On the front page of Politico this morning, a message of warning to congressional Republicans:
The gist of the article was as follows -- as the Republican party has pushed out moderates, it has tended to appear more hostile to women candidates and congresswomen. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) was quoted as saying that the GOP "is a party that doesn’t respect women, a party that doesn’t believe women are equal to men," while former Republican conference chair Deborah Pryce bemoaned the loss of moderates in general -- many, she maintained, being women.
The article cites the major difference in proportion between Republican and Democratic women, with women making up nearly 23 percent of the Democratic caucus in the House of Representatives, while less than ten percent of Republican congresspeople are women. In the U.S. Senate, the proportions are just about the same.
However, truth be told, the problem identified in the Politico article is quite a bit broader than simply the GOP's turn to the right in recent years.
The US trails behind OECD allies other than Japan and Turkey, often by a significant margin.
However, when we compare the Republican Party with other conservative parties and coalitions in the OECD DAC (wealthiest democracies in Europe, North America and Japan) -- the case studies are bolded above -- there is a fascinating result.
Let's start with Sweden, the highest OECD country on the list.
Both the governing centre-right coalition in Sweden, led by the Moderate party, and the left side of Sweden's political spectrum have extremely high representation by women in the Parliament. The range is fairly high, with the farthest left party ("the Left") having more women than men, while the conservative Centre party has just 38 percent women.
In Germany's Bundestag (using 2005 data, since current data on gender and party was hard to come by), again the break between left and right is quite significant, with a 17 point gap separating the two coalitions, though at this time the government was run by a grand coalition between the SPD and CDU/CSU.
Japan's Diet reflects the recent strength of the Democratic Party of Japan, which just months ago thrashed the traditionally powerful Liberal Democratic Party. The rather low percentages of women in both camps reflect Japan's low position on the global chart -- 97th overall.
In order to compare apples to apples in this analysis, the real question is how a party fares within its own political system, as compared to other parties within their systems. So, for example, comparing U.S. Republicans to the Swedish Liberal Party or the Moderates would tell us more about the difference between Sweden and the U.S. rather than how close each party is to the center of their electorate.
Comparing U.S. Republicans to U.S. Democrats, it turns out that Republicans (the right of the U.S. in this model) are by far the lowest in terms of proportional representation of women legislators within their political system, as compared to other conservative parties and coalitions
In other words, as a proportion of the Democrat's percentage, the Republican Party has the lowest percentage of women legislators, as compared to the shares of the conservatives in the other three countries. In fact, as the percentage of women parliamentarians in Germany rose in the 2009 election (from 31.8 percent to 32.8 percent, with 9 new women) in an election with a victory from the center-right, the gap is likely even larger than this chart suggests.
The U.S. political right, namely Republicans, has a long way to go to modernize and moderate towards the center of the American political spectrum on gender issues, something we have know for quite some time. A turn towards a hard conservative line since 2006 has only amplified the gap. Perhaps the rising influence of moderate Republican women like Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, signals the importance of this change for the future of the party, but no such high profile individuals have yet been spotted on the House side. Indeed, the flogging of Dede Scozzafova in NY-23 indicates that those who might want to step into this role could be quickly pushed out by conservative activists.
---
* A star signifies that a party is in the majority or in the governing coalition
Renard Sexton is FiveThirtyEight's international columnist and is based in Geneva, Switzerland. He can be contacted at sexton538@gmail.com
11.09.2009
Republicans Far Behind on Women Legislators
@ 12:30 PM
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345 comments
Boooooring!!!
I'm sure we'll hear the fury of PUMA soon as they seek justice. Oh wait, they only attack Democrats. Nevermind.......
Perhaps the rising influence of moderate Republican women like Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, signals the importance of this change for the future of the party
Well, maybe.... but when a "moderate" Republic like Pawlenty has to throw Olympia Snowe under the bus in his quest for the nomination, it doesn't look all that hopeful, does it?
I can't help wondering if the electoral system plays a part in the differences seen between different countries. Possibly it's easier for a woman to get elected in a PR system than it is in a first past the post one.
Moderate Republican
WV... indsheba: Joe Lieberman's sexual fantasy
:rolleyes: DNFTT, please, guys.
To me, I do think this has more to do with conservative-moderate than a specific animus towards women in the Republican Party. I think the most obvious example of this would be picking Sarah Palin for the VP spot rather than a much more experienced moderate like Kay Bailey Hutchison, Christine Whitman, or Linda Lingle. (Although it's totally possible that some or all of them were asked and refused.)
I don't know if Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe are experiencing "rising influence", at least within the REPUBLICAN party. I mean, sure, they've got a lot of influence with the Democrats, but I would guess that both are going to have fairly serious conservative challenges.
Muley... you're bored by this issue?
Maybe I'm wrong about you.
Damn.
:rolleyes: DNFTT, please, guys.
You aren't even capable of making a post that doesn't at least reference me, are you? Pathetic.
But I expect as much from someone who is confused as to whether or not compulsory military service is an indicator of the level of freedom of a citizenry.
Muley... you're bored by this issue?
Meh, just didn't find anything in this particular post that floated my boat. Not that the topic at large isn't interesting to ponder.
No, Persuter, Gov. Pawlenty was reportedly McCain's second choice for VP spot. I think if Gov. Palin runs and wins the GOP nomination next time around, this "Republican party is hostile to women candidates" meme will fall by the wayside quickly.
I've been called a "troll" too (I think it's used mainly when they have no substantive answer to your argument).
Persuter... Republicans are massively conflicted about women in politics. Sure, it's good for the national vote and all, BUT...
...many Republican women are ambivalent about their own gender having a high profile, because they have been raised to honestly believe men should be in charge and women should keep silent both in the church and in the public square.
...Republican men, OTOH, seem to look on their women in politics as just another species of sex toy. One of the many, many things I find grossly offensive over at Happy Freeperville is their "rule" which requires that flattering pictures of their female politicians and commentators be posted whenever they are mentioned. You should see the Palin spreads! I'm sure lots of those lonely big-bellied good ol' boys have them mounted on the bathroom wall.
(Yuck... I already regret that image I just evoked.)
I think if Gov. Palin runs and wins the GOP nomination next time around, this "Republican party is hostile to women candidates" meme will fall by the wayside quickly.
Mmm... I fail to see how that follows in the slightest - she was already wildly popular among the Republican base as VP candidate. Clearly they are not hostile to her as a candidate.
But for a party not to be hostile to women candidates, you have to find more than one example. :P Like I said, I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that women tend more moderate in their political opinions, at least those in the political arena. But Sarah Palin doesn't prove anything one way or the other.
Great post Mr. Sexton, your best so far!
As for Republicans, the pick of Sarah Palin (the idiotic beauty queen) over the intelligent, seasoned and deserving Kay Bailey Hutchinson shows the place Republican men think Republican women should be. I was watching CNN when Ms. Hutchinson had to respond to Mr. McCain choice of a mistress instead of a vP candidate...she was showcked as were we all. Shame on McCain, shame on Republicans for being the racist, mysoginisitc party of the south.
I think the political system exacerbates the differences in women representation as opposed to other countries. Here, it takes much more money to win a race, and traditionally men have more money than women. Hence more men are nominated. In most parliamentary systems the nomination process is controlled by the party and money is given equally (in most countries there are very strict caps on what can be spent in an election). So I would predict as the gap in earnings between women and men close, you will start to see more women in US politics and the gap to other nations will close.
I suspect the gap between left and right parties observed here is just that women generally prefer leftist parties, hence there is a greater pool to choose from to begin with.
Persuter:
Palin-Bachmann 2012!!!
Hardly surprising considering how the Left and the MSM (redundant, I know) demonizes and attempts to destroy any woman on the Right who dares to speak her mind and/or seek political office.
The Left in America keeps telling Right-minded women that their place is in the home, and to sit down and shut up.
And, apparently it's working.
Congratulations, Lefties.
Just more evidence that the Republican Party is still busily digging its way to irrelevancy.
It's interesting to see some of the less extreme elements (Gingrich, Politico) finally figuring out what's going on.
As the saying goes, when you're in a hole, stop digging. Unfortunately for the Repubs, first you have to admit you're in a hole....
There seems to be a light negative correlation between the level of right-wing violence as a feature of a nation's politics and the presence of female representatives as a feature of a nation's politics. Obviously there are other factors at work as well, but perhaps legitimizing/turning-a-blind-eye to political violence the way Americans and Japanese do discourages women in some way?
Bradford:
Obviously, John McCain has never had sex with Sarah Palin. Your post actually implies "hostility" toward women who work their way up the ladder.
Yaramah Z:
I couldn't care less how socialist countries select their political candidates.
This would appear to show that in America, women's representation in the Democratic party is execrable. And in the Republican party it is utterly inexcuseable.
It's interesting that commenters here look for explanations that take the categorical moral depravity of the Republican Party as a starting assumption. Can we not choose a simpler assumption?
Democrats (broadly speaking) believe that phenotype diversity is important in organisations, and that it is important enough to justify government intervention in some cases. Republicans (broadly speaking) believe the opposite.
Given a low number of female legislators due to institutional factors like the recency of equal suffrage, we'd expect the Democratic Party and its members to be more eager to take measures to increase the participation of women qua women in their organisation than the Republican Party and its members. If we started with a tabula rasa, say 50% participation by women in 1900, then yes, the low number of female GOP politicians would be proof of something bigger. But we don't start with a tabula rasa and female participation was 0%.
Chris Of Rights:
Spot on! Ironic how "hostile" these commenters are against WOMEN . . .
Also, Renard, your article is contradictory. Japan RIGHT has 8% participation by women, USA RIGHT has 10% participation, yet you say that "Republicans ... are by far the lowest in terms of PR of women legislators".
I was watching CNN when Ms. Hutchinson had to respond to Mr. McCain choice of a mistress instead of a vP candidate...she was showcked as were we all.
Wait... what? I'm confused. Who was a "mistress"?
Republican men, OTOH, seem to look on their women in politics as just another species of sex toy. One of the many, many things I find grossly offensive over at Happy Freeperville is their "rule" which requires that flattering pictures of their female politicians and commentators be posted
I think that sort of sexism is absolutely endemic to the society. Compare with incessant mentions of Hilary's "cankles" and other discussion of her looks, even on mainstream media. Indeed, note the "beauty queen" comment about Palin. Women of either party, IMO, have a way tougher road to office.
Look at the obsession over Michelle Obama's bare arms.
Persuter:
I believe that the implication is that McCain has had (or wanted to have) sex with Palin. That was the only reason he selected her. So much for "GOP hostility" against women candidates.
@Chris of Rights:
You claim that the "left" and the mainstream media are identical. Try to prove this.
You claim that the mainstream media does its best to tear down any credible female candidate that chooses to speak up. Again, good luck proving this.
Charles:
Most (if not all) of these countries aren't socialist, but merely different forms of democracy. I actually think it is highly relevant here, especially in a comparison of female members of congress between countries. These differences in nominating processes can account for alot of the discrepancy between the US numbers and those in other countries. When you take money out of the equation, it is far easier for a women to get elected. As men still earn more than women, especially at the high end (the amounts needed to fund campaigns here) there is much less opportunity for women to get elected here compared to other countries.
@Charles
Who made the claim that McCain's libido made him decide to select Palin? It seems more likely to be a calculated decision to appeal to the conservative base (God, guns, gays).
(All this assumes that selecting someone as a running mate is an effective way to get said person in the sack. Did this ever work in the past? Does this explain, for instance, the bizarre selection of J Danforth Quayle in 1988? Evidence please...)
DGA:
When did Katie Couric ask Obama what newspapers he's read?
Q: Who made the claim that McCain's libido made him decide to select Palin?
A: Bradford at 1:04 PM.
Most (if not all) of these countries aren't socialist, but merely different forms of democracy.
One of the best lines of spin I've seen in quite a while.
Along the lines of,
"That isn't a man-eating lion. It's just a slightly larger version out of many types of cats."
A useful index to how the men in political party honestly view women... how do extremist men refer to the women in their own party who displease them?
Over at FR, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins are regularly called skanks, hags, bitches, sluts, pigs, etc.
I don't see any of the extreme lefties over here saying things like about Blanche Lincoln and Mary Landrieu, no matter how annoyed they might be.
Mule Rider:
20 years since the Berlin Walls falls and suddenly everyone forgets that the SOVIET UNION was technically a form of "democracy" / Republic too.
Lots of Partisan disagreement here.
Lets start with the obvious conclusion that women tend to be more liberal than men. So, it makes sense there would be more Dem women than GOP Women in the Congress.
Then you can add on the particular vilification some GOP women get from the Media. Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, for example.
In addition, in, for example the 109th Congress, the GOP % of Women was actually HIGHER than it is now, for various reasons, none of which were a "more conservative man beating the woman in the primary"
Spitzer resigned! Edwards didn't have anything to resign from whereas Vitters, Sanford, Ensign, Larry Craig ;) etc. didn't.
I have sinned a great sin oh lord! please forgive me! ;)
There are hypocritical family value politicians and then there are Republicans ...
Yes Virginia, historically, Reps have a problem w/women, African/Americans, Hispanics, Asians, young voters, the highly educated, moderate independents as the Dems controlled congress from 1954 to 1994 and took back control of congress in 2006 after Dem scandal/corruption and 9/11 helped the Reps gain control for a fleeting period.
And obviously palin, being totally unqualified as even governor of Alaska as her resignation indicated, was a McCain gimmick to try and win over Hillary supporters which backfired on him when palin had to open her mouth and talk er answer mundane questions ...
carry on
palin/bachmann 2102!
filistro:
Maybe not over here, but have you seen them trashed at DemocraticUnderground? Now, what do the extreme lefties over here call Sen. Lieberman (I-CT)?
OBVIOUSLY, Obama, being totally unqualified as even Senator as his resignation indicated . . .
Charles... (shhhh... keep this under your hat)
...but Sen Lieberman is NOT A GIRL.
I've made this post in a previous thread, but it bears repeating.
I don't think Repubs are hostile to women in office per se, but rather the base is pathologically afraid of intelligent women "taking the place" of men (much as they reference needing to "take America back" from African Americans, of keeping "traditional marriage" away from homosexuals, etc).
That is in part why women like Palin, Blackburn, and Bachmann rise so fast in the Republican base hierarchy--they position themselves as simple-minded womenfolk (which in my opinion they certainly are NOT) who blithely reinforce the "traditional" role of men and women in politics, so as not to threaten the male-dominated status quo by expressing independent thought.
It's no coincidence that Phyllis Schlaffley was one of the first women to gain acceptance in the modern Republican party.
And the base loves them when they act like parrots of the party orthodoxy.
At the Republican elite level, it may be different. We've seen many intelligent Republican women hold APPOINTED offices (O'Connor, Rice, Noonan, Kirkpatrick, etc), but I would think that the RNC and campaign affiliates would be reluctant to run such women as candidates--it would turn off their base.
That being said, while the Dems may be better about supporting intelligent women, 22.9% representation in Congress is a f***ing joke. If we hear this sort of criticism coming from the Democratic establishment, it's hypocrisy.
I know. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's fine.
Jacob:
Phyllis Schlafly (A.B. Phi Beta Kappa from Washington University, in St. Louis at age 19, Master of Arts degree, in Government, from Radcliffe College, in Cambridge, and J.D. from Washington University Law School) was one of the first women to gain acceptance in the modern Republican party because she was a useful idiot?!
LOL!!!
Jacob,
"Parrots of the party orthodoxy"??
And the Democrats don't do the same?
Show me a Pro-Life female supporter in the democratic party.
Charles, do we need to have our little talk about sulking again?
I said you can judge a party's sexist attitudes by how its extremists refer to its own women when they stray off the reservation.
You said yeah, but look how mean the lefties are to Lieberman.
I pointed out that Lieberman is not a woman.
You complained I'm refusing to answer you again.
Now... do you see why I don't like to answer you?
(Remediation is Hard Work...)
And Charles,
Whoever implied that Social Democrats are not socialists perhaps misspoke...
But they do indeed embrace another form of democracy, while the Soviet union was very obviously undemocratic.
Are you really suggesting that countries like Spain, Japan, Norway, Iceland, and Greece are less democratic or open because of their freely-elected social democratic governments? Or that Sweden, France, Germany, or Italy are less free or democratic because the major minority parties are social democrats? If anything, Japan's election of the DPJ opened up its democracy to historic levels.
To try to equate these democratic systems to Soviet Russia in terms of openness by the word socialism is just patently dishonest. I hope you realize that, because everyone else here does.
Charges, the party of No! has made name calling/scorched earth political tactics a cottage industry the past 40/50 years, eh ~ ie Ailes/Atwater/Rove.
A winger discussing name calling is too funny!
take care, blessings
America, love it or leave it ~ you're either w/us or against us ~ freedom fries ;)
btw, sorry wingers, liberals never leave :) whereas the '06 and '08 elections put many conservative trolls into fetus position hibernation ;)
carry on
filistro:
Yes, I see why you don't like to answer my questions. No, you don't need to talk to me ever again.
Charles said...
OBVIOUSLY, Obama, being totally unqualified as even Senator as his resignation indicated . . .
Sweetie pie, is that the best comeback 'ya got ?!? really ...
btw, palin is currently going rogue lol whereas Obama is the 44th President of the United States of America!
'nuf said!
take care, blessings
Pat,
Bob Casey Jr.
Spoke at the convention. My senator. He's a good guy.
No I have no doubt that Schlafly is pretty intelligent, as are Palin and Bachmann in my opinion.
Schlafly gained currency with the far right by trumpeting the notion that it's OK (even desirable) to oppress other women, and gave them the benefit of putting a woman at the forefront of the misogynist movement.
@Pat
Numerous powerful women like Pelosi, Clinton, Boxer, Feinstein, etc are elevated in the Democratic caucus and we expect them to think for themselves. I could criticize the actions of any one of those women but I still don't expect them to parrot all my beliefs, and all have flown in the face of the Democratic party before.
But as to your single-issue point, no, I don't think many women who oppose reproductive choice are particularly attracted to the Democratic party. Although we have a few (such as Rep Dahlkemper) whom we are happy to have with us on other issues.
wartank777... (shhhh... keep this under your hat)
...but Bob Casey Jr. is NOT A GIRL.
Charles writes:
DGA:
When did Katie Couric ask Obama what newspapers he's read?
I'm trying to imagine what sort of world one would have to live in in which that question would be regarded as a dastardly "trick" question which is almost impossible to answer.
Charles, I can guarantee that Obama would have been utterly unfazed by that question. I can equally guarantee that John McCain would have been utterly unfazed by that question. There are only a tiny, tiny sub-handful of politicians of any party in any country that I can imagine not having a ready answer to that question.
And even if I think of that genuinely intellectually-challenged sub-handful, I find it hard to imagine any of them coming up with quite such a fabulously absurd and inept answer as "All of 'em."
yoink:
Unless that's the truth.
Charles, the intellectual, resorting to/attempting snark ;) very sad indeed lol
hmm, no faux source material today to back-up your wingnuttery ...
take care, blessings
Charles writes:
yoink:
Unless that's the truth.
Well, that answer makes it pretty clear why you empathize so strongly with Palin.
yoink:
You don't think that it's even possible that she read summaries of all newspapers put in front of her (just like Obama does every day)? Please see Jacob, above, who thinks that Palin is actually very intelligent. I think she beat Biden in their debate, so what does that say about HIM?!
@Charles,
There are well over 10,000 newspapers in circulation worldwide. No, "all of them" is not an acceptable answer.
It reminds me of back in 2000 when Bush was asked in an interview to name the leaders of India, Pakistan, Indonesia, and couldn't even begin--to name the leaders of 3 of the 6 largest nations in the world!
Of course his spin machine denounced it as a "trick question" then too.
And Charles, I think Biden won that debate by displaying a modicum of intelligence. What does that say? It's opinion.
Palin is not dumb; I'm suggesting that she plays dumb because that's what her base wants.
Her persistent confusion in answering even the most basic questions may well be real or it may be affected, but that doesn't necessarily reflect on her intelligence (although it does call into question her ability to be President).
Jacob:
Hopefully, there will be many fewer newspapers in print come 2012. I only know the leader's name of Pakistan FWIW. And, notwithstanding the fact that knowing their leaders' names is irrelevant, I am REALLY suggesting that countries like Spain, Japan, Norway, Iceland, and Greece are less democratic or open or FREE because of their social democratic governments. As you are no doubt aware, the people of Iraq "freely" elected Saddam Hussein many times. While the KGB had its ways, the people of USSR "freely" elected their leaders too. It's along the same exact spectrum, even though I didn't equate these democratic systems to the Soviet Union specifically.
Maine's two ladies would be wise to leave the Republican party and vote for health care reform.
Josh:
Luckily, Lieberman and a few moderate Democrats WILL vote against cloture.
Charles, you may not understand the definition of "free election" but that does not change it in common usage.
A free nation is not one where the right wing wins every election (by that logic Egypt is pretty free, right? Russia since 1990 is free, I guess?)
Saddam Hussein rigged every election, so did the Politburo of the USSR. So did Slobodan Milosevic, and none of them were liberals btw. That is an entirely different spectrum.
If you really think that Hatoyama, Papandreou, Zapatero et al rigged their elections then provide evidence (especially since they all won AGAINST a ruling conservative coalition that controlled the reigns of government).
And a President not knowing who is in charge of such important countries is pretty scary.
The fact that you can't tell a democracy from a totalitarian puppet government unless the former uses Conservative rhetoric and the latter uses the word "socialist" is also pretty scary.
Haha. Oh come on now. This is just funny.
Look at the very Politico webpage you are citing for this write-up. Instead of focusing on the Politico headline, "The GOP's women problem" - maybe the Democrats ought to focus on the links to election results of VA and NJ just above it. Women sure voted for McDonnell and Christie without much of a problem.
Seriously I don't get this. Does it give Democrats smug satisfaction when they proclaim in a whiny voice how much more inclusive they are to women?
Instead of worrying about the GOP it would serve you lefties well to focus on which Democrats are going to bite the big one at the ballot box next year.
Palin is pretty dumb, at least politically. Her answers to a huge variety of questions (way more so than any other politician I've seen interviewed) were useless...
"I can see Russia from my house"....ok, that was Tina Fey but I think it perfectly encapsulates her. Go back and watch her Couric interviews again, she's a bit dim.
And I find it hard to believe that someone who frequently posts in support of the oppression of homosexuals and questioning the nationality of black leaders really understands the meaning of free society anyway.
Charles, it's ok to admit that like National Review's Rich Lowry:
I'm sure I'm not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, she's got it.
Yea Charles, when ms. going rogue winked at you it was all over but the shouting, eh.
You bet'cha! ...
btw, Lowry's sexist journalistic integrity is off the charts, eh.
Happy GOPer:
At least our party is more inclusive of unborn children, REGARDLESS of their sex.
Unless that's the truth.
Except that it is patently not the truth. She did not read "all" the magazines and newspapers. So if it's NOT the truth, what then?
I am REALLY suggesting that countries like Spain, Japan, Norway, Iceland, and Greece are less democratic or open or FREE because of their social democratic governments. As you are no doubt aware, the people of Iraq "freely" elected Saddam Hussein many times. While the KGB had its ways, the people of USSR "freely" elected their leaders too. It's along the same exact spectrum, even though I didn't equate these democratic systems to the Soviet Union specifically.
You are most certainly specifically equating them with the Soviet Union. You can't just say you're not. The elections in Iraq and the USSR were not free - in both cases they had only candidates selected by the ruling party, who had originally taken power via violent coup, and were openly willing to silence any political dissidence whatsoever. Even Iran's elections are more free than they were. This is qualitatively different than ACTUALLY freely elected socialist-leaning governments like the ones you refer to.
The people of Spain deliberately and freely voted in a socialist party. It did not occur as the result of a violent coup as in Iraq or the USSR. To attempt to conflate the two solely based on the economic policies of the two governments is absolutely ludicrous. It is no more reasonable than the comparisons of Bush with Hitler.
Peter Wolf:
Maybe "God Damn America" perfectly encapsulates the Obamas?
Persuter:
If it's NOT the truth, then she is a liar. Democrats have BTW equated Bush with Hitler.
An increasingly desperate Charles writes:
You don't think that it's even possible that she read summaries of all newspapers put in front of her (just like Obama does every day)?
Here's the actual exchange--in all it's dastardly ingenuity:
COURIC: And when it comes to establishing your world view, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this — to stay informed and to understand the world?
PALIN: I’ve read most of them again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media —
COURIC: But what ones specifically? I’m curious.
PALIN: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me over all these years.
COURIC: Can you name any of them?
PALIN: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news.
I suppose it is possible that the Governor of Alaska is given news digests by his or her staff every morning, but it is quite clear that that is not what Couric is asking. She is asking which newspapers/magazines Palin particularly seeks out in order to help her form her understanding of national and world affairs. I can think of only two possible reasons for the spectacular fatuousness of her answer: 1) a true answer to the question would have included conservative bugbears like the New York Times, and she didn't want to tarnish her red-meat-conservative image by admitting to such heretical actions, so her mind went blank (which means she's a hypocrite and incredibly bad at thinking on her feet) or 2) she was genuinely incapable of naming two or three leading newspapers/journals which would pass muster as respectably solid and/or ideologically sound for a conservative audience.
Neither of those options is particularly appealing in a prospective Vice Presidential candidate--let alone a Presidential one.
Charles said...
Peter Wolf:
Maybe "God Damn America" perfectly encapsulates the Obamas?
~~~~~~~~~~
More Republican name calling ...
yoink:
I would still vote for her.
If it's NOT the truth, then she is a liar.
OK, so she is clearly a liar.
Democrats have BTW equated Bush with Hitler.
Hence my specific reference to "the comparisons of Bush with Hitler". Presumably you do not believe they are reasonable. Your comparison of Spain's elections with Iraq's elections is similarly totally unreasonable.
You seem to be posting just to make it seem like you've responded. Remember, there's three important steps here - read, COMPREHEND, post.
Peter Wolf:
Do you have an answer to my question?
Persuter:
I said Spain is ALONG THE SAME SPECTRUM but specifically NOT the same as Iraq.
Charles said...
Persuter:
If it's NOT the truth, then she is a liar. Democrats have BTW equated Bush with Hitler.
~~~~~~~~~~
Reps have equated Obama w/Satan, the Anti-Christ, The Devil Incarnate, Communists, Marxists, Islamo-Fascists, terrorist Arabs and Muslims, Osama Obama and yes, the Nazis and Hitler, etc.
and yes Virginia, this was all before Obama was elected president ...
take care, blessings
again, a conservative talking about political name calling, oh the irony/hypocrisy!
@Charles
Peter Wolf:
Do you have an answer to my question?
:Maybe "God Damn America" perfectly encapsulates the Obamas?
Oh, sorry. Thought you'd have realised by now how ridiculous your question was.
1)Was Tiny Fey parodying something that Palin had actually said
2)Was a minister talking independently of anyone, and whose statement was expressly repudiated by Obama.
Realised the ridiculousness yet?
I (clearly) disagree that Gov. Palin is a liar too.
It should be amusing to hear the Dems criticize the GOP for being unwelcoming to women as Sarah Palin campaigns across the nation for GOP House candidates with crowds jammed full of admiring women while the Dems call Sarah names like "Caribou Barbie" and criticize her wardrobe spending.
Peter Wolf:
I will be happy to answer your question to me just as soon as you answer mine whether "God Damn America" perfectly encapsulates the Obamas. I think it does BTW whether Rev. Wright meant to disclose that or not.
anyway Charles, anyone who considers Sweden to have a goernment along the lines of the Soviet Union is clearly nuts. Have you even MET any Swedes and asked them about their society?
Bart DePalma:
You ain't heard nothing until her book tour starts next week. They are already attacking OPRAH for even having Palin on her show. The knives are out.
Peter Wolf:
Does it perfectly encapsulates Obama or not?
After pulling an end-around on Diedra Scozzafava and threatening Olympia Snowe with retribution for her pro-health reform vote, electing paleo-conservative sexist Bob McDonnell to the governorship of Virginia, and then pushing an anti-women's reproductive rights amendment to try to derail the House health bill, the GOP has been batting ZERO when it comes to women's issues. Are Republican women misogynist too?
After pulling an end-around on Diedra Scozzafava and threatening Olympia Snowe with retribution for her pro-health reform vote, electing paleo-conservative sexist Bob McDonnell to the governorship of Virginia, and then pushing an anti-women's reproductive rights amendment to try to derail the House health bill, the GOP has been batting ZERO when it comes to women's issues.
Says YOU. Good thing you're just a wacko liberal nutcase because the actual WOMEN voters of Virginia clearly think that Bob McDonnell cares about issues important to them. Because, you know, if they didn't then they wouldn't have voted fro him.
Interesting post, but am I the only one thrown off by the reversed coloring scheme?
Chris:
Unborn children are, statistically, more females than males. As I already said, Palin-Bachmann 2012 will easily take care of your latest meme. Nice try though.
@Charles
of course it doesn't you bloody nutter...
laters
Nate:
The higher proportion of female representation in parliamentary systems was generally achieved through party quotas and has nothing to do with campaigning for votes on leftist platforms in general or feminist platforms in particular. Candidates are chosen by the party in parliamentary systems rather than running on their own for a party nomination as in America (with exceptions like NY-23 in a special election).
In America, female voters enjoy a solid majority and can elect 100% female representation if they so choose. They apparently do not.
Charles said...
I (clearly) disagree that Gov. Palin is a liar too.
~~~~~~~~~~
She was for the bridge to nowhere, before she was against it. Sooo, not only a liar, but a flip/flopper as well ;)
btw, she swore to uphold the constitution of Alaska and then she quit! ...
As Robin Williams said in Good Morning, Vietnam ~ This will not look good on a resumé!
carry on
Kathy Dahlkemper is a member of Democrats for life from Pennsylvania 3rd district (basically Erie) I was going to list more but then I would be feeding trolls.
Bart, you clearly didn't grasp the significance of Palin's wardrobe issue.
Usually whenever a political meme gets blown out of all proportion as the warbdrobe thingie did, it's because it contains at least a germ of truth and relevance.
The Great Palin Wardrobe meme was relevant because it reinforced a feeling already generally abroad in the land... that Palin was not a serious candidate at all, but more like a Stepford woman who had been constructed, packaged, programmed and trotted out solely to energize right-wing voters.
(Real women, after all, buy their own clothes. )
And as such, it was a spectacularly successful meme. One of the best ever.
Charles…
You have painted yourself into a corner defending Sarah Palin. The media did not destroy her—she self-destructed, and her implosion carried her running mate down with her.
Sarah Palin is a self-centered, opportunistic, incurious person of limited attention span and middling intelligence. Defending her by slamming the outlets by which she herself demonstrated her lack of preparedness for high office is absurd, although it’s kinda the only approach you’ve got, isn’t it?
Bart De Palma:
Keep in mind that the FEC cleared the campaign of any wrong-doing re: Wardrobe-gate.
Peter Wolf:
Thanks for finally answering. Why was that like pulling teeth?! We (clearly) disagree, so I don't think that my question was ridiculous. Now to answer your latest question: I have met Swedes and spoken to them about their government and, in particular, healthcare system.
During most of the post-WWII era, their country was governed by the Swedish Social Democratic Party (in Swedish: Socialdemokraterna). Social Democrats imposed big unions, especially Swedish Trade Union Confederation. Carl XVI Gustaf has been Sweden's king and head of state since 1973 (happy, Jacob?). While NOT the Soviet Union (yet), Sweden is along the same spectrum. See you later.
Pragmatus:
No, I haven't "painted" myself into a corner, and it's not my only approach, but she is clearly the most popular Republican currently, if that's what you are asking.
@ Charles
I'm a different Chris, but your persistent references to unborn children highlights an important distinction between Republicans and Democrats. It seems Republicans tend to care a great deal about children before they're born, whereas Democrats tend to care a great deal about children after they're born. Just an observation.
Dopper:
Pro-life Democrats are far and few between though. I can only think of Boran, Stupak (obviously), Davis, and Kaptur.
(Other) Chris:
If they aren't born, then who cares? If you are suggesting that I don't care about born babies, though, that would be incorrect.
Bart DePalma said...
It should be amusing to hear the Dems criticize the GOP for being unwelcoming to women as Sarah Palin campaigns across the nation for GOP House candidates with crowds jammed full of admiring women while the Dems call Sarah names like "Caribou Barbie" and criticize her wardrobe spending.
~~~~~~~~~~
Palin's Popularity Plummets, Dems Continue To Whack Away
Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin's standing among the American public has plummeted in recent weeks, as the potential 2012 presidential candidate has weighed in forcefully (and inaccurately) into the health care debate.
A new CNN Poll shows that Palin's favorability rating has fallen seven percentage points since May, from 46 percent to 39 percent. Anything under the 50 percent mark is considered problematic, especially when the politician is a known quantity (only five percent of the public said they had never heard of the former governor). Fully 48 percent of those polled said they had an unfavorable impression of Palin.
BDP, as you are obsessed by polls, 'nuf said! ;)
take care, blessings
@Charles
During most of the post-WWII era, their country was governed by the Swedish Social Democratic Party (in Swedish: Socialdemokraterna). Social Democrats imposed big unions, especially Swedish Trade Union Confederation. Carl XVI Gustaf has been Sweden's king and head of state since 1973 (happy, Jacob?). While NOT the Soviet Union (yet), Sweden is along the same spectrum. See you later.
sorry, last post: anyone, try cutting and pasting the bulk of that sentence into google....says everything about Charles's actual depth of knowledge!
night
Charles said: At least our party is more inclusive of unborn children, REGARDLESS of their sex.
I think that's a very risky line of argument. If word gets around that all those unborn children actually HAVE sex, spooked Republicans are going to drop them like a hot potato.
Good night, Peter Wolf.
Note to the GOP: you don't have a problem with Latinos, Blacks, Women, College Educated voters, please don't try and win any over.
Meanwhile Democrats with organization like blue dogs, can pick off 25% of right of center districts in the US and Democrats will continue to keep winning.
People the first rule of politics is "when you opponent is shooting themselves in the foot let them". Palin is Colin Powell (you know that mystical figure that will draw a part of the other parties base but somehow never does). The GOP is just 10 year behind the Democrats in this area. They are still in the token figure stage (Democrats got beyond this is in the Clinton years).
Democrats figured out that to win over some groups you need "flexibility". So you have pro-life Blue Dogs, or pro 2nd amendment New Democrats. The GOP is going for purity test. With the black vote instead of more JC Watts, Colin Powells, or even Condies (the 1st two were pro AA, the last two are pro-choice), they run too many hard right Alan Keyes, the guy in Ohio (whose name escapes me) or for Michael Steele to lose his moderate image. Outside the south and Mormon belt most GOP woman are center right, by not catering to them in any way they lose way too high a percentage to the us Democrats. This should be obvious but i guess DENIAL IS EASIER.
BD: It should be amusing to hear the Dems criticize the GOP for being unwelcoming to women as Sarah Palin campaigns across the nation for GOP House candidates with crowds jammed full of admiring women while the Dems call Sarah names like "Caribou Barbie" and criticize her wardrobe spending.
filistro said... The Great Palin Wardrobe meme was relevant because it reinforced a feeling already generally abroad in the land... that Palin was not a serious candidate at all, but more like a Stepford woman who had been constructed, packaged, programmed and trotted out solely to energize right-wing voters...And as such, it was a spectacularly successful meme. One of the best ever.
How could I forget the "Stepford wife" smear? Any other members of the Party of Women want to offer their own favorite sexist attacks on Palin?
Bart:
Don't forget Bradford (above) claiming that McCain only selected Palin because he wanted to make her his mistress (and KEEP his Stepford wife, I guess ; )
Bart said: Any other members of the Party of Women want to offer their own favorite sexist attacks on Palin?
Jeez, Bart... how can you look so hearbreakingly handsome in your blogger profile, and still be such a jerk?
It's just a damned shame, that's what it is....
But I digress.
If you criticize Obama, do I call it "sexist"? No. So why does my criticism of Palin earn that epithet from you.
Wait, I know! I know!
It's because you're a REPUBLICAN!
@ Charles said...
Dopper:
Pro-life Democrats are far and few between though. I can only think of Boran, Stupak (obviously), Davis, and Kaptur.
If you used this little thing called google you would find a lot more than you can think of in the house (Gene Taylor, Hill, Heath Schuler, etc.) and a few more in the Senate (Sen. Ben Nelson, etc.). I think either you honestly don't know or your being willfully ignorant not to concede the point.
No one asked MALE candidates how they were going to take office with small children still at home.
Dopper:
Thanks for the info (and personal attack). I honestly didn't know (but I predict that Sen. Nelson WILL vote for Obamacare with federal funds going to abortion, so I don't consider that pro-life).
Bart De Palma:
My personal favorite, though, is that she didn't write her own book (available at bookstores everywhere next Tuesday 11/17/09) oblivious to the fact that her co-author is ALSO a right-wing Christian WOMAN. This is not just run-of-the-mill criticism. No MALE candidate has ever been subjected to sexist attacks like this.
American Republicanism cannot really be compared with European conservatism, so I think a lot of this post is specious.
Things which have been traditionally considered to be 'women's issues' such as reproductive freedom and universal healthcare are a done deal on both sides of the political divide in Europe - most European conservatives would probably be just a somewhat to the right of Obama on the US political spectrum.
European conservatism is also not so fundamentally based in religion, with its deep rooted antipathy towards women. Even the more traditionally Catholic countries have changed a lot in recent years.
I am a British woman who has often voted Conservative in Britain, but would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote Republican in the US.
As for the Renard's colour scheme, throughout most European countries - the leftist parties are denoted in red (the colour of socialism after all)and the conservative parties in blue, so Renard may assume that's the way everyone does it. It confused me utterly when I got here.
Bart DePalma said...
~~~~~~~~~~
Again, one never gets a second chance to make a first impression, especially in politics!
Keep hope alive!
palin going rogue er vogue ...
palin/bachmann 2012 !!!
6p00...
Thank God you aren't voting here in the U.S. then. How about you let us decide our own elections for ourselves?
@ Charles
I'm suggesting nothing about you personally. I don't know you. The only glimpse into your opinions I have gotten has come from the comments section of this blog. Mine was a general observation. Many Republicans I know are passionately "Pro-Life" on the abortion issue, however when it comes to providing for those children who are born into poverty and abuse, they disappear, blaming the parents and dismissing the issue as wasteful government spending. But perhaps you are "pro-life" and in favor of increasing funding for social programs addressing hunger, poverty, and child abuse.
As for the color scheme, I see to recall that Ronald Reagan's 1984 electoral map was all BLUE States, except for Minnesota, so I don't think that the Left gets a monopoly on that color ; )
Chris:
I am NOT in favor of increasing funding for GOVERNMENT social programs addressing hunger and poverty. If you still have any questions, let me know.
Charles said...
6p00...
Thank God you aren't voting here in the U.S. then. How about you let us decide our own elections for ourselves?
~~~~~~~~~~
Yea, the party of No! likes to go it alone ie cheney/bush in Iraq ...
btw, the Reps will need a lot more help than divine intervention ...
take care
p.s. we did decide, Obama over palin 53/46
palin/bachmann 2012 !!!
When Palin actually runs against Obama it will be MORE than 53% in favor of her.
Charles said...
When Palin actually runs against Obama it will be MORE than 53% in favor of her.
~~~~~~~~~~
One may have missed it, ms mooseburger quit! it was in all the media ...
take care, blessings
Obama "quit" as State and then U.S. Senator. So?
What Charles means is that Palin will get MORE than 53% of the big-bellied bubba Bible belt bigot vote.
And he's right.
When Palin actually runs against Obama it will be MORE than 53% in favor of her.
Maybe more than 53% of her ambiguously defined "real America". But definitely not more than 53% (or even 50%) of "voting America".
But it's cute that you have a dream Charles.
Also, Obama quit being a senator because he isn't allowed to hold that position while being President. Palin was not in the position of being Governor or Going Rogue, she just chose Going Rogue.
@ Charles
Let me see if I get you right: a truly free and democratic country is one in which only one, truly conservative, party is in power, and no liberal/social-democrat/leftist opposition is even on the ballot.
A country is not free by virtue of the free elections and the free political process in it, but rather by virtue of its ruling party being the most "free" of all parties.
Reminds me of Orwell's old joke: All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
Sounds exactly like good ol' Soviet Union to me.
We'll see, Robert.
shiloh, I've been pondering your proposed ticket (Palin Bachmann 2012) in relation to the subject of this thread (strong confident, capable women in politics, etc...)
...and I'm thinking we may have to consider reversing the ticket. I'm pretty sure Bachmann is even more qualified than Palin to assume the awesome responsibility of leadership of the free world.
Also she's even steadier, even more reliable, even more scholarly and well-informed (if such a thing is possible.)
Memo: Let's discuss it at the next party meeting, okay?
No, Sergeiy, you don't get me right. Let me guess, you can't vote in U.S. elections either?
filistro said...
Bart said: Any other members of the Party of Women want to offer their own favorite sexist attacks on Palin?
Jeez, Bart... how can you look so hearbreakingly handsome in your blogger profile, and still be such a jerk? ... Wait, I know! I know! It's because you're a REPUBLICAN!
:::chuckle:::
A heartbreakingly handsome jerk? You are going to make me blush. I guess I will have to blame my neanderthal male disposition for faults. After all, we GOP neanderthals are simply not evolved enough to help ourselves.
If you criticize Obama, do I call it "sexist"? No. So why does my criticism of Palin earn that epithet from you.
I criticized the Stepford Wife smear as sexist because it attacks Palin's gender in a way that would never be applied to a male. I had no idea whether you were a woman or a man.
You are apparently suggesting that you cannot be sexist by tossing the Stepford Wife mud at Palin because you are a female and thus cannot be sexist to another female. OK, what then is your purpose in admiring sexist attacks against a fellow woman?
Liberals like to use the meme of self hate used to explain why members of the same gender, race or sexual preference attack their own. However, you do not seem to be the self hating type.
At the risk of being a jerk twice over, are you instead simply engaging in a politically motivated cat fight with a woman you dislike?
:::quickly ducks behind the desk:::
@ Sergeiy: conservatives being the "free" party? Don't buy into their propaganda. Conservative regimes from Tehran to Santiago disagree.
Remember kids, contrary to popular opinion, China is a conservative paradise. Economic liberty abounds while social and civil liberty is nonexistent.
Charles said...
Obama "quit" as State and then U.S. Senator. So?
~~~~~~~~~~
Again please, is deflection all 'ya got. I ask very little of clueless winger trolls, just they stay on topic ;)
Reps defending palin is like Manna from Heaven !!! for those who believe in the deity ;)
There is a god as conservatives are still obsessed w/the thrilla from Wasilla! :) you bet'cha
take care
filistro
bachmann/palin 2012!
bachmann truly is Manna from Heaven for the Dems as she needs to remain in the spotlight 24/7. She is beyond bat shit crazy!
again, how did the Dems get sooo damn lucky ...
No, Richard, a CONSERVATIVE China would be seeking to bring back their 4,000 year hereditary dynasty (probably get you run over in Tiananmen Square if you advocated that). Communist China is currently a SOCIALIST republic. Nice try though.
@Charles
"Obama "quit" as State and then U.S. Senator. So?"
OBama "quit" to get to a more responsible position. Palin "quit" to (a) promote her book (b) make money through speeches (c) avoid having to govern during a recession (d) all of the above.
I choose (d).
Assuredly that would get you killed.
Communist China styles itself as such, but its hardly walking the walk. China has been increasing economic degregulation both in pace and scope for years now.
Not to mention the fact that these socialist dictatorships you keep bringing up seem to have an awful lot in common with rightist ideology (militarism, nationalism, strong centralized control, lack of individual liberty) and are all characterized by the utter failure to attain socialist ideals.
So, the conclusion one might reach is that while socialism works in theory, in practice its resembled nothing so much as the ultimate right-wing dream--monarchy.
I'd be curious to see a comparison of the United States vs other countries with a winner-take-all electoral system rather than a parliamentary one like most European nations. Call me reactionary, but I have a feeling the structure of the elections has a lot to do with who is willing to stand for office.
No, Charles. You are describing a reactionary China. Richard characterizes both conservatism and current China correctly.
Bart, Bart... you just don't get it, do you?
A big clue was "cat fight", a concept which has an intense appeal to a certain level of male evolution. (On the other hand, we can safely assume that you are heterosexual... ;-)
No, my point is that you automatically assume any attack on a woman, especially by another woman, is "sexist." But maybe it's just an attack without regard to gender... ya ever think of that?
For example I recall how devastating it was to Al Gore's campaign when word got out that Naomi Wolff had advised him to wear "earth tones", jeans and open-collar sports shirts.
Nobody called that meme sexist, but it was certainly effetice... because what kind of doofus needs someone else to tell him/her how to dress?
Ditto for Palin.
As to your simultaneous handsomeness and jerkiness, it always reminds me of a classic scene from "Seinfeld," where Elaine is ecstatically telling Jerry about the wonderful new guy she's just met:
Elaine (bubbling):... He's wonderful, sexy, smart, and best of all, he's pro-choice!
Jerry: Wow, you discussed abortion on a first date?
Elaine: Well, no.... but I'm sure he's pro-choice. He must be.
Jerry: Why?
Elaine: Well, because.... he's just so good-looking."
;-)
DEM_in_Virginia:
I would argue that former Gov. Palin is having MORE of a positive impact on the national level, just using Facebook, than she could have staying on in Alaska. Just wait until her book releases next week. You won't know what hit you!
Well, luckily, Richard and Mishka -- no one is arguing about China's female politicians in this thread. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Since the wingers have gone totally off-topic, as per usual ...
Timothy McVeigh was a right-wing religious radical nut case who blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma City killing many innocent men, women and children.
Must be why Oklahomans are clinging to their guns, religion and the Rep party as McVeigh must be one of their heroes ;) eh
'nuf said!
A post about female legislators turns into a comment thread about Half-Baked Alaska (once-upon-a-time executive) and the Cashing In 2010 tour.
First Palin reference? Who else. That obsessed and paranoid leftie Charles.
Hey, Mule. Worst. Thread. Ever. Charles is involved.
That's not very nice, loner. If Palin gets elected PRESIDENT, that kinda trumps any whining about legislators.
If someone had started a thread claiming that Democrats have never had a female as Secretary of State, even I would bring up Albright and Clinton (plus other examples of females in other posts).
BTW: the FIRST Palin reference on this thread was indeed from "That obsessed and paranoid leftie" Persuter at 12:48 PM. My FIRST post was in response to that post at 12:55 PM.
:rolleyes:
Charles—
Albright was Secretary of State.
No whining (and winking) here. Smirks and snears. You betcha!
I don't think Palin will make a serious attempt at the Presidency in 2012 (although I think she might run a vanity campaign, just to keep her name in the spotlight and to keep her fee up on the lecture circuit). But oh dear lord do I hope and pray that she does.
A real Palin-mania focused Republican Presidential primary would be the best possible news imaginable for Obama in 2012. It would guarantee a cut-throat round of intra-party fratricide on the right and would provide a crystal clear choice to the electorate which breaks in Obama's favor all down the line.
For the Republicans to go with Palin would be like adopting "we don't need no stinkin' independents or swing voters" as their campaign slogan.
So Charles, do please keep banging that Palin-Bachman drum. Or, if you prefer: "oh, no, please no, don't throw us in the Palin-patch! Pleeeeease!!!!"
Charles:
'When Palin actually runs against Obama it will be MORE than 53% in favor of her.'
This will never happen, and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, and give you tremendous
(50:1) odds.
-If Palin and Obama are the 2 candidates for president in 2012, and Palin wins with more than 53% of the vote, I pay you $2,500.
-If Palin and Obama are the 2 candidates for president in 2012, and Obama wins, or Palin wins with less than 53% of the vote, you pay me $50.
-If Palin or Obama are not candidates in the general election, the bet is off.
Let me know it these terms are acceptable to you. They should be, given your extreme confidence in her electoral abilities as expressed in this thread.
Charles said...
~~~~~~~~~~
If it's an but's were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Charles is soooo obsessed w/ms mooseburger he is now talking nonsensical, hilarious hypotheticals.
btw, did you pre-order her book Going Rouge ;)
take care
So is Hillary Clinton. This thread is about more than just the number of U.S. vs. socialist country's legislators. "GOP HOSTILITY TOWARD ALL FEMALE CANDIDATES" is what I am disputing.
Charles—
For the first time today, you are correct. Congrats.
palin/Charles 2012!
Charles writes:
"GOP HOSTILITY TOWARD ALL FEMALE CANDIDATES" is what I am disputing.
Odd that that phrase (in "quotation" marks, no less) appears nowhere on this page but in your post.
Nobody made the claim that the GOP is "hostile to all female candidates," so I'm not sure why you feel the need to dispute it.
Delorian:
Since wagering on the Internet is illegal, I would be willing to accept your terms but instead I will "donate" $50 to the ACLU if she loses and you "donate" $2,500 if she wins.
ALL
All?
So this is what it's like to play like Charles. I think I'll pass.
Carry on.
yoink (in response to the Politico story):
"The gist of the article was as follows -- as the Republican party has pushed out moderates, it has tended to appear more hostile to women candidates . . ."
No apology needed.
filistro:
LMAO! I appreciate your sense of humor. Folks around here too often treat politics as some sort of a blood sport.
About twenty years ago, I made friends with a die hard feminist in a graduate poli sci class. We used to go at politics hammer and tong, but miraculously retained our senses of humor. When I told my friend I was marrying a mildly feminist woman, she looked aghast and wondered how my fiance could ever live with me. I could never marry someone who was not a feminist, she declared. I replied that tossing away a special love for the sake of politics is simply stupid.
My wife is still putting up with me.
Take it easy.
palin + Charles = 200 posts w/a bullet ;)
So recapping, Charles (2) fetishes are Gays and palin ~ a certain symmetry ...
loner:
No skin off my nose (as you can tell, I am quite busy single-handedly defending conservatism and everything right and pure about America ; )
"DEM_in_Virginia:
I would argue that former Gov. Palin is having MORE of a positive impact on the national level, just using Facebook, than she could have staying on in Alaska. Just wait until her book releases next week. You won't know what hit you!"
Aah. So according to the Republicans the best way to govern effectively is to stop governing and hanging out on Facebook. No wonder they want small government !! Their policy makers are complete nutsos.
Charles—
Really? I thought you were demonstrating stupidity by being stupid. No difference?
pure about America
Purity isn't all it's cracked up to be.
No, DEM-in_Virginia, the BEST way to govern would have been if McCain had beat Obama. Alternatively, Palin has done more to slow down Obama's run-away train toward socialism than any other elected or un-elected Republican out there. Don't worry, 2012 will get here soon enough.
Bart DePalma,
Amen. It is not just a problem in this forum, it seems to be a problem in the United States as a whole.
I do not know how to get us (all of us) back to being civil when discussing politics.
Mishka:
I'm not the one calling others "stupid" here.
The best thing for all sides of the political 'Palin-Spectrum' is to let her decide what she wants to do. If she does seek national office again: then have her out there in public talking with a myriad of voters, answering questions from the press (even tough ones), and explaining the detailed vision she has for America's future.
Let her stand (or fall) on her own merits. She'll either pass muster...or she won't.
Charles:
I (clearly) disagree that Gov. Palin is a liar too.
:rolleyes: So you seriously believe that Palin has read "all of them"?
I said Spain is ALONG THE SAME SPECTRUM but specifically NOT the same as Iraq.
And I said that to conflate the two qualitatively different elections was exactly the same as comparing Bush to Hitler - it's totally unreasonable.
You're not reading or comprehending, you're just posting.
I do not know how to get us (all of us) back to being civil when discussing politics.
Face to face discussion and debate tends to be more civil. Alternately known as Gabe's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.
Charles,
I agree to donate $2,500 to charity if Palin beats Obama with greater than 53% of the vote in 2012.
Bart, I've always wondered about the inner dynamics of a "mixed marriage" like Carville-Matalin. I truly could never understand how they lived together without killing each other.
Lately I've decided politics (despite being their profession) must still be more of a game to them than a vocation. They'd be like a married couple who root for two different sports teams.
But Carville and Matalin are like a married couple who COACH two different sports teams. It must be so hard not to let dangerous nuggets of strategery slip during pillow talk.
But then.... I start picturing pillow talk between those two and my mind boggles all over again.
EmonOkari:
I'd rather she keep building her support through Facebook, which is proving far more effective than, say, spokesman for General Electric did for Ronald Reagan ; )
The discrepancy between the US and proportional systems in terms of female representation can be partly explained by quota systems (particularly prevalent in African Democracies such as the majority-women parliament in Rwanda), but that doesn't explain the near-constant discrepancy between parties ideologically.
Yes, the Democratic party has a problem with sexism too. I don't think anyone would assert that Palin didn't face sexist attacks from some in the left and center (and on the right for that matter)--that would be as stupid as asserting that Clinton never faced sexist attacks from the organized right.
And it's shameful that only two women have ever been on a major-party ticket, that only one woman has ever led a branch of the US government, only three have sat on the Supreme Court, and only two have ever won a major party Presidential primary contest. It's shameful that in 2009, only 17% of Congress is made up of women.
Now obviously historically, but especially in the present, the vast majority of those women who have reached political prominence have been Democrats.
One would probably conclude that the Democratic party's record on inclusion of women has been embarrassing, but the Republican record has been an unmitigated disgrace.
Remember also, Palin embodies negative stereotypes about women because that's what the party wants her to do. It doesn't excuse unfair attacks against her, but she's not doing women any favors either.
Hey, Mule. Worst. Thread. Ever.
It ranks up there, for sure.
Charles writes (and clearly without pausing to think):
yoink (in response to the Politico story):
"The gist of the article was as follows -- as the Republican party has pushed out moderates, it has tended to appear more hostile to women candidates . . ."
No apology needed.
No, you're quite right. No apology is needed because that statement quite clearly does not include the word "all." Nor does it imply that the GOP is uniformly hostile to all women candidates.
I know "all" is a small word, Charles, but it makes quite a big difference to the meaning of a sentence; one might say it makes all the difference.
Mishka said...
Bart DePalma,
Amen. It is not just a problem in this forum, it seems to be a problem in the United States as a whole.
I do not know how to get us (all of us) back to being civil when discussing politics.
~~~~~~~~~~
Ailes/Atwater/Rove made presidential politics a bloodsport! and Obama/Dems finally caught up w/their tactics in 2008.
Reps are all about hate and division as they hide behind religious wedge issues most of their hypocrites could care less about, but in the past and even now they continue to use because politically it is helpful in winning elections, their bottom line.
Again, Reps/Ailes/Safire/Nixon/Agnew told me to love America or leave it in the late '60s and ironically, because I love my country, I stayed.
You gonna reap just what you sow and in 2008, Karma caught up w/the party of No! after (8) years of cheney/bush.
... and so it goes
take care
yoink:
Well, it wasn't just about female LEGISLATORS either.
I'd rather she keep building her support through Facebook
Hmmm...running a whole political campaign solely through Facebook? Quite an interesting strategy. I personally believe FB falls within the 'talking to voters' tent. Though at some point, all who seek public office should face the discerning scrutiny of the public eye at large. Though, I guess if she can lock up 70,000,000 Facebooks Fans in the next 1000 days...your proposed strategy just might work after all.
Try reading where "loner" (above) slammed me (but not Persecutor) for bringing up Palin when it was ALL about female legislators.
Maybe Pawlenty can win, he just thanked the Lord for his "red hot smokin' wife"
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/tim-pawlenty-to-iowa-gop-thank-you-lord-for-my-red-hot-smokin-wife.php?ref=fpc
YIKES!
@ Richard - no, I'm not buying into their propaganda; just using the trusted method of reductio ad absurdum on our friend Charles here (and you are right about China too).
@ Charles - you're right about my eligibility to vote (although I am getting a fair bit of YOUR tax $$s); and no, I'm not an illegal alien.
But you're wrong about your vision of a free country. Or are you willing to accept that, let's say, France is not Socialist? Or worse still, are you actually saying Socialist countries can be free countries? I wonder.
Sorry, that last post was for "yoink."
EmonOkari:
Facebook will not be the only tool (if she decides to run). Keep in mind that some of her "fans" on Facebook right now will certainly NOT be voting for her in 2012 or beyond (as some have been banned for negative comments). I am fine with that for now though.
Bradford:
Do you believe that John McCain had sex with Sarah Palin?
Sergeiy:
Socialist countries CANNOT, by definition, be free countries. France is more socialist than free. Next question?
Just wanted to post this from Spain:
Charles, you're an idiot. Don't speak about what you don't have any f***ing idea.
For the rest: the party governing here may be called "socialist", but they're far from the left. Their government is rather centrist, with occasional visits to both left and right.
PS: For all those like Shiloh, praying for a Bachman/Palin ticket in 12...
Well, you'd never know who'll be listening to your prayers. If Bachman/Palin can be nominated they can also win (like Reagan did in 1980, after all the Dems wished for him to be nominated so much). And we haven't fully recovered from Bush yet.
Never underestimate the gullibility of the American voter!
Charles-
No, and why would it matter? Palin was and is not qualified, and McCan't picked her over much more qualified women.
Fascinating post, Renard.
Kind of in the dog bites man category if you are paying attention, and so I can kind of understand mule rider describing it as boring. I don't.
From women to blacks to Latinos to Jews to Gays to atheists to educated people, the GOP and especially the white wingnuts of the party are truly hostile to anyone in a position who is not a white protestant (or catholic) male, preferably from the business world. That's why they like Fox so much - it looks and sounds like what they think the country should still look and sound like.
Since women, blacks, latinos and the more secular are the largest growing segments of the population, the demographic destiny of the GOP is either electoral irrelevance or armed revolution leading to a theocracy ala Margaret Atwood's the Handmaid's Tale. (A good read for folks of any political stripe.)
Whereas it is true both liberals and conservatives love talking about ms mooseburger it is for far different reasons.
Libs love palin because she has become a Sat morning cartoon character, not to be taken seriously in any way shape or form as my earlier post A new CNN Poll shows that Palin's favorability rating has fallen seven percentage points since May, from 46 percent to 39 percent. indicated and ...
Cons just love her!
carry on
btw, BDP didn't reply to my earlier post, soooo
Charles-
Read my post agaqin smart guy, I praised Kay Bailey Hutchinson. Tell me how that is "hostility" to women. You are a troll, go back under your bridge.
Maybe Pawlenty can win, he just thanked the Lord for his "red hot smokin' wife"
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/tim-pawlenty-to-iowa-gop-thank-you-lord-for-my-red-hot-smokin-wife.php?ref=fpc
YIKES!
Um...sorry, why am I meant to be outraged that this guy finds his wife attractive? I'm sure there are lots of reasons to be opposed to Pawlenty, but this looks like fauxtrage.
Maybe Pawlenty can win, he just thanked the Lord for his "red hot smokin' wife"
Good grief. ICK.
Come to think of it, since Republicans believe it's better to marry than to burn, I guess for them it's pretty much heaven on earth to marry AND burn.
And I've spent enough time at Free Republic (doing difficult, dangerous anthropological field work) to know that every real red-blooded Republican male sure does love him some red-hot smokin' female politician.
Still, I can't see why Pawlenty's wife wouldn't brain him with a skillet next time he comes through the door.
carlos:
Thank God you don't vote here.
Bradford:
Maybe that was someone posting under the same name who claimed that McCain picked Palin as a mistress.
Ummm, because people loves their wives for something other than their looks, at least that is true for real men. Of course, Gingrich is a Repub leader again, and he is the guy who left his wife in the hos[pital with cancer. Oh ya, and John McCan't who left his wife for a rich beer heiress, after she had an accident and lost her looks. Repubs are women hating mysiginistic jerks.
Charles-
McCain did pick a mistress and not a running mate, that does not mean he was successful in his attempt. It was a turn of phrase...
BTW: the FIRST Palin reference on this thread was indeed from "That obsessed and paranoid leftie" Persuter at 12:48 PM
Very true. I think the idea that Palin somehow should not be brought up in a discussion about GOP female candidates is absurd. I would also point out that I brought up Palin as a suggestion that the GOP is not particularly hostile to women candidates.
(but not Persecutor)
It's Persuter, thanks.
How could I forget the "Stepford wife" smear? Any other members of the Party of Women want to offer their own favorite sexist attacks on Palin?
Calling Palin a "Stepford wife" is not necessarily sexist, any more than calling Obama a "black militant" would be racist - although both characterizations are, IMO, wrong.
She's certainly encountered a lot of sexist attacks, but I'm not sure I'd say that's one of them. Much more obvious is the media discussion of her clothing and looks, the presumption that she couldn't be VP and have a few small children, or the reference in this thread to "beauty queen" as a presumed negative.
Good thing you're just a wacko liberal nutcase because the actual WOMEN voters of Virginia clearly think that Bob McDonnell cares about issues important to them. Because, you know, if they didn't then they wouldn't have voted fro him.
It is worth noting that men broke 62-37 for McDonnell, while women broke 54-46 for McDonnell, and women with a full-time job broke 51-49 for him. The simple fact that a guy wins an election doesn't mean that he doesn't have problems among a particular part of the electorate.
Sergeiy:
Never underestimate the gullibility of the French voter (that is if he is not with his mistress / on vacation at the time).
Bradford:
I'd rather you turn your phrases off.
Charles-
I would rather you had a thought than an attack, but we can't have everything. The repubs have so few people who actually think who have not abandoned the party.
You REALLY think Palin was a good pick for VP? Really?
Yes, Charles, next question:
So, if France, with a Social-Democratic party in the opposition, but on the ballot, is nevertheless "more Socialist than free" by your lights, we must conclude that you would only consider a country "free" if no major party in that country can be characterised by you as "Socialist" (that, I presume, anything not conservative enough for your taste; surely includes the Democratic party in the US).
Hence it follows that in what you call a free country the power must ALWAYS stay with conservatives; moreover, no non-conservative party could even be a major part of the parliamentary opposition.
So, again, what's the big difference from the USSR - the name of the ruling party?
Ummm, because people loves their wives for something other than their looks, at least that is true for real men.
Oh puh-leeze. He called his wife hot. He didn't say "and that's the only quality in her that I admire." If Obama publicly admired Michelle Obama's looks, would you go look for a torch and a pitchfork to hunt him out of office? No, you'd think that was just a sweet thing for any husband to say about any wife.
I hate these kinds of bullshit manufactured political controversies. The politicians we disagree with do enough genuinely damaging or foolish things; we don't need to pretend to care about things which shouldn't concern us in the least.
Sergeiy:
In 2005, France spent over 11.2% of GDP on SOCIALIZED health care. The French government retains considerable DIRECT influence over key segments of infrastructure sectors, with majority ownership of railway, electricity, aircraft, insurance, banking, and telecommunications firms. It has been gradually relaxing its control over these sectors since the early 1990s but still maintains massive control. More than 50% "socialism" doesn't equate to "free" to me. YMMV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirigisme
Yes, Bradford, really.
yoink-
Did you miss the rest of the comment about powerful repubs who DID leave their lives for hotter, younger women? True social conservatives them.
Pawlenty can say anything he wants in private, but in public that comment is demeaning to women.
filistro said...
Bart, I've always wondered about the inner dynamics of a "mixed marriage" like Carville-Matalin. I truly could never understand how they lived together without killing each other.
My marriage is not all that politically mixed. My wife and I are both fairly libertarian, but disagree strongly on abortion and one or two other things. We simply do not discuss our areas of major disagreement and agree to disagree.
I share your amazement at the ongoing success of the Carville and Matalin marriage, though. My hat is off to them. There is no way those two can be following my recipe for maintaining domestic tranquility. They must have some humdinger arguments.
It must be so hard not to let dangerous nuggets of strategery slip during pillow talk. But then.... I start picturing pillow talk between those two and my mind boggles all over again.
I wonder if they tell lies to one another in bed to plant disinformation into the other party.
Maybe they will write a book someday on how they make their marriage work. I am not much into tell all books, buy that one I might buy.
Charles-
Keep it up, it is guys like you who are putting dems in power for years by ruining the Reagan coalition. We love you guys!
Bradford writes: Did you miss the rest of the comment about powerful repubs who DID leave their lives for hotter, younger women? True social conservatives them.
No, I didn't miss it. It has nothing to do with what Pawlenty said. It's just a rather crude stab at guilt by association.
Pawlenty can say anything he wants in private, but in public that comment is demeaning to women.
Again, if Obama called Michelle "hot" in public, it wouldn't cause you to bat an eye--and nor should it.
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