8.17.2009

Grand Unified Obama Critique

One of these people must be wrong! But is it Paul Krugman?

[T]here are some good reasons for the prominence of the public option in our debate. […] One is […] what the option debate says about Obama.

If progressives had real trust in Obama’s commitment to doing the right thing, the administration would have broad leeway to do deals. But the president doesn’t command that kind of trust.

Partly it’s a matter of style — as many people have noted, he has been weirdly reluctant to make the moral case for universal care, weirdly unable to show passion on the issue, weirdly diffident even about the blatant lies from the right. Partly it’s a spillover from his other policies: by appointing an economic team that’s Rubin redux, by taking such a kindly attitude to the banks, he has squandered a lot of progressive enthusiasm.
...or is it Jay Cost?
For whatever reason, the Obama administration has acted as if those hagiographical comparisons to FDR were apt. It let its liberal allies from the coasts drive the agenda and write the key bills, and it's played straw man semantic games to marginalize the opposition. For all the President's moaning in The Audacity of Hope about how the Bush administration was railroading the minority into accepting far right proposals - he was prepared to let his Northeastern and Pacific Western liberal allies do exactly the same thing: write bills that excite the left, infuriate the right, and scare the center; insist on speedy passage through the Congress; and use budget reconciliation to ram it through in case the expected super majority did not emerge.

This might have flown during FDR's 100 Days. But this is not 1933 and Barack Obama is no Franklin Roosevelt.
If liberals are convinced that the President is too conservative and conservatives are convinced that he's too liberal then either the President must be doing everything right or everything wrong. Lately, granted, it has seemed more like the latter.

But actually, these critiques are not so incompatible.

Cost suggests that Obama misunderstood how difficult it would be to get his agenda passed in a 60-vote Senate in which the swing vote was a conservative Democrat from a state that John McCain carried by 17 points. Therefore, he should have bowed to reality and pursued a more modest agenda.

There are a few of Obama's liberal critics who could stand to recognize this. The Senate, with its filibuster rule, small-state bias, and committee and seniority structure, is a slow-moving, change-resistant, lower-case "c" conservative institution. It's not obvious that if you put -- I don't know -- Dennis Kucinich in the Oval Office that he'd have been able to accomplish a whole heck of a lot more. And Obama's achievements are not insignificant: he signed an $800 billion stimulus package, expanded children's health care, seems to have rescued the economy from a complete meltdown (although not necessarily from an extended recession), and has generally gotten good reviews on his foreign policy. And it's a little early to write the obituary on health care, which is still more likely to pass than to fail.

The more intelligent liberal critique of Obama, however -- and the one that Krugman is echoing -- is that he's left too much up to the whims of Congress, and particularly the Senate. Yes, Obama let his "Northeastern and Pacific Western liberal allies" write the health care, climate and stimulus bills. But he also let Blue Dogs and Committee Chairs mark them up. As a result, the climate bill that passed the House was significantly watered-down, the stimulus package was less than what economists like Krugman was calling for, and the public option is in grave trouble in the Senate.

What I think people were hoping for is that Obama would, somehow or another, be able to overcome the institutional barriers to change, probably through a hands-on approach involving a lot of public persuasion. And by "institutional barriers", I mean the Senate, among other things. The public option is a good example of this. It's fairly popular and would probably lower the net cost of the bill to taxpayers, but it likely won't pass because 10-12 Senate Democrats who take a lot of money from the health care industry are against it. Yes, some of these people are folks like Blanche Lincoln and Mary Landrieu who hail from states where Obama was never popular. But of the Democrats who have yet to endorse the public option, about half are from states that Obama carried.

To some fairly large extent, this was probably a vain hope. I think Cost is right that people have tended to overstate how much the country had changed last November 4th. Some 46 percent of the nation voted against Barack Obama, and we're still mostly the same country that elected George W. Bush twice.

Nevertheless, although his numbers have slipped significantly now, Obama had approval ratings of 50 percent or higher in all but two states throughout the first half of the year. We can debate the semantics of what a "mandate" is -- the fact is, Obama had a lot of political capital to burn. Obama could have used that political capital in either of two ways. He might have used it to bludgeon the Blue Dogs and moderate Republicans, or alternatively, he could have used it to quell liberal impatience and play more for the long term, perhaps limiting his policy advocacy to popular issues like education after getting the stimulus passed.

It's not clear that Obama has done either. Although Obama has put a lot of cars on the policy train, he's also let the Congress drive it. This is arguably the worst of all worlds. A slowgoing, more passive approach might be fine -- there are good arguments that Obama should have chosen to preserve his political capital once unemployment shot up from the 7's to the 9's within the first few months of his administration. If so, then perhaps Cost is right that the train should never have been allowed to leave the station. Alternatively, if you conclude that the Democrats' policy window was narrow, then full-speed-ahead was the right approach. But then Obama needed to play conductor, when instead he's often seemed happy enough to be along for the ride.

Now, let me pause here and stipulate how easy it is to play Monday Morning Quarterback. Obama passed one of the largest spending bills in history, a lot of which was directed toward traditionally liberal priorities. He's gotten farther on universal health care than any President has in the last 50 years and may well still get across the finish line. If a public-option-less bill passes the Congress, then liberals have every right to critique it as a matter of policy. But as a matter of politics, it will have been an enormous accomplishment.

For my money, the problem has not been that Obama is insufficiently committed to the progressive cause (which, by the way, is not necessarily his job). Nor is it that he's tried to ram liberal policies down the country's throat. Almost all of of the reforms that the Democrats have been advancing -- the stimulus, health care, global warming regulation, etc. -- began as fairly popular programs (although they didn't necessarily end up they once the Congress got done with them). Rather, it's that in trying to split the difference between these two extremes, he's sometimes failed to make the tough choices that define successful Presidencies. Obama will probably get this figured out -- in fact, he'll almost certainly get it figured out by 2012 (take a look at where Reagan and Clinton were at this point in their first terms). But if Democrats want to survive 2010 and the health care debate largely intact, he will need to do so sooner rather than later.

71 comments

Nat said...

IMO Obama is kissing Republican butt for pretty much zero votes. As Krugman says, he is easily rolled. This is way too early for even a hint that the public option is dead. It should be conceded at the last minute in exchange for a public pledge of votes from enough Senators for an otherwise good bill to pass. We have seen this behavior in the stimulus, wire tapping, torture, and Gitmo. As they say on the play ground: get that weak shit outta here.

taw said...

There's nothing in the Constitution that says Senate requires 60 votes to pass laws. It clearly requires a simple majority, and everything else is just Democrats trying to avoid the responsibility of actually running the country they were elected to run.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

Nat said...

And I forgot to add: if that leads to no bill, so be it. The trend of health care costs in this country is such that at some point we will get a good bill.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

I think they could get most everything without the public option then after it passes, introduce a separate bill with a public option in it to be included in the pool of available insurance options. Use the reconciliation process to get it passed with a simple majority.

If I understand reconciliation correctly, a public option bill would not be blocked by the Byrd Rule since it would cut the deficit.

verity025 said...

Excellent post, Nate.

icebergslim said...

Nate:

Spot on.

I have been critical of Obama and it has been warranted. But, we just don't know for sure how this will play out.

One thing I have been griping about is the ho-hum attitude of the Obama White House with all these town hall meetings.

Wasn't it Obama who said the right and other side will do everything to scare you up? Yet, the Democratic Congress left with no bill in tact, let the GOP run away with OUR ISSUE, and created it into the boogey-man.

If Obama WH was ready for this, they sure in the hell has not acted like it. Obama should not be doing town hall meetings in August, because WE SHOULD KNOW THE BILL BY NOW.

At any rate, I believe that this bill will sink or swim with the public option. Forget the Republicans, they won't vote for ANY BILL even if they made MONEY ON IT. It is pure political wills, at this point.

ice

Michael said...

too many house dems will vote against a bill WITHOUT a public option. or will they...?

keetz4 said...

First, can I point out that its August.........its a bad month to try to get anything accomplished. People are on vacation....its the end of summer bla bla bla. Secondly, I think that Obama may be feigning when he seems all too willing to give up on the public option. After all, what better way to steal the thunder of the crazies who are disrupting the town halls by suggesting you might give up one of the provisions that has them most upset. BTW its the reaction to what's happening at the town halls for which I fault the White House......they should have expected and been ready for trouble.....esp. after the teabag parties last Spring. In any case, he's also been neutralizing the crazies by going around to town halls this past week......they have been forced to behave. Finally, we all have to stop expecting Obama to walk on water and to be the perfect liberal president we always dreamed of having. After all, he IS human; one of the best leaders I've seen in a while; he's probably had one of the worst opening acts of any president in US history and he is a significant improvement over Mr. Bush.......the rest will follow as time permits.

And taw, what they are worried about is a filibuster in the Senate over health care. It takes 60 votes to stop a filibuster. And the Rs are promising they will filibuster any health care bill that comes up.

CO-Liberal said...

" If a public-option-less bill passes the Congress, then liberals have every right to critique it as a matter of policy. But as a matter of politics, it will have been an enormous accomplishment."

I disagree. A public-option-less bill, if it is passed, is bad politics. It won't decrease medical costs, so it will be a failure. It will pass without any Republican support and the Republicans will be able to claim that this was a Democratic bill. I can hear them already: "See, Government can't solve any problem!"

TommyReport said...

"Obama will probably get this figured out -- in fact, he'll almost certainly get it figured out by 2012 (take a look at where Reagan and Clinton were at this point in their first terms)."

Reagan was higher and Clinton was lower. What is your point?

Obama is one of the least popular presidents at this time through his term in the last fifty years. The polls are the polls. Only Ford and Clinton were lower.

Reagan's numbers were higher than Obama's average approval rating of 51/44 at this time through his term. Hell, the pre-9/11 George W. Bush was higher.

Are you saying that the pre 9/11 George W. Bush was a heavy favorite for re-election?

Steve Peterson said...

Republicans = unwavering loyalty even after Bush leads us into a ill-prepared war on false evidence, violates the Geneva Conventions, does nothing while an American city is washed away, and nominates his secretary to the Supreme Court.

Democrats = bitching about selling out after Obama implements a significant and politically costly stimulus package, a politically costly bailout that may have prevented GD2, cap and trade, and in the middle of negotiating the biggest health care reform since Medicare.

oldpolmike said...

Great post Nate. The downside of Obama's persona has always been high expectations. It will be up to Axelrod to message it all properly when the time comes. In the meantime, just as it took a few months for Obama to learn how to be a national candidate, I agree it will take some time for him to learn how to most effectively operate the executive. After all, it was legitimate criticism that Obama lacked executive experience. But it is also true that he has demonstrated a voracious ability to master process. I look forward to what's to come.

TommyReport said...

Citing that gallup poll is laughable.

First of all, the data is from January-June. Those numbers are now irrelevant considering that we are in mid-August.

Obama's gallup approval rating right now is 10 points lower than his average from January to July.
And the Gallup poll, as you know, was off hilariously on November 4th (it predicted a 55-44 Obama victory).

It's not just Rasmussen either. Go look at his numbers in PPP(D) and Quinnipiac.

TommyReport said...

Gallup doesn't even poll registered voters as I understand it.

Just Americans.

Why is Kos/research 2K polling all adults and not just registered voters? Why not give us a snapshot of what registered voters think instead of including non-voters?

I think the arguments against relying on likely voter models is legitimate but then I don't see the same standard being applied to pollsters that include all American adults (even felons) as part of their polling data.

Mike said...

Nate,

Would you mind spending a bit of time discussing the politics of fixing — four or six or eight or 10 years from now — whatever flawed health care plan passes this year? As I understand it, most people who are serious about keeping costs down and keeping our economy solvent agree we'll eventually need a public option. What does it look like, from the perspective of political strategy, for a second-term President Obama, or perhaps a Democratic President X, to try to addend a public option to whatever bill Obama gets through the current Congress?

I realize a lot of this will depend on things that are far from predictable, i.e. the composition of Congress and the budget picture a full presidential term (or even a decade) from now. But given the topic's prominence, currency and importance, surely it's worth the intellectual masturbation....

Gen Sherman said...

I am sorry Nate, while I tend to mostly agree with you on most of your blogs, these last two today have left me jaw-on-the-floor flabbergasted. I am just at awe how "progressive" bloggers are willing to concede defeat and look at the long haul and cry VICTORY!

No, this is not about 2010, trying to keep majorities or getting what we can now and try to do better next time. There is not one excuse not to get a public option passed THIS YEAR! This is not about politics. This is about millions of Americans being denied health care and going bankrupt because of private corporations whose only interest is to maximize profits. While a liberal at heart, I am also a Christian and in this one the Christian in me wins out. Any Christian who says they don't want a government run health care option for those less capable of affording and getting private insurance is not a Christian in my book.

Religion aside, Dems and Obama have failed miserably in defining the debate. I would have mentioned the billions of dollars private businesses would save in reduced sick leave because EVERYONE would have preventive medicine. The leveling of the competitive field between U.S. corporations and the industrialized world. This debacle has not been adequately thought out and woefully mismanaged. This is not the time to make excuses. Regroup and ram public option down the Repubs throat. See how they like it for once.

Walker said...

"While a liberal at heart, I am also a Christian and in this one the Christian in me wins out."

and

"Regroup and ram public option down the Repubs throat. Se
e how they like it for once."

And there you have it, ladies and gents:

Chapter 12, verse 7 from the Book of Opinia and Chapter 13, verse 9 from the Epistle of Gen (apocrypha).

Quixote said...

Enough of this constant scurrying for cover at the mere mention of the word "filibuster". Sometimes, if the opposition threatens to filibuster, you should MAKE THEM FILIBUSTER. It will not last forever, I promise, even if they dig up Strom.

Surely the Democratic leadership has a spine locked in a vault somewhere, for rare and special occasions.

Gen Sherman said...

As for Blue Dogs sitting on the fence waiting for how this plays out, call them out. We know who they are but only because we are paying attention. Lets see a concerted effort to publicize these politicians who are playing with people's lives and are allowing are children to drown in even more debt. The average American has been blinded by the nefarious false propaganda of the right wing.

We know a public option will save billions for the US economy, not to mention the lives of people who can't receive the life saving treatment because they can't afford don't want to leave their families with the burden of paying their debts after they are gone.

Talk about the real "Death Panels." Those in the insurance field sitting on committees deciding who is worthy to be saved and who is not. This is outrageous and happening right here in our America. Disgusting.

Walker said...

Hey, do you think Obama's lack of executive experience is showing?

As a Republican, I was always way more terrified of Clinton as a POTUS cause the guy was tough, hardened, and brutal.

Obama, according to my statistics, is 38% less a leader than Clinton, during his first 10 months in office.

Gen Sherman said...

Walker, while lack of experience may be contributing to the perception of not taking the lead, I unfortunately am starting to believe it is also because Obama is playing a Clinton and trying to appeal for bi-partisanship.

We can't say this is not what he wanted to do. It was part of his campaign stump speech. Those who voted him understood this. Eventually, he will realize he needs to keep his base happy and as long as Repubs continue to be obstructionist, it will work out in the end. I did not like what Bush did this to this country but that is the way he governed. As long as Repubs don't offer any compromises and continue to spout blatantly false accusations, so be it.

I would like a group of adults sitting down and discussing constructive ideas in a civil manner. This is not what is happening. Someone has to be the adult and that is supposed to be Obama's role.

Brian said...

"As a Republican, I was always way more terrified of Clinton as a POTUS cause the guy was tough, hardened, and brutal."

Which Clinton?

lindi said...

I wonder whether Obama will figure this out. Deval Patrick, the governor of Massachusetts and another Axelrod protege, has a 19% approval rating right now.

Having said that, the WH must be well aware of the stakes at this point. I just read a New York Times article reporting that the White House will try to introduce cooperatives as a viable alternative. This seems like a non-starter to me, but I suppose they could pursue this alternative aggressively to try to paint Republicans in a corner. The downside of course is that the left will likely have none of it.

Gen Sherman said...

Thanks to all for allowing me to rant and putting up with my grammatical errors. This topic has stirred a passion inside of me like no other. To be so close and yet so far. Not to mention to see how gullible some people are to be persuaded by nothing more than made up crap. This is what the Dems have to understand. Millions of Americans feel the same way. A public option is the only real reform. To allow health care to continue in a quasi state similar to today will just be considered a failure.

Alon Levy said...

Nate, the reason Obama hasn't made a moral case for universal health care as Krugman would have liked is that it's a political loser. In Politics Lost, Joe Klein recounts how Bob Shrum has been inserting the language, "Health care is a right, not a privilege" into the speeches of every candidate he's run campaigns for, dating back to 1972, without any success. In a country where 85% of the people have insurance, a liberal had better be prepared to tell people how health care reform will improve health care even for the insured - for example, by lowering costs.

slasher14 said...

When Cost says Obama is no FDR, he's assuming FDR was, at this point in his Presidency, somehow more decisive and focused than Obama. But that simply wasn't the case. FDR's first year in office shows huge stretches in which nobody understood what he was doing, and many of the things he did in his first year he had to redo later on.

What FDR did have going for him was this -- the Depression had been going on for well over three years during which it only became worse. By the time he took over, the Republican Party had zero credibility. Its spokesmen in Congress had no clout at all, and even the conservative wing of the Democratic Party (which was MUCH larger then than it is today) was inclined to go along with whatever FDR wanted to do, since nobody else had had any success.

Obama inherited a recession which threatened to BECOME a depression, but had only been around for a little over a year, and hadn't really hit its lows until the fall in which he was elected. So Republicans can still argue that everything would have worked out OK if the government did nothing. They couldn't say that in 1933.

A lot of the country still wants to believe that the current economic nightmare will pass and we'll wake up one day soon to find the price of housing back where it was in 2006. Two or three more years of freefall, which is what we got in 1931 and 1932, would have left Obama in a position to do almost anything he wanted to.

I think there's very little difference between how Obama has proceeded to govern and how FDR did, other than the fact that the situation today is not seen as being as desperate as it did then.

Jasper said...

Nate is great. Keep up the good work.

Jon Eric said...

Two men are sitting on a curb on a cold February day in D.C.

One man has a jacket. The other does has a knife.

"Let's compromise," says the man without the jacket. "I'll cut your jacket in half, so you can keep half, and give me half."

The trouble is, with only half a jacket each, neither man has enough cover to warm up. So who did that "compromise" benefit?

Jon Eric said...

Sorry, I don't normally double-post, but this begged response:

In a country where 85% of the people have insurance, a liberal had better be prepared to tell people how health care reform will improve health care even for the insured - for example, by lowering costs.

How old are those stastistics? Most Americans get health insurance from their jobs, and with so many Americans losing their jobs (and with so many of those no longer searching to replace those jobs - by joining the army, by going back to school, by starting their own businesses), as well as the growing number of businesses that don't offer health care to their employees, I find it difficult to believe that only 15% of us are uninsured.

And yes, I'm one of them. Due entirely to personal financial issues, I haven't had a checkup in five years. Isn't that a problem?

TommyReport said...

The Deval Patrick analogy is apt. Sean Trende from Real Clear Politics gives us a preview of what the next year will look like for Obama after he is defeated on healthcare reform.

The Shape Of Things To Come From Obama?
http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/06/25/the-shape-of-things-to-come-from-obama/

Governor Deval Patrick (D-MA) is in many ways the "Beta" version of President Barack Obama. Obama strategists David Axelrod and David Plouffe ran Patrick's successful 2006 campaign for Governor, taking Patrick from relative obscurity to the Corner Office. The strategies used were the same. As USA Today noted back in January of 2008: "Both have followed a simple but effective game plan in their political rise: Tell a compelling story about yourself and inspire people who feel left out to take back their government." Sometimes even the rhetoric was the same.

Things haven't worked out so well for Patrick, who in March sported a -41 net approval rating. But Plouffe is back to run his new campaign, and it looks like it won't be all hopey-changey. The Boston Herald's Hillary Chabot reports:

"Self-styled new politics reformer Gov. Deval Patrick is launching his re-election bid as a Beacon Hill brawler, targeting potential rivals with opposition research and openly sparring with fellow Democrats in the Legislature.

Patrick, who once expressed a disdain for political mudslinging, already has hired the state's top opposition researcher, David Stone, to keep any gubernatorial hopefuls against the ropes.

“This is going to get nasty,” said Christy Mihos, a Republican candidate for the Corner Office. “He's going after the Democrat Legislature each and every day, and these are folks that got him elected. He's going to do whatever he has to do to keep his seat.”

Treasurer Timothy Cahill, who is strongly considering a run for governor, has suggested Patrick's office is behind several negative stories questioning his ethical dealings with the state lottery and pension board.

The governor also appears to be taking a page from former Republican Gov. Mitt Romney's campaign playbook, running against lawmakers - even though they are fellow Democrats."

Obama has so far been able to maintain high approval ratings. Even though he's showing some weakening in his approval rating, they overall remain very high. But assuming that the economy begins to take its toll and that there is further disenchantment with his administration, one wonders if this will serve as the beta version for Obama's 2012 campaign?

More importantly, how will voters react to this new Obama? His strength was always his ability to remain somewhat above the fray, running a semi-rose-garden strategy. The one time he fell behind McCain in the polls for an extended period of time, he didn't look particularly good. Maybe he'll be able to pull off the street fighter persona if need be, but my guess is that his main strategy will be trying to avoid going there in the first place.

TommyReport said...

Trende is wrong about one thing in his blog post: Obama has not been able to maintain high approval ratings.

His average of 51/44 is the third worst average approval/disapproval rating in the last fifty years (only Ford and Clinton had lower numbers).

Obama is lagging behind even the pre 9/11 George W. Bush.

DCM in FL said...

TOMMY

you seem to get a thrill repeating ad nauseum that BHO approval/dis = 51/44

says who ???

even that right wing site RCP posts their averages as:

RCP Average 7/27 - 8/16 -- 53.4 40.3 = +13.1 spread

now those are hardly shabby stats under the circumstances

PLUS they are pulled way down in average due primarily to Rasmussen's thumb on the scale claiming a ridiculous 49 50 = -1 spread

comeon, cut the crap. we all know that YOU are full of it...

liars use bad stats to spread their truthiness - and repeat the lies over & over & over - they are still lies, bud

TommyReport said...

DCM,

How about pollster.com?

Let's accept RCP numbers....the point still stands.

Obama is the third least popular president at this time through his term in the last fifty years.

Now go read that Trende article about the Patrick-Obama comparison and learn something. What we see with Patrick is a coming attraction for Obama.

TommyReport said...

I have to keep posting these words from Nate Silver to rebut the standard leftist Rasmussen charge:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/tracking-poll-primer.html

“In summation, none of these tracking polls are perfect, although Rasmussen — with its large sample size and high pollster rating — would probably be the one I’d want with me on a desert island. Conversely, the only one of the trackers that I consider obviously dubious is Zogby.”

We'll see what PPP(D) shows for Obama this week nationally. Is Tom Jensen now a right-wing hack now?

DCM in FL said...

TOMMY

your cherry-picking out-of-context quoting is tiresome...

first, even Nate called out Scotty Rasmussen on his heavy RIGHThanded thumb on the opinion 'poling' scales just a few days ago...remember ???

second, your are trying to compare apples with oranges - especially since the 'Q's' that Rasmussen uses are so heavily loaded for bear as he pushes the opinions to fulfill his neo-agendas

why even FAUX approval polls are closer to Gallup & not even in the same fantasy universe as Scotty lives in...

But spin it as you please, you are still pulling this same crap ad nauseum out of your posterior orifice

at least try to be a good concern troll rather than a shrill shill, and then someday someone here might take one of your posts seriously instead of as the joke[s] that they are

DNFTT

Matt said...

TommyReport: As has been pointed out again and again, daily tracking polls for an election and opinion polls are two different animals, as the final daily tracking point is aimed at predicting the election outcome, and an accurate result can then be used for the next 4 (Or 8) years to argue what a good poller you are. There is no "right" answer to compare job approval rating polls against.

Looks to me like, on Obama job approval ratings, Rasmussen has pretty consistently been an outlier, particularly in terms of the Obama's disapproval numbers. I would attribute this in part to the all Americans vs likely voter polls, if other likely (And registered) voter polls looked a lot more like the Rasmussen numbers, but they don't seem to. Looks to me like Rasmussen consistently put net approval at about 15 to 20 points less than almost everyone else. Unless there's some sort of mass pollster conspiracy here, or seems to me most likely Rasmussen is the one with a foot on the scale.

Matt said...

Yes, I know the word is "pollster". That was a typo.

TommyReport said...

Matt,

"TommyReport: As has been pointed out again and again, daily tracking polls for an election and opinion polls are two different animals, as the final daily tracking point is aimed at predicting the election outcome, and an accurate result can then be used for the next 4 (Or 8) years to argue what a good poller you are. There is no "right" answer to compare job approval rating polls against."

As I have explained again and again, Rasmussen's tracking poll was a model of consistency during the election compared to Daily Kos/Research 2K and the hilarious gallup tracking poll showing Obama winning by double-digits, a completely laughable proposition.

Let's just compare the stability of the Rasmussen tracking poll with that of the Daily Kos/Research 2K poll:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/how_did_we_do

"Down the stretch, the race was remarkably stable. Rasmussen Reports showed Obama receiving either between 50% of the vote and 52% for the last 40 days of Election 2008. The ranged tightened a bit during the final two weeks--Obama received either 51% or 52% of the vote on 13 of the last 14 days.

For McCain, the numbers stayed between 44% and 47% of the vote for the final forty days of the campaign. He was at 46% or 47% of the vote every day for the final nine days of the tracking poll.

This consistency is important because it reflects the reality around us. When it comes to selecting a President, the overwhelming majority of Americans do not change their minds on a daily basis. Any poll showing volatility should automatically be viewed with caution.

The final major event of Election 2008 was the Wall Street meltdown following the collapse of Lehman Brothers. By late September, the campaign looked just as it did on Election Day. On every day but one of the final 40 days, Rasmussen Reports showed Obama with a 4 to 8 point lead, neatly bracketing the actual result reflected in our final poll."

Now check out the Daily Kos/Research 2K trendline:

http://www.dailykos.com/trendlines

So as of October 11, Obama led McCain by 13 but somehow that gap closed to 5 points in its final pre-election poll?

Sarah Palin was a -25 in terms of net favorables/unfavorables on October 24th and somehow jumped to -11 in its final pre-election poll?

So you tell me Matt who was more interested in its final poll between Rasmussen and Kos/Research 2K? Rasmussen's final poll wasn't all that different from his polling for 40 days. Kos/Research 2K somehow went from a 13-point Obama lead on October 11th to a final poll showing a 5-point lead for Obama. Wow, John McCain and Sarah Palin really closed on Barack Obama according to Kos eh?

Alex S. said...

Isn't the problem of this whole debate that the progressives have jumped towards the public option even though it was not meant to be in the center of the debate? After all, it's not really the Republicans making problems. It's the disorder between the Democrats. And now you have a point where progressives don't want to go without a public option, and moderates don't want to go with one. I'm not sure that Obama could do anything about it. Well, maybe he should have been content with incremental change, but he might have brought the public option into play to test the waters and see how much the country has moved to the left - and then it turned out that it has moved somewhat, but not enough. So I agree that Progressives have misunderstood the 2008 election, and Obama must have known that the public option was/is a risky endeavour, but he is willing to accept a small loss there. It would be his first loss and would take away his "nimbus", so maybe that's why the past 2 days have been so nervous on the Democratic side.

Bryce said...

Tommy:

Rasmussen is a decent pollster when it's verifiable. Right now there's nothing to validate his polls against(except against other polls) because there's no real election, so Rasmussen, being a Republican, is using his polls as a PR machine because he can get away with it. When you compare his numbers to other pollsters his numbers are far far off.

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/fav-obama.php

Look how dramatically off he is on a simpler favorability poll.

Paul Silver said...

I tend to believe that Obama is an incrementalist. Moving the ball forward in the right direction in all possible areas.

Alex S. said...

A suggestion,
now that it is clear that Grassley will not vote for his own bill even if it contains everything he wants (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/17/2032642.aspx), now that Senator Burr has demanded to keep the private sector private (which is probably a statement against non-profit co-ops - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/17/14299/2252), and now that the insurance lobby and their handlers are even calling co-ops socialism (http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=25567#comments),
isn't it clear that the insurance companies are allied with the republicans and will not accept any deal at all? Aren't the only Republicans you can get on your side Olympia Snowe and maybe Susan Collins? Isn't Olympia Snowe's idea of a public option with a trigger (maybe co-ops as the base model?) the best, or even the only way to get to 60 votes? Progressives might expect the insurance companies to fail these standards, and so, a public option might be in reach, from their point of view. Co-op fans will trust their idea and so there will be no public option, from their point of view. That's the only idea I see to get 58/59 Democratic votes and maybe 1 or 2 republican votes...

markymark said...

First off I wonder if the Democrats aren't being a bit clever with the hedging on a public option. If the public option isn't in the final bill, and gets tacked on as an amendment, then it will force Senators to vote on both the rest of the bill and the Public Option. Republicans can't then hide behind the 'socialized medicine' meme alone. But also wavering Democrats will be forced to commit on the public option. That at least puts Dems with Presidential ambition into a bind, but also those from more progressive states possibly as well.

As for TommyReport, we have already worked out that Ras's presidential approval numbers are out of whack with everyone else. That not to say there aren't liberal outliers as well, but my Reading is that Obama is running pretty average for this time in a Presidency. (Roughly 53-54 being average). I think Deval Patrick may turn out to be a useful barometer to measure Obama against, remembering that no African American has won statewide re election in American history. I don't quite no why Patrick is doing so badly right now, but as I understand it, his reelection numbers look ok, if not great, despite that.

honeycutt said...

Nate: we elected George W. Bush once. One time.

loner said...

Off-Topic:

Nine pollsters polled in nine or more states in the ten days prior to the election. More than one of the nine polled in 29 states. Determination of who was "closest" to the true result in those 29 states is based on polling/victory margin followed (where there were ties) by candidate percentages. Ties remained in Georgia, Michigan, Missouri and North Carolina so the "closest" total is 34.

Closest is bolded, off by more than 5% is italicized and lone pollster is after the dash(-).

ARG (14 states, 2 closest, 4 off by over 5%, 0 lone pollster)

Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Indiana, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia


CNN/Time (10 states, 4 closest, 2 off by over 5%, 0 lone pollster)

Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia


Mason-Dixon (15 states, 0 closest, 4 off by over 5%, 1 lone pollster)

Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia - Utah


PPP (15 states, 7 closest, 2 off by over 5%, 0 lone pollster)

Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia


Rasmussen (27 states, 6 closest, 6 off by over 5%, 1 lone pollster)

Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota and Virginia - Maine


Research 2000 (18 states, 5 closest, 4 off by over 5%, 2 lone pollster)

Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, New Jersey, North Carolina, Oregon, South Dakota, West Virginia and Wisconsin - North Dakota and Vermont


Strategic Vision (9 states, 3 closest, 1 off by over 5%, 0 lone pollster)

Florida, Georgia, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Washington and Wisconsin


Survey USA (23 states, 4 closest, 7 off by over 5%, 5 lone pollster)

California, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin - Alabama, Delaware, Kansas, Massachusetts and South Carolina


Zogby (9 states, 3 closest, 1 off by over 5%, 0 lone pollster)

Florida, Indiana, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia

Also, final results for Federal Elections 2008 are now available. Since last report, the President picked up 41,619 of the additional 76,217 votes reported. Senator McCain picked up 13,509 votes. Most of the additional votes for the major-party candidates came from New York (of course) and Ohio. The third-party votes from Pennsylvania (18,135 of them) were finally added back. There were additional votes in Colorado, Connecticutt, Georgia, Idaho, Kentucky, Montana and Rhode Island and a 680 reduction in the Illinois vote total.

The President won with 52.93% of the 131,313,820 recorded votes. His final margin-of-victory over Senator McCain is 9,550,193 votes (7.27%).

Patrick said...

Doesn't anyone remember what the "so-called" major problem with Clinton's political strategy was in 1993? Wait for it...

Clinton cut Congress out of the loop and was too heavy-handed in his participation in the process...

These are all post-hoc explanations to help us avoid the fundamental truth: our political process is broken.

jinchi said...

There are a few of Obama's liberal critics who could stand to recognize this. The Senate, with its filibuster rule, small-state bias, and committee and seniority structure, is a slow-moving, change-resistant, lower-case "c" conservative institution.

I get a little tired of these lectures from progressives explaining why nothing can be accomplished. We know all about the rules of the Senate because the Democrats have been beating this drum for the last 8 years now.

I heard the Democrats wringing their hands in frustration because it was impossible to stop Bush's agenda when Bill Frist had 51 Republicans in the Senate. Democrats just didn't have the numbers to stop anything, then so they joined Republicans in approving his budgets, his war funding, his bankruptcy bill and civil liberties restrictions.

Then they won Congress in 2006, but they told us they still couldn't accomplish anything because Bush had the veto. (They went on to rubber stamp his war funding bill and his expansions of Executive authority with the FISA bill).

Then they insisted that they needed, just absolutely needed 60 Democratic Senators and a Democratic President to be able to move an agenda forward. We were told to welcome Lieberman back to the fold with Seniority, all is forgiven. Specter and Franken join the caucus and now?....

You tell me you need 10 more Senators.

Jim said...

Slasher 14 is dead on in his contrast of the situations FDR and BHO inherited. If more people felt 1932 desperation about health care, the public option would pass easily. It is a much harder sell than many on our side acknowledge.

Walker said...

A Republican critique of Obama from a purely political stand-point:

- Obama is way, way too passive. He has let Congress define policy specifics to a rediculous degree. He needs to assert himself more and steer legislation. Actually, I think many in congress would welcome it.

- Axelrod has proven himself a super-deft campaign manager but the guy is flopping around as a senior policy/political adviser in the WH. Probably a lot of the unforced errors Obama has suffered over the last few months are directly attibutable to him. The flash.gov stuff is probably his handiwork. Obama needs to gently ask him to leave. He needs a more seasoned DC insider, preferably someone more moderate, like a Gergen.

- Obama is not using the bully pulpit well. Clinton was so much better at this, the righteous anger and tongue-lashing. Say what you will, the man had passion! Obama, maybe due to his careful awareness of his uniqueness as a president, is very uncomfortable showing anger. This limits his effectiveness.

- Regarding policy, he needs to settle on a bill that includes 3-5 simple communicable precepts that he can sell to the American people. He needs to quickly line up a bill that accomplishes 60-75% of what Democrats want (portability, an individual mandate, a co-op of some kind), pass the thing, AND MOVE ON.

- Move on to what? Not cap and trade, which is a liberal wet dream but an abomination as policy (interesting that the Australian parliament voted their version of C&T down last week). Move on to something that could make a true, immediate difference in the lives of millions of Americans and also help polically in a big way. Comprehensive immigration reform. This could be a huge win or Obama and also garner quite a few Repubican votes.

Alan Williamson said...

The United States is run by the rich for the rich. Getting Universal Healthcare for all citizens is a though row to hoe. At one time, the Republicans were against the 40 hour work week. Many people died in protests to create a better life for others. Thanks to the hard work and persistence of Union protesters and FDR, things changed. On Healthcare reform, to settle or compromise for half a plan will not work. It will fail. With co-ops, Health Partners in Minnesota is one of the most expensive insurance policies. I would like to pay my $800 a month to Medicare Insurance.

markymark said...

One good thing has happened in the last few days. We've moved away from the tea bagging 'no' to anything crowd moving the debate, and the left's queesiness on how the President has been handling all of the healthcare debate has come to the fore. This of course leads to a far more relevant debate, given where the power in congress is.

I am still confident that in the end, the public option WILL happen. I've said often that there is too much invested in it, for Democrats, to just abandon it. But I think a few days and weeks of debating things like co-ops will give people the chance to make the case for the public option. I think it is worth the left going back to Reagan railing against medicare and medicaid in the 60s, and reminding people of the opposition to those programs. And its good to see the left reenergised for the first time for a while in defence of the public option.

MN said...

I have to agree, he has skipped out on those tough choices and is catching flak for it.

But when has he ever had to make a tough choice before? Who knew he didn't have the spine for it.

Phil said...

At this point my concern is not whether Obama succeeds or fails at playing President. The country needs health care reform and needs a strong public option. For Obama and his group to begin backing off at this point illustrates inexperience and lack of confidence in their own abilities to accomplish things. Incidentally, the success of a strong health care reform bill would put one more nail in the Republican coffin. Sunrise is here; it's time for those boys to get back in their box.

gk22 said...

They are both wrong.

The problem is in the Senate, not the WH.

This is the usual chatter from politicos because they like to make "crises" and talk about them.

Sacto Joe said...

Jim said...
Slasher 14 is dead on in his contrast of the situations FDR and BHO inherited. If more people felt 1932 desperation about health care, the public option would pass easily. It is a much harder sell than many on our side acknowledge.

I concur. Very cogently put.

Harper said...

It sure is easy to throw stones, isn't it?

I sure as hell am happy that John McCain isn't calling the shots right now. The DJIA would probably be around 4 or 5k, and unemployment would be at 15%. And we'd be at war with Iran, following that disputed election.

Furthermore, the progressive contingent is blind to reality. Those independents who pushed Obama over the top are soft support. That's who Obama is placating with a move to the middle... not the republicans.

Bart DePalma said...

Nate:

The explanation for Mr. Obama's rapid loss of effectiveness in not all that complicated:

1) Obama and all of his team apart from Rahmbo are green and incompetent. During his entire short career in DC, Obama has been campaigning. He has never assembled a majority and enacted legislation. His team is almost all from Chicago and does not know DC. I have not seen a Congress dominate an outsider President this badly since Carter.

2) Obama's only enactment of contested legislation was the Porkulus bill. Obama's only contribution to enacting this legislation was to panic the markets into a 15% swan dive with tales of an imminent Great Depression. Even then, Pelosi still had to break arms in the Blue Dog caucus to barely get this monstrosity passed.

3) Apart from appearing at town hall meetings, it is hard to see that Obama is doing much of anything to enact Obamacare or Cap and Tax. As a point of contrast, Reagan personally met with and continuously worked the phones to convince dozens of Yellow Dog Dems to buck their leadership and vote for his tax reform.

P said...

The end of health care is part of the usual Democratic campaign strategy of, "Hey! Let's go into a coma!" In selling health care, Obama has become Michael Dukakis.

IAmMrZebra said...

There's something I just don't get, and maybe I'm missing something.

It seems pretty clear to me that the Republican party will vehemently oppose ANY legislation that the Obama administration or Democrats in congress support. (Without party leadership and actual ideas of your own, what else can you do?). That said, why should the Blue Dogs be so worried about passing a liberal initiative? Is it that they think conservatives will run against them on it? That logic seems flawed to me, becuase they must realize that, whatever they do, the Republicans will run against them on it anyway. I for one would much rather be attacked for having passed meaningful, albeit controversial, reform than be attacked for having stalled out and produced nothing.

So what's their deal? Is it simply the lobbying dollars that have made up their minds?

shiloh said...

Bart DePalma said...

Nate:

The explanation for Mr. Obama's rapid loss of effectiveness in not all that complicated:

1) Obama and all of his team apart from Rahmbo are green and incompetent. During his entire short career in DC, Obama has been campaigning. He has never assembled a majority and enacted legislation. His team is almost all from Chicago and does not know DC. I have not seen a Congress dominate an outsider President this badly since Carter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


hmm, Obama became the 44th President of the United States of America by a 9.5 million vote margin, doing better than any Dem since LBJ in '64, in a country that has a 400 year history of racial oppression because he's incompetent? btw, Rahmbo was not part of his campaign. How did these "idiots" fool America.

No, but what is quite evident ie "not all that complicated" to see is that you are a die hard Rep, still trying to spin away the Reps current situation and thanx for bringing up the but, but, but Carter meme.

Yea, Reps fetish w/all thing Carter/Clinton to this day is highly amusing after the last (8) years of cheney/bush incompetency/corruption. Obama said he would "try" to be bi-partisan, so for the moment he is trying to work w/Grassley et al. At some point in time he will probably stop this futility and the Dems will go it alone, but at least he can say he tried in good faith to work w/the party of No!

And as markymark said there is no final health care bill yet, so maybe, just maybe "we" should wait and see what is and is not in the final bill, hey what a concept!

but BD, it's your constitutional right to keep on spinning ...

yea, Obama was (30) pts. behind in Iowa to Hillary and ended up winning the caucus and speaking of BD's Carter fetish. Carter was over (30) pts. ahead of Ford in '76 and almost lost the election. Obama is not your grandma's Democrat and he is still president for another 3 er 7 years! looking at the sorry ass field of Rep "leaders" that bares a striking resemblence to McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Kerry ie Palin, Santorum, Jindal, Sanford, Ensign, Huckabee, Mittens.

take care

p.s. BD, did you enjoy my spin. See, everyone can spin at 538. Ain't it great!

J. Scott said...

President Obama has figured out that its a mistake for "The President" to lead on some things. Especially very large, domestic issues. Such as Healthcare. That just gives everyone who doesn't want to do a thing, on both sides, an out to blame "The President" for everything. And then not do it; playing it safe.

I think he's doing healthcare reform exactly right. Set principles. Address prferences, then allow the legislative process, as messy as it is, play itself out. Jump in at the appropriate time near the end, for the "final" push.

In his last Press Conference, President Obama said,"This is not about me. I HAVE excellent healthcare. Its about you."

And by "you" he means Congress and the American People. He'll help out quite a bit. But, WE have to drive this.

Otherwise, it means nothing.

It just another thing somebody else did FOR us.

Write your Representatives. Call them. Write your Senators. Call them. Write a blog. Leave comments on a blog. Organize your community. Etc Etc.

Get involved and get it done.

Alon Levy said...

Jon Eric:

How old are those stastistics? Most Americans get health insurance from their jobs, and with so many Americans losing their jobs (and with so many of those no longer searching to replace those jobs - by joining the army, by going back to school, by starting their own businesses), as well as the growing number of businesses that don't offer health care to their employees, I find it difficult to believe that only 15% of us are uninsured.

The statistics are pre-recession. But the uninsured rate doesn't rise too much in recessions - it didn't jump in the early 2000s, and actually increased slightly during the 1990s' boom.

Even if I'm wrong here and the uninsured rate is 20%, making a moral case won't work. The Democrats have to make some sort of practical argument: cost, less pain during unemployment, easier ability to start a business, better care, etc.

Personally I'd rather the Democrats combined concerns about care with concerns about cost, since right now the Republicans are convincing people that US health care is expensive but good. But even the cost argument alone has gotten the Democrats closer to universal health care than Bob Shrum's moral persuasion did.

Anna said...

Forcing the purchase of insurance by all without any means for keeping the insurance companies honest when most local insurance markets are de facto monopolies (in part because of the difficulty of assembling a network of providers) is a significant gift to insurance company profits but unlikely to greatly improve health care here in America.

The history of bigotry in America may be hampering President Obama's willingness to directly attack the falsehoods being promulgated by the Republican Party and their right wing allies for fear of activating the angry black stereotype. He had a brief encounter with that meme through an unguarded word choice when the Cambridge police managed to arrest the householder.

Davy said...

Jon Eric told this fable,

"Two men are sitting on a curb on a cold February day in D.C.

One man has a jacket. The other does has a knife.

"Let's compromise," says the man without the jacket. "I'll cut your jacket in half, so you can keep half, and give me half."

A continuance of said fable:

The other man says, "well that really doesn't do either of us much good"

So the first man says, "Well, then perhaps I'll just stab you with my knife and take your jacket".

Wherin the second man reluctantly caves into the original useless demand.

Bart DePalma said...

shiloh said...

Bart DePalma said... Obama and all of his team apart from Rahmbo are green and incompetent. During his entire short career in DC, Obama has been campaigning. He has never assembled a majority and enacted legislation. His team is almost all from Chicago and does not know DC. I have not seen a Congress dominate an outsider President this badly since Carter.

hmm, Obama became the 44th President of the United States of America by a 9.5 million vote margin, doing better than any Dem since LBJ in '64, in a country that has a 400 year history of racial oppression because he's incompetent?


Obama is an experienced, talented and highly successful campaigner. However, that does not make him experienced and competent at governing. These are two very different things as Mr. Obama is learning right now.

shiloh said...

BDP

as I said, it's your constitutional right to keep on spinning ...

take care

Dr Zen said...

1. Obama is a lot easier to understand if you stop thinking he's any sort of progressive. He's more like a Third Way social democrat: they will do what broader society needs in the service of money, but they aren't actually serving broader society.
2. Not having a public option is not a policy of the "middle". People have to stop saying that. It's not a compromise to drop it: it's a sellout. The thing is, Obama's idea of "change" is the business-school idea that managerialists love: it's not work towards a principle, but fiddling for the sake of it. Getting a few more people covered would be nice, and sure he's going to proclaim that's his target, but he's not leading with the heart. Compare his promises with those of New Labour in the UK in 1997. They had a list of five targets, quite ambitious, that they said they should be judged on in their first term. They still haven't met even one of them, and they never will. Their governance has mostly been make-work. The UK would have been better off if they had done basically nothing at all for 12 years.
3. Most centrist governments have brought in stimulus that has been both proportionately bigger and more frankly rewarding to the masses than Obama's.

Michael said...

Let's give the president time, he can not change the world in this short period of time....you think?

Funeral Program Templates

Walker said...

This is the time where I would like to announce the formation of 538.com's very first pan-contributor political alliance, a motley crew of like-minded right-leaning paragons:

Knights of the New Republic, or K.O.N.R.

Months in planning over feverish sessions where copious amounts of beer and spirits were consumed, the K.O.N.R. endeavors, from this moment on, to propel the discussion on these boards towards a re-invigorated Reaganite/Thatcherism.

Members as now, but growing:

Walker,
Missy @ itsalmostnaptime,
Pete Kent, and
Brian DePalma

Motto: Verum in Factum

Official Soundtrack: "Sheep" by the Housemartins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSBFkIKx46E

Are you in...or are you in?

GbThrone said...

Pretty much spot on about the President's lack of legislative experience. Remeber that FDR and LBJ both had extensive careers in elected public service before gaining the Presidency. Obama has benefitted from the same gut-level voting instinct that put Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Bush II into the White House. The electorate has a tendency to "love an outsider", who is not part of the "Washington Establishment". Unfortunately, the last extremely bright "outsider" who lacked significant political and legislative experience was the last Democratic single termer, Jimmy Carter.

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