UPDATE: Norm Coleman has conceded, rendering most of the below discussion moot.
____
The Minnesota Supreme Court has ruled unanimously (.pdf) that neither due process nor equal protection were violated during the conducting of that state's recount, and that therefore an election certificate should be given to the candidate determined to have the most votes, which was Al Franken.
Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty had suggested yesterday that he would sign the election certificate if the Supreme Court ordered him to. As the Court's decision does not appear to contain an explicit order to Pawlenty to sign the certificate, he may have some wiggle room to elect not to.
It's also possible that Coleman will concede; his chances of success in federal court are considiered low, and are probably lower still given the strength and unanimity of the decision in Minnesota. Moreover, as we have indicated many times, even if a federal court ruled in Coleman's favor and ordered a different procedure for re-counting the ballots, it is unlikely -- perhaps extremely unlikely -- that he would gain enough votes to overtake Franken.
More important than what Pawlenty does may be what the U.S. Senate chooses to do. Harry Reid could try and seat Franken, probably on a provisional basis, even if Pawlenty does not sign the certificate. Alternatively, John Cornyn could try to filibuster his seating even if Pawlenty has signed the certificate. My crude reckoning at this stage is that a filibuster would be slightly more likely than not to be broken, with one or more moderate (Olympia Snowe) or process-oriented (Chuck Grassley) Republicans being candidates to defect. But the spectacle of an attempt to filibuster Franken's seating would be intense and would carry plenty of risks and rewards for both sides, and might not be the the sort of thing that the usually risk-averse Reid would want to undertake. On the other hand, Democrats very well might need Franken's vote on health care, especially if they hope to pass a policy with a public option.
6.30.2009
Minnesota Supreme Court Rejects Coleman's Claims, Rules Election Was Fair
@ 3:00 PM
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90 comments
First!
And go Al!
First. Thank freaking God.
That first crap is just obnoxious. Stop it.
As for Al Franken I'm glad this ordeal is finally over, but the idea of one party controlling Congress so thoroughly isn't giving me warm fuzzies.
I'm glad to see a smart and logical person added to the healthcare debate (even if he is very liberal, hopefully he won't just recite the party line). I'll be interested to see what he has to add to the discussion.
If Norm Coleman takes this to Federal courts and the GOP supports this, it demonstrates that the Party of Personal Responsibility™
1)Condones taxation w/o representation for partisan reasons
2)Condemn states rights
I'm glad Al beat Norm too. As a conservative, I can't wait for his snarky, liberal voice to become a caricature of all of the over-reaching done by Obama and the Lefties that now run the show and to fully expose them as a group of radical nuts. When people see someone like Al Franken in office, that will just convince them further that a backlash is needed against this current liberal agenda and they'll turn out in droves to get a few more conservatives back in office to balance him out.
Yep, thanks Al. You just won conservatives 3 or 4 House members and 1 or 2 Senators all by your lonesome self. Make some more ridiculous - and sick and twisted - comments as you've been accustomed to doing and we can double that easily.
Thanks, Al!! Kindest regards.
This is GREAT NEWS...FOR AMERICA!!!
My wv is rancests. Must be people who are discriminatory or biased against particular ethnic groups that are incestual.
Inasmuch as Republicans think voting "No" is a policy, 60 votes should expedite legislation, help Republicans cast more "No" votes and so enable them to contribute less to more bills.
Something I've been wondering ever since November: what do the nearly half-million Minnesotans who voted for Dean Barkley think of all this? Is "Barkley '08" their "Nader '00"?
Because while part of me is very happy to see Franken's win, I can't help but remember what I thought of Gore's loss, and wonder, despite my own desires, whether Minnesotans got the senator they truly wanted.
Whether or not the Senate GOP tries to filibuster, they have lost this seat to the Dems.
Blocking the seating of a duly elected Senator would set an extremely bad precedent. After all, it would be far easier for the Dems to block any GOP seat in the future if they decided to use the same procedure.
So basically, after a lot of huffing and puffing I think the GOP Senate will just pass on this.
@dale sheldon
im from minnesota and i think a lot of people voted for barkley as an alternative to franken. in a two way race between franken and coleman or barkley and coleman, i think coleman would have lost both ways. people remember that he only got elected because his opponent died 2 weeks before the election.
THere's been a lot of bluster and BS about Pawlenty signing the certificate or not, whether GOP will try to filibuster Franken or not, whether Dems will seat him anyway because...blablabla!
At the end, every politicians should take a very deep breath and let common sense take over. (Yes, I know this is a tall order but...)
The snarky, arch-conservative voice of Dr. Who notwithstanding, it's time for the Repubs to stop playing games and let the new Senator do his job!
Congratulations, Senator Franken! You won this fair and square!
Coleman concedes!
I doubt if Cornyn would follow through with a threat to filibuster.
Not only would it likely fail but it would be a battle in which clearly Republicans were thwarting the will of the people. It would be only too easy to run ads against Republican Senators who were preventing the Minnesota election result from standing with their photo next to that of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
And they know it too. If the GOP wants to regain respectability they can't afford to continue to appear exclusively as the hyperpartisan 'party of no.'
14th! What do I win?
At what point is Pawlenty clearly shooting himself in the foot if he keeps stalling? What about the Senate Republicans?
I’m an independent (have been for 30+ years) and I don’t think having the Democrats controlling the Congress so thoroughly is frightening at all. Back in the 1970s I would have thought so, because the Demos back then did have an agenda that really wasn’t interested in listening to any other point of view. But they have learned a great deal since the upheavals of Reagan and the “Republican Revolution”.
I’m so independent that I think the ruling in the recent firefighters’ case was good. While it is important IMO to safeguard the rights of minorities, I believe it is possible to overdo it. I also thought school busing was a bad idea, and as far as guns are concerned I could not care less whether they are legal or not. I personally am opposed to having them around, but outlawing them won’t solve the problem of gun violence.
I also think the death penalty should be up to the individual states. I don’t think of it as cruel or unusual, but I also don’t think it my place to dictate to others what I think on the subject.
And, in closing—go Franken!!
rable: A disorderly mob in a country that cannot spell.
Coleman has conceded. Apparently, there will be no federal appeal.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24383.html
The snarky, arch-conservative voice of Dr. Who notwithstanding, it's time for the Repubs to stop playing games and let the new Senator do his job!
Congratulations, Senator Franken! You won this fair and square!
Exactly! He did win it fair and square. And I'm ready for him to do his job too - which will be to do anything and everything to trash the Constitution and run this country into the toilet, which will inevitably lead to a backlash and the election of trustworthy, capable, competent, and skilled conservatives to "right the ship."
I truly am rejoicing his election. I want the Dems to have another fruitcake lefty to have a voice for all to hear. I want them to have 60 votes. I want America to seem them on full display with no excuses. Snarky or not, his election is what's best for this country...by proving that the liberal movement can be a destructive force if left unchecked by the balance of enough conservative and center-right politicians.
Mark my word, in less than a year on the job, Franken will do and say things to scare the living shit out of most Americans, let alone Minnesotans.
SNL goes to Washington. What a story. We already knew it was a joke. Now it's just been confirmed by the MN Supreme Court!
And further verification from CNN.com of Coleman conceding:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/30/franken.ruling/index.html
Only the Senate GOP filibustering can stop Franken from being seated come Monday, when the Senate reconvenes after their Fourth of July recess. They really, really can't be this stupid to try that. Then again, you never can tell....with Boss Limbaugh running their caucus.
With that caveat, congrats, Senator Franken. And Minnesotans can now officially exhale.
Anthony
Eric said...
Coleman has conceded.
June 30, 2009 4:20 PM
balls have exploded.
:)
Coleman conceded and Pawlenty almost immediately issued a statement that the certificate would be signed today (who else thinks they planned it that way?).
Forgot to include the citation:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/06/30/supcoruling_senate/
Go ahead and show your true colors, Sanctimonious Joe, by accusing me of treason for celebrating Franken's victory only because it portends more doom for America. Go ahead and let the irony of your brand of sick, twisted hypocrisy sail right over your own head. Your intelligence is less than impressive. Go ahead and prove again that you are among the bottom feeders of society.
Doctor Who said...
I'm glad Al beat Norm too. As a conservative, I can't wait for his snarky, liberal voice to become a caricature of all of the over-reaching done by Obama and the Lefties that now run the show and to fully expose them as a group of radical nuts. When people see someone like Al Franken in office, that will just convince them further that a backlash is needed against this current liberal agenda and they'll turn out in droves to get a few more conservatives back in office to balance him out.
Yep, thanks Al. You just won conservatives 3 or 4 House members and 1 or 2 Senators all by your lonesome self. Make some more ridiculous - and sick and twisted - comments as you've been accustomed to doing and we can double that easily.
Thanks, Al!! Kindest regards.
This is GREAT NEWS...FOR AMERICA!!!,
LOL... Check the polls you wingnut dipshit. Obama's lost a few points in the last month because he's been far too cautious, hasn't been bold enough, and want him to drop the hammer and be more progressive on domestic issues. The Dems have been disgraceful throughout the healthcare debate, yet over 70% of Americans want government healthcare. Even Baucus, Conrad and Nelson fearmongering hasn't moved them one bit. Christ, the public most likely want single payer universal healthcare.
With the pressure on, Franken wasn't exactly a snarky liberal radical during the campaign, so what makes you think he'll be one in the senate with 5 years to establish himself?
As for today's ruling, Minnesota's supreme court have opened up a new can of worms, and they should be fucking ashamed of themselves. They know full well Pawlenty won't sing, Harry Reid will bottle it. And even if he did deat Franken, Cornyn will filibuster. This ruling is just gonna drag this out and create a mess.
Harry Reid and the Dems should applied media pressure Coleman in January. It was obvious what the GOPosaurs gameplan was. Franken should have been seated months ago.
Franken will be a good senator and a relief from some of the pompousness of many. With the diversity of Dem opinion, 60 senators only means that the GOP has to actually offer ideas now instead of threats and "no".
beavis said...
balls explode !!!!
I miss real joe.
June 29, 2009 5:34 PM
I miss Him too.
I also miss Sir Sean Quinn.
Nate,where is the kid ?
PorridgeGun said...
Christ, the public most likely want single payer universal healthcare.
June 30, 2009 4:38 PM
Madre de Dios !!!
You mean Christ from FL not Jesus right ?
:P
PorridgeGun,
Almost everything you said was completely ridiculous, had little/no basis in fact, or was simply incoherent rambling.
I won't dignify any of your incredibly puerile remarks with one of my own.
...
With the diversity of Dem opinion, 60 senators only means that the GOP has to actually offer ideas now instead of threats and "no".
No, this has nothing to do with the GOP. This meams the Dems have universal control of the White House and Senate. It means they now have unequivocal power to pass and execute legislation. It means this country is firmly in Obama and the Dem's hands. It means that everything from here is on their shoulders. It means the "Bush did..." excuses are, more than ever, a thing of the past. And it means that they now have absolutely zero excuses.
"Go ahead and show your true colors...by accusing me of treason...."
?
Get back to me when you're ready to have a reasoned discussion - and one based on what was actually said, not some product of your obviously fevered imagination.
Get back to me when you're ready to have a reasoned discussion - and one based on what was actually said, not some product of your obviously fevered imagination.
I've tried that in the past few weeks only to find that you and most of the others on here are nothing but radical leftwing hacks. See comments from PorridgeGun above for an example.
Maybe I jumped the gun, but based on your responses in other threads, I expected a ridiculous response to my "celebration" of a Franken victory. Should have laid low and waited on you to make the first move, as I'm sure you would have put your foot in your mouth.
You don't fool me. I know you're a mentally handicapped bastard.
Quoting Porridge Gun:
As for today's ruling, Minnesota's supreme court have opened up a new can of worms, and they should be fucking ashamed of themselves. They know full well Pawlenty won't sing, Harry Reid will bottle it. And even if he did deat Franken, Cornyn will filibuster. This ruling is just gonna drag this out and create a mess.
Ahhh, PG....you did manaage to follow the link located in the earlier comment and notice that Pawlenty has already committed to signing the certificate officially making Franken the winner...right??
Box Turtle Coryn can filibuster all he wants....he's not going to get 39 other votes to dance with him on this one....not unless he really wants his party to commit suicide.
I agree with you wholehartedly on everything else you said about the ineffectiveness of the Dems and Obama...but let's allow reality to sink in a bit first before you strike, OK???
Anthony
Congrats to Al Franken on his long-awaited win!! Clown Coleman has done the bidding of Cornyn and his GOP masters in the Senate, and in the process forever lost a chance to be succesful in MN politics ever again.
Franken will be a quick study, an excellent, informed Senator, and an asset to the Democratic Party in their efforts to keep the GOP as a Southern and White splinter Party, which is where they find themselves today.
We will keep taking away their center until all that are left in the GOP are Michelle Bachmann, Jim DeMint, and James Inhofe. Oh, and their Propaganda Minister, Rush Limbaugh.
@Doc,
I like reading Porridge Gun.
let him talk.
@DrWho
And I'm ready for him to do his job too - which will be to do anything and everything to trash the Constitution and run this country into the toilet, which will inevitably lead to a backlash and the election of trustworthy, capable, competent, and skilled conservatives to "right the ship."
It's funny when conservatives say this... have you any idea what happened the last 8 years??
Wellstone6;
You forgot Sarah "lipstick on a pig" Palin!
Quoting Doctor Who:
I've tried that in the past few weeks only to find that you and most of the others on here are nothing but radical leftwing hacks. See comments from PorridgeGun above for an example.
Uhhhh, no, Doc....I'm the radical left-wing "hack" around here....everyone else is just decent principled liberals or devout fans of Nate.
Funny how egotisical wingnut trolls respond when all their saw stories blow up in their collective faces.
This is 538.com, not NewsBusters or WingNut Daily. Franken WON. Deal with it, trolls.
Anthony
It really is time for Franken to be seated. I would hope it is done in as non confrontational a way (from both sides) as possible. But come on people, you guys were the guys parading outside courtrooms with 'Sore Loserman' placards. Have some shame.
Steele can be overheard telling everyone, "This is how we roll baby!"
Doctor Dipshit,
Everything I said regarding President Obama and conservative senate Democrats recent behaviour is spot on. Unless you're a delusional FReeptard fuckwit, you'd know that over 70% of the American public strongly support the option of government healthcare. Don't you read the polls? There's been half a dozen released in the past two weeks making that clear.
And you're the moron who honestly believes the direct result of Sen. Franken is at least two to four congressional and senate seats and four senate seats. WTF!?! From where??? Franken was extremly subdued and cautious during the campaign, and he would have beat Coleman easily if Barkley hadn't been on the ballot. Minnesotans simply had had enough of Norm.
If Cornyn tells him to, Pawlently won't sign, because the backlash from the conservative nutbase would end whatever 2012 ambitions he may have.
Yep, Coleman concedes! I'll take it. I couldn't bear seeing Harry Reid stand alongside Cornyn and Coleman and say, "It's still too lose to call. All the votes must be counted."
President Obama's statement:
"I look forward to working with Senator-Elect Franken to build a new foundation for growth and prosperity by lowering health care costs and investing in the kind of clean energy jobs and industries that will help America lead in the 21st century."
Here's the entire collection of PorridgeGun's hate-filled vitriol:
http://www.backtype.com/url/www.blogger.com%252fprofile%252f11428921748196863288
Just read through a couple of pages and see what you're up against. And see if you can keep from getting nauseated from all of the invective. Reason enough to not engage this sick troll in any sort of discussion.
1. Could the "First!!!1! lolz" commenters kindly head back to 4chan with the other middle schoolers?
2. It's about darn time. Will the Senator from Minnesota please take his seat?
Uh, you're right Anthony. You are very much included in the list of radical nuts. I see you are a depraved soul. And a racist to boot!
MXH
Exactly.
Dr. W is using the Rove tactic of identifying one's own worst characteristics and accusing one's opponent of possessing them.
Ordinarily, "I know you are but what am I?" is just a goofy schoolyard retort. In this case, it makes perfect sense.
If you ever listened to Al's radio show, you know he's not a knee-jerk liberal clone. He's a funny guy who's extremely smart and really tries to be fair.
Now, Al, LET'S HAVE SOME JOKES!
Ahhhh, Doc...Porridge is a regular contributor here; you're the right-wing troll trying to smear him with your own mess. So now you get to dictate to the blog admins here who is/isn't a troll???
And three words about your attempted smack of me: Sticks. And. Stones. Better to be a "depraved" sex-positive socialist Black man than to be an insensitive wingnut fascist Boss Limbaugh fax reader any day of the week.
Turn the page, Slap.
Anthony
First off well done for Coleman stepping aside. I honestly mean that. He's genuinely shown some honor. And I do think with this type of election, when its effectively a statistical tie, its fine to make sure as many votes are counted as possible.
Doctor Who…
Nobody will ever take you seriously when your arguments are fashioned around phrases like these direct quotes—
“sick and twisted”
“And I'm ready for [Franken] to do his job too - which will be to do anything and everything to trash the Constitution and run this country into the toilet”
“Go ahead and let the irony of your brand of sick, twisted hypocrisy sail right over your own head. Your intelligence is less than impressive. Go ahead and prove again that you are among the bottom feeders of society.”
“You don't fool me. I know you're a mentally handicapped bastard.”
“And see if you can keep from getting nauseated from all of the invective. Reason enough to not engage this sick troll in any sort of discussion.”
You write like someone with a 40-inch waist who insists on wearing size 34 underwear. I suspect the reason you can’t present rational conservative arguments is that there aren’t any, so trash talk is your only recourse.
Of course you could always just shut up.
Ahhh...back to the serious matters now: more than likely, Franken's gonna govern probably just a fraction to the right of Wellstone, trying to negotiate the gap between "moderate" and "liberal" just enough to please both Hard Hat Harry and his local constients. Probably not quite the fire-breathing progressive I'd prefer, but more than adequate for the Dem majority.
And a thousand times better than Norm Coleman, too.
The wheels of justice may grind slowly, but ultimately they do grind.
Anthony
You're a real trip, 'Tone. "Sticks and Stones" right back at ya, tough guy.
Better to be a successful white male in favor of free enterprise rather than an ignorant Marxist porn-addicted nigger who wants to drag us all through the mud puddle of oppression and despair because of his own inadequacies.
Sorry. You lose.
Ahhh...back to the serious matters now: more than likely, Franken's gonna govern probably just a fraction to the right of Wellstone, trying to negotiate the gap between "moderate" and "liberal" just enough to please both Hard Hat Harry and his local constients. Probably not quite the fire-breathing progressive I'd prefer, but more than adequate for the Dem majority.
And a thousand times better than Norm Coleman, too.
The wheels of justice may grind slowly, but ultimately they do grind.
Anthony
PorridgeGun,
No reason to talk to or at you anymore. You're a hopeless piece of shit. As far as I'm concerned, you have already shut the fuck up because you are yet to say anything of substance.
And a pleasant day to you too, Doc.
Anthony
Give us a $$ amount, 'Tone, for all of the sucking you've done on the government's tit. Tally up all of the free/reduced school breakfasts ans lunches, all of the welfare, all of the food stamps, and all of the government grants we've paid to you so you can be a janitor at Wendy's and make the federally mandated minimum wage that's about $5/hour above market for that type of job.
Come on. Give us the total cost. We're dying to hear.
You're another shit-talking, Marxist nigger, so I know you've had plenty of handouts. Before you talk any more shit, I want you to tell us all how much money the government has spent on you and you and your family through the years. How much did we pay your whorish mom to pop out another fucking niglet every 15 months? How much, 'Tone? How many free lunches did you get? How many free courses at the community college for you to major in Erotic Drama? How much, 'Tone?
Dr. Who just showed his true colors, bigot to the bone...
I am happy we finally have some smart people in DC, Mr. Franken has a keen intellect and is welcome in any debate
Nate wrote...
But the spectacle of an attempt to filibuster Franken's seating would be intense and would carry plenty of risks and rewards for both sides, and might not be the the sort of thing that the usually risk-averse Reid would want to undertake.
Would Reid be so risk-averse that a united front by the 58 other Democratic Senators (not to mention the White House, DNC, House, etc.) telling him to fight it or lose his job as Senate Majority Leader? Because if the GOOPers want to filibuster, and Reid gives in, not seating the now officially elected Senator Franken, to avoid a fight, I could see him losing his job as the Majority Leader.
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
..And we see yet another Right-wing troll start to sting itself with its own venom like a crazed, impotent centipede.
Squash.
Put you out of your own misery, right-wing fucktard.
It should be duly noted that Nate correctly predicted the outcomes of every one of the 2008 Senate races -- including the three that led to recounts or runoffs.
And he correctly predicted all but one state in the Presidential race.
Not too shabby at all.
Congratulations, Nate!!!
Dr. Who just showed his true colors, bigot to the bone...
Hilarious oversight and a perfect example of why this country is rapidly descending into a cesspool of ignorance, chaos, and a loss of freedom.
A shit-talking, middle-aged black man openly espouses radical eroticism and other depraved sexual behavior as well as socialism - and there's nary a word about it - and I merely call him on it in my own personal rant against such behavior and beliefs while using the racial epithet 'nigger' (which admittedly is a disgusting word that should almost never be used - but this is one exception I'm willing to make) and I'm the one showing my "bigoted true colors."
The man's an avowed Marxist/Stalinst and a sex freak and I'm the problem for saying 'nigger'? Get over yourselves, politically correct America! There are much graver dangers to our freedoms than a few racial slurs.
@Nate: thank you, even if the outcome has caused so much psychic pain to the losers and the advocates of the Party of No(body).
I rejoice in Franken's victory, Juris. The outcome has caused me zero pain.
Having 60 votes means no more excuses. It means another fruitcake gets to have a bully pulpit to yell at America at how wonderful the liberal agenda is.
We'll wait and see how this turns out. Methinks the backlash in 2010 and 2012 will be much to your surprise :)
Again, Wellstone6, I'm amazed at this. 'Tony is an avowed socialist who loves radical and deviant sexual behavior. I call him an inflammatory word and I'm the problem?
Signs of the times, I guess...
Doc
Time to pop back in the Tardis, dude. If you have a point you've wrapped it up in so much hate that only your fellow rabies sufferers would go along.
BTW I don't defend P-gun's schtick [sic], either, despite my political beliefs.
This format attracts crazies but in general 538 is pretty civil.
This format attracts crazies but in general 538 is pretty civil.
I think that's the point I was trying to get at when using invective and racial epithets myself. PorridgeGun and 'Tony drop some pretty radical stuff, and it's all good for the 538 faithful. I drop some 'out there' comments and it's a dog-pile on the old Doc for being a Lush Rimbaugh worshipping villain.
Evil is evil. Left or right. Doesn't matter. This site is infected by it, and the only thing I can surmise by there not being any more denouncement of the behavior is that such depraved behavior is fully endorsed.
But...but...but...
Weren't there a fair number of people here (including some posting in this thread) that were taking Pawlenty and Coleman to task because they (the posters) assumed Coleman would take it to the USSC and Pawlenty wouldn't sign the certificate? What? You mean that didn't happen? It ended at the MNSC? Wow...guess the posters weren't making completely partisan attacks that were based completely on assumption.
In all seriousness, it was kind of funny to watch the posters bash Pawlenty and Coleman for things they didn't do, and actually never did.
vw: claem: People made a claem that P + C would do things that never happened.
Doctor Who…
You are Exhibit A for why the GOP appeals to fewer and fewer people all the time. The Republicans don’t have leaders anymore, just cranks like you, who, as soon as the argument turns against them, can do nothing but spew hate.
Don’t pretend you used “invective and racial slurs” to make a point. You used them because that’s who you are, and apparently we don’t need to scratch very deep to let it out.
The best aspect of 538 is the variety of people who post here to debate various scenarios involving the future of the country. The worst aspect is you.
The batshit insane far right must be drooling and babbling more incoherantly then usual today!
Glad it is over and Minnesota can have its 2 senators.
As for Al Franken I'm glad this ordeal is finally over, but the idea of one party controlling Congress so thoroughly isn't giving me warm fuzzies.
I would agree with you if the GOP had anything of substance to contribute.
They are doing nothing but drooling on themselves and chucking shit on the wall.
There are several factions within the democratic party so no one idiology is going to win out every time and there will be debate among them.
Since Doctor Who thinks that my race, personal sexual proclivities, and my personal politics should be the main topic rather than what is supposed to be the main topic, I believe that I am entitled to a rebuttal here.
Yes, I am a lefty, probably well to the Left of what passes for the center of political debate here. Yes, I am a bit more liberal, even a bit radical, on the subject of sexual expression. Anyone is invited to view my blog and find out for themselves what I say and how I think, and reach their own conclusions, pro, con, or indifferent. I could care less what you think of me or my views, as long as you respect that they are mine and mine alone.
Frankly, I couldn't give a Hoover's Dam full of bat guano what any wingnut thinks of my views or my politics...but when you break out the N-bomb in public discourse, that changes everything. Then it's no longer simply spirited political debate or even even-handed smackdowns; it becomes hate speech.
Notice, Doc, that nowhere in my posts here have I EVER broke out any form of insults about your personal views other than for the general stupidity and lies and usual Limbaugh/O'Reilly regurgitated talking points....yet, you are so free to use neo-Nazi/Ku Klux Klan saw stories about Black people in general to attempt to slam me as a "Stalinist", a "Marxist". and a "porn addict"?!?! Please...try actually reading what I write before you crank that nonsense out of your colon....ahhh, I mean, your mouth.
Of course, I forget that in your twisted mind, anyone who dares to oppose you who's not your kind of right-winger becomes a "Stalinist"/Marxist/Socialist/Liberal/Islamacist/anti-Semitic/illegal alien/homosexual/porn addict....oh, did I leave anything out????
And for the record, dewd, I happen to be a single, childless, 45 year old Black man who has a steady job as a customer service supervisor at a nationally known retail outlet. The only "niglets" that I deal with every day are my nephews and nieces whom I love and adore dearly as real people...but I guess that your racist pompous ass probably can't stand that, either??
The only thing that you are showing with your diatribes is your abject ignorance and total lack of working brain cells, other than the one synapse that the likes of David Duke and Hal Turner or Michael Savage feed to you each day.
Any piling on that you are getting here is entirely on you, Doc Sparky for not knowing how to quit when you are behind.
Now, Doc, kindly take the hint and either get back to the real subject of Coleman v. Franken, or just peddle your shit somewhere else.
Oh..and kindly kiss my Black Stalinist porn addicted ass, too. Or, don't...I could care less.
Anthony
Doctor Who is only the newest incarnation of the hapless Mule Rider.
He thinks changing handles every so often but keeping the same hate-filled ignorant rhetoric will help him.
@Anthony,
Well written...but you don't have to defend yourself against someone who tries to soil the good name of Doctor Who with every post.
wv: homis: homis where the hate is.
@Shane:
You're right, that some posters here jumped the gun. Their distrust of Coleman was somewhat justified, as he'd dragged the process out longer than appropriate; but in IMHO, it wasn't fair to dump on Pawlenty, who'd pretty well avoided getting terribly partisan in this protracted battle.
I trust that even the most partisan Republicans in the Senate won't have the audacity to try a filibuster. It's about Democracy.
As of this post, Doctor Who has fully proven that he is beyond any desire to debate issues civilly or factually, but is only here to spew racism, hate, and general bigotry.
Why do you come here? You claim to hate us, call us evil. And yet here you are with your inability to accept any that are different to you, resorting to racial slurs and baseless accusations based on a man's race.
The only person "Talking shit," is you, sir. What evidence did you have to make any claims about Anthony Kennerson? Then why would you call him a Marxist? Call his behavior "radical eroticism"? Because all you come here to do it hate.
To be honest, I don't know why I've wasted my time with you. I guess the urge to "Feed the trolls," as they say, is too strong sometimes.
This is great that this is finally over, and that Coleman actually found the decency to give up (though he couldn't help but twist the "disenfranchisement" B.S. knife in his statement).
A little disappointed that my fellow Harvard alum Franken doesn't seem to know that "enormity" means "great evil," NOT "really huge." Oh, well...
Last (for now):
Al Franken fully earned his place in the Senate. Today, I'm confident he once again raised a glass (imaginary or no), looked up, and silently said, "This one's for you, Paul!
You know. I go away for a few weeks and come back and there's Mule Humper under another pseudonym or his clone still raging against "marxist niggers."
This is really what the ass-hats think in rural Tennessee. When it comes to a debate, they can't go for more than 30 seconds without screaming about "niggers" or "wet-backs" "ruining this country."
Just another damp tuft of rectal hair on the butt-end of life.
You have to wonder why Norm gave up so easily and why Pawlenty decided to go ahead and sign the certificate.
Obviously it was obvious from the beginning that he had ZERO legal case and the S.Ct. just slapped him down hard with a unanimous verdict.
An 8-0 verdict completely rejecting all of Norm's arguments probably made it harder for either Norm or Pawlenty to go forward, but who really cares what the courts think?
The right wing from the first has been about blocking a liberal senator for as long as possible. That's all it's ever been about. There was NO realistic legal chance of a Norm victory other than convincing the U.S. S.Ct. to pull another Bush v. Gore and throw aside the law once again.
But, their appetite to do that for a mere U.S. Senator was always in question. Throwing aside what few principles you have for a PRESIDENT is one thing. But, saving Norm Coleman from the consequences of his defeat just isn't that important.
Still, they might have dragged this race out for a few more months if they'd been willing to defy public criticism.
Apparently, Norm has better things to do than pour more money into this hopeless battle just to delay things a bit more.
Oh, hold up...that was Mule Rider under a different handle??
Ohhhhh-kay...that explains a lot.
Nice try, Ass-Rider or whomever the hell you are, but you lose again. You were funnier when you were running your buttsecks smack at Nate...this time, you are just plain pathetic.
One word, asshat: Fleshlight.
I'll just leave it at that and let the rest of you use your imagination to decipher that one.
Nexxxxxt!!!!
Anthony
beamman -- go easy on Franken. Though some consider the use of "enormity" as "immense" to be nonstandard, it isn't so black-n-white.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enormity
To quote:
3. greatness of size, scope, extent, or influence; immensity
Enormity has been in frequent and continuous use in the sense "immensity" since the 18th century...
And, finally, congrats to Senator Franken!
On Al Franken-
I honestly see this as a tactical negative for the Democrats.
Now as a matter of political physics Obama should have the votes to enact any law he wants and the Democratic leadershp can pass any legislation they want.
Bur Obama, Pelosi and Reid (now there's a Troika for you!) must still cobble together the votes of what remains a substantial moderate to conservative wing within the party (it is much larger than the moderate to liberal wing of the GOP).
As a positive force the Democrats ran best when they ran right. Bill Clinton is the most sucessful example.
Obama won more in the vein of the throw the rascals out variety. Whatever you think of his present ideology, it is nothing like the ideology (such as it was) Obama during the campaign. It would be difficult to call his an ideological victory and if so, then what kind?
The center will not hold. It is too far to the Left.
Franken is a brilliant poster child for the Democrat Party and the Minnesota Supreme Court decision IS GREAT NEWS FOR - - - JOHN MCCAIN!!!!
The public is already showing signs of doubt concering Obama's policies. Right now much of the angst among the public stems from sticker shock. But as the public begins to percieve the height of the stakes it will begin paying closer attention to the policy debate.
People will look back at the frenetic effort to pass the Cap and Trade bill in the House as "the tell" (Where has Sean been? Have I mised something??) .
1200 pages of what amounts to a tax on carbon, esp as energy, a tax that has to fall disproportionately on the poor, a climate control bill that penalizes clean natural gas while subsidizing dirty coal.
Curious, no?
The spectre of a Senate as much under the thumb of Harry Reid as the House is under Pelosi's is sure to spook the electorate.
The bizzare new legislation that seems to be being passed right over the people's heads, bills that are incomprehensible unless someone is willing to step up and provide a teaching moment, but all we get from BOTH SIDES are talking points, will seem all the more questionable if the economic recovery is as tepid as most of the people in the know think it will be.
At some point the misery and fear attendant on double digit unemployment will break through the guazy haze of love the media feels for Obama and which prevents many of us from feeling the hard times so many in the nation are enduring. Sympathy will turn to fear as the job markets churn and until unemployment falls below 7% and stays there for a while.
Such even mildly favorable conditions are unlikely to be in place by the time of the 2010 midterms. It will be a bloodbath.
Without Obama at the top of the ticket the disaffected segments of the electorate (conservatives, the economically disadvantaged, former Obama voters who are disenchanted by his failure to keep his pledges) will overhwhelm the movement Democrats who can be counted on to come to the polls.
Franken is sure to be among the poster children. What a standard bearer and symbol of the excesses of one party rule: A vulgar, has-been comedian, who loves the limelight and can be counted on to speak and act kooky. Think Barney Frank, but with stage presence. Think David Letterman! Nicely done, Dave! Chris Dood will add Mafia glamour to the whole mix. In order to dilute these votes and voices alone there will be a 10 seat pick up by the GOP in the Senate!
For Obama there will be a clamor for triangulation, to turn rightward as Clinton did and beat them at their own game.
It's an even money bet that Obama can pull off another win based on his charisma alone (and his chutzpah). After all the people bought Bill's crocodile tears for two terms (but he had help from Perot).
Even money for an undivided GOP to beat Obama in 2012. Even money Obama wins.
Would you lay that bet down now?
It might pay 2 - 3 by Election Day 2012. Nice arbitrage there . . . .
petekent01 (on twitter)
"mclever said...
beamman -- go easy on Franken. Though some consider the use of "enormity" as "immense" to be nonstandard, it isn't so black-n-white."
Yeah, well....
It is interesting, though, that if you look "enormity" up on Onelook Dictionaries, every dictionary linked feels the need to have a cautionary sentence about the nuances in the usage. I haven't seen that for any other word.
Finally!
It's about time we had the same Constitutional representation as other Americans.
What I meant to say was that this is a great day for comedians everywhere. And I couldn't be more serious, thank you.
I think it's easy to over estimate the importance of 60 votes. I wonder if moderates like Landrieu or Lincoln for instance would vote for cloture on a bill they don't support, and we've already seen a level of pushback from moderate Democrats. I'm sure that the GOP will talk about 60 votes a lot but I wonder if the reality will match the talk.
I do wonder if Obama isn't blindsiding a lot of his critics on the right. There seems a level were the right is picturing some left wing hell of socialised medicine and environmental fascism. I wonder if the right will look very foolish when the reality doesn't match the rhetoric.
@PeteKent:
Since you didn't post insults or off-topic carpoola, I'll respond to a couple of your points.
I don't agree that Clinton is a very successful example that "the Democrats ran best when they ran right." He "succeeded" in handing control of the House to the Republicans for the first time in 40 years. True, he did balance the budget, with the Republican Congress. Butt mostly, he succeeded in getting re-elected--and not with 50% of the pop vote.
LBJ was most successful when governing from the Left (Medicare, Civil Rights); his classic tragedy came when his governance pandered to the Right (Vietnam). FDR, the most successful Democratic president in history, also governed best from the Left.
Secondly, it's silly to characterize Franken as "A vulgar, has-been comedian, who loves the limelight and can be counted on to speak and act kooky." Have you seen any evidence of this during the long campaign or the recount? I certainly haven't. Rather, I expect him to behave as a respectful and respectable senator. I do hope that he lets his hair down and gets witty once in a while.
It's funny to see Republicans ridiculing Franken for his non-traditional resume, when they've elected and nominated was-been actors like Reagan and Ah-nold and intellectually challenged athletes like Jim Bunning and Lynn Swann.
Stock up on your victory balloons now. You'll know how Jack Kent Cooke felt in 1969.
Matt wrote:
"@Shane:
You're right, that some posters here jumped the gun. Their distrust of Coleman was somewhat justified, as he'd dragged the process out longer than appropriate; but in IMHO, it wasn't fair to dump on Pawlenty, who'd pretty well avoided getting terribly partisan in this protracted battle."
Let's be fair here.
Cornyn said multiple times that the election could be held up for years in court challenges. Those court challenges would have to come from Coleman, and would have to financed by the GOP.
After the election court ruled in Franken's favour, Pawlenty made no public statement that he would sign the election certificate if the MNSC ruled in Franken's favour. That only happened less than two weeks ago, and the statement from Pawlenty was qualified. At no point before 6/30 was it clear that Pawlenty would sign the certificate unless there were specific instructions in the SC's decision to do so.
All Pawlenty had to do was say that he would sign the certificate if Coleman lost. He didn't do that, and you could make an equally strong case that he led Republicans to believe that he would defy the MNSC. It was the only "role" Pawlenty had in the entire affair, and he played it in such a way as to encourage speculation on both sides.
@Cugel,
I see it as the GOP having money problems and them having little chance for big fund-raising for 2010 and 2012.
yeah, Coleman is likely having money problems, but he has already destroyed any future political prospects, so has nothing to lose.
Perhaps the GOP is acting rationally? Stranger things have happened.
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