Congress is considering legislation to provide vouchers of up to $4,500 to help consumers scrap their gas guzzlers and buy more fuel efficient new cars. Details of the proposal, from the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, are available here.
Proponents argue that in addition to saving oil and curbing greenhouse gas emissions, the measure would provide much needed economic stimulus. Germany, which recently enacted a similar measure, is the only country in which automobile sales increased last year.
Is this program a good idea?
It depends on what the alternative is. If it’s to do nothing, the proposal is a clear winner—even if we completely ignore its environmental impact. But the mere fact that a program is better than doing nothing does not mean that we should adopt it. Adopting this program means not adopting some other variant of it. And with a few simple modifications, the existing cash-for-clunkers proposal could deliver much better results.
Unemployment and idle capacity in the American auto industry are at their highest levels in decades. As the German experience indicates, auto vouchers are likely to produce an immediate surge in auto sales. This would put people to work who would otherwise be doing nothing. A $4,500 voucher that leads to production of an additional $25,000 car would generate $25,000 of additional income along the value added chain, which in turn would generate more than enough tax revenue to pay for the voucher.
For one thing, the program could offer much stronger incentives choose cars with better fuel economy. As the House proposal stands, a consumer gets a $3500 voucher for abandoning an 18 mpg vehicle for one that gets 22 mpg, but only $1000 more for switching to one that gets 28 mpg or more. The real fuel savings and emissions reductions come when someone swaps a 10 mpg Ford Excursion for a 41 mpg Ford Fusion hybrid. New car purchases have long-run consequences. If we’re going to encourage swaps in the first place, why not provide stronger incentives to make the right ones?
What happens to the gas guzzlers that voucher recipients unload? Environmentally, sending them to the scrap heap isn’t necessarily a good idea, since keeping them on the road a little longer would spare the substantial energy use and additional emissions that accompany new vehicle production. By creating a huge boost in the supply of used gas guzzlers, a voucher program would produce an immediate steep decline in their price, which would make them an economical choice for many drivers who use their vehicles only sparingly. Although the per-mile cost of operating these vehicles would still be high, owners would be compensated for that by their low purchase price.
But an even more effective way to encourage reduced emissions and fuel use would be to couple the voucher program with a steep new tax on gasoline whose gradual phase-in would begin only after the economy has again reached full employment. The revenue from such a tax could be used to help pay for a cash-for-clunkers program with even stronger incentives to purchase more efficient new vehicles.
Another problem is that the current cash-for-clunkers bill refers only to fuel economy, not emissions. Although only 10 percent of cars on the road in Los Angeles are more than 15 years old, these vehicles, which are exempt from emissions control laws, account for a majority of the smog in the area. Many of them would be ineligible for a voucher under the proposed legislation, even though the environmental case for including them is compelling.
The real imperative, however, is to act quickly. Unemployment is like empty seats on a commercial airliner. In each case the opportunity to produce something of value is lost forever. If congressional leaders cannot muster the votes necessary to pass the right cash-for-clunkers bill, even the current version would be much better than doing nothing.

61 comments
"But an even more effective way to encourage reduced emissions and fuel use would be to couple the voucher program with a steep new tax on gasoline whose gradual phase-in would begin only after the economy has again reached full employment."
I don't see how it's either a good idea to further strain hand-to-mouth budgets of people driving all over the place desperate to find emloyment, or to sit on a project that might help to pick up the pace of economic recovery until said recovery has already come on its own. And potentially lose several years in the process. I think we should wait to institute the wallet-busting gas tax until we can be sure the lower-income 50% of America won't be moved by it to riot outside the White House with pitchforks - after all, it's not like the layout and infrastructure of American cities and suburbs provides all that much in way of alternatives to driving, and new fuel-efficient cars are in the way of not being all that cheap - a voucher would be a good offset, but nowhere near enough to actually enable a driver without savings, decent financing options, or job security - or a job - to plonk down the dough for its purchase.
Good idea if not REQUIRED to give up older vehicles like in fascist state of MD. In NM (thank God), you don't even have to have fenders.
Sorry, but this is hard to believe:
A $4,500 voucher that leads to production of an additional $25,000 car would generate $25,000 of additional income along the value added chain, which in turn would generate more than enough tax revenue to pay for the voucher.
Do you have any proof for this statement? If so, let's just issue vouchers for everything and everything will be cheaper! Better yet. issue big enough vouchers and everything will be free!
Is this a great country, or what?
It's also environmentally unsound to exchange an existing working vehicle for a brand new vehicle, a cost that is never figured into these kind of exchanges.
YES YES YES! Hi Robert Frank, haven't seen you in almost 10 years. Great great post. STepper, he's not saying every $4500 voucher will lead to production of a $25000 car, it's an example. Someone who sells their car for $4500 will most likely buy a new car, unless it was a spare car or he's going to start riding his bike, so if he spends $25000 (obviously $20500 would come out of his pocket) it will add a lot to the value added chain. But if he was going to spend it on something else there will be some substitution, but car manufacturing has huge multiplier effects.
Anyway, Prof. Frank's suggestions are great. For concerns about the poor suffering from the gas tax, just give them some subsidies, same with trucking companies and so on. The important thing is to give people the right incentives. A great addition to this would be to replace the payroll tax with a carbon tax (see www.getamericaworking.org), which would do even more to reduce unemployment and cut emissions, but that would take a while to get passed.
Prof. Frank, I hope to see you here more often! It's entertaining to have amateur political scientists discuss economic policies (no offense, Nate), but much more enlightening to have a real economist doing so.
Well, the gas tax, like carbon offsets, migh be structured to work as a voucher/rebate program where everyone gets a rebate to offset their gas tax. Those who consume less gas get more benefit, while those who consume "too much" gas get taxed.
Obviously, there's lot of wiggle room in the numbers, but that's the general idea. Not to just charge everyone more, but to promote a shift in consumption, as well as provide a financing mechanism for transportation and other improvements which lower oil consumption.
That could also be part of the rational for diminishing returns in the vehicle swap vouchers: high MPG vehicles would glean the owners a better value in their gas tax rebates, providing a long term financial incentive.
From where I sit, they might need to be a LITTLE more careful with the proposal. As I read it, it has no provisions for how LONG a person must have owned said clunker. Since I heard about this proposal, I have seriously considered buying a clunker for $2000 so I can trade it in for $4500 towards a car I would want a few months later. Can't beat a 125% return.
Lutton: I have a fundamental problem with this "shift in consumption" outlook. Ok, yes - if the driver is in a place where they could potentially take public transit but *choose* to drive, yes, we can alter habits. But what about the vast majority of other cases, where
- the public transit is already at or beyond capacity
- the public transit is underfunded and thus doesn't provide convenient timely transit suitable to the person
- there IS no public transit
- the layout of the town/city makes it impossible to walk anywhere
- the layout of the town/city does not provide adequate bike paths to switch to non-motored vehicles
And a dozen of other impediments to a shift in driving habits I'm forgetting right now. Any push away from gasoline needs to be pushing people towards an alternative, and those alternatives are not numerous enough yet to sustain the kind of push needed to permanently improve American energy consumption patterns. Fine, let there be 'excessive gas' tax - but keep in mind all the people who have no choice *but* to use the gas, on account of living in rural areas, having driving-intensive work, or just plain living in cities without public transit. It's easy to mock people for driving to the gym, but what else is there to do when the gym, the mall, the grocery store and your house are all several highway miles apart?
City layouts are not a problem that can be solved in several years. It'll take generations. Neither will small and medium-sized townships be acquiring public transit, in all likelihood. The only aspect of driving that can be improved right this minute is mileage, and that's what we need to focus on *right now*, with future plans to improve bike paths & encourage bike ownership, as well as boost in public transit funds.
A $4,500 voucher that leads to production of an additional $25,000 car would generate $25,000 of additional income along the value added chain, which in turn would generate more than enough tax revenue to pay for the voucher.This logic doesn't work. Sure, I spent an additional $20,500 on a car. But that money could have otherwise been spent on something else, so your tax gain from this could be as low as taxrate*$4,500.
Is there any reason why we need to limit the program to cars less than 18mpg? My girlfriend would love to trade in the 10 year old V6 sedan she inherited from her dad (19.6 mpg, according to EPA) for something that gets 30 mpg or better. I doubt there's any more benefit in getting someone to go from 18 mpg to 25 mpg than there is to get someone to go from 20mpg to 30mpg (or even 30mpg to 40mpg). I think the best voucher systems would be purely on the mpg gained.
@ AxmxZ
Any push away from gasoline needs to be pushing people towards an alternative, and those alternatives are not numerous enough yet to sustain the kind of push needed to permanently improve American energy consumption patterns.
There's a bit of "which came first, the chicken or the egg" in that calculus. In a market society, the pressure to create an alternative increases the likelihood that viable alternatives are developed. Nevertheless, I tend to agree that a gas tax (especially in the midst of a recession) is political suicide. As the silly "death tax" debate shows, opponents can get a lot of mileage by railing against tax increases even with people who aren't affected by the tax.
@AxmxZ
you said>>Lutton: I have a fundamental problem with this "shift in consumption" outlook. ...if the driver is in a place where they could potentially take public transit...
Under a properly worked system, people would receive benefit from better performing vehicles, as well as public transit.
If you drive a vehicle that gets poor milage, or you drive an excessive number of miles, you'll pay more in taxes than you'll receive in a rebate.
But if you drive a better performing car or fewer miles, you'll get more in a rebate than the gas tax will cost.
And this whole discussion is taking place because of a program designed to assist people getting higher MPG vehiles.
I certainly don't mean that everyone should just get rid of their car and take the bus or SUPERTRAIN. If you can, and choose to do so, you may glean the most benefit. But even moderate changes in habits can be encouraged within such a system.
But the devil is in the details. I don't know what the exact numbers would be in a tax per gallon or a quaterly or annual rebate or tax credit.
I think ideally you'd initally set up the system so a large number of people came up pretty close to where they were before, and change the rates over time, plus continue enducements to acquire better performing vehicles.
It shouldn't be zero-sum, but in the begining, it should probably be pretty close.
Lutton: One wonders what the calculus of optimization is for MPG. For instance: is anyone looking at vehicle weight? I know people who love the idea of a tiny Smart car but don't consider them safe b/c of the larger vehicles on the road. I wonder if very lightweight super-performers might start to appear on the road at faster rates once average mass of cars on the road drops below a certain weight threshold... I think that might also lead to a spike in efficiency.
Lex of the Financial Times thinks Cash for Clunkers is idiotic. http://bit.ly/GfaSj
Its hard to disagree
How about cash for clunkers...
to get a scooter, a transit pass, a cargo bike...
something that bends the curve in a more significant way than another conventional vehicle in the twilight of their useful technological life.
FD: If the math checks out, then yeah, crap. I'm not sure what to make of this sentence though:
"Average fuel economy requirements are about 27 mpg so many purchases would drag the US average lower."
How can improving fleet mileage drag the US average lower? It may not measure up to requirements, but it's still an improvement, even if it's not a cost-effective one. I feel like I'm missing his point.
As someone who just ordered up a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybid (EPA 41, 36) and will trade in a 13 year old Ford Taurus, I stand to gain nothing from the clunker bill because my old car falls just above the 18 mpg baseline that's being considered.
Of course, I do get a credit for the hybrid (as do others, until the phase-out of that is completed), so I can't complain too much, but that credit is far smaller than the clunker bill would provide (were I eligible).
I agree with Robt Frank that it would make a lot more sense to base the clunker incentive on the differential in mpg (or emissions, as he suggests). As it now stands, one could get the whole clunker bonus for just a 4 mpg increase from 18 to 22. Better to graduate it, with, say, $200 for every mpg improvement, assuming a minimum of a 4 mpg gain. If that were true in my case, with my new purchase I would go from 19 mpg (old car) to 40 mpg (new car), starting with $200 at 23 mpg and then 17 more increments of $200, thus "earning" a $3,600 credit.
I'm a little wary of using emissions as a basis, because in reality that depends a whole not on the condition and upkeep of the current car. In fact, my 1997 Taurus probably not only doesn't get the rated 19 mpg in reality but it's a real detriment to the environment.
Seems like a really strangely designed bill. Why not just take the improvement in MPG and multiply it by a dollar amount, say $500?
My overwhelming sentiment is that public funds should be spent on public transport, conservation, and clean energy infrastructure, not cars. And certainly not 22 mpg cars or 20 mpg trucks.
That said, we should keep in mind that unless the mpg requirements are by CAFE, the consumer EPA fuel economy numbers have been driven downward by more demanding tests. So the improvement may actually be somewhat better than a cursory ratio suggests. Not much, and not nearly enough. But a little.
The FT op-ed FD recommended was idiotic. Replacing cars that get 18 mpg with cars that get 22 mpg will obviously raise the average, now lower it. And his argument that the plan is regressive is idiotic too. If most people who own the clunkers are poor, then they are the ones who will benefit from the plan. They can get a much improved car for their $3500 voucher. I found 2000 Ford Escorts for $2000 on cars.com - they get 25 mpg. For $4500 you can get a 2000 Ford Mustang, or a 2004 Ford Focus (28 mpg). How is it regressive to let people take their clunkers that are probably worth less than $1000 and replace them with almost-new cars that will also save them money on gas?
It will be interesting to see what is the required holding period for the purchase of the clunker. If it is short with respect to the duration of the rebate (currently proposed at 120days), then this bill might drive up the price of used cars as poor mileage cars will be "assigned" a monetary value of $3500, regardless of their market worth today. This has the possibility of hurting low-income families as the used car market prices get pushed up.
I hope somebody has thought out all the unintended consequences.
There's more to emissions than just miles per gallon!! In Europe (at least the Netherlands), taxing and incentives also work on other emission standards such as NOx, CO2 and PM (particulate matter)(in g/km). Saying that going from 20 to 28mpg "only" gains you $1000 in extra rebates, doesn't take into account any other emissions.
I believe the German rebate program simply encourages you to buy any new car, probably understanding that a 10-yr old 18mpg car is much more polluting than a brand-new 18mpg car in terms of CO2, NOx and PM.
@Zack:
It's just not true that 30mpg to 40mpg is worth as much as 18 to 25. Thinking about mileage in terms of gallons per 10,000 miles (approximate average consumer annual uusage) makes it more clear.
18mpg is 555 gp10kmi
25mpg is 400 gp10kmi
30mpg is 333 gp10kmi
40mpg is 250 gp10kmi
50mpg is 200 gp10kmi
So in fact, the biggest gains are to be had from relatively small improvements at the most wasteful end of the scale. Getting everyone who isn't continually and usefully hauling heavy equipment or multiple passengers out of trucks and SUVs getting 10-15mpg and into lighter trucks and cars getting 25-30mpg is going to make a much larger difference in total carbon output and petroleum usage than getting everyone currently driving focuses or accords to start driving hybrids.
I also can't make the numbers work on cash-for-clunkers. I hope they're not thinking that this saves GM jobs, because GM doesn't make fuel efficient cars. I think there are far simpler ways to improve the fleet efficiency. I'd love to see government subsidies for regular oil changes and proper tire inflation, which according to convention wisdom could provide a 20% boost across the spectrum.
I'd love to see a debate over a revenue-neutral gas tax. Maybe 50 cents per gallon, and at the end of the year the money raised is evenly returned to every registered car in the country. So it's not tied to a debate about highway infrastructure or public transit, its just about the degree to which you are less wasteful than the average driver, and the incentives for improving your vehicle or leaving it in the driveway. I think that the average person might accept the argument that they could make money if they made the right decisions, and that if everyone was making the right decisions, then our dependence on (and consequently the price of) foreign oil drops.
First, a general comment:
If you want to prorate it by improvement, the relevant factor is not mpg, but gpm, gallons per mile. For example, improving a car from 18 to 25 mpg has the same effect as improving from 20 to 29 mpg, or 30 to 56 mpg, or 64 mpg to infinity. Each of these improvements represents a decrease of about 0.0156 gallons per mile. If you offer me an incentive per unit mpg, I'd immediately replace my car with a bike and then rake in infinite rewards (some of which would go to purchasing a limo).
Secondly, there are many factors ignored in the analysis. Sure, clunkers use lots of gas, but buying new things all the time also produces lots of greenhouse gases. We already live in a throwaway society; indeed, that is one of the actions that is a main CAUSE of our environmental problems. Encouraging it in the name of going green is disingenuous.
Another factor is the assumption that this plan feeds more money into the economy. As has already been pointed out, the money that is fed into the economy might well subtract from other expenses. Another point is that some people might be about to buy a car any way. If I was planning to buy a car now, the money was already going there.
Another unintended consequence is that there will suddenly be many gas guzzlers on the market. Can I go on the market and find the oldest, clunkiest one that exists (I don't care if it works or not), purchase it for $3000, and then turn around and cash it in as a $4500 tax credit for a new fuel-efficient car?
As a final note, it is a bit frustrating that this program rewards those who bought big cars when it was fashionable. Why should we reward those who caused the problem? Can I also get a tax credit if I stop beating my wife?
So basically we're going to REWARD people who bought Hummers and giant SUV's, not people who bought smaller, more efficient vehicles.
What kind of sense does that make???!
I can thing of a LOT better ways to spend $4,500 bucks than that! For example, how about giving people $4,500 to convert their vehicles to natural gas?
@michaelsullivan
Good point. We really should stop using MPG and use GPM, or gallons per x number of miles. In Europe, liters/100km is the standard.
ecarlson & Sacto Joe: It's distasteful to be rewarding unwise purchases, but the SUVs need to be taken off the road somehow. I'm okay with the credit towards purchase of new smaller mroe efficient cars by SUV owners if the bloody things either get scrapped or put to some decent use... not sure what that might be, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
Not all economic activity is positive, even in a recession. The money is not free. Otherwise, we would find it worthwhile to go around destroying our own infrastructure, which is not the way to increase a nation's wealth.
This is quite probably the best idea I've ever read on this web site. One can quibble a little with how to optimize the details, but this is a GREAT idea!
I think I'm going to stop visiting this website until that gross anti-factory farm "meat" add goes away. I get the message. I don't eat factory farm meat. Stop trying to gross me out. Lame.
I live in California, drive a 1981 Volvo and I can assure that it isn't exempt from emissions standards. It gets smogged every two years and the emissions levels it has to meet have become more stringent over time. When the original emissions laws were put in place over 30 years ago, cars over 15 years old were exempt but a car that was subject to an emission standard when the original law came into force is still subject to a standard. The 15 years isn't floating.
If congress really wanted to encourage people to buy more efficient cars, then they'd make a progressive incentive, that goes up, the more efficient the car is... maybe start at $1000 for 30 mpg, and add another $1000 for each additional 5 or 10 mpg...
150mpg? cool... you get $13K!
actually though, I really liked the carbon eating bacteria idea from University of Arizona that i saw advertised on the front page of Daily Kos... the bacteria is 100 times more efficient at converting carbon dioxide and sunlight into diesel fuel as the next most efficient biofuel alternative.
if we can turn this into a carbon cycle, removing just as much as we add to the atmosphere, then we wouldn't really have so many worries anymore, once we got levels under control.
Off-topic, but...
Interesting poll numbers here…
While Nancy Pelosi is currently taking an unpopularity bath, her Republican counterparts have been wallowing deep in negativity for some time. Mitch McConnell, leader of the Grabby Old Party in the Senate, garners the top spot in terms of approval with 22%. (That’s less than ¼ of those polled, folks.) That squeaks by the GOP as a whole, of which 20% (one in five) of adults look upon favorably, but light years ahead of John Boehner, Republican strongman in the House, who manages to eke out only a 15% approval rating. The worst rating in the entire poll goes to the GOP in Congress—13% of adults (one in eight) think they’re doing a good job, while 73% think they stink.
Will the numbers for the GOP change? Doubtful. Unless McConnell figures out a way to keep from looking like he just swallowed vinegar and Boehner stops coming across like a small-potatoes used-car salesman (don’t think that’s possible) the Republican brand will continue to tarnish.
Sacto Joe...
Converting a car from burning gasoline to natural gas does nothing for the carbon cycle. Natural gas is also a hydrocarbon, and when burned produces CO2.
Pragmatus:
Ever hear of the Pickens Plan?
Why don't we just build some more railroads?
Sacto Joe...
Yes, but the Pickens Plan's focus is on weaning the US from foreign hydrocarbons. He envisions cars running on natural gas, of which there is an untapped abundance in the US, rather that gasoline distilled from oil that comes principally from the Middle East.
AFAIK Pickens does not address the carbon issue in his plan.
@John from Taos:
You might want to look up the meaning of the word, "fascist." It doesn't mean what you probably think it means.
wv: feelficu: touch the rubber plant
@Pragmatus:
Converting a car from burning gasoline to natural gas does nothing for the carbon cycle. Natural gas is also a hydrocarbon, and when burned produces CO2.
But it doesn't produce as much. Hydrocarbons are not created equal, and methane is the least greenhousy of the bunch.
Here's Wiki on the topic.
Matt...
Yes, that is true, but when the difference is 139 pounds of carbon dioxide per BTU (liquified petroleum gas, which is how vehicles would be run) as opposed to 156 pounds (gasoline) then it's like the KGB saying "Last month we killed only 139 people instead of our usual 156".
:)
@STepper and Alex
I don't think you should be dismissive of the statement that the vouchers would pay for themselves. This statement is nonsense in an economy at capacity, but it in the current economy the vouchers would not divert economic activity, they would create it.
First, look at the United States as a closed system. With the vouchers, people who would otherwise be idle are economically active. Do they create something of lasting value? Yes. Do we send capital out of the country as a result? No. (Or at least the answer is "no" as I understand the program.) That means that the vouchers would have a net positive economic effect, but only because the workers would otherwise be idle.
Now look at the Government's outlays and revenues (both state and federal). This is trickier, and I'm skeptical, but I'm not dismissive---not at all. The income of the workers (throughout the production chain) is perhaps $12,000. The marginal income tax on that is perhaps $3,000. These amounts are similar to the Government expense for the voucher. Again this line of reasoning only works because the workers would otherwise be idle. There are clearly secondary effects where the Government avoids outlays (Unemployment benefits, assumption of pensions, etc.)
@Tirian
The advantage of vouchers over increasing the CAFE standards is that the vouchers bring benefits now, when our economy is under capacity. Increasing CAFE standards kicks in later, potentially diverting economic activity instead of merely creating the activity.
Some notes from Germany:
Yes we did it (just for cars older then 10 years), and I'm still not convinced if its a good thing or not.
Our plan to get the old cars of the road was not to increase the supply of old vehicles but to scrape. So the guys owning scrape yards made a nickle by recyling the raw materials. The whole value chain complex worked here in Germany with the value added tax. So if the new car was above 13000€ the support by the goverment would equal the tax gained (2500€/19% VAT).
What I have a problem with is that first the demand for new cars is concentrated into a small time frame. And new poll show here in Germany that those people who bought a new car were planning to do it the next year anyway. So rest of the world: please start buying german cars again.
Second, the cars who were scraped were totally functional, so we destroyed a whole lot of products which were in usable condition. That I find just disturbing.
Third those sold cars were only produced here in germany, I belive that about 50% of the cars were produced by non german producers. On the other Hand no trouble wih the WTO and European Commission (the free market thing). Which is a positive thing as well besides keeping a few people in their jobs. The question is for how long.
@mathrec:
You're entirely correct about CAFE standards. They're better than nothing, but their effect is slow. Not only that, but as CAFE standards came into play in the US, average driving miles increased--so the country didn't use less gasoline, we simply took advantage of the relative inexpense of driving to go farther, faster, more often.
Impose a $2-dollar tax per gallon on gasoline (and a similar tax on other fossil fuels), and you'll see Americans carpooling, bicycling, taking public transportation, turning the thermostat down in the winter...in short, you'll see them conserving.
I understand that a BTU Tax is a political Third Rail...butt it would be an excellent way to use market forces to drive good public policy.
Tirian said:
I'd love to see a debate over a revenue-neutral gas tax. Maybe 50 cents per gallon, and at the end of the year the money raised is evenly returned to every registered car in the country.
Wouldn't this encourage people to buy lots of clunkers and leave them in the driveway?
Wouldn't this encourage people to buy lots of clunkers and leave them in the driveway?Not people in most states, where having a license plate means that you have some basic level of third-party liability insurance that would cost more per year than any potential gas tax rebate AFAICT. I suppose one would want to have some sort of similar earnestness test for the few states that don't have compulsory insurance.
One unconsidered issue: I've got a 1994 Ford Explorer that I've been wanting to replace with a small, fuel-efficient passenger car. Now I have a strong incentive to hold off on doing that until some cash for clunkers bill passes and comes into effect. Net effect: anticipated future drop in price kills current demand for new cars.
Good "High School Level" idea. In short, a $4500.00 a head boondoggle. Looks good, feels good, accomplished nest to nothing. Since the typical US "family car"costs about fice times the clunker voucher amount, AND credit is extremely hard to get (in other words, bankers are actually acting like most bankers used to), how will this help anyone who doesn't live in an urban environment that basically hasn't existed in 20-30 years? (I recall living in a mid-sized town and being able to walk about 3-1/2 -- 4 miles in a day and take care of all my monthly bill paying. And walking about 12 blocks round trip for groceries and the pharmacy.) Please apppreciate that the same people who have lost houses to foreclosure won't be able to afford the payments for a new car and higher fuel taxes. Most folks don't figure carbon footprints, they figure gas costs. To effectively reduce the personal carbon footprint of the average American would require massive changes to existing infrastructure, social norms, and personal habits. That isn't going to happen with the gesture of a voucher for the down payment on a new car.
A possibility I advocate would be to allow people to claim "Cash for Clunkers" money to convert their gas car to a battery electric vehicles. There are several companies that sell kits to accomplish this (in the $3-6000 range) and even some companies that will do the conversion work for you (for about $8-14k, depending). This would accomplish the same purpose as getting older, more polluting vehicles off the road, but without the energy costs of scrapping a whole vehicle (just the engine, fuel tank and exhaust system would have to be dealt with).
Now, this is not a magic bullet solution since it's only really practical for cars or light trucks of 4000 pounds or less and people may have driving needs that would preclude a car with a range of 30-50 miles, or they would not have the means to easily plug in a car for charging. However, a significant majority of daily driving fits within that range, and people who convert would also have the option of upgrading their battery packs at a later date. It could be an important part of our overall energy policy.
I have no car payment.
Why would I want to trade in my old car that runs very well for a new one with a $200 to $300 payment? I'd love to have a more efficient car, just can't afford it.
A possibility I advocate would be to allow people to claim "Cash for Clunkers" money to convert their gas car to a battery electric vehicles.Now that is an idea I like.
Of course we would go solar if we could afford it too, just not willing to take out a loan to do it.
http://aceee.org/press/0905scrappage.html
Y'all Pointy Heads are missin the obvious solution...Mandate that the voucher be spent on a motorcycle...$4,500 will get you a pretty decent used one, and even the least fuel efficient get 40mpg... Sure, our cities will look like 1969 Saigon, but thats not a totally bad thing...
OK, but its as stupid as the whole idea,
And Jay, sorry to be the one to tell ya there's no Santa Claus, but when you plug in your electric car to recharge the batteries, there's not little elves inside the wall, somewhere, far away, atoms are bein split, coal burned, turbines spinnin... so you haven't really helped the carbon footprint...its like when you fart and leave the room...
My 94 Camaro gets 24mpg...
How do we handle the unpleasant fact that the manufacture of vehicles has significant environmental costs? So when you get rid of one car in order to get a more fuel efficient car, you are in fact buying something which has already caused damage and will cause further damage because it will have to be replaced by yet another new car on the lot.
One clarification that is needed:
Will the credit go only to people who have cars that - upon the date of their purchase - were ORIGINALLY below 18 mpg... or those whose current performance is below 18 mpg assuming the car is tuned, the air filter is cleaned, and the tires are properly inflated. I ask because the average longevity of a car in America today is approaching 18 years... and a 15 year old car simply will not get the mileage it did when it first drove off the lot (especially if it has been in a minor accident).
If you mathematically depriciate the mileage of a vehicle based on its age - that will probably encourage a LOT more people to jump on this incentive. However, as the bill is currently written, there is no assurance that a driver will chose a 25,000 dollar car. If the government chips in 4500, and a person trades their old junker car in (with a 500 dollar dealer trade-in incentive) for a Toyota Yaris or a Honda Fit - you've effectively given a 4500 dollar subsidy to cause a total of only 10,500 dollars in economic transactions along the development chain - much of which takes place in another country... All the sudden you DO NOT have a situation where the subsidy will pay for itself.
However, for those that are concerned by the environmental cost of new production... that issue isn't really much of a concern. It takes the energy equivilant of less than 1000 gallons of gasoline to produce a prius, and far less to produce an efficient compact car.
Assuming ~700-800 gallons of gasoline need to be saved to "pay off" the carbon debt of new purchase (at least for mid-sized cars... hybrids use much more energy, and plug-in hybrids are absurd... Large cars and fuel-sucking-pigs (SUV's) won't really be stimulated), and the fact that the average car is driven ~15,000 miles/year, it will take ~2 years to "pay down" the carbon debt of the new car costs if a driver trades in a car that gets 18 mpg for one that gets 28 mpg. It would take only ~1 year to "pay down" the manufacturing carbon debt if a driver trades in a big SUV that gets 10 mpg for a smaller SUV that gets 20 mpg...
In summary - I can imagine this will stimulate a lot of people with old clunkers (especially if the mpg rating is depreciated based on age) to buy new cars... but there's no way the economic stimulation will pay the cost of the incentive back... However, this is a good environmental move.
I agree that pro-rating the subsidy based on the exact gallons/mile ratio would be better environmentally... but that would also not pay back the costs.
You should be able to claim this credit if you can prove you sold your car and switched to cycling, like I and many of my colleagues have done over the past three or four years. I understand that this is primarily about stimulating demand for the auto industry, but bikes are clean, efficient, healthy, and perfect for the 75 percent of American people who live less than ten miles from their workplace. Why should you not get the credit if you just stop driving altogther?
IMO, the US auto indiustry is doomed to fail completely if we do not implement a large gasoline tax - there is simply not enough incentive for Americans to buy snmaller, more efficient cars. In other major auto markets of the world (Europe, Japan/Korea, perhaps n China), the average price of a gallon of gas is significantly higher. Thus, automakers from those regions have incentives to build more efficient cars, as that is what the market demands.
Here the incentives are reversed. We have ridiculous gas prices more comparable to Venezuela and Kuwait, oil producering nations, than other industrialized oil consuming nations.
Someone much wiser than me once said that you tax the behaviors you want to minimize or reduce. Cheap gas must end here if US automakers are ever to get serious about efficiency.
I don't blame Detroit entirely for their short-sighted focus on trucks/SUVs: Uncle Sam has set the stage for that with low gas taxes, and it is imperative we address that NOW.
If you don't have your vehicle's manual handy and want to figure out what your vehicle's combined gas mileage is, the government has a free site where you can plug in your year, make and model to get your car's info. It is at: http://www.fueleconomy.gov
If you want to follow the latest news on the Cash for Clunkers legislation, I found a site that lets you sign up for an alert and also has the latest news info. It is at: Cash For Clunkers
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