7.16.2009

The Obama Effect Considered

President Obama has been described as many things - a Rorschach inkblot; a movement; a new America; a fraud; a demagogue. For whatever it is that he ultimately represents to the world -- the United States living up to its ideals, perhaps -- he is incredibly popular.

Among major world leaders, he polls by far the best among the global community* :

Among countries where the United States has a very poor image, for example among six Arab states in the Middle East, Obama widely outperforms.


What still is not clear, however, is how much of Obama's popularity is due to his own efforts, or those of his predecessor. For many in the global (and U.S.) community, a considerable portion of his charm is simply not being George W. Bush. Whether softening the US rhetoric on Iran, Cuba and Russia, making highly public statements about reducing civilians casualities in Afghanistan, or committing to less interventionism in Latin America, popular opinion is that the foreign policy of the Obama administration is a huge turnaround on the Bush years.

The analysis of some observers, however, has suggested the Obama foreign policy approach is largely identical to Bush's, just packaged in a much more friendly fashion. By quantitative measures of foreign policy, limited as they are in their explanatory power, does tend to support this stance. By examining the two major financial investments that a government makes in its foreign policy application -- military spending and development aid -- we can roughly look at the application of hard and soft power in the implementation of foreign policy priorities.

For the last twenty years, the US approach to foreign policy application has changed little, by this measure, although the intensity of its application has. From the late 1980s through the Clinton administration, the drawdown from the Cold War meant a reduced engagement with many parts of the world. The more interventionist Bush policies pushed both spending areas back up through the 2000s. But throughout, each type of spending generally maintained its proportion of foreign policy outlays. The following chart illustrates this, showing development aid (ODA) and military spending (MIL) as percentage above or below their twenty-year average.

In fact, military spending between 2004 and 2007 is actually understated here, because the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were funded off-budget through “emergency” appropriations bill. The low 1989 figures for ODA are due to the US’s record 79% UN budget arrears in George H.W. Bush’s first year in office.

While the specific policy foreign priorities of the three Presidents included in this period (Soviet/post-Soviet transition & Gulf War; NATO driven actions & reduced spending in order to focus domestically; Aggressive intervention in select countries & aid to Africa) were quite different, their underlying spending strategies of high military spending and relatively low development aid were very much in unison.

As it turns out, the Obama plan is actually strongly in keeping with the US strategy of the last twenty years, with regards to military spending and development aid. In addition, in keeping with the George W. Bush administration’s escalation of spending in both areas following 9/11, Obama’s budget calls for increases in both military spending and development aid. This includes a more robust focus on multilateral diplomatic institutions (e.g. Susan Rice’s now cabinet-level post), but an even greater focus on the role of military allies in the U.S. strategy regarding Iran, North Korea, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and continued military spending increases, even adjusting for the Bush off-budget moves.

While he is shifting the application of the strategy between locations and priorities, the overall Obama strategy reflects the more fundamental American idea of how to successfully deploy foreign policy ideas, which remains heavy on the military intervention, and light on the permission-asking. Indeed, the global public still see the U.S. foreign policy as a largely force-driven operation*.

The Obama team seems to be focused on ensuring that these aggressive military activities are now complemented with a robust and well-considered plan of discussion and dialogue, rather than unilateral action. And the Obama effect of acting also as bridge-builder-in-chief has mean that suddenly, the activities are being marketed to the world in a way that builds confidence more than resentment. Both based on identity, charisma, and downright shrewdness, Obama has been able to re-market the U.S. in an exciting, and likely more accurate, fashion.
-----

*These polls evaluated the aggregate popularity of world leaders and opinions in the following countries: China, India, the United States, Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russia, Mexico, Germany, Great Britain, France, Poland, Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Kenya, Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, the Palestinian territories, and South Korea. The score from each leader's home country was excluded from the average shown.

note: Thanks to commenters for pointing out several typos.
---
Renard Sexton is FiveThirtyEight's international columnist and is based in Geneva, Switzerland. He can be contacted at sexton538@gmail.com

65 comments

Brian said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Zahlman said...

Is "demigog" supposed to be a portmanteau of "demigod" and "demagogue"? :)

CZ said...

While on a macro scale I think it is easy to say expenditure layout and major initiatives are in keeping with the pattern of US foreign policy over the last 20 years, I thnik it is more subtle than that. A close friend of mine is an international economist working in west africa on a US contract. During the Bush admin there was a significant level of input by the state department to use the data they were collecting to supposibly improve the bargaining position of the US in trade negotiations rather than improving the economy of West Africa. Under the Obama admin, this has changed significantly although the stated goals of the program and dollar values have not changed. Furhtermore, there have been many substantive changes in international ag policy which are following very closely to 15 years of recomendations by international ag professinals which heretofore were subjugated to political concerns. Obama has specifically instituted many of these policy changes.

If these micro changes are imbeded in the funding of policy throughout the world, it will be noted by the end receipient while at the macro level the appearance of continuted balance of funding and programs will be present. Only time will tell, but both the promise and the devil is in the details and, in west african international ag communities, there has been a higher level of optimism then in many of the preceding years.

George said...

"What still is not clear, however, is how much of Obama's popularity is due to his own efforts, or those of his predecessor. For many in the global (and U.S.) community, a considerable portion of his charm is simply not being George W. Bush."

It's clear to me. If John McCain were President I do not think you'd see this positive response.

markymark said...

Really interesting post. Firstly interesting to note just how popular Obama is. (I hope PK takes a few minutes to read this post and respond tee hee). Now it is important to remember that Obama is in a prolonged honeymoon, which few other leaders he is compared to are. But even still he is doing quite impressively.

Secondly its interesting to compare Obama to Bush a year ago. No again its not comparing apples to apples, but even still what a difference a year can make. And its important to remember Obama's standing in the polls against the bloviating of the right (and also the bloviating of the left who regard Obama as a demigod (yes I am looking at you Mr Mathews and Mr Olberman).

But its also interesting to see Gordon Brown's figures, living in the UK. He is thought of as quite unpopular I think, in the British media, and yet his overall margin is only just negative. Not bad for someone who has been on the national scene for a long long time now.

Peter said...

Don't underestimate the power of branding. Also, words mean a lot, which words you choose and how you deliver them. They can mean the difference between gaining allies and alienating friends. This is what the Bush Administration never seemed to understand. You can insist that your motives are pure, but if your rhetoric is belligerent and jingoistic, no one is going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and you're going to end up with more adversaries than you would otherwise.

Eric said...

...let's keep it real. For all you stat geeks out there, you've seen numbers for past world leaders as well. This is an outlier. His numbers are not just extraordinary compared to other leaders of our time, but also to other leaders of anytime. This is without a lot of accomplishment thusfar. It's about hope. He is in most everyway the opposite of his predecessor. His predecessor, by many, is regarded as the worst or one of the worst US Presidents, especially with relation to the rest of the world. As Obama is regarded as the opposite of Bush Jr., Obama's numbers reflect a combination of extreme fondness for him and his potential to make changes perceived for the better and a change away from W. Bush. Fear is a stronger motivating factor than hope. I would say they're about equal in their effect on Obama's numbers. Those numbers are extraordinary. Hopefully they'll stay close to where they are.

Lord of the Files said...

Demigog = half a gog

Brian said...

Demogog = a gog of the people.

Tanystropheus said...

In the first mentioned poll, the name of the Chinese leader should be "Hu".

PeteKent said...

Obama the Liar

Those who lie and mislead the world about their actions often do not remain popular for long.

Obama's own words prove he is lying about the economy and the stimu-u-less bill. He lied then and he continues to lie now.

http://tinyurl.com/mgkrtn

As he tap dances around a collapsing employment market brought on (or at the very least exacerbated) by his unsound policies (another 500,000 lost their jobs last week alone), as he tries to pass a so-called energy bill that is nothing more than a carbon tax, and tries to ruin healthcare by moving us all to a Canadian style system that will put crushing taxes on small business and penalize workers, Obama seems unconcerned and somehow above it all, Peter Lawford-like, strolling thru the cocktail party without a care in the world.

His allies in Congress are panicking indeed: They must face the voters in little over a year. Watch as they abandon his agenda and the world begins to notice what a failure Obama really is.

I am glad he is failing!

petekent01 (on twitter)

AtSwimTwoBirds said...

I'm afraid it's the dreaded "c" word. The U.S. President has yet to introduce any foreign policy innovations, and so his popularity abroad will naturally be high due to his celebrity status.

Of course, when he eventually does something to affect the global situation, ultra-pacifist Europe will think he is being nasty.

PeteKent said...

And, PS,

However you slice and dice it over at Rasmussen (Nate's favorite pollster) Obama’s approval ratings have plummeted by more than 30 points since he took office. THIRTY POINTS!

Even Dubya was more popular at this point in his terms - -and he stole the election from Al Gore!

Gallup tells a similar directional tale in terms of collapsing Obama approval.

Could it be the toll of his policies?

Or are Americans just getting sick of seeing the fey wanker on the TV day after day, acting so cool and debonair while millions are out of work and the economy limps along?

The whole thing is smelling like one long, one term to me!

Your boy is goin’ down!

petekent01 (on twitter)

Rick Arvielo said...

Thanks for the insight
http://www.rickarvielo.com

Opus 132 said...

@ marymark

And its important to remember Obama's standing in the polls against the bloviating of the right (and also the bloviating of the left who regard Obama as a demigod (yes I am looking at you Mr Mathews and Mr Olberman).

Twice in the last two weeks Olbermann has really ripped into Obama (and rightfully so) for (1)shying away from investigatng the crimes of Bush,Cheney,Woo and Company in the areas of interrogation torture,waterboarding,etc.,and (2)doing absolutely nothing about DADT when a simple executive order would alleviate the situation pending congressional action.

mcc said...

Uh, apparently there's a character limit now? I'm gonna split this post into two parts.

So one problem with the analysis here is that you're approaching the question of whether Obama's foreign policy is different from that of previous presidents in terms of just spending-- the scale of U.S. military interventionism. I see three problems with this way of looking at things:

1. Is it even possible for the spending on, and scale of, U.S. military interventionism to have changed meaningfully in the time since Obama became President? These battleships are sort of slow to turn around. Funding is driven by strategies; if the military has been following one strategy for many years, you must change strategies before changing funding levels, and it may not be politically reasonable or practically possible to do this instantly or by fiat. For a silly example if we were to just set the funding on the Iraq war to literally zero immediately we'd create a huge problem for the military even if the military or foreign-policy value of remaining in Iraq is zero, because there would be enormous amounts of military equipment and such just sitting on the ground that would take many months and lots of money to pull out of the country (unless we just leave stuff behind like we did in Vietnam). The important thing here might not be the scale of the U.S. military operation now, but the scale of the U.S. military operation over the next two to eight years or so. And if we look at the expected scale of things over the next two years, we get a very different picture-- that of escalation in Afghanistan, but also drawdown in Iraq at a pace that might not be as rapid as some of us would have liked, but is much more rapid than some of the mocked up plans had occurring or than McCain would have likely done. Extrication from Iraq, even if it's not as complete as we'd like, should pay off serious dividends before too long in ability to reduce military spending and scale-- and in terms of the subject of this article, can pay off *now* in terms of U.S. popularity and world image, since the world in judging the U.S. may be willing to ask the "what will the U.S. military be doing in two years?" question rather than the "what is it doing now?" question.

2. On a similar note, the money analysis necessarily compares Obama to previous administrations rather than hypothetical administrations that might have otherwise been in office right now. Therefore the analysis "punishes" Obama for failure to reduce spending, but does not reward him for failure to increase it. (The right, indeed, attacked Obama's defense spending increase as a "decrease" because it was a slightly smaller increase than was asked for.) This isn't just nitpicking: there have been at least two incidents this year, in North Korea and Iran, where a different President might well have responded with some sort of military buildup or response (never mind for a moment the question of whether we have any military capacity left after the overcommitment of Bush's wars), say maybe with calls for new permanent missile defense systems installations. However in both cases Obama if anything erred on the side of noninterventionalist/diplomatic responses to the problem. Again this is something that could be impacting U.S. world image already, that the U.S. had chances at further military buildup and did not take them.

mcc said...

...

3. Is spending even what the world is looking at in judging what the U.S. "strategy" is? If we're going to understand how the world perceives the U.S., or perceives the Obama approach as different from the Bush approach, then we need to think about the way the world measures U.S. influence, not the way the Vice President of the Columbia University Libertarians does. Even aside from the fact that the world probably doesn't care how powerful the U.S. is as much as it does how insulting the U.S.' behavior is (the "market[ing] to the world in a way that builds confidence more than resentment" you mention), the rest of the world probably isn't gauging the scope of the U.S. military operation in terms of cost so much as intrusiveness. Cost is probably more important to us in the domestic political context than it is in terms of any kind of foreign policy message sent. (Your numbers show, if I'm reading them right, Reagan spending more on the military than Bush? Do you think the world viewed the Reagan administration as more militaristic than Bush?) Meanwhile American foreign policy intrusiveness can include things that don't show up on a cost analysis at all; for example, the recent coup in Honduras. Let's say that the U.S. had supported the coup in Honduras, as would have been standard under any number of previous Presidents-- this wouldn't have cost us a dime. But would the world have really viewed the U.S. military supporting a coup in Honduras any differently from if the U.S. military had invaded Honduras itself?

Basically: I think it's quite possible to argue that Obama is getting more credit from the world than he deserves in terms of the world viewing his policy changes positively in disproportion to those changes actually being substantive-- either because he's better at marketing or just because he's wielding his power more smartly. But I think the particular way of arguing that which you've tended toward here is hiding some changes that actually have occurred that I think the world could be viewing as substantial and not just marketing...

kurdi said...

Though I live in Seattle, as Jordanian I will tell you that it is because Obama has said things that have never been said before that he is popular.

Using the term "resistance" to refer to the Palestinian struggle. Acknowledging their daily "humiliation" and suggesting that it has to come to an end, comparing them with the black struggle in South Africa and the black civil rights movement in the US (all of this in the Cairo Speech). This is very impressive to many Arabs, especially moderate Arabs who want above all else for the US to be a fair and (sufficiently) unbiased broker of peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Interesting insight kurdi.

I'd be interested in hearing directly from Arabs from around the world.

Maybe 538 can do some phone interviews with people from around the globe and get a sense of what people are thinking.

markymark said...

Opus, I didn't meant to suggest that those on the left haven't been uncritical, and I wouldn't expect them to be. Its the tone of disdain the left has that kind of grinds my gears a bit at the moment. I know there are good reasons on some issues, but I think the tone from the likes of Olberman has been wrong. Even the critical segments have a 'see were not like Fox News in reverse at all' level to them.

brown said...

Fey wanker? Really?

Brian Jenkins said...

Your Military spending/ ODA chart shows that Bush significantly increased American foreign aid, and we has roundly booed for it. Obama is popular even though he's changed nothing in budgetary terms (no budgets have passed yet), and he has largely continued Bush's foreign policy commitments.

In other words, it's clear that America's image in other countries has little or nothing to do with anything America does or doesn't do. Obama and Clinton are beloved of the left, which control most of the world's major media, and were therefore popular; Reagan and the Bushes were despised by the left, and thus weren't popular. Nothing they actually did mattered at all in terms of America's "image."

This raises the question of why we should give a damn, especially since this "image" doesn't translate into significant economic, military, or law enforcement consequences.

PeteKent said...

Yeah, "fey wanker" absolutely!

petekent01 (on twitter)

Michael said...

Does anyone else find it ironic that just as many Kuwaitis have an unfavorable opinion about the USA as those who have a favorable one.

Remember that when Iran decides to take over that little shithole full of oil sometime in the next 5 years

Alon Levy said...

The family name of China's president is Hu. Jintao is his given name. Chinese names begin with the family name and end with the the given name, hence the confusion. Referring to Hu as Jintao is like referring to Obama as Barack, or like referring to Bush Jr. as George.

PeteKent said...

Libs must be very dispirited. They are all moping and not posting.

They, too, kno Obama is failing!

petekent01 (on twitter)

BlueRevolution said...

Blah, Blah, Blah, PeteKent01...nobody puts much credibility into your often racist rants about the 44th President of the United States. The fact that you believe Sarah Palin qualified to be President immediately removes you from all substantive, rational political discussion---that and your proud membership in the 'birther' movement.

P.S. For all of you 538.com bloggers, a so-called 'birther' is a person who believes that Obama is unqualified for the Oval Office because he supposedly has not proven natural-born citizenship. See also 'crazy', 'bigoted' and 'irrational' in the American Poilitical Dictionary.

AB said...

Already commented on but not yet corrected: in Chinese, names are given FamilyName FirstName, and the Chinese President's last name is Hu. (Other leaders are not listed Barack, Gordon, Angela, etc...)

Greg F said...

Michael

Considering Iran and Kuwait do not share a border, I feel like it would be rather difficult for Iran to invade Kuwait, although admittedly not impossible.

Pragmatus said...

Off-topic post…

Ten years ago today, John Kennedy Jr. was killed in a plane crash.

Forty years ago this Saturday, Mary Jo Kopechne drowned in Ted Kennedy’s car off Chappaquiddick.

Forty years ago this Monday, people walked for the first time on the moon.

PeteKent...

I keep hoping one of your fits of rage will result in you busting a gusset, resulting in a spell in the hospital.

boulder-liberal said...

"Libs must be very dispirited. They are all moping and not posting.

They, too, kno Obama is failing!"


Yea, we Libs are devastated. Obama has only managed to:

1. Sign the stimulus package
2. Improve the image of the US around the world
3. Sign laws that would extend health care for children
4. Lift restrictions on federally funded embryonic stem cell research
5. Lift travel restrictions for Cuban Americans
6. Deliver a moving speech in Egypt that was aimed at repairing the US relationship with the Muslim world.
7. See his first (of many to come in Obama's next 7 1/2 years in office) nominee for supreme court confirmed by the Senate

And, for four days, we got to witness the Republicans attack the first Latina woman nominated to the Supreme Court, knowing that the Republicans were further distancing themselves from the swing voters in this country.

Yea, I'm so dispirited I think I'm going to sit back, drink a beer, and watch Jeff Sessions talk about "doing that crack cocaine thing" on youtube.

Quixote said...

Renard appears to be surprised that people might actually be more concerned with the (actual or potential) _application_ of military expenditures or development aid than the size of those numbers or the ratio between them.

Can't say I'm all that shocked when someone's opinion of US foreign policy doesn't brush aside little things like diplomacy and "foreign policy priorities" to focus on a laughably crude budgetary metric.

matador said...

boulder-liberal said...
7. See his first (of many to come in Obama's next 7 1/2 years in office) nominee for supreme court confirmed by the Senate

July 17, 2009 2:37 AM


7 1/2 more Obama's years.
...damn.
don't tell PK.
:P

@Renard,
thanks God You didn't include Berlusconi "Among major world leaders".
:)

greetings from Italy.

ciao.

Chris Of Rights said...

Of course he's well liked. The rest of the world doesn't want a strong America.

(of course this is stupid on their part--for the most part anyway...for most of the middle east, it's probably a good idea)

Obama represents a weaker America. If I was a French citizen I'd be thrilled about a weaker America too.

This data is very disturbing, and the fact that there are people in America that see it has heartening is even more disturbing.

WCG said...

Do you really think it's valid to compare Barack Obama's military spending and development aid, when he's been in office such a very short time? More importantly, he inherited two wars and an economic collapse. What did you expect? Severe cuts in military spending during wartime? Vast new spending on development aid, when the U.S. economy is in the toilet?

As MCC noted, the ship of state doesn't turn on a dime. And Barack Obama is more constrained than most presidents by the terrible mess - the multiple messes - left to him by the worst president, and the most disastrous administration, in U.S. history. As a practical matter, he's going to have a hard time doing everything he wants - or even most of it - especially considering the huge changes he's struggling to make in health care and energy reform.

I'd say it's MUCH too early to judge him on this stuff.

Quixote said...

"The rest of the world doesn't want a strong America.

(of course this is stupid on their part...)

... If I was a French citizen I'd be thrilled about a weaker America too."

So you think you would be a stupid French citizen?

John said...

boulder-liberal - YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

matador said...

Chris Of Rights said...
Of course he's well liked. The rest of the world doesn't want a strong America.


July 17, 2009 9:03 AM

You are soooo wrong.

“Allow the president to invade a neighbourhood nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose and you allow him to make war at pleasure.”
Signed: Abraham Lincoln.

Of course, Lincoln had both a brain and a heart, by which attributes modern GOP would classify him as weak, and a traitor.
GOP seems to view the Devil himself as too idealistic and weak.
Obama is willing to go down the path of diplomacy, by sitting down without preconditions with people who may be unscrupulous, but who do have power.
Peace and prosperity will dry up the drinking well of fundamentalists.
Or at least, I believe it will in my naïvité.
Anyway, my two cents worth, if it is that much.
I'am so glad US have a thinking president sitting in the Ovale office,again.

ciao.
:)

Mule Rider said...

...left to him by the worst president, and the most disastrous administration, in U.S. history.

I think Bush was a huge tool and was a bad president; HOWEVER, until you can logically explain how the US was worse off in 2001-today than it was during and right after-

-the Civil War
-the Great Depression (the REAL one)
-the Vietnam Era

then please stop with the hyperbole. It's getting tired and redundant. Bush sucked, yes, but the US has suffered much worse at many different periods than we have under his watch.

Even periods of "peace" in the past, especially before the 1960s, were marked with violent racism (slavery, Jim Crow laws, etc.), lawlessness (the old West, scuffles between Anglos and the Native Americans), and just outright hard living.

Please stop with the "Bush was worst in US history" crap.

goldkngt55 said...

"Boulder Liberal you are an idiot!"

This incredibly non idiotic comment brought to you by John.

In no way shape or form was this comment about a comment idiotic.

PeteKent said...

Off topic: Celebrating the Moon Landing

I look forward to Charles Krauthammer every Friday and today he did not disappoint. He wrote about the importance of space exploration, looking back to that historic human achievement 40 Years Ago. Something even an Italian like Matador can be proud of!

http://tinyurl.com/l6h6ym

The article brought nostalgic tears to my eyes, causing me to recollec that seminal event from my boyhood when in amazement I witnessed men landing and walking on the Moon!

It was the culmination of a decade long aspiration and it fueled within me and I think countless other Americans (and world citizens generally) the sense of the possibility and wonder at what man as a species could accomplish.

Imbued within that boy that I was lo those many years ago was a sense of invincibility and ability to do whatever I wanted because I was part of a culture that could do such things.

In the years since 1969 we have accomplished so much – perhaps not in terms of space technology and exploration but in other fields. Medicine and computers among the most prominent. Indeed with the advent of micro processing and the internet we have created a microcosm in miniature that seems to rival the universe itself at times.

But it would be the folly of man to think so. Indeed I wonder if all this navel gazing we have been doing has done us much good. We seem so focused on scarcity and of privation that we are losing sight of the essential genius of the human race and of the spirit of the United States and what made it a great nation in particular. In an era of hope, we seem focused on hopelessness.

This is America, people: We should lift our eyes to the stars!


petekent01 (on twitter)

Bradford said...

Off topic, but this is what will stop Obama's agenda - the CBO estimate of the deficit.

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=328

Bart DePalma said...

Using polls to govern a nation's foreign policy is even more foolish than dong so to govern domestic policy. At least domestic polling might include some voters.

Foreign policy is successful when it achieves national objectives. A policy that is popular with our rivals, but fails to achieve national objectives, is a failure.

ISS Man 71 said...

@mule rider

I don't think Bush's legacy or placement as worst president ever can be fully judged until the full impact of his policies and actions have a time to unfold.

Your examples:

The Civil War- Arguably the country was worse off, but that could hardly be laid at the feet of Lincoln or even any one of his predecessors.

The Great Depression - Pinning that on Hoover is likewise not an equivalent excercise. He was almost an innocent bystander by comparison. You can argue that his position in the cabinet of a preceding president (Harding, I think) adds to his culpability, but I think it can be equally assigned to a variety of issues and multiple presidents.

Vietnam - I think our current situation is more dire than post-vietnam. The armed forces are arguably in a better state (due to lessons learned from VN) but we are certainly facing the possibility of not being able to pay for them, or much of anything else.

There were less effective presidents, but outside of two qualified supreme court nominations(and 1 near disastrous nominee), almost everyone Bush picked to run programs or departments was either 1) a bad choice or 2) driven out of public service.

The Teapot Dome crew has nothing on Wolfowitz, Cheney et al.

I don't think it is correct to say NOW Bush is the worst president in history, but he will certainly be eligible for consideration.

Semper Fi,
Terry

matador said...

@Petey,
very nice comment about landing on the moon !
It's the first one I have ever read from you,congratulation.
And yes,I watched it,proudly and breathless.
Now is time for America to make the second landing:
Follow and support Obama's endeavour to get back to you all, your land of freedom and opportunities which Bush stole,I know that land is waiting somewhere out there...maybe over the rainbow...
:)

matador said...

Mule Rider said...



-the Civil War
-the Great Depression (the REAL one)
-the Vietnam Era


Please stop with the "Bush was worst in US history" crap.

July 17, 2009 11:52 AM

*********
@Muley,
IMHO (thanks to the guys whom explained me what IMHO means)

I can't remember the civil war,neither the great depression but from the Vietnam era on ,"yes I can remember" and believe me from JFK on, GWBush was the worst president...maybe Palin could go a little further than Him..but better you don't push Her that far.
:)

Tanystropheus said...

Off-topic comment: off-topic comments should be banned. ;P

Mule Rider said...

...and believe me from JFK on, GWBush was the worst president...

Well, the commenter above didn't stipulate that the measure was "from JFK on." He/she unequivocally stated it was the worst and most disastrous in US history. If you trace that all the way back to independent governance, it covers 233 years, not 49.

But if you want my opinion on the ones just since JFK, I still don't think W was the worst. The Vietname legacy and Watergate scar LBJ and Nixon, and I'd argue they were both worse than W. Carter's presidency was piss-poor but it's hard to say he does or will have a more tarnished legacy than W. The others I'm mostly fine with. So there's 2 in the last 50 years worse than Bush.

Mule Rider said...

For what it's worth, I'm shocked and amazed how liberals look back and now defend certain tenets of the Vietnam ordeal, which must be, in my opinion, their way of justifying the actions of intervenionist Democrats in the 1960s so Bush's policies on Iraq and Afghanistan look like more of a failure. Well, it doesn't work among the sane among us, and the liberals of 40 years ago would be ashamed of you for defending Vietnam for political reasosn (namely to just denigrate Bush further). If you really think about Vietnam, Iraq doesn't seem all that bad. Tens of thousdands dead and hundreds of thousands injured and maimed - and that's just on the American side.

Don't give me that crap about Bush and Iraq and act like that has been worse for this country. We've seen how bad it was on his watch - and it was pretty bad - but it pales in comparison to what happened in the late '60s and early '70s in Vietnam. If Iraq and Afghanistan devolve into something Vietnamesque from this point forward, you can hang that on Barack's head and not George Bush's.

Mike in Maryland said...

When you consider that the FY 2009 budget was signed by little shrub; and the FY 2009 budget is still in effect until September 30, 2009; and it was in the FY 2009 budget that the military and foreign aid budgets were established -

It is impossible to say that the military and foreign aid spending from January 20, 2009 to date are "Obama's". Yes, he has made a few changes, but the budget the federal government is operating under now until September 30, 2009, is little shrub's budget.

A President can make SOME changes in the budget after they enter office, but the area of foreign aid is one area that usually is not touched, or barely touched, except in EXTREMELY extenuating circumstances, such as a new, totally unexpected war, catastrophic natural event (tsunami, devastating earthquake, etc.), etc. Those types of circumstances have NOT occurred since January 20, 2009. Yes there was a very bad earthquake in Italy recently, but it was NOT a devastating event over a massive area.

To judge President Obama's impact on foreign aid, we need to look at the FY 2010 budget, which is just now being debated in Congress.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

matador said...

Mule Rider said...

He/she unequivocally stated it was the worst and most disastrous in US history.
July 17, 2009 5:22 PM

*********
I am an "He"...not that "He"..I mean the marine's cook but a man.
plus FYI :
I just stated,"as far as I can remember",ok?


Mule Rider said...
If you trace that all the way back to independent governance, it covers 233 years, not 49.
July 17, 2009 5:22 PM
*************

Really 233 years ???
thanks to tell me...I was in NC last year ,I sleeped in a motel located in Boulevard Van Buren...and I didn't know He was an US's president...


Mule Rider said...

But if you want my opinion on the ones just since JFK, I still don't think W was the worst. The Vietname legacy and Watergate scar LBJ and Nixon, and I'd argue they were both worse than W. So there's 2 in the last 50 years worse than Bush.

July 17, 2009 5:22 PM

**********
I respect your opinion...and I'll keep mine.
:)
just let me tell you that back in 1960/70 people in US were a lot different from today,that made the difference.

good night.
:)

harold said...

Blue Revolution -

Blah, Blah, Blah, PeteKent01...nobody puts much credibility into your often racist rants about the 44th President of the United States.

I hope that by "much" you meant "any".

A completely broken clock provides no information, because it always says the same thing, no matter what time of day it really is.

A clock that's always 12 hours off provides plenty of information.

But a completely broken clock is worthless.

Pete Kent does not declare "the opposite of reality" (which would be highly informative as long as you knew to believe the opposite of what he said). He just always says the same thing, regardless of reality.

PeteKent's output is thus 100% pure noise. There is no information.

There is a small terrier mix dog in my neighborhood who likes to sit and bark all day (a happy, healthy, and beloved companion, apparently). This dog is useless as a source of information, because he makes exactly the same amount and kind of noise, no matter what is happening. While I don't wish to insult the dog, I think it's a fairly good analogy.

shiloh said...

PeteKent said...

Obama the Liar

Those who lie and mislead the world about their actions often do not remain popular for long.

Obama's own words prove he is lying about the economy and the stimu-u-less bill. He lied then and he continues to lie now.

I am glad he is failing!
~~~~~~~~~~
And, PS,

However you slice and dice it over at Rasmussen (Nate's favorite pollster) Obama’s approval ratings have plummeted by more than 30 points since he took office. THIRTY POINTS!

The whole thing is smelling like one long, one term to me!

Your boy is goin’ down!
~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, "fey wanker" absolutely!
~~~~~~~~~~
Libs must be very dispirited. They are all moping and not posting.

They, too, kno Obama is failing!
~~~~~~~~~~
Off topic: Celebrating the Moon Landing
~~~~~~~~~~

Again as a casual observer, PK, please, I beseech you ;) chill brother. Obama will be president for the next 3 1/2 er (8) years!

Pace yourself dude, don't want you to fall thru the cracks of America's chaotic medical system, I kid!

As to why Dems/Libs/Progressives don't post 24/7 at Nate's site anymore. Again "we" won! 'nuf said and rubbing it in gets old in a hurry, eh. Was at a site the past (4) years where a disingenuously smug, self-loathing gay Rep constantly mentioned the Dems had lost (7) of the past (10) presidential elections. Coincidentally after Obama & the Dems cleaned the Rep's clocks on Nov. 4th this "hoity-toity" sore loser, sorry grape, bitter scumbag no longer posts in the political forum at said site, I digress ...

Did I mention the Dems won and succeeded beyond their wildest dreams ie a frickin' comedian beat an incumbent Rep senator in MN!

Thanx cheney/bush as Peggy Noonan said, for destroying the Rep party! And turd blossom, how's that permanent Rep majority working out for ya' ...

Hey PK, at least you stayed at a progressive site for further abuse lol. Is one a masochist! :)

And as you are determined to continue to post, please again I beseech you, try a different line of attack every now and then, eh ie Obama's/Dem's is/are a loser and he and the party are going down ~ Voter's are running out of patience ~ the polls don't look good etc. etc.

Yea, we heard you the first 100/200 posts recently when you said the same thing. Is it too much to ask for a little variety in your totally negative/Party of No!, the sky is falling, Obama is a loser/liar/wanker posts.

C'mon you can do it dude, a little originality to keep the site fresh and stimulated, I crack myself up!

So let's recap, chill dude! it's always darkest before your world turns totally black! ;) try to enjoy your indefinite stay in the wilderness. As a liberal independent who voted for McGovern in '72, the voter age being changed to (18) in 1971, again I digress, and having all the Rep/Con yahoos telling us liberals to love America or leave it! Sorry libs never go away, it must be our DNA! Yea, as someone who is used to being in the minority, a little friendly advice, Reps get used to it as older, white, fixednoise, Rep/Con voters continue to pass away and Hispanics continue to grow in population etc. etc.

The truth will set you free!

p.s. As an Ohioan ie Glenn/Armstrong, Wilbur/Orville, Eddie Rickenbacker etc. and more astronauts than other state, I too am looking forward to the 40th anniversary of an Ohioan first stepping foot on the moon!

RIP Judy Resnick :(

take care, blessings

"When you find yourself in the majority, it's time to pause and reflect! ~ Mark Twain"

ciao

Jason Henriksen said...

@Chris Of Rights

Only weaklings are afraid of being called a wimp. GWB was a wimp and a failure. Hell, Cheney was an evil bastard, but I have more respect for him than for Bush because at least he understood what he was doing. (I.E. making a war so that Haliburton could profiteer from it)

So do you want a 'strong' America that is just a bully and using it's military to get it's way?

Or do you want a truly strong America that gets real results?

Obama is inspiring people across the world to stand up for their rights. That moves us toward us the democracy we want. Greater results must mean that Obama has more strength than Bush.

Or to put it another way:


Who is stronger: the man with a fist full of dynamite? or the man with a blue-print, a bulldozer and a lot of friends?

Pragmatus said...

Bush’s presidency…

There have been some real turkeys in the White House, but no one with the lack of qualifications, intelligence or common sense that Bush displayed. His was a perfect trifecta of incompetence.

For instance, it is highly likely at some point during his campaigns and two administrations someone must have told him that the word “nuclear” is not pronounced “nookyoular”. If so, then that very simple thought could not penetrate his head, because he still mispronounces it. However if nobody ever said anything to him on the subject, it means they knew beforehand that trying to educate Bush on even so minor a point was hopeless. Or they kept their mouths shut out of fear of being ridiculed by him. The great refuge of the willfully ignorant is mockery of brains and learning, and Bush was quick to show his sword whenever either topic came up, and surrounded himself with the kind of folks who were all to happy to share his japes at knowledge and intelligence.

No one who committed the gaffes Bush did, then displayed such unconcern about them, can boast even a minimum of intelligence. He got to Yale because of family connections, then squeaked to a just-barely-made-it finish. His greatest accomplishment there apparently was making it as a cheerleader.

When confronted with decisions Bush was happy to toss them to someone else, or else have them intercepted by a greedy Cheney before they even got to him. Bush made no complaint, in fact his entire administration was run by people looking out for their own interests, grabbing and raiding willy-nilly, with him merely rubber-stamping everything he was told to rubber-stamp. He was even more of a figurehead than Queen Elizabeth II.

All of the above are indicators of a lousy president. I personally believe Bush is the worst president to date, but if someone else were to name, oh, I don’t know, Ronald Reagan as the worst I wouldn’t object.

markymark said...

Mule Rider, I am not entirely convinced I would consider Dubya to be the worst President in US History, but I certainly there is a case to be made. Sure he didn't leave a legacy of the Civil War or the Depression or the Vietnam War. But he did leave a foreign war, quite possibly illegally started, over questionable causes, without much of a strategy for post victory. And he left as dangerous an economic position as any American President since Hoover. Both of those things were avoidable, possibly connected and in the end as bad a legacy as any US President at least since Nixon or LBJ, and without the successes that you can credit to either Johnson or Nixon.

I am not sure that puts Bush below Buchanan or Hoover say, but its a pretty bad indictment on his 2 terms in office. I certainly think you can make a very strong case to say he was the worst President to have served 2 complete terms.

shiloh said...

My first Google blog post:

Tuesday, January 1, 2008

H.L. Mencken 1920 quote ...
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
~~~~~~~~~~
Mencken
Snopes
~~~~~~~~~~
So Mencken predicted George W. Bush being "appointed" president (80) years before it happened ~ Oh the humanity!

Bush is the perfect example of the Peter Principle ~ "You rise to your level of incompetence!"
~~~~~~~~~~
James Buchanan's opinion was that secession was illegal, but that going to war to stop it was also illegal; hence he remained inactive. By the time he left office, popular opinion had turned against him and the Democratic Party had split in two. His handling of the crisis preceding the Civil War has led to his consistent ranking by historians as one of the worst Presidents in American history. ~ wiki

take care, blessings

Pragmatus said...

James Buchanan was a bad president, but he was neither venal nor otherwise corrupt. His main failing was weakness and a misplaced sympathy for the South, which Southerners used to force him to make more and more concessions to their demands. Buchanan was helped along by a cabinet composed of a preponderance of Southerners until the last few months of his administration. The departure of John Floyd, the Virginian who was Secretary of War, and the addition of Joseph Holt, reversed the sentiment of the cabinet and stiffened Buchanan’s Union resolve, and where previously he might have surrendered Fort Sumter simply to avoid conflict, by March 1861 he had made it clear that he would surrender no Federal property to states that has claimed to have seceded.

For all Buchanan’s vacillating and superciliousness, at least he thought about the issues and tried, however ineffectually, to do the right thing.

shiloh said...

Pragmatus, was just posting a wiki article re: Buchanan because I knew historians generally had agreed that his presidency was probably the worst of all time.

You're obviously more of an expert on him than I, although my dad was a Civil War buff/expert which is the reason for my interest in that war also.

Made a post a couple mos. ago here quoting Thomas Ricks saying cheney/bush's decision to attack Iraq unprovoked was the worst military decision in the history of mankind. Someone responded that Hitler and Napoleon had made worst military decisions than cheney lol and I replied Hitler and Napoleon did not have the advantage of the modern information age ie cheney/bush should have known the long Iraqi history of Sunni/Shiite conflicts ie those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

ie:

"680: Hussein, son of Ali, marches against the superior army of the caliph at Karbala in Iraq. He is defeated, his army massacred, and he is beheaded. The split between Shia and Sunnis deepens. Shia consider Ali as their first Imam, Hussein as the third Imam." etc. etc.

Indeed cheney as Bush 41's Sec. of Defense agreed that the military should not go to Baghdad and engage Saddam Hussein at the end of Desert Storm.

Both Bush 41 and General Scowcroft knew getting rid of Hussien, Rummy's buddy ;) had no end game.

Bottom line, it will be fun watching cheney/bush apologists try to rationalize and prop up one of the worst administrations in the history of America. Good luck w/that, eh.

As I have said many times here and elsewhere, just like the Vietnam war will forever be a Dem war so will cheney/bush's Iraq war forever be the Rep's war. And "we" will know in 30/40 years if the surge has worked. We already do know the war was a major mistake in the first place, whether anything can be salvaged from the mess is still to be determined many, many years from now.

And the past 30 years of but, but, but Carter/Clinton by the shrinking Whig er Rep party has now been replaced w/but, but, but cheney/bush for the next (30) years by all rational Americans.

The ying and yang of turd blossom's permanent majority, again I digress.

take care, blessings

p.s. And I won't even discuss the financial mess dubya/darth have left the country in or Katrina, harriet myers, political corruption ie abramoff etc., scooter libby, constitutional violations ie illegal wiretaps, misuse of the CIA, port security embarrassment etc. etc.

btw, did we ever find bin Laden or who was responsible for the anthrax attack, hmm

I'll give the fools a pass on 9/11 because I blame the Military/FBI/CIA more than them despite the fact of their own incompetence and ignoring intelligence briefings. How embarrasing having a hijacked commercial airliner fly into the frickin' pentagon, the frickin' pentagon! Talk about getting caught w/your pants down. Being a USN veteran 9/11 really pissed me off to say the least.

OK, enough, I made my point!

ciao

Eric C said...

I don't know what people expected of Obama's FP, that it would somehow instantaneously get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The biggest hcnage has been what this pole reflects: we have begun to open dialogues with countries that Bush shut us off to.

cy said...

キャッシング
網頁設計
クレジットカード 現金化
ダンボール
留学
水 通販
ウィークリーマンション
障害者
有料老人ホーム
看板 製作
レーザー脱毛
フランチャイズ

J&D said...

A片下載|成人影片下載|免費A片下載|日本A片|情色A片|免費A片|成人影城|成人電影|線上A片|A片免費看

米蘭情趣用品|情趣用品|情趣|飛機杯|自慰套|充氣娃娃|AV女優.按摩棒|跳蛋|潤滑液|角色扮演|情趣內衣|自慰器|穿戴蝴蝶|變頻跳蛋|無線跳蛋|電動按摩棒|情趣按摩棒|

酒店上班請找艾葳 said...

艾葳酒店經紀公司提供專業的酒店經紀, 飯局小姐,領檯人員,領台,傳播妹,或者想要到台北酒店林森北路酒店,私人招待所,或者八大行業酒店PT,酒店公關,酒店兼職,想去酒店上班, 日式酒店,制服酒店,ktv酒店,禮服店,整天穿得水水漂漂的禮服酒店,鋼琴酒吧酒店領檯,酒店小姐,公關小姐??,還是想去制服店上班小姐,水水們如果想要擁有打工工作、晚上兼差工作兼差打工假日兼職兼職工作學生兼差兼差打工兼差日領工作晚上兼差工作酒店工作酒店上班酒店打工兼職兼差兼差工作酒店上班等,想了解酒店相關工作特種行業內容,想找打工假日兼職兼差打工、或晚班兼職想擁有快速賺錢又有保障的工作嗎???又可以現領請找專業又有保障的艾葳酒店經紀公司!

艾葳酒店經紀是合法的公司工作環境高雅時尚,無業績壓力,無脫秀無喝酒壓力,高層次會員制客源,工作輕鬆,可日領現領
一般的酒店經紀只會在水水們第一次上班和領薪水時出現而已,對水水們的上班安全一點保障都沒有!艾葳酒店經紀公司的水水們上班時全程媽咪作陪,不需擔心!只提供最優質的酒店打工,酒店上班,酒店打工環境、上班條件給水水們。心動嗎!? 趕快來填寫你的酒店上班履歷表

水水們妳有缺現金、有卡債缺錢卡奴的煩腦嗎?想到日本留學日本打工嗎?妳是工讀生找工作??想要擁有高時薪又輕鬆的夜間兼職工作,打工機會和,假日打工,兼職工作日領假日打工的機會嗎??想實現夢想卻又缺錢沒錢嗎!??整天還在煩腦如何賺錢有什麼賺錢方法,和賺錢最快方法!?,想要打工,日領工作,短期打工,兼差工作,打工兼差工作嗎!?,
請加入我們艾葳酒店經紀公司工作單純輕鬆”高時薪”又可日領徵想要當傳播妹,上班小姐,酒店兼差,酒店兼職,歡迎學生打工,!!!
加入我們實現夢想就從現在開始^__^

freefun0616 said...

酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店經紀,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店工作,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,

,

1google.cn said...

整形外科|童裝批發|春藥|徵信|清境民宿|機票|隔熱紙|玻尿酸|電波拉皮|美白針|脈衝光|花蓮民宿|徵信社|室內裝潢|指甲彩繪|清潔公司