Quantcast FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: 2009's Most Valuable Democrat Is...

12.23.2009

2009's Most Valuable Democrat Is...

This was supposed to be a brief column on Parker Griffith's defection to the GOP, but it's turned into something a little more ... involved. However, since we've been getting into the weeds a little bit lately on health care policy, I thought it was worth turning our focus back to our traditional political nerdery.

What makes a congressman valuable to his party? One fairly intuitive answer is that it's someone who votes with his party on key pieces of legislation more often than a typical congressman from his district would.

I have, therefore, compiled roll call votes on ten key pieces of legislation -- in my opinion, the ten most important pieces of legislation -- that came before the House of Representatives this year. These items are: the stimulus package, the FY 2010 budget, the health care bill, the Stupak Amendment to the health care bill, the jobs bill, the financial regulation package, the cap-and-trade bill, the Fair Pay Act, the Guantanamo detainee transfer vote, and the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which was attached to a defense appropriations bill. This is a little heavy on economic policy versus social policy or foreign policy, but that's how the House's agenda been this year. The Democrats won each of these votes in the House, except for the Stupak Amendment, although several of the policies have yet to pass the Senate.

What I then did was to run a logistic regression for each vote, comparing each representative's vote to his predicted vote based on his district's PVI. For example, a congressman in a district with a PVI of R+6 had a .37 likelihood (37% chance) of voting for the stimulus package. A congressman from such a district who voted for the stimulus package would be rated positively for his vote: specifically he'd receive a score of 1 less .37, or +.63. If the congressman voted against the stimulus package, on the other hand, he'd receive a score of -.37. I then added up each representative's score across all 10 votes.

This is pretty simple, really. Note that the method does not account directly for a congressman's party. This is deliberate. It's not proper, for instance, to compare Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin, the moderate congresswoman from South Dakota, to a typical Democrat, or even a typical Democrat in a conservative district, because if she were to retire, we can't take for granted that a Democrat would replace her. In fact, in South Dakota, she would probably be replaced by a Republican. Is Herseth-Sandlin -- even though she breaks with her party somewhat frequently -- more valuable to the Democrats than a typical congressman from South Dakota would be? That's what we're trying to get at.

Abstentions and votes of present are not counted as either positives or negatives. I also threw out a handful of "liberal no" votes; this is a situation where a congressman opposes a policy from the left when most of the opposition comes from the right. The liberal nos I identified were: Kucinich and Kaptur on financial regulation, Kucinich and Massa on health care, Kucinich, Stark and DeFazio on cap-and-trade, Kucinich on budget, and six representatives (Kucinich, Stark, Jackson Jr., Conyers, Filner and Welch) who objected to the defense language in the hate crimes bill.

Here, then, are the 25 most valuable Democrats, relative to their districts:



The most valuable Democrat is ... Bart Gordon of Tennessee. He voted with his party on each policy except health care and Stupak, in spite of being in a R+13 district. Unfortunately for Democrats, he's retiring.

Gordon is followed by several other veteran members, such as John Spratt of South Carolina and Ike Skelton of Missouri. The key thing to notice is that some of the most conservative Democrats are actually the most valuable. For example, Chet Edwards of Texas voted against his party on health care, cap-and-trade, the jobs bill, and financial regulation, but with the Democrats on the other six policies. But because he hails from an R+20 district, each of those yea votes (and these were yea votes on important policies, not tokens) qualifies as something of a minor miracle. Indeed, 12 of the 25 most valuable Democrats are Blue Dogs.

The highest-scoring Democrat to have voted for all ten policies was Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, who herself is a Blue Dog -- she votes against the Democrats somewhat frequently on certain issues, but evidently sticks by her party on key votes. The the most valuable member of the Progressive Caucus is Alan Grayson of Florida, who also voted for all 10 policies and comes from a R+2 district.

Herseth-Sandlin, for her part, ranks as the 37th most valuable Democrat, with a score of +3.38.

On the other end of the spectrum are a handful of Democrats who have negative scores. They vote with their party less often than a generic congressman from their district would, even without guaranteeing that the generic congressman is a Democrat. In other words, these are people who potentially deserve a primary challenge -- on average, dumping them would leave the Democrats better off, even if there's some chance that they'd be replaced by a Republican.



Topping the list is Artur Davis of Alabama, who comes from a D+18 district but yet has voted against his party on health care, detainees, cap-and-trade and Stupak. Fortunately, Democrats won't have to primary him -- he's quitting the Congress to run for governor -- but he's doing a fair amount of damage in the meantime. Following Davis is John Barrow of Georgia, who has been the subject of a primary challenge before. Then there's our good friend Parker Griffith, who voted against the Democrats on all ten bills -- fellow Alabaman Bobby Bright (who I'd give 60/40 odds of also joining the Republicans) was the only other Democrat to have done so.

(Brief strategy memo to teabaggers: it's not worth mounting your own primary challenge to Griffith. You'll like him. Trust me.)

Although 12 of the 25 most valuable Democrats are Blue Dogs, so are 8 of the 21 least valuable ones. It's short-sighted to lump the Blue Dogs together; they disagree on as much as they agree, and although some of them are among the most counterproductive Democrats, others are among the most worthwhile.

At the same time, the system can be quite punitive for just one or two votes against the party for a congressman who comes from a sufficiently liberal district. For example, Mike Quigley of IL-5, who replaced Rahm Emanuel in a special election in April, is punished here for a hard-to-explain vote against the Democrats on the jobs bill. Although it's probably not advisable to primary a congressman based on literally just one vote, if the pattern is repeated to any extent in future years such a challenge may become viable; the party should be able to expect something close to 100 percent loyalty from members in districts such as these.

(Note: Marcy Kaptur's vote against financial regulation should be classified as a 'liberal no'. The article has been updated accordingly.)

178 comments

Isaac Park said...

What a fascinating post. Thank you for some nuance concerning the Blue Dogs. It really is a shame that Bart Gordon is retiring.

Wayward Son said...

Thank you, Nate. When you leave electoral politics, and venture out into policy, it's like Jordan trying to play baseball.

Isaac Park said...

I actually find his policy analysis to be a nice complement to his statistical electoral analysis. While you can just ignore all his policy posts, I would like to get the gestalt.

Rob P said...

I think this analysis demonstrates that we get too hung up on labeling people. Especially when it comes to issues like abortion, there are many "pro life" Democrats and "pro choice" Republicans. You will find many pro life males of both parties in congress, as well as pro choice females. I fact, I believe you will find more coorelation with sex then with party when it comes to abortion. If men could get pregnent then abortion would have far fewer restrictions in the US.

Wayward Son said...

Well, when he sticks to electoral issues, he doesn't have to write 2 or 3 additional columns trying to further explain them, and one final one indicating that he won't comment any further on the topic.

His electoral analysis stands on its own merits, and is usually unchallenged.

Mike said...

Thanks. Is there a link to the complete list?

Would love to share it with local activists unhappy with the voting record of our Blue Dog representative. Our guy must be somewhere in the middle.

DerFarm said...

Artur Davis is no surprise. He is in it for Artur Davis alone. I hope he loses the governors race and we never hear from him again ... until they put him in jail.

Josh said...

I think you should be easier on Marcy Kaptur. For one thing, she voted down financial regulation from the left. Her one split with party leadership is on abortion, which actually isn't so different from her largely Catholic district.

howzat? said...

I'm not sure what you're measuring is how "valuable" a House member is.

To say one thing is more valuable than another implies that you should be willing to give up more in order to acquire or keep it.

What Gordon has given us is a lot of (politically) expensive votes -- votes that will be very politically costly to him, given the district he comes from.

But were those expensive votes worth buying? Maybe they could have been obtained more cheaply elsewhere.

It would be interesting to see who the Republican is who is "least valuable" to the Democrats -- the Republican who is casting votes most out of step with their district.

You might well want to spend more to challenge that Republican than to defend Gordon.

Wayward Son said...

The vote on Stupak really crushed a lot of ratings for folks in Dem districts, despite reliable votes on all other issues. If Stupak was telling the truth (which I doubt), a vote for his amendment was much less an endorsement of anti-abortion language, and more an attempt to keep healthcare reform on track.

Bart DePalma said...

Nate:

Brief strategy memo to [Tea Party folks]: it's not worth mounting your own primary challenge to Griffith. You'll like him. Trust me.

You miss the point of the Tea Party movement. It is a conservative - not a GOP - rebellion half filled with Indis and more than a few conservative Dems. We support folks like Griffith because they govern as conservatives, not because they jumped to the GOP.

Note to Blue Dog Dems in Red districts who have been voting for the Obama/Pelosi agenda. Jumping to the GOP will not help you. Simply retire or be washed away in 2010.

Brian said...

Fascinating analysis! Do you think you could do one for Senators as well?

DJAnyReason said...

Interesting analysis, but it would be improved if there were some metric for rating how important the votes were. For example, voting yay on Health Care is clearly more important than voting nay on Stupak. While it would be hard to come up with a robust measure for "importance" and "difficulty" of a vote, closeness might work as a reasonable substitute, along with an adjustment for whether the "Dem" position won (again, see Stupak). Also - how party-line the vote turned out to be would be another factor in "importance" (Financial Regulation > Health Care > Stupak).

Chuck said...

Shouldn't the "no from the left" people also be included in the "people worth primarying" category?

I don't see how the motives of a persons dissenting votes make them any more valuable to the party.

Also, it would probably be more informative to include an equal number of failed and successful votes. With all successful votes, you don't learn who the people willing to sink you are.

Chris said...

I second the request for the full list. In particular, I want to know how the devil himself (Stupak) rates. I'm just begging for an excuse not to vote for him again. But if voting against him would turn out to be counterproductive, I'll hold my nose and put the checkmark by his name.

Karin said...

Fascinating and invaluable analysis.

Michael said...

Nate has officially jumped the shark. After snarking the teabagger movement Nate wants to do teh same for the Democratic Party and purge all those with whom he disagrees. WTF is the opposite of a teabagger anyway? Bat-Shit Crazy?

Gene Ha said...

Bart DePalma said:
"We [Tea Party activists] support folks like Griffith because they govern as conservatives, not because they jumped to the GOP."

In this case, the 'we' doesn't apply. Nate has it right, the Tea Party in Alabama is coming after Griffiths. From Steve Benen at Washington Monthly:

"This is an act of desperation to maintain power," said [Les Phillip -- a Tea Party activist who'd been waging a Republican campaign for Griffith's seat since August]. "It's exactly what people in this district are sick of. When someone lied before, and now says he's telling the truth, well, was he lying then, or is he lying now?"...

A variety of prominent Alabama Teabaggers and assorted right-wing leaders all said they don't really trust Griffith, question his integrity, and planned to back others in the GOP primary.

FreedomDemocrat said...

Can you post numbers for everyone? I disagree with a few of your decisions on who to exclude for voting "no from the left," like Kaptur with financial regulations, and would like to see how many other Dems didn't make it into the top tier because of this.

FreedomDemocrat said...

Nate, which vote for the "jobs bill" are you using? Here's the roll call vote for the one that just passed http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll991.xml and Betsy Markey of Colorado voted "no." You have her listed as voting "yes" on table. Are you confusing her with Ed Markey of Massachusetts?

Ed said...

It must be interesting to live in Nate World. Now he wants a religious test to join the Democratic Party. In case you haven't figured it out yet, the vast majority of Nate's "least valuable democrats" are Roman Catholics and should be primaried. I really don't have time for this kind of purity test by someone who has no idea what he's talking about. You guys aren't going to be satisfied until teh GOP takes over the House are you?

Big No said...

Nate -
I would be curious to flip this around. Why not apply logisitic regession to predict PVI from the vote record vector? Then score each congressman based on how much their predicted PVI differs from actual?

Chris said...

Good stuff, Nate. But it seems like abortion is the only splinter issue for a lot of the "least valuable" Dems. Is the full table available anywhere? I'd love to see how the list changes if you either remove the Stupak vote or downplay its importance by weighting the votes. Anyway, please keep this sort of analysis coming. Als, I'll second (or third) the request for a Senate breakdown, as well. And I think it'd also be interesting to look at which Republican House and Senate members are most or least valuable to the Dems (e.g. are there any Republicans that would have positive scores?).

Leather D said...

Not for nothing, but A. Davis is almost certainly voting as he is partly because he is running for governor and Alabama as a whole is certainly not D+18. So, IF Davis can win, arguably there is still D value in the votes.

Anna said...

@Josh

Kaptur's Catholic district may or may not be an excuse for her anti-choice vote. Catholic opinion on choice is the same as the rest of us and they have abortions at the same rate.

That her district is conservative, on the other hand .... may be a big factor because conservatives are anti-women on several dimensions.

Walker said...

Republican, Democrat, White, Black, Puerto Rican, everybody just a freakin', Tweedle Dee, Treedle Dum, it don't matter, the United States of America is b-r-o-k-e.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

An average of almost $40K per citizen.

We are all living on borrowed time, in hock to China, laboring under an explosively expensive government fraught with graft and fraud, about to pile on more debt and entitlement obligations.

I can't get exited about Republicans mopping up in 2010 because I know in my heart of hearts that they'll continue the charade, albeit more slowly, but the end result will be the same, an eventual crack-up, top-to-bottom, of our entire nation's economy.

We are Argentina at the Turn of the Century, a former economic powerhouse about to enter a prolonged, dark period of decline.

Better brush up on your Cantonese, Hindi, and Portuguese, people.

Riley said...

It would be interesting to see the "least valuable" number re-run without the Stupak vote, which is something that nearly all of the least valuable players profiled here have in common. Surely some anti-abortion Democrats are among the least reliable members of the party. But some are among the most reliable on matters not related to abortion.

Seeing Marcy Kaptur in that list makes me question its usefulness.

desert dawg said...
This post has been removed by the author.
scottwheels said...

Is Gene Taylor really not on this list? He was my Democratic congressman in Mississippi for years before I escaped, and the only time he ever voted with the Democrats was voting Gephardt for Speaker. (Including voting to impeach Clinton, who he badmouthed when he spoke to my school well before the Lewinsky incident.)

Bart DePalma said...

Gene Ha said...

Bart DePalma said: "We [Tea Party activists] support folks like Griffith because they govern as conservatives, not because they jumped to the GOP."

In this case, the 'we' doesn't apply. Nate has it right, the Tea Party in Alabama is coming after Griffiths. From Steve Benen at Washington Monthly: "This is an act of desperation to maintain power," said [Les Phillip -- a Tea Party activist who'd been waging a Republican campaign for Griffith's seat since August]. "It's exactly what people in this district are sick of. When someone lied before, and now says he's telling the truth, well, was he lying then, or is he lying now?"...


Sour grapes. Benen wants Griffith's seat. The problem with Benen's claim that Griffith is lying is that his conservative voting record matches his conservative campaign. Griffith's speech announcing his switch and excoriating Obama and Pelosi's policies was pure red meat to the Tea Party and is making the rounds of the conservative blogosphere.

A variety of prominent Alabama Teabaggers and assorted right-wing leaders all said they don't really trust Griffith, question his integrity, and planned to back others in the GOP primary.

Once again, the Tea Party is not a monolithic movement. It is a grass roots rebellion with a variety of folks united by a fury over how politicians who campaigned from the center right betrayed and are now ignoring the conservative majority who elected them to inflict on the country the hardest left turn in governance since the Great Society.

This point of unity does not mean that its members are not individuals with their own opinions and :::gasp::: own personal political ambitions and agendas.

So far as most of us are concerned, though, may the best conservative win. That is the choice' Griffith's district will have in 2010.

Juris said...

A more classic approach might focus on "party loyalty," and would also distinguish between procedural and substantive votes.

A party loyalist will almost always vote with the party leadership on procedural issues, ones that in essence allow the leadership to set or control the agenda, but will be allowed to vote against the party on occasion on substance when doing so would enhance the member's district level support. (Example, 100% of Dems in Senate have voted for cloture this week. But they may not all be there on final passage of HCR.)

Nate's analysis involved only substantive votes, which increases the likelihood of finding some "disloyal" members. But it's valuable nonetheless.

(As for Wayward: thanks for your "concern," but you're wrong.)

Roger said...

This is a fantastic post Nate - thanks for putting this together. I'd actually really like to see a) the same analysis for all Dem Senators, as an earlier poster suggested, and b) the entire list of all House Dems from most valuable to least valuable. Any chance you might consider posting that?

Rasmus said...

BigNo,
interesting idea. I don't think Nate reads the comments, but I might give it a shot this evening.

Dorothy said...

@Wayward Son

His electoral analysis stands on its own merits, and is usually unchallenged.

This is because so few of of the net-roots have the statistical and math chops to challenge. Without meaning to flatter him too much, when Nate "ventures into policy" the appropriate analogy is Olympian Jim Thorpe playing football rather than your suggestion of Jordan playing baseball.

Unlike so many of his debaters, Nate's analysis are data-driven, solidly grounded in "the math," and rigorously seeing things as they are rather than as we might like them to be.

Hence the Thorpe analogy; policy may not be Nate's best and highest talent, but he still stands head-and-shoulders above most of the voices out there - especially the increasingly deluded kill-billers, et al.

jjankechu said...

A few notes:

1) Sweet! Political VORP! Can we get an acronym for this score?

1a) What does a replacement level rep look like?

2) Would you really be able to fairly weight votes? What's important to you may not be as important to me. Perhaps if you tallied up mentions in the media?

3) And finally, will 538 be sponsoring IPA MVP and RoY awards or what?

Alexander K. said...

"This is pretty simple, really. Note that the method does not account directly for a congressman's party. This is deliberate."

Hmmmm. I think I agree with Nate's analysis. On the other hand, I also think that one of the 10 most important votes of this Congress (in fact, probably THE most important vote of this Congress) was for Nancy Pelosi as Majority Leader - which vote was entirely based on party. And Nate's analysis does not take this into account at all.

At the very least, I think that I would add an 11th vote to the analysis - who the Congressman voted for as Majority leader.

Alexander K. said...

Let me add to my prior comment - let's say that 40 Democratic Congressmen were replaced by 40 Republicans who voted for John Boehner as Majority Leader, but who *otherwise* voted on the 10 bills Nate analyzed exactly the same way as the 40 Democrats they replaced. Would Nate THEN say that party is irrelevant? I wouldn't think so! Yet his analysis would mark them the same, no?

Phil said...

PVI is probably the best you have to work with, and it's probably sufficient for understanding how people are likely to vote in general elections. However, I think more granularity is needed in order to properly analyze a representative's relationship to his constituents on policy issues. The abortion votes highlight this -- I could see some districts (African-American, perhaps? I don't really know.) being poor and highly religious in a "gospel of the poor" way that would make votes for financial reform and health care no-brainers, but would make pro-abortion votes a third rail. This hypothetical district would have a highly D+ PVI (and therefore penalize anti-abortion votes highly), but would primarying this representative make sense, when the replacement would likely do almost the same thing?

If there isn't something like a PVI metric on particular hot-button issues, that's a real opportunity for someone. Until then, analyses like this are promising and worthwhile, but have real limitations and (IMO) are easy to misread.

New Mexico Matt said...

I agree with the posters concerning Roman Catholic representatives and abortion. I know Silvestre Reyes, for example, represents a district which has a lot of Roman Catholics and his support of Stupak is probably in line with the majority of his constituents. Although I disagree with him on that issue, I'm not so sure a primary challenger would be a "better Democrat."

Alex S. said...

That was a great post Nate.

By the way, it seems to me there are not many Dems who "deserve" a primary challenge. I'd only challenge those with a significant negative number (Davis, Barrow, Kaptor) or those who almost completely vote against the Democratic agenda (Bright, Griffith and possibly McIntyre - but even McIntyre can be a valuable caucus member on bread and butter issues).
Also, I'd love to see a comparison with the Republicans.
And finally, that Stupak amendment made a lot of impact. Could have been tactical voting, or catholic pressure in classic catholic strongholds.

OctaviusIII said...

I'd actually like to see a similar analysis for Republicans. Who would be a better challenge for Democrats? Is the spread of their scores narrower? (Probably yes.)

ChrisP said...

To echo LeatherD, I think there needs to be some accounting for 'rising stars' who aren't voting with their district because they are looking towards bigger things, ie AL governorship or future presidential candidate. Davis may not be valuable purely as a representative, but if he wins the governorship in a state like AL (and maybe a pres. down the line) then it may be worth it to take the no votes in the short run, especially if they didn't matter. (caveat: I don't know much about Davis, so he may not be someone we want running for pres)

I'd also like to see, as several other readers have already suggested, this done with the Senate.

One more thing, shouldn't we look at a reps entire career? Maybe some of these Dems have been the least valuable THIS session, but have been fairly reliable prior. I haven't really thought out why that would be the case, but it would be interesting to see.

Pragmatus said...

Walker said…

“I can't get exited (sic) about Republicans mopping up in 2010…”

It’s the Republicans, not you, that are going to get “exited” in 2010.

VR said...

I second the earlier request to flip this round. It would be interesting to see how well PVI is predicting votes.

David said...

Walker sez, "We are all living on borrowed time, in hock to China, laboring under an explosively expensive government fraught with graft and fraud, about to pile on more debt and entitlement obligations. I can't get exited about Republicans mopping up in 2010 because I know in my heart of hearts that they'll continue the charade, albeit more slowly..."

I agree with you in large part, Walker. I felt I was a lone voice crying in the wilderness while the Reagan and Bush II tax cuts caused our deficit to soar during times of economic expansion. Were you with me then?

Now, however, is a time of near economic collapse, and hence is no time to be worried about the deficit (the main cause for the sudden increase was plummeting tax collections, rather than any new spending anyway). Once the economy is back on solid footing, we can (must) reduce (or even eliminate) the deficit.

Like you, I'm not optimistic that either party will have the political courage to do so, however. I only take issue with saying the Republicans will do the same a the Democrats, "albeit more slowly." Recall in 2001 that the Republicans were justifying a tax cut because there was a "danger" that the surplus would pay down the debt completely, reducing the ability of the Federal Reserve to steer the economy. Would never hear that from the Democrats.

schakj said...

Please do a similar analysis on the Senate. There might be less variation, but the results might still be interesting.

Delorian said...

Nate,

Excellent post.
This is what you do well.
Instead of picking fights with progressives, please stick to this.

Shawn said...

On financial regulation, Kaptur and Stupak are left purity no votes. Both of them supported amendments to the bill that made it stronger and both explicitly stated that they voted against it because it was too weak and too pro-industry for their liking.

Mark in Austin said...

Most practicing lawyers will tell you that the "Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act" is a political stunt and has no value as legal policy. One either has a guilty mind, or one does not. Murdering one's spouse is not qualitatively better than murdering a homosexual, and if it were, the law would be unable to rationally distinguish that quality.
This single vote is not as meaningful as the others.
----------------
Why give DK a pass for being a lefty contrarian? Because he is short?

mpm4370 said...

Boy, how bad must those internal polls be for the democrats for a guy to voluntarily leave their solid majority to join the minority party that hasn't been elected in the district in 140 years?

Doesn't seem to bode too well for the democrats in my opinion. Look for more defections in the months ahead.

thurst4444 said...

@BDP

You say you support Griffith for his conservative views then say you would get rid of anyone who took the same action.

It's a moot point, Griffith is toast.

Anyway, BDP, hope you and yours pursue this agenda, so far primarying from the right has won four House seats and a Senate seat...for the Democrats (including 10-for-10 Giffords)...I doubt there are as many hateful and insane people (sorry, try not to attack like that, but haven't seen the teabagger movement to be anything else) as you think there are...and if there are by 2010, well, then, I'll work on my passport, b/c if that many people believe Obama's making the country socialist, well we're going to be a scary place to be...

filistro said...

With regard to Griffith and the teabaggers, I would like to make a couple points. First, yes he will almost certainly face a primary challenger. The Freepers and Red Staters are already organizing and pushing hard for it. (And... he will likely not survive this challenge.)

Second, after long study of nuanced and fully-articulated positions, I have concluded there are TWO distinct splinter groups on the right... the teabaggers and the Tea Partiers. They are not the same.

The Tea Partiers mostly consider themselves libertarian, and are concerned with fiscal issues. The teabaggers are just nuts, and mostly motivated by religious fundamentalism, racial hatred of Obama and irrational wild-eyed terror of "socialism."

I think our Bart DP is one of the former group (though I do question his self-avowed libertarian credentials because he is anti-choice and supports the interventionist Iraq war.)

But I don't think Bart is a teabagger.

Also my back-of-the-envelope estimate, based on my study of right-wing blogs and print literature, is that the ratio of rabid, nutso teabaggers to the somewhat brighter and loftier Tea Partiers would be in the neighborhood of about 85-15. Maybe even 90-10.

WV: cryingw.... never mind...

wehateyourblog said...

Nothing personal, but we hate your blog.

http://wehateyourblog.com/2009/12/23/we-hate-five-thirty-eight/

It's just what we do.

Walker said...

Even on Christmas Eve's Eve Pragmatus plays the Grammar and Spelling Task Master of the classroom that is 538.com.

A few intrepid souls do their part, ignobly and often in obscurity, to uphold the King's English (and on the world-wide inter-tubes no less).

We are truly blessed to have one of them dwell amongst us.

Pragamtus, you are a Paragon, fine sir!

Regarding Bart Gordon, he is a loss to Democratic and even progressive strength in the House. Progressives will have a very difficult time passing anything if the Bart Gordon's of the House all retire or are defeated.

You have to admire Representatives like Chet Edwards, who represents Texas A&M of all places, voting for Pelosi's agenda and still somehow surviving.

Another former Rep who did this on the flip side was Pat Toomey, who just might be a new Senator next year. He won three races in a row in blue-collar, Dem-leaning House seat.

Anyhoo, have a great Christmas and Hanukkah season, ya'll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Z-4H39BCM

Jim Halpert said...

I think a really important point is that he will be even more valuable in 2010 in that he's going to vote for the healthcare bill now that he is free to vote without worrying about reelection.

ph-unbalanced said...

@Mark in Austin:

The most important part of the Hate Crime legislation isn't the additional penalties on people convicted of Hate Crimes. It's the provisions for tracking statistics of crime against LGBT victims, and the ability to bring federal prosecutions if local law enforcement isn't willing to prosecute crimes against LGBT victims.

How prevalent is crime against the LGBT community? No one knows, because before this law came along *no one was keeping track*. Anecdotally, it's pretty bad (especially for transfolk) but we need hard numbers to be able to prove it and get policy help. *That's* what the Hate Crimes Bill is actually about.

Alex S. said...

By the way, when I first read the title of this post, I immediately thought of Parker Griffith whose switch and the republican reactions to it serve as a warning to all the centrist/conservative democrats who think they can appease the republican fringe - it won't work.

spas4u said...
This post has been removed by the author.
spas4u said...

I think FiveThirtyEight could better spend it's time looking at the coming change 2009 is driving. The last sentence below says it all.

"Tuesday, December 22, 2009
Republican candidates now have an eight-point lead over Democrats, their biggest lead of the year, in the latest edition of the Generic Congressional Ballot.

The new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 44% would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate while 36% would opt for his or her Democratic opponent. Support for GOP candidates held steady over the past week, but support for Democrats slipped by a point.

Perhaps this helps to explain why Parker Griffith, a freshman congressman from northern Alabama, is expected to announce today that he is switching parties. Elected as a Democrat, he is switching to the GOP because of unhappiness with national Democratic policies. Several other Democratic congressmen in swing districts have announced that they will not seek reelection next year.

Men prefer GOP candidates by 19 points over Democrats, while women are evenly divided between the two. Among voters not affiliated with either party, Republicans lead by a 43% to 19% margin."

Bart DePalma said...

thurst4444 said...

@BDP You say you support Griffith for his conservative views then say you would get rid of anyone who took the same action.

I posted: "We [in the Tea Party movement] support folks like Griffith because they govern as conservatives, not because they jumped to the GOP. Note to Blue Dog Dems in Red districts who have been voting for the Obama/Pelosi agenda. Jumping to the GOP will not help you. Simply retire or be washed away in 2010."

I have no particular view on Griffith except to observe that his record of governing (not views) is the kind which Tea Party folks would support.

My second point was that a Blue Dog governing from the left who is jumping from the sinking Dem ship in a bid to become a RINO has no hope of getting conservative support.

As you can see, the theme here and in the Tea Party movement is pay attention to what the politician does and not what he or she says, then vote accordingly.

filistro said...

Blogger Shots said...

There's never a bad time to worry about the deficit. Good times or bad, this is something we should pay close attention to.


* I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself.
-Ronald Reagan, Gridiron Club annual dinner, March 24, 1984

Bart DePalma said...

filistro said...

Second, after long study of nuanced and fully-articulated positions, I have concluded there are TWO distinct splinter groups on the right... the teabaggers and the Tea Partiers. They are not the same.

The Tea Partiers mostly consider themselves libertarian, and are concerned with fiscal issues. The teabaggers are just nuts, and mostly motivated by religious fundamentalism, racial hatred of Obama and irrational wild-eyed terror of "socialism."


Interesting dichotomy. Misinformed, but interesting,

The vast majority of Tea Party folks believe as I do that Obama is a standard issue EU style democratic socialist based upon his record, not because we have wild eyes. Playing the race card is not a defense to Obama's record of socialism.

I have never met one of your crosses between the Taliban and KKK "tea baggers" who hate Obama because the man is half African American. Perhaps, you would care to offer examples of actual tea party groups advancing this philosophy? Please do not offer one or two individual nut jobs posting in the web as proof of what the millions of the rest of us think. Right now, Tea Party support stands at the mid 40s in recent polling, substantially more than the political parties.

Once again, you really ought to attend a couple Tea Party meetings or rallies and actually speak with the folks there. We don't bite and you may be surprised to see a number of your neighbors.

I think our Bart DP is one of the former group (though I do question his self-avowed libertarian credentials because he is anti-choice and supports the interventionist Iraq war.)

My ideology is what used to be termed liberalism in the 18th and 19th centuries before the entrance of socialism turned the terms liberal and conservative around 180 degrees. Today, the best term I can come up with that folks will understand is libertarian conservative.

Straight Libertarians are the descendants of the Anti-Federalists, who believed in a figure head central government and whose idea of a foreign policy was a general militia and avoiding contact with the rest of the world as much as possible.

I support the Federalist position that that government should be limited to preserve the citizenry's liberty, but has a necessary function including a muscular foreign policy to advance our national interests. This is why I parted ways with the libertarians at university when Reagan came on the scene offering a return to classical liberalism.

filistro said...

@Bart: Perhaps, you would care to offer examples of actual tea party groups advancing this philosophy?

Bart, pay attention. I didn't say Tea Party groups oppose Obama based on racism. But teabaggers most certainly do.

Please note that I distinguish between the two groups, and these are going to be my definitions going forward. I won't in future call you a teabagger because I don't think you fall into that specific category.

Wayward Son said...

A caller to CSPAN yesterday referred to themselves as a 'tea bag group'. Based on his report of their activities, the group was apparently on their knees all evening.

I see no reason to argue with them, and will continue to call them what they call themselves.

Martha said...

It's Alabamian, not Alabaman.

filistro said...

Wayward Son... was he the member of this teabag group who called in to C-Span, distressed that their fervent prayers for Senator Byrd to die might have ricocheted off the chamber wall and instead nailed Jim Inhofe?

Oh, the dear teabbagers and their beloved Princess Palin. A constantly reliable source of humor. Please, please, never leave us!

Note: a few are now claiming the phone call was a hoax. I know enough about teabaggers to believe every word of it.

Bart DePalma said...

BD: Perhaps, you would care to offer examples of actual tea party groups advancing this philosophy?

filistro said...Bart, pay attention. I didn't say Tea Party groups oppose Obama based on racism. But teabaggers most certainly do.


OK, I'll accept your distinction, if not your labels. I am sure that some of Obama's opposition is racial as is some of his support. I just call them racists.

Obama's opposition is far larger than the Tea Party movement. Maybe 45% of likely voters support our movement, while 56% disapprove of Obama.

filistro said...

shots, my point is that David was quite correct when he said:

Now, however, is a time of near economic collapse, and hence is no time to be worried about the deficit (the main cause for the sudden increase was plummeting tax collections, rather than any new spending anyway). Once the economy is back on solid footing, we can (must) reduce (or even eliminate) the deficit.


...and the majority of thinking people on both sides of the aisle would agree with him.

NOTE: (in my continuing effort to be helpful...) you would look a bit more grown-up if you forced yourself to leave off the final two sentences of most of your posts.

filistro said...

Bart said: Maybe 45% of likely voters support our movement, while 56% disapprove of Obama.

Gallup's approval/disapproval this morning is 50-44. But hey, what's a measly 12% among friends, eh? ;-)

mikeleone56 said...

Anna,

Check the PVI again -- Kaptur's district is NOT conservative! I don't know if it ever was, but a
D+10 district is not one where a Dem rep needs to be making concessions to conservatives.

shiloh said...

Bart DePalma said...

You miss the point of the Tea Party movement. It is a conservative - not a GOP - rebellion half filled with Indis and more than a few conservative Dems.
~~~~~~~~~~


Michael Steele, Dick Armey unite on health care

Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele will join forces with one of the key leaders of the Tea Party movement next week in an effort to put the brakes on the Democratic health care reform bill.

Steele and former House Majority Leader Dick Armey will hold a joint press conference call on Monday morning to discuss efforts by both the RNC and the conservative grass-roots to stop health care reform.

The call will be the first joint effort between Steele and the tea party movement — which Republican candidates have been trying to court since the widespread anti-tax rallies in April that launched the populist uprising.

“The two have connected on the matters of this health care bill,” said an RNC source.

Communication between the two groups has been tricky, as the RNC cannot be seen as contributing funds to or coordinating with an outside group, though both Steele and Armey have been speaking for some time.

The Republican Governors Association has also tried to capitalize on the Tea Party movement — hosting tele-town halls with governors popular in the tea party crowd and on subjects important to the anti-tax protesters.

Through his group FreedomWorks, Armey has helped organize anti-tax rallies across the country and facilitated the protest outside the Capitol on September 12. Until now, the group had kept its distance from Republicans as the movement has expressed deep frustration with both parties.

Steele and fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill have tried to tap into the movement's energy by organizing their own tea party protests, the latest of which occurred earlier this week.
~~~~~~~~~~


filistro said...

But I don't think Bart is a teabagger.
~~~~~~~~~~


Nobody thinks he's a teabagger, but he's such a lovable troll ;) we let him think he is ...

Charles said...

BDP:

Are you going to see Sarah Palin at the National Convention 2/6/10?

spas4u said...

filistro,

Interesting you use this quote from the man who was a champion to for a balanced budget amendment and for line item veto:

"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself."
-Ronald Reagan, Gridiron Club annual dinner, March 24, 1984.

The entire deficit at that time was right at $1 Trillion, it now stands at over $12 Trillion. President Obama and the Congress (controlled by Dems since 2006) delivered the following:

"WASHINGTON (AP) - What is $1.42 trillion? It's more than the total national debt for the first 200 years of the Republic, more than the entire economy of India, almost as much as Canada's, and more than $4,700 for every man, woman and child in the United States.
It's the federal budget deficit for 2009, more than three times the most red ink ever amassed in a single year.
And, some economists warn, unless the government makes hard decisions to cut spending or raise taxes, it could be the seeds of another economic crisis.
Treasury figures released Friday showed that the government spent $46.6 billion more in September than it took in, a month that normally records a surplus. That boosted the shortfall for the full fiscal year ending Sept. 30 to $1.42 trillion. The previous year's deficit was $459 billion.
As a percentage of U.S. economic output, it's the biggest deficit since World War II."

filistro said...

Shiloh said: Nobody thinks he's a teabagger, but he's such a lovable troll ;) we let him think he is ...

Shiloh, he IS lovable, isn't he? I'm actually getting quite fond of him. (Maybe it's just all this rum-laced eggnog... ;-)

shiloh said...

Shots said...

Help me here, because I'm really struggling ...
~~~~~~~~~~


Indeed!

brian said...

Awesome post Nate. Need to do the same for Senate/least valuable.

As a Repub, I appreciate that Snow/Collins are our 2 most valuable senators. Meanwhile, Bennet from Utah needs to go.

Bart DePalma said...

BD:: Maybe 45% of likely voters support our movement, while 56% disapprove of Obama.

filistro said...Gallup's approval/disapproval this morning is 50-44. But hey, what's a measly 12% among friends, eh? ;-)


I pay attention to likely voters, not adults, 60% of whom will not vote next year.

BD: You miss the point of the Tea Party movement. It is a conservative - not a GOP - rebellion half filled with Indis and more than a few conservative Dems.

shiloh posted...

Michael Steele, Dick Armey unite on health care

Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele will join forces with one of the key leaders of the Tea Party movement next week in an effort to put the brakes on the Democratic health care reform bill.


What do you know, the GOP has found a clue and is finally joining the Tea Party rebellion against government health insurance that we started back in April. Welcome to the fight guys.

Charles said... BDP. Are you going to see Sarah Palin at the National Convention 2/6/10?

I am considering attending the national convention to represent our local Tea Party group. Sarah would simply be a welcome bonus.

filistro said...

Shots..

"He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool; shun him."

So long, little buddy.

IdeaMan said...

Woohoo! Nate's back. Keep the math coming, its what differentiates you from the rest of the ranters out there.

Charles said...

BDP:

Didn't mean to imply you would be going JUST to see her. I expect she will give a rousing speech though.

filistro said...

Bart, I don't trust Ras's sample of Republicans since he is consistently an outlier.

The only other pollster who has done an LV screen in December is Battleground, as of 10 days ago. They found Obamaa disapproval at 45%.

Addison said...

Love the analysis! More! More!

My only quibble is that the veneer of objectivity seems to be going out the window. Nate seems to be positioning himself as a trusted advisor to the DNC. Mind you, I still think his analysis is pretty objective, but the language he uses in his write-ups would make a casual observer question his objectivity. Just an observation.

The reason I bring that up is that the Top 25 list, without exception, has PVIs of R+. So what we're really measuring is how successfully an elected REPRESENTATIVE has subverted the will of his district. Aren't we?

Now, I realize that progressives and conservatives alike want to believe "real" people think like them, and the "others" are just outliers. So for many, when they pick up votes for their team, it's ok even if it is someone voting against the will of the people they represent.

However, this hardly seems like a victory for democracy. Someone is "loyal" because they stick with some out-of-touch suits in Washington, without regard to the people that elected them?

On the topic of Parker Griffith, as a constituent of AL-5, I can confirm he is not liked or trusted by conservatives in this district. However, incumbency + $ is going to make him the favorite in the primary.

It's actually a shrewd move on Griffith's part...I don't think he could have gotten re-elected as a Democrat, but he's got a good shot as a Republican. And obviously his voting record shows that this seat was already lost to the conservatives, even when he used the (D).

Charles said...

February 6th was Ronald Reagan's birthday.

Trey said...

I think this analysis is just another way of showing who is "spending" political capital. You don't spend any when you make votes that are in line with the majority of your voters.

Kent said...

Why leave out Kucinich? His votes are just as destructive to the Democratic agenda whether they come from the left or the right. His score would top the negative list by far.

Radical Centrist said...

Note that a couple of the "least valuable" democrats are only marked as such because their districts are very democratic if conservative politically. Case in point here is Artur Davis. Its pretty hard to say that the black population in Alabama is as liberal as in a D+19 district in New York or California. While blacks vote Democratic, that does not make them especially liberal on social issues, for instance. While Davis is hewing to a more conservative record to prepare for his run for governor of Alabama, this trend may explain some of these "least valuable democrats" - if Republicans could win more black votes, then the breakdown would be very different

Charles said...

Addison:

It's not just "a casual observer" any more. Nate's ranting on healthcare, especially the kill-billers, made it completely obvious which side of the aisle he sits in. BTW: as "conservative" as Rep. Griffith (newly-minted R-AL) was, he still voted for Nancy Pelosi as Speaker. Hopefully, he will be able to vote for the next Speaker as well . . .

Mike said...

Re: Comments on "spending political capital" or not representing your districts.

The analysis can also be indicative of reps that are not afraid to LEAD rather than simply follow their constituents.

Benjamin Sacks said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Mathew said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Mathew said...

stupid comment form. or stupid comment form user...

Short version. Absolute voting requirements exist: the McGovern-Sestak-Bishop (GA)-Lewis (GA) amendment language to the Defense Authorization bill. Opposition to Reps. who voted against it is a moral imperative.

I cannot face my wife, children or maker if I did otherwise.

filistro said...

Bart, further to the difference between teabaggers/tea partiers:

I think a useful screen might be their views on Medicare. I believe most teabaggers, especially those over 40 (which most of them seem to be, BTW) would be strongly opposed to the removal of this program, despite their noisy howls about "socialism."

Most tea partiers, OTOH, would remain ideologically opposed to Medicare even if that should redound to their personal detriment.

Would you agree?

filistro said...

Matthew, it's a really stupid comment form.

Now that Nate has signed a two-book deal for a certified bundle, he needs to invest in a comment system that's more reasonable and a lot less cumbersome.

kalliek said...

Sorry no time to read other comments. 3 points to make:

1) This is a REALLY GREAT IDEA, but the measure seems to go haywire in extreme districts, i.e. voting against party in a highly partisan district once is overly weighted. There may be natural inflection points in degree of partisanship beyond which "more" partisan districts differ significantly less than those nearer to zero.

There should also be some accounting for the number of times a legislator votes with the party on major amendments and/or legislation.

2) Taking the idea of comparing legislators in another direction, I'd like to see a measure that compares the political behavior of legislators (voting and otherwise) between states and districts that are heavily gerrymandered with those that aren't. Given the impending census, understanding this heinous practice (and ultimately, federal legislation to limit it) could go a long way toward improving our politics.

3) It's clear that looking at party MVPs is a really useful tool for political insiders. But providing measures of legislator reliability based on "public interest" or even in issue areas (if possible) might ultimately prove more powerful.

Although much of this doesn't come to the floor in the form of separate votes, if it's reliably documented in the press (i.e. with extensive discussion from a legislator) significant legislative efforts (positive or negative) could be used as benchmarks.

3 examples: Bernie Sanders' recent health care amendment that spent $100 million to enlarge the pool of community clinics and primary care providers in all states for which Sanders and Senate leadership would accrue points. Ben Nelson's backroom deal (which would penalize Nelson and Senate leadership). Olympia Snowe's objections to the current Senate bill on the basis that no one yet knows how the costs will break down for individuals or impact small business, particularly those struggling to expand (and hire) in this economy.

Robert said...

Shots,

You're arguing with yourself. Trust me, no one is impressed with the intellect you are displaying. I am, however, getting a laugh out of it.

shiloh said...

Shots said...

Good riddance. I shouldn't be wasting my time responding to someone who is clearly ...

December 23, 2009 2:28 PM

Shots said...

One last chance, filistro,

I'm waiting...

December 23, 2009 2:32 PM

Shots said...

filistro,

December 23, 2009 2:47 PM

Shots said...

Come on, filistro,

December 23, 2009 2:49 PM

Shots said...

So I guess I can't really blame filistro

December 23, 2009 2:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~


filistro has a groupie, my condolences! ;)

There's clueless and then there's bat-shit crazy, obsessive clueless ...

Too funny!

Robert said...

Shots,

Congratulations at defeating me in the contest of extracting most laughter from a blog comment section!

I wonder if you can contribute anything that doesn't contain either an insult or comment about how great you think you are. For someone who thinks they have a superior intellect, you sure seem to have to spend a lot of time reminding others of it's existence. I wonder why that is? ;)

Pragmatus said...

Shots…

Um—I think it’s time to take your shots. Please see Nurse Ratched.

With all the vitriol you are clumsily throwing around in your posts, you’re giving the impression that you are the latest incarnation of Fifi the Mule.

You don’t really want to create that impression, do you? Even if you are Fifi the Mule.

Bart DePalma said...

filistro said... Bart, further to the difference between teabaggers/tea partiers: I think a useful screen might be their views on Medicare. I believe most teabaggers, especially those over 40 (which most of them seem to be, BTW) would be strongly opposed to the removal of this program, despite their noisy howls about "socialism." Most tea partiers, OTOH, would remain ideologically opposed to Medicare even if that should redound to their personal detriment.

Would you agree?


Not really.

To start, the really insidious things about intergenerational ponzi schemes like SS and Medicare is that (1) pulling support from the programs leaves our dependent grandparent or parents out of luck and (2) we all want some return for the tens of thousands in taxes we have sent to Washington. Thus, I doubt there are more than about 2% of the Tea Party folks who would seriously wish to terminate these programs. I do not because my folks are receiving SS and Medicare and I want some return for all the money I have pissed away in taxes rather than in investments, even though I am probably going to be screwed badly coming into the programs at the tail end of the Boomers with the present government maxing out the national credit card. I figure I am working into my 70s and supplementing my income with my investments.

Next, who are these unicorn-like "tea baggers" of yours? We have gone from using the term as your shorthand for racists to racist supporters of Medicare.

shiloh said...

Pragmatus said...

Shots…

Um—I think it’s time to take your shots. Please see Nurse Ratched.

You don’t really want to create that impression, do you? Even if you are Fifi the Mule.
~~~~~~~~~~


hmm, the old copy/paste move ... once upon a time there was a former troll who mentioned that to me in a few posts ...

just sayin'

as it's hard for a tiger to change its stripes, eh

and apologies to Nurse Ratched.

Robert said...

Shots,

I don't attack you because of your ideological background, but rather because you are a conceited ass, possibly with an inferiority complex. You constantly insult others, whether or not they insulted you first, and you often feel the need to inform everyone of your supposedly superior intelligence. I treat you the way I think you deserve to be treated, and if you spoke that way in the room I was in (as opposed to a political blog on the internet), I would treat you the same way. Don't be an ass, and I won't feel inclined to treat you as one.

As to your current complaint about the Reagan quote, A) we've never gotten out of a financial depression by worrying about the defecit, and B) I really don't care.

Maybe if you used your supposedly superior intellect to post without insulting other posters, or constantly reminding us of your supposed superiority, and instead just presented your points and let them stand on their own, I wouldn't take such joy in provoking you. Alternately, you could grow a thicker skin and not respond to my provoking, but I think we've seen how well that worked out (I'm referring to your assault on me based on a typo).

notredame0528 said...

"At the same time, the system can be quite punitive for just one or two votes against the party for a congressman who comes from a sufficiently liberal district. For example, Mike Quigley of IL-5, who replaced Rahm Emanuel in a special election in April, is punished here for a hard-to-explain vote against the Democrats on the jobs bill. Although it's probably not advisable to primary a congressman based on literally just one vote..."

I found this to be a very interesting article and commend you for it. However, while you mention it may not be worthwhile to read too much into just 1 vote, I note that 12 out of 21 (almost 60%) of your entire list of the worst members are on the list for only 1 vote, voting with the party on all others.

While your system is much more accurate than a simple partyline vote tally as you rightly note the differing makeup of the districs, dont you feel this system tends to dramatically weight the impact of a single vote even when 9 of 10 were along party lines?

Charles said...

Nate,

Unfortunately, I've got to seriously disagree with your list of least valuable Congressmen.

You way overly penalize each Rep. based on a single vote or two, which is generally a critical vote for the Congressman's district. For example, there is no way Pete Visclosky could have supported Cap&Trade coming from the biggest steel producing district in the country, and one of the most polluting districts in the country. He supported his unions on this one.

Pelosi had to let the Stupak Amendment pass. For one, the individual Congressmen have strong, personal opinions on the issue (ie, Joe Baca). But many come from overwhelmingly Catholic districts (ie, Kaptur, Reyes). Joe Donnelly represents Notre Dame University's district.

And there is no way you could possibly argue that a Republican representing most of these districts would provide a more liberal vote.

philogratis said...

Yeah, the problem with including the overweighted Stupak vote is that it was part of a grand compromise, which kind of fell apart. The Democratic party has made an explicit commitment not to browbeat pro life Democrats, because there's lots of them. In contrast, the Republicans relentlessly attack pro-life Republicans, and that's one of the things that have cost them in New England and the West Coast.
The deal made with Blue Dogs is that they can go home and tell their constitutents that they voted to save babies. The Stupak vote shouldn't be included as a party-line vote.
Remember that the Stupak passed easily because the Republicans supported it across the board. Once it was a done deal, you can't blaim some Congressmen for taking cover on that vote, although they voted with the party on the other 9.
There's also the assumption that a solid Dem district is automatically a strongly pro-choice district. Don't really know, but there's bound to be regional effects.

karen said...

Nate, as always fascinating stuff.

A point though: how much do these votes COST the Democrats?

For instance we just bought everyone in Nebraska a pony, or some damn thing to get Nelson to vote for cloture. My senators voted for cloture without costing the DNC any ponies.

A few weeks ago Jim Webb had to distance himself from Obama's Copenhagen trip because a lot of the mouthbreathers in that state think Global warming happens when Jesus farts or something.

I'm not sure how you can quantify this, but it makes me wonder about the value vrs cost of these guys.

Amanda said...

A note to many commenters: you cannot assume that "Catholic" means "pro-life." The Catholic Church is certainly very strongly pro-life, but polling data indicates that roughly half of all Catholics are pro-choice. Therefore, you can't necessarily assume that voting for the Stupak amendment would help someone in a heavily Catholic district.

philogratis said...

Another issue I had was why remove no votes that come from opposition from the left? Shouldn't these be primaried from the center to make a more reliable majority? Presumably Kucinich would have ended up on the top of the list of the least valuable congressman.
It seems to me that Nate ran the analysis, realized how much hate mail he would get if he listed Kucinich as the Democrats least valuable congressman. The 10th District of Ohio has a PVI of D+8, which is the same as Visklowsky, who makes it on the list even though he only voted against cap and trade! Kucinich voted against that and 4 other votes.
One place Kucinich did vote with the leadership was on Stupak. Kucinich performed a rather spectacular backflip on abortion rights. After 8 years of voting prolife 90 percent of the time, he flipped in 2003 and has voted prochoice 100 percent of the time.
A little opportunistic, especially as his earlier opposition to abortion was at least consistant with his pacificm and ethical veganism.

shiloh said...

Amanda said...
~~~~~~~~~~


Yes, there are Catholics and cafeteria Catholics, just as there are RINO's and DINO's as it's very hard to find purity of the soul since Mother Teresa passed ...

although BDP will tell you, the teabaggers are totally pure 100% certified conservative yahoos.

but as always, his credibility is dubious. ;)

philogratis said...

Amanda, you are likely to come under more pressure from the pulpit if your district has a lot of catholic churches. Those priests and bishops can drum up opposition against you. I admit the total detachment between church dogma and Catholic's beliefs is pretty strange.

Charles said...

philogratis:

I think that you are forgetting Rep. Kucinich met and married Elizabeth (31 years younger than he) around that same time. Along with her silver-stud tongue piercing, I think that she changed his mind on a lot of things.

brian said...

The "bad Dem" list is kinda worthless since only 2 have rating over -2. One vote stunts them really. OTOH, all the "good Dems" are over +4. Hope the RNC has this list. Good riddance to Gordon.

Charles said...

Is Dr. Howard Dean (and all the Bill Killers) a "good" or "bad" Dem?

Mercurius200 said...

My taste for statistical geekyness has been well satisfied. :)

Matt said...

The analysis is great. The bickering, while amusing, detracts from an otherwise very interesting discussino.

Is anyone gonna clue Shots (and Charles) in on the raison d'etre of the Gridiron Club? No? Well, okay, then; I won't spoil anyone's fun.

LAW said...

Absolutely fascinating and ingenious analysis. This is the stuff that makes 538 such a totally invaluable site - there is zero chance someone on Politico et al. comes up with this.

Charles said...

Different "Charles" posting above.

Matt said...

@Charles:

philogratis:

I think that you are forgetting Rep. Kucinich met and married Elizabeth (31 years younger than he) around that same time. Along with her silver-stud tongue piercing, I think that she changed his mind on a lot of things
.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
If I looked anything like Kucinich, and found someone who looked like his wife, I'd let her change my mind on a lot of issues, too.

Charles said...

Matt:

In 1996, Dennis, the once-marginalized boy mayor of Cleveland, was first elected to the U.S. Congress.

That same year, Elizabeth graduated from HIGH SCHOOL and took a plane to Agra, India - site of the Taj Mahal - where she had signed up to volunteer at one of Mother Teresa's homes for India's poorest children.

They really shouldn't have met, these two people, with oceans and three decades between them. But they did share some things: a desire to work for peace, concern for the environment, a strong spirituality girded by Eastern traditions and - the thing that brought Elizabeth to his office spring of 2003 - a belief that monetary reform can offer a solution to poverty.

Elizabeth arrived in the United States in April, one month before meeting Dennis. She spent part of her first month visiting an Austin, Texas, death-row prisoner with whom she had corresponded. It was her second trip to this country and she was well-traveled and highly educated.

After earning her bachelor's and master's degrees at the University of Kent, she spent 16 months in a rural Tanzanian village, where she lived in a concrete-block, tin-roofed house, and worked as an advocate for regional development.

"It was there, and in India, that I learned that people who our society thinks have nothing, and who live in the poorest conditions, still find so much joy in life," she says.

After she left Tanzania, she volunteered with a British Red Cross refugee unit; earned a certificate in peace studies from Coventry University; and got a job as a fund-raiser for a seafarer's charity in London. Often, her volunteer work took her to the House of Lords. That was where she heard financial analyst Stephen Zarlenga speak about monetary reform.

She was impressed and soon was hired to become Zarlenga's assistant at the Chicago-based American Monetary Institute. It was that work that took her and Zarlenga to Dennis' office.

While Dennis was sure of his attraction at their initial meeting, he didn't know how Elizabeth felt. Several nights later, in his Washington office, he sat at his desk and thought about her. "Basically, I asked for a sign," he says. Seconds later, ping! went his computer, alerting him to an e-mail.

It was from Elizabeth. The first line read, "This has no connection to work." Dennis was ecstatic.

She was forwarding an e-mail from one of her friends that related to the peace legislation he had proposed. He noticed her signature quote at the end: "Knowing love I shall allow all things to come and go, to be as supple as the wind and take everything that comes with great courage. My heart is as open as the sky."

Charles said...

This gave Dennis hope.

The two e-mailed each other regularly. While the e-mails were businesslike, each of them had a deeper agenda: They were attracted to one another. A couple of weeks after their first meeting, while she was in Arizona with her boss for more meetings, she wrote Dennis an e-mail telling him where she was.

"Really? I'm going to be in New Mexico tomorrow," Dennis wrote back.

Elizabeth responded, "So will we!"

Several hours later, Elizabeth went shopping before leaving for New Mexico. She bought an opal ring - her birthstone. For reasons she can't explain, she decided to call it her "Dennis ring."

Elizabeth and her boss met Dennis in Albuquerque, where the congressman invited them to lunch the next day at his friend Shirley MacLaine's house in Santa Fe. While she was at MacLaine's, Elizabeth's phone rang. It was her mother, calling from England.

"Mum, you'll never guess who I'm having lunch with - Shirley MacLaine!" Elizabeth put the actress on the phone.

Julia Massey had read MacLaine's memoir, "Out on a Limb." After reading that book in the 1980s, Massey, who had worked as a secretary in London, decided to train to become a healer. She learned how to provide alternative therapies like massage and aromatherapy to clients with health problems. Eventually, she built a healing center called The Sanctuary next to the family cottage.

"I changed my life - my whole career - because of your book," she told MacLaine.

Later at lunch, the actress, a longtime friend of Dennis, invited Elizabeth and Zarlenga to stay overnight.

"Dennis and I stayed up, sitting by the fire, talking until half past 6 in the morning," Elizabeth recalls. They professed their love for each other; within a few days they decided to marry.

"We realized our life vision was the same, our outlook was the same," Elizabeth says. "It was a leap of faith, but based on a deep knowing."

That Sunday, driving out of Santa Fe with her boss, Elizabeth looked down at the ring she had bought in Arizona. For the first time, she noticed how the stone was inlaid in silver.

The design of the silver was two capital Ks, back to back.

(The Frog and the Princess)

kankan said...

So, was Rahm right or wrong in who he promoted for election. Rahm boinked some progressives our of primaries for some blue dogs who supposedly had a better chance to win.

Nate- would love it if you tell us in the sport of Politics if Rahm or Dean or DNC has been right or wrong about their calls.

Also, as a prgoressive, I think Grayson is worth more than just his blue shift of his district...but another topic.

Charles said...

Shots:

Reagan said that as a JOKE (at the annual Gridiron Dinner), kinda like GWB joked about finding WMD under his desk in the Oval Office. Only you and (maybe) filistro think that Reagan was being serious.

filistro said...

"We realized our life vision was the same, our outlook was the same," Elizabeth says. "It was a leap of faith, but based on a deep knowing."


I wonder if the "deep knowing" would have been the same if Dennis had been, say, a regional manager at WalMart.

I've always thought (from a strictly female POV) that this marriage has to be a classic example of power being a great aphrodisiac.

But maybe that's just me.

BTW... which Charles is which? And are either of you my "lede piece" Charles, who has been MIA for a while?

Charles said...

I am, indeed, the "lede piece" champion!!!

filistro said...

Hi lede-piece Charles, I've missed you.

I know Reagan said that at the Gridiron Dinner. I've always thought the Gridiron is the only chance politicians have to "inadvertently speak the truth" without it being considered a gaffe.

Richard said...

I'm guessing others have mentioned this, but 10 of the 21 "least loyal" democrats voted with their party 9 times out of 10 with their party EXCEPT for the Stupak amendment. Now, there was a lot said (by Stupak and other Conserva-Dems) that if Democrats didn't support this amendment that they'd bring down the entire bill. Noticing how many of them ended up not voting for the bill anyways, that seems to be an exaggerated claim. Also, a couple of these might be well-principled, loyal Democrats who also happen to be pro-lifers.

My query is, if you take out the Stupak amendment - the language of which I don't believe will be in the final bill - who then are the top 20 most unuseful Dems?

Charles said...

I wish that I could say I missed you. Bush's "WMD search" was at the White House Correspondents' Dinner though (the year Colbert knocked BOTH sides out).

Charles said...

Richard:

If the Stupak Amendment language is not in the final bill, it won't pass the House.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/58921

filistro said...

Charles... you didn't miss me?

Well, that hurts my feelings. :-)

Bill said...

I think that it's fairly common that when a congressperson is in a vulnerable district, the leadership will give the member permission to vote the "wrong" way. The member will then be able to go back and campaign on being against whatever s/he voted against.

However, there's no danger that this will affect the outcome of the vote, because the leadership will only give permission if they're sure they've got the votes to pass the measure anyway.

If this happens much, it's likely to affect just the people who wound up on the "least valuable" list, distorting the result.

Ryan said...

So who are the most valuable House Republicans? Senate Dems? Senate Repubs?

jcradin said...

If you can identify the times when a vote by a Representative either procedural, in committee or in subcommittee was decisive that might focus narrow the focus to when a representatives' actions are truly valuable. And than compare that to his district's leaning. IE - voting a bill out of committee may be more important to passage, than voting against when the votes to pass are more than already sufficient. A much longer and harder analysi, maybe impossible, but more accurate assessment of someone's value to their party.

Charles said...

Shots:

I don't care what led up to it. YOU claimed in reply to the Reagan quote: "And your point is....? That Ronald Reagan was as misguided about deficits as Bush and Obama are? I don't disagree with that . . ."

YOUR reply is what I am taking exception to. Ronald Reagan was NOT misguided about deficits.

Charles said...

Shots:

Are you denying that YOU said: "I don't disagree with that . . ."?!

shiloh said...

Two winger trolls arguing about Reagan ~ Priceless!

filistro said...

shiloh... LOL!

Charles said...

shiloh:

If one of the alleged "wingers" is trashing Reagan, I question his/her membership credentials.

Charles said...

Shots:

FDR racked up "deficits" to wage WWII as well. Was he similarly "misguided" in your opinion?

filistro said...

Go get 'em, Charles! I'll hold your coat.

Charles said...

To think I was actually curious to see what was going on here. I'm going back to my Christmas break, guys! Good luck.

filistro said...

Merry Christmas, Charles.

philogratis said...

@Charles
Thanks, that makes more sense with Kucinich. I've seen his wife, and noted that as far as shallow surface features go she is way out of his league (or mine). I noticed a disconnect between his early political career and his presidential campaigns. He was always liberal, but he comes from a rather hardscrabble district and he ran on bread and butter Democratic issues like jobs and infrastructure. He was a lifelong Catholic and supporter of abortion, but it's a heavily Catholic district, and he was a pretty good fit for his district.
I think Kucinich serves a useful purpose in the caucus. He puts down a flag of idealistic liberalism, and provides a representative to many Americans who feel almost completely alienated by the political process. He never strays totally off the reservation, and when asked to give a nice speech for Obama at the convention, he did so. He sure doesn't vote for the Democratic agenda very much! A Republican in that district might vote with the caucus more often.
I wonder why Kucinich was taken off the list since he really is vulnerable to a primary challenge. He won the primary with 52% of the vote against a divided Democratic field, and then beat the Republican with 57% of the vote. That is not very good in a D+8 district in a watershed Democratic year. There's no obvious reason why the single most liberal member of congress should come from the Rustbelt near Cleveland, rather than Eugene Oregon or Ft. Collins, Colorado. His base is distributed across the country, but Kucinich is a long way left of the average voter in his district. He does have impressive fundraising powers, 16 years of incumbenmcy and a strong record for constituent services, and that counts for a lot.
I wonder if Kucinich is going out on a limb with all these no votes. For most of his career the Democrats were in the minority, so his policy differences from the rest of his party were not obvious. As we see in the Republicans today, it's easier to unite in opposition than in support for something. Now Kucinich is voting against half the Democratic platform, and his primary opponent will not have a hard time writing attack ads.
"In a struggling economy Dennis Kucinich joined the Republicans to vote against tax cuts for the middle class, against funding for our schools, and voted to deny 80,000 people in Ohio of affordable healthcare. And he's a damn hippie."

Persuter said...

I suggest you all stand down as well before I utterly destroy you.

Has anyone else seen Grandma's Boy? I'm just imagining the above statement being said by the guy in the Matrix jacket... It's bringing me a little holiday cheer over here, anyway. :P




Wow... I guess that movie wasn't a complete waste of two hours like I said when I watched it.

filistro said...

ooohh.. if the kid is rash enough to pick a fight with Persuter, I'm going to have to pour myself another drink.

This is fun.

shiloh said...

philogratis said...
~~~~~~~~~~


Kucinich as the boy wonder mayor when Cleveland went bankrupt is primarily responsible for the phrase the mistake on the lake.

He was elected to congress solely on name recognition. He compares favorably ;) er notoriously w/Marion Barry.

He's a midget craving to be noticed ~ all hat and no cattle! but his wife is smokin' ...

filistro said...

Persuter, I just realized what it reminded me of. Remember the scene from "True Romance" where Brad Pitt is skinny and naked, wrapped in a quilt, stoned out of his mind, and he mutters "Don't con... ...con... condensend to me, man. I'll f***in' kill ya, man..."

Oh, how I loved that movie.

Damien Sullivan said...

Nate, is there a reason you don't automatically make you data and model code and total results available in these posts, at least as links somewhere? Someone might well wonder how valuable their congressman was, or want to check/replicate your calculations.

WanderMan said...

Nate, I think you just invented a new tool that the progressive movement can use to decide if some one should get a primary challenger.

This is great! This is much more useful than the old rating system for how liberal a congressmember is. This could actually be a major breakthrough in the activist world.

Please do the same analysis for members of the Senate and Governors and keep up the good work!

Thanks for all you do man.

Pragmatus said...

“Shots”…

said—“I suggest you all stand down as well before I utterly destroy you.”

What did I tell everybody? Fifi is back, in a new disguise.

You still got the same laughable “boner723” email address, Feef?

Say hi to your Ma for me. Just shout up the basement stairs…

Hechicera said...

@Bart de Palma

I'm curious where you stand on this branch of the Tea Party

http://www.wnd.com

Certainly some household names post there, Norris, Stossel now, etc. One of my local Reps. Myrick (NC) is a big fan.

And moving further south (to upstate SC where I have family) where are you on this bunch?

http://www.christianexodus.com/

Please read their principles if you happen to be unfamiliar. This group is very influential with Sen. DeMint (SC).

I am curious if you know them, and whether you knew them or not prior to my post, where you feel you are in relation to them on the right?

Christopher said...

Re: Marcy Kaptur - It's a little harsh to label her, a long-time, well-trusted and respected Dem, a "low-value" member of the caucus based on one vote. I think there is good value in your statistical model here, Nate, as so often with your work. But Ms. Kaptur, I think, would be an example of this particular models limits. It probably works best, in this formulation, at the extreme ends of the spectrum, and in any event is no substitute for solid political judgment.

I guarantee you neither Barack Obama nor Nancy Pelosi regards Rep. Kaptur as a "poor return on investment," quite the contrary.

slasher14 said...

What with the sniping back and forth over who's stupid and who's not, I may have skipped, in my disgust, over a post which noted the SIGNIFICANT news that the Tea Party of Alabama was issued a statement that they will NOT support Griffith on the grounds that, as nearly as I can parse it in a few words, he has voted with Nancy Pelosi 75% of the time and therefore cannot be trusted.

NY-23 Lite, maybe? I mean, you had to figure Griffith as an odds on favorite to be elected as a Republican, since he was elected as a Democrat, but now...maybe not.

Mr. Universe said...

Funny. I just happen to be from that district and am there now for the holidays. Nobody here is really surprised. Particularly when Obama killed the European defense shield. Boeing is the big contractor here in Huntsville, Alabama for that program.

Jeff said...

Nate, I think you left out the vote that is far and away, without any close competition, the most important vote cast in 2009: the organizing vote (and vote for Speaker), because that's the vote that made it even possible for all these issues to be brought forth.

That said, I see what you're doing here - kind of the political equivalent of VORP. I don't quite buy it though. It's obviously going to skew exclusively to dems in R+ seats. But I think you have to account for party in judging true value. Take Gwen Moore, for example (my rep). She's a reliable Dem vote in a reliably Dem seat, which according to this method has little value. But what if she were to lose her seat, somehow (via scandal or something), to an R? That would be a huge loss, and therefore she is very valuable. In my eyes, if it would be a huge loss if you lost a seat to the other party, then that current rep is by definition very valuable.

Billy said...

Thanks, Nate. Good stuff here.

Chris Purcell said...

Nate, this is outstanding material. I can't thank you enough for posting such intellectual candy =)

Pragmatus said...

Mr. Universe…

What is the African American constituency in AL-5? If the teabaggers do indeed challenge the GOP, what’s the chance of the AA vote being the determining factor?

Inquiring minds want to know…

(By the way, I’ve seen the “Tea Partyers” referred to as “teabaggers” on all the major news shows, so the name is pretty well pasted-on by now, whether the "partyers" like it or not.)

Joel said...

I'd be interested in seeing this analysis but inverted (i.e. which congressmen from the Republican side would be productive targets in the primaries from a Republican perspective, and which ones would not).

Jack said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Jack said...

In 2010, traitors should pay the price. Let's vote out those who were naughty, and vote back those who were nice.

Matt said...

Back when the great humorist Dave Barry used to work for a living, he'd frequently post outrageous lies, designed to catch the reader by surprise. Stuff like "Prince Charles has a lot of savoir faire (French for 'nose hair')."
Inevitably he'd get a letter from some reader who would chastise him for this inaccuracy--which would give him grist for a future column. Those freebies sometimes made his job look like quite the easy gig.
He called those readers the "humor-impaired." It wasn't that they didn't get the joke; the key to their reaction was that they didn't realize that there had ever been a joke.
So here comes filistro, posting a mildly funny, self-effacing joke from Saint Ronnie. Shots takes it all so seriously, spewing insults as fast as his fingers can type. And the rest of us just sit back and watch, occasionally poking the bear for added amusement.
Thank you, Shots. Merry Christmas, and whatever you do, don't un-bunch your panties. Your high dudgeon has provided great amusement for many.

jdk said...

@Nate

Sometimes it's better to not reveal that you are a political dingbat.

Drop the Stupak Amendment and redo your analysis.

Abortion on demand and public financing of abortions is not the sine qua non of what it means to be Left or Progressive or for Social Justice or to be a Democrat.

If you push out of my Democratic Party, all social justice catholics, then there is no more Democratic Party that can win anything.

If you had medicare for all, you wouldn't need a Stupak Amendment because Medicare does not pay for abortions!

Either you have bought into a deep anti-Catholic strain in America perhaps unconscoiusly or you just don't understand the philosphical and historical underpinnings of Social Justice. Maybe it is both.

Let's recall very clearly that our President said the government should not be subsidizing abortion. "subsidizing" his word.

http://kromkowski.blogspot.com/

Eusebio Dunkle said...

jdk,

Abortion is a legal medical procedure. Why should it not be covered? Let me guess, not even if it's from dark alley rape or the woman otherwise faces certain death?

The pro-life position is simply crazy, especially for people who are known to be, uhh, utilitarian with regard to body counts. This ideology increases unwanted pregnancy, ruins lives, increases poverty, and reduces class mobility. As with the war on terror, drugs, guns, etc. people cling to the war on abortion to the determent of positive results.

Sex education, female empowerment, and decreasing poverty (yeah, those liberal bogeymen) reduce abortions. Gasp, just like education and reducing poverty decrease gun accidents, gun crime, drug use, drug abuse, and radical fundamentalism. Get over it and join the 21st century.

My only complaint is that these corrupt ideologies are not dying fast enough, but I rest easy knowing they eventually will.

jhm said...

I'm sorry if this has been said already, but isn't the reality a bit to dynamical for this model? What I mean is that changing the liberalness of members will change the liberalness of the bills being passed. It seems to this layman that your model assumes the same legislation would be on offer. Also, you use bills that actually passed, so for some members this was a free vote, since the passage was already whipped.

shiloh said...

Once again shots er fifi er shots has taken the bait, but on the bright side he hasn't used the "c" word or threatened to kill everyone like brian. ;)

So Merry Christmas to you and all of the other imbeciles whose gross inability to carry on a coherent conversation or articulate a simple thought without wandering into an entirely different realm of non sequiturs, straw men, gibberish, and other logical fallacies and nonsensical rants gives me great amusement.

I just sit back and watch the pigs wallow in their own filth.

Thanks again! And Merry Christmas!!


Talk about your mixed messages lol

Mr. Universe said...

@Prag

what’s the chance of the AA vote being the determining factor

Haven't lived in AL-5 in over a decade but my son-in-law estimates 1/4 or more of population is AA. Since census is out next year, I'd take that estimate with grain of sand. What is possibly more interesting is the exploding hispanic population.

Both of those demographics tend to be lower income. I have no idea how that affects voter turnout but I suspect that it would bode well for a Democratic challenger if the Republican party fractures. Were I a Democratic challenger, I'd be watching that census data closely to craft message (and learning some Spanish on the side).

Mr. Universe said...

whatever you want to tell yourself that helps you sleep at night.

I don't think any of us is losing any sleep over your self-aggrandizing.

To quote one of our regulars, "one really should stop digging when one is deep in a hole"

Tom Cunningham said...

I think it's wrong to omit "no from the left" from the rankings. Kucinich voted no from the left on the biggest two bills and it is questionable what you can get him to vote for. If this is really "Least Valuable" to the Party, then Kucinich's votes shouldn't be removed.

Rating abortion votes based on party split seems wrong to me - they should be rated on the religious breakdown of the district. Stephen Lynch's Yes vote on Stupak looks cowardly, except when you consider that the district is overwhelmingly Catholic and includes South Boston.

John said...

The "least valuable" list is really problematic - they're almost all Catholic pro-life northern Democrats from white blue-collar districts. Of the least valuable, Doyle, Baca, Ryan, Lipinski, Lynch, Kildee, Kaptur, Reyes, Neal, and Langevin voted against the majority of Democrats only on Stupak. Costa and Kanjorski voted against on Stupak and one other thing.

I don't see how the abortion thing can be seen as being an instance of these people being out of step with their districts. Districts like the ones these people represent are quite Democratic, but often also quite pro-life. The "generic congressman" from these areas probably shouldn't be expected to be anti-Stupak, and thus can't be expected to vote much more Democratically than these congressmen.

benamery21 said...

A little more development of some sensitivity analysis would be useful here. A column with the estimated likelihood of being more conservative than the district with a level of certainty would be great.

For instance, given how conservative their districts are, if JUST ONE of the 10 votes were with the party, both Griffith and Bright fall off this list.

That means which votes were included is critical, unless they NEVER vote with the party. In other words, they only have to vote with the party on about 10% of important issues to be an asset. A sample size of 10 isn't big enough to predict if the predicted future vote is 1/10 or 0/10.

If these votes were randomly selected and were independent events (not, of course) there'd still be a ~62% chance that Bright is more liberal than his district's generic 'critter based on your estimates of PVI probability for those votes. The mean number of votes before one Dem vote is cast by the generic Congress critter is ~22. That's ~32% for Griffith. This says to me that probably it's worth being a little nicer to guys like Griffith. Of course, he's about to find out that his special value to Dems is no value at all to R's since any critter will do in a district that conservative, and none of them have the baggage of switching parties a year after winning office.

Same thing at the other end of the spectrum of districts for these LVP's, as Nate acknowledged. If only one vote was against the party, you don't really know how likely that is to be the pattern or if a larger sample will show a more loyal trend.

Take Lipinski, Lynch, and Kildee for instance. There's still a 31% (+/-) chance they're even more liberal than their districts.

There just aren't many Dems wih voting records so far right we can be sure they are actively harming their district over the expected generic critter. Davis' record is understandable and if you look at his votes in previous years you find he's shifted way right this year for strategic electoral purposes. Barrow I don't know much about but taking his votes at face value it DOES look to me like there's only about a 4% chance that if he were to disappear, an open seat contest would result in someone more conservative. I may have done this calc wrong but basically you know more about the guy because his district is so close to the middle, plus he's farther off base than anybody but Davis.

Piddlesworth said...

Please do an analysis similar to this one for the senate between now and the 2010 elections, preferably sooner rather than later.

Actually, it would be really great if you could update on this sort of analysis for both the house and the senate every few months for both parties. It would really improve the discourse on who should or shouldn't be financially supported, who should or shouldn't be primaried, and who should or shouldn't be the target of liberal ire.

Alternatively, repeating this sort of analysis for policy positions rather than legislation votes would be of value for analyzing new candidates and/or primary challengers, especially with regard to targetting funds.

Mike in Maryland said...

spas4u said...
Interesting you use this quote from the man who was a champion to for a balanced budget amendment and for line item veto:

"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself."
-Ronald Reagan, Gridiron Club annual dinner, March 24, 1984.

The entire deficit at that time was right at $1 Trillion . .
.

Interesting that 'spas4u' didn't do any research when he/she/it made that statement.

On September 30, 1983 (about six months prior to Ray-Gun's comment, the federal debt stood at $1,377,210,000,000.00. Six months after Ray-Gun's comment, the federal debt stood at $1,572,266,000,000.00.

So the federal budget deficit was almost $200 billion in fiscal year 1984, yet Ray-Gun is held as a 'fiscal conservative' because he pushed for 'a balanced budget amendment' and he pushed for a (determined to be unconstitutional) 'line item veto'.

Was FY 1984 an aberration? Let's check the record (according to the US Treasury):

September 30, 1980: $907,701,000,000.00
September 30, 1981: $997,855,000,000.00
September 30, 1982: $1,142,034,000,000.00
September 30, 1983: $1,377,210,000,000.00
September 30, 1984: $1,572,266,000,000.00
September 30, 1985: $1,823,103,000,000.00
September 30, 1986: $2,125,302,616,658.42
September 30, 1987: $2,350,276,890,953.00
September 30, 1988: $2,602,337,712,041.16

Doesn't look like it was an aberration to me.

Mike in Maryland

jdk said...

Darrien Sullivan noted "Nate, is there a reason you don't automatically make you data and model code and total results available in these posts, at least as links somewhere? Someone might well wonder how valuable their congressman was, or want to check/replicate your calculations"

Well noted. Nate didn't even publish the final "model" he used in his pres. election prediction.

Transparency, please. In this example, not only does his pick of ten votes include an anti-catholic bias but he uses a total ad hoc and post hoc data massaging (the liberal "no" rationale) to "cure" the ostensible Kucinich "problem" which would have outed this model as dubious.

It's not the Liberal Party, it's the Democratic Party.

If you don't publish the data and the actual methodology (including the data massage), it makes even an interesting idea such as this have the baggage of persuasive but not necessary true snake oil salemanship.

If you don't really understand the underyling substantive subject (in this case politics) then you can lead yourself and others astray.

T*Nyce said...

jjankechu---

I had precisely the same thought, but I think it's actually Congressional WXRL instead of VORP. You treat each Representative like a closer, then treat each district's baseline like the starter and set-upmen, using it as the measure for likelihood of winning going into the ninth, and then credit the Representative the difference between 1 and that likelihood for each "save," and demerit them for each "blown save," and add it up across a season.

I will second your point though. I too would definitely love to see RoY and "Rolaids Spells Relief" awards (or whatever that one was called) handed out.

brian said...

I would say a rating of +/- less than 2 is insignificant. Therefore, my conclusion:

1) Repubs have a bevvy of potential Dems to go after. Extra vulnerable should be freshmen like Giffords/Grayson.

2) Liberals have only really 2 seats where they should consider primaries.

Would love to see the Senate, where I think even more Dems are "valuable". You've got people like Johnson (SD), Webb, Begich...who basically vote straight liberal and get no flack.
So, inspite of liberal whining, I think Dem leaders have done a great job making people toe the party line, especially in the Senate.

Seth said...

Scott actually voted "aye."

Dopper said...

Parker Griffith defection has only made the GOP more white and Southern. I'm on record of predicting a 26-30 seat GOP pick up in 2010. But What I want to see is where the pick up comes from? If a majority (meaning 13-15) of them come from the Appalachia/Ozarks and the South, I suggest this will only exasperate their "problems" in the 2012 election.

A rally the base strategy works great in low turn out midterms, but if the net effect is that they only become more of a party of NO it will hurt them. When Dems no longer have a filibuster proof majority (I expect about a 5 seat GOP pick up) and the GOP actually has governing responsibilities, the public will expect some degree of compromise (remember Ginrich trying to shut down Government), otherwise they will turn on the party they feel are more unfair.

One last thing polls this far out are just worthless. What the economy does next year is the big thing. Dukakis once has a 17 point lead 5 month before the election. Just as the economy shrunk faster than the "experts" predicted it could recover faster ( a V shaped recovery).

The remaining 60% of the stimulus spending coming out, a tax credit on housing combined with income tax return could spur housing, 1.5 million temporary census jobs (that is not a typo), etc. If there is large drop in unemployment even if it's high, the GOP will gain near the low end of estimates. Incumbency is a powerful thing, unless we see a wave of retirements I don't expect to see any pickup beyond the 5 Sen/30 House level. The GOP really doesn't have any great opportunities outside of the South & Border states. Trading upstate NY for Alabama doesn't help them much.

chgoblue said...

Blogger Shots said...

There's never a bad time to worry about the deficit. Good times or bad, this is something we should pay close attention to.

* I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself.
-Ronald Reagan, Gridiron Club annual dinner, March 24, 1984


Don't forget this tidbit...

Vice-President Dick Cheney famously told former Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill, that "deficits don't matter"

Correction, they only matter when the Democrats are in power.

Nathan said...

Fascinating. Any chance of doing something similar with Republicans?