Maybe Democrats should take Rick Perry up on his idea that Texas should secede from the Union.
Consider:
-- If Texas were not in the Union, the Democrats would currently have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate -- or at least they would once Al Franken gets seated. This is because, in a 98-seat Senate, only 59 votes would be required to break a filibuster.
-- If Texas were not in the Union, the Republicans would operate from a significantly weakened position in the House, since the net 8-vote advantage their congressional delegation gives them in the state (they have 20 seats to the Democrats' 12) is by far their largest.
-- If Texas were not in the Union, George W. Bush would never have become President in 2000 -- not because he'd be constitutionally ineligible (Bush, despite his Texas twang, was born in posh New Haven, Connecticut). Rather, he wouldn't have had enough Electoral Votes to defeat Al Gore.
-- If Texas were not in the Union, Barack Obama would have won the Electoral College 389-147 instead of 365-173 (note that there are two fewer votes total, because there would be two fewer Senators). The vast majority of Texas' electoral votes would be redistributed to lib'rul states like California (which would go from having 55 electoral votes to 59) and New York (34 rather than 31):California 55 --> 59 (+4)-- If Texas were not in the Union, Bush would still have defeated John Kerry 269-267, but Kerry would have an easier go of things, winning the election if he'd won either Iowa or New Mexico; he would not have had to win Ohio or Florida.
New York 31 --> 34 (+3)
Florida 27 --> 29 (+2)
Illinois 21 --> 23 (+2)
Michigan 17 --> 19 (+2)
Arizona 10 --> 11 (+1)
Connecticut 7 --> 8 (+1)
Georgia 15 --> 16 (+1)
Indiana 11 --> 12 (+1)
Kentucky 8 --> 9 (+1)
Maryland 10 --> 11 (+1)
Massachusetts 12 --> 13 (+1)
Mississippi 6 --> 7 (+1)
Montana 3 --> 4 (+1)
New Jersey 15 --> 16 (+1)
Ohio 20 --> 21 (+1)
Oklahoma 7 --> 8 (+1)
Oregon 7 --> 8 (+1)
Pennsylvania 21 --> 22 (+1)
S. Carolina 8 --> 9 (+1)
Virginia 13 --> 14 (+1)
Utah 4 --> 5 (+1)
Washington 11 --> 12 (+1)
Wisconsin 10 --> 11 (+1)
-- If Texas were not in the Union, there'd be a good case for making football an Olympic sport, which would sure as hell beat rhythmic gymnastics.
This all sounds like a pretty good deal to me, provided there weren't import duties on Shiner Bock.
4.17.2009
Hey Rick, Can We Talk?
@ 12:18 AM
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We could build a wall to keep the illegals out, too.
If we're lucky Perry will take Oklahoma and Utah with him.
Don't let the panhandle slap you on the ass on the way out, Perry, you buffoon.
As a Yale student currently living there, I can assure you that New Haven is not posh ;)
And with that, ladies and gentlemen, the average IQ of the nation went up a whole 4 points!
Do they have Shiner Bock in NYC?
We should really get something from Perry in writing. You know how politicians like to wiggle out of their promises.
shiner bock is nasty. they can keep it.
You need 75 countries on at least four continents to qualify a sport for the Olympics. Even if you included all the countries that have participated in the IFAF World Cup, American Football doesn't have anywhere near that. Even if you add Texas. Nice idea though...
According to the FReeptards at World Nut Daily, one million attended teabagger parties in 50 states. LMAO... I'm serious!
By Jerome Corsi, author of debunked Obama smear book, "OBAMA NATION":
An estimated 1 million Americans participated in at least 1,000 tea parties, according to reports by organizers tabulating the nationwide numbers, with documented protests held in 50 states.
Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform told WND, "The Obama administration has awakened a sleeping giant."
Tax Day Tea Party national event coordinator Amy Kremer told WND she has confirmed that more than 850 parties took place. She has at least 100 more reports in her e-mail inbox that have not been posted.
Asked how many people attended the events, she responded, "I would estimate it at over 1 million. I'm waiting on more numbers to come in from organizers right now. I can tell you it is absolutely over 750,000 right now."
The largest protests occurred in Atlanta, Ga., with 15,000 participants. As many as 10,000 protesters participating in Sacramento, Calif., and Overland Park, Kan., according to data compiled by Americans for Tax Reform on more than 207 tea parties.
Americans for Tax Reform has established an Internet page on the group's website where organizers of tea parties can submit attendance estimates to be included in the running tally.
Michael DePrimo, special counsel to American Family Aassociation President Tim Wildmon, told WND that AFA's tea party website, Tea Party Day, had 2,031 confirmations that tea parties were to be held in as many cities.
"Since yesterday, we have had 394 cities give us reports, many with photographs, about the tea parties that were held," he said. "We have not been able to get all the information up. We expect more to come in as the days go by."Fuck me, even they're own photos show huge empty spaces.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95230
If Governor Moron had a brain, he would try to break Texas up into 5 states so that it would have disproportionately more power in the Senate than it does now.
The US Congress accepted Texas' admission and gave Texas the right to break up into 5 states:
"New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution"
Perry would then be Governor of a tiny state, like Rhode Island.
Why stop at Texas? Let the deep south go as well. Atleast the white parts of it. Most of these redneck,crackers have family trees that look like a Christmas wreaths.
If Texas were not in the Union, Bush would still have defeated John KerryActually, he wouldn't have.
Bush would have been a foreign national and ineligible to serve.
Texas is going to secede?
Build the wall! Build the wall!
Just kidding. I've known quite a few very nice folks from Texas. The fact that a state governor is talking about secession is making me think some folks on the right are getting a little loopy.
pffffftt...Nate i know you just did this for fun. Texas is NOT going to ecede from the Union, period. I would bet my life on it.
Now i WISH it would for all the reasons Nate stated...but it will never happen.
Perry should take his army of tea baggers and move to Alaska. It is a very sparsely populated state so there is plenty of room. The collective IQ of Alaska would go down even further. In that population even Palin would look smart.
I'm curious if this has more to do with Perry's upcoming primary fight than anything else.
You people are too hasty. Texas can't leave the union unless it takes Oklahoma with it!!
This is a terrible idea. I would never want to see the good people of Austin forced to live in what would no doubt end up being the rather tyrannical Republic of Texas. We'd probably have to airlift out two-thirds of the city prior to Texan Independence, and no small part of Houston as well.
Re: EmonOkari: That's what every Texan (native and transplant like myself) has said here. Let's remember that Governor Goodhair only was re-elected with 40% of the vote; 1.2 million Texans voted for third party gubernatorial candidates that year. He knows the only way to prevent Governor Kay Bailey Hutchinson in 2011 is to appeal to the right-right-wing. Of course, he forgets that Texas has an open primary system, and just as Republicans voted for Hillary in the Dem. primary in 2008 here, so will Democrats and Independents grab a Republican ballot to vote him out of here.
WV: tritiv. Recommended by four out of five dentists.
Still divided on this issue.
1) If there is a Civil War resulting from Texas cessation, I'm joining the US Army and will request that I be sent to the front lines moving into Texas. And yes, I'm doing it wearing a feather boa.
2) However, if DC decides we're better off without Texas,
then that's okay too
Nixon would have been president in 1960, so no JFK. You also wouldn't have LBJ, the Great Society/Civil Rights act of 1964. Ross Perot would not have run for president in 1992, so Bill Clinton could well have lost to Bush Sr. Without Clinton, the Democrats would not have repaired their reputation as good stewards of the economy, or have removed the racially tinged issues of welfare and crime from the political discourse with welfare reform and Clinton's crime bill - reforms that allowed a candidate like Obama to emerge.
In 1916, Woodrow Wilson could have lost without Texas (without Texas' electoral college votes he was up by 3, but it is worth adding that Texas brought with it donations and organizing power - that could have made the difference in New Hampshire, which Wilson won by 56 votes). Hughes might have been slower to enter WWI, giving the Germans more time to mount an all-out offensive in 1917, with troops freed up by their victory on the Eastern Front. It is hard to imagine what the implications of that would be.
Texas
Taxes
Totally had this conversation at dinner tonight . . . I mean, we weren't doing the redistributional math, and despite my hippiness I'm also somewhat of a geographer at heart and really I don't want Texas to go, I'd feel terrible for e.g. Austin and, you know, the Mexicans.
But then you'd have to change the name of the site to fivethirtysix.com.
What's it been? Less than 3 months out of power and already the frothing-at-the-mouth, knuckle-dragging, slack-jawed, racist, authoritarian, theocratic bullies of the Republithug party are waiving their pitchforks for armed rebellion and secession?! Yet they call the progressive majority “un-American”?! Now that’s the height of illogical lunacy. It would be funny if they weren’t so damn dangerous. The Republithugs will be banished forever as a party if the neo-Nazi, KKK, militia types they’re now pandering to commit any act of domestic terrorism or attempted assassination. It would be good to see them go, but the thought of any harm coming to our progressive elected leaders frightens the daylights out of me. We all need to send good Karma and/or pray, if that’s your thing, for this time of rightwing intimidation to pass without violence.
DG Lewis said...
But then you'd have to change the name of the site to fivethirtysix.com.
---
Not to worry! Puerto Rico has been waiting for years to become a state. Lose Texas and add Puerto Rico, which, btw, has a larger population than Oregon (my home state).
Austin, man. We need to keep the city of Austin, island of coolness that it is.
You have Utah going from 4 -> 5. But it already has 5 votes WITH Texas.
Really? Shiner Bock isn't really that good. Best beer in Texas, but that's about it.
Also, good riddance to bad rubbish.
I'm all for it. And there are a lot of wingnuts who say they would move there...the "Real American Patriots".
The United State Of Texas...has a nice ring to it. I'm sure they'd go to war with Mexico immediately.
To protect the rest of us from disgusted UST immigrants slipping over the border, we'd have to build a fence.
Tex-Mex would take on a whole new meaning...
rather than a fence, hows about a ditch ???
let's 'ditch' TEXAS - hook 'em horns...
I see no practical way for Austin to be left behind--so to speak--should Texas seek its bliss elsewhere. El Paso, sure, it could be lopped off and given to NM, but not Austin. Too near the center. Airlifts to, perhaps, New Orleans and New Mexico are, it seems to me, the only practical solution for the good people of Austin. Somebody should get on that.
I was hoping that Caribou Barbie would join him and leave...unfortunately (in a way) the Alaskan Legislature just rejected her dumb choice for State Attorney General....perhaps they are waking up finally...up north. Her star is getting more and more tarnished. Perry is just a kook...think this is the beginning of the end for the wingnuts.
Frankly, Shiner Bock is the best Bock currently brewed in America that I have found. I'd rather not have to pay more for that. Thank you Nate for thinking Big Picture.
Uh, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't this secession thing lead to a civil war last time?
And isn't it fitting for Beck to show up at a tea party at, of all places, the Alamo?
STepper - splitting Texas into smaller states would be awfully difficult. The provision you mention just means he wouldn't need an amendment to the State Constitution. Under the Federal Constitution, you'd still need both approval from both houses of Congress and the state legislature. Good luck with that.
Arn't Texans always crying about the brown skin illegals?
If they secceed, would this means that we would now have to worried about white skinned, native born Texas crossing the boarders when their state go bankrupt because they hate gov.t?
don't forget about all this creation science in textbooks shit that's going down there.
From a webcomic about nuclear engineers at Berkeley:
http://www.nukees.com/d/20041103.html
I've wondered if we could give Texas back to Mexico since 2000.
Texas is awesome. Not everyone in Texas is stupid. Creation science isn't even taught in Texas you prick.
Pinko said...
Most of these redneck,crackers have family trees that look like a Christmas wreaths.You are awesome.
Are there any historical parallels for this strange mix of "patriotism"/secessionist philosophy? They claim to be "real" Americans and "defenders of the Constitution" and such, but at the same time want to leave the Union. Usually, regions want to be independent because they see themselves as different than their current central authority (e.g. the Basques in Spain).
Nate, you never cease to amaze and impress. Shiner Bock is indeed Texas' most precious resource. And although my home state often brings me shame, particularly when bubbas like John Cornyn or Rick Perry open their mouths, I for one am grateful to be a part of the Union. Plastering my Hyundai with Obama stickers has it's own special pleasures when you live amongst Texans, trust me. I have to wonder how many other states out there requires its teachers and students to follow up the pledge of allegiance with a pledge to the state flag. I guess one indivisible nation is just not quite good enough for the Lone Star state.
But, for the record, Texas can't secede. We apparently can break up into up to five smaller states. But secession is not a legal option. I expect this kind of talk from rednecks or people who don't like paying taxes of any kind and prefer forming their own sovereign compound. It's a bit more humiliating to hear it come from the mouth of your own duly elected governor. Maybe Kinky Friedman wasn't such a weird choice after all...
jackleone:
To answer your question; in this case, the tea-baggers, being white racists with no clear or realistic ideology, see themselves as different than the all-inclusive new administration made up of a rainbow of cultural and ethnic backgrounds, headed by a man who happens to be of African ancestry on his father's side. The small-minded, xenophobic, bigots with low self esteem just can't wrap their intolerant, hate-addled, minds around the fact that someone of dark skin tone is smarter than them.
The Republithug Party has become a fringe group of leftover, White Power lunatics who feel threatened that the black man will take their guns away and leave them defenseless against the invading hordes of darkies who want to defile their wives and daughters. You can bet a secessionist Texas would move to kick out anyone of non-northern European ancestry, or at least try to segregate them . . . again.
Creation science isn't even taught in Texas you prick.I grew up in East Texas...and it was taught to me in the 1990s.
jackleone: Are there any historical parallels for this strange mix of "patriotism"/secessionist philosophy?
Actually yes. Many secessionists the first go around (1860-61) viewed secession as the only way to preserve the Constitution. This has to do with Slavery in the Constitution, and state's rights versus federal rights. This has become known as the "Way of life" argument for the Civil War.
Others however felt similarly to today's "secessionists". They viewed the USA as a collection of independent states. (Hence the antebellum phrase, "The United States are ...") This group believed that the states had the right to quit the group at any time if the federal government usurped too much power.
--
As to what to do with Austin, I'd vote for a complete swap with Colorado Springs. Let Texas have Focus on the Family and the secretly gay ministers of mega-churches and let the Springs have South by Southwest.
Can you imagine the threat a nuclear-armed Texas would be to the world?
Is anyone else shocked by the media's reaction to this? The reception to the idea has been completely flat. As if Perry isn't essentially threatening to go to war with the United States.
Perry ought to be hanged for treason! This is madness. An amazing coincidence-- we elect our first black president and a former confederate state threatens secession... AGAIN.
If a Democratic Governor had engaged in this sort of dialogue under the guise of "states rights," they would be savaged by the media.
Take OK, LA, MS and the rest of the uneducated south with you - PLEASE!
Oh yes, this is a treasonable act and if it were done by a dem gov under Bush Cheney likely would have charged him or her!!!!!
"Are there any historical parallels for this strange mix of "patriotism"/secessionist philosophy?"
The other day, Renard Sexton had a thread that mentioned the Hartford Convention during the War of 1812, where the Federalists (i.e. those who supported a strong Federal union) mooted the idea of New England succeeding. Didn't get anywhere, of course. If they had, America wouldn't be gay at all.
priekn: ethnic variant of Gov. Perry
The party of Lincoln is slowly but surely morphing into a blatantly anti-American, extremely corrosive political party, they speak of how American they are, but they are only American when they can institute their will as glorious religious white people over the rest of us.
So much for the pro-American party image - they're showing their true colors now! They must be called on this, this is fundamental. They scream saying something against the President is un-American when Bush is in office, but they can not only slam the President but literally talk about secession when a Dem takes over!
The Governor of Texas should be recalled from office for openly encouraging talk about Texas seceding from the union.
My apologies, I just realised that there is no ethnic variant of a Governor of Texas. One colour only.
This is a perfect justification for Obama to pull all the troops and military bases out of Texas and redistribute them over the next four years; after all, he can't allow the Texans to have any military equipment, and that would deepen the Texan recession quite nicely. I'm sure he could get any production lines closed down and moved as well. With a bit of careful reallocation, he could even ensure that Republican states just got more Republican and Texas became more marginal for 2012. And he'll have to move the US gold supply to somewhere a little safer like Missouri.
I have a better idea: give all the New England states to Canada.
While the original treaty that brought Texas into the union allows The original Republic of Texas to be broken up into 5 smaller states, it doesn't apply now. This is because the original boundaries of the Republic of Texas included parts of what are now Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Wyoming. It looks to me that they've already gone over their quota...
How is all this talk about secession talk not amount to Treason? At what point does it move from free speech to treason by inciting a revolution?
Nate
Another point to make is that if Texas left a lot if conservatives in southern states might jump ship with them. It could change the balance of power in states like Louisiana, Arkansas, and Missouri.
As for Shiner, a small price to pay and we would still have Abita Amber. I could handle that!
I won't add bad things to this. I'll just say thank you!
Any Bell's product beats Shiner...
I apologize if I'm wrong, but didn't you make one major mistake here?
"Barack Obama would have won the Electoral College 389-147 instead of 365-173 (note that there are two fewer votes total, because there would be two fewer Senators)."
Actually, wouldn't we have to subtract 34 Electoral Votes, not just 2? 2 Senators + 32 Congressmen. Plus, why would Obama have *gained* 24 EVs? Are you assuming that the U.S. would still have 435 House districts, and that Texas' would just be divvied up among the other 49 states?
Shouldn't the EV numbers be: 365-139?
I troll at right-wing forums now and again. I have to say, that while in jest, many of the comments here are close to the garbage you'd find over there. It's not constructive.
ARRRGH!!! OK, I'm having a major brain fart day. I didn't bother reading the VERY NEXT SENTENCE.
PLEEEEASE accept my humblest apologies, I'm an idiot this morning!
Other benefits of Texas seceding:
-75% of the Mexico border patrol problem would be instantly solved!
--George W. Bush would no longer be a United States Citizen, meaning that he could be legally held without charge or trial indefinitely, according to his own rules!
--Several million nutcases would no longer be living among us (or "surrounding us" as they put it).
--About half the population of Oklahoma, plus perhaps a quarter of Mississippi/Alabama/ Louisiana/Arkansas would want to move there as well, to form JesusTexasLand, freeing up those states for the rest of us to move on in and take over.
And best of all...
--It'd "free up" the 50th state slot for Puerto Rico (or DC), so we could keep the flag the same at an even 50 stars!
Tom Delay said on Hardball last night that the treaty that made Texas a state lets it divide into five states if it wants to. So naturally Delay, being who he is, was threatening that instead of seceding Texas would become 5 states and then have ten senators So perhaps we should be careful what we ask for.
But the most annoying thing is Perry complaining about the federal government while asking for federal funds to deal with this or that emergency, calling on the federal government to come to the border, etc. Short memory.
"posh" New Haven? have you ever been there?
Creation science isn't even taught in Texas you prick.
I grew up in East Texas...and it was taught to me in the 1990s.Indeed, there has been some recent maneuvering at the state level to reopen the door for legal teaching of Creation Science, renamed Intelligent Design, and now referred to by coded phrases like "teaching the controversy" and crap like that.
P.S. However if Texas went, and face it if they go Alaska would be right behind if not first, and perhaps another couple states on the Gulf (LA, Alabama) you are going to want to kick up that alternate to oil energy program sharply. Although it is guessed that there are significant reserves as far east as off the coast of Florida, Texas/LA/Alabama territorial waters + AK is effectively the current US oil production.
Kathy--
Well, right now they have 2 Republican Senators pretty much locked in stone, or 100% of their Senate members.
If they broke into 5 states, with 2 Senators apiece, the odds are that at least 4 of them would be Democrats, since I presume that 2 of the states would have majority Hispanic/other minority populations.
So, instead of having (41/100) of the Senate as they do now, they'd only have (45/108), which is about the same. If the Dems managed to squeeze a 5th moderate Dem Senator out of the deal, it would amount to the same thing as having 1 of the 2 current Senators (1 out of 2).
So naturally Delay, being who he is, was threatening that instead of seceding Texas would become 5 states and then have ten senators So perhaps we should be careful what we ask for.LOL. Of course that wouldn't happen. Because they wouldn't all stay Red. Yes, West Oklahoma would be as Red as a baboon's butt. However it would require some seriously crazy gerrymandering to keep the rest pure Red, much less keep the Presidential map from going partially blue.
LOL
There is only one thing wrong with Texas... it's full of Texans.
I too would join the Army and volunteer to shoot them steers.
liberal or conservative, anyone that thinks that allowing texas, or any part of the south to secede is missing a lot of what the region gives america--which is culture and most importantly music. texas and the south has created some of the best music of all time, and in several genres as well. not just country. classic rock, jazz, blues, etc. some of those originate from the south, and if not, they are dominated by artists from the south.
so to jump on the kick the texas/south out of the union bandwagon is just stupid. as a flaming liberal, i have no problem saying that i love going to texas and could easily see myself living there after college. and honestly, tell me where to find nicer people in the world.
"we elect our first black president and a former confederate state threatens secession"
*Virginia looks around nervously, twiddles its thumbs, whistles.*
Let's take DeLay up on his idea of splitting Texas into 4 states. Let's see. The State of El Paso, the State of South Texas, the State of Austin/Dallas (we'll run this along 35E Tom DeLay style), and the rest of Texas.
Obama won each area (and even barely eked out Houston). The Dems should take 5 to 6 of the 8 Senate Seats. DeLay understands how these things are done.
Dwight: While you are correct that Texas is a major oil producer for the US, it is also a major oil consumer. I don't know exact numbers but maybe we could actually come out ahead on the deal. The US might even be able to strike a deal with Canada, the number one oil importer to the US, to cut Texas off. See how long they can drive their Ford Expeditions on their own reserves.
If I move now I might be able to avoid the process of seeking political asylum. :)
"--George W. Bush would no longer be a United States Citizen, meaning that he could be legally held without charge or trial indefinitely, according to his own rules!"
That actually made me laugh. It's virtually the dictionary definition of irony.
Bonor: ethnic variant of much-loved House Minority Leader
Three guys are walking along the beach at Padre Island (in the Gulf of Mexico). One is from Massachusetts, one is from Louisiana, and one is from Texas. As they walk along one of them kicks a bottle half buried in the sand, knocking a cork out of the opening. A smoky clouds emerges from the bottle followed by what is obviously a genie. These guys have been to college, so they know the drill: three wishes. At first, the guy guy who kicked the bottle (the Texan, as it happens, and typically a selfish bastard, e.g. a Republican) says: “Hey. I’ve got three wishes coming!!” The other two guys beg to differ, since they’re good buddies and “three musketeer” types (though not gay, at least not the Texan) , so eventually they agree that each will get one wish. The Cajun goes first.
“Mr. Genie, do you know how the shrimp fishing has gone down faster than the economy under Bush?’
“Yes.”
Do you think you can fix that, you know, bring the shrimp back?”
“Certainly.” Whereupon the guy gestures toward the Gulf, and the shrimp actually start jumping out of the water, into the air.
“Wow.”, says the Cajun, “I gotta go get my boat and catch some of them guys!”
The Texan goes next. “You’all seem to be pretty powerful there, Mr. Genie, sir. Let me see….Can you build me a wall all around the Great State of Texas, and make it a thousand feet high and 100 feet thick, so we can keep out all them Yankees and those other folks from across the border?”
“Indeed, I can.” Another gesture, this time toward the center of the Great State. An enormous cloud of dusts travels all along the border of Texas as the Wall of Texas drops into place, squashing only a few stray cats trying to escape.
“Now that’s what I calls progress,” says our hero.
The Bostonian rubs his chin and scratches the back of his, deep in thought. The genie says: “Could you please speed it up a bit, I have a date in Tel Aviv tonight.”
“Tell me,” says the Back-bay aristocrat. “That wall you just made, is it watertight?”
“Well, yes, I believe it is.”
“Fill it.”
This whole talk of secession is utter nonsense on all sides. Just stop. Please.
And fuck everybody saying Texas should go. Texas is NOT limited to the backwards Republican and all of your simple, stupid stereotypes.
P.S. Austin is not worth half the praise y'all give it.
What about the longterm trends that look good for Democrats in Texas? We just have to wait this out - Perry could never be elected in Texas in say 2022.
Of course, as an independent nation Texas's non-Hispanic white population would be a minority. Wonder how the conservative secessionists would feel about that.
Side note: all this "but let's keep Austin" talk ignores two things: 1) Austin, though it has a fine music scene, is full of pretentious phonies; and 2) Obama's best major city in Texas was El Paso, where he got 66% of the vote. Plus, El Paso's on the edge of the state anyway, so it would be easier to hold on to from a practical perspective.
Dwight: While you are correct that Texas is a major oil producer for the US, it is also a major oil consumer. I don't know exact numbers but maybe we could actually come out ahead on the deal. The US might even be able to strike a deal with Canada, the number one oil importer to the US, to cut Texas off. See how long they can drive their Ford Expeditions on their own reserves.It isn't even close. I'm not sure of the TX to LA/AL split in territorial waters (it is trending away from TX I believe but I don't know the current split) but if the later two went with TX, AL is the majority of the rest (yeah there is some NG on the east side of the Rockies and CA has some oil production, and there is a bit scattered else where, but AL would be the core of oil). There is no way AL production could carry the current non-TX US consumption.
Or are you are thinking in terms of "consumption" being refining? Because a huge amount of the refining goes on along the Gulf coast. But that hardly counts as a lot of that then gets shipped out as gasoline, diesel, etc.
No, the rest of the US would be hoping that TX doesn't collude with Canada. Not that that is going to happen but that's how the power balance would lie.
Jeez.... there's a lot of people here who don't understand that people here are JOKING about kicking out Texas (and Utah and Oklahoma).... but on places like RedState it's considered serious policy discussion. :-P
America... love it or leave it.
Not all of Texas is a shithole. Living on a state with a Texas border with Texas, I have met a few Texans who were nice people.
I think it's just the whole, "everything is bigger in Texas" thing that makes the raging assholes really big assholes. Kinda distracts you from the good eggs, who just sort of blend right in with the general population.
Texas has almost 6% of the US GDP. Also, its unemployment rate is less than 7%. So...
The Texas right to divide into five states was a trade off for Texas giving up its land claims to the entire Rio Grande watershed, which includes Denver and Cheyenne.
The right to break into separate states was lost when Texas succeeded (the first time). The provision was not included when Texas was readmitted following the Civil War.
If Texas did succeed, maybe the Halliburton Chairman and CEO would move back from Dubai.
Texas has almost 6% of the US GDP. Also, its unemployment rate is less than 7%. So...... that means it is above median but well back in the pack on a per capita basis.
I think Statler has it though. At least through my limited experience. I sure hope so as I'm moving there in a couple months.
Aw. Fifteen years from now, I just can't wait until my babies ask me, "Mom, did you know that as soon as the first black president was elected, that's when Texas' governor said they wanted to secede?"
Because seriously, that's exactly what it's going to look like in their history book. Urgh.
We could rename the US: Northern Mexico.
Had we not accepted Texas into the Union, they would have retroceded to Mexico within a decade.
Today, they have their oil wealth, and that might keep them alive economically, especially since they would be less inclined to curb carbon emissions without the rest of the US telling them they have to.
There is, however, a finite amount of oil in Texas. And once that's gone, what would they have left? Solar, maybe, but if they haven't bothered to develop that technology, they're gonna have to buy it from us.
I say we charge em double, and leave the dried up husk of a country to beg Mexico to take them back.
If the Mexicans say no thanks, sorry-the oil's gone, so what have you got left that we would want-well, I guess then Haiti will become the second poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere instead of the first
Nate this is the best idea I've heard in a long time. I wonder if we can start a movement to ask Texas to secede? I once read a science-fiction book that had as a throw-away idea that a constitutional amendment had been passed that no individual from Texas could ever be elected President again. I always liked that idea but now I like yours better.
Not only would the intelligence level in the US go way up but the arrogance level would go down. Seriously when you try to talk to anyone from Texas it's like talking to two people - the actual person and their huge over-inflated pompus ego simply because they happened to born in Texas.
I've got an even better addition to your idea of Texas seceding is because we in the US like round numbers (50 states, 100 senators, etc.) when we boot Texas out of the Union we could give DC state rights. Imagine what that will do to the Democrats chances nationwide.
I will paraphrase the Republicans with "The USA, love it or leave it you Tex-Mex eatting, Alamo hugging, George Bush loving, JR Ewing wannabe Texans!"
You know what might be an interesting and fun post is an analysis of Tom Delay's suggestion that Texas could split into 5 states. How would that look?
(Obviously it is crazy-talk, but it'd be fun...)
You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas.
I love to see the rantings of a blowhard like Statler. As if Texas' wealth lies solely on oil. You are a liberal fool! Its economy would thrive beyond wonders without the perilous clutch of the oppressive US government. Fuck you all. The Lone Star State will rise again. After we secede and remove ourselves from the burden of you lily-livered scumbags, I want to declare war on Louisiana, just because Statler's faggoty ass wants to be on the front lines. He's probably too much of a pussy, but it doesn't matter either way, because whether he's on the front lines or has his dick buried in some bunker somewhere, we plan on killing every chump who tries to stand up to the Independant State of Texas.
Viva la Texas!
LOL, Crockett got screwed on that deal.
Listen, here is Governor Parry's comment line: (512) 463-1782
call the Gov and tell him that if he doesn't love America he should leave it. Ask the traitor why he hates his country.
Uh, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't this secession thing lead to a civil war last time?Yes, and aren't we just kicking ourselves now that we didn't let them go...
ALSO, anyone recall that Russian (I believe?) who predicted that the US would break up into six smaller governing bodies?
I think we should let Texas secede.
But we should warn them that if they do:
*They will get zero Federal money for anything they need
*There will be stiff, and I mean, heavy import and export taxes; if Texas wants to bring anything into their idiot Republic, they will pay dearly. If they want to export anything OUT of the Republic, they will pay dearly.
*They will have to pay extra to use their existing Interstate Highway roadways.
Seriously, I think all the idiotic morons in Texas do not realize how hard it would be if the Federal government called their bluff and let this happen.
I for one would miss nothing about Texas.
*They will get zero Federal money for anything they need
No shit sherlock. That's the point of seceding. To NOT be reliant on the federal gov't.
*There will be stiff, and I mean, heavy import and export taxes; if Texas wants to bring anything into their idiot Republic, they will pay dearly. If they want to export anything OUT of the Republic, they will pay dearly.
That's fine. Of course, you'd hurt the US (minus TX) as much or more than you'd hurt Texas. They have more than enough industry and agriculture to be self-supportive, but the US needs the oversupply of food and oil - BASIC COMMODITIES YOU NEED - to thrive. Go ahead an tax us dearly and see who pays.
*They will have to pay extra to use their existing Interstate Highway roadways.
Bull fucking shit. We take the highways with us as they're within our borders. How are you going to stop us? Declare a fucking war because we use the road system that's already in place. The US pussyfoots with Cuba, Russia, Iran, North Korea, China...do I need to keep going?...on far more egregious things, so do you think they'd risk a bloody conflict over a fucking highway system. I'm sure federal dollars paid in BY TEXANS more than covers the bill.
I don't think you realize how better off we'd be without your dumbasses. Call our bluff. See who benefits in the end. We wouldn't miss a damn thing about being a state in the (fucked up) Union.
Short of a Texas secession, I'd suggest a moratorium on electing "Texans" president.
But, if Texas wants to secede, I'd only like to encourage them to at least have the good nature to take the $7 trillion in debt their president and vice-president (Cheney's dog was a registered Texan no matter how loose Wyoming's resident requirements are) racked up over the last eight years.
Secessionist-
See ya! Lets see you and Alaska defend yourselves, we sure as crap are pulling all of your military out ASAP.
Say it like John McGlaughlin - BYE BYE!
Now that we have that out - only 13% of Texans support leaving the country, thus the fringe secessionists are even on the fringe IN TEXAS!
See Rasmussenreports.com for the numbers.
What would it ACTUALLY take to make this happen? I mean, assuming this wasn't mere rhetoric from the governor and he was totally serious, how would this happen? Sure he couldn't just declare it. Would it be a matter of the TX legislature voting to secede? Would the federal congress also have to vote to approve? Would it take a popular majority vote?
Seriously let them go. Give Texans who want to remain US citizens one year to pack up there shit and move. Oh yeah, and no take-backs. Once you're out of the union, you stay out.
I'm a little confused by the recent turn of events in Americans.
I mean, for the last 8 years, and hell, even during the Clinton administration, I always saw the Republican Party, or rather, the conservative part of the country as being very nationalistic.
I mean, what happened to all these 'flag waivers'?
I guess it should be "God Bless America (but only if there's a Republican President. If not, Fuck America, we're outta here)"
I would move to Texas in a heartbeat if they would become independent. At least they run a more logical government where adults run the show...not nannies trying to do everything for everybody. Screw the busybody congress of Nancy Pelosi!
Obama was handed the worst economy since the depression, two wars, a giant deficit, and a conservative movement hoping he fails.
guess what? He has the highest approval of any pres at this point in time IN A GENERATION!
http://www.gallup.com/video/117589/Obama-Month-Report-Card.aspx
I propose a new National Motto:
"E Pluribus Unum, unless the guy I wanted for President loses in which case I'm taking my ball and leaving."
Texans already think they're better than everybody else so let's just let ourselves be rid of the arrogant pricks and be done with it.
I always maintained that if we sold Texas to Mexico and Florida to Cuba that the United 48 would gain not only the money from the sale but a massive bump in average intelligence.
I understand that the whole "let them secede" thing is a joke-- I sat down and had a good, long laugh when I heard about it last night-- and I further understand that this is really just about Rick Perry posturing, but as a Civil War buff, I still find it unsettling.
Although Mr. Lincoln has always been my hero for preserving the Union and (ultimately) ending slavery, I have often wondered whether the cultural differences between the North and the former Southern Confederacy weren't such that they were, and in fact still are, different countries at heart. And I can't help but wonder how many people in 1860 New York or Boston laughed their heads off when they first heard the idea of states leaving the Union, thinking it was all so much crazy talk.
The bottom line: This is funny to an extent, but it's also a potentially big problem. This country is seriously divided in the hearts and minds of its people, and I'm not sure what can be done to heal it since the two sides often don't seem to be talking the same language...
You know, the Canadians have had their eye on Alaska for a while now... we get a good price, we might pay off Bush's war debt....
R. John
There's a stature in the middle of Jackson Square in the French Quarter of President Jackson. The base of it reads,
"The Union Must and Shall be Preserved"
Not everyone in the South hates America. Some of us are undyingly loyal to the Union, and will fight to save it.
This country was founded on secessionism...from the oppressive government of mother England.
Now, if we must do that again, let it be done, and may God grant us wisdom and favor in this hour as we break from the tyranny of King Obama.
England was never Louisiana's mother.
We're French,and damn proud of it. France was the mother of human rights, and the USA was the midwife.
Vive L'Etats Unites Liber!
Secessionist: This country was founded on secessionism...from the oppressive government of mother England.
Now, if we must do that again, let it be done, and may God grant us wisdom and favor in this hour as we break from the tyranny of King Obama.Tyranny? Obama rescinded Executive Orders that would have allowed the federal government to spy on and torture you. But raising the top marginal tax rate to 10% less than Reagan's is too much for a true patriot to bear...
As for how this nation was founded, it was as a colony breaking away from an oppressive and uncaring monarchy to achieve equality among citizens (that would be Americans enjoying the same rights as Britishers); not as a bunch of crybabies that lost an election because the policies they enacted were abysmal failures.
So the Republican governors of Alaska and now Texas have made some sort of seccesionist noise. Any contest to which is the more patriotic party?
I think the Texas secessionists and the AIP should run against each other in an election.... to see which is the bigger asshole
Ken,
The policies of both Bush and Obama are abysmal and epic failures. This should've been done a long time ago. You won't see me defending Bush. He was a war-mongering asshole big-spender who shit on the Constitution.
Obama is doing the same, except he has diarrhea.
GOP is now losing even republican moderates over teabagging and secession talk:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/17/tea-party-fallout-indepen_n_188235.html
Texas governor now back-pedaling as fast as he can. He didn't REALLY mean it.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/17/perry-says-secession-comment-misinterpreted/
Republicans are becoming fringe activists.
Secessionist: The policies of both Bush and Obama are abysmal and epic failures. This should've been done a long time ago. You won't see me defending Bush. He was a war-mongering asshole big-spender who shit on the Constitution.
Obama is doing the same, except he has diarrhea.Really? I would have thought that restoring habeas corpus and all the due process amendments might be seen beneficial to upholding the Constitution and our rights... But what do I know beyond what the Constitution actually says?
Incidentally, Texas was never English, either. Spanish and Mexican, yes, but never English.
You weren't involved int eh Revolutionary War, so how can you claim that as your heritage?
Having to get a visa every time I want to visit my mom would suck, but I'll live throug the pain.
@Sessecionist
I'm just wondering (and I don't mean this to sound condescending at all, I'm really just wondering) as to what policies of Obama are tyrannical? Websters defines "Tyrant" as "an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution." What policies enacted by the Obama Administration so far represent him as "an absolute ruler un restrained by law or constitution." What exactly has he done so far that has shown reckless disregard for the laws of the United States or the United States Constitution?
And please, I'm really looking forward to a response with clear examples of such behaviour (again that is not meant to sound condescending).
Someone needs to remind Perry that Texas being in the US is the only thing keeping it from being another battlefield in the Mexican Drug War.
Great post! I have long joking argued that the country would be better off without Texas. The last three Texan Presidents (if you count Bush I) all either started or escalated wars. W
I think that the states that tried to secede should be given a second chance. Too much tax money flows from north to southeast IMO.
Texas seceding…
Texas could vote to secede, convince itself that it had seceded, and although it wouldn’t be true all the lovely benefits of their action would accrue to the rest of us, the same way it did in the secession fervor of 1861. First and foremost would be that Texas would remove all its pestilential members of Congress. The Senate would still comprise 100 members, because secession is illegal, but two of its GOPers would be permanently absent, and at least 12 Republican’ts would go missing in the House.
It was this same desertion from Congress in 1861 that allowed some momentous legislation to finally be passed, most notably statehood for war-torn Kansas in January 1861.
So go ahead, Texass, talk yourselves into thinking you have seceded from the Union. The rest of us won’t have to put up with your idiots in Congress, but you’ll still be liable for your bills to the government. No need for a single soldier to cross into your territory—this time around we’ll have a much more effective blockade.
I find it interesting that after 8 years of Bush, people have the nerve to talk about Obama acting like a King. What the hell are you talking about? Where were your protests when Georgie boy and his crew were pissing all over the Constitution?
Stop being cry baby sore losers and live with the fact that you can't always get your way.
BTW, here is the latest on NY-20.
Brown said, Virginia looks around nervously,twiddles its thumbs, whistles.
This is at the prospect of Texas leaving.
As a life long Virginian I have to differ. Virginia is a different state than it was a generation ago.
Remember, Obama carried Virginia by about 7%. It is northern Virginaia that made the difference.
It was the first time Virginia voted for a Democrat at the presidential level since 1964.
As an organizer for the Obama campaign it is hard to describe my feelings at seeing an African American carry the state of Va.
As a 57 year old white male it was the first time that my vote actually was on the winning side for my state.From McGovern on it was heart breaking to see the Old Dominion bright red. At last our state has joined the human race.
Latest word from The Undead…
I find it interesting that after 8 years of Bush, people have the nerve to talk about Obama acting like a King. What the hell are you talking about? Where were your protests when Georgie boy and his crew were pissing all over the Constitution?Stop being cry baby sore losers and live with the fact that you can't always get your way..I find it amazing that everyone who looks ut those of us calling for a secession assume we were supportive of Bush's 8 years of gloom and are now just mad because we are "sore losers."
I can't speak for everybody, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm the head of a local secessionist unit - we're a group of maybe 200 folks just outside of Gilmer, TX. No one here, and I mean NO ONE, has voted for a presidential candidate of either major party in the thirty years I've been a member, and most haven't voted at all.
We're disgusted and outraged at BOTH PARTIES. At Washington DC, in general. It's just now being manifest and finally coming to a boil. Reaching critical mass, if you will.
Yes, we slander the name of Obama with taunts like "King" and such, but we were as much or more tormenting of the Bush regime. His was full of tyranny and oppression and our basic human rights were shat upon. Well, no more, my friends. We're leaving this once great country. You all can go to hell. As for me. I'm going to stay in Texas.
Oh come on Secessionist, I'm really looking forward to a response to my question (again, I'm really not as condescending as I sound)
To reiterate: I'm just wondering (and I don't mean this to sound condescending at all, I'm really just wondering) as to what policies of Obama are tyrannical? Websters defines "Tyrant" as "an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution." What policies enacted by the Obama Administration so far represent him as "an absolute ruler un restrained by law or constitution." What exactly has he done so far that has shown reckless disregard for the laws of the United States or the United States Constitution?
Secessionist said:
"and most haven't voted at all."
This speaks volumes.
I also find it interesting that these tea baggers complain about Obama's taxation policies when his policies provide something that the policies of Georgie-boy didn't...tax cuts for 90% of working Americans.
Again, the wealthy repub elite is playing the blue collar crowd like a violin. This group of neo-con elitists have the blue collar crowd out in the rain protesting tax policies that work to the favor of those same blue collar workers. Amazing!
Secissionist is a great charicture of the uneducated know-it-all southerner. He has no idea of the meaning of the words he spouts, but he is even more sure he is right. And that belief is based on ... nothing ...
what policies of Obama are tyrannical?
.
To broadly answer you question, he is laying the foundation for the biggest authoritarian power-grab since the conclusion of the Cold War. He is shifting all of the economic control from the private to the public sector. Then, it won't matter about social or foreign policy. The way you govern - or dictate (as in dictator) - is with power that comes through immense wealth. If he controls the exchange of currency and basically all other fiduciary transactions, then he will be a de facto dictator.
Shiner Bock is crap.
fred,
I've accomplished more this week than you ever will in your entire life. I hope to meet you in battle. Then I hope to kill you with my bare hands. I want my face to be the last thing you see as the life drains from your body.
I shall then send your corpse to your friends and family after it has been defecated on by 1,000 Texan militia men. You will see how we fight!
the biggest authoritarian power-grab since the conclusion of the Cold War? I think Georgie-boy has him beat on that.
Secessionist, you look forward to killing someone who disagrees with you with your bare hands? Sounds like you have some pretty authoritarian and dictatorial personality tendencies to me.
Oh wait, he called you names and insulted your manhood. OK. That changes things.
Getting back to the topic at hand, if it weren't for all of the people in Texas who really do love this country, I would say let them go. Maybe good ole Gov Perry (who won with less than 40% of the popular vote) can charter a cruise ship and take all of those secessionists off to an uncharted island somewhere so they can create their own utopian society and leave the rest of us alone.
OT
Murphy' now leads Tedisco by 264.
You know, there,s something about internet forums that turns us all into assholes.
It's very easy to say over the internet that you want to kill someone, it's very different when you see them in front of you. Even when you very easily could kill them, you still have to confront the fact that they are human, just like you.
Secessionist, I do not want to kill you. Not only are you at least nominally human, you're also an American, and killing one of my own would be even harder.
However, if you do decide to attack my country, I will do the very difficult thing required to defend it.
I will at least promise you a good burial on American soil. Before you secede, make provisions for your family.
And you let that brigand Obama show up in Texas for whatever reason, and I can promise you that we'll put his head on a stick to send a message. Don't fuck with Texas!
I'm sad that my state's governor decided to make us a national laughing stock. Our state government has a way of doing this. It always seems to coincide with the biennial legislative session, showing just how much stupidity exists in our state gov't. Hutchinson will be a huge improvement over Perry as gov, even though she's conservative too. This was him trying to look more "texan" than her in a futile attempt to win the coming republican primary.
For the record, Texas cannot legally secede from the United States.
In its defense, 5 out 6 of Tx's biggest cities voted for Obama. In 15 years, when the hispanic population starts to overwhelm the whites, you'll see the state vote very differently and hopefully choose better leaders.
"fred,
I've accomplished more this week than you ever will in your entire life. I hope to meet you in battle. Then I hope to kill you with my bare hands. I want my face to be the last thing you see as the life drains from your body.
I shall then send your corpse to your friends and family after it has been defecated on by 1,000 Texan militia men. You will see how we fight!"
Oh seccessioist, you make me smile. I have accomplished more in my life but we can leave that to independent arbiter after you kill me (I am very scared).
As for 1,000 Texas militia - we already know how pickup trucks a few grenades stand up to Bradley Fighting Vehicles and a well trained army, not to speak of M1's.
Keep it up, you will soon become the poster boy for right wing crazies. Oh, you already are...
Fuck you Statler. I will bloody you beyond recognition, gouge your eyes out with my bare hands, and impale you with a tomato stick.
@ Secessionist:
I think what shoebox81 is getting at is something like the list of grievances put forward in the Declaration of Independence. Go back and read that and you'll see it is very specific list of particular acts. It is not broad and vague, like illucid assertions of "laying the foundation for the biggest authoritarian power-grab" or "shifting all of the economic control". No, rather it is a list of real and tangible acts.
As Jefferson so eloquently put it, "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they [who wish to secede] should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
If you can't put together something that at least tries to be near as articulate as that, then you and your movement will inevitably be perceived as loony nut-jobs. Sorry, but that is just the way of the world.
By the way, in case you are serious about taking up arms and killing people for your cause, you are deluding yourself if you think there is any hope of success. You'll be put down like a bunch of Branch Davidians.
Secessionist, have you just posted a death threat on the President of the United States?
I do very much intend to fuck with Texas.
that all sounds fine.... but what about liberal texans like me?
Hey, look close, I think that is seccisionist taking on the U.S. Army!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXL8HSoZ-3k
Luckily Sully, their are only 13% of Texans who want to secede. Lets make fun of them for a day.
Sully, move East to New Orleans
'Secessionist' must be a joke. Nobody in AD 2009 actually uses the word 'brigand' in political discussion.
comes: comes over here, Lyndon Johnson is turning in his grave.
Secessionist, this is what I know.
- President Obama has not taken away anybody's rights, nor has he shown the intention of doing so.
- You have provided no good reason whatsoever as to why you think Obama is out to take those rights away from you or anyone else.
- You have used words like "tyrannical," "authoritarian," and "totalitarian" to describe the Obama administration. These are not words with murky definitions. Historians look at past dictators and judge whether or not they were tyrannical or totalitarian by their actions. We must do the same when judging all past, present, or future administrations.
If you cannot argue your point of views argumentatively, then there's absolutely no reason for anyone else to believe that it's true.
There is a significant difference between believing that Obama is a tyrant at this moment in time, and being worried that circumstances might lead this or future administrations to have more power than they should.
What you are saying is that Obama is a tyrant NOW but you can't provide any proof as to how he fits the definition of a tyrant at this moment in time. Therefore your claim that Obama is a tyrant must be rendered false until you can do so.
After all, if you love the rule of law so much, as any anti-tyrant would, isn't Obama 'innocent until proven guilty'?
Okay, fair enough shoebox. So put me down for two helpings of this
"and being worried that circumstances might lead this or future administrations to have more power than they should."
Everyone go to Huffington Post and VOTE YES! On their survey to see if Texas should be allowed to secede! So far 54% have voted yes let them! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/17/state-department-lists-te_n_188151.html
Secessionist said...
And you let that brigand Obama show up in Texas for whatever reason, and I can promise you that we'll put his head on a stick to send a message. Don't fuck with Texas!
This is a direct threat on the life of the POTUS. I hope you'll be getting a knock on your door very soon. It'll be nice to have people like you off the street.
Secessionist said...
Fuck you, Catfish.......
And fuck you, shoebox.
Secessionist said...
Fuck you Statler.
Oh, and your command of the English language is quite impressive. You must've gone all the way through the 6th grade. Congratulations.
Oh, and to beat you to the punch:
"Fuck you, Catfish...."
You can just copy that and add whatever else you want to it.
This discussion leads to a mind game I like to play, similar to Fantasy Football, but let's call it Fantasy Country.
We start by dividing the country into red and blue states through something akin to the NFL draft. The Blues get 6 picks for every 4 picks the Reds get (in keeping with current Senate proportions). When all 50 states have mapped into either the Blue country or the Red country we allow a few years for migration of citizens to their preferred country. Then we formalize two countries. (The only caveat is that the Blues MUST take New York and California).
Then the Blue country can have its progressive, strong central government and the Red country can have its minimalist central government and free-market capitlaism.
I'd wager that withiong two generations the GDP and standard of living of the Red country would far exceed that of the Blue. Active encourgaement of individual initiative and freedom will beat the pants off centrally planned and mandated social behavior every time. This result would be fairly independent of the natural resources in the states. It will be people and human behavior driven.
There you go, that's not so bad is it.
And granted, there's nothing wrong with expressing concern for you and your country's future.
But I hardly see how that concern makes a rash act such as secession justifiable.
I mean, the United States government circa 2002-2003 was "worried" that Saddam Hussein had nuclear weapons and they used this to justify going to war. Now, the whole region is destabilized and thousands of America's best have been killed over that 'concern.'
So while there's nothing wrong with expressing concern (and gosh-darn-it, you have every right to do so) it's not such a good idea to use this to justify rash acts with tremendous and irreversible consequences
Shoebox81:
Let me mention two area to start as a response to your question:
1. Obama has refused to issue proof that he is a natural born citizen and thus entitled to serve as President. All he has issued is a Certificate of Live Birth which definitely does not prove he is a natural born citizen. And he has hired lawyers to fight court actions requestig proof of citizenship. The major question remains, if he is a natural born citizen why not simply show us the documents? The fact that he won't raises the distinct possiblity that he is in fact a tyrant ignoring the Constitution.
2. Obama has appointed a number of "Czars" to drive implementation of desired programs (health care, environment, etc). Their charter goes well beyong just legislative liason. Why is the Chief Executive attempting to usurp the power of the Legislative branch of government?
Secessionist, Contrarian and Smoking Aces..Amazing how all three use the same vocabulary and how their sentence structure is so similar!
The Three Faces of Evil.Or Cerberus,the three headed dog
DFTT
this is a "we're better than you" blog. no more. no less. get over yourself.
Chris
@Leave_me_alone:
Obama is a natural born citizen. See both this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp and this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
I don't see how you can assert that that Certificate of Live Birth (a/k/a birth certificate) from the State of Hawaii isn't proof of natural born citizenship.
Wow, that map of the U.S. just doesn't look right without Texas... :(
Besides, Perry should remember the state capital is still in Austin.
"All he has issued is a Certificate of Live Birth which definitely does not prove he is a natural born citizen."
What I have found amusing about this whole thing is how many right-wingers suddenly became expert in the vital records practices of the state of Hawaii. Somehow they believe that "certificate of live birth" just has to be something different from a birth certificate. I assume they are basing this on their extensive first-hand knowledge of vital records in Hawaii.
fred said:
"The party of Lincoln is slowly but surely morphing into a blatantly anti-American, extremely corrosive political party, they speak of how American they are, but they are only American when they can institute their will as glorious religious white people over the rest of us.
So much for the pro-American party image - they're showing their true colors now! They must be called on this, this is fundamental. They scream saying something against the President is un-American when Bush is in office, but they can not only slam the President but literally talk about secession when a Dem takes over!
The Governor of Texas should be recalled from office for openly encouraging talk about Texas seceding from the union."
I don't want to agree with you, but in a nutshell, that's why I'm planning on registering Republican so I can vote in the 2010 and 2012 primaries. I don't like the way the Democrats have been running things, so, I want to help put a Republican from the party of Lincoln on the general ballot instead of just standing by and watching jackholes in the mold of Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, and John Boehner beat out Huntsmans, Specters, and Crists.
It wouldn't all be positives if Texas weren't in the Union, not by a damn sight. There's no need to attack Texas. Hell, Democrats could even win Texas if they campaigned there.
Ziegler unhinged:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/17/john-ziegler-palin-activi_n_188209.html
Icesong said... It wouldn't all be positives if Texas weren't in the Union, not by a damn sight. There's no need to attack Texas. Hell, Democrats could even win Texas if they campaigned there.
Democrats already win the educated portions of Texas. Anywhere in Texas that has a concentration of people with higher education is a place that is almost solidly Democratic.
That said, Texas is a solidly Republican state. Infer what you will.
What the hell is wrong with you Secessionist, err Smoking Asses, err Ass Rider?
No matter what handle you use, you are the same cowardly, vitriolic moron.
To broadly answer you question, he is laying the foundation for the biggest authoritarian power-grab since the conclusion of the Cold War. He is shifting all of the economic control from the private to the public sector.So you are against majority shareholders having the ability to set company policies and direction?
I didn't know you were so anti-corporate.
How about you specify the elements of this alleged foundation?
Leave-me-alone
I believe I am right in saying that the whole birth certificate thing is a bit of a red herring anyway. Obama's mother is a natural born citizen, and Obama qualifies through her, together with his own residency. And surely its a bit late now to be whining about his qualifications. If there were genuine concerns they should have been dealt with long before even November.
And give us an example of a position that Obama appointed, that Bush didn't, that he has given legislative powers to, rather than simply administrative/delegated executive powers.
Secessionist, Contrarian and Smoking Aces..Amazing how all three use the same vocabulary and how their sentence structure is so similar!All just Mule Rider under a different name. Nothing intelligent there. Move on.
1. Obama has refused to issue proof that he is a natural born citizen and thus entitled to serve as President. All he has issued is a Certificate of Live Birth which definitely does not prove he is a natural born citizen. And he has hired lawyers to fight court actions requestig proof of citizenship. The major question remains, if he is a natural born citizen why not simply show us the documents? The fact that he won't raises the distinct possiblity that he is in fact a tyrant ignoring the Constitution.
2. Obama has appointed a number of "Czars" to drive implementation of desired programs (health care, environment, etc). Their charter goes well beyong just legislative liason. Why is the Chief Executive attempting to usurp the power of the Legislative branch of government?1. You are a nut job. Do you really think Hillary, McCain and Palin wouldn't have raised this? Do you really think the democratic party wouldn't have verified, especially when Hillary would have beaten any Republican ticket?
2. Bush did the same, as did Clinton, as did Bush I and even Reagan used that term. The term annoys me, but they have little real power. It is like the media appending -gate to every scandal. The term does not imply they have powers like the Russian Czars. That is just some warped fantasy of yours. They can't make law, obviously(which blows your uninformed blather away), and have little room to set policy. It is mainly stuff like marketing, and if a specific law should be enforced more strongly or weakly. Stuff that aligns policy with goals.
How does one become a right wing nut job? Is it hereditary, upbringing, or just total disinterest in the world and educating ones self?
Since we've crossed politics and beer, let me just say Shiner is great for what it is - a smooth drinking, mildly hopped bock. Served ice cold it is far superior to any mass produced lager (basically anything in the mainstream lines of Bud, Coors or Miller). I like it when I want to drink several beers at a sitting (I'd be thrilled to see it at a ballpark for example). It fills the same niche that Henry Weinhard's used to on the West Coast (no idea if they are still even in business). However, its not going to hold up flavor wise to a great ale, strong IPA or dark and black ales, scottish oatmeal stouts, Belgian doubles and triples, etc.
OT
Murphy ends the week with a lead of 273.
Berkeley Bear, could you recommend a mildly hopped porter?
A microbrew near where I used to live had the most drinkable porter I've ever had... and I can find nothing like in the stores or at other microbreweries. I'm not a huge fan of hops, and I like Shiner just fine... what say you recommend a porter?
Another vote for giving it back to Mexico. And for making the Dallas Cowboys into a soccer team.
I'm sorry man, but it's one thing to pick on Texas because we have a lot of whackjobs, but honestly, the way everyone treats the state as if it's a single entity is just offensive.
Liberal Texans don't want to leave Texas, we want to change the state we love. I don't want to move somewhere just so people will agree with me or feel the way I do because you know what? There's just something special about Texas (and most Texans).
One thing Texas appears to lack, based on one of its citizens' posts here, is civility:
Secessionist said...
Fuck you, Catfish. I'm all for leaving fred alone but with his mouthing and shit-talking, I just laid out a scenario. If he chooses to do battle, he will meet his death at my hands or those of the likes of me.
And fuck you, shoebox. This isn't a step by step process to where you can unequivocally label each and every one as his non-disputable rise to authoritarian power. It's always subtle and coy. That's how any good dictator and tyrant rises to power. Obama is no different. He's charmingly winning over millions so he can subvert the millions of others who disagree with him. He's out to destroy those who don't act like him, think like him, etc.
You are one of the ones he has charmed. Me? Not so much. This is an attack on me and others like me. You are kowtowing to his totalitarian rule. That's fine. If you choose to give up personal liberties to bow to the king's wishes, go right ahead. I, however, choose a different path.
Not being able to get Shiner products in New York is the great failure of this state. If Texas secedes, I might have to move back and go with it just for the Shiner.
I think it is hard for Secessionist to understand that he is on the fringe. I also understand what it is like to be so identified. I am an ethical vegan. Only about 1% of the people in this country would claim that distinction. As much as I wished that my views on the wholesale slaughter of non-human animals were shared by a majority of this country I understand that they are not.
Secessionist believes that his view is in the process of becoming a majority view. He is quite wrong.
Wake up and smell the coffee(or in your case bacon)the secessionist movement is and will always be a minority, fring view.
perry is an embarrassment to texas. ughhh. we can't succeed, i live here and then i'd be trapped with a bunch of crazies!
Nate, is your math right regarding the 2004 election? Bush beat Kerry 286 to 252. If you take away the 34 electoral votes from Texas, the score is 252 to 252. Using your chart, Kerry states would have been worth an extra 19 electoral votes compared with an extra 13 electoral votes for Bush. If Texas were not in the union, Kerry would have defeated Bush 271 to 265.
Yawn. Nothing like a secession thread to bring out the trolls.
Seriously, the South isn't all bad. Yeah, we vote for the wrong guy most of the time, but disagreeing with you doesn't make us un-American (although calling for secession totally does).
"The other guy winning" is not an acceptable definition for tyranny. This applies to teabaggers bitching about Obama as well as liberals bitching about the South.
This sounds like a wonderful idea. Lets get rid of the state that has the 2nd largest economy in the US as well is the number 1 exporter in the US.
Who needs institutions like N.A.S.A and companies like Texas Instruments, Dell and Southwest Research?
Why would you want a state with the most Fortune 500 companies?
Lets also get rid 2 major universities of 45,000 plus.
I really thinks it's a good idea to tip the scales so the US has a one party system. That's very conducive to innovation and creativity. You should be open minded to all opinions as long as they coincide with our platform. Otherwise you're an inbred hick
Lets get rid of the state that is the 6th largest in wind energy, 6th in the world that is, and number 1 in the US. I mean, I'm pretty sure the green initiative is just some fad.
I guess it's kind of funny that “open minded” Northerner is stereotyping people they have never met from a state they have never been to as morons. Guess y'all are basing your opinions on info from Fox News or CNN. What an excellent source for news.
I'm from Texas and I think it is outrageous what Rick Perry is saying. Not to mention that he was somehow elected for a second term.
If Texas goes.. rest assured every other decent state (AL, AR, GA, LA, SC, TN, MS, etc...) would soon join them. If the federal government keeps taking power away from the states.. then this where we're heading. The people can only take so much.
Can we vote Texas out? I mean, it is their idea. I think the rest of us should endorse it.
The 1845 treaty is null and void,
Texas VIOLATED that treaty by succeeding in 1861, which means the relevant controlling document is their readmission after the defeat of Texas ET AL in the civil war when congress readmitted Texas in 1870 ..
Once you break a treaty and LOSE, you can't claim the treaty later, but must hold to what ever the terms of surrender you accepted
Thank you Tyler for one of the only logical comments on this story.
Most of America has no concept of what it actually means to live in Texas. I have hosted a large number of visitors from other states and they are all completely suprised at what they see.
Don't forget that Texas produces 28% of the US oil and natural gas production and has 25% of US refining capacity.
But one of the real treasures of Texas is the people. Can you call your neighbor at 3 in the morning because you're out of town and your alarm system is going off? Do you get 10s of offers to help you get your car started when you're in a parking lot with the hood up? Do you get a wave and a smile and a hello while you're walking into the grocery store? If you don't live in Texas, likely not.
I think we should have let the south go in the civi war. The north would be like Europe, and the south would be a third world backwater.
The red states take in more aid from the federal government than they pay in taxes. Good riddance!
Jacque',
Do you have French heritage (that "e' " at the end of your name would seem to indicate that you have the heritage of one of the countries, most likely France, that speaks a Romance language)?
If so, how can a honest Reichwinger admit a French heritage? Didn't you know we didn't have French Fries, but Freedom Fries? Didn't you know that it's now called Freedom Toast by all the honest Reichwingers?
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
Greg said...
Nate, is your math right regarding the 2004 election?Small problem with what you stated.
The states in Nate's list in blue are for states that went for President Obama in 2008, but not necessarily for Kerry in 2004. For instance:
- Florida went for little shrub in 2004.
- Indiana went for little shrub in 2004.
- North Carolina went for little shrub in 2004.
- Virginia went for little shrub in 2004.
- Ohio went for little shrub in 2004.
Mike in Maryland
My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965
Tyler,
I'm a Southerner too. And if Texas hates America so badly its governor talks about secession-keeping in mind that the troops in our military services are part of that government you so despise-if you're going to spit on our vets like that, fuck you.
If you are going to spit on the democracy that allows the majority of your countrymen to elect their leaders even when those leaders are people of the opposing political party to yours, then fuck you.
If you cannot bring yourself to do your civic duty and pay taxes like the rest of us, fuck you.
We can disagree-that's a right enshrined in our Constitution. You do not however have the right to malign your countrymen like that.
Not every Texan is/was an asshole. LBJ was pretty awesome, as was Ann Richards. Kinky Friedman and Willy Nelson are great people too. Billy Gibbons plays good music, Lloyd Bentsen gave an amazing speech. Eisenhower saved our collective asses in WW2 and did a good job as President. Steve Martin is still a funny guy, when he isn't acting in cheesy movies about how obnoxious it is to be a parent. Bill Hicks, wherever he is, was profound.
My issue is not so much with Texas as it is with the idea that your state is somehow superior to the other 49-that any state could be superior to any other. My issue is with the idea that, when we are faced with incredibly tough times as we are now, your governor would take a chunk of bailout money and then insult the very country that gave him that cash as soon as we handed it over to him. You've got carry your own weight, you have to do your part-not stab us in the back for a cheap political stunt.
I hear 13% of your state wants to hand us the ultimate fuck you and leave the Union. That's alot of people for the second most populated state in the country, alot of ingrates who think they can insult the shit out of us and get away with it.
Fuck Texas. You want to rip us off for all that stimulus money and then run like a little punk? I say we kick your asses out and see how long you last without the rest of us backing you up in your times of need. You want to stab us in the back? That knife cuts both ways. Those NASA bases are US Government Property-Texas didn't build that shit. We can take it back any time we want to. The land grants those universities were built on? You now owe us the property values for that land we gave you to build a university on. And for all the financial aid grants for the students that attended there.
As for wind energy, you sure do generate alot of hot air, so I guess you got us there.
I'm ashamed of my governor too. I wish we could send him and Perry up on a one way ticket to the lunar surface from that space station of yours.
Still, I know better than to get offended when people get upset at the bullshit Jindall spews. Anybody with a brain would get upset. It's no insult to Louisiana or to me that they want to see him gone. I want him gone, too.
So why are you getting so upset that we think Parry's a dickhead too?
America-love it, or get the fuck out.
@Secessionist,
Stop fucking trolling. Do you honestly have nothing better to do than post bullshit on the Internet in an attempt to piss people off? Seriously, that's just pathetic.
As for Texas, well, I couldn't care less if they seceded.
shoebox81 wrote:
"What you are saying is that Obama is a tyrant NOW but you can't provide any proof as to how he fits the definition of a tyrant at this moment in time. Therefore your claim that Obama is a tyrant must be rendered false until you can do so."
It's simple really.
The Right "knows" what Obama is "really" up to. No matter what he says or does, they know the "truth". He will raise taxes, because that's what Democrats do. He will take dictatorial actions, abolish the Constitution, put the wingnuts in FEMA camps, etc because he's that kind of guy. They "know" all of this. It's not borne from reason, but rather a visceral hatred.
We just saw 300K protesting against an imaginary President that exists only in their own minds.
Asking for proof of these assertions is pointless. It only proves to them that you are "brainwashed".
There are remarkable similarities to a cult mentality in this fringe.
SNW wrote:
"My issue is not so much with Texas as it is with the idea that your state is somehow superior to the other 49"
I agree completely. It's the rank arrogance that galls me.
There are "good people" in every state.
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