Andrew has already alluded to this, but Greg Mankiw, a conservative blogger and Harvard economist whom I've sparred with in the past, has this to say about Supreme Court Nominee Sonia Sotomayor:
I once wrote a short paper called The Savers-Spenders Theory of Fiscal Policy based on the premise that there are two types of people: Some save and intertemporally optimize their consumption plans, while others live paycheck to paycheck, spending their entire income as soon as it's received.[...]While admittedly, the She's-just-Sonia-from-the-Bronx narrative has already grown a bit tiresome, Mankiw's critique is a bizarre on several levels. For one thing, while a $179,000-per-year income is quite a lot wherever one lives, it doesn't go as far in New York City as in almost any other place. State taxes in New York are pretty high for the upper income brackets, and New York City also charges a city tax of 3.648%. As a single filer, Sotomayor's income tax burden, counting her federal nut, is probably something like $65,000.
Apparently, the new Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor is an example of the latter. The Washington Post reports that the 54-year-old Sotomayer has a $179,500 yearly salary butOn her financial disclosure report for 2007, she said her only financial holdings were a Citibank checking and savings account, worth $50,000 to $115,000 combined. During the previous four years, the money in the accounts at some points was listed as low as $30,000.My grandmother would have been shocked and appalled to see someone who makes so much save so little.
In addition, New York City is an expensive place to live: particularly on the Island of Manhattan, and even more particularly in the West Village neighborhood where Sotomayor has her apartment. The average price of a two-bedroom rental apartment apartment in a doorman building in Greenwich Villiage is $5,396 per month, or about $65,000 per year. (Sotomayor, from what I can gather, in fact still rents her space). So considering her tax bill and the cost of her apartment, Sotomayor is down to "only" about $50,000 in disposable income per year. A single person can certainly live very well on that sort of income -- even in Manhattan -- but would probably not live what we'd ordinarily consider an extravagant lifestyle. It would be quite easy to spend a good chunk of that $50,000 on utilities, transport, groceries, and extra medical care (Sotomayor is diabetic); throw in a couple of nice meals out every month, tickets to a dozen Yankees games each year, and maybe a week's worth of vacation, and you're not going to have a whole heck of a lot left over. And of course, if one is generous with one's friends, or gives money to one's extended family or to charity, the money will go even faster. Sure, it's a pretty full life. But it's not likely that Sotomayor is downing bottles of Cristal and snorting coke in the bathroom every Friday at Hotel Gansevoort, or having four-martini lunches with the Sex and the City girls at Bryant Park.
What makes Mankiw's argument even sillier, however, is that it reflects a lack of understanding of the very thing that he, as the World's 23rd Best Economist*, ought to know very well: incentives. What are a person's incentives to save, rather than spend, money? The four basic ones are usually these:
1. To protect against downside in one's income, particularly the risk of being fired.
2. To save for retirement.
3. To save for one's family and children.
4. To save for an expensive purchase, such as a home or a nice car.
Nos. 1-3 don't really apply to Sotomayor. With the possible exception of being a tenured professor at Harvard, few positions offer more job and income security than that of a justice on the Federal Circuit Court; Sotomayor would have to be impeached by the House and found guilty by the Senate to lose her job, something which has happened only a handful of times in American History. Sotomayor's federal pension is undoubtedly very generous, rendering #2 somewhat moot, particularly as she could also stand to make a significant "post-retirement" income in private practice or on the lecture circuit. And she does not have a children or a husband to support. It would be quite irrational if she had half a million dollars collecting dust and 0.01% interest in her Chase checking account.
Perhaps Mankiw's grandmother would find her more virtuous if she were saving up for a Lexus or a summer home in the Hamptons, but that doesn't seem to be her cup of tea. Her one real indulgence is the apartment she keeps in the West Village. Although virtually anywhere that would be a reasonable commute from her courtroom in Lower Manhattan would be relatively expensive, she could save a bit by living in the Financial District or perhaps in Brooklyn. But Mankiw, who lives in a zip code where the median price of a house is 1.65 million dollars, should not exactly be throwing stones from his undoubtedly very charming, New England Colonial home.
* Barry Julian Eichengreen, who recently surpassed him in the rankings, should not be expecting any Christmas Cards from the Mankiw family!

98 comments
I feel certain this won't be the last absurd argument against Sotomayor's nomination
Nate,
Thanks for the good news that Barry Eichengreen, author of "Golden Fetters" has displaced Greg Mankiw from his post on the list of greatest economists. With even more additions we can displace him into utter obscurity, and then the opinions of his mental construct of grandmother will not matter any more.
But why does she still rent?
Haha, nice post.
I love how the link on Mankiw's blog to "the best way to learn economics" is to his textbook on Amazon. Sure the three people who commented on the $163 textbook (marked down from the list of $211!) seemed to have liked it, and his reputation suggests that he's a decent economist, but I bet his grandmother would be ashamed of his shameless self promotion. (Personally, I'd rather learn econ. from Kai Ryssdal)
Oh, Nate. Good to have you back.
@Daniel,
Because in this age of the insane housing bubble it costs much less to rent than to own. In other words she is rational, just one more reason she is a good pick.
Wow- you just broke him down into the painfully small man that he truly is.....
Isn't it entirely beside the point what her personal finance philosophy is re: her qualifications as a SC nominee? Or am I missing something?
Or is the absurdity of this criticism so obvious that it doesn't even deserve to be acknowledged?
Title needs a spelling tweak, Nate.
Otherwise, great post!
A little off-topic (still about Sotomayor), but an interesting point made on Daily Kos and TPM (deeper links in both articles) about the percent of Sotomayor's rulings upheld on appeal to the Supreme Court: 3 of 6, or 50%, when about 25% is the norm. Of course, the Wall Street Journal puts their own spin on it by only mentioning two of the three that were overturned, 5-4 and 9-0, and referring to that as "a number of her decisions [having been] overturned" as though it were unusually high. Don't know what the average number of cases appealed to the Supreme Court for Second Circuit justices is, but if you look at it in terms of "batting average" the DKos article calls it "a figure even Ted Williams would have to admire." I don't really see a whole lot that can be disagreed with by either side of the aisle in the Senate, excepting those who had already made up their minds about her before they even knew who the nominee was.
Nate's reference to his disagreement with Mankiw made me reread that comment thread. It made me realize how clumsy and unsuccinct my arguments were at that time. Brad Delong effectively cleaned Mankiw's clock with faw fewer words than I (or even Nate) could have. Here is what he wrote:
"My statement:
There appears to be an error in N. Gregory Mankiw's "Economic View" column of January 11, 2009. The error is the association of Christina Romer with the proposition that the tax multiplier--the effect on GDP of a tax cut--is twice the spending multiplier. The Romers' article does not distinguish between the two, referring only to the "substantial multiplier... due to the procyclical behavior of investment" (p. 37 of the working paper version, at
http://tinyurl.com/dl20090111).
David Romer in conversation two years ago characterized the paper to me as "hyper-Keynesian... suggesting very large multipliers..." The Romers believe in a tax multiplier no larger than the spending multiplier, and they certainly do not believe that a balanced-budget equivalent reduction in taxes and spending provide any Keynesian stimulus at all.
Mankiw's comparison of the 1.4 estimated spending multiplier from Valerie Ramey's study with the 3.0 estimated tax multiplier from the Romers' study is inappropriate. The two studies use very different methodologies. They are not comparable. For example, the Ramey study on the effects of government spending--while a superb contribution to the literature, and one that I have assigned to my graduate students--does not fully control for the tax increases that often accompany spending increases. Thus it is very likely to understate the effects of spending increases alone: her study assesses the impact of the Korean-War military spending increase without taking account of the fact that it was accompanied by a large tax increase.
What Romer and Romer's study (and their earlier work on monetary policy) shows is not that tax cuts are uniquely effective, but rather that failing to consider the reasons for policy changes leads to underestimates of the effects of all types of stimulus. Because these issues of omitted variable bias are likely to be as strong for spending as for tax changes, the most reasonable interpretation of their paper is that all types of fiscal stimulus are more potent than conventional estimates would lead us to believe.
It is somewhat puzzling that Mankiw appears to believe that the Romers do think that tax multipliers are larger than spending multipliers, as they do not, and this is something that he could have very easily checked."
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/01/
the-romer-view-of-tax-
and-spending-multipliers-
revisited.html
True - very silly indeed. Even sillier that you take him this seriously, Nate!
I take it Mr Mankiw isn't allowed to be less-then-serious once in a while?
I can see the sound bite now: 538 says "Sotomayor is downing bottles of Cristal and snorting coke in the bathroom every Friday at Hotel Gansevoort".
Great post. One small nit -- she's a Judge, NOT a Justice. The only "Justices" in the federal judiciary sit on One First Street in Washington DC. There are eight of them and a ninth who is known as the Chief Justice of the United States.
Actually, I guess there are now 10 Justices (including the Chief), as Justice O'Connor still sits by designation on other federal courts, as will Justice Souter. So, there will soon be 11 Justices (counting the Chief Justice).
Thunderdome!
I would also assume that Judge Sotomayor would, as a member of the judiciary, scrupulously seek to avoid even the appearance of conflict of interest in her finances.
This may have led her to avoid typically more lucrative investments such as holding stocks, bonds, etc...all of which may compromise or at the very least, be seen as compromising, her impartiality in certain cases.
Imagine if she did have large financial holdings; they would be mercilessly scrutinized at this point and only create problems for her.
So perhaps Ms Sotomayor long ago took her own private vow of relative financial modesty, to preserve the utmost appearance of integrity. That would have been a very wise move on her part.
I bet right now she's very happy that her finances are so uncomplicated and non-controversial. And shame on Mankiw for proving himself to be a political hack in this case.
Nate. I've missed you and your snarkacious headlines. No more vacations for you.
And slightly more seriously, which is not in keeping with the post: I'd think that a judge of her standing would feel secure in her job and in her future earning power. Hence the lack of savings.
Also, I'd wager she's probably paid her taxes on time a lot.
She can't take the money with her when she die afterall you doing your fine research would know she does not have any kids
/And what do her saving have to do with her being a judge
My comment wasn't towards you Nate but towards Greg Mankiw
Why must economists be so blatantly political?
Some save and intertemporally optimize their consumption plansMeanwhile, others borrow and spend and intertemporally optimize their consumption plans. Saving is a way to intertemporally maximize if you think that you'll make less money in the future. Borrowing is a way to intertemporally maximize if you think that you'll make more money in the future. (Surely the existence of a category known as "student loans" - many of which people use for living expenses and not just tuition - should make this at least somewhat clear.)
Mankiw's comment only makes sense from a perspective of a certain sort of career where you're already making a lot of money, and expect to some day stop making money. But Nate nicely points out that as a federal judge Sotomayor really doesn't fit into this category, any more than a medical school student does, or someone expecting a large promotion, or someone nearing the end of their life, or probably plenty of other exceptions.
ONE CORRECTION, that further undermines Mankiw's analysis. Federal judges don't merely receive "generous pensions," as Nate assumed. Rather, they receive full salary for life, even if they retire to become a "senior judge." The U.S. Constitution (Article III) requires that their salary "shall not be diminished during their continuance in office." The only way they can lose full salary is to either be impeached or take a different job (presumably with a fatter salary).
I wish you would lay off mankiw. I have learned economics under him in the last year and I want you to know he's not a partisan, he just believes in his economic principles. You missed the point of his post, he tries to make the point that his article makes. There are 2 types of people, spenders and savers, income independent. This is just an example of this independence.
Maybe this is just an attempt to imply that she has an undiscloded stash...
Mankiw's comment was a slightly irrelevant aside. Silver's response reads like the paranoid ravings of an OC stalker.
In any case, Mankiw is required reading for those of us concerned with Obama's headlong bankruptcy of the country. Although I realize that such topics are trivialities when compared with the Dems prospects in ND-4 in 2032.
Mankiw as 23rd best economist is a bit dubious when Amarta Sen is 160. Sen has won a freakin' Nobel and he's 160??
I read Mankiw's post on his blog yesterday, and it got me quite annoyed for the reasons you've given Nate. So I lolled when I saw the title to this post come up in my google reader! Given Mankiw is objectively a very good economist, it's rather disheartening that he can still allow the desire to make a snarky/partisan post to impair his better judgment.
Mankiw's grandmother would be appalled at Judge Sotomayer's lack of savings?
Wow. Is this what the right has been reduced to?
I guess after all of the "marxist, socialist, communist, fascist, terrorist" language, they really are out of ideas.
Also, Huckabee referring to her as "Maria" was a nice touch. Of course, in Mike's world, every hispanic woman that he knows (both of them) are named Maria.
Well, my grandmother would be appalled at justices (and judges) who disregard the Constitution to benefit their political agenda.
I see Huck didn`t have the decency to apoligize for his mistake to the judge. The right has nothing to really attack her on, she is a pretty moderate judge and is about the best they could expect from Obama.
I hope the next one he nominates is as far left as he can find, so the right can just go insane with the next one.
Obama tries to be reasonable but there is no placating the crazies on the right, they act like Obama is going to give them a conservative. McCain had it right, elections matter, tough luck wingers.
Mankiw doesn't even have his facts right. From a comment on TaxProf Blog: "Professor Mankiw apparently does not know that federal judges do not disclose savings in the Federal Government's Thrift Savings Plan or the value of their primary residence on the required financial disclosure forms.
The instructions state:
You are not required to report:
Investments in the Thrift Savings Plan. Section 102(i)(1)(A).
Any property, real or personal, not held in a trade or business, or for investment or the production of income. As examples, you need not report a private residence or personal automobiles. Section 102(a)(3).
Judge Sotomayer has been a judge since 1992 and may have place[d] a significant amout of money in the TSP. I have no idea if she has invested in purchasing a house, but if she may have significant assets tied up in a home that are not disclosed on the financial disclosure form. One cannot tell the total assets from the FDR."
Mark my words: if this becomes a primary mode of attack on her, the takeaway from conservative pundits won't be poor savings habits, it'll be the 5 grand rent on an apartment in the West Village, which New Yorkers accept without blinking, but will make her seem like a limousine liberal to folks living in small town, red state America. I live in SC (am originally from PA, near Philly), and when most people in Eutawville or Lynchburg or Cypress Crossroads hear 5 grand for an apartment, they picture the marble-clad penthouse from Diff'rent Strokes, not the pleasant, but utilitarian apartment on Seinfeld.
Oh, and she's unmarried and lives in the West Village? There'll be a lot of nudge nudge wink wink on Fox news over that. (Ridiculous since the non-tourist gay scene got gentrified out of the West Village twenty years ago, but in popular consciousness, it's a dog whistle, trust me.)
The downside for the GOP is that as usual, they just don't grok American popular culture. The majority of Americans don't watch Seinfeld, Friends, Sex and the City, Will and Grace, Gossip Girl or How I Met Your Mother and feel revulsion for urbane attitudes and loose morals... what they feel is more akin to wistful jealousy.
If her spending becomes an issue, Sotomayor's defenders need to arrange for her to be interviewed live on the Today show by Meredith Vieira in the apartment and maybe at her favorite cafe. America will both like her and want to be her.
I have been using Desktop Budget from http://Spryka.com to manage my personal finances for a few months now. Its the easiest to use free, offline personal finance software I have seen so far.
Devastating, Nathan. Simply devastating. Bravo.
As the world's 2,470th best economist, I would like to urge posters to not savage Prof. Mankiw too badly. He's a good economist with whom one can have reasonable disagreements. His textbook is the best that I have ever used and is very well-balanced. He is by no means a party-line Republican.
In addition, his blog is consistently interesting and often quite funny (and indeed his Sotomayor post is more funny commentary than a serious criticism of the nominee).
I would encourage people to read Mankiw's blog for a good sense of intelligent (generally) conservative thought that is leagues away from mindless Rush/Hannity/Coulter drivel that often passes for debate on the other side. His is the only conservative blog I read on a regular basis, and I often find myself nodding in agreement (although probably not as often as I find myself agreeing with 538).
Nate:
Did you really need to spend an entire post to rebut someone who criticizes that way another citizen spends her money?
Is it really that slow of a news day?
Mankiw's comment was a slightly irrelevant aside. Silver's response reads like the paranoid ravings of an OC stalker.
Amen. Silver pushes himself as being a purveyor of thoughtful and intellectual political analysis and then offers up this drivel? I like how he brings up how he has "sparred" with Mankiw in the past. Mankiw is about as concerned with Silver as he is with a mole on his neighbor's ass. Anyway, I just want to add that it's hard to take Nate or anything on this site seriously when they go absolute bonkers over an irrelevant comment.
In any case, Mankiw is required reading for those of us concerned with Obama's headlong bankruptcy of the country. Although I realize that such topics are trivialities when compared with the Dems prospects in ND-4 in 2032.
Double amen. The Left is obsessively concerned with grinding the opposition into pulp and making them completely disappear. They're still trying to play "Gotcha!" with a party they've already marginalized to ~40% of Congress, but they're absolute cowards when it comes to dealing with real issues with potentially devastating consequences. What's the old saying about being penny-wise and pound-foolish? Or fiddling while Rome burns?
This country will turn into a third world backwater at the hands of Barack Obama and a supermajority of Democrats in the next decade. Count on it.
This wasn't even an attack on her. He found something in the news that he could tie to his research. He used his grandmother as a contrast, but he doesn't hold her up as a moral example of what people should be; she's just his grandmother.
Meanwhile Nate kind of flies off the handle and gets real snarky. He doesn't seem to realize that this isn't a critique or an argument. He wrote an update to clarify:
"Update: Several readers have emailed me to suggest the Judge Sotomayer does not need to save much because federal judges have generous retirement benefits. Maybe so. And, in any event, economic theory alone does not prescribe what the right level of saving should be: Optimal saving is a function of the subjective rate of time preference, and economists have no basis to say that some intertemporal preferences are better than others. In my savers-spenders model, both savers and spenders may be acting optimally given their own preferences. I am sure, however, that none of these arguments would have convinced my grandmother."
Oh, I wonder what Sotomayor thinks about her taxes going up. She is single and makes more than $125,000 per year, right?
Funny how the argument a couple of months ago - when taxes were the hot topic - was how well-off and fabulously rich people with SS's salary are and how they need to be paying more; i.e., their "fair share"?
Now Silver is trying to make the case that an upper-6 figure income in NYC is a peasant's wage?
What a joke.
"In any case, Mankiw is required reading for those of us concerned with Obama's headlong bankruptcy of the country. Although I realize that such topics are trivialities when compared with the Dems prospects in ND-4 in 2032."
Why is it so hard to understand that this is a site about politics? If you wanted a site about economics, I'm reasonably sure you could find good ones. Lemme guess, you also write letters to the editor of "People" magizine complaining that they didn't have one page about the budget.
Mankiw is fairly widely read in certain circles. He doesn't only write about economics. When he makes comments (however facetious) about a Supreme Court nominee, he's writing about politics. When he disparages the nominee, he has earned a response.
Nate also doesn't only write about politics. He frequently writes about economics. More generally he writes about "political economics." Engaging Mankiw is also good business -- for FiveThirtyEight.com -- by sharing the notoriety, so to speak.
In other words: "If you're so smart, why ain't you rich?"
She's got more than half a year's salary in the bank, and no huge mortgage. How many Americans can say that in 2009? How many Americans who went to law school can say that in 2009?
This country will turn into a third world backwater at the hands of Barack Obama and a supermajority of Democrats in the next decade. Count on it.Casual Observer - congradulations - you are the Andy Kaufmann of rightwing trolltards.
casual observer says: "What's the old saying about being penny-wise and pound-foolish? Or fiddling while Rome burns?"Huh? So, are Democrats cowardly doing too little, too much or nothing at all? The recent discovery that Republicans are satirically challenged came as no surprise, but do they struggle with metaphors as well?
The problem with this woman is the same problem with Obama -- They are not normal people and have not lived normal lives.
Neither has any conception of what it is like for average Americans to make it in the world.
Both went from Welfare to Affirmative Action Educations to Public Sector Employment to High Office without ever having lived in The Real World.
This lady has an antipathy to white people, men, and blue collar working class males in particular. She is also rude and arrogant to the hired help.
Harriet Miers meets Leona Helmsley!
petekent01 (on twitter)
PeteKent -
The problem with this woman is the same problem with Obama -- They are not normal people and have not lived normal lives.
Neither has any conception of what it is like for average Americans to make it in the world.text
For some reason, these two people, both of whom come from humble backgrounds, one of whom lived in multiple parts of the country, aren't and can't understand "average Americans".
Both went from Welfare to Affirmative Action Educations to Public Sector Employment to High Office without ever having lived in The Real World.text
This is pure racism and bigotry, plain and simple.
It's essentially a point blank statement that someone who is defined as a "minority" and grew up on public assistance shouldn't be allowed on the supreme court.
Why is it so hard to understand that this is a site about politics?
Don't even. I mean, don't even. Saying something like that to defend Silver is flat ridiculous when with just one glance at the side of the page you find there have been 50 posts on this site tagged with the "economy" as a topic and 22 posts tagged with "econometrics" (which conveys the idea of high-level, statistical/quantitative understanding and analysis of economics) and Nate has repeatedly whored himself out as an expert in that discipline.
You should be beaten with a phone cord for making such a ridiculous defense of Silver's criticism.
How much could the Sotomayor choice help Obama in 2012? More than modestly, perhaps moderately:
http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2009/05/politically-potent-sotomayor-choice.html
When he makes comments (however facetious) about a Supreme Court nominee, he's writing about politics. When he disparages the nominee, he has earned a response.
Let's put this in perspective, dipshit. Mankiw is a respected economist, but Silver has emerged as Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People in the World. That's not a list Mankiw is on. Silver has opened himself up for brutal critique from every angle as a result. When he talks (he being Nate Silver), he has most definitely earned and deserves a response. I only hope he is torn down and humiliated as a result.
And, Juris, you are a pathetic dimwith for not acknowleding this. You guys have spent months touting Silver's awesomeness. Don't downplay it onw that he's getting play alongside the real big boys. His name is in lights. Let's see how long it stays there. My guess is another 12 months, tops.
I think Mankiw's subtle point is that she may not have the disposition of a traditional judge. Her spending may be perfectly rational. Her nest egg may be more than adequate -- but the simple fact that she isn't putting away a higher percentage suggests that she doesn't have the prudent (or "overly cautious") disposition we have traditionally expected of good judges.
And to be honest, maybe that is also a good thing, in terms of showcasing different perspectives.
1. Mankiw is a partisan Republican - and very resistant to any economics though or research that is not consistent with the party line. His treatment of environmental issues in his classes is notoriously awful and inconsistent with the research.
2. His book sucks donkey balls, its awful. Stiglitz' book is orders of magnitude better.
i want to re-iterate and expand what SBL posted above. The financial disclosure form is not a complete listing of a person's wealth. Assuming Sotomayor is a "judicial" person, she would likely do all of her investing in the Federal Thrift Savings Plan - which as SBL noted is exempt from disclosure. This is because any investment in a private company, even in a privately managed mutual fund, could lead to a future conflict of interest problem which would require her to recuse herself from hearing a case.
Also not shown on the form, besides personal autos as SBL mentioned, would be any other personal possessions - such as jewelry, furniture or works of art, these could add up to a substantial reserve of wealth should the Judge need cash in the future (but which Nate's post makes clear would be unlikely given her circumstances).
You missed one obvious point. The success in getting promotions by government employees is much more influenced by your image, who you know and if they like you. Entertaining is an investment, not an expense.
Why not comment on her lack of that other investment in the future children.
Does she have to disclose 'investments' in antiques, jewelry, gold coins?
sucks donkey ballsAlways a delightful phrase when making an intellectual critique. Maybe you want to offer something with a little more substance than worthless drivel and an inane 2-point rant if you want to be taken seriously.
Oh, by the way, there's no "party line" when it comes to economics. Economics doesn't bend to fit policy. It's the other way around. You're either from the Friedman school or the Keynesian school. Republicans more often than not are Friedmanites, while Democrats are more often than not Keynesians.
I don't see you chastising prominent Democrats from their unwavering support of Keynesian principles.
casualobserver says: "The Left is obsessively concerned with grinding the opposition into pulp and making them completely disappear. They're still trying to play "Gotcha!" with a party they've already marginalized to ~40% of Congress..."I would strongly suggest you're being far too casual in your observations, especially if and when you're observing yourself.
That made absolutely no sense, Peorgie. Get back with me when you can make a point in a simple, declarative sentence.
Every time Mule Rider shows up with one of his many handles, the quality of the comments plummet. This guy make PK seem intelligent and rational.
*****************************
I see comments about the irrelevant spending habits of a judge to be nothing more than sour grapes. Too many people spend more than they make and think everyone needs to be up to their eyeballs in debt.
The fact she isn't shows restraint and intelligence. Two important qualities in a Justice.
She is also more qualified than Roberts, Alito and Miers put together, although Miers adds nothing to that sum.
The far left and right are not happy, which means Obama likely made a good choice.
We know that Mankiw did not base his argument on economics, or anything like rationality. Rather, it's just another argument against the judge: "look, she's a [liberal] spendthrift.
Nice try. Won't work.
Next up: "Look at the outrageous federal pension she'll get! Ward of the state!" Of course, neither Nino nor Clarence will accept their pensions.
Ridiculous and ignorant comment there, Birkland.
You guys just can't help yourselves in getting all worked up and going absolute bonkers over the innocent comments of another (irrelevant) conservative. What's the deal? Mankiw is a madman, right? Friedman-style economics is all voodoo, right? Why do you even waste time and space writing about the dimwit?
Your master Obama has all the answers and Sotomayor was obviously the best SC pick in the more than 200-year existence of this country. Why worry about the inane drivel coming from some conservative econowhack?
I don't get it. I just don't get it. More fiddling while Rome burns.
Hello, Third World, here we come!
She actually owns her Village Home according to the New York Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/us/politics/27websotomayor.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=all
Which has probably appreciated quite a bit since 1998.
Casual Observer -
So you don't like this...
"His book sucks donkey balls, its awful."
Funny, I was going to comment that you include a lot of insulting, inappropriately angry and threatening comments yourself, for example...(full posts directly above for anyone who wants to read them)...
"You should be beaten with a phone cord for making such a ridiculous defense of Silver's criticism."
"Let's put this in perspective, dipshit."
"I only hope he is torn down and humiliated as a result."
"And, Juris, you are a pathetic dimwith for not acknowleding this."
By the way -
"You're either from the Friedman school or the Keynesian school."
That's a false dichotomy.
No-one is obliged to follow the ideas of one economist as an ideology.
It's perfectly possible to think that different economists were right about different things, or that there are topics that no economist has covered completely.
Suck it, harold. I'm not trying to make an intellectual critique of a respected economist and his textbook like Anon was. Donkeyballsesque language is perfectly fine when you're in the peanut gallery, as I am, and you're simply addressing or slamming the ridiculous comments of fellow posters. But if you're trying to make a serious assessment of a serious topic involving a serious person, "sucks like donkey balls" will not suffice as a critique.
Regarding Keynesian vs. Friedman, I didn't mean to insinuate one couldn't adhere to multiple tenets from both schools of thought, but the point I was making was to say that both Democrats and Republicans have a "party line" when it comes to economics. You can't slam a conservative economist for being unyielding to other schools of thought when liberal economists (such as Krguman) are as much unbending from the other end of the spectrum.
Casual Observer -
Ridiculous and ignorant comment there, Birkland.text
His comment was 100% accurate. Mankiw's ludicrous argument was, essentially, that her net worth isn't high enough, relative to her current income, so she isn't qualified to be a SCOTUS justice (this is a very fair paraphrase). Anyone, including you, can see that Mankiw was just scrambling for anything negative to say.
He may have lied or at least gotten the facts wrong, too. If she bought her apartment in 1998 the value is likely very high today. She actually probably has high net worth due to insightful investments. Not that it matters, it's just funny that Mankiw got it backwards.
You guys just can't help yourselves in getting all worked up and going absolute bonkers over the innocent comments of another (irrelevant) conservative.text
You're the one who's calling Mankiw irrelevant, and you're the one who's all worked up, and hurling insults and threats.
What's the deal?
The deal is that Mankiw published his comments and the rest of us have a 100% constitutional right to criticize what he wrote.
The fact that you are far too insecure to deal with criticism of Mankiw is irrelevant.
Mankiw is a madman, right? Friedman-style economics is all voodoo, right? Why do you even waste time and space writing about the dimwit?text
Did anyone say any of that?
Your master Obama has all the answerstext
Did someone say that?
Obama is nobody's "master", he's just the unequivocally elected, popular vote and EC winning president of the United States. No-one has all the answers.
and Sotomayor was obviously the best SC pick in the more than 200-year existence of this country. text
Did anyone say that? Are you saying that Mankiw's argument is valid against all SCOTUS nominees except whichever one is the best pick in 200 years? If not, why did you say this?
Why worry about the inane drivel coming from some conservative econowhack?text
Good question, but I think it is worthwhile to respond.
I don't get it. I just don't get it. More fiddling while Rome burns.text
Yes, if only people would listen to wise prophets like you, but instead, you're persecuted - Oh, the humanity!
Hello, Third World, here we come!text
Not a bad idea for you - you'll find a remarkable absence of "nanny government", "feminism", "gay rights", "gun control", "public education", "government water", "regulated electricity", etc, when you get there. Sounds ideal.
Casual Observer says: "That made absolutely no sense, Peorgie."
It didn't make sense to you, imagine my surprise. Your observations involve a good deal of projection. Attacking someone's argument as intellectually immature while suggesting they should be beaten with a phone cord, suggests a too casual attitude about self observation. Besides struggling with metaphors, you are apparently irony-challenged as well.
You've said: "...you are a pathetic dimwith for not acknowleding... absolute cowards... being penny-wise and pound-foolish? Or fiddling while Rome burns? ...turn into a third world backwater... in the next decade... count on it. My guess is another 12 months, tops."Only to follow-up with this gem:
...when making an intellectual critique. Maybe you want to offer something with a little more substance than worthless drivel...if you want to be taken seriously."Since there's little to be gained by arguing with the equivalent of a precocious 6 year old, I'll defer to fisherman's blues assessment, ...you are the Andy Kaufmann of rightwing trolltards.
tickets to a dozen Yankees games each yearHell, at their current prices, those tickets alone will eat up her annual salary.
@Casual Observer:
Either you don't have a job, or you have one where you don't have to do any work. May I suggest you do something about that, so that you don't spend your entire day here making stupid comments and insulting the intelligent commenters.
To cite just one example of the "stupid comments" (I assume you can figure out for yourself which are insults -- though I could be wrong):
You repeat the observation of Jeff @ 7:21AM about the "Dems prospects in ND-4 in 2032". If you had any political knowledge at all (or knew how to use Wikipedia), you would know that there is no such thing as ND-4, seeing as how North Dakota only has ONE representative.
Well, unless you're suggesting that in the next 20 years the population of North Dakota will grow to match that of, say, Kansas or Mississippi, both of which currently have about 4.5 times as many people as does North Dakota. This would require a sustained population growth of over 7.5% per year for 20 years.
And I just cannot pass up this gem you have shared with us:
This country will turn into a third world backwater at the hands of Barack Obama and a supermajority of Democrats in the next decade. Count on it.If this happens and/or to the extent it already has happened, it will be almost entirely the fault of the Republican raping and pillaging of the economy.
And to save you the trouble: I am a dirty fucking hippie islamofascist who want to force you to gay-marry a dead fetus. Have I covered all the bases for your usual bullshit?
I love it when Nate gets bitchy....
Lately, I have been looking for an introduction to macroeconomics and it was this site that has kept me from buying Mankiw's book. Maybe I should go with Stiglitz...
His comment was 100% accurate. Mankiw's ludicrous argument was, essentially, that her net worth isn't high enough, relative to her current income, so she isn't qualified to be a SCOTUS justice (this is a very fair paraphrase).
Nope. I call bullshit. You're being intellectually dishonest nad your comment is quite UN-fair. Below is Mankiw's entire text on the matter. Nary a word about qualification. A few casual and off-hand remarks about her spending, nothing more. What was that about my "insecurity" to deal with the criticism of Mankiw? Hah! That's a laugh-out-loud statement. I think the issue is yours, Silver's, and many other's insecurity in dealing with a little criticism of Sotomayor's spending habits. Don't get preachy to me when you're guilty of the same stuff and so much more.
I once wrote a short paper called The Savers-Spenders Theory of Fiscal Policy based on the premise that there are two types of people: Some save and intertemporally optimize their consumption plans, while others live paycheck to paycheck, spending their entire income as soon as it's received. Sometimes readers of the paper think of the two groups as rich and poor, but that interpretation is wrong. Some people with low incomes manage to scrimp and save (I always think of my grandmother), and some people with high incomes spend most everything they earn.
Apparently, the new Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor is an example of the latter. The Washington Post reports that the 54-year-old Sotomayer has a $179,500 yearly salary but
On her financial disclosure report for 2007, she said her only financial holdings were a Citibank checking and savings account, worth $50,000 to $115,000 combined. During the previous four years, the money in the accounts at some points was listed as low as $30,000.
My grandmother would have been shocked and appalled to see someone who makes so much save so little.
Update: Several readers have emailed me to suggest that Judge Sotomayer does not need to save much because federal judges have generous retirement benefits. Maybe so. And, in any event, economic theory alone does not prescribe what the right level of saving should be: Optimal saving is a function of the subjective rate of time preference, and economists have no basis to say that some intertemporal preferences are better than others. In my savers-spenders model, both savers and spenders may be acting optimally given their own preferences. I am sure, however, that none of these arguments would have convinced my grandmother.
....it will be almost entirely the fault of the Republican raping and pillaging of the economy.
Another idiot liberal who can't accept blame for anything. It's all whites', Christians', and males' fault, isn't it? Especially those who fit all three categories, right?
Nope, we're headed for third world status in the US, and the Republicans will vanish as a national party in the next five or six years. You can't blame that descent into the abyss on them. They aren't in charge and won't be in charge. This is Obama's economy. This is Obama's country. We're on shaky ground, but there are "glimmers of hope" and the "fundamentals are sound."
If he screws this up....correction, When he screws this up, it will all be on his and his fellow radicals' shoulders.
You're the one who's calling Mankiw irrelevant, and you're the one who's all worked up, and hurling insults and threats.
Nope, the mantra of the Left has pretty much been to label anyone right-of-center as irrelevant. You're the ones bound and determined to absolutely exterminate and annihilate any semblance of conservative thought so there will be absolutely ZERO opposition. I might be hurling insults ("threats" is stretching it), but you're calling for absolute destruction. You're the one leading this country down a dark and dangerous path.
I don't understand C.O.'s contention that "we're headed for third world status in the US."
Let's assume that the right is correct and Obama is a rabid socialist.
Even then, the worst-case scenario is that the U.S. is transitioning to is a more regulated, slower-growth economy similar to Western Europe. Last I checked, those countries were far from the 3rd world and most have a much more even distribution of wealth than the U.S.
It's a little comical how defensive Silver and his followers are on this blog. Nowhere in Mankiw's post is there any value judgement about Sotomayor's fitness for the Supreme Court. The post simply illustrates that saving habits are not correlated with income levels. But somehow Silver and co have divined all manner of negative attacks in Mankiw's post and sought to attack him back as if he were the Republican Boogieman. This post is as weak as the last time Silver went after Mankiw.
Jarvis said...
The only "Justices" in the federal judiciary sit on One First Street in Washington DC.
Jarvis,
It's very apparent that you have no idea of what you speak - namely addresses in the District of Columbia.
Just so you know:
The Library of Congress is located at One First Street. The LoC is in South East.
The Peace Monument on the Capital grounds is located very close to where One First Street, NW, would be located if such an address existed.
The Ulysses S. Grant Memorial is located very close to where One First Street, SW, would be located if such an address existed.
The Supreme Court of the United States is located at One First Street. The SCOTUS is in North East.
In DC, an address without the designation of NE, SE or SW is presumed to be in NW. So you are saying that the Justices of the SCOTUS hold court at the Peace Monument on the Capital grounds? Not a real good location when it rains; or when the weather is cold; or when a Bermuda high makes the thermometer hit the 90s, and the dew point approaches the 75 degree mark (all of which happens a LOT in DC).
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
It's a little comical how defensive Silver and his followers are on this blog.
Thank you! And it's even more comical how they shriek at the people (like myself) pointing out its irrelevance and absurdity and claim we're the "defensive" ones who are battling insecurity issues. I guess the irony is over their heads.
George said...
It's a little comical how defensive Silver and his followers are on this blog. Nowhere in Mankiw's post is there any value judgement about Sotomayor's fitness for the Supreme Court.
So George, why did Mankiw spend any time composing and posting the drivel?
If he's an economist, and since an economist is concerned about the flow on money, he's making a value judgment.
Since the column was about a political appointment, he's making a value judgment about Sotomayor and her personal finances, and by extension her qualifications as a possible Justice of the SCOTUS. After all, there are a lot of issues decided upon by the SCOTUS that involve economics. Didn't Justice Thomas make some type of comment about all the ERISA cases that come before the SCOTUS?
(In case you don't know, ERISA stands for 'Employee Retirement Income Security Act' - a law that is about one aspect of economics - employee retirement income.)
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
Nate may think he found the dumbest comment about Sotomayor, but there are plenty more in the pipeline. Think Progress found that the head of the "Center for Immigration Studies" was quite incensed that people were saying her last name using the "unnatural pronunciation" (a/k/a "non-English pronunciation") of emphasizing the last syllable. It's a strike against her, for sure. Even her supporters are suspected emphathizers.
But I do have to give it to Nate for the funniest headline ever.
The Constant Weader at www.RealityChex.com
Mike in Maryland-
Your post alone shows some of the tortured logic you have to use to set up Mankiw as the bad guy. You seem to think that he is disparaging her because she does not save much of her income. While he is clear that his grandmother would probably berate her for it, he does not, and even does a follow up post to make it clear that there is no optimal savings level for everyone.
You seem to want to ascribe motive to Mankiw's post. Let me help you with that:
Mankiw is an economics nerd of the highest order. He saw something in the public sphere that illustrated the findings of some of his research. He got excited and posted it as an example. That's the motive - an economics teacher wants to teach.
The negative value judgements all seem to be coming from the left wing on this post. Why do you people take the claim that she does not save much income to mean that she is somehow immoral or unfit for SCOTUS?
It's a $1 million condo, not an apartment.
I think that makes a huge difference.
George said...
Mike in Maryland-
Your post alone shows some of the tortured logic you have to use to set up Mankiw as the bad guy.
George,
Did I misstate something?
I stated that Mankiw is an economist. You mean he isn't?
I stated that the Sotomayor nomination is a political act. You mean it isn't?
I stated that an economist commenting on a political appointment is a comment on politics by an economist. You mean it isn't?
I stated that many of the cases before the SCOTUS are economic, and brought up Justice Thomas' comments about ERISA cases as an example of economics being part of SCOTUS cases. Did Justice Thomas lie?
What tortured logic did I use?
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
If you read Mankiw's original post, you get the part that Nate left out:
"Sometimes readers of the paper think of the two groups as rich and poor, but that interpretation is wrong. Some people with low incomes manage to scrimp and save (I always think of my grandmother), and some people with high incomes spend most everything they earn."
With that part included, it is clear that Mankiw was simply giving a counterexample to the flawed idea that spenders and savers correspond to poor and rich.
To say that Mankiw is, by extension, making a judgment regarding Sotomayer's qualifications to serve on the Supreme Court is unfounded conjecture, unless there are other statements that indicate that Mankiw is, in fact, opposed to her appointment for these reasons.
"George said...
It's a little comical how defensive Silver and his followers are on this blog. Nowhere in Mankiw's post is there any value judgement about Sotomayor's fitness for the Supreme Court. "
Are you disingenuous or stupid?
Why do you think Mankiw chose to compose a blog post this week on the finances of Sonia Sotomayor, if not to provide a comment on her fitness for the Supreme Court? Isn't the implication of his blog commentary to imply something negative about Sotomayor? Which would then translate into her fitness about her fitness for the Supreme Court.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, Mike. You're not disingenuous. You're just blinded by bias.
Or perhaps you're just one of these people who has followed a line of argument to where it led, without considering it in the larger context. In the larger context, it is ridiculous to make the argument that you are making.
Steven said:
"To say that Mankiw is, by extension, making a judgment regarding Sotomayer's qualifications to serve on the Supreme Court is unfounded conjecture, unless there are other statements that indicate that Mankiw is, in fact, opposed to her appointment for these reasons."
Double down on disingenuous!
Um, yeah, a lot of us think it's reasonable to infer that Mankiw's intent in writing a negative blog entry about the woman who was nominated for the Supreme Court the day before is doing so because he opposes the nomination.
One doesn't have to be a mind-reader to make that kind of inference. Similarly, I'm going to infer from your argument about Mankiw that you are yourself either opposed to Sotomayor, or just an argumentative pedant.
I am interested to hear what kind of alternative hypothesis there might be for the timing of Mankiw's comments.
George said:
"While he is clear that his grandmother would probably berate her for it, he does not,"
My grandfather would have found you to be a dishonest sophist.
I think at this point I should probably restrict my replies to people who admit that Mankiw was deliberately trying to smear Sotomayor. He didn't randomly refer to the hypothetical opinion of his grandmother as some kind of neutral observation. He didn't mock the low level in her savings account out of some kind of general comment on the low level of savings in America, while blithely being unaware of the importance the woman has in the national consciousness at the present.
Mankiw knew what he was doing. He thought he had stumbled upon some tidbit of information that would reveal Sotomayor to be a loose-spending liberal. He thought that was important. Presumably he also thought that disclosure of this information would reflect negatively on her candidacy.
I will not argue these points! They should be self-evident!But, in the bigger picture, all he has done is reveal himself to be an out-of-touch clueless fool.
whispers said...
Um, yeah, a lot of us think it's reasonable to infer that Mankiw's intent in writing a negative blog entry about the woman who was nominated for the Supreme Court the day before is doing so because he opposes the nomination.
and
I am interested to hear what kind of alternative hypothesis there might be for the timing of Mankiw's comments.
Maybe Mankiw was observing the news and knew that Sotomaror was the odds-on favorite for nomination since about a week after Souter announced he was stepping down?
Maybe Mankiw (being an academic, follows the advice he gives to students to 'do your homework') composed and had ready to post some drivel on each of the perceived 'finalists', just waiting for the announcement?
After all, President Obama made the announcement Tuesday morning, May 26, and Mankiw posted his drivel after the announcement. He probably had something ready to post for all the people being bandied about as possible nominees. Since this one was so weak, I'm sure he had better material prepared if the nominee had been Granholm, or Napolitano or Sebelius.
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
Mike in Maryland said:
"If he's an economist, and since an economist is concerned about the flow on money, he's making a value judgment."
Maybe here is where we are not on the same page. You seem to be confusing "values" in her bank account with "values" the moral issue. Economists often make observations about behaviors with no judgment about whether they are right or wrong.
Whispers said:
"Are you disingenuous or stupid?"
Well said my friend. Thank you for your efforts at trying to sustain the high level of discourse on this blog.
It really surprises you that Sotomayor would be commented on the day she is announced as Obama's pick? She's in the national news! People watch whats going on and then check things out. It doesn't exactly take a research team to find that info on her.
There is no "disingenuous or stupid" just because I don't have the same assumptions as you. Your assumption seems to be that "Mankiw operates with a right wing agenda, so anything he says about a liberal's SCOTUS appointment must be an attack!"
I am not there. And I don't see anything that is an attack in what he said. Try replacing "Mankiw" with "unknown economist X" and see if it troubles you as much.
I think your agenda overpowers your rational thought.
How is this even being interpreted as a critique against Sotomayor in the first place? It seems Mankiw is just making what is, more or less, a random observation followed by a lame anecdote regarding his Grandmother's financial habits.
I can't believe all the hardcore liberal ideologues are making such a big deal about this post in the blogosphere.
Chill out, Nate..
when you say something would have "shocked and appalled" your grandmother, it's a critique. especially when that person is also being critized as "being on welfare" not because it was true, (she wasn't) but because of her ethnicity.
it's also a half-assed-jump-to-conclusions critque as well, since Mankiw doesn't know all the facts about her. As a New Yorker, my thought was she seems pretty set. Also Mankiw didn't know her real estate which includes the condo she lives in and (I believe) a rental property in Brooklyn
Economists are ranked. That's so cute. I wonder what my weatherman's rank is.
Although to be fair pos 23 out of 1000 ain't bad.
Hi,
We have just added your latest post "FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Grandmother of World's 23rd Best Economist Posthumously Offended by Sonia Sotomayor's Spending Habits; Will Obama Withdraw Nomination?" to our Directory of Pets . You can check the inclusion of the post here . We are delighted to invite you to submit all your future posts to the directory and get a huge base of visitors to your website.
Warm Regards
Vaca-tion.info Team
http://www.vaca-tion.info
burn
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店經紀,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店工作,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
菲
梵,
From cell phones users to see the specific situation of occupational segmentation in 2009, accounting for 19.5% of students dropped 21.2 percent over last year, other types of occupations than those last year, the proportion of Internet users cheap cell phones increase. White collar crowd from last year's 29.2% increase to 38.9% this year, accounting for 9.7 percentage points up to replace the student groups cellphone users as one of the biggest occupational hierarchy; blue-collar crowd from last year's 13.9% to 18.9% this year, accounting for rose by 5.0 percentage points, showing that mobile phones users by a group of students to the occupational groups a significant trend in the development. Ereli advice that, cheap cell phones and mobile phone users Internet users monthly income distribution of age, education, occupational distribution has strong correlation with high spending capacity of white-collar workers and some students in the crowd will be a huge cell phone china online potential consumer groups.
By comparing the traditional Internet users, Internet users to iResearch found that the traditional white-collar-based, cell phones wholesale, corporate general staff accounted for 18.9%, higher than the 5.6% of the wholesale cell phones users accounting; and discount cell phones users in the years students and blue-collar workers accounted for significantly more than the traditional Internet users, respectively, accounting for 19.5% and 18.9%, higher than the traditional Internet users Students and blue-collar workers accounted for 7.8% and 5.1% respectively.
The survey found that consumer 3G wholesale china from the crowd of view, the buyer 25 to 40 years old mainly white-collar workers, accounting for about 40%, followed by consumer groups of students, accounting for about three into. According to statistics, 3G wholesale products in sales, compared with a 2G mobile phone sales are still a wide gap between, but since June has been, 3G mobile phones increase in the average monthly buy products for more than 50%, "11" period due to holiday business, the increase of more than 150%. Pk that the "11" after the peak sales of 3G handsets likely to usher in more stable growth.
Post a Comment