpted around Tom Friedman's flat world constructs.
The strength of the program isn't so much the academic curriculum, but the cross-cultural learning and bridge-building the students experience.
A barrier to success that has puzzled me all along (in our program) is that while it has been easy to recruit on the EU side to bring students here (so we always get very strong students), we find it difficult to convince US students to go study in Europe for a year.
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