-- A new poll from the New York Times reports that 72 percent of the public likes the "public option" on health care. This poll is broadly in line with the consensus of previous polling on the subject, although as we warned you yesterday, some of the polling on the public option is a bit schlocky.
The Times' poll's question wording seems quite informative and fair: "Would you favor or oppose the government's offering everyone a government administered health insurance plan like Medicare that would compete with private health insurance plans?". Note the use (twice!) of the term "government", which is less ambiguous and less favorable than the term "public" -- although the insertion of the phrase "like Medicare" probably puts the public option in a somewhat more favorable light.
The NYT's polls have a reputation for having somewhat left-leaning demographics. This is not entirely undeserved -- their samples generally contain somewhat more Democrats and somewhat fewer Republicans than the consensus. (EDIT: Although this particular poll at a 10-point D-R gap, which is pretty typical these days). Nevertheless, even 50 percent of Republicans favored the public option in this poll. If you re-weighted the demographics to put more Republicans in the sample, the public option would still be extremely popular.
The bottom line is that the health care debate is not really being played out in the court of public opinion. If it were, Congress would pass a robust plan with a public option that was funded by raising taxes on cigarettes, booze, and people making over $250,000, and we'd live happily ever after (or not). Rather, this is a behind-the-scenes fight at the committee level, where certain senators who have ample financial incentives to please the insurance industry have a disproportionate amount of control over the process.
I'm generally not one to carp about special interest money -- seeing politics through that lens is often an overly reductive formulation that serves as a catch-all excuse any time Congress does something you don't like. But on something like the public option, which has broad public support and which would probably reduce -- not increase -- the long-run bill to the taxpayers, it is just about the only way to explain what's going on in Washington.
-- Two more Iran links for you. Bern Beber and Alexandra Scacco (who are former students of Andrew Gelman's) have identified further oddities in the distribution of digits. And Daniel Berman (who generously provided provincial-level voting returns to us) along with Ali Ansari and Thomas Rintoul at the University of St. Andrews have a detailed and compelling look at the numbers. Among other things, the St. Andrews boys report that two provinces had greater than 100% turnout. The safest conclusion at this stage is probably that of Walter Mebane, a specialist in election fraud, who says he sees "moderately strong support for a diagnosis that the 2009 election was afflicted by significant fraud."
-- Finally, on a much lighter note, Katie Halper runs the numbers at Comedy Central and finds that Karl Rove and I are a surprisingly good love match. Dinner at The Grocery is on me, Karl.
6.21.2009
Lazy Sunday Linkage: Public Option, Iran, Nate v. Karl Rove
by Nate Silver @ 5:22 PM...see also health care, iran
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Alcohol abuse among troops soars http://tinyurl.com/mjuq27 Do you think the country turning on their mission had anything to do with it?
petekent01 (on twitter)
Nate is absolutely right that the healthcare debate is not occurring in the court of public opinion and there has been far from robust debate about it.
The great mass of citizens who will have to face the consequences are clueless about what may be in store for them.
As Nate discusses below, people are polling and analyzing longevity statistics to see if they reveal anything about the efficacy of socialized medicine against our own present hybrid.
I think not knowing the answers to a whole lot of questions is to call in question as to how fast we should proceed.
We should proceed with a great deal of caution especially at this time when we are nearly broke and our credit rating as a nation is under assault and the number of unemployed is climbing and looking to remain steadily so as we collectively march into the Obama era of slow but “correct” growth economics. Who can say where his “command and control” will lead us? What are lists scientific underpinnings?
Some debate is in order here.
Obama’s promise of slow, measured safe growth will grow stale and sound discordant to a working class populace that is insecure about its work.
The Promise of Slow Growth” There's an election slogan, but I digress.
Mr. Big Ideas Obama is not content with trying to fix the existing broken entitlement programs, be wants to create a few more. Adding trillions to the budget like it were no big deal.
Medicaid and Medicare are seriously underfunded and while cited (esp MCare) as successful socialized medicine, they depend on private sector subsidization and not just from extensive tax revenues but from market dislocations that shift costs on the non-government patient, which is most of us.
There's populism for you!
The real scandal of course is that Medicare reimbursement is so low that the private system is called upon to subsidized it and the even worse funded Medicaid. The problem with the cost of healthcare today is not the uninsured, but the cost of the Federally insured. Eventually the private systems will collapse as unable to compete against the poor paying government plans (who will also losing many willing providers, those who practices cannot afford them to take the loss on the federal patients).
Fewer and fewer patients will be able to find providers will to accept their business.
The private insurance companies will be forced into the business of offering supplementary coverage (for that which the government will not pay). It will be a booming business!
The outcome it seems is that we wind up on some sort of Medicaid style universal coverage where there is theoretical coverage for all conditions/disease states, but the range of choice and the availability of providers is limited.
For the 2/3rds of Americans who are satisfied with their coverage today (including many of the uninsured) along with the tens of millions who work or invest in the medical industry, we have a lot at stake and hope the government gets it right.
Please report, so we can decide.
petekent01 (on twitter)
A PeteKent jewel—
“For the 2/3rds of Americans who are satisfied with their coverage today (including many of the uninsured)…”
You are even more insane than I thought possible. On which astral plane did you come across those uninsured who are satisfied with their “coverage”? Doesn’t that strike you as just a wee bit oxymoronic? (As opposed to the just-plain moronic, where you usually reside…)
Nate,
IF KKKarl Rove takes you up on the offer, PLEASE do not be seated on the bench in front of the restaurant if KKKarl Rove decides to sit down!! From the picture, it appears to be a bit on the (shall we say) elderly side and thus maybe a bit shaky!!
On another note, Bloomberg.com has a report titled "Split Deepens Within Iran Regime as Rafsanjani Family Targeted" and in that report, it states that 'Security forces detained five relatives of former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani'. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aNAwOawlwhUY)
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
P.S., PK - you can go tweet yourself for all I (and I perceive most here at 538.com) care.
The "Comedy Central" link doesn't work.
It's just a link to someone's google mail: "http://mail.google.com/mail/..."
Mike in MD…
I think what is happening with the Rafsanjani family in Iran is of deep significance. He alone apparently might have enough power (and following) to dislodge the current Supreme Leader. Apparently Khamenei is striking hard at his greatest threat; menacing the family frequent brings the recalcitrant back in line.
These next few days should be crucial for Iran. Does Rafsanjani have enough clout to openly oppose Khamenei, and try to engineer his downfall? I put the odds right smack at 50-50.
I can't understand why everyone in being so cautious about calling the election fraud.
Mousavi supposedly got stuffed by 15% among eastern Azeris - his own ethnic group. Karroubi got 5% in Lurestan. That is like Obama getting 5% of the vote in Hawaii or Illinois. Only more so. It's unquestionably fraud.
You have to assume that the great mass of uninsured who are uninsured by choice are by definition satisfied with their coverage.
There are millions of people who are making an economic choice not to buy insurance because they don't see a need for it.
The great mass of people rarely need to see a doctor between the ages of say 20 to 40 and then need ramps up slowly.
The only reason to push universal coverage is not to give people something they want. Indeed by their behavior they have shown their aversion to it.
Instead the reason for universal coverage is to force the healthy into the system to subsidize the sick.
Right now private healthcare has become so expensive because the government refuses to adequately reimburse for Medicaid and Medicare, forcing health care providers to demand more from insurance companies and private pay patients.
The problem with a public option is that if it adopts Medicare reimbursement there will be need for more cost shifting to the private system, making it more and more expensive.
The increased cost that is forecast for the private system is the reason why it is believed that it will ultimately fail with all Americans being forced by cost issue to migrate to the government plan.
At that point then the government will have to foot the whole cost and will need to raise taxes to make up for the short fall formerly made up by the private system and it will need to restrict care so people don't gorge themselves on free medicine.
The dead-end here of course is rationing and a two-tiered system where the Upper Middle Class and the Rich pay premiums to get the care they need and 90% of the public is left with DMV-quality healthcare.
This is the debate we need to have.
petekent01 (on twitter)
I agree, Nate, on the health care debate and the public option. You've basically hit the nail on the head. It seems almost political suicide at this point not to include a public option. Maybe that's why Pelosi and congressional Dems are chomping at the bit to take on corrupt Blue Dogs and spineless Dems in the senate, led by Harry Reid. Obama and his advisers haven't done themselves any favors in the last month, that's for sure, but senate Dems seem determined to drag him down to their pathetic level. I hate it when Billo's right, but Obama's big problem is not GOPosaurs, they just hit an all-time low in a couple of polls last week. It's the likes of Max Baucus, Kent Conrad, Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, Dianne Feinstein and the usual suspects, who seem to be on television a shitload more than Bernie Sanders and Russ Feingold. Why can't these so-called "moderate" Dems be more like Byron Dorgan?
STFU, Pete.
http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/senator-max-baucus-insurance-industry.html
Senator Max Baucus, insurance industry lackey, has had taxpayer financed benefits for most of his adult life.
Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) is one of the most important players in the health care reform debate as the Chair of the Senate Finance Committee. He's screwing it up.
Baucus is also the biggest beneficiary of insurance industry money:
As Sen. Max Baucus has taken the lead on health-reform legislation in the U.S. Senate, he's also become a leader in something else: Campaign money received from health- and insurance-industry interests.
In the past six years, nearly one-fourth of every dime raised by Baucus, D-Mont., and his political-action committee has come from groups and individuals associated with drug companies, insurers, hospitals, medical-supply firms, health-service companies and other health professionals.
These donations total about $3.4 million, or $1,500 a day, every day, from January 2003 through 2008.,
They've got Baucus doing their bidding.
From various sources, including congressional websites, I've figured out that we've been paying for Baucus's benefits for decades. Baucus graduated from law school in 1967. Since then, Baucus has been on government payrolls almost non-stop. He practiced law for a couple years in Montana, but besides that, taxpayers have been funding his health care benefits. And, the federal government has good benefits. Today's Washington Post explains that one good reason to work for the federal government is the "generous" benefits (to which members of Congress have access). On health care, the Post tells us:
The Federal Employee Health Benefits Program offers the widest selection of health-care plans of any U.S. employer. Federal employees also have access to vision and dental plans, life insurance, flexible-spending accounts and long-term care plans.,
That's what Baucus has had access to since he entered Congress over thirty years ago.
This guy has no idea what it's like not to have health insurance or to be tortured by one's insurance company. I'm sure Baucus hasn't spent too much time wondering about co-pays or hitting his maximum for drugs. No.
So, Max Baucus is willing to screw over health care reform and, in turn, and the American people. But, no worries for Max. He's got big-time financial backing from the insurance industry and health care paid by taxpayers.
Pete you're a moron and a right wing shill. No one is buying the BS you are selling.
@Mike in Maryland
Can you refrain from calling Rove KKKarl? It's really childish on the same level of somebody on FreeRepublic calling Obama whatever stupid name they think is clever.
Bryce,
I'll stop typing 'KKKarl Rove', 'GOOPers', and similar after I see that the lunatics on the far right stop their idiocies, such as claiming President Obama doesn't have a valid US birth certificate (or as some states title it, 'Certificate of Live Birth'), stop typing 'Democrat' or 'DemocRAT' when referring to the Democratic Party, etc.
Since the lunatics on the far right haven't ceased, I won't either. If they don't like it, they can do what I just told one of them to do here - they can go tweet themselves.
And if you don't like it, you can also just go tweet yourself.
I've also stated, alternatively, that if and when the owners of this site request that I stop, either directly on the site, or by personal email (and yes, they have my email address, as several times I've communicated with Nate and others by email), then I'll stop.
So far, I've received no such request from the site owners to stop.
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
NATE AND ANDREW'S ASS KICKED IN ANALYSIS! THIS SITE SHOULD BE HUMBLED AND EMBARRASSED!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6550345.ece
How could you guys have been arguing the irrelevant crap you were? How?
Nate and Andrew-
How many time can you get owned on this?
http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/14234_iranelection0609.pdf
538, so yesterday.
Death to PeteKent. There is only one solution.
Me, not you said...
NATE AND ANDREW'S ASS KICKED IN ANALYSIS! THIS SITE SHOULD BE HUMBLED AND EMBARRASSED!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6550345.ece
The headline of the TimesOnLine report is "Claims of vote-rigging in Iran backed by British academics’ analysis".
And that contradicts any such analysis here how?
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
Me, not you said...
Nate and Andrew-
How many time can you get And that contradicts any such analysis here how?
owned on this?
http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/14234_iranelection0609.pdf
And the Executive Summary states:
Working from the province by province breakdowns of the 2009 and 2005 results, released by the Iranian Ministry of Interior, and from the 2006 census as published by the official Statistical Centre of Iran, the following observations about the official data and the debates surrounding it can be made.
· In two Conservative provinces, Mazandaran and Yazd, a turnout of more than 100% was recorded.
· At a provincial level, there is no correlation between the increased turnout, and the swing to Ahmadinejad. This challenges the notion that his victory was due to the massive participation of a previously silent Conservative majority.
· In a third of all provinces, the official results would require that Ahmadinejad took not only all former conservative voters, and all former centrist voters, and all new voters, but also up to 44% of former Reformist voters, despite a decade of conflict between these two groups.
· In 2005, as in 2001 and 1997, conservative candidates, and Ahmadinejad in particular, were markedly unpopular in rural areas. That the countryside always votes conservative is a myth. The claim that this year Ahmadinejad swept the board in more rural provinces flies in the face of these trends.
And that contradicts any such analysis by Nate, Andrew or many of the commenters here how?
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
[quote]
The "Comedy Central" link doesn't work.
It's just a link to someone's google mail: "http://mail.google.com/mail/..."
[/quote]
The actual link is
http://blog.indecisionforever.com/2009/06/18/nate-silver-karl-rove-what-are-the-odds/
I misquoted someone above. The post I made at 7:56 pm should have begun with:
Me, not you said...
Nate and Andrew-
How many time can you get owned on this?
http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/14234_iranelection0609.pdf
I got a little sloppy with the pasting of my comment, then missing it when I thought I was proofing it.
My apologies to everyone but the usual suspects.
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
As a note, over 100% turnout doesn't necessarily indicate voter turnout in Iran -- though at the province level it's a bit odd. Iran has no rules on precinct voting -- if you live in Tabriz, you can show up to a polling place in Mashhad and cast your vote and they'll count it (or perhaps not, in this election). As a result, seeing precincts and districts with over 100% turnout is not uncommon (people voting near work instead of near home, for example, can cause this). At the province level, though, this would probably have to be explained by significant internal migration since the last census (in 2006), or an inherent flaw in the census method itself.
Mike-
Tis true, you can't even cut and paste. This si not surprising given you defense of Nate who on this issue:
First claimed that the their may have no real problem with the vote
then went on to compare a vote that was boycotted by one side to a vote that wasnt
then went on to compare (and be corrected by Sexton) votes where there were clear discrepancies
Andrew then went on to say he saw no reason to believe vote rigging based on an impssible list of 7's
Go think for your self Mikey, Nate has FAILED on this.
He has tried to save himself in the last couple, but people do have memorie, at least real people with real thoughts and the ability to apply beyond a mathematical model to events on the ground
OWNED!
Evan-
Ya, and you have missed the youtube vids showing ballot box stuffing.
Academics, let me know when head is removed from ass.
Iran's Guardian Council just denied that over 170 cities had vote totals over 100% of the eligible voters.. it only happened in 50 cities.
More over this would only account for 3 million votes.
Source:
PressTV Monday June 22, 2009
This is not just a smoking gun... its a torpedo to the heart of Ahmadinejad.
doug White...
Yes, but what does the Iran regime do when caught in a lie? Simply goes on to something else.
Most people around the world are convinced the Iranian election was a fraud. Probably most people inside Iran too, but in the absence of a mechanism to redress wrongs perpetrated by the regime, there are no negative consequences for Ahmadinejad no matter how much mischief has been proved.
Hey everyone! "Me, not you" is actually Mule Rider. Think about it. He's hostile toward Nate, irrational, and is likely to become more and more unhinged as these comments continue. Showing "Me, not you", aka Mule Rider, logic is like showing fire to Frankenstein's Monster.
That having been said, it appears "Me, not you", aka Mule Rider, is working for the Iranian Basij. Perfect career move for a knuckle-dragging thug. . .
Evan, thanks for the info on no precinct voting. However, 50 cities over 100% (and that's only the ones the GC, which is seen as a tool of the establishment, is willing to admit) seems pretty hard to explain. They also didn't address how many of the other 120 asserted cities were at absurdly high turnouts like 100% or so.
Seems like they are trying hard to tamp down the flames but this is not going to do it.
Oh Patty-
I am so far left Mulie can't even see me in his peripheral vision. But, I am also smarter than him and can see Nate's weaknesses. Nate and Andrew both fell for the "Iran election fraud like ours" meme when it was not even a plausible scenario and they missed very fundamental issues because they did not seek knowledge on the ground. Nate and Andrew still seem to think their own personal knowledge of states voting patterns, that they know by heart, does not influence their analysis organically, is somehow irrelevant to the Master God STATS. This horrendous Iran analysis proves them wrong, sadly for me.
Academic analysis not colored by common sense in well, BS.
Mulie? RTFLMAO!
Berkeley-
This stinks like fraud on so many levels it has Nate's numbers brain all atwitter.
Fraud by ballot box stuffing
Fraud by counting votes incorrectly
Fraud at the final arbiter
So much fraud it becomes hard to prove, without common sense.
Expanding on what Doug White said (and he's right!), here's the link:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/98711.htm?sectionid=351020101
Amusingly, PressTV is an Iranian governmental english-language service! And the Guardian Council spokesman said that to REFUTE the charge of the Revolutionary Guard candidate, Mohsen Rezaei, who is the only candidate still tilting at windmills, strike that, pursuing his complaints before the Guardian Council, which is a totally Ahmadi-nejad stacked deck.
Hey PK,
I like my coverage so that puts me in that percentage. I hate the $1600/month my wife and I have to pay to keep it. Moving to another policy is not an option due to an existing condition which is minor to our health but fatal to coverage.
Public option is the only way that there will even be true competition. The only way that private medicine competes is to buy the fanciest, newest, and most expensive devices, even when they duplicate other nearby services. I know. My small (300,000) city has FIVE hospitals competing and duplicating MRI's, operation robots, and everything sparkling and new. Meanwhile all the perfectly good standard equipment has gone to the landfill. This is how medicine competes now.
I have experienced medicine in Belgium. I had a pre-op EKG with an old device that looked like an Apple IIe. It was 15 years old and was perfect for the job. (BTW, The infection rate at that hospital is better than ANY hospital in the US.) They have the fancy stuff, too, but not for any old procedure and not five times in the same city. It is there when it is needed for medicine, not advertising.
I've talked too long. My point is that there isn't competition in commercial medicine and the public option works everywhere it is tried. Our method doesn't.
Pragmatus
You might be right but
The Iranian government is not monolithic. There are factions. The religious leaders have a choice, throw their weight behind Ahmadinejad whose election is a fraud and hunker down for four years or get rid of him and others who think the result was "divine". Thereby, keeping their own status.
Self preservation always wins out.
Situation in Iran not looking good this weekend... friends in Tehran say that the mood apparently defeatist after a day of limited demos met by serious violence.
doug White...
I agree, and that is sort of the outcome I am hoping for, except the best thing would be open opposition to Khamenei from Rafsanjani. I doubt that's going to happen though.
@Nate: I had dinner at "The Grocery" once. It's probably the best restaurant in Brooklyn, and there are quite a few very good ones. (Personally, I'm boycotting "Saul" forever, base on one very very bad experience there, though it's rated as highly in Zagat as "The Grocery".)
If Karl takes you up on that dinner, make him pay.
If I dress up like Karl, will Nate buy me dinner at The Grocery? Their menu is fabulous.
I may not be as exciting a dinner guest as Mr. Rove, and his breasts may be bigger than mine, but at least I can offer the guarantee that I will not start sobbing uncontrollably after my third glass of wine. Unlike little Rovey bear.
This site needs some comment moderation. Or a "hide" or "report spam" button. Seriously. I'll volunteer.
Charlie,are you familiar with the "Greasemonkey" option?
SpoonArcherPalin said...
My small (300,000) city has FIVE hospitals competing and duplicating
In comparison to Baltimore (650,000 population, that looks like it's quite UNDER represented.
- John Hopkins Hospital
- University of Maryland Medical Center
- Maryland General Hospital
- Union Memorial Hospital
- Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical
Harbor Hospital
- Bon Secours Hospital
- Good Samaritan Hospital of Maryland
- Sinai Hospital
- Spring Grove Hospital
- Mercy Medical Center
- Saint Agnes Hospital
- Liberty Medical Center
- University Specialty Hospital
Plus there is the Smith Dennis - United States Veterans Medical Center (conveniently located literally across the street from the UM Med Ctr - makes it easy to share services).
And those are just the hospitals within the city limits. There are probably about as many within 10 miles of, but outside, the city limits, and that many more between 10 and 20 miles outside the city limits.
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
A question on the NYT poll: You say that they tend to skew left but that it still makes no difference in the outcome -- Yet from that poll 48% claimed to have voted for Obama, 25% (!) for McCain and 19% did not vote.
That type of gulf with reality can't seem to be characterized as a "skew". It begs the question - where did they find these Republicans? According to this poll -- something like 50% of all Republicans voted for Obama.
Am I looking at these numbers wrong?
@PeteKent:
"You have to assume that the great mass of uninsured who are uninsured by choice are by definition satisfied with their coverage."
And why do I have to assume that? The figures should be easily available.
Beyond that, I have no idea why you would assume rationality in risk determination. Humans don't do that very well. Read a book or something.
p.s. these comments are pretty terrible. Wow. Seconding moderation or reporting function requests.
f said
'@PeteKent:
"You have to assume that the great mass of uninsured who are uninsured by choice are by definition satisfied with their coverage."
And why do I have to assume that? The figures should be easily available'
--------------------
Actually PK's logic is incredibly suspect. Its like saying someone who had the choice of cutting an arm of to save there life is happy to only have one arm. Many people who have 'chosen' to have no health insurance have decided that not having there home foreclosed or avoiding some other disaster as more important. It doesn't follow that they are happy with their coverage.
The wider point also being that they might be happy with their coverage whilst they are healthy but then be pushed into bankruptcy when they find they have cancer and are left without help and sent huge medical bills.
First of all these comments are complete garbage for the most part.
I am getting really close to just becoming a Republican when I post here. There is almost no balance in the viewpoints at all. (Yes I am annoyed its hard not to when reading all this slanted b.s.)
Now unfortunatly for many here. A large chunk of the uninsured have a reason why they are uninsured. A large majority are young helathy adults who are just starting out and in many cases don't need health insurnace. By the time they reach their laste 20s and find long-term employment many of these people are then covered.
I don't have time to consistently reeducate most of you. Hint you won't find this kind of stuff on huffington post or whatever left wing hack site you are following. You will howeer find plenty of info from google such as this
"the fastest-growing segment of the uninsured are young adults between the ages of 19 and 29, whose combination of low incomes and unstable jobs make it difficult for them to find and afford health insurance. In 2005, nearly 30 percent of people between the ages of 19 and 24 lacked health insurance. In comparison, less than 20 percent of people between the ages of 35 and 44 were uninsured."
"The bottom line is that the health care debate is not really being played out in the court of public opinion."
Well, it appears to be playing out in the court of INFORMED opinion. One of the problems with the polls is that they do not include any prices for these coverage options. You saw they Dems scramble when their plan, without an expansive public option, was scored at $1.6 trillion.
Ask people if they favor a public option assuming there will need to be huge tax increases to pay for it.
People who say "yes" to public option without being presented with a price are not necessarily naive. If you ask me "would you like universal care, if it were free?" I would say of course. Ask me if I want to pay for another massive government program, and you might get a different answer.
Interestingly, the best macro statistics on the US health care system relative to other countries, like cancer survival and hip replacements, are for PEOPLE ON MEDICARE!
That's right, the United States does government-provided medical insurance better than other countries. When Repubs, desperate for good statistics, say "You can get a hip replacement twice as fast in the US as Canada", they're praising U.S. government health insurance. It works beautifully.
Hence the public insurance option, which everyone should support.
PeteKent is tripping in two ways.
First, he talks about private "subsidies" for Medicare. This is nonsense: if it were true, the incentive would be for providers to turn down Medicare patients, which is just not happening. We get faster service in this country than Canada (and Britain and many other countries) because doctors get paid plenty for Medicare services.
Second, he talks about 20-40 year olds "not needing" medical insurance. Right, until they show up in emergency rooms with malignant tumors or severe diabetes or other diseases whose prevention would have cost a tenth of their cures.
PeteKent needs to get a grip. Go Obama with the public option for better medical care at lower cost!
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