7.12.2009

Why Democrats Have No Time to Waste

The Wall Street Journal's has had its monthly economic forecasting panel attempt to predict what the unemployment rate will look like through the end of 2010. And the results are something that should make the Administration -- and Democrats in Congress -- a little nervous. The average forecast for the unemployment rate next December -- a year-and-a-half from now -- is 9.5 percent. That's no better than where unemployment is today. And only one economist out of 51 ventured a forecast below 7.6, which is what the unemployment rate was when Obama took office in January.

It's not that the Journal's forecasters are all that bearish overall. In fact the panel, which has a notoriously bullish track record, expects to see GDP turn positive quite soon: 70 percent expect the recession to end by the fall, and 90 percent by the end of the year.

The unemployment rate, however, has long been a lagging indicator, especially following recent recessions. Suppose that the recession ends in August. Perhaps six months from then -- in February or March -- the economy will actually have started to create jobs. But the employment picture will have gotten worse in the meantime; it will be creating jobs from a peak of, say, 9.9 percent if the administration is lucky, or say, 11.2 percent if it isn't. It will take some time to get the number back down to the 9.5 percent that it's at presently, much less to fall below the 7.6 percent number that would represent an overall gain of jobs during Obama's tenure.

The question is: how playable a hand would the Administration have at that point? They'll probably get some boost when (if?) the recession is declared over. But maybe not much of one. The Persian Gulf Recession officially ended in March 1991; George H.W. Bush was still suffering from the consequences of it 18 months later.

A more favorable precedent, perhaps, is that set by Ronald Reagan. His approval rating hit its trough in February, 1983, a mere three months after the 1981-1982 recession ended. Reagan, more than G.H.W. Bush, could claim to have inherited his recession from the previous administration. Although that recession started in July 1981, half a year into Reagan's term, it was in some ways a continuation of the January-July 1980 recession that began under Jimmy Carter. In this way, his situation is more analogous to Obama's, whom nobody can blame Obama for the start of the current recession -- although increasing numbers will become frustrated with him that it hasn't ended yet.

Reagan's Republicans nevertheless lost 26 seats in the House during the 1982 midterms. That is probably a reasonable over-under for the losses that Obama's Democrats might suffer. While on the one hand, Obama's timing may turn out to be somewhat better than Reagan's, on the other hand Republicans were losing ground from a much lower peak -- the only controlled 192 seats in the House before the midterms, whereas Obama's Democrats now have 257. I'd still take the under given that betting line, mostly because the GOP is poorly organized, both in terms of message and infrastructure. But anything from the Democrats gaining a few seats to losing their hold on the chamber is entirely possible.

The Democrats are in a much more fortunate position, at least, in the Senate, where even after a couple of recruiting coups, the GOP is playing more defense than offense. The over-under there may still even be in positive territory for the Democrats -- say a net gain of +/- half a seat. The Democrats are further fortunate that the Senate, not the House, is the legislative bottleneck right now. If hypothetically the Democrats lost 25 seats in the House, which would make their margin 232-203, but added one seat to improve to 61 in the Senate, it's not clear how much worse off they'd be, particularly if the losses in the House were mostly to conservative, Blue Dog seats.

Still, there is not much time for the Administration to lose in pushing forward the Democratic agenda. The recent sluggishness in the recovery reduces, if not altogether eliminates, the possibility that the Democrats will have some kind of golden window of opportunity prior to the next midterms. Suppose that the recession ends tomorrow, and that the jobs recovery begins sometime around the Holidays. That's pretty much the best reasonable case for the Democrats. But would you really want to be pushing, say, a climate bill in the summer of 2010, with unemployment still in the high 8's or low 9's and an election right around the corner? At that point, the better strategy might be to redouble the efforts to keep as many seats as possible in the House and gain a couple in the Senate.

These next couple of months -- the time just before and after the Senate recesses in August -- are precious for the Democrats. Sure, they'd probably have an easier go of things if the recession hadn't gotten quite so deep. But it's nevertheless likely to be their best time to play offense until the spring of 2011, and possibly much longer than that.

50 comments

Pragmatus said...

I agree. The Democrats have until the elections of 2010 to do their most aggressive work. Afterward they will still control both houses of Congress, but winning both over for particular legislation will be much harder. Incumbents will begin looking fearfully toward 2012, judging how much a plus or minus Obama will be on the ticket.

BTW, how 'bout those Cheney revelations that came out today? Any chance of seeing him on the rack in the near future?

darkerstar1 said...

What really matters is actually doing the job, and frankly that means owning his forst mistake of calling for a small stimulus. If that mistake is owned Republicans won't be able to attackit, and he should use the chance to throw another 700 billion at the states and welfare projects. Getting the states on a fiscal footing would give him a little more leverage too, and after that just push hard for health care and cap and trade. I can tell you right now if he gets that trough along with some ed. reform democrats will not have any problems even spector will get reelected. Then he'll need to do serious social secirity and budget work that kidcks in when we hit full employment. I mean this aint rocket surgery.

mark said...

I guess no senate rankings....this is really disapointing...

Alon Levy said...

Darkerstar1, the Republicans will have an easy time attacking Obama if he asks for a second stimulus on the grounds that he was too cautious with the first. They'll put TV ads like, "When government spending doesn't work, the Democrats' solution is to have more government spending." The Democrats can deflect this attack if most economists support a second stimulus, but so far 43 economists out of 51 surveyed by the WSJ oppose it.

The Republicans' most scathing attacks, predicting inflation and a mounting debt, can backfire because they apply to Bush and Greenspan's actions in 2003. A lot of economists, particularly conservative economists, believe that the economic stimulus of 2003, especially Greenspan's interest rate cut, is what fueled the housing bubble. If the Republicans overplay an attack, the Democrats should be able to round up a couple of economists saying that the Republicans are for loose economic policy when in power and for a tight one when out of power.

newyorker2874999 said...

A second stimulus would be the easiest thing in the world to get through both houses - all the President would have to do would be to cut state governors out of the action.

You let each senator spread four billion around his or her state and each representative one billion around the old district. Such a stimulus would pass both houses by acclamation.

Would it stimulate? Absolutely. Would it put America's economy on the road to sutainable prosperity? Of course not. The only thing that would ever do that is too taboo to even be mentioned: We would have to overcome our SmootHawley-phobia.

Before economic globalism, America made cars that were good enough to satisfy most Americans. What exactly has economic globalism done for most Americans lately?

John said...

The notion that unemployment is a lagging indicator has been everywhere these days and I think that will somewhat soften the blow for the dems come midterms so long as growth has resumed. I think they'd have more to be worried about if not for the fact that public opinion of the GOP has just gotten lower the more they hound on unemployment. Obama might have to "own" the recession at some point, but that won't let the GOP off the hook. They'll both be owning the recession, but Obama will be owning whatever good signs there are.

Pragmatus said...

darkerstar1…

Interesting that you should blame the smallness of the stimulus on the president. He is not a king, who can govern by fiat. The stimulus was slashed from a much larger figure largely because of complaints by GOP members of Congress.

If you’re going to throw around blame for things that have happened contrary to your beliefs, at least have the decency to first read up and find out what actually happened.

Shawn said...

Health care needs to be done this year.

But a good time to finish the climate bill is in the lame duck session of 2010. That's also a good time to push EFCA in the Senate. The House can pass it pretty easily.

Better yet, add all these goodies to a reconciliation bill, and pass it in December 2010, and the conservatives can eat shit.

Pragmatus said...

Nate Silver…

How about some nice juicy polling and analysis on what the public thinks should be done with Dick Cheney? I for one would like to see a special punishment arranged for him, involving barbecue sauce made with honey, lots of rope and a gag, and fire ants.

Shawn said...

Pragmatus- I like your idea regarding Dick Cheney, although I think George W Bush and Sarah Palin (as bad as Ahmadinejad) should also get similar punishment.

Pragmatus said...

Shawn…

I think we could fine three fire-anthills suitably close together somewhere…

Mike in Maryland said...

Pragmatus and Shawn,

The Russians, in the 17th and 18th century, had a punishment that involved digging a hole in the middle of, or just adjacent to, an ant hill, inserting the condemned into the hole with just their head above ground level (all limbs very securely bound), and then leaving the person. The location was usually a few feet off a major roadway so that others could see the punishment.

If the condemned didn't die from the ants, they died of thirst. Or if someone surreptitiously managed to get water to the condemned, they eventually died of hunger or exposure.

Particularly cruel, and something that Catherine the Great saw first hand as she was being transported for her (arranged) marriage with Peter of Holstein-Gottorp.

Since Russia is too cold in the winter for fire ants, it was just the common ant of the locale that did 'all the work'.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

KIC said...

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me howinell they could have gotten a bigger stimulus with the repugs holding them up at *every* step of the way and how they should magically make this recession less than it is, as though they can pull job creation out like a talking point? I don't see why people "expect" recovery in X time, as though it is a game. I wish people had common sense.

Rudy said...

Cheney didn't do anything wrong, even according to the anonymous source for that article.

How are you going to keep any secrets if they have to tell those blabbermouths in congress everything that's even in the talking stages?

The statute establishing the CIA says congress doesn't have to be informed, "to the extent consistent with due regard for the protection from unauthorized disclosure of classified information relating to sensitive intelligence sources".

Case closed. Better get back to frogmarching Richard Armitage over the Plame affair.

Pragmatus said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Pragmatus said...

Rudy…

The statue establishing the CIA was superceded by stringent laws passed in the late 1970s after the abusive political uses the CIA was put to by Richard Nixon. So you’re wrong—the Congress does have to be informed.

Say, I wonder if Nixon was a Republican…

The case is not closed, new revelations almost daily are forcing more and more things out into the open.

Pragmatus said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Cosa Nostradamus said...

.
It's not Obama who's up for reelection in 2010. And those who are had better not be talking "lagging indicators" to families about to become homeless.

Then there's the crime rate, which always goes up in hard times: Good news for right-wingers. Our fastest growing group of hyphenates is Incarcerated-Americans. Unfortunately, there are very few bankers & brokers among them.

There will never be any "change" until we get corporate money out of our polity.
.

jdk said...

@KIC

"bigger" is the wrong question. Obviously, a payroll tax cut would have had a more immediate impact. Right now the payroll tax brings in more money than, is currently obligated for SS and Medicare payouts (and since there is not Al Gore Mythical Lock Box, it has never been clear to me why we use this regressive tax (with significant deadweight loss) more than it absolutely necessary).

And the government could have just said we're going handle the entire primary home mortgage market, giving everybody a 3% 30year up to 80% of honest valuation not to exceed 3 times household income, letting the market handle financing needs beyond that amount. This would have immediately quite a bit of cash for the vast majority of homeowners and the government would have had a steady stream of income.

This likely would have done far more to turn the economic ship in the short run (and the short run by pulling the home mortage out of the recession cycle)

The problem for Dems is that a payroll tax seems like a tax cut (it is) which apparently is verboten because it sounds to "republicanny" and taking control of the reasonable "necessity" housing market seems too socialistic (which it might bew sort of, but so what, so is the social doctrine which includes the "universal destination of goods".)

In other words, the Dems triangulated themselves! Maybe the Dems need to ask this question: "What would my Democratic parents and/or grandparents have wanted or done!"

written in haste without proofreading, as usual

juvanya said...

The stimulus did not work because it is fauxcialism. As much as conservatards insist on call Democrats socialists or commies, they are not even remotely either. A truly (or even reasonably) socialist stimulus would pour $500 billion into shovel-ready projects like building a high speed rail network and building rightofway for Amtrak everywhere. Amtrak only owns the Northeast Corridor. This would be a great stimulus, increase jobs, lower pollution ultimately, and keep the money here in America.

Where's the CCC? The Democrats of today are pussies and I hope they dont get conked ever the head in 2010, but they just might be.

juvanya said...

Also, buying up and cancelling debt or giving homeowners money to pay off their debts would be a better use of stimulus money. Only a small portion of the $787B has been spent and it will take 5 years to finish. What silliness.

slasher14 said...

The Democrats need to place their emphasis, in 2010, upon the fact that when the economy cratered on Bush's watch, they did as much as they could to preserve jobs and to help those who had lost them, while the Republicans called for no action other than to let the chips fall where they may. The problem with the first stimulus package is that it involved a lot of things which could be painted as policy measures.

This problem is solved if the
"second stimulus" is posed instead as two separate bills. One should be a tax cut to everyone below a certain income level (say $250,000) in more or less the same form as the first stimulus. The other should be a bill specifically earmarked to state and local governments for the explicit purposes of unemployment benefits and job preservation -- nothing else.

Is that not just a stimulus bill by any other name? Yes, but it accomplishes three things:

1) It makes the stimulus package much more transparent, and takes away from the Republicans the argument that it's pork, since it doesn't involve specific projects.

2) There's nothing to cut, other than the dollar amount. And it becomes clear that the dollars being cut are going to come out of the pockets of working people, not some unseen political hacks.

3) A lot of Republican state governors are going to support this because the alternative is raising taxes to meet their budget deficits, and this in turn puts a lot of pressure on Republican Congresspersons.

The winning argument for the Dems in 2010 is that we were there for those who were innocent victims of a crash which happened on the Republicans' watch. While they called (and presumably will still be calling) for no help for those victims, we have done what we could. There is still far too much unemployment, but at least we alleviated the pain. If you believe that everything would have worked out OK if nothing had been done, vote Republican. If you believe that government has a responsibility to assist its citizens during economic crises, vote for us. It's that simple.

Pragmatus said...

Good ideas advanced here today.

As far as a new stimulus, regardless of how appropriate or above reproach (i.e. adhering to the outline slasher14 described) the Republicans will foam at the mouth against it. Why? Because they really are the Party of NO. They would like nothing better than for the president to fail. Then they could surge back to power and clean up whatever crumbs were still left in the Treasury and dole these out among themselves.

In all the recent history of GOP complaints against the president and his policies, they never put forward a workable alternative. I mean, how can someone scream about the size of the deficit and the need for tax cuts in the same sentence? Unbelievable.

The most amazing thing is that anyone still listens to them.

Rudy said...

Pragmatus, we both know those later laws violate constitutional separation of powers, which was the main issue in Iran Contra. There will be no enforcement lest they be found unconstitutional. That's exactly why this became a smear campaign against Cheney rather than a real legal issue. It's all meat beating. Nice try.

norvie said...

Hi, Nate,

I think you may have left a couple of things out of your earlier analysis (2/10/09) of unemployment numbers, that may be germane to this discussion.

First, unless my eyes deceive, all of the curves you show are very symmetrical. This makes intuitive sense; slow fall/slow rise, steep fall(like now)/steep rise(?).

Second, the "Greenspan era" is also, by and large, the "Republican era", both in the WH and, to a significant extent, the congress. This suggests that we should take into account the Republican's disinterest in using government power to improve job numbers. Indeed, isn't this one of the reasons that many people (like me) prefer Democrats to Republicans?

Anyway, keep up your good work!

Mark said...

@Cosa Nostradamus

You said "Then there's the crime rate, which always goes up in hard times"

Sources? This appears intuitive, which makes me doubt it all the more.

Pragmatus said...

Over the past several months, the sales tax here in Los Angeles County has gone from 8.25% to 9.75%. (There is no sales tax on food in CA.) Funny, but even a tax increase that hefty (a whopping 18%, folks) has elicited not the slightest complaint from anyone I know, or anywhere else as far as I can tell.

Could it actually be true that sensible people are willing to shoulder reasonable tax increases when it is necessary?

Apparently so, but don’t tell a Republican. You’ll just get an apoplectic argument.

Pragmatus said...

Rudy…

So what you seem to be saying is that you disagree with the restrictions on the CIA put into law following Nixon’s egregious misuse of that agency. I’m further guessing that you think it was OK for Nixon to do what he did with the CIA.

If so, I don’t think we could have a reasonable discussion about anything.

Rudy said...

Pragmatus: No that's not what I'm saying -- you're putting words in my mouth. What I'm saying is that Congress cannot pass laws giving it jurisdiction over the executive branch. Oversight, yes. Jurisdiction, no. You will find no reputable constitutional scholar who thinks otherwise. The CIA creation laws are still the operable standard, not the later laws that violate separation of powers. If you suggest otherwise, show some case law.

Further, in this recent example, nothing ever happened. It was just talk that never amounted to anything. Maybe, as you say, there is more to come. We've heard that kind of wishful thinking before from the wild-eyed crowd.

And as far as the sales tax in CA: frogs, boiling water.

gbthrone said...

Juvanya-
Here's exactly what happened to "shovel-ready" projects and why stimulus money can't be used to buy and build Amtrak right of way:
The EIRs would still be incomplete or in litigation when Obama is termed out as President in 2017.

Pragmatus said...

Rudy…

I almost hate to point a few things out. Are you a foreigner? Otherwise I can’t account for your ignorance of the U.S. Constitution.

You have declared that the Congress has no jurisdiction over the Executive branch. Please telegram your finding to President Obama. I’m sure he will be delighted to learn that his next cabinet appointment, the next treaty he negotiates, and also Sonya Sotomayor’s nomination needn’t go through Congress to be put into effect.

Also, you have stated categorically that Congress cannot pass laws giving it jurisdiction over the executive. Who, may I ask, in your scenario, passes laws? Who was it that brought articles of impeachment against President Clinton? Who was it that barred the use of Treasury funds (under control of the Executive in the U.S. system) to aid the Contras during the Reagan Administration? Do you have any idea how the government works?

The reason Iran-Contra was never followed to the ground was that Congress was afraid to go after President Reagan, who by that time had become an object of great sympathy to the public, since under questioning he could scarcely remember anything that happened during the entire course of his presidency. It was pathetic to watch him on tape, but his bumbling, empty-headed performance was the best testimony possible that he was never fit to be president. The Congress knew that if it followed the laws and went after Reagan, every member would suffer for it at the polls.

You understand nothing of either the government or human nature.

Rudy said...

Pragmatus, you really have no idea what you're talking about, you are just blowing smoke.

I think you fail to grasp the separation of powers aspect of the constitution. Congress does not have jurisdiction over the executive branch. Advise and consent is not jurisdiction; it's in the constitution. Impeachment is not a law passed by congress; it's in the constitution. Congress didn't endow itself with those powers.

Congress can pass all the laws it wants, but it cannot pass enforcable laws that take power away from the executive branch. The laws we're discussing fall into that category.

Iran Contra did not move forward for exactly this reason, not because of some supposed sympathy for Reagan. He was on the right side of that dispute.

Alan said...

slasher14 said: One should be a tax cut to everyone below a certain income level (say $250,000) in more or less the same form as the first stimulus.

In these tight and uncertain times, tax cuts are not a very good stimulus policy. People worried about their jobs are more likely to save this money than to spend it.

Mike in Maryland said...

Pragmatus,

Trying to discuss anything with someone like 'Rudy' is pointless. After all, 'Rudy' is one of those who believes in the Cheney 'unified executive' doctrine of UN-Constitutional usurpation of power into the White House.

In other words, a certifiable wingnut, aka a TROLL.

The only way to 'discuss' things with them is to make fun of any 'discussion points' they make that they can't back up, and/or can be easily dismembered as totally fallacious. Of course, that's almost all 'discussion points' that they attempt to advance.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

pechmerle said...

Rudy, you have very odd ideas about the structure of the U.S. Constitution. The CIA was established by act of Congress (the National Security Act of 1947), and could be abolished by legislation. The CIA's powers can neither be expanded nor limited by executive action alone.

None of the great executive departments, even State or Treasury, are constitutionally established. All exist by virtue of Congressional legislation. The Congress most certainly does have "jurisdiction" to regulate the structure and scope of the CIA.

nova_middle_man said...

Are you guys living on bizzaro world. Oh wait its the true liberal big government is always best crowd.

Alan said...

nova_middle_man: Sorry, old boy, it's the Republican bizzaro world these days. Or have you forgotten the Reagan and Bush big governments?

(And how about Palin, Ensign, and Sanford? I think conservatives have a lock on bizzaro these days!)

KIC said...

jdk I am one of those people who believe tax cuts are in no way an answer. I'm sorry but to continue to give tax cuts IS more of the same old thing that *doesn't work*. I don't care who says it, dem or republican. You can't cut the interest rates anymore and "cutting taxes" has proved to be half of what got us here. If anyone truly thinks all it would have taken is some tax cuts to dig us out of this they are dreaming.

Also, "short run" is another thing that got us here. Continually thinking of what to do for the short term is no answer either. This is 30 or better years in the making. I'm tired of "short term" thinking.

My questions still stand.

PeteKent said...

You Break it – You Buy It

Nate, unlike many of the LIB posters here, is a realist where it comes to the economy and he can read the tea leaves and see the likely persistence of high unemployment as a real political problem for the Democrats and he is prefiguring quite a significant loss of seats for the Donkey Party in 2010.

It is now becoming nearly conventional wisdom that Obama’s stimulus legislation has failed. It will have little impact until next year, a time by which CV would have anticipated that the recession would have been over anyway. Of course, the bill was poorly designed and was much more a disguised social agenda for America than a jobs and recovery bill.

The failure of the stimulus will now throw great suspicion on Obama and his ability to forecast economic matters and the impact of policy (e.g. healthcare reform!). Obama’s credibility is on the line as it appears he lied about the impact of his economic legislation and used fuzzy math and phony statistics to get what he wanted in a bill that had to be passed within hours or else!

The next casualty will likely be Cap N’ Trade which has a very low possibility of being enacted into law, except perhaps as some here have suggested in a lame duck session after the mid-terms. (How shocking that the Democrat Party would be unwilling to expose its agenda to the people and would rather pass it by dark of night under conditions where they may have two years to calm the people’s wrath.) There is something wrong with a party that would behave that way and in such tactical calculation may be sown the seeds of even greater defeat.

Nate makes the mistake of describing unemployment as a “lagging indicator”. While typically, employment is one of the last of the economic indicators to pick up in a recovery, many economists now are seeing a paradigm shift, particularly because of the very extent of unemployment and how, as it continues to climb (some are saying now it may touch 14%), it will create a very negative economic feedback loop that will cause more defaults on mortgages and other loans and will continue to suppress spending to the point where the economy will remain mired in the doldrums for several years, with unemployment remaining at stubbornly high and politically unacceptable levels.

Which brings us to Obama’s re-election year of 2012. If he presides over a pallid, anemic economy which set on a “new normal” of subpar growth, there will be a price to pay. And a heavy one. We see that thus far the recession is hurting men the most. Indeed some have taken to calling it a “He-cession”. Men have always been the most fragile element of Obama’s coalition and as they peel away his support will plummet.

If only our President had not been such an ideologue and he had designed his stimulus bill to actually do something about the economy instead of reward the likes of ACORN and implement his liberal social policy agenda, he might have stood a chance. But now it’s a matter “You break it, you buy it”. Obama owns the economy and as it goes so go his fortunes.

The signs are not promising. A Republican tide will be rising.

I want him to fail and I am getting my wish!

Romney – Palin ‘12

petekent01 (on twitter)

PeteKent said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Pragmatus said...

PeteKent…

Your predictions come so fast and furious that you must wear out one crystal ball a week. Must be quite an expense—can you write them off on your taxes?

PeteKent said...

Actually, Pragmatus, I have been making this same prediction for months and months. It is only now that it is becoming accepted wisdom, even by our own precious Nate!

Go ahead and wail and gnash your teeth in darkness, fool!

petekent01 (on twitter)

shrinkers said...

Congress can't make laws that infringe on the executive branch???

First, requiring that the CIA tells Congress what it's doing does not infringe upon the executive branch. It merely allows the constitutionally-mandated congressional oversight. Without full and accurate reporting, no oversight is possible.

In fact, in a democracy - my opinion here - the executive branch should have no rights to secrecy whatever. We, the People are supposed to be the decision makers. Without being fully informed, we can't make informed decisions. Duh.

But as for infringing on the powers of the executive branch - Congress can't alter the constitutionally-mandated powers of the executive. But Congress can certainly put other requirements on the President or any other governmental official - witness, for example, the War Powers Act, or even the laws that created the CIA, the FBI, and all other executive agencies.

This idea that Congress can't make laws that apply to the Executive is simply absurd, and utterly false.

geek said...

The auto and residential construction had been drivers of the economy. It appears that the banking industry have been stabilized but demand is lagging because of economic pessimism.

The major layoffs appear to be over and now the thought is that a slow but steady recovery is ahead.

If I were King I am not sure what I would do to change things but doubt that another stimulus package is necessary or would do any good.

andy r said...

jindal is not an american citizen he was born in india. both his parents were indian citizens and wanted to return home for his birth.

it wasnt till years later they became american citizens.

that is one of the reason jindal refuses to produces his birth certificate. that is going to be a real problem for the republicans.

Rudy said...

Nice straw man, playing semantic games to twist my words and meaning. The fact remains that congress does not have jurisdiction over the execulive branch, that the CIA does not need to tell congress everything that passes across anyone's desk, and Cheney did nothing that he would be prosecuted for. All other twisting is superfluous.

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