Quantcast FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Do You Favor Same-Sex Marriage? Do You Know Any Gay People?

8.21.2009

Do You Favor Same-Sex Marriage? Do You Know Any Gay People?

Jeff and Justin found, based on survey data from 1994-2008, that gay marriage is most popular among the under-30s and least popular among the over 65's, and it's a big gap: the difference in support for gay rights is about 35 percentage points more among the young than the old.

To explore these age patterns some more, Daniel Lee and I did some simple analyses of attitudes on gays from three questions on the 2004 Annenberg survey, which had a large enough sample size that we could pretty much plot the raw numbers by age.

First, do you favor a state law allowing same sex marriage? As expected from Jeff and Justin's analysis, the younger you are, the more likely you are to support same-sex marriage:

2004_ageVsFavorStateMarriage.png

How do we understand this? Perhaps younger Americans are more likely to know someone gay, thus making them more tolerant of alternative lifestyles.

It's not so simple.

Let's look at the response to the question, Do you know any gay people. As of 2004, a bit over half the people under 55 reported knowing someone gay; from there on, it drops off a cliff. Only about 15% of 80-year-olds know any gay people. (The data are a little noisy at the very end, where sample sizes become smaller.)

2004_ageVsKnowSomeoneGay.png

This isn't what I was expecting. I thought that people under 30 would be much more likely to say they know a gay person. But the probability actually goes up slightly from ages 18 to 45. I guess this makes sense: during those years, you meet more people, some of whom might be gay.

I showed this graph to a student in our department, and she was surprised that the percentages were so low: less than 60% of any age group reports knowing a gay person. A quick calculation: suppose you know 100 people well enough to know their sexual orientation, and suppose 3% of people are openly gay; then on average, people will know 3 gay people. (I think we actually asked a "How many gay people do you know?" question on one of our surveys, so we could look this up.) Given that there's overdispersion--some people have more friends than others, and gay people are not randomly distributed in the population--it doesn't seem unreasonable for about half the respondents to not know any gays.

Finally, who supports a Federal Marriage Ammendment (this one is an anti-gay position)? As of 2004, most people opposed such a constitutional amendment:

2004_ageVsFavorFederalMarriage.png

Opposition was slightly stronger among the young, but not nearly as much as you might expect given the attitudes on state gay marriage laws (as shown in the top graph above). Of the 20-year-olds, 50% supported a state law making gay marriage legal, 35% supported a federal law making gay marriage illegal, with only 15% supporting the status quo. Among 80-year-olds, however, 15% supported a state gay marriage law, 40% favor the federal anti-gay-marriage amendment, and a whopping 45% are happy with the existing laws. (I'm assuming that nobody out there is supporting the anti-gay marriage amendment and also state gay marriage laws, but I guess we can check this.)

Finally, from the Annenberg 2000 survey, here's the percentage of people, by age, who supported employment nondiscrimination laws. This one shows the expected pattern of the under-30s being different from everybody else:

2000_ageVsGayStopJobDiscrimination.png

Exact question wording is here (scroll down to the end). Daniel mostly coded nonresponses as No's, which isn't quite how I'd do it (I'd usually exclude nonrespondents from the averages), but I doubt this makes much of a difference. We can check.

43 comments

Walker said...

Zzzzzz....

Of all the things to research and write about with all that's going on right now, we see a submission on gay marriage sympathies across different age groups.

Yawn Fest 2009.

Are there editorial meetings b/w Nate and his hired guns? It's obvious that Nate gives them unlimited leeway.

Underling: Hey, I was thinking about writing an article about how older Cuban-Americans are more anti-Castro than younger ones??

Nate: Run with it.

Oh, and regarding gay marriage I support the president on this issue.

He stakes out a solid conservative position.

I loves it when Obama rips it off the bone Dr. Charles Dobson style.

Mad Joy said...

Walker, this is the kind of analysis Fivethirtyeight thrives on - using statistics to understand some of the underlying issues about people's viewpoints and how they'll vote in the future. You don't think it's interesting that the number of people who support an amendment that marriage is between a man and a woman, is fairly even across generations? That's both surprising and interesting to me. It suggests that there may be a core base that is opposed to gay marriage no matter what, even as the number of young people accepting gay marriage is rising.

I'm still a little frightened by how many people *don't* want to end job discrimination against gay people. That seems like a no-brainer to me. I'd love to hear a rational argument supporting that position - I have trouble even imagining one.

flaneur said...

I would think a lot may depend on where you live, as I would guess the distribution of gay people varies somewhat geographically.

Mithras said...

I guess this makes sense: during those years, you meet more people, some of whom might be gay.

Maybe. Or maybe many gay people don't come out until they're out of high school and college. 100% of the people surveyed know a gay person, but not all of them know it.

jayme0227 said...

I would have asked how many gay people that they knew. Yeah, a 40 year old may know one or two gay people, but a 20 year old might know 3-4 or more. Also, how do you define "knowing" a gay person? Is your neighbor's uncle that you only see once a year considered "knowing" a gay person, or do you have to see them considerably more often. That's another point where I would see the young and old differentiate.

phatcat43 said...

I agree with mithras. No evidence, but I would guess that coming out probably hits its peak of its distribution in the late 20s to mid 30s.

krilia said...

I'm still a little frightened by how many people *don't* want to end job discrimination against gay people. That seems like a no-brainer to me. I'd love to hear a rational argument supporting that position - I have trouble even imagining one.

Sadly, I wonder if part of that has to do with the "I don't want a gay person teaching my children" mentality.

cnoocy said...

I'd be interested to see a three-dimensional analysis of the first two questions and age. How strongly is support for same-sex marriage correlated with knowing a gay person, and is the strength of that correlation dependent on age?

Ken said...

would the rise in support from the 20-30 year olds have something to do with how they were raised? The 40-50 something generation was raised by parents who professed not to know gay people; thus have been raised to not associate/support that position.. i.e; "my parents don't know anyone like that so I shouldn't either."

For the 20-30 year old generation, they grew up in a household where it may have been common for their parents to discuss openly their gay friends, gay rights issues, etc; therefore their worldview has been shaped by that acceptance of gay individuals.

Linda said...

I would think that apart from personally knowing someone who is gay, younger people are also much more likely to have been aware of gay people in other ways, and from an early age. Think tv, movies... That should make younger people less likely to think that gay people are strange and unusual and thus young people would be less inclined to be prejudiced against gays.

Randall said...

Interesting analysis. But in the world of LGBT politics the information you have is VERY dated. With the advent of legal gay marriages, "Will and Grace," "Ellen" and any number of other societal issues, there is an accelerating trend in favor of gay marriage and, I would postulate, and increasing age gap. You may have defined a baseline for the beginning of the marriage revolution, but I'll bet your numbers are now 10 points off by now.

Mark said...

I agree with Randall. I would like to see this analysis stratified by year. I would also like to see the author of the post actually do analyses that would answer the questions posed in the post.

Vicki Rosenzweig said...

Yes, Mithras, everyone (except perhaps the most extreme hermits) knows some gay people. But the ones who don't know they do--who don't have any out gay friends or regular acquaintances--aren't going to be influenced by "my cousin Pat is a lesbian, and I've known her all my life and she's an ordinary person, she shouldn't be discriminated against."

Isebrand said...

Ditto Mithras' comment.

Persuter said...

Yes, Mithras, everyone (except perhaps the most extreme hermits) knows some gay people.

I dunno about that. I think there's a lot of regional variability - I would expect most people from the cities to know some gay people and most people from rural areas to not know any.

And on a note more relating to the article, the fact that a person is "openly gay" doesn't mean that everyone that knows them knows they're gay.

John said...

I agree with Persuter about regional variability. I grew up in a small town in Texas (about 3,500 people) and I'd bet that 3,000 of the "don't know" a gay person. The gay people that live there (and the distribution is the same as in the general population) are not "out" and live lies. To the folks in this small community, gay people are as rare and unusual as Australian aborigines and they have likely never seen a gay couple.

OTOH, I live in the "gay" part of Dallas and am surrounded by gay men, women, couples, families, etc. In my very own complex, there are more gay people than straight and there are five couples (out of 30 units) who have been together for more than 20 years.

So your location plays a great part in acceptance, etc., of the "gay lifestyle" (I hate that phrase - as if it's something you chose *sigh*).

juvanya said...

Perhaps there is a difference between "knowing" homosexuals and being "friends" or "acquaintances". I know of at least two homosexuals I can name right now. I am not friends with either. In fact, I think they have unfriendly and arrogant personalities.

I am friends with some people (all female) who claim to be bisexual. I think they are just saying that because they want to have an open mind and think they can ignore Nature.

juvanya said...

@John: Location may not play a part in acceptance. Perhaps people who are more accepting of homosexuals will be more likely to live in an area with a lot of homosexuals because they are not concerned.

Meanwhile, people who are not so accepting may refuse to live near homosexuals.

Cas said...

I guess the closet is bigger than I thought. It is inconceivable to me that 40% of the population thinks they don't know anyone who is gay. 80% of people live in areas the Census classifies as "urban." That includes most suburbs. It is impossible not to come across percentages of gay people far above 3% in those areas, with a cultural emphasis on being out. So that means that outside of those areas, the closet is deep and dark and/or observers are oblivious even in the presence of out gay people.

Christopher said...

LOL @ "ignore nature"

As if homosexuality doesn't exist EVERYWHERE in nature.

Mad Joy said...

Also, I would be interested if you did check about changing nonresponses to missing, if the results stayed the same; it seems like a possible serious source of bias. If you do this check, hopefully you'll update your personal blog with it.

shiloh said...

Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes and another pertinent question would be: Do you support Gays serving openly in the military?

Which leads to my fav question: How is it possible for there to be Gay Reps? A party which thinks, in general and by doctrine that Gay folk are sexual deviants ie the scum of the earth. My personal all-time die-hard fav Gay Rep at another political blog is one of the many who stopped posting after the Reps got wiped out again in the '08 election.

Voting against one's own self-interest is a difficult concept to grasp, although he would tell you it's all about economics and finance as he is an I, Me, Mine and screw everyone else political animal. Yes Virginia, there are selfish, small world view Gay Reps also.

Ain't diversity wonderful! ;)

How much self-loathing factors into the equation if one is a Gay Rep.

There's minorities and then there's Gay Reps ...

Maybair said...

The data is far too dated for my taste. The one from 2000 is down right historical. But I guess the point is to look at age differences, and any data will do.

slasher14 said...

When I was in college in the 60s, my best friend was gay and I didn't know it. When we first met, she hadn't yet worked it out. By the time we dropped out together, she had. Even then, it took me the better part of a year before I realized what had happened. The idea of gay people wasn't so much "wrong" to me as it was kind of unimagineable. When my best friend turned out to be gay, however, there was nothing for me to do but accept it for her, and for all gay people. Because...well...if SANDY was gay, then it must be OK.

I cannot believe this would happen to a young man today. She would have come out -- to me at least -- much earlier, and I would have had more of a frame of reference for acceptance (which is one reason she would have come out earlier.)

Thank you, Will and Grace.

apchilds94 said...

I'm a big fan of this site. But this post isn't up to the standards we've come to expect from 538.

Using five-year-old data to try to say much of anything about attitudes toward sexuality is fairly pointless (except perhaps in comparison to more recent data, to look for historical trendlines). But I'm especially disappointed by the use of the patently offensive phrase "alternative lifestyles" (which all major style guides agree should be avoided).

Come on, guys, you can do better than this...

hostwise said...

I have known a lot of gays since I was in high school. I am really open-minded to those kind of personality, but there are a lot of times that I prefer not to agree with same sex marriage. I believe that this kind of activity is not proper for I believe that men are still preferred for women.



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Nathan said...

By the way, it's "amendment," not "ammendment." Please, run a spell checker before posting. This is supposed to be a serious, professional website.

coachjdc said...

another possibility for the relatively level numbers of those who know someone gay. Those in the 40-50 range who have kids are more likely to have, if one of their kids is gay, a child who is out, or to know friends of their kids who are out.

Ryan said...

Are you guys serious???

EVERYONE knows someone gay, period.

Also, Nate, you only know 100 people well enough to know their sexual orientation? I really can't estimate, but I think I know over a thousand people well enough to know their sexual orientation.

Anyone who says they don't know a gay person is embarrassed about their nephew Jimmy or doesn't ask their flaming realtor about his girlfriend cause they're scared of the answer, etc.

It's polls like these that go a long way toward poll-driven social science research because it's so patently ridiculous.

Sorry to be shrill.

Ryan said...

I meant "discrediting" poll-driven social science research above.

Cosa Nostradamus said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Cosa Nostradamus said...

.
I know lots of gay people. Always did. My godfather was gay. Don't know if the priest knew...

I wouldn't wish marriage on anybody. But if that's what they want, mazel tov, a gezunt on them, they should live long & prosper, why not? It's a free country, right?

What part of FREE don't the 'Pukes get?

And if you do get married, honeymoon here in Hawaii, please. We need the money. Besides, it's our birthday. Have some haupia malasadas!
.

shiloh said...

Cosa Nostradamus said...

And if you do get married, honeymoon here in Hawaii, please. We need the money. Besides, it's our birthday. Have some haupia malasadas!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Happy 50th birthday Hawaii, you don't look a day over 49! :) According to my watch you still have (7) hours to celebrate!

Cheers!

Shawn Conners said...

Hey Andy... Everyone knows someone gay... next time you want to use that analogy, you might want to say "openly gay." Even grandma knew or knows someone gay, whether she knew/knows it or not.

Quixote said...

@Ryan et al.:

The question was, "Do you have a friend, colleague, or family member who is gay or lesbian?" - not "have you ever encountered a gay person?"

(Personally, even if the question were "do you know someone gay," it would never have occurred to me to think of my realtor. Also, I might not presume to know someone's sexual orientation simply because their mannerisms fit a "flaming" gay stereotype.)

Kenny said...

In both of the first two graphs there appears to be some kind of drop-off at around age 55. That is, in the supporting a gay marriage law graph, the only band of non-decrease is from about 35 to 55, and in the "know someone gay" graph the maximum seems to stretch from about 35 to 55. For surveys conducted in 2004 that suggests people who were born between 1950 and 1970. People born after 1950 are the people who came of age at or after Stonewall, which is probably around the first time that it would no longer be unheard of for straight people to know openly gay people.

35 and 55 may also be tipping points in the third graph about the federal gay marriage amendment. People who were between 35 and 45 would have come of age during the '80s, in the height of the AIDS epidemic and the Reagan years, which (from what I understand) were the recent low points in gay rights.

Marian said...

I'm 63 and have many friends that are openly gay and a friend whose child is gay. They are some of the most fun people I know.

My brother-in-law, age 76, won't even watch "Philadelphia Story". I guess if you hide your head in the sand gays don't even exist.

Nosimplehiway said...

Problem with the "knowing someone gay" question is that we may have the causality backwards. Maybe knowing gay people doesn't so much make you liberal, as that being conservative makes gay people less likely to tell you they're gay.

I'm gay, and if I know, going into a social situation, that the person I'm meeting is very conservative or if they just seem conservative at first glance, I rarely tell them I'm gay. Why sabotage a casual acquaintanceship if I don't have to? I'm not saying I lie, but there are ways to steer the conversation away from it, if it even comes up. I mean if you're straight, when's the last time you specifically and intentionally told someone you were straight? OTOH, if the person I meet seems open and liberal, I may mention my gay-ness much more readily.

@Mad Joy

Good point! I suppose someone could make a libertarian don't-tell-me-what-to-do argument against ENDA, but where exactly are the libertarians among the GOP leadership?

If we define (as most people do) libertarians as being socially liberal, and economically conservative, there are none in the Senate. Among Senators scoring 75% or higher, rated by degree of economic conservatism according to the National Journal, not one of them ranked above the 25% mark for social liberalism.

The GOP, in their echo chamber, like to pretend they have lots of libertarians in their ranks. "Small government!", they yell. "Get your hands off my freedoms!", they cajole. But really, overall they are simply quite conservative. My problem is not with that, but with the misrepresentation.

And before someone raises people like Olympia Snowe, her scores are Social Liberal: 47%, and Economic Conservative: 45%. That's not a libertarian, that's a middle of the Senate moderate. There's a difference.

Listed here are all Senators ranked 75% or higher for economic conservatism. In parentheses is their score for social liberalism: Barrasso 0%, Ensign 0%, Enzi 0%, Kyl 0%, DeMint 0%, Coburn 0%, Burr 0%, Allard 0%, Sessions 27%, Inhofe 0%, Bunning 0%, Vitter 0%, Gregg 21%, Graham 0%, McConnell 0%, Thune 0%, Cornyn 0%, and Brownbeck 21%

sherifffruitfly said...

1) Anyone answering "no" to Do You Know Any Gay People are idiots.

2) Old folks are much more likely to bigots that young folks. In other breaking news: water is wet.

Dave said...

Great post, nosimplehiway.

I was wondering if you could post similar data for Dem senators to see the economic conservatism of those who scored 75% or higher for social liberalism.

And I was wondering which senators from either party have what I describe as "Libertarian tendencies", or a score of at least 60% in that direction from both categories.

You are familiar with the "World's Smallest Political Quiz" which attempts to measure one's location on the political spectrum? There are 10 questions, 5 on social issues and 5 on fiscal issues, and the totals are places on a grid to see where you are. BTW, I score about 60%-60% which is why I chose that cutoff above.

The link to this quiz is:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

gbthrone said...

The question of "Do you know any gay persons?" is far too vague as a stand alone query. It begs for follow up to determine how well you know the people. I would imagine that a lot of the older age group responses are conditioned by the 1970's-1980's media image of gays as irresponsible, sex crazed fools who had orgies in urban bathhouses. I'm sure I'm acquainted with more gay persons than those who I know to be gay. IMHO, the real headache with virtually all of the "gay marriage" politics is the use of a word, marriage, that is loaded with religious meaning and overtones to a large segment of people. The fact that the courts and the law have regarded marriage as merely another form of contract law, albeit with certain unique aspects, merely increases the stridency of the debate, with one side seeing gay marraige as a simple extension of civl rights and contract law, and the other side seeing gay marriage as an assault on a holy covenant.

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