Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty has thus far refused to sign an election certificate which would verify Al Franken as the winner of that state's Senate contest last November. For the time being, Pawlenty remains on reasonably firm ground, with Norm Coleman having appealed an election panel's ruling that declared Franken the winner to the state Supreme Court, a process which will take until at least June to resolve. With Republicans, however, seemingly being increasingly inclined to wait out a Coleman appeal not just to the state Supreme Court, but also to the U.S. Supreme Court, Pawlenty may face conflicts between what's best for the Republicans, and what's best for his own political future.
Arguably, in fact, the Franken affair is already impairing Pawlenty's political fortunes. According to polling from SurveyUSA, Pawlenty's popularity has suffered significantly since the November election, and he now has a net-negative approval rating, with 50 percent of Minnesotans disapproving of his performance and 46 percent approving. The Star Tribune has also found Pawlenty's approval to have declined to 48 percent -- against 36 percent disapproving -- the lowest figure it has tested, while polling from Public Policy Polling last month found just 46 percent approving of Pawlenty's performance (against 40 percent disapproval) and that some three-fifths of Minnesotans think he should certify Franken.
It is hard to know whether the decline in Pawlenty's approval is owing to the results of the Senate contest itself. Minnesota, like most states, is currently facing a budget crisis, and this is a rough time for governors in general.
What seems reasonably clear, however, is that Pawlenty does not have a whole heck of a lot of political capital to spare. It is intrinsically difficult to be a Republican in Minnesota, and his re-election bid in 2010 may already be in danger. If he is seen as dragging out the contest and carrying water for the national Republicans once the state Supreme Court rules, he may get himself in even more trouble.
One can imagine that Republicans are trying to placate Pawlenty through vague promises of support for his much-rumored Presidential aspirations in 2012. But is hard to know how credible such promises might be. Pawlenty lacks both the name-brand and the institutional infrastructure of candidates like Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee, and he is certainly unlikely to become the Republican nominee if he loses Minnesota's governorship in 2010. Moreover, Pawlenty was already "used" by the national Republicans at least once -- back in August when he was the decoy for the rollout of Palin as their VP selection.
There is another way, of course, for the Republicans to prevent Franken from being seated: they can try and filibuster him. But then it would be John Cornyn and Mitch McConnell's hides on the line, and not Pawlenty's. The whole thing is increasingly starting to resemble the Coen brothers film Fargo, with Pawlenty and Cornyn playing Carl Schowalter and Gaear Grimsrud to Coleman's Jerry Lundegaard.
5.05.2009
Is T-Paw Taking One for the Team?
by Nate Silver @ 2:03 PM
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112 comments
Best accompanying pic. Ever.
2nd!
What makes this mess particularly intriguing is that Pawlenty was going to run for this senate seat in 2002 against Paul Wellstone. He was ready to announce until a phone call from Dick Cheney helped Timmy "change his mind." He was assured that the GOP would have his back in the future.
And then again there was the near promise of being McCain's VP before SP made the scene.
It seems that TPaw - ever the loyal lap dog - is being asked to take another one for the team. Sad, really.
Nate can we get some 2009/2010 Governor rankings similar to your Senate ones? Thanks.
Hey Nate,
Would it be worth comparing the standings of other governors who have economically similar (or dis-similar?) states?
-jeff
From where I sit, in Minneapolis, I don't think Pawlenty will hold out once the MN supreme court rules in Franken's favor. You cited the strib poll a few weeks back, a Coleman decision to appeal to federal court would be hugelu unpopular here and a refusal by Pawlenty would be even worse.
Also I would assume (not being an election lawyer) that if Pawlenty refused the Mn supreme court would order him to sign the certificate.
I think this will be over in June.
I have a feeling that, should Coleman decide to appeal the MN Supreme Court's ruling to the US Supreme Court, that the SCOTUS will decide not to take the case.
I came to this conclusion when Justice Souter announced his retirement right on the heels of Specter's party switch. I think Souter knows the Dems will have 60 votes when his replacement is up for confirmation, and that is what he wanted. And he would likely be in a position to know how his fellow Justices felt about taking on the Coleman appeal.
If SCOTUS does not take the case, then there is no obstacle to seating Franken, and Pawlenty will have no choice but to sign the certificate.
I clicked on your link there to the Freerepublic and was reading some of the comments and they were talking about whether it would be Palin or Pawlenty, and one guy, comment 40, say about Sarah Palin:
"I actually love her for her mind...the rest is just a bonus."
That made my day
Assuming Coleman loses his appeal wouldn`t Pawlenty be forced to sign because the court would be saying that Coleman received the most votes and is the winner.
Seems like if he defied the court and didn`t sign he could be impeached for not performing his duty as governor.
If he hopes to have a political future he would have to sign the certificate IMO.
Personally I think that Pawlenty should show some guts now and simply say Minnesota has waited long enough to be fully represented in the Senate. I guess there is nothing wrong with waiting for the MN supreme court to pass down its judgement, but after that its time.
And never ever take any sh*t from GOPers about Sore-Loserman EVER EVER again.
*thinks* really must watch Fargo again sometime soon.
If the roles were reversed, do you think this story would be front and center every day, how Democrats are keeping a Republican from being seated, or would the Republicans just sit around and let the Democrats silently fight this?
No question about it, Pawlenty is risking political life and limb for a sinking ship. I might just sign that thing if I was Pawlenty. After all, it's not like Coleman still can't appeal. He will just do it with Franken seated as per the wishes of Minnesota citizens.
http://democratictribune.com
In case you all didn't see this yet, Ridge is a resident of Maryland. How funny is that. I don't know if that changes anything though as I'm not familiar with PA laws.
Pawlenty isn't paying for this with his own political capital so much as with the general welfare of every citizen in Minnesota, who has been shortchanged on representation and constituent services for the past four months. I hope he is not so naive as to believe that he has any future in national politics, as this intransigence affecting governance for the sake of party power is going to alienate every last independent voter from any ticket that he is a member of.
wv blume: too easy, except I wouldn't even compare his antics to an emo twelve-year old girl.
Pawlenty very well might not run for re-election, which changes the dynamics of the equation considerably because he presumably would no longer care about public opinion.
The MNSC could very well rule in Franken's favour, but not order Pawlenty to sign the certificate. It would be odd, but it could happen.
Pawlenty could also defy the MNSC if it did order him to sign the certificate, or Coleman could obtain a stay from a federal judge. It is clear that Coleman has plans to go forward with a series of federal suits (and appeals) which could end up in the SCOTUS, and which could be dragged out for years.
Pawlenty's support is soft here in MN. He is not generally viewed as partisan, but rather as a "nice guy". Once that image is shattered, it would essentially leave only the roughly 30% of hard-core Republican supporters on his side. But if he did not intend to seek re-election, he might choose to go out as a "hero" to his Party.
I would be cautious about making assumptions that Pawlenty would be inclined to make rational decisions involving his political future. He is heavily influenced by the national Party figures; in their thrall, nearly. And those figures seem uniformly to be in "Alamo" mode.
I think what is worse for Pawlenty's approval ratings is the current state of the Minnesota budget and it's massive deficit. So far he has been unwilling to negotiate on quite a few things. He'll see us through another government shutdown before he raises revenue.
Pawlenty is mono-maniacal in his "no new tax" crap. But he's very sneaky too. He won't raise state taxes, but he will force local governments to raise revenue some other way. He also will raise "user fees", not taxes.
The fact that he hasn't unequivocally said he will sign an election certificate when MNSC orders him to just shows what a weasel he is.
Pawlenty as a national political figure is absurd. He's a rube, not as rube-like as Sarah Palin, but he's still a rube. He has no charisma (I will grant Palin charisma) and he's boring to watch. Shit, at least Jesse Ventura and Rudy Perpich were fun to watch, you never knew what they hell they were going to say.
What happened to the other contributors on the website? The last ten posts or so are by Nate.
Pawlenty is definitely stuck between a rock and a hard place here, and may find that he gets no reward even if he does take one for the team.
I think he may be considering not running for re-election to avoid going into 2012 with the embarrassment of a 2010 defeat on his hands.
http://tobwot.wordpress.com/2010-elections/
The key is not whether the Republicans decide to appeal to the federal courts, but whether the court grants a stay. Since their only goal is delay, if the federal courts don't prevent Franken from being seated, any federal appeals would just be a political sideshow, not a serious matter.
Tokar said...
Nate can we get some 2009/2010 Governor rankings similar to your Senate ones? Thanks.
YEAH!
@Billy: Nate has always written more than 90% of the articles on this site.
FWIW most local pundits don't think Pawlenty will run for re-election. A loss in 2010 would kill any presidential hopes T-Paw has (no matter how slight).
BTW I think Pawlenty's falling approval ratings have more to do with the current state budget mess than the Franken/Coleman contest.
If this goes past the MNSC, i.e. Coleman files a federal appeal, Pawlenty won't sign the election certificate.
It is clear what the strategy of the national GOP is, and Pawlenty does not have the huevos to buck the Party.
My money says MNSC will rule that Franken won the election, the federal appeals court will refuse to get involved, but SCOTUS will get involved.
I need only remind everyone what all the pundits said when the appeals court turned down review of Bush v. Gore and then the case headed for the Supremes. All readings of law and case precedent said that SCOTUS never involved itself in elections because they were a matter for the states to decide. I heard no voice anywhere opining that SCOTUS would take the case--and look what happened.
There are four right-wingers on the court, none of whom give a rat's ass about the Constitution or the country if an action of theirs can benefit the GOP.
The ante was too high for this race. Pawlenty can't sign the certificate without looking like an "appeaser" to his base. After all, don't they say that all close elections stolen by Democrats, ACORN and George Soros.... Isn't Al Franken a left-wing caricature....
Pawlenty needs to appeal to his base to have any chances in the primary. On the downside, he'll lose the moderates of his homestate if he doesn't sign the certificate. It's really a lose-lose situation Pawlenty finds himself in.
Ha! A funny thing happened on the way thru the fishing dept at the Rogers Mn Cabelas store yesterday.... I literally bumped into Norm. He was there all by himself looking like a sad little puppy. I made small talk about fishing with him instead of politics (because the other guy I was with is a hard-line Repub and he was driving, and I wanted a ride home), and he said he was picking up some stuff and heading to his cabin. I thought about asking if he'd be selling it anytime soon to pay lawyer's fees, but didn't. Just before we left, my buddy leaned over an whispered something to the effect that he's still pulling for him and I heard Norm reply 'It's not over yet'. I chuckled all the way home.
A fact you conveniently forgot but I'll make:
There are four left-wingers on the court, none of whom give a rat's ass about the Constitution or the country if an action of theirs can benefit the Democratic Party.
How many members of the Supreme Court were appointed by a Democratic president? I'll give you a hint, it less then 4.
I have long thought Pawlenty will skip the 2010 race to avoid any possibility of a defeat (as he nearly had in 2006) spend a few years making private sector $$$$ and look at trying to unseat Franken in 2014 and jump right into the 2016 Presidential with no voting record to speak of and years of fundraising opportunties. The 2014 race would give him a chance to work out his fundraising mechanics and 6 years to let his quite ruthless and weak governance of Mn fade from the collective memory.
That doesn't make a fucking shit, Nathan. That's like saying, "How many people voted for the Republican candidate in 2000? I'll give you a hint, it's fewer than the Democratic candidate."
It makes no fucking difference. Bush was president on Jan 20, 2001 and not Gore because we have an electoral college and not a popular vote.
And we have 4 hard lefties who would wipe their ass with the Constitution if it benefitted liberals and Dems, regardless of who appointed them, because people have independent minds and are not sworn to one party's ideology because they are responsible for putting them on the Court.
Yes, Bush I nominated Souter. So fucking what?
I'll give another example. Arlen Specter was elected as a Republican but defected OWN HIS OWN to the Democratic ticket.
How you're elected or nominated doesn't matter. Get a clue, moonbat.
Again, FUCK you, Assthan.
Proof that fivethirtyeight.com is slowly becoming irrelevant.
Fivethirtyeight.com is Full of Douchebags
Video of Nate Silver going down on another male. Homo fellatio!
Statler N Waldorf Getting Fucked Anally While Masturbating to Keith Olbermann
Foghorn:
Your last post causes me to wonder whether it makes much sense to address you. But the fact is, you don't know what the result of a statewide recount in Florida, as ordered by the Florida Supreme Court, would have been, and the arbitrary, bullshit decision of the US Supreme Court to prevent such a comprehensive recount was what caused GW to be essentially guaranteed to win Florida's electoral votes, and therefore, the election.
Your suggestion that anyone currently on the Supreme Court is "hard left" is hilarious! Are any of them as liberal/libertarian as William O. Douglas, Thurgood Marshall, or William Brennan? There hasn't been a true liberal on the court since Marshall and Brennan have been gone. Not even Blackmun was nearly as liberal as those two, over the course of his career. By contrast, there are four current members of the Supreme Court who are in some ways further to the right than former Chief Justice Rehnquist, was clearly to the right of every other member of the Burger Court.
wv: reasesse - as in, you should reasesse your remarks on the Supreme Court and be more aware of its history.
Oh, more posts by Foghorn. Must be Mule Rider in an alias. Buy some penis-enlarging crap and fuck off.
Pragmatus said...
"If this goes past the MNSC, i.e. Coleman files a federal appeal, Pawlenty won't sign the election certificate."
Given you can't get actual facts correct, why should your speculation be taken with more than a grain of salt? Seems like you like to bash Republicans with things you make up, whether they fly in direct opposition to actual facts or if they're just wild guesses
Your suggestion that anyone currently on the Supreme Court is "hard left" is hilarious!
Never said that, dipshit! I said that just because a Rep did the nominating doesn't mean the Justice will be conservative or in the tank for the GOP. I said that there were 4 - FOUR! - not "anyone"!
There hasn't been a true liberal on the court since Marshall and Brennan have been gone.Fuck you! That tells me all I need to know. Maybe not radical activist nutcases, but Stephens, Breyer, Souter, and Ginsburg are, in fact, liberal. You don't have to have a social philosophy as hard left as Noam Chomsky to be considered "liberal."
By contrast, there are four current members of the Supreme Court who are in some ways further to the right than former Chief Justice Rehnquist, was clearly to the right of every other member of the Burger Court.Just your tired opinion, assclown. That's all speculative and subjective.
Oh, more posts by Foghorn. Must be Mule Rider in an alias. Buy some penis-enlarging crap and fuck off.You don't tell me to "fuck off" asshole, and you damn sure better not call me no fucking farm animal! You have no more right to be on here spewing shit than me, and it looks like you're at an intelligence level that should have you somewhere on the Sesame Street blogs.
now that phoney democrat arlen has declared norm as the rightful winner can pawlenty be far behind?
Once again, the merits of Greasemonkey are clear.
trollList[3] = 'Foghorn Stiffy';
"Never said that, dipshit!"
Fuck you. I don't read posts that start that way.
Fuck you.
And I don't tolerate posts that start that way. You lied. Plain. And. Simple. I didn't say what you said I did. Typical radical leftwing liar. Trying to twist reality to fit your warped world view.
Reality and facts have a conservative bias. Get that through your fucking head, Nimrod.
I'd run if I were you too, fucknuts. I called you out for lying, pointed it out, and you run scared saying you "don't read" posts that "start that way."
I fucking obliterated your dumb ass, so you just best go lick your fucking wounds and try and heal.
*yawn*
Hahaha! Foggy Stiffy is funny. He's got you dumb libs on the run. I'll join in on the fun!
Michael, you must be some kind of communist crybaby. Stop with the douchebaggery and give us something intelligent to chew on.
The Religious Left, you must be a scared ass punk too. What, you gotta hide from anyone who comes on here and challenges you to think outside of this liberal echo-chamber box? Guess you're just another worthless sack of shit.
And EmonOkari, if you're so bored, get the fuck outta here. Nobody asked you to participate. You must be another scared, dumb lib.
Hello, I am a representative of the Norwegian Cultural Preservation Committee. We recently began leveraging royalty fees on those who troll. As you may know, Trolls are a part of traditional cultures touched by the Norwegian culture. In order to ensure proper trolling, we request that you return under your bridge and await nightfall, or at the very least an overcast day.
Send in the sock puppet clowns!
*clean-up on Aisle 1*
Okay, all you worthless bastards can just calm the fuck down. Quit trying to tarnish my site. I'm reporting you troublemakers to the FBI!
My instincts tell me Mule Rider is behind this. He's the fucking bane of my existence!
The comments section reminds me of the game "whack a shark" where the little sharks pop out of a hole and you have to hit them with a cloth hammer and you get a prize. It seems like whenever the comments are finally troll-free some crazy with a homo-erotic fixation on Nate and other posters pops up.
Personally Mr. Stiffy, your name is an insult to a very funny cartoon character and may I suggest you take a Thorazine and fuck the hell off. Pardon my language everyone else, but I am just tired of weenies like this stiffy guy marring an interesting debate.
Now on to business:
I think Pawlenty is in a rough position. I feel a little bad for him. He really is stuck between Scylla and Charybdis. I think he signs the certificate when MNSC reaches its decision and orders him to. He will just say that he was bound by the laws of Minnesota so he had to go against his personal wishes.
I wonder how Pawlenty feels about Normie? I wonder if they were close before? Because down there somewhere, Pawlenty must have some resentment against Ex-Senator Coleman for potentially derailing his career.
You never know. Pawlenty could sign the certificate and the Republican outrage could drive him to flip to Dem too.
I may wind up just shutting down www.fivethirtyeight.com.
It just isn't worth it to have my work and this site ruined by a bunch of cowards and thugs. For now, I must concede defeat.
Jen: He really is stuck between Scylla and Charybdis.Somehow, I read that as "...chlamydia and syphilis." Take that as you will.
It was my understanding that Norm was fairly persona non grata in Minnesota anyway - after all, didn't Mondale come close to kicking his ass in a Republican-ascendant year after he hopped in the race when Wellstone died? And wasn't he considered kind of a weasel anyway?
As for this year: I really want to know, and I don't think I've gotten an answer to this - was Barkley on Franken's left, Franken's right (but closer to Franken), Coleman's left (but still closer to Coleman), or Coleman's right? (With the first two options, Barkley would be pulling off mostly voters who may have otherwise gone for Stuart Smalley. With the latter two, of course, they would have gone to that guy who lost to a pro wrestler and a comedian.) Or would it even have mattered?
troll is too nice a word for mule rider and his "friends".
sewer slime comes to mind.
if pawlenty flips and becomes another spector-the idea makes me think of sewer slime.
at first i enjoyed the MN recount but this is ridiculous. if i saw normie at a store i would not resist telling him he is a disgrace.
btw-friends dont let friends hang out with republicans (just kidding)
i think it is nice that some democrats take pity on the intellectually challenged republicans out there.
I don't really know him other than Limbaugh (or a proxy?) has tore into him on occasion for compromising. But is Pawlenty really anywhere within "party flip" territory? Specter was, sure. Maybe Snowe and Collins, though I think they are more a stretch. But by the time it gets to drumming Pawlenty out I can't see there being much of anyone remaining in the GOP.
@Nate; see above the Norwegian troll post (which was rather awesome) and laff at the losers and get on doing the GREAT work we all (sane readers) admire you so much for.
Nate… Looks like it might be time to reinstall the comments-filter.
Why is that every right-winger who airs an opinion here can’t refrain from saturating his comments with vulgarisms and threats? Their ability to think and reason doesn’t seem to go very deep. Once anyone rebuts a GOOPer claim then the shits, fucks and pisses start flying.
What do you think that says about right-wing ideology? And it’s not me asking—it’s the people who go to the polls. If you ever wonder why conservatism is going in the tank—don’t. The reasons are spelled out in this thread, every last shit-fuck-pissin’ one of them.
;o)
Nate: as David said above, keep on truckin'. You've got a great thing here, FiveThirtyEight is far too good to throw away because a small cadre of miserable pricks want to take the shine off it.
Also, the mental image generated by the phrase 'a small cadre of miserable pricks' is rather comical, if I do say so myself.
The value of the website is not in the comments. Keep up the work, Nate.
Argh! I forgot to attribute the Norwegian Troll comment - apologies to 'ellfin' at LiveJournal, its actual author. My total bad.
I'd also like to add my voice to those in favor of Nate ignoring the idiots and continuing to inform and educate the 99% of us who aren't assholes.
For the other 1%, I suggest you join Michelle Bachmann's little ragtag army of hysterical lunatics, pledge allegiance to Rush Limbaugh and move to rightwingnuthouse.com (it exists, I've been there).
I seriously doubt the posts in this comments section attributed to "Nate Silver" were written by him.
It is very easy to sign in as anybody on this site.
Pragmatus said...
Nate… Looks like it might be time to reinstall the comments-filter.
Why is that every right-winger who airs an opinion here can’t refrain from saturating his comments with vulgarisms and threats? Their ability to think and reason doesn’t seem to go very deep. Once anyone rebuts a GOOPer claim then the shits, fucks and pisses start flying.
And when someone rebuts your claims with facts to back them up, you just run away. That is better than the insults and vulgarity though, I'll give you that :)
I have my doubts if "nate silver" is indeed our esteemed Nate; but my sentiments and observations are relevant all the same
If we take this analogy further, Cornyn will end up pushing Pawlenty into a wood chipper..
Politically, this may well be the effective outcome.
David... Good point, and I agree.
Shane... Cute little smiley there. My take on you is that you are something of a moderate, so it wasn't you I was thinking of in my earlier complaint.
I would argue against characterizing me as "running away"--some points are just not worth niggling about. An obsession with minutiae is what leads to, oh, say, such foolishness as the Clinton Impeachment. I will stand behind the gist of everything I write, while accepting that I am among the least perfect of humans.
:o)
trollList[4] = 'Long Dong Silver';
i-nightblade said "Somehow, I read that as "...chlamydia and syphilis." Take that as you will." That would probably be a worse place to be in between. :)
David said "I have my doubts if "nate silver" is indeed our esteemed Nate". Your doubts are correct. Nate's blogger profile is not private and this "Nate Silver" has a private profile.
My word verification is bless. Is this a sign from God? Or can the computer tell when I have to sneeze.
As if Nate would ever pack it in due to closeted little trolls like that... please.
By the way, boys, we all know what your inevitable resort to gay slurs really means. In the future, please get your kicks down at your local bus station washroom rather than here. Thanks bunches.
Nate,
Long time lurker, no time commenter. I hope you aren't serious about ending 538 because of a couple jackasses. Maybe it's worth shutting down comments, but not ending your contributions.
As we say here in Minnesota,
"You think you've got problems - we've got Pawlenty!"
@ mob
now that phoney democrat arlen has declared norm as the rightful winner can pawlenty be far behind?I read Deborah Solomon's interview page every week.Quite often the short questions and answers are in a joking bantering vein.I strongly suspect that Specter's answer was tongue-in-cheek.
@ Pragmatus
I don't think SCOTUS will take Coleman's appeal.The difference between 2002 and now is that the Bush.Gore contest was a national one while Franken-Coleman concerns only one state.
Also,SCOTUS' decision in 2000 was simply "stop the counting." A similar decision now would favor Franken.
A final thought.Should SCOTUS accept the appeal there is a good chance that,because of the SCOTUS three month summer recess,the appeal won't be heard until October.What a farce!
As a Minnesotan and someone who's been following this closely, I predict the following:
1) Coleman gets spanked by the MNSC. The 3-judge panel pretty much obliterated his arguments, and only the true wackjob righties now believe he has even a ghost of a chance.
2) Pawlenty will stall as long as possible, to look like a good team player/someone who's staying out of the fray, but will ultimately sign the certificate.
3) Pawlenty may or may not run for a 3rd term. But if he does, he'll probably win. The man is evil, but he has the gift of making his hardcore conservative views sound palatable to otherwise liberal Minnesotans. Plus the dems who have thrown their hats in the ring so far aren't exactly rock stars. Solid, smart, etc, but not too thrilling.
If Pawlenty doesn't certify Franken, it'll be a Katherine Harris thing all over again (remember her from Florida?) She drank the Republican KoolAid for the Bush team...and the voters booted her butt right out as soon as they had the chance.
GeorgeQPublic: "republican KoolAid?" Koolaid sounds like a liberal drink. The GOP's drink should be like....prune juice or something.
TPaw's two elections have been examples on how the DFL can absolutely choke down the stretch in elections that should be theirs for the taking.
Normie wasn't going to beat Paul Wellstone prior to the plane crash. After the crash, the DFL was set to sweep the election on sympathy alone. At least until someone forgot to vet Rick Kahn's eulogy of Paul Wellstone. The electorate turned hard on anyone with D next to their names, and swept Coleman and Pawlenty into their current spots.
In 2006, TPaw was in as much electoral trouble as a sitting governor could be in, thanks to a whole spread of issues. Mike Hatch had him dead in the water until the final weekend of the campaign. During an outstate TV interview, Judy Dutcher, Mike Hatch's running mate, forgot what E85 was. Enough farmers ran away from Hatch to leave Minnesota stuck with TPaw for four more years.
The Minnesota DFL hasn't won a governor election since Rudy Perpich did it in 1986, and even that was a rematch with Al Quie that he lost in 1982. Their list of candidates since Perpich has hardly been inspiring. John Marty, Skip Humphrey, and Roger Moe? Hatch was the only good one of the lot.
Complicating things is the Independence Party, who will pull 6-10% of the vote regardless of who is on the ballot with their name. Last fall, El Tinklenberg had the IP's endorsement for MN-6 against Michelle Bachmann. However, in MN, you can't multiple party endorsements on the ballot. Some guy named Bob Anderson files for the seat under the IP banner, gets 10% of the vote, and screws MN-6 out of decent representation in the House.
For the people who think THE "Nate Silver" wrote those comments above - hey, did you know the word gullible isn't in the dictionary?
Franken has earned the right to make jokes about republicans for the rest of his life. His file should be bulging by now.
The frothing bozos who attempt to represent the right on this site offer ample evidence of the insubstantiality of their position. On the one hand, it's encouraging to see how limited their repertoire is, but once you get it, you've got it. After that, as Dwight puts it, it's cleanup on aisle one.
I do not mean to suggest that everyone who argues from the right is a frothing bozo. Far from it.
But you fb's know who you are.
I feel like Franken is really missing the opportunity to be applying political pressure here. Why isn't he making this a higher profile issue? This is ostensibly in the courts, but clearly involved other political actors, and Franken just looks weak when he doesn't fight harder to get seated sooner.
It could backfire for Franken to do that--after all, it's pretty clear in MN Law what the process is.
Right now it seems Coleman (and to a lesser extent, for some reason Pawlenty) are getting the heat from the populace. If he argues for Coleman to get out/give up, he probably looks worse than Coleman did when on election night he said Franken should give up. Personally, I'd see him in a worse light than that, since (I'm assuming here) Coleman's comment wasn't thought out, and at the end of a long day.
Minimally he injects himself a lot more directly in something that can tarnish him via his association with it. And, if what Nate wrote was correct, that it's Coleman's last hope to remain in the political arena, isn't really going to speed things up anyway.
I agree that Franken should just let the process happen right now. IMHO, the lameness of Coleman's claim at this point is so apparent that for Franken to speak other than through his attorneys seems gratuitous.
Why isn't there any thread moderation which keeps the brattish trolls and Nate impersonators off the site?
Isn't this more serious for the GoP
than your commentary suggests?
Minnesota has been moving slowly but surely rightwards. It is one of the very few states that is exception(s) West Virginia. The Franken-Coleman dispute could alienate the moderate and Independent voters
which the Mn Reps need to build their base? Is this a wise strategy for a party which held its convention in The Twin Cities?
Comments gratefully received from the management et al.
Pragmatus said:
"Why is that every right-winger who airs an opinion here can’t refrain from saturating his comments with vulgarisms and threats? Their ability to think and reason doesn’t seem to go very deep. Once anyone rebuts a GOOPer claim then the sh*ts, f*cks and pisses start flying."We're not all like that. These are just a couple of idiots trying to stir everyone up.
Charles
Goes along with the bad proofreading. Seems like something Nate wouldn't want to have to do, for obvious reasons, something he's reluctant to hire somebody to do, and a generally unpleasant and thankless job.
The interesting band-aid solution is a do it yourself commenter blocker that some readers use, but it means that new visitors have to wade through whatever loads of unprocessed psychic crap happens to be here before they decide whom to block. And Nate doesn't promote the blocker.
Also, whoever might be blocking annoying commenters (on Nate's behalf) is taking on the karmic burden of thwarting their tortured attempts at communicating to an obviously hostile world of Obamatons, Pelosiraptors, Hairy Reedfish and the like.
On the one hand, I think that there's no reason the commenters on this site should use language that's significantly different in style than Nate himself. We're commenting on an article he wrote on a site he maintains.
On the other hand, no form of language in and of itself bothers me as long as it's in the service of a point of some sort. Ranting personal attacks, racist rhetoric and sexual insults are out of place, IMHO, but it's still Nate's call.
Pawlenty may not run for a third term? I don't know if the state can survive the rest of his term. He has set us back decades with his hardline budget strangulation
By the way, boys, we all know what your inevitable resort to gay slurs really means. In the future, please get your kicks down at your local bus station washroom rather than here.They all just have really wide stances, honest.
I think Franken has the right idea about not making too much public fuss and letting the legal battle work itself out. He loses nothing by playing it strictly by the book, whereas any undue public carping will make him look like, well, Coleman.
I kind of hate to do this but....
[insert generic gay bashing slogan here] said
Proof that fivethirtyeight.com is slowly becoming irrelevant.
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Actually the graph you posted to shows that 538.com is doing pretty well at the moment. Given the subject matter of the site, a ballooning of interest before and around the election is not at all surprising, and a subsequent drop is not surprising, but since then the site has settled to a number of visits better than September 08. Thats a pretty good figure I would imagine.
Al Franken is keeping busy while he waits for his Senate seat. He’s the comedy writer who's been supplying all of Michele Bachmann’s comedy material. Hey, that crazy stuff doesn’t write itself!
She MUST have a professional comedy writer writing for her - no one could be that insane in real life, could they? Could they?
With love to Michele Bachmann: don't go changing! We love you just the way you are! (except for the elected-official part).
Nate wrote: "Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty has thus far refused to sign an election certificate..."
It would be illegal for Pawlenty to sign the election certificate at this time.
MN election statutes forbid it, as was confirmed by a recent MN Supreme Court opinion.
GeorgeQPublic wrote: "[Katherine Harris] drank the Republican KoolAid for the Bush team...and the voters booted her butt right out as soon as they had the chance."
You might want to do a little fact checking.
In 2002, she was elected U.S. Representative for Florida's 13th congressional district. She was re-elected in 2004.
Both times, she won by a 10% margin.
GeorgeQPublic wrote: "[Katherine Harris] drank the Republican KoolAid for the Bush team...and the voters booted her butt right out as soon as they had the chance."
You might want to do a little fact checking.
In 2002, she was elected U.S. Representative for Florida's 13th congressional district. She was re-elected in 2004.
Both times, she won by a 10% margin._______________________________
I noticed you stopped tracking her electoral career in 2004. What pray tell happened to the esteemed Ms. Harris in 2006?
GROG said ...
We're not all like that. These are just a couple of idiots trying to stir everyone up.
It wouldn't surprise me if the goof behind Foghorn/Long Dong/"Nate" has never filled out a ballot in his life. He posts as a thin caricature of a "wingnut".
@Markymark: your interpretation is also supported by data from Alexa. FiveThirtyEight.com reached a huge peak of traffic around election time. It then sagged off quite a lot, but over the past few months has regained the level it attained in September, which was a pretty good level.
So FiveThirtyEight.com is doing pretty darn well, as still essentially a one-man show. What I look forward to is a remaking of the site with more features and good writers. Sean Quinn seems to have faded away.
Nate needs a couple of really good and prolific analyst-writers, someone with his type of skills (quant and verbal) but perhaps with different interests and skewed more toward the right of the political spectrum.
This blog is here to stay. We're looking for the next big changes.
Jen asked: "What pray tell happened to the esteemed Ms. Harris in 2006?"
In 2006, Harris ran for U.S. Senate and was crushed by Bill Nelson.
Please note, however, that this does not support GeorgeQPublic's false assertion that "the voters booted her butt right out as soon as they had the chance."
Which was the point I was making.
Actually, it does. Katherine Harris won in 2002 and 2004 in a very Republican district. The first chance voters state-wide had the chance to boot her in 2006 they did.
Jen wrote: "The first chance voters state-wide had the chance to boot [Harris] in 2006 they did."
That much is true. But GeorgeQPublic never mentioned "state-wide" voters.
As a Minnesotan, I can tell you, T-Paw is a party hack who tries to come off as a moderate...pretty much like Coleman. He came to power at the height of neo-con popularity on a platform of no tax hikes EVER. He has essentially shifted the burden from those who can most afford it, to those who can least afford it by refusing to raise state taxes, and cutting state aid everywhere else, so it's up to cities and counties to raise taxes, and of course the taxes they have the power to levy are borne more heavily by those who don't have the money to pay for them. Under his tenure, we have gone from a progressive to a regressive tax structure in MN when all taxes an dfees are factored in.
But he avoids getting his hands dirty, he is never the one to raise the taxes or do anything controversial. He desperately wants to look like the guy who holds the line on tax increases, even if that means a bridge has to fall down and schools have to close, because unless it's a direct one to one cause and effect, voters don't see it. He got re-elected by the skin of his teeth in 2006 simply because his opponent made a last minute gaffe, and even then he barely squeaked by.
What matters to Pawlenty is that whatever he wants to do, he can lay claim to being someone who held the line on taxes for 8, 10, 12 or however many years he holds this role. I think to the extent that he will help out the Republican party, it's because that's his ideology...he is still a believer in the failed trickle down economic theory, he knows there are plenty of true believers, and he knows the way to power is to keep on the good side of people with money, while trying to look like a friend to the little guy (because let's face it, your average voter is going to hear that he keeps taxes low and isn't going to pay much attention to the fact that his "tax cuts" are simply shifting the liability to where it doesn't belong.
So to the extent that he is helping out the party one more time, I think he is actually doing what he needs to do in order to not be seen as too partisan. Because after all, Mark Ritchie, a Democrat, hasn't signed that certificate either. It's been determined that until all contests in state courts are exhausted, it's not time to seat the new Senator. It sucks, but such is life. Pawlenty minimizes harm to his brand if he stays within the letter of the law here...he has mostly stayed out of it, and therefore, I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with the Senate contest if his ratings are going down.
The reason for his declining numbers is that we are in tough times, and his no new taxes schtick is getting tired. As more people need to rely on government services just to get by these days, more are realizing that by holding the line on taxes, it's forcing cuts to these services which hey, are essential after all! In fairly robust economic times, Pawlenty could pull this off...now he's been at the helm for over 6 years, and thins have gotten steadily worse, yet he has not changed his tune. People are now looking for someone who will be flexible and adapt to the times, they're no longer looking for inflexibility. And THAT is what will cost him his political future, unless a strong recovery coincides with the next election cycle in which he runs for something.
OK billbg, try this. Jen is entirely correct in stating that "the voters booted her [Katherine Harris's] butt right out as soon AS SOON AS THEY HAD THE CHANCE," because as long as she was running for the House in the very Republican 13th Congressional District of Florida there WAS NO CHANCE of defeating her. Only with her run for US Senate in 2006 did that chance finally arrive. The voters of the sunny state of Florida flocked to the polls and exercised their franchise. Bye bye Katherine Harris.
priscianus jr... As I already noted, Jen was correct to say: "The first chance voters state-wide had the chance to boot [Harris] in 2006 they did."
I never claimed otherwise.
What I said was that GeorgeQPublic was wrong when he asserted "the voters booted her butt right out as soon as they had the chance."
Unless you believe the citizens in Florida's 13th congressional district are not voters, of course.
billbg,
That was an omission, connecting the dots between a statewide action and a statewide election. However you also left out the statewide angle, which is more than a little implied in the whole subject.
Is there that much need to keep splitting hairs about it without acknowledging your own? ;)
One thing to add to the commentary on how vocal Franken should be on this: he does have an ally in Klobuchar. She has been on talk TV quite a lot vocalising her frustration with having to do 2 jobs in the Senate. Her increased workload doesn't come with any increased pay, however, which is an issue that resonates with female voters - who outnumber male MN voters. Given that she has set shifting deadlines thus far, but is now saying July 4 is her final deadline before she starts raising hell back home to get Franken seated, I think Al can safely join in with her at that time - after a state SC verdict but before any fed appeals process can get underway. Norm can still appeal at the fed level even if Pawlenty signs the cert, anyway, so Coleman loses no rights. If Pawlenty wants to escape that kind of constant barrage, he needs to abide by Klobuchar's informal rules.
-Jeff
I really have to wonder why Mule Rider and all his personalities are not locked up. It is pretty sad that he feels the need to sock puppet Nate, and post as Long Dong Silver to give himself some positive comments.
He must be a sad and lonely person.
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Pawlenty probably thinks that the Republican party is doing well and that this will increase his chances in 2012.
Appealling to the 20% backwash of America seems to be the goal of the Republicans.
Why are people complaining about not having 2 Senators?
Illinois and Arizona went without full representation for nearly 2 years during the last Presidential campaigns.
The only time Obama or McCain showed up to vote or perform any Senatorial duties is when they thought it would help their campaigns.
@beavis
"Foghorn Stiffy" is none other than the chronic coward, Smoking Aces. Check the second on the list. The first one listed is most of the Smoking Aces posts, along with Average Citizen and a few other early names.
The second was Smoking Ace's [botched] attempt to hide under the pseudonym "Donald" and then went "Stiffy".
The "Nate Silver" and "Long Dong Silver" are recent one-shot accounts, with the former having been just used as "Blade" to harass "Joshua Grossman", the newest contributor to the the site.
Maybe the people that claimed that Smoking Aces is actually Mule Rider, or at least one of the Mule Riders, were onto something? *shrug*
haha "Alright, I'll do a damn lot-count."
And Smoking Asses is Ass Rider....
Is Franken pulling Pawlenty down? No I don't think so. Pawlenty's actions and behavior is pulling him down. The longer he particpates in the obstruction, hopefully the deeper he goes!
In Europe, party and individual are intertwined. A bad politician hurts the party and vice versa. In America,this link is almost non-existent because of personality politics and the two parties ideologies are so close together.
Nevertheless, this party-personality link is perhaps closer in Massachusetts than in say Iowa?
Nate Silver is brilliant statistician perhaps it is time to examine the party-personality link across state and across toime?
Perhaps, this will answe the question is T-Paw taking one for the team?
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