4.14.2009

Is Norm Coleman Getting His Money's Worth?

Norm Coleman's already-slim chances of prevailing in the election contest in Minnesota have now entered Calista Flockhart territory today after a Minnesota panel ruled that Al Franken has in fact won the election. See Rick Hasen for a cogent legal analysis of the issues at hand and the current status of the case.

Coleman has already announced that he will appeal to the Minnesota Supreme Court, and has also implied ta he would appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Because Minnesota will not issue an election certificate until the Minnesota Supreme Court has either ruled on Coleman's appeal or decided not to hear it, and the Republicans will probably filibuster Franken until he has such a certificate in place, this will probably delay his ascension to the Senate for several more weeks.

One interesting question is how much it is costing Coleman to continue to pursue his case. Let's make some quick and dirty guesses: Coleman is paying 5 attorneys, who are billing at a somewhat discounted rate of $500 apiece for 50 hours worth of work per week. That works out to $125,000 per week, or $17,857 per day, in legal fees.

Is this a decent estimate of Coleman's legal bills? I actually think it might be. MinnPost.com reported that in a 37-day period from November 25th through December 31 of last year, Al Franken incurred $650,923 in legal expenses. That works out to $17,593 per day, almost exactly matching our estimate of Coleman's bills. Why, by the way, are we using Franken's legal fees to estimate Coleman's legal expenses and not Coleman's themselves? Because Coleman's most recent FEC filing did not include any fees paid to Tony Trimble, one of his leading attorneys, and the payments disclosed to his other attorneys were even-numbered amounts that appear to reflect some sort of up-front fees rather than the result of hourly billing. In other words, Franken's figures seem much more complete, and are probably a better reflection of the costs that Coleman will eventually be accountable for.

Apart from his legal operations, Coleman incurs certain other expenses in keeping his campaign operational -- for example, hiring consultants, a PR staff, programmers to maintain his website, people to solicit and process contributions, etc. Let's say that this relatively bare-bones operation is equivalent to what a campaign committee might spend in its very early days before it had begun active campaigning. In the three months between July and September 2007, which qualifies as such a period, the Coleman campaign spent $289,540, which is equal to $3,147 per day or $22,030 per week.

So the cost to Coleman of continuing to fighting his legal battle is probably something like this:

Legal Fees  $17,593/day   =   $123,151/week
Other Fees $ 3,147/day = $ 22,030/week
============================================
Total $20,740/day = $145,181/week
That is, about $20,000 per day or $145,000 per week. Let's say the Minnesota Supreme Court will take six weeks to hear the appeal; that would translate into another $871,086 in expenses for him.

There are two benefits to Coleman in continuing to press his case. Firstly, there is a small chance that he will prevail. Secondly, so long as he delays the state from issuing an election certificate, he keeps Al Franken out of the Senate. Given the current contours of the Senate, merely preventing Franken from voting is really every bit as good to Republicans as having Coleman voting in his place.

OpenSecrets.org reports that Coleman spent $21,821,755 in an effort to win a six-year term in the Senate. Al Franken, incidentally, spent almost exactly as much. $21,821,755 for a six-year term works out to $9,957 per day; this is the approximate cost of a Seante seat in Minnesota. If you accept my hypothesis that preventing Franken from being seated is roughly as good an outcome to Coleman as being seated himself, blocking Franken for six additional weeks is worth about $419,649 to Norm Coleman.

However, we estimated that Coleman will incur $871,086 in legal and other bills to continue pressing his case for six more weeks. If we deduct out the $419,649 benefit of blocking Franken's seating, that leaves an additional $451,437 for Coleman to cover.

In order for Coleman to get value for that $451,437, he needs to have some chance of actually prevailing in his election lawsuit. Recall that Coleman was willing to invest $21,821,755 to win a six-year term. If Coleman eventually wins in Minnesota, his term will be slightly less than six years -- more like 5 and 7/12 years if he were somehow actually seated by June 1st. After discounting for the time that has already expired from the term, we estimate that this is worth $20,306,355 to Coleman.

So Coleman is gambling $451,437 for a chance to win $20,306,355. This is a good bet for him, so long as his chances of eventually being seated are at least 2.2%.

Are Coleman's chances in fact that high? In my opinion, they are not. This is because Coleman faces two and probably three hurdles to eventually being seated. The first hurdle is that either the Minnesota Supreme Court or the U.S. Supreme Court must decide to hear the case and then rule in his favor. From reading Hasen and other legal experts, the chances of this appear to be fairly low, although certainly not impossible. The second and more problematic hurdle is that even if Coleman wins some sort of remedy from the courts, it will not necessarily result in his victory. On the contrary, I think it is quite unlikely to result in his victory, because most of Coleman's suggested remedies will involve counting more ballots, and counting more ballots will probably just increase Franken's lead.

The third hurdle is the United States Senate, which is ultimately responsible for adjudicating election contests. Most of the scenarios in which Coleman would ultimately be declared the victor by the courts involve some fairly radical case law, such as the Court deciding that the entire recount and absentee-ballot counting process was illegitimate and reverting to the Election Night result, or authorizing the counting of additional absentee ballots only from Coleman's list but not from Franken's. I don't see how these things are likely to happen, but if they did, the Democratic-controlled Senate would surely be very unhappy about it. The best-case scenario for Coleman, then, might not be being seated immediately, but rather triggering some sort of impasse, at which point the Senate might declare a re-vote. I don't know what Coleman's odds might be of prevailing in a re-vote, but given that his PR operation has lost momentum as Franken has spent more and more days with an ostensible lead, they are probably not greater than 50:50.

My guess is that Coleman's chances of clearing all three hurdles and eventually being seated (probably following a re-vote) are probably not more than 1-in-100, and might be more like 1-in-1,000 or even longer, which would not be enough to warrant his continuing to press his case. Then again, many of the assumptions that I've made here are rather crude; a reasonable man could easily reach a different conclusion.

Also, it's possible that we've overstated the magnitude of Coleman's legal bills. Tony Trimble, Coleman's lead counsel, has donated tens of thousands of dollars to Republican candidates over the years and might be personally vested in the case. Although as I understand federal elections law, he must still charge Coleman an arm's-length rate for his services less they constitute an in-kind contribution, there are a wide variety of billing rates and structures that he could reasonably justify. Another option that might make sense for Coleman is to deliberately do a cheap-o/half-assed job of continuing to press his case, which might further reduce his chances of actually prevailing, but would nevertheless prevent Franken from being seated in the interim.

Finally, Coleman may still be playing with house money; his campaign committee had about $2 million in cash on hand as of December 31 and he has undoubtedly raised a bit more since then. The more salient question may be whether Coleman is making better use of his remaining campaign funds by continuing to press his legal case rather than preserving them for some future election (which is a perfectly legitimate use of such monies).

It's actually very rare for a sitting senator to lose an election and then to mount some sort of a political comeback -- for some reason, losing seems to be more devastating to senators than it is to governors, representatives, or presidential candidates. And Coleman's track record is particularly unimpressive; he's been elected to national office just once, in 2002, in what was an extremely good year for Republicans and then only after his opponent died. Moreover, it's not clear when Coleman might have another opening. Minnesota's other senator, Amy Klobuchar, is not up for re-election until 2012 and is currently rather popular. Tim Pawlenty appears more likely than not to seek a third term and Coleman is surely not going to try and primary him. Nor does Coleman have any realistic chance of appearing on a presidential ticket. His best bet might be to wait until 2014, when Franken would be up for re-election, but six years is a lifetime in politics. Although Coleman's chances of prevailing in his legal case are not very strong, they may be better than his next-best alternatives.

80 comments

Colin said...

First

rdmtimp said...

"His best bet might be to wait until 2012, when Franken would be up for re-election, but six years is a long time to wait. "

Um... wouldn't Franken's term run out in 2014?

Ander said...

Yes, I think you did the math wrong on that one... Franken would be up for reelection in 2014.

Also, I wish Coleman would just concede. I'm from Minnesota, and sick of not having a second voice in the Senate.

Vote said...

Why is it impossible to link to the actual court documents instead of linking to a legal blog that can't proof read?

Here is the 68 page ruling by the ECC Tribunal [PDF]Here are my thoughts and analysis of the court's document.The court fees are irrelevant to everything; neither campaign gives a crap about even a million dollars. If you truly believe in what you are doing, money is immaterial.

Peter said...

This is so hypothetical and abstract...It sure sounds like you wrote it in a sleep deprived state in the middle of the night.

Which is exactly how I'm feeling while reading it, so it makes perfect sense to me.

Crazy Stuff

Geoff Johnson said...

I'm not sure the numbers, dollars, and odds matter all that much here. If Coleman is a relatively rational person, he recognizes that he is not going to win this election. The entire game at this point is delaying the date at which Franken takes his seat (which is obviously a really, really big deal for national politics and the Obama agenda). The Minnesota Supremes (assuming we go there, and I think we will - for one thing the liberal, but Coleman backing, Star Tribune has already editorialized in favor of that) will not in any way rule for Norm. After that one of two things will happen:

1) The governor and Sec of State will issue an election certificate for Franken (either because of an order from the Supremes, popular pressure, or both - obviously the Democratic Sec of State will be happy to do it regardless, the GOP governor will not).
2) Gov. Pawlenty will refuse to certify Franken because he does not want to anger national Republicans and because he does not feel legally and/or politically forced to do so.

If it's number 1, which I think is more likely, then I'm pretty sure we're done. Any appeal would happen while Franken was already seated in the Senate and would be a waste of time and money for the GOP and politically damaging for Coleman. If it's number 2 then the appeals go on as long as possible in the federal courts, unless Coleman bails on the national GOP in an effort to save his future political career, such as it is, in Minnesota (though I think it's more likely that Norm soldiers on for the party as long as possible).

I just don't think the calculation here relates to money or the kinds of odds one considers when betting a bunch of money on a long-shot "river" card in a big Texas Hold 'Em hand (which is sort of what your post made me think of). This is about raw politics in the U.S. Senate. So long as Coleman continuing the appeals process keeps Franken from taking the MN Senate seat it goes on and there will be money to pay for it. Once it doesn't then it's done, because for the GOP this is about making things difficult for Obama and nothing more.

bottlcaps said...

As the prevailing party, would not Mr. Franken asks for court costs AND legal fees? In addition, as the prevailing party would not Mr. Franken ask the court for a writ demanding Pawlenty sign the certificate. State law says a certificate may be issued when the State courts have heard the case. Well, the State court HAVE heard the case and has rendered it's decision. An APPEAL to the Supreme Court is just that; an "Appeal". The case and it's facts have been determined in Franken's favor and the appeal process should not be a detriment to him, that's why an appeal bond is usually asked for in monetary awards. Could not an "Appeal certificate" be issue to Franken and then stayed until the Supreme Court determined if it is to be heard? Would not Coleman's lawyers have to ask the Minnesota Supreme Court to NOT issue a writ to Franken, as is his right as the prevailing party and not by just asking for an appeal to be heard. I imagine that the pleading to the Supreme Court would include such pleadings, but it has to be asked for by Coleman's attorney's.

Can anyone out there illuminate me on this point of appellate law?

Geoff Johnson said...

To bottlcaps, I'm no lawyer but I know the Minnesota Supreme Court previously said (I think just going off of existing state law) that no election certificate can be issued until "state courts have finally decided the election contest." I think the general read on that (even from Democrats) is that it means if this gets appealed to the state Supremes, then the state courts have not "finally decided" and thus no certificate.

So if Coleman appeals to the MN high court, no election certificate for Franken until the Supremes give their decision. I'm pretty sure that's not controversial.

Douglas said...

Senators don't run for lower office often (only Claude Pepper and James Wolcott Wadsworth in the last century for the House, and only a few more times for governors) because, like Arjun said on DailyKos yesterday, 'the office is probably the most powerful elected office in the nation short of the Presidency, particularly given the absence of term limits (which frequently constrain state governors).'

John Baldacci opens parking lots. Olympia Snowe was the deciding vote on stimulus. If you were an insane narcissist -- and to get that far in politics, you HAVE to be -- then which is more desirable?

VegnaBlitz said...

Not sure if I agree with your cost/benefit analysis. For Republicans, keeping Franken out of the senate is worth far more than $10,000 per day. The cost of something isn't necessarily its worth, and the cost of something last fall isn't necessarily the value of something this spring.

If Franken was the one vote needed for a major Obama proposal to break a filibuster...How much would it be worth to the Republicans to keep Franken out? Of course, just having Franken in the senate would change the dynamics. Only one Republican would need to cross the line, instead of two. I remember you writing an article saying that it would be harder for one Republican to do it alone, but I think the opposite would be true. One Republican would have all of that power. Look at Snowe, Collins, etc. relish in it!

AaronG said...

To Bottlecaps:
I can't help you with MN election law, but in most U.S. courts both sides bear their own legal fees at the trial level, though costs (which are usually minimal compared to fees) are recoverable. However, on appeal the appellate court generally has discretion to award legal fees and costs to the winner.

Max said...

I am LOVING this shit

Derrick said...

typo
"Seante seat"

starbird said...

You're off by a factor of two, Nate.

If each side spent $22M for a 50/50 shot at a Senate seat, the seat is worth $44M, not $22M. This is $20K per day, or $840K for six weeks.

This doesn't quite cover Coleman's cost, but the balance ($31,788) is down in the noise, easily covered by his Flockhartesque winning chances, or small errors in your estimates.

Protonk said...

What you've put on the RHS of the equation isn't right. We shouldn't be comparing the cost of mounting a recall/revote campaign against the discounted benefits of a senate seat. We should be comparing them to the discounted benefits of a lifetime's worth of largesse from the republican media machine as a 'speaker', consultant and 'analyst'.

Devotion to the party pays dividends, as poor Scotty Mclellan will find out over time. If Coleman manages to keep Franken out for long enough to prevent cloture on some critical bill (since Burris is seated, we still need 60 but would be short a dem), then all the better for them.

mark said...

I think there's a flaw in your argument. Before we knew the results of the 2008 election it was worth 21M to the Republican party to try to elect Coleman. But, after they found that the results were so close to a supermajority for Democrats the value of each senator may be much more.


If this is now not as an effort to gain one vote in the senate but rather to prevent a near supermajority, then perhaps the costs should be amortized over 2 years -- or what remains of 2 years on the assumption that after 2010 things will be further from supermajority than they are now.

markymark said...

I think either the RNC has some agreement in place with Coleman to help pay some of the debt he is undoubtly building up, or Nate is right in his analysis that Coleman has figured this is his best chance of a future political career, slim as it might be.

STepper said...

The Reublicans are aimless. They think that being the Party of No is going to help them. But it's killing them. So, when they continue to act as the Party of No (no Senator from Minnesota), they further marginalize themselves.

Keeping Franken out of the Senate isn't helpig them advance their agenda (oppose everything) at this point. But it is demonstrating to the American people on a daily basis what the Republican Party is all about.

So, not only is the party "not conservative enough" to people like Gingrich and Palin, but it's not obstructionist enough.

The Coleman strategy is yet another indication the Republican Party is rudderless and bereft of ideas.

Jeff said...

Franken has won, quite obviously and God help us.

But only on this and kindred web sites is a 300 vote, coin toss "victory" in a swing state held up as evidence of the death of the GOP and the onward, upward march to domination of the Democrats. Please.

I think some of you might benefit from reading this riposte to Paul Krugman, who trades in similar fantasies:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/04/023323.php

Bradford said...

Jeff-

Noone is holding up this single seat as the singular reason for a long term move to the democrats, but thanks for asking why I think it there may be a move to dems.

First Minnesota - this election is basically a dem interloper parachuting into a state and beating an incumbent, thus it shows some real wekness for the repubs in the last election in that state. This weakness was shown all across the upper midwest.

Now the move toward democrats nationally - the move to dems can be seen via the demographics of the country. All the growing groups are dem strongholds and the youth are more strongly dem than they have been in decades and those kids grow up.

Bradford said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Bradford said...

Jeff-

Finally, to your Krugman post. You pretty clearly did not read Krugman's original piece. Krugman's original premise is that republicans are undereducated, insane children. This is absolutely true, but the second point he makes is that you were able to get George Bush elected and re-elected as the poster child insane un-educated children so dems should not be so comfortable and smug.

Brian said...

Jesus, all you people are reading a little too much into what Nate has done here. I think he completely realizes that the money is secondary to the politics, but when you have been going at something for months, looking at a new, interesting aspect provides some relief.

It is akin to making fun of the Yankees for how much they pay A-Rod per home run. It is just funny to look at it that way. Nate does mathematical analysis for a living, there are only so many ways to slice this race.

Jeff said...

Bradford,
I read the Krugman piece and thought it was idiotic.

Of course GOPers in swing states were vulnerable this year. It was a big swing election - no one disputes this. The question is whether this is permanent, or whether it a trend that has probably peaked. Readers of this site put a lot of stock in statistics regarding demographic groups, the young, issue polling, etc. But these things are themselves mere snapshot measures. A good slice of the electorate will move back and forth between the parties. These moves do not typically measure long term, considered political judgments - but short-term, emotional answers based on current events.

The "old ideas" versus "new ideas" trope is also dumb. Obama doesn't have any new ideas. He has just found an opportune moment for old, liberal ideas. Likewise, old, small government, low tax ideas will have their day again. I can think of three or four developments that could lead to a big GOP comeback in the next few years. My leading candidates are 1. higher taxes on the middle class to pay for the gigantic budgets or 2. inflation. I'm not predicting these, or hoping for them. I just raise them as thought experiments to make the point that events (and voter boredom) can make for very quick cycles in politics. The current democratic sweep looked very unlikely indeed four years ago.

hosertohoosier said...

Your analysis needs some assessment of risk aversion, otherwise it is meaningless. Risk aversion, of course, adds yet another assumption to a less-than-parsimonious attempt to explain reality.

davidsfr said...

This whole post was just a ploy so Nate could post a picture of Calista Flockhart!

Actually, she looks good. Alright, Nate!

markymark said...

Jeff,

I don't think anyone is using this victory as a sign of the death of the GOP. I think they might be using Coleman's protracted legal fight as a sign of the aimlessness and lack of political ideas coming from the GOP right now. Personally if I were a Democrat in Minnesota right now, I would be heading down the the MNSC court house with a 'Sore Loserman' sign from 2000, just for the irony. Gore kept on going for a month or so, Coleman has been at this for 5 months. I don't really think 1 senate seat is worth the damage this is doing to the GOP.

James Goldstone said...

How much has Lizard People spent? Don't go discounting Lizard People. Thats just what he wants us to do.

Bradford said...

Jeff-

Alhough it is true that is a normal back and forth, thee are also swing elections where things change on a more permanent basis. To act as if the Regan revolution did not occur, or that we are not becoming more broadly socially accpeting gays, for example, is not occurring or did not happen is to bury one's head in the sand.

Thus, the question is how many of those young first time voters are still available to the GOP (vote twice for one party - you have them for life in most cases), how many Hispanics are so offended by the republican hate machine that they will never return. I would agree that the white suburban is the one that might go back to the GOP, but this economic pain is falling squarely on them and they saw how there lot improved under Clinton and actually got worse under Bush.

Time will tell, but to act like there is nothing happening and all is well for the GOP is pretty funny.

GROG said...

I think it's pretty funny how Bush "stole" the election in 2000, but Franken won this one "fair and square."

Bradford said...

GROG-

Fl set up a process in 2000 that was not allowed to finish, the process set up in MN was allowed to reach a final legal conslusion.

BIG difference.

Chris Brew said...

Pictures of Callista Flockhart always appreciated, but what are you saying? What is Callista Flockhart territory like? Is it full of Ally McBeal fantasy sequences and dancing babies?

6p01157014b926970b said...

Apologies to those who have seen it before (I posted a link one other time), but here's a humorous (fiction) angle to the story

http://www.observingcasually.com/minnesotas-plan-to-cut-government-spending/

Jeff said...

Bradford,
I didn't suggest that "all is well" for the GOP. But the case made here and elsewhere for their irrelevance is overblown. Was Obama's election like Reagans? Perhaps. But 1980 hardly signalled the oblivion of the Democratic party. They only lost in 1988 by putting up an historically awful presidential candidate. The won the midterms of 1982 and held Congress for 12 years.

As for the issues, matters are much more complicated than you portray. Much of Obama's agenda is rather more unpopular than he is, and will become more so if implemented (in my opinion). Ask yourself, for instance, will cap and trade be a vote getter for the party? In any case, issues come and go. Polling on issues is just as fluid as any other kind of polling. The only plausible candidate for a permanent shift on a major issue is the question of homosexuality. This site is obsessed with that one, because it (alone) confirms the meme of the "new Democratic majority". But that issue is a mixed bag at best for the Dems. The country is still pretty evenly split on that, and it is not an issue that reliably benefits Democrats electorally. Notice Obama's waffling on it.

Basically, you are arguing that the "hate machine" (this sort of hyperbole is revealing) has made minority voters permanent democrats - locked in at two third (for hispanics), and 90% (for African Americans). I very much doubt the Democrats - as a governing party, making all of the necessary choices that will tick people off - can maintain that (while continuing to win, as Obama did, 45% of the white vote).

The other mainstay is the generation argument. But the "youth" vote is sometimes exactly that - a "youth" vote, not a generational shift. Once people start to pay taxes and have children, their views tend to become more conservative. I'd actually be quite curious to know if the the "graying" of the electorate (if it happens) will prove a boon to the GOP.

In general, readers of this site and the left generally over rate their own successes, and this is evidenced by the Krugman's like hyperbole about the "insanity" and "irrelevance" of the GOP. It looks lopsided now, but anyone familiar with political history knows how temporary these things typically are.

terence said...

The simple reality. Norm Coleman has made a decision to obstruct Frankens seating to the fullest extent possible, ruining his chances for elective office in the future. In return he has been promised some very well paid job provided by one Republican or another.

Andy said...

There are several problems with this analysis. First, once the appeal is filed with the supreme court, and oral arguments either happen or don't, Coleman's legal team will disband and just wait for the SC to make its ruling. The costs are a lot lower than you think. Furthermore, you can't assume that the value of keeping the seat vacant is proportional to the cost of the election. This is because they know for sure they can keep the seat vacant, but they only had a 50% chance of winning the election. Also when deciding what to spend on the election, there were opportunity costs such as foregoing the Alaska election that no longer exist. There is much better information, and there is no reason not to throw all the eggs in that basket. You also seem to imply that Coleman is actually paying for this. In the end it will be paid for by huge national donors. So the real question is how much is it worth to big business interests to keep Franken out for another 6 weeks. The answer is probably in the billions.

David said...

I can't see how Coleman's actions at this point make any sense for his own career interests, especially if you translate it into financial terms. There are innumerable ways for an ex-Senator, especially one who's popular with his party faithful, to stay influential and make a killing at the same time. Either he's hell-bent on being in the Senate and nowhere else, or he knows he won't win and is just acting on behalf of the party to keep the Democrats from filling that seat.

These election fights are terribly depressing and make me feel deeply cynical about both parties.

Bradford said...

Jeff-

I actually agree with you on all points (I think cap and trade is dumbest idea ever floated), but I do disagree about the republicans as currently constructed.

I think they need to become more libertarian as that is where alot of the electorate is - we need a small gov party but one that is truly small gov across the board and wants fewer laws period - you can't read the 2nd amendment broadly and the equal protection clause narrowly as that makes the repubs a joke before they even start. How about old school republicans prior to Reagan who were true thinking conservatives? How about we all decide Beck and Limbaugh are windbags who are not inteeligent enough to build a cohesive argument?

Thus, the republicans will rise again, the question is what will the candidate look like who does it? I think he or she will be much more libertarian and will reject much of the social conservative/religious part of current party and move away from the wedge issues that have been party drivers for decades.

As for graying - remember the baby boomers retiring now are not their parents, many smoked pot, were part of the sexual revolution, were raised on Dylan and the Stones, and were against the Vietnam War.

Pragmatus said...

The longer this goes on, and Franken remains patient of the outcome, the worse it will be for the GOP. Instead of actively participating in the political discussions of the day they waste their time trying to spin gold from straw. While their base (e.g. folks who think Sarah Palin is just neato) is comfy with this, it will not attract new voters to their point of view.

The GOP is like the old Packard car company. People who had relied on Packards as an apitome of luxury continued to buy them into the 1950s, while to younger buyers the brand was stodgy and old-fashioned. When it became clear they were headed for disaster Packard tried to sell new, "modern" models (such as the Clipper), which weren't any more successful than new "modern" candidates like Bobby Jindal will be for the GOP.

Talk about lipstick on a pig.

Pragmatus said...

Er--make that epitome...

loner said...

Jeff—

The Democrats didn't lose the House in 1980 and they didn't go back into the Majority in the Senate until 1987.

1980 was not a realignment election. That happened back in 1968. Did we just experience a realigning election? I thought it unlikely beforehand, but now I'm a lot less sure.

Bradford said...

Here is a GREAT article that dovetails nicely into the current argument about repubs. The repubs are dying as the use of force and us as "world cop" is becoming unworkable.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/14/piracy-somalia-us-foreign-policy

Bradford said...

Many do se 1980 as part of a re-alignment to the right and the rise of social conservatives, which Clinton did not do enough to smack down (leading to the longer realignment to the right through Bush II).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1980

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realigning_election

clarkejeffrey said...

"Although as I understand federal elections law, he must still charge Coleman an arm's-length rate for his services less they constitute an in-kind contribution...."


I'm pretty sure you are wrong on this one. The courts have ruled over and over again that volunteers' labor is exempt from the in-kind contributions law.

Republicans were complaining that Bruce Springsteen, et al were giving away millions of dollars worth of services when they held concerts for Obama. They were wrong. Anybody can do anything for a campaign for free. Whether it is stuffing envelopes or singing to a 100,000 people. If the lawyer wants to work for free, Norm has no obligation to report it. Now if somebody else were to pay the lawyer to work for Norm, than that would be an in-kind contribution and illegal under campaign finance law.

Bruce M. said...

Andy is right about the cost estimates--way overblown. I don't think Nate knows, or consulted, private lawyers. The kind of burn rate he hypothesizes might be relatively close for actual trial time, and just before trial, but it drops precipitously after verdict, and during appeal. No appellate brief in this case is going to take 5 $500/hour lawyers working 50 hours/week each, or anything close. And, as Andy points out, once the briefs are submitted, you just hurry up and wait. To my knowledge, nobody has figured out how to charge $500/hour for wait time yet ;)

fred said...
This post has been removed by the author.
fred said...

Bruce M.-

Wanna bet? The briefs in this case will change completely and will be all about constitutional law instead of MN election law. I bet it costs AT LEAST that much.

fred said...

As to the second point - after the briefs are in - don't you need your associates to read every possbile case associated with the opponents brief? How about every other state's constitutional law courts to find the one closest case to your argument and your opponents?

Ahhh, give me deep pockets, there is always a reason to work hard...

mcc said...

I think the only problem with this analysis is that it thinks of Coleman as being the "actor" here. I.E., you assume (maybe just for the sake of argument, I don't know) that Coleman is the one calling the shots at the Norm Coleman campaign. This means you look at all the analysis here from Norm Coleman's perspective-- is such and such a good thing for Norm Coleman? Is such and such a good deal from Norm Coleman's perspective?

But Norm Coleman is no longer relevant to this case-- he's almost disappeared from its orbit. For example, looking over the statements made since the decision I find that although Franken and the DNC and Tim Kaine and whatnot have personally made statements about Coleman's court loss, Coleman has said nothing. The only statements from Coleman's side have been from Colemans' legal team, from Colemans' legal spokesperson, from Ben Ginsberg. And what would he say? Coleman himself most likely no longer thinks he can prevail, possibly no longer cares, and most likely would not be continuing fighting if he were doing it for his own sake. But Coleman isn't the one calling the shots here, Ben Ginsberg is. This is no longer about what Coleman wants, it is about the GOP. And what the GOP wants, as everyone knows, is delay and obstruction.

What Coleman himself actually probably wants at this point is some sort of career, since as Nate points out here his political career is probably over. In other words, he needs wingnut welfare. Coleman needs the GOP to give him some sort of token job (with the RJC, perhaps?) so he can pay his bills from here on out. And at this point suddenly everything Team Coleman is doing makes sense from Norm Coleman's perspective: Norm Coleman is letting the national GOP do absolutely whatever it wants with his case, so long as they reward him with some sort of cushy indefinite deskjob when this is all done.

Statler N Waldorf said...

Nate,

I agree. This is Coleman's last act, and I think he realizes this. He,s seen what happened to his immediate predecessor- Dean Barkley, who now drives a bus for a senior center-and has decided that he wants to hold on to his dream of being politically relevant for as long as he can before he too has to move on to a non-political profession, where the best he can hope for is someone might recognize him and ask, "You were once one of the most powerful men in Minnesota-what are you doing serving ice cream for a living?"

And, as Barkley's recently failed attempt to recapture his former Senate seat shows, once you've lost, it's real hard to bounce back. Granted, Barkley ran as an independent and had less money than the RNC could funnel into a campaign, but even more lethal to his run was the fact that he lost, and he he know has to wear the mantle of loser.

That's a pretty heavy mantle, and you only get to take it off if you somehow manage to win something in the future, at which point you become the Comeback Kid. There's not so many of those, though.

Coleman knows the day is coming very soon when he'll have to wear that mantle too. But for now, he's still a contender, he's still (at least technically) in the race, so he is still relevant until the day comes when he gives up or is forced out. This may very well be the last time he graces the political stage-so he's trying to savor every last moment while they last.

So, as much as this is going to cost him in terms of dollars, it kinda makes sense in terms of dignity.

Unfortunately, democracy itself suffers, as does the state of Minnesota, when her elected officials can't let go and move on.

The RNC, for its part, is taking advantage of its tragic hero by telling him to stay in the fight as long as he can. They're doing it out of spite, for Franken, for the Democratic Party, for the electorate that rejected them, for the Obama Administration and all the changes it plans to make.

If there is a devil here, its not Coleman, its the RNC. They're his muse, urging him to give in to a primal instinct rather than sacrifice himself for the good of Minnesota and the US as a whole. They're whispering in his ear all the poisonous little things that keep him going long after he should have submitted his resumé to the retirement home where Barkley works, for the position of assistant driver.


There are no second acts in American livesF. Scott Fitzgerald

Tarr said...

Nate,

You say senatorial defeats for incumbents are more career-deflating than other such defeats. Does this remain true when you take into account age and length of political career? I would imagine that many defeated senatorial incumbents were political dinosaurs being ushered off the stage. The same is not really true with term-limited governors, or with the more fluid house districts.

Robby said...

GROG -

The recount was a red herring; Jeb Bush stole the 2000 election months in advance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChoicePoint#Florida_voter_file_contract

Cugel said...

Some points:

1. If Norm's lawyers are charging him $500 an hour, then he's getting ripped off! This isn't NY or S.F. we're talking about.

You should be able to hire very good lawyers for $400 an hour or less.

2. The GOP is only interested in delaying Franken's being seated for as long as possible. Coleman is just a water-carrier. He has ZERO chance of ultimately being seated and everybody knows it.

3. He probably has no intention of ever running for public office again. As Nate points out, the career path for defeated U.S. Senators isn't bright. They go into lobbying, or else go back to their law practices or go into a business partnership.

There are a lot of ways for them to make money.

But, they can't run for public office.

This means that Norm has to delay and fight to the bitter end. The longer he drags this out the better the party will love him, and that's all that matters to him at this point.

The Republicans are a bunch of thugs and fixers who take care of their own. You never lose status and job-opportunities by being defeated or for being a total ass-hat, only for "disloyalty."

As with the former Emperor Haile Selassie, so with the Republican party: "I can never remember the Emperor bending the autocrats' heads into the dust for corruption. Let them enjoy their corruption so long as they displayed their loyalty!"

phil said...

Coleman has 3 major reasons to plug on:

1.) Keeping Franken out of the Senate has already paid for itself many times over. Denying Franken's vote on the stimulus bill alone was worth $24 Billion, enough to fund hundreds of campaigns. ($24 Billion comes from $120 Billion (cut from stimulus to buy 3 Rep votes)/3 (non-Dem votes required) * 0.60 (percent Americans represented in Congress by Democrats).
2. Coleman's continuing campaign stirs the Republican base. Visit any Wingnut site and note the outrage over this "stolen" election. Keeping Wingnuts enraged is far more important to the GOP than offending middle-of-the-road voters who will have forgotten all this by November 2010.
3. Coleman needs cash laundered to his upcoming criminal defense. Norm is anticipating a money laundering charge (oh, the irony!) which has surfaced tangentially to a civil case in Texas. He has already declared his intention to use campaign funds for that defense. The more he raises to appeal the election case, the more he has left over to defend the criminal case. Recall that his lead election lawyer is a defense specialist with no prior experience in election cases.

Brad Engelmann said...

I disagree with Nate's analysis that Tim Pawlenty will run for reelection next year.

Pawlenty won reelection in 2006 by a razor thin margin and only after his opponent made a campaign blunder in the final two weeks of the campaign. Mike Hatch was a rather weak opponent to begin with and Pawlenty was fortunate to come out on top in that election.

Have things changed? Yes. And not for the better.

Pawlenty continues to follow an agenda that many Minnesotans recognize is designed for his national profile above everything else, which is essentially to block the DFL-controlled Senate (which has a super majority) and the DFL-controlled house (which is four votes shy of a super majority). Pawlenty refuses to raise taxes and wants to limit spending. Sounds good on a national platform in the back pocket, but it's not doing us any good here. We have serious problems and long-range problems and Pawlenty's agenda is not helping. I think most Minnesotans realize this.

During Pawlenty's administration, DFLers have flourished, picking up a wave of state senate and house seats, one US House seat, one US Senate hold in an open election and now one pickup with Franken.

Minnesota leans Democractic with a roughly 3-4 point bump for any DFL candidate.

At this point, I don't see any formidable DFL candidates declaring candidacy for the gubernatorial election next year, but I think we'll see somebody who can beat Pawlenty.

I think Pawlenty's chances of reelection are less than 50/50 and if he were to lose, his national profile would be severely damaged. It's not worth the risk for him and the analysis I've read from local pundits is that he will not run again next year.

Dopper said...

Jeff:

I'm sorry but the idea that people get more conservative with age is not supported by facts. It is simply conventional wisdom. People become more locked in their views but that small c conservative. The FDR generation stayed pretty much democrats until they started to die off. The highest McCain voting blocks were about 30 when Reagen was 1st elected. They are conservative only in they don't change their minds.

Actually Bush was the exception that proved the rule on Latino. They are about a 2/3 Democratic voting block. This will go up as more non-cuban Latinos become citizens, also when Cuba changes the GOP lock on that group will likely slip by 5% at least. If you think black voter will fall under 90% for Obama I got a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

As for White around 41% there are a few states that had concerns about Obama that if they are addressed he will win. Chiefly Missouri the only state where Bush was under 37% that Obama lost (narrowly). Because MO was the only state in that category where he had a net negative commander in chief rating.

I don't see any Republican breaking the Obama coalition. Bobby Jindals "name change" from Pryesh may help him amongst conservative whites, but will hurt him amongst Latino who are big on cultural retention. He is the only candidate who could have disturbed the Obama coalition (picking off white and Latino Catholics). But his name change negates this.

Also will highland racist find Pryush more acceptable then Obama?

ikeconn said...

I didn't see where you incleuded the court costs and Franken's legal fees for the Contest as ordered by the court as part of Coleman's expenses.

billbg said...

Nate wrote: "Recall that Coleman was willing to invest $21,821,755 to win a six-year term.... After discounting for the time that has already expired from the term, we estimate that this is worth $20,306,355 to Coleman."Terrible assumption. Just because Coleman spent nearly $22 million campaigning for the Senate seat doesn't mean it is only worth $22 million to him.

Maybe if he had raised more funds, he would have spent even more.

Or maybe he thought $22 million was enough to win the seat.

Or maybe he feels there is some sort of legal principle worth fighting for in addition to the political office.

Or maybe a dozen other factors enter into his cost-benefit calculations.

If Coleman is a rational person, then the fact that he is continuing to contest the election is fairly convincing evidence that he feels it is worth continuing to contest the election.

phil said...

@Brad Engelmann

I believe you're right on all counts. Running in 2010 is too dangerous for Pawlenty.

The "formidable DFL candidate" you're waiting for is probably Minnesota House Speaker Margaret Anderson Kelliher. She's smart, polished, and knows how to use TV. She can't announce her candidacy until after the legislative session is over, but she's been signaling her interest for at least a year.

Part of Pawlenty's calculus is whether it's worth dragging out the legislative session to protect his principal issue of no new taxes. He will look better to many if he gets his job done, but he's been playing to a national audience which has no interest in the speed of Minnesota's lawmaking. A side benefit of dragging out the session is it will delay Kelliher's entry into the race for governor.

x0lani said...

It seems most likely that the RNC or some other Republican-friendly organization or individual is financing his court costs. I don't know what the rule is here, but it doesn't seem that large donations would be prevented for the legal challenges, unlike campaign contributions.

It may be the Republicans believe it's worth $22 million to keep Franken's vote out of the senate...

Todd Dugdale said...

Brad Engelmann wrote:
"Pawlenty won reelection in 2006 by a razor thin margin and only after his opponent made a campaign blunder in the final two weeks of the campaign. Mike Hatch was a rather weak opponent to begin with and Pawlenty was fortunate to come out on top in that election."

This is very true.

Also, Pawlenty has always projected a 'non-partisan' image of a nice, sane Republican who isn't one of the strident "crazies".

If he now drops that image to take Coleman's side in a blatantly partisan move, that would be the political end for Pawlenty. He would lose the Independents and gain nothing - he already has the wingnut vote locked up.

Coleman himself did not win a majority in 2002, but rather by a plurality in three-way race.

So this hopeless bid could very well ruin both Coleman and Pawlenty, at least in MN politics. That's a steep price to pay for a few months of delay in seating Franken.

2008Central.net said...

Mark Ritchie said he would not sign an election certificate until the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled or denied the appeal, so Franken is not going to be seated for a couple more weeks.

I saw Ritchie speak Friday, and he said the timeframe will be four weeks or so on that final ruling.

Todd Dugdale said...

billbg wrote:
"Or maybe he feels there is some sort of legal principle worth fighting for in addition to the political office."

He's essentially indicting the entire MN electoral process, saying that it's impossible to have a fair election under the current rules.

Weird, though: he had six years after he won election under that putatively 'broken' system to change it, but he didn't.

As for those legal principles: See here, p.12, point 72.
He's screwed. He already conceded those legal principles during the recount.

Clarissa said...

Is Coleman getting his money worth out of his lawyers- No. They are clowns.

Whenever there has been a deadline for a filing Franken has been early but the Coleman teams is either turning it in at the last minute or late.

In the recount the Franken team was more on top of what is considered a valid challenge and what is not and thus was more successful in the recount.

When it came to absentee ballots Franken was prompt and able to point to specific instances and ballots while Coleman was floundering around in Generalities.

Lets not even talk about needing Frankens copies of documents to be submitted to the court after they forgot that they were supposed to keep the copies provide clean and intact.

Or how about the star witness of the major Republican "double counted ballot" conspirancy claims (remember other than this witness they had nothing else to hang this claim on). She a) never actually was involved with counting absentee ballots just cobbled it together from some second hand conversations b) was a known Coleman partisan and c) was deliverately coached and hidden by the Coleman legal team. Given the centrality of her claims the proper procedure would have been for her to give a sworn deposition and for a copy of this given to Frankens teams in discovery and because their handling of her was so poor they almost had her testimony thrown out due to coaching and unprofessional legal conduct and fined the Coleman lawyers for being so stupid. Oh, yes, also after the Franken lawyer exposed that the Coleman team had coached her responces and the court recessed to determine if her testimony could be considered valid the Coleman lawyers met her in the hallway to make sure she understood what she had say to keep to partyline.

In short, Coleman is paying to much for these idiots which is sad because they are some of the most distinguished Republican lawyers in the state.

tmess2 said...

One factual correction/legal correction -- The Minnesota Supreme Court must hear this appeal. While the U.S. Supreme Court can (and probably will) decline to hear the appeal, the Minnesota Supreme Court does not have that option. I would be shocked if we get a final decision from the Minnesota Supreme Court before July given the complexity of the case.

As far as whether or not an appeal is worth the money, on the merits, it isn't. The entire Coleman legal strategy has been to ask the court to presume that they are correct. Normally, the contestant has to prove that they won the election and the presumptions are against them. Thus, they have no evidence to back them up. Thus, the only way that an appeal is worth the money is for legally improper reasons -- like delaying the seating of the winner.

One last comment -- While Coleman talks about the 4,300 ballots that weren't counted, the panel found that only 700 of those ballots came from registered voters. Since 351+ of the 700 ballots were counted, unless Coleman can somehow show that the panel was factually wrong on this issue, he can't get more than another 340 or so votes counted (and some of those 340 have to be from Franken's list).

Mike in Maryland said...

Bruce M. said...
To my knowledge, nobody has figured out how to charge $500/hour for wait time yetReminds me of the company that was hiring a new Chief Financial Officer. The final three candidates were an engineer, a statistician, and an accountant.

The CEO had one final question to ask of each of the finalists, "What does two plus two equal?"

He then considered the responses each of the finalists gave, which were:

The engineer - "Why, four, of course!"

The statistician - "Four, plus or minus 5%."

The accountant - "What do you want it to equal?"

In other words, where there's a will (greed, maybe?), someone will try to find a way.

Behr said...

Could someone please answer to this:

Isn't Coleman responsible for paying Franken's legal expenses if / when he ultimately loses? Why would Franken be responsible for incurring these costs if it turns out Coleman's suit didn't holde water?

-Behr

Statler N Waldorf said...

Well, the fastest way to get Franken seated is to either 1) get the Minnesota Supremes to refuse to hear the case or b) accelerate the process as quick as he can. The faster he can get to SCOTUS, the better for Franken-while Ginsburg's still alive and willing to deny cert.

If either the Minnesota Supremes or the SCOTUS deny cert, the case is over. Coleman can't appeal any higher, and the latest ruling will stand

BenK said...

The dignified thing would be for Coleman to concede, but in running the numbers, Nate fails to take into account what a fundraising boon and base motivator this is and will continue to be in the future so long as Franken's election can be painted as illegitimate. That's worth a lot.

DermottTrellis said...

Today's paper has an overview of Norm's legal bills
http://minnesotaindependent.com/32161/coleman-faces-piles-legal-debt

The Strib reported in January that Norm had refinanced his home 12 times already and that his current mortgage exceeds the home's value.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/37369749.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUl

The PiPress reported this month more possible legal fees if Norm is sued by his donors for exposing their credit card numbers.
http://www.twincities.com/ci_12068995

Also, it's worth mentioning that if by some miracle Norm were declared winner, he would probably face Senate Ethics charges concerning his Jeff Larsen low-rent room and his other problems. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/20835.html

ouch

krshorewood said...

Does any one have any idea what this is costing the state of Minnesota in terms of all the extra work to grind this thing out?

decomplex said...

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but you need to discount what you think he's gambling by any consumer surplus he experiences when a Senator. He may spend $22 million, but actually get $30 million in consumer surplus. That would change both your uncovered-costs amount and your overall payoff amount, and decrease the percentage chance he needs to win in order for continuation to be a rational endeavor. Also, he probably gains some utility from being a challenger that he would not gain from being an ex-Senator, like media coverage and personal recognition.

DermottTrellis said...

krshorewood -

From Minnesota Public Radio from last November

"Minnesota taxpayers will pick up the estimated $87,000 recount bill"

nikip5555 said...

Nate, I think the calculation of the value of the Senate seat is more complex than what you showed. Surely the RNC places some monetary value on not having Franken in the Senate beyond simply what it costs to run a campaign. I'm not sure how one might go about determining this, but that's your job :-)

billbg said...

Statler N Waldorf noted: Well, the fastest way to get Franken seated is to either 1) get the Minnesota Supremes to refuse to hear the case...Minnesota law requires the state supreme court to hear any election contest appeal.

billbg said...

Behr asked, "Isn't Coleman responsible for paying Franken's legal expenses if / when he ultimately loses?"

Minnesota statute 209.07(3): "If the contestee succeeds, costs of the contest must be paid by
the contestant."

Normally, "costs" are interpreted to mean court costs and exclude attorney fees. If that's the case here, Coleman will be on the hook for relatively little.

billbg said...

Clarissa claimed, "Whenever there has been a deadline for a filing Franken has been early but the Coleman teams is either turning it in at the last minute or late."

I'm a Franken fan, but I also try to get my facts right.

After the recount, Coleman had 10 days to file a notice of contest. He filed on Day 1.

And Franken got an extension on his deadline to file his list of absentee ballots that he would be contesting.

billbg said...

Clarisa asserted, "Or how about the star witness of the major Republican 'double counted ballot' conspirancy claims (remember other than this witness they had nothing else to hang this claim on)."

In that precinct, there were 14 more votes counted during the recount than on election night. And there were 14 original absentee ballots for which there were no corresponding duplicates. Double counting is the only plausible explanation. Mistakes happen.

Clairissa also alleged, "She a) never actually was involved with counting absentee ballots just cobbled it together from some second hand conversations..."

Actually, Pamela Howell was among the four election judges who were counting absentee ballots in two teams of two.

We Franken supporters have more than enough facts to show our candidate won the election. Please, let's not resort to making stuff up.

Bruce M. said...

Fred--

I've been involved as a lawyer in the trial and appeal of civil cases for 25 years, from a grunt associate to the lead dog. Trust me, weeks-long trials and their run-up dwarf appeals in cost.

There is a whole lot of waiting in the appellate process, and virtually none in a hotly contested pre-trial and trial process. Coleman will get two briefs--an opening brief (the research for which has largely been done, presumably, in the briefing before this 3 judge panel), and a reply brief to Franken's response. That's it. Preparation for oral argument will take some time, but nothing compared to preparing for direct and cross-exmaminations, experts, etc. typical of discovery and trial in the court below.

Bob X said...

BruceM: I read your opening line as "I've been involved as a lawyer in the trial and appeal of *a civil case* for 25 years", thought you meant you had had the same case going for all those years, and were about to warn us that Franken-Coleman could go on that long.
Whew!