8.07.2009

Economic Headlines You Won't See on The Drudge Report



-- Job losses slowed to 247,000, their lowest total since a year ago, beating expectations by roughly 100,000.
-- The unemployment rate actually *declined* to 9.4 percent from 9.5
percent.
-- May and June job loss estimates have been revised *downward*.
-- Hourly earnings improved.
-- The average workweek lengthened, particularly in manufacturing.
-- The manufacturing sector added jobs on a seasonally-adjusted basis.
-- The NASDAQ will open today about 33 percent higher than when Obama took office.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

These numbers do not point toward a "good" economy. Some of them, like the decline in the unemployment rate, are even a bit misleading, since some of that has occurred because a lot of dispirited job seekers have given up on looking for work.

But they do speak unambiguously toward an economy which has almost certainly bottomed out and has probably begun to improve. It is more likely to be a slow recovery than a fast one, especially in employment, but this is arguably the best news that Obama has had since taking office.

I said two weeks ago that if the job loss number declined to 250,000 or so, it would be a game-changer. I was not making a prediction about what the employment numbers would look like. I was merely saying that if this occurred, it would probably be enough to change the tenor of the debate in Washington. Republicans have to be very careful now about not overplaying their hand on health care.

115 comments

brown said...

He does have the 9.4% up. But he's otherwise too busy reporting on "union thugs" and the most recent town hall spectacles.

Bradford said...

Please don't site to Drudge! EVER!

This is very good news, and dems should trumpet it from the highest mountaintops. It also likely means we will avoid 10% unemployment. That said, we are in for a jobless recovery. That said, get in the market if you have not stayed in (as I did).

Mark said...

You could do about 20 posts a day pointing out Drudge's negative spin on everything Obama, but the real concern is the media that still picks up on his dubious framing and prioritization.

Rudy said...

How gauche to try to take political credit for "better-than-expected" numbers while the economy is still shedding massive amounts of jobs and all policies are still hostile to economic growth.

The rally in the stock market is rebound from the dressing down it took once it became apparent Obama was going to be elected and the resulting panic that his policies would be disasterous for the economy.

Each jump in the market has coincided with lessening fear of the impact of Obama's economic policies -- first, in March to not being in position to raise taxes, then in May to no cap and trade, then July to the demise of the health care legislation. The next move in the market will be recognition that the voting tide has turned and that he will no longer be in position to stifle growth.

John said...

Some of them, like the decline in the unemployment rate, are even a bit misleading


I thought the u6 number accounted for this? Am I wrong, because this number dropped from 16.5 to 16.3 as well. Someone please correct me if I'm missing something.

Obliterati said...

I feel like a tool for defending Matt Drudge, but I would point out that economic downerism appears to have broad bipartisan appeal.

There is a whole pack of liberal bloggers, most notably Atrios, who are matching Drudge blow-for-blow in their quest to become Pessimist Supreme.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Not bad Nate.

Just wondering, did you do something similar to what I had on my blog regarding job losses?

Probably not that simple I'd guess.

John said...

Rudy, go back on the meds buddy, maybe double the dose if they don't work, adults are trying to talk here, your lack of thinking is stifling our ability to do so...Stupidty and complete, mind numbing hatred can't seem to be un taught in the likes of you...But please, none of us should be forced to listen to it...

Howard said...

It's great to see that unemployment isn't going up, but it's also not exactly exciting that it's a result of fewer people seeking jobs...

markymark said...

Rudy said
'The rally in the stock market is rebound from the dressing down it took once it became apparent Obama was going to be elected and the resulting panic that his policies would be disasterous for the economy.'
-------------------------

Hold on, I thought it was the markets tanking that caused McCain's poll numbers to flatline? Is this just another case of Republicans trying to rewrite history to fit the current conditions?

Jeff@Catalist said...

This is terrific news..... particularly as members of Congress head home to find hecklers at their town hall meetings. The health bill just became more likely to get passed!

Brandon said...

That's actually all in the link provided by Drudge...

Kevin said...

Re: Your comment on the dip in unemployment being misleading due to people leaving the workforce...

"If laid-off workers who have given up looking for new jobs or have settled for part-time work are included the unemployment rate would have been 16.3 percent in July. That's down from 16.5 percent in June, which was the the highest on records dating to 1994." -AP


Apparently, even if these dispirited workers were included, the unemployment rate would STILL have dropped.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'd say that the dip in unemployment rate is less misleading than you suppose.

Bradford said...

Brandon-

Note that Drudge linked to an article with a first paragraph that downplays the change as much as possible. Reuters and AP sometimes compete for the best right wing spin to get the Drudge link and drive traffic, truly sad.

Rudy,

Keep making stuff up, I have a new slogan for the Republican Party - JUST BECAUSE THEY MAKE IT ALL UP DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT TRUE!

andy r said...

"Republicans have to be very careful now about not overplaying their hand on health care. "

why. what does that have to do with anything in the article

Peter said...

@Rudy

Mmmmmmmmm ... that's good spin.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Todd Dugdale said...

wingnut logic: If the market goes down, it's because Business is terrified of Obama's programme of forced socialism. He must be stopped.

If the market goes up, it's because Business doesn't take the Obama Administration seriously and believe that he can't get anything done. He is a joke.

The wingnuts can't seem to decide if Obama is a ruthless Stalinist with devious and sinister plans, or if he is an incompetent non-leader lacking even a pretence of authority.

They don't really need to decide between the two, of course. Each can be dusted off and employed when it suits the wingnut agenda, and in each case the wingnut can say, "I told you so!".

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Cue the photo's of Obama face on FDR's body again.

Good times are ahead!

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Wow, Conservatives are screwed.

Rush isn't on for another two hours. What kind of nonsense will they come up with until he provides them all those distractions as to why Geither, Obama and Bernanke's policies didn't work.

Mark said...

Interesting to compared Drudge to HuffingtonPost who headlined (on the same basic story): "BETTER THAN EXPECTED Unemployment Rate Drops For First Time In 15 Months"

Everyone spins, though arguably some "spin" is more accurate than others and sometimes facts are called spin by someone's spin

PorridgeGun said...

So, what's everyone doing inauguration day 2013? Where are you watching Obama get sworn in for a second term?


CONFIRMED: Pakistan's Taliban leader killed

http://www.americablog.com/2009/08/confirmed-pakistans-taliban-leader.html#disqus_thread

PorridgeGun said...

BREAKING RASMUSSEN POLL: Obama at 24% approval rating, lowest of any President in the history of Kenya, I mean, the United States of America!

LFC said...

John said... I thought the u6 number accounted for this? Am I wrong, because this number dropped from 16.5 to 16.3 as well. Someone please correct me if I'm missing something.

Nate, John is correct in this. U6 takes into account the long-term unemployed, and therefore is the broadest indicator of real unemployment.

To see all the unemployment measures, go to Nate's BLS link and click on Table A-12: Alternative measures of labor underutilization. I always look at U6. I think U3 can grossly understate unemployment, and is useless during a recession when long-term job loss is common.

BTW, the dishonest right during the dark Bush years would compare U3 to Germany's announced unemployment figures, which were calculated much more like U6. As a result, they trumpeted U.S. unemployment as being better than Germany's, when in fact it was worse. Lying liars...

nova_middle_man said...

Good news. We still have to keep things in perspective. Remember all the hooplah over the green shoots from back in the spring. If you think about it thats what dragged down Obama. People thought things were getting better and then bam bad news and Obamas started to slip.

To the partisans look its always the same good news its all your guy bad news your guy had nothing to do with it.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Obama: "I love those folks who helped get us in this mess, and suddenly they say, "This is Obama's economy." That's fine. Give it to me. My job is to solve problems, not stand on the sidelines and carp and gripe."

In a speech at Macomb Community College in Warren, Mich. July 14th.

Vern said...

Dems have to be just as careful about positioning this. The meme of "not focused enough on the economy" has already taken hold. If they start cheering too loudly and move right back to other issues, they'll look a lot like Bush I cheering the end of the recession.

The connection between economic recovery and Health Care Insurance Reform, Cap and Trade or almost any other major issue right now just has not been made at all.

PorridgeGun said...
This post has been removed by the author.
PorridgeGun said...

OBAMA SIGNS $2 BILLION CASH FOR CLUNKERS BILL


Wow, what a difference between how Bloomberg News reports this to the FOX Propaganda Nutwork.

Bloomberg: "Cash for Clunkers proved so popular, it ran out of money."

NutellaonToast said...

Oh for the love of god please do not tell people that the economy has almost certainly bottomed out.

FFS.

PorridgeGun said...

BTW, fair analysis, Nate.


What this feels like, is that the wreckage of the Bush-Cheney/GOP created recession has more or less been cleaned up, and now the focus is on employers and job creation. Before, there was uncertainty, Now, the pathway has been cleared, it's all about getting people back to work.


Bottom line remains, Obama has to drop the hammer (everytime I say that he never does it) and push through a robust public plan.

PorridgeGun said...

nova_middle_man said...

Good news. We still have to keep things in perspective. Remember all the hooplah over the green shoots from back in the spring. If you think about it thats what dragged down Obama. People thought things were getting better and then bam bad news and Obamas started to slip.




Back then, Krugman, and especially Roubini, weren't buying it. But now Roubini has lightened up a bit and says he sees light at the end of the tunnel.

Saint Dude said...

Rudy said, "The next move in the market will be recognition that the voting tide has turned and that he (Obama) will no longer be in position to stifle growth."

Hehe.

Then you better hope your screaming compatriots are not too successful. After all if there is another leg up in the markets, we will officially be in a bull market and lots of people are going to be pretty darn happy with the state of things.

By your wacky "logic" Dems should hope that things get a little bit worse for Obama, because then things are going to get a whole lot better. Cool.

PorridgeGun said...

BLOOMBERG and CNBC: "Euphoria" on the stock room floor. "European stocks on tear as well!"



Socialism Baby!

Richard said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Richard said...

Sorry, I made a mistake and it was eating at me...

I know this is horribly off-topic, but does anyone know if Crist can appoint himself offhand? I would prefer not to have to search through Florida statutes.

Or maybe he'll appoint a weak Dem candidate, someone he can destroy next year. That would be kind of crazy.

PeteKent said...

For the past 19 months the economy has been losing rather than gaining jobs. Economists say that we need to add 250,000 jobs each month simply to keep pace with population growth. So from an employment perspective we are not out of the woods yet.

In April this became the longest economic downturn in American history since the great Depression. It was to be expected that the natural order of the business cycle (mostly related to inventory moves) would result in an abatement of the pace of job loss.

There are now fully 10% of the American people on Food Stamps -- the highest percentage in the history of the program. There is still plenty of misery out there. You don’t hear about it because the media is focused on making Obama look good, so there are only upbeat anecdotal, positive stories about "FUN-employment" and little about the true suffering of the millions of unemployed.

In the July jobs number it was reported that the number of long-term unemployed -- those out of work for more than 15 months -- continued to rise. This matches what we saw in the weekly jobless claims number yesterday which showed yet another rise in the number of continuing claims, even as new claims fell. Thus the picture is not entirely upbeat.

As Nate notes, the unemployment rate dropped not because more people are working but because more people became discouraged and have stopped looking for work. Thus they don’t get counted as "unemployed".

Most of the esoterica of these numbers will not perk down to the people who feel the privation of loss whether it be the loss of their jobs, the loss in their investments or the lost in their home values.

Economists remain convinced that unemployment will remain high and we may have only seen a blip in its march upward. And there is widespread fear that what we will see is either an L or W shaped recovery and not the V that has been traditionally anticipated. Most would predict a rather anemic and jobless recovery. Obama has done little to encourage private sector growth and his policies seemed designed to thwart rather than enhance job creation in the private sector.


Bear in mind also that the apparent moderation in joblessness and the sense of the easing of the down turn is not to Obama’s credit --rather it is due to policies and actions that he had nothing to do with. His signature economic bill -- the Stim-U-Less -- is a laughing stock of pork that cannot even seem to get out of the gate and is likely to do little than fuel inflation as it begins to hit big time just as the economy begins its true ascent in 2010. It could be a recovery killer in such case. Prognosis negative for Democratic Party.

The question is, Are we facing robust Reagan-like growth or a return the stagflationary environment that destroyed the Carter Presidency?
Still, one has to be glad that there seems to be some light at the end of the tunnel here for our battered economy.
Now we can only hope that Obama does not extinguish that light with his misguided policies on Healthcare, Cap N' trade and Taxes and just about all else.

petekent01 (on twitter)

markymark said...

Anyone know exactly why Martinez is not seeing out his term? Seems odd decision! Maybe he realises that Palin's way is the way to go?

Anyhoo, Nate had a post about tax cuts which he appears to have taken down, but I wanted to make the point I made on that thread, which is that one thing the Obama administration is not great at doing at the moment is selling itself! I think that is one thing that they need to pick up there game on.

Cugel said...

"Republicans have to be very careful now about not overplaying their hand on health care."

Wrong! The Republican plan is simple:

They HAVE to destroy health care reform! If they allow Obama to pass a health care reform that actually works to make the lives of millions of Americans better they will be destroyed as a party for generations.

They will spend the next 50 years trying to UNDO "socialized medicine" and failing just the way they failed to destroy Social Security. It will be another huge government entitlement program that will make ordinary people think: "the government CAN do something right to make things better."

They must use every dirty trick in the book, but real reform MUST be defeated.

If it can be defeated, then they can all scream "we stopped Obama from turning old people into Soylent Green!"

If they can weaken it enough so that it is a huge disappointment to people when they see it doesn't provide real affordable health care, then they can all scream: "See! We told you GOVERNMENT health care doesn't work!"

It's a flat win-lose proposition for them. And they don't give a damn about how millions of people are depending on this!

The shape of the economy means NOTHING to them in this fight. It's literally life or death for the Republican party -- and they all know it!

Because once it passes, if it provides health care for millions of people it will be popular.

And if it's popular they will never succeed in overturning it. And Democrats will be able to run for decades on the theme "my opponent wants to take your health care away!"

It will mean another "New Deal" era for Democrats and permanent exile to the wilderness for Republicans.

capt said...

"Cugel said... "

Spot on

Word for word better than I could say it.

PeteKent said...

Polls show 70% of Americans are happy with their healthcare. There will be a huge price to pay if this government takeover is allowed to happen.

Obama will be forced to settle for some needed insurance reform. He can call it what he wants, but he ain't getting his takeover.

The people are seeing to that every day with their grassroots opposition to this mess he is trying to create.

How sad that now he is trying to call out the SEIU and other unions to stack the townhalls against the people.

What's next? His army of Brown Shirts?

Obama is the most dangerous authoritarian every to lead this nation. We should all be chilled -- not thrilled --to have him as our president.

And please don’t report me on his “snitch” line: flag@whitehouse.gov

Can you imagine a US President officially seeking informants like Josef Stalin or the Gestapo? There are actually laws against this dating from Richard Nixon’s enemies list. Say what you want, at least George Bush was only targeting the vermin, scum who attacked our nation.

Obama is going after the people who dare to criticize him.

Something “fishy” indeed!

petekent01 (on twitter)

David said...

If the unemployment stays under 10%, this will be huge for Obama. Especially since most people have been predicting recently that it will go over. So Obama would avoid the political consequences of a higher unemployment rate AND beat economic forcasts. This certainly will give him political muscle on health care and carbon emissions.

It may even help a bit with deficit projections.

markymark said...

Of course the other tactic the GOP could try is to try and take a positive role in coming up with a sensible healthcare reform bill and share in the credit. But of course that might mean just too much of a Road to Damascus change of heart.

The problem the GOP has is that is doesn;t know what to do with healthcare. It feels it can defeat the 'worst excesses' or most popular bits of healthcare reform (depending on your opinion). But at the same time it knows that is hard work. I wonder if the GOP hasn't had its high water mark on healthcare. Fairly soon after Congress returns a Healthcare bill will become apparent. It will have a public option, and it will be popular. It needs to be sold well (refer to above post), but it will be popular, and by November the President and the Democratic Party will be more popular again. Cue wins in Virginia and New Jersey and a further demoralised GOP. (Oooops think I got a bit carried away there! But the point stands that the healthcare bill will pass and will be popular).

markymark said...

PK said
'Polls show 70% of Americans are happy with their healthcare. There will be a huge price to pay if this government takeover is allowed to happen.'
--------------------------

Actually polls say
'62 - 32 percent in favor of giving people the option of a government insurance plan.'

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1357

Wonder how many of that 70% are on medicare or medicaid?

capt said...

"There are lots of valid criticisms that can be made against the health reform plans moving through Congress -- I've made a few myself. But there is no credible way to look at what has been proposed by the president or any congressional committee and conclude that these will result in a government takeover of the health-care system. That is a flat-out lie whose only purpose is to scare the public and stop political conversation. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/06/AR2009080603854.html?hpid=topnews

Richard said...

I'm confused. I thought the "Obama" health care plan was going to permit everyone to retain their current health care? So how does that take away any of the 70% who like it? And I'm pretty sure nobody is suggesting a government takeover of health care. PeteKent, could you please point me to where, in whichever congressional proposal you consider to be "ObamaCare" or whatever, it says such a thing?


No, Bush never ever spied on peaceful Quaker groups or a group, I shit you not, called the "Raging Grannies" or anything.

Obama? Authoritarian? Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, especially in his judicial philosophy, right? I mean, he says he supports, and appoints, pro-individual rights liberals who will block excessive police, executive, and legislative power. And he opposes the pro-government conservatives that fall over themselves to permit any legislative or executive act whatsoever (unless maybe its trying to help someone!). So you're clearly right, his opposition to authoritarian judges makes him an authoritarian.

I admit Obama needs to really step it up on the civil liberties issue, but I am CONSTANTLY AMAZED by conservatives crowing about how they are the voice of freedom when they entirely ignore anything outside of the tax, gun, and economic/environmental regulation when they talk about liberty. It's as if gay issues, religion in government, civil liberties, free speech, sexual liberties, and protections against police conduct aren't even real.

Let me make it is simple as possible. Go back and read 1984. For every time Big Brother is watching you, conducting surveillance, or when the Oceania police bust in, give Republicans one point. For every time Winston gets treated for free by a doctor or receives a social security disability check while in recovery, give the Dems a point. And whoever has the most points wins the "I hate Freedom" award.

Cugel said...

No, MarkyMark. Republicans CANNOT allow anything that will actually work to pass!

They will be destroyed if that happens!

It's like this:

Republican Talking Point: "Obama wants to EUTHANIZE old folks with government rationed care!"

Result: Old folks are frightened. "I don't want to be put out on the ice-flow by socialized health care!"

But, suppose the bill passes anyway. Suppose it then works to make health care affordable and prevent insurers from dropping you from your coverage.

Then NOTHING HAPPENS! Seniors are NOT left in the road to die (like Bush left the people of New Orleans).

Result: Republicans who spent all year screaming about how horrible this is will be thoroughly discredited and will be beaten like a gong at elections for years.

You just saw the immoral soulless hypocrisy of the Republican party with Pete Kent: "Obama will be forced to settle for some needed insurance reform. He can call it what he wants, but he ain't getting his takeover."

See, if publicly funded health care were so terrible, the SMARTEST thing Republicans could possibly do is let it pass! Just say "We predict a total disaster."

And then every Senate Republican abstains from voting so the bill can be brought to a vote. NO filibuster.

The bill passes and is a disaster, just as Republicans predicted. They run on repealing in in 2010, take over the Congress and defeat Obama in 2012.

Perfect way back to power, right? So WHY don't they all do that?

Answer: Because they've all got the moral responsibility of a vicious plague rat and their entire program from the right-wing radio blowhards, to the Astro-turf, insurance industry funded "protests" to their tea-bagger Brown Shirts (if anybody deserves the title it's them) is based totally on lies and deception. They're total liars and frauds!

Because if they really believed a public option would be such a terrible thing and have such negative results they could just step aside and let it pass -- and then run against Democrats for the next 30 years: "See what a disaster happens if you let Democrats get their way!"

They'll never in hell do this BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT WOULD BE WILDLY POPULAR AND WOULD WORK! Thus, they can't let it pass. That's all.

LFC said...

PeteKent said... Economists say that we need to add 250,000 jobs each month simply to keep pace with population growth.

Do you have a citation for that? I just find it "interesting" that the number literally doubled from the figure regularly cited when Bush was in office. Are there twice as many children becoming young adults now?

PeteKent said... As Nate notes, the unemployment rate dropped not because more people are working but because more people became discouraged and have stopped looking for work. Thus they don’t get counted as "unemployed".

Please follow my link to U6, and note that it too has dropped ... by 0.2%. If you don't know what U6 is, well, then you shouldn't be making uninformed statements like the one above.

As to all of the gray linings you mention, well you can thank the Bush Economy for those. Obama is cleaning up the second biggest economic mess that any new President has ever been handed. Throw in two wars, a destroyed international image, a DoJ in shambles, trying to fix healthcare (which the GOP has studiously obstructed for decades), etc., and I think he's been doing a heck of a lot.

I do find it interesting, however, that the right-wingers are slamming Obama because he hasn't cleaned up all of Bush's messes in 6 months, yet they blamed Clinton for 9/11 even though the Bush Administration dropped virtually all of his anti-terror, anti-AQ programs the instant they got in ... with disastrous consequences 9 months later.

The GOP. Avoiding any responsibility for their own actions for 30 years.

Bradford said...

Nah, it is even worse than that-

THE GOP - JUST BECAUSE THEY MADE IT ALL UP DOEN'T MEAN IT'S NOT REAL, DOES IT?

John said...

Asking for a citation of fact from peteKent is like asking the homeless guy screaming about the end of the world for his backup...You can't cite crazy, it just comes naturally

Saint Dude said...

@LFC,

"The GOP. Avoiding any responsibility for their own actions for 30 years."

Even Saint Reagan refused to take responsibility for the economy until the third year of his first term. About the time he started loosing his mind.

yiannis said...

Everybody's fascination for or against Drudge is a testament to how well his site is working.

I don't see Drudge as negatively as most of you even though I disagree with him.

PeteKent said...

Get your own citations, you lazy bitches.

Obama keeps saying you can keep what you got -- the problem is it won't last. There is a provision in the House Bill that requires you to switch from the public option should you want to change coverage or if you have to change coverage. Also, as everybody has figured out the public option will have the deck stacked in its favor in terms of cost and will drive the private insurers from the market.

Even the elderly are up in arms about this Bill. Your club footed "Dear Leader" has let it be known that he things societal good is served if we deny the elderly pacemakers and just dope them up with barbiturates.

And please don’t report me on his “snitch” line: flag@whitehouse.gov

Can you imagine a US President officially seeking informants like Josef Stalin or the Gestapo?

petekent01 (on twitter)

Alex S. said...

This tops a string of good news for Obama: Health-care bill compromise in the house, Clinton's North Korea mission, Cash-for-clunkers, the birther distraction, the death of the Taliban leader of Pakistan, and Sonia Sotomayor's confirmation.
I don't want to sound too optimistic but the Obama administration might have passed the worst. Of course, the Republica n motive to kill health-care reform is now bigger than ever, but good economic news, or actually, the lack of bad economic news, accompanied by little spots of success, should consolidate his poll numbers.

Pragmatus said...

Pete Kent…

Oh you poor thing!!!!

How can you continue to live when all your predictions are falling in ruins? You were so sure that unemployment would continue to skyrocket—how can you face yourself in the mirror? How can your mirror face you???

Quick—make up some new wildly asinine predictions, and before the week is out nobody will even remember your previous wildly asinine predictions.

Saint Dude said...

PK is simply spinning what has been known for months.

We are in the midst of a recession of historic proportions. The damage that has been done to the economy, i.e. the amount of wealth that has been destroyed, suggests that it is going to take a considerable amount of time to regain our footing.

PK is just trying to shift political blame for our current mess and future challenges.

The following article summarizes our current predicament quite well:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Why-Job-Creation-Will-Be-Iffy-cnbc-3174494677.html;_ylt=AnPo80JmuZAdcalJfYUA8wG7YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1b3BjNzk2BHBvcwMzBHNlYwN0b3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawN3aHlqb2JjcmVhdGk-?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=

The article provides plenty of hope for PK, but absolutely no justification for his interpretation of current policy.

Although the article does end with the following tidbit:

"By some estimates, the $789 billion stimulus package is creating 200,000-250,000 jobs a month. If so, that would put it on track to fulfill the Obama administration's goal of saving or creating 3.5 million jobs, which is about 2.7 percent of the total payrolls as of June.

Many of the plan's initiatives - from tax rebates to the cash-for-clunkers program to a homebuyer credit - are conventional tools meant to spur consumption, particularly of durable goods."

LFC said...

Get your own citations, you lazy bitches.

Ding! Ding! Ding! And John wins the "Pete Kent will never produce a citation" award. Nice prediction, John.

Obama keeps saying you can keep what you got -- the problem is it won't last. There is a provision in the House Bill that requires you to switch from the public option should you want to change coverage or if you have to change coverage. Also, as everybody has figured out the public option will have the deck stacked in its favor in terms of cost and will drive the private insurers from the market.

WAAAAAH! But I haven't heard a right-winger yet explain to me why it's a good thing for this country to have an inordinate amount of our GDP go to private health insurance profitability. If the public options provides the same coverage is that much cheaper, than f***, dude, I WANT IT! You are literally complaining that the gov't can do it better and cheaper because, if they couldn't, then the private insurance companies would have nothing to worry about.

BTW, read about the real story in Mass. (vs. the right-wingnut talking points). Universal healthcare has been successful, within budget estimates, and didn't drive people away from private healthcare insurance. So we have evidence and a track record. You have talking points the right made up. You lose.

Even the elderly are up in arms about this Bill. Your club footed "Dear Leader" has let it be known that he things societal good is served if we deny the elderly pacemakers and just dope them up with barbiturates.

You mean the elderly Tea Partiers screaming "NO SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, AND DON'T TOUCH MY MEDICARE!"? Looks like senility has crept in. And I like the new talking point you made up. More inventive than the broad euthanasia one your gang has been trying to push.

And please don’t report me on his “snitch” line: flag@whitehouse.gov

Snitching? That's what you call it when people report lies and misinformation on a topic that is important to a majority of Americans. Funny. You sound like a 6th grade bully who picked on a kid 30 pounds lighter, and then called him a "snitch" after he had to pay for his own behavior. Once again, a PRIME example of the right unable to take responsibility for their own actions, even at the individual level.

Can you imagine a US President officially seeking informants like Josef Stalin or the Gestapo?

"Dear people who think the right-wingnuts are lying about healtchare. You are Josef Stalin or a member of the Gestapo. Love, Pete Kent"

TOO FUNNY, DUDE!

To repeat and oft used line here, "better trolls, please."

KIC said...

And as we can see, President Obama could pull gold out of his ass, as well as jobs and people would find some way NOT to credit him, and to make it sound bad. Why are republicans so terrified of democrats?

shiloh said...

nova_middle_man said...

Good news. We still have to keep things in perspective.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Yes, actual political perspective:

The Dems trounced the Reps in '06

The Dems trounced the Reps in '08

The Reps will be trying really, really hard to break even in 2010!

This is the party of No! reality er perspective ...

carry on

Richard said...

Well the reason I wanted a citation is that I think google is broken. I keep trying to search for the part of the plan where the government takes over, and it just doesn't come up. Then I looked for the part where it requires euthanizing the elderly, and for some reason I can't find that either. Which is weird, because we all know that's in there somewhere.

I figured a direct citation would just be easier for everyone.

shiloh said...

PeteKent said...

Get your own citations, you lazy bitches.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


ok, this just struck me as funny coming from the kid at school nobody wanted to play with lol or as Casey Stengel would say, "You can look it up!"

Anyway PK's reality: He's a bs'er, he knows he's a bs'er, we know he's a bs'er, he knows we know he's a bs'er, and yet he keeps on bullshitting.

Somewhat amusing, but the repetition gets old very quickly ie PK is 538's wannabe court jester ...

ciao

nova_middle_man said...

Obama keeps saying you can keep what you got -- the problem is it won't last. There is a provision in the House Bill that requires you to switch from the public option should you want to change coverage or if you have to change coverage. Also, as everybody has figured out the public option will have the deck stacked in its favor in terms of cost and will drive the private insurers from the market.

WAAAAAH! But I haven't heard a right-winger yet explain to me why it's a good thing for this country to have an inordinate amount of our GDP go to private health insurance profitability. If the public options provides the same coverage is that much cheaper, than f***, dude, I WANT IT! You are literally complaining that the gov't can do it better and cheaper because, if they couldn't, then the private insurance companies would have nothing to worry about.

_________________________________

You know whats funny. Both of you are somewhat correct.

Here again is what I am waiting for.

Show me how a family with health insurance paying premiums at X amoung per year. What will happen with health reform. How much will the premium decrease. Until Democrats can actually articulate this this bill will continue (with good reason) to have problems.

The current trned of Democrats saying profits bad health insurance company bad is ridiculous. Show how much the average person will save. $ sells its one of the few things (tax cuts) the Republicans have left.

nova_middle_man said...

Dang posted too soon

Remember a majority of people are satisfied with their health insurance. Showing how much $ you will save is the only way to sell this.

markymark said...

PK I did use my own citation (62% in favor of a public option) and you haven't responded? I am interested in your opinion of that. Are 62% of the population deluded? How many of the 70% who are happy with their healthcare are already on some form of publicly provided healthcare? How many of those have had their pacemaker taken out, or not put in?

PK said
'as everybody has figured out the public option will have the deck stacked in its favor in terms of cost and will drive the private insurers from the market.'
----------------------------

Or in other words the private insurers will be forced to price themselves competitively, rather than through a cartel of price fixers and lawyers working out what costs the insurers can pass on to the claimant.

rone said...

Nate, what was the reason for your suggestion of 250k job losses? Why that particular number?

Saint Dude said...

@Nova,

Any estimate of how big the cost savings would have to be to get the lunatic birther anti-government fringe to fall behind the plan?

Thus far the entire opposition to reform is based on rather extreme ideological grounds. It is hard to imagine a dollar value that would allow these people to regain any semblance of sanity or decorum. If the projected savings were on the small side, they would scream that they were too insignificant to justify the march towards socialism. On the other hand if the projected savings were somewhat larger, they would just continue screaming that it is all just one big lie.

Facts don't matter. Projections don't matter. Ideology trumps all.

nova_middle_man said...

I agree there is too much ideology in this and that most Republicans wouldn't come around anyway.

I'm talking more about the independents who don't support the current bill. These people are actually swayed by facts. I guess maybe I am more of a numbers guy and I usually tend to lean Republican.

I'm just saying the shift of democrats to go after health insurnace companies as evil doesn't really convine me to support them. Focus on the positive aspects and don't resort to cheap negative stuff. I know OBamas isn't stupid I guess there is some poll that says attacking heatlh insurance companies is popular stuff. The whole populist anger movement I guess.

Bart DePalma said...

Nate:

Why would the GOP and Blue Dogs have to hold their fire on Obamacare because the United States "only" lost a quarter million jobs this month?

While we are on the subject of overreaching, I would suggest that it is the Obama gangster government who needs to call off its SEIU thugs from assaulting and intimidating Tea Party protestors at health care town hall meetings. Its hard to hide Chicago style thuggery when there are cell phone video cameras and Youtube. Sooner or later those clips will make the national news.

Saint Dude said...

Bart:

The ranting lunatics will continue looking like the "thugs" in this equation, unless the Ds get down in the mud and start participating in the craziness.

If you have footage of supposed D "thugs" on video, by all means provide a link. But as far as I can tell, if this is really a contest to see which side is more insane and more violent, your side has formidable lead.

Saint Dude said...

Hehe. "Obama gangster governmet". Man you are such a tool.

shiloh said...

Bart DePalma said...

Nate:

Why would the GOP and Blue Dogs have to hold their fire on Obamacare because the United States "only" lost a quarter million jobs this month?

While we are on the subject of overreaching, I would suggest that it is the Obama gangster government who needs to call off its SEIU thugs from assaulting and intimidating Tea Party protestors at health care town hall meetings. Its hard to hide Chicago style thuggery when there are cell phone video cameras and Youtube. Sooner or later those clips will make the national news.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Be afraid, be very afraid!

and sooner or later lol, if they existed they would be on faux news instantaneously.

take care, blessings

Jeff said...

This unemployment rate is a statistical lie. As always, discouraged workers are not considered part of the rate. But there were a massive number of these last month. Furthermore, despite the miracles of the porkulus, construction employment really took a hit.

As for the GOP ignoring "facts", this is a tad ironic from a liberal class that flayed Bush for years over jobs, even after the job market tipped into positive territory and remained there.

Obama simply is not putting his energies into growth policies and job creation. He is assuming ,perhaps rightly, that the recession will end of its own. Meanwhile, he'll push on with his social justice and enviro program, even if this dampens growth somewhat. All of this might have worked for him, if he weren't bankrupting the country. The economic problems he faces are big. But the fiscal problems he faces are much, much bigger. Here is where he faces real political peril.

Bart DePalma said...

Saint Dude/Shiloh:

Here some links concerning the SEIU assault on Kenneth Gladney at the St Louis townhall yesterday:

Video clip

A St. Louis Post-Dispatch story

Letter from the victim's attorney

From the Ybor City Tampa townhall meeting:

Video of the SEIU assault on a Tea Party protestor just outside the conference room filled with union members

A video clip of the assault victim outside.

This is your gangster government at work.

beavis said...

Get your own citations, you lazy bitches.

In intellectual debates the person making the claim is responsible for citations. Of course you are just talking out of your ass and parroting GOP talking points.

PK: confirming the GOP stereotype.

beavis said...

as everybody has figured out the public option will have the deck stacked in its favor in terms of cost and will drive the private insurers from the market.

Since you are in favor of an unfettered, survival of the fittest free market, then you should be in favor of reform.

You are too stupid to understand you just shot your position to pieces. You claim the government is not efficient, yet at the same time claim that the private insurers are not efficient enough to compete with the "inefficient government".

That might make sense from your view as an uneducated trailer dweller but your stance is a contradiction and thus fallacious.

On a side note, with all your predictions on this site over the past year or so, has even one been close?

John said...

Poor bart...You mean the victims own attorney saw it first hand...So this guy happens to always travel with his attorney close by??? How coincidental for him...And there happens to be video of him perfectly fine outside after the town hall, looking just fine, as his police force arrests and innocent journalist and a 51 year old for taking pictures...yeah, this is a story you want to get out, good luck with that one.

beavis said...

Why would the GOP and Blue Dogs have to hold their fire on Obamacare because the United States "only" lost a quarter million jobs this month?

Why is it you right wingers need everything spoon fed?

Hmm, lets see 250,000 more people who lost their job and likely have no health care so one misfortune and they are decimated financially and may never recover.

I wonder how that could possibly relate to health care reform and a public option? It is a head scratcher.

Alan said...

Rudy said: "How gauche to try to take political credit for "better-than-expected" numbers while the economy is still shedding massive amounts of jobs and all policies are still hostile to economic growth."

Really? All that stimulus money spent to encourage economic growth was wasted?

nova_middle_man said...

Peace out Yall

My work internship is over.

Its benn fun and interesting. But also sad and pathetic at times how hardheaded mayn of you are. Ask youselves have you ever criticized a democrat/republican. And no not being far left/right enough doesn't count. Must be easy when you vote just looking for a D or R after a name. No critical thought required. Thankfully it looks likey many of the hyper hyper partisans you are older and will die out pretty soon. Good riddance.

markymark said...

Can I please make a polite request that any liberals attending town meetings that the Teabagger community are trying to disrupt please not resort to any kind of violence at all. Let the crazies have there crazy moment. Lets not descend to their level of patheticness.

But on the other hand BDP, what do these people expect when they turn up to these healthcare Town Halls expressely to disrupt them? Unless of course the point of turning up is to deliberately provoke violence??

Bart DePalma said...

markymark said...

But on the other hand BDP, what do these people expect when they turn up to these healthcare Town Halls expressely to disrupt them?

Good heavens man!

The SEIU goons assaulted a vendor selling "Don't tread on me" banners outside of a townhall meeting and a 50ish paunchy guy most likely taking time off from his office job to protest a government policy with which he disagrees.

Are you actually attempting to excuse these crimes by saying the victims should have expected to be assaulted by union thugs for protesting Obamacare or simply selling paraphernalia?

You really do not want to go down this road.

This is beyond the pale and has no legitimate excuse whatsoever.

Bartbuster said...

This is beyond the pale and has no legitimate excuse whatsoever.

Baghdad, try thinking of it as "collateral damage". Those 2 words seem to excuse just about anything for you wingnuts.

PeteKent said...

If there is a public option then eventually we will all be on Medicaid. Or all be taxes like the Europeans.

And if medicare is so great why are so many buying supplmental coverage?

Like Teddy and Castro, the elite in the politburo always get what they need as far as the people go, nothing.

petekent01 (on twitter)

markymark said...

BDP, I started off by expressly asking anyone not to act in that way. But I think you will find if you read the whole St Louis Post Dispatch piece, that it was something of the order of 6 of one half a doxen of the other as to who was to blame, so I assume you will also not try and excuse the actions of the teabaggers either?

And remember it was the right that started off suggesting disrupting Town Hall meetings on health care. I don't personally associate with either sides behavior. Personally I would prefer a reasoned debate on the issues, not a pathetic attempt to pervert that, or indeed a violent attempt to stop such perversions.

I personally would not be that surprised if this turns out like that woman (was it a woman?) at a McCain rally last year who was supposedly beatne up by Obama supporters, but actually it turned out to be self inflicted. I cewrtainly suspect that the injured parties were not as innocent as you suggest.

markymark said...

PK said
'If there is a public option then eventually we will all be on Medicaid. Or all be taxes like the Europeans.

And if medicare is so great why are so many buying supplmental coverage?'
-----------------------------

So in one sentence public healthcare will kill off insurance companies, in the next those currently on a public health option are buying additional coverage? Honestly PK do you even think through some of your comments.

Bartbuster said...

'If there is a public option then eventually we will all be on Medicaid. Or all be taxes like the Europeans.

And if medicare is so great why are so many buying supplmental coverage?'


This is pretty funny.

PeteKent said...

I love that the unions are now out there busting people's heads for Obama's benefit. It shows us all how much of a Fascist he really is. America voted for a centrist and they now see they are in the clutches of an authoritarian left wing regime.

Unemployment could go back to the Bush years low of 4.7% and this crowd of Chicagoland gangstas and thugs will still be voted out.

The people who post here are delusional to think that the people of this great coutnry are either fooled by you or agree with you. Nothing could be further from the truth. You are at best 20% of the electorate! And all your shouting and name calling will not change that!

Look how the GOP already has a 5% lead in the generic Congressional ballot. This only six months since the reign of the "worst President in history" ended. You'd think Obama should be doing better for his Party considering his popularity and domination of the entire media, save for Fox News!


petekent01 (on twitter)

markymark said...

Pk said again
'If there is a public option then eventually we will all be on Medicaid. Or all be taxes like the Europeans.

And if medicare is so great why are so many buying supplmental coverage?'
--------------------------

I wanted to come back on this, because this is pretty much how it works in the UK. Everyone pays National Insurance, and is therefore elegible to receive care from the NHS. But many people also receive medical insurance as a benefit from their employers, or buy there own private coverage on top of that. Obviously the NHS is not able to deliver the level of service the privates can, but it does deliver an adequate service, meaning those unwilling or unable to buy private insurance get a decent level of medical cover. Its a system, that despite its imperfections, works pretty well.

markymark said...

Oh and BDP, what was your reaction to the murder of George Tiller?

markymark said...

Because I didn't hear a whole lot of right wing condemnation then. And that was murder not street scuffles.

kankan said...

If you want a good analysis of what the employment stats really mean and how they are messing with them with the birth/death model, counting people that drop off unemployment insurance (and the U6 does not fully do this) go to Mish's blog, he does a good job breaking it down and has been accurate in his predictions.

Nate, I know you may not notice me being an infrequent contributor, but I am repeating myself on this. You are out of your ever loving mind if you think we are about to have a recovery, and neither the Repubs or the Dems should corw or moan about he econ as some sort of indicator of Dems success or failures, and if they do, they do so at their own peril.

The economic tsunami crash hitting us is beyond politicians ability to change. This down tick in employment losses is just the calm just after the ocean sucked out to sea and just before the wall of water hits us.

I agree with many of what Dems are doing, as certainly Repubs would have not much to offer besides allowing crash to happen faster to regualar people with less social safety net while protecting some rich people slightly better than Geitner.

I also believe the counrtry would look like GreatDep already if we did not have social safety net we do, but the stimulus does not stand a chance against this freight train. This global, an techonologically linked financial system with massive fiat currencies and credit derviatives everywhere with no historic precedent from which to predict their behavior. This financial and aconomic crises is an outlier event, that last 300 years of experience does not give us sufficient imagination to grasp what is proble at this point.

Economy will stink for next few years. If Obama is real real lucky and a political genius, he will survive and look good in 2012...those are some big ifs, and I'm rooting for the guy.

Saint Dude said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Saint Dude said...

For an indication of how effective the Bush tax cuts were at creating private sector jobs:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/business/economy/08charts.html?hpw

". . from July 1999, when the economy was booming and companies were complaining about how hard it was to find workers, through July of this year, when the economy was mired in the deepest and longest recession since World War II. For the decade, there was a net gain of 121,000 private sector jobs, according to the survey of employers conducted each month by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In an economy with 109 million such jobs, that indicated an annual growth rate for the 10 years of 0.01 percent.

Until the current downturn, the long-term annual growth rate for private sector jobs had not dipped below 1 percent since the early 1960s."

Considering that 1999 was still a boom year, and there was a net gain of jobs in 2000, a rational person would be inclined to conclude that Republican tax cut policies were a SPECTACULAR failure. Add to that the fact that Bush's tenure ended with a near second great depression, and you can see why trickle down economics should be dead, dead, DEAD.

Mike in Maryland said...

I am still utterly amazed at the TROLL talking points.

On the one hand, they state the private insurance companies ALWAYS do the best job.

On the other hand, they state that the private insurance companies will be forced out of business if people can choose to get insurance through a public option (which, in most versions of the health plan bills in Congress), means a choice of obtaining insurance through a private insurance company.

So if the private insurance companies can do the best job, why would anyone choose a public option?

On the one hand, the TROLLs say that government-run healthcare (or as they call it - socialized medicine) is BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD. Government-run healthcare includes MediCare, MedicAid, DoD hospitals, the VA health system, and Indian health care. Granted, there are some problems in each of those programs, but ask those receiving care from those programs, and the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY would go ballistic if their health care were taken away.

On the other hand, when Congressman Weiner offered an amendment to repeal Medicare when the House Energy and Commerce Committee was considering it's version of the health care bill being considered in that committee, not a singe GOOPer voted for that amendment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTh-Yu9RfF0

GOOPers, TROLLs, wingnuts and assorted ilk, it's put up or shut up time.

Either come up with cogent reasons, WITH VERIFIABLE FACTS, of why you are against the health care debate (not your fake talking points that it's 'socialized' whatever; that it will mean elders will be euthanized; and/or all your other male bovine droppings talking points), or just admit that you are the Party of NO!, and that is your only purpose in life - to be against anything that will benefit anyone else beside your own selfish, idiotic, anti-social, bastard selves.

And while your at it, prove me wrong that my labeling of the opposition party as GOOPers is wrong:

G - Greedy
O - Oppressive
O - Obnoxious
P - Party (or is it Partisan Hacks? Maybe not, as then I'd have to change the acronym to GOOPHers, although that acronym is even funnier than GOOPers.)

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/0284889341225109596

Alan said...

PeteKent trolled: "The people who post here are delusional to think that the people of this great coutnry are either fooled by you or agree with you. Nothing could be further from the truth. You are at best 20% of the electorate! And all your shouting and name calling will not change that!"

You are certainly correct about Republicans being down to 20% of the electorate. Rants such as those you post on this thread are not likely to convert anybody to the Republican party.

And it is very likely that all your shouting and name calling will not derail health care reform.

The "brown shirt" town hall demonstrators organized by groups such as Freedom Works, Conservatives for Patients Rights, Tea Party Patriots Health Care Reform Committee, Americans for Prosperity, Patients First, Patients United Now, and other conservative extremists seem to be backfiring on you guys and helping the reform movement instead.

Rudy said...

Who?

I think you're getting caught in some strange effort to marginalize the protestors.

Mike in Maryland said...

Rude TROLL Rudy said...
Who?

I think you're getting caught in some strange effort to marginalize the protestors
.

1. Who is this message in response to? The only times the word "who" is used is in posts by:
- Obliterati
- Kevin (quoting a portion of an AP article
- Mark (although the word he should have used is 'which' - 'who' refers to a person, 'which' refers to something that is not a person)
- liberal_defender_of_freedom (quoting President Obama)
- Saint Dude
- PeteKent
- PeteKent (in a separate message, and twice in that second message) (although it's difficult saying that anything that PeteKent posts can be called a 'message')
- Richard (three times in one message!)
- Cugel
- LFC (twice in one message)
- markymark
- nova_middle_man (twice in one message)
- Bart DePalma
- beavis
- markymark (again? And twice in one message?? - markymark, you MUST restrain yourself!)
- PeteKent (again!)
- Alan (but ONLY because he was directly quoting PeteKent)

No message to this point was posted by a person with a screen name that contains the word "who" or even "Who".

2. "[S]trange effort to marginalize the protestors [sic]"? I do believe that the protesters are doing of very good job of marginalizing themselves, thank you very much.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/0284889341225109596

Davy said...

"Get your own citations, you lazy bitches."

I'm sorry gang but I have to give PK credit here. That cracked me up. I'm still chuckling.

Davy said...

nova_middle_man said...

Peace out Yall

Dude, you should probably stop drunk posting now.

Eric said...

Did someone say "jobless recovery"? Recently people have been complaining that only 5% of the stimulus package had been spent. Well the building package is getting ready to ramp up. Also in the pipeline is the census, which is expected to produce about a million short term jobs. I predict that this time next year and heading into the midterms, unemployment will be at 5%, and what's left of the Rethugican party will be trying their best by calling the American economy as in a 'dead cat bounce' for the eight month in a row.

Doug said...

Many right-wingers blamed Clinton for 9/11, even though it happened 9 months into Bush's presidency.

Given that timeline, Obama still gets a free pass for a month.

Regarding the post, I've stopped going to Drudge. During the election campaign, there was a tilt towards Obama (against Hillary), until Sarah Palin came along. Since Obama came into office, Drudge has done nothing but slag Obama at every single turn for virtually everything. I know that he only provides links, but those links have been so far skewed to the right that I've stopped going altogether. There was nothing like this in the media that was anti-Bush. Absolutely nothing. Well, maybe MSNBC, but they don't have the viewership to count.

There is legitimate criticism of Obama, yes, but what the right is doing now goes WAY beyond legitimate criticism - it's almost to the point of enticing violence. Somebody out there is going to do something crazy - watch.

Alan said...

Doug said: "Somebody out there is going to do something crazy - watch."

Of course. Those "I want my country back!" tea baggers will never be happy until that damn Kenyan n*gg*r in the White House is dead. Sigh...

Jerry the medical sales recruiter said...

Well, how about the 250,000 health care related-jobs yet to be lost under Obamcare? In my industry, medical device sales, we have already lost 20,000 medical sales representatives in anticipation of reform being passed. Learn more about the impact of Obamacare on the medical sales industry at http://www.gorillamedicalsales.com

Saint Dude said...

Healthcare is one of only a handful of industries ADDING jobs during this recession.

Add to that the fact that healthcare costs have been rising at a faster rate compared to any other segment of the economy for decades, and I am finding it hard to FEEL YOUR PAIN.

Just out of morbid curiosity; how is it that you anticipate a decline in medical device sales when the proposed legislation would add somewhere around 40 million more Americans to the rolls of the insured. If we are to buy all the hype about medical rationing being spewed forth from the right wing, it sounds as if they are afraid that demand in your industry is about to go through the roof.

Yet here you are shaking with trepidation, fretting over a shrinking industry that is about to be handed millions of new patients. You are either a fool or a lier.

Considering you are making your claims as a supposed industry rep, I am leaning towards LIER.

Mike in Maryland said...

Jerry the medical sales recruiter said...
Well, how about the 250,000 health care related-jobs yet to be lost under Obamcare? In my industry, medical device sales, we have already lost 20,000 medical sales representatives in anticipation of reform being passed.

This would appear to be a Freeptard TROLL who is of the opinion that no one can do research for themselves, but must be told what lies to peddle to the masses. And this Freeptard thinks that everyone will believe anything that 'an apparent authority' posts on the 'Inters nets' thingy.

Freeptard? I did a Google search, using 'US health care employment' as the search criteria. Look at just one of the articles that I found:
http://www.reuters.com/article/smallBusinessNews/idUSTRE56T0SH20090730

Freeptar, you are invited to go back to your masters at Freetardville, and stay there.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/0284889341225109596

markymark said...

I like how Right wingers call it Obamacare now! I daresay in a couple of years when people are using it and it's popular, GOPers will remember at that point that Obama didn't have much to do with writing the Bill and shouldn't take credit for it!

And did Jerry just admit that a public health option will be more efficient, and not actually a bloated government bureaucracy, requiring a bloated number of bureaucrats to run it? Or are the GOP trying to have it 28 ways again?

Mr. Arbitrary Letter said...

Some credit to Drudge: his big headline right now is "stocks hit '09 high".

But...

Being Drudge, he can't have an optimistic headline that might be construed as good news for the administration, can he? Consequently, he's moved that headline about one and a half screens down the page. Now when you navigate your browser to the website, the first thing you see is a flurry of anti-healthcare reform links.

kankan said...

There is plenty of happy talk in MSM regardless of who is president, I don't have agrudge with Drduge being partisanly pessissmistic. I do think its pathetic that Repubs think Drudge is just an unbiased aggregator of news.

There are better ways to track how employed US population is than BLS U3, but BLS wouldn't be so bad if it jsut stayed consitent it, ubt it has gradaully tweaked for decades.

Better to look at employment rate if you ask me. From Lunch with Dave posted on Mish's site:

"...To be sure, the drop in the unemployment rate was a surprise, but it was all due to the slide in the labour force — the employment-to-population ratio gives a more accurate picture of the slack in the labour market and the hidden secret in today’s report was that this metric slid to a 25-year low of 59.4% from 59.5% in June and 61.0% at the turn of the year. Of those unemployed, 33.8% of them have been unemployed now for over 27 weeks — a record amount (was at 29.0% in June and was at 17.5% at the start of this recession)."

Todd Dugdale said...

Another one of PeteKent's infallible predictions is about to be shot down.

Back in February, PK predicted:
"Zero will own the economic "catastrophe" by the summer when unemployment most likely reaches double digits."

"Zero", of course, is PK's name for the President. The summer is almost over (as if that was some kind of meaningful benchmark in the first place), and it looks doubtful that we will see double digits in the next report.

PK has learned to hedge his predictions, either by the use of words such as "most likely", or by making them extremely vague and subjective (e.g. "Obama will fail"). Still, he is the same moron who claims that Bush "restored prosperity".

"I am going to be an optiomist until disabused."
PK (2/21)

Davy said...

@Jerry the medical dude:

I briefly considered a second career in aviation and I worked for an FBO (fixed base operator; a company that services general and corporate aviation). One of the clients was a medical supplier whom shall remain nameless. It's possible that the medical supply sales industry will be affected by insurance reform. Frankly, I think they will have to streamline their operations and that's a good thing. But there isn't going to be a dearth of patients. In fact, there will be 50 million more.

You argument that the industry will collapse is unfounded. I watched this particular company engage in plenty of wasteful spending and corporate largess. Trust me, they had really nice jets with well stocked wet bars and took plenty of doctors on golf junkets in Sunriver.

If your industry is forced to clean up its act as a result of competing with a public health plan...let me get a hanky. I'll see if I can manage a few crocodile tears for you.

Mike in Maryland said...

Jerry the medical sales recruiter said...
In my industry, medical device sales, we have already lost 20,000 medical sales representatives

Question to 'Jerry the medical sales recruiter'?

Medical device sales? When did those representatives lose their jobs? During the little shrub administration, because the medical devices they were trying to sell were not devices that little shrub and the 'reborn in Christ' crowd looked upon favorably (such as condoms or other devices intended to inhibit or prevent pregnancies?)?

Just asking - no need to respond, 'Jerry the medical sales recruiter', most likely a Freeptard.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/0284889341225109596

Charles said...

Sorry that I'm a little late to the party on this article, but I have one question about people dropping out of the job market. Shouldn't we expect to see more of the same over the next couple of months as the school year starts in August (and sometimes September) so as people decide that graduate schools are preferable to food stamps more will go into the ranks of "dropping out of the job market"?

Mike in Maryland said...

Charles said...
as the school year starts in August (and sometimes September) so as people decide that graduate schools are preferable to food stamps more will go into the ranks of "dropping out of the job market"?

Charles,

The 'jobless' rates are adjusted to take in seasonal variations. You would usually expect a large jump in jobless rates in June and July as high schools and colleges are out for the summer, then a drop in September. Then a downtick in the jobless rate in November and December as stores hire extra workers for the holiday season. BLS 'adjusts' for those known changes.

As to graduate school, most would have had to decide this spring or earlier to go to grad school and apply, get accepted, pay (at least some) of their fees, or get left out, as the grad schools don't accept many, if any, applicants after the previous school year ends at the latest.

Anecdotal, but Robert Kling, coordinator of graduate studies in the Economics department, Colorado State University noted that during and immediately after the recessions of 1990 to '91, and again during the 2001 recession, grad school enrollments jumped at CSU (http://media.www.collegian.com/media/storage/paper864/news/2009/03/23/News/Recession.Environment.Mirrors.Growing.Graduate.School.Trend-3678955.shtml). You'll notice though, that the increased enrollment lagged a school year from the recession, probably because of the need to line up funding, applications, the uncertainty of whether to go to grad school or not, etc.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/0284889341225109596

Barbara724 said...

We all know PhDs found jobs at McDonalds & these numbers reflect that sad total. Healthcare reform will encouraging hiring elsewhere. At UCLA/USC hundreds want to retire but not w/out healthcare, Lower rates will poss. encourage return of manufacturing. Zakaria reported moves to Canada by huge corps in '07 b/c insurance costs were 600/person vs. 6000/year in the US. Innovative small businesses that aren't required to cover <50 (?) will start up. Cap and Trade plan must also go through. Yes it's a tax on polluters. So? Motivate them to change or die. It is also $250 B for green jobs & job training. Thoroughly vetted before the election -note McMissing didn't mention it. If energy-cons pass on the cost as they say, the demand for new ways to spark power will create jobs & net rebates. American ingenuity, where have you gone? Please return from Holland Denmark where you are paid.

Sometimes it's debt or death. If your country has cancer, you pay for the treatment. There is no alternative but to get healthy & work it off.

freefun0616 said...

酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店經紀,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店工作,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,

,