4.29.2009

But Now He's *Our* No-Good, Dirty Rotten Bastard

One criticism of Arlen Specter I don't quite get, at least coming from liberals, is that his party switch reflects poorly on his character. Glenn Greenwald and Jon Chait, who don't actually agree on all that much, respectively call him "soul-less", and an "unprincipled hack".

Of course this is true, in so far as it goes. Specter has not been shifting to the left gradually over time, as one might expect from someone whose ideology was slowly "maturing". Rather, according to DW-NOMINATE data, he's actually moved slightly to the right in recent years, along with the rest of the Republican Party.

But if you're a Democrat, would you really want Arlen Specter to be anything other than a soulless, unprincipled hack? If Specter were more concerned about self-consistency -- and less about self-preservation -- he'd probably still be a Republican right now. Moreover, Democrats had better hope that Specter is as nakedly power-hungry as possible, because his best move from the standpoint of self-preservation is probably not merely to become a Democrat but to become a reasonably liberal one, along the lines of Bob Casey Jr.

There are, of course, two things you can do with a politician whose views you disagree with. The first thing is to elect him out of office; the second is to apply pressure -- whether moral, intellectual, political, or financial -- to get him to change those positions. In this case, the pressure placed upon Specter seems to have worked! True, we do not yet know exactly which positions he'll be changing along with his party label. He says he won't be changing his position on EFCA, for instance -- ironically, this is probably because he just flip-flopped that very issue last month. But the odds are very high that he'll be changing on at least some, reasonably important issues.

Voters, of course -- and human beings in general -- have a strong revulsion to inconsistency. When I'm trying to decide who to vote for, I factor in not only the articulated positions of the candidate but also an assessment of how likely he is to change them (in ways that I do not like). Past history weights heavily here. I never warmed to John Edwards, for example, because the campaign he was running in 2008 -- although I preferred his positions on issues like health care to the other candidates -- was fairly inconsistent with the one he had run in 2004, and far more inconsistent with the fairly conservative voting record he had accumulated in the Senate.

Then again, there is an odd kind of predictability about someone who is so craven as to constantly be shifting his position with the political winds. Just look up the latest Gallup polling and there you go!

110 comments

straub459 said...

first!

But also, isn't it moreso in the interest of Dems to just field an actual Dem in an election against Toomey rather than hope that Specter will drift ideologically? This just smacks so hard of Joe Lieberman it kills me.

counsellorben said...

Nate,

The consistency which the voters of Pennsylvania most appreciate about Arlen Specter is his ability to deliver, and his constant appearances to meet with Pennsylvanians all across the state.

The hard right and hard left will express their revulsion about his faithlessness, but those voters were never going to support Arlen anyway. Net result:  Arlen will have the necessary support to continue his political career until he decides to end it (or death ends it for him).

Statler N Waldorf said...

Having Obama agree to campaign for you is a pretty important thing for a Senator who's re-election chances are dicey.

Don't think that comes for free. The Democrats are going to want him to vote with the party on some issues he wouldn't normally do so in exchange for their support.

You buy the blue plate special, you gotta eat all of it-the good and the bad.

Jim said...

Hey Nate. How about updating the senate rankings to reflect the switch? Or at least change his color to blue. Thanks

Juris said...

The Dems don't need his vote on everything. For sure they'll get it on health care, maybe on cap & trade, and probably on quite a few judicial nominations. It will be interesting to see how his committee assignments might change.

Nick said...

Hey Nate. How about updating the senate rankings to reflect the switch? Or at least change his color to blue. ThanksI wish he'd change it to the least likely to switch. Since no actual Democrat is going to run, that seat will stay Republican, whether Toomey or Specter.

Chris Of Rights said...

Bingo!

He's going to the left. And hard. And fast.

straub is correct that it would be better to have an actual Democrat oppose Toomey, if they could get one with his name recognition and who would appeal to moderates for free.

Of course, they can't. And, as I said in my last comment, I expect Toomey to outspend Specter by a pretty hefty margin in this campaign. The last thing the Democrats need is a drawn out primary draining war chests.

Toomey will do better among conservative voters than Specter did. Latest polls indicate that he was already within spitting distance among so-called "moderate Republicans", and now will certainly capture a significant chunk of that vote.

But Specter will likely do better among the truly independent minded voter.

He just needs to get true D's out to vote for him. How's he going to do that? Move left. It's his only option.

Expect Specter to be an honest politician until at least next November, i.e., one that "stays bought".

jfruh said...

The data from yesterday, about how congresspersons and senators shift their voting after switching parties, was intriguing. I suppose it probably indicates how strong an influence party whips have on votes. I imagine that, to be honest, on a lot of issues (particularly ones that aren't hot-button) a senator doesn't actually have a particularly strong opinion and can be convinced with a fair amount of ease to go along with the party caucus -- either by the whips or by more diffuse social pressure.

Chuck said...

If the Pennsylvania Democrat rolls are still stuffed with former independents and republicans who went D in '08 for the presidential primary vote, then it is entirely possible that a less liberal candidate will do better in the Democrat's primary.

tim1283 said...

Is it possible that the current shift to all blue in the Northeast and almost all red in the Southeast has a historical mirror in the leadup to the civil war?

Lutton said...

Specter seems to orient himself to derive power: as the fate of legislation in the senate lays in the hands of a small group of senators, Specter included.

IMO, he had to switch parties: he was no longer calling the shots as a Republican, the shots were being called for him.

Which is why so many on our side are off-put. Ask not what Arlen can do for you, ask what you can do for Arlen.

Jim Ryan said...

Anyone who's ever been to his Senate Office knows Numero Uno to Arlen Specter is Arlen Specter. I visited there earlier this decade, the walls of the waiting area were covered with extra large photo's of Specter with famous people (athletes, the president, the pope), and on the wall of his conference room was a blown up flow chart of HillaryCare (it had been there at least 8 years at that point...).

Erikson said...

I wish progressives would get some realism about Specter. This is the same guy who voted for a stimulous package that was HATED by the rest of his party. There is no reason to think that he won't at least vote for CLOTURE on most of the important bills - which is what we need in the first place to enact progressive reform.

The guy has been a Democratic Senator for ONE DAY. Give him a chance before you condemn him.

http://democratictribune.com

Dave said...

There is no reason to think that he won't at least vote for CLOTURE on most of the important billsSure there is. Becoming a dependable vote for cloture greatly reduces his influence. He's going to make Democrats beg for vote 60 just as he would be making Republicans beg for vote 41.

Raj said...
This post has been removed by the author.
namentstone said...

Do we know *when* Specter is becoming a Democrat? Is he staying a Republican until his next term begins in 2011? Because the Senate website still lists him as a Republican, and nobody's yet told me when he plans to notify the Senate clerks to render his switch official.

EmonOkari said...

quote: "Is it possible that the current shift to all blue in the Northeast and almost all red in the Southeast has a historical mirror in the leadup to the civil war?"

Regarding the politics that led up to the American Civil War, I highly recommend Bruce Catton's work on the subject: 'The Coming Fury'.

http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Fury-American-Civil-Trilogy/dp/1842122924(back cover)
The first book in Bruce Catton's monumental American Civil War trilogy opens with the Democratic Party's Charleston Convention in 1860 and the split which ended with two Democratic candidates for the Presidency, followed by the Republican Convention and the campaign which ended in Lincoln's victory. With tension mounting, it then covers the wave of the secessionist movement in the South, the firing of the first shots at Ft. Sumter, and finishes with the first battle of the war at Bull Run.

Bruce Catton superbly conveys, at every stage, the way the country first drifted, and then was inescapably swept, into war. We see Lincoln and Jefferson Davis, even after Fort Sumter, declaring that a peaceful solution could still be found and, famously, Robert E. Lee, who opposed slavery, preparing to fight for the Confederacy while the slave owning William T. Sherman lines up with the North.

Erikson said...

Perhaps he will make them earn it, but I think all this conjecture is useless until he actually lets us down. Let him vote a few times on important legislation before you lop off his political head.

Mhera13 said...

Seems an awfully harsh assessment of the Senator. If Pennsylvanians didn't like him, thought he was too inconsistent or self-serving, we wouldn't have elected him 6 times and he wouldn't have been polling on top in a theoretical 2010 general election.
I don't feel that not wanting to be judged against the likes of Pat Toomey by Pennsylvania's now minority party is self-serving to the point of inconsistency. Staying in office to serve one's constituency IS part of a politician's job description. As far as I know, Pennsylvania Democrats are happy to be able to elect him again in 2010.

Pot Kettle Black said...

What the frothers don't want you to think about is the correct framing of Specter's "switch" rather than the "flip flop"/soul-free frame they want you to buy.

How about this take:
Specter has a set of core values. Like everyone, he's gotten a little more conservative as he's gotten older.
But, while he's been moving to the right at say 1% a year, the Republicans have been moving to the right at 5%. After 3 years, they are 12% more conservative than Mr. Specter.
At the same time, the Democrats have been building this "big tent." You don't have the be an East Coast liberal to be a Democrat anymore.

What is a principled person to do?
Stay in a party he doesn't agree with? Or jump to the other side of the aisle to be with the party that closer melds to his actual values?

That's the framing. The Republicans are so far right that even a life long Republican moderate like Arlen Specter cannot sit with them anymore.

Seth said...

In fairness to Greenwald, it wasn't about changing positions over time. During debate of the bill, Specter declared that the Military Commissions overturned 900 years of habeas corpus and was unconstitutional. A few days later, he voted for it. Those two facts are hard to reconcile without the word craven.

Glenn Doty said...

tim123 -

I don't think you need worry so much about polarization.

The South is far less of a neo-con haven then it was 4 years ago, it's just that 4 years ago the South was so very solidly neo-con that even with the 4-6% shift in the country's political alignment, the South (and the Midwest) is still red while most of the rest of the country has turned blue.

But the 2008 elections showed better for the democrats in basically every state than 2004 - if not for president than certainly for down ballot and overall turnout.

The entire nation is turning blue.. the South and Midwest just had more people that were red to begin with.

davidbach said...

Nate - you do not mention that the 'pubs effectively threw him out of the party by mounting a virtually certain primary challenge. Not exactly a vote of confidence in a sitting senator!

Secondly, do the PA Dems. have any say in this? Maybe the chairman of the PA Dems. should summon him forthwith to explain that they already have viable (read: almost certain to win - he should understand that!) candidate(s). Maybe he should change his tune on EFCA? (Which should not be hard.) Dance with our band or face a really tough primary.

Andrew Selbst said...

Nate,

You quote Greenwald's post, yet neglected to mention that if the reports he mentions are true, the the Dems have agreed not to run a real Dem against him, and this party switch ends up hurting the Dems in the long run.

You're ignoring this is saying that Specter will have motivation to be Bob Casey-like, because if he has no financially supported primary opponent, he has no motivation. And while the reports for now seem not very solid, it wouldn't really be all that surprising for Dems to do that given their extremely conservative, insider-supporting track record of the last decade.

Juris said...

The logic being applied here isn't compelling at all.

If an elected representative is "middle of the road" (as Specter is on average) that means he's a lot more likely to flip from Left to Right and back to Left from issue to issue, or over time, than is someone who's on the far liberal or far conservative end of the ideological spectrum.

It's the nature of being a centrist that he's likely to appear to be inconsistent, depending on the substantive legislative issues involved and in how those issues are framed.

You cannot a "consistent centrist"; you can only be a centrist "on average."

Berkeley Bear in Illinois said...

I continue to be amused by the idea that Specter as a D doesn't count unless he becomes a full throated liberal and supports every single thing labeled a liberal priority - a standard not requested or reached by at least a dozen current Dem Senators. The Democratic party is not the party of liberals exclusively, and shouldn't be seeking to be that if it wants to have a strong national voice. Pennsylvania isn't a "liberal" state, either, despite voting D in the Presidential election. Specter's position on most issue seems to line up pretty well with the electorate of Pennsylvania, whereas Toomey has very limited appeal outside of the deep red base and PA's rural T section.

I think Specter has about as much chance of losing in a general election to Toomey as Evan Bayh would have of losing to a far left liberal in Indiana (like Julia Carson's grandson who is the new rep for urban Indianapolis) if Bayh switched to an R. Or Dick Durbin would have of losing to Jesse Jackson Jr. if Durbin turned red for some nutty reason. Only a strong third party spoiler would make this race competitive.

tobwot said...

I think what a lot of people don't realize is the Democratic party is a lot more centrist and moderate in general than the shrieking extremist types say it is; when the Dem presidential primaries were getting under way, Dennis Kucinich said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I'm not really that far left, it's just that all these others are to the right of me." And while I think Kucinich is one of the more leftist Representatives, I do think he had a point. Compared to the politics of many other countries, the United States has barely seen the "left".
The Democrats are predominantly centrists and get tugged toward the left by a small but vocal subset. The Republicans are predominantly right and get tugged toward the center by a small and frequently ignored subset.
If Specter wants to be able to vote his conscience as a moderate, he almost had to become a Democrat.
Is it a switch to save his own ass from being soundly kicked in the GOP primary? Of course it is. Does it make logical sense for him to do it for reasons outside of that. Damn right it does.

http://tobwot.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/damn-specter-stealing-my-thunder/

Todd Vierling said...

It's not as impressive as some pundits believe, nor is it as character-impugning as others claim.

Some 8 years ago, I was in the district of Kathy Blee Ashe, who was one of the few Republican Georgia Assembly members representing the city of Atlanta proper. She sent a letter to all her constituents to announce the party switch in 2001, with much the same message (albeit more forward-looking at the time): the Republican Party was on a resolute shift to the far-right. In this case, she had run essentially unopposed for quite some time, and ran unopposed after the switch. It was no big deal, just a reflection of shifting party attitudes... not shifting polls.

Since 1998 I've noted a very distinct and continuous change in American party politics, and posited to my friends that we're headed towards another situation much like the split of the Democratic-Republican Party of the 1800s. Attitudes and times have changed dramatically over the last half century, and with it, old policies and positions don't fit the groupings they once did. In my view, not just the Republicans have shifted rightward; so have the Democrats, leaving a power vacuum on the left side of the political spectrum.

Today, the Democratic Party is more centrist, the "big tent" if you will, but that's not likely to stick around for very long. While there are organized political parties on the liberal end of the spectrum, honestly, the general public doesn't take the Green Party and its relatives seriously. I believe we're headed instead towards a cleaved Democratic Party, with the centrists probably keeping the name, and the left-leaners forming something new.

When will that power vacuum be filled, and by whom? I've no clue. Anyone up for matching Bernie Sanders with someone else who's great with numbers and can relate the financial aspects to the general public?

(Note: I definitely don't consider myself "liberal". My views on issues have not changed in a long time, while the Democratic Party has on its own come into alignment with a lot of them. That's part of the reason I feel the shift I described is happening, and why I also feel that something really big is about to happen in American politics.)

justsomeguy said...

Specter is anything BUT a soulless, unprincipled hack.

Nazgul35 said...

Inconsistency...commonly called The Romney Effect.

Matthew H said...

I don't think it makes much difference at all for legislation. He'll vote for what he voted for all along and vote against what he voted against all along.

On the other hand, it should make a huge difference for Federal judgeships. We've got what, 400 vacancies thanks to the opposition party in the Senate slowing things up? Once Franken takes office, Obama will be able to offer a huge slate of probably 1000 potential nominees and every one of them that has no objection from any Democrat can be bundled together and fast-tracked through the process. The Republicans can't stop them.

These are LIFETIME appointments.

That's where Specter will make a difference

justsomeguy said...

Specter simply holds views that agree with both parties on different issues - and that makes him exactly like most Americans.

Tirian said...

I don't particularly mind if Specter wants to declare that, to coin a phrase, the Republican Party has left him. If he has moved to the right in recent years, I think it's fair to wonder whether this has been a personal ideological shift or if the increased stridency of the GOP caucus has demanded that he hold his nose more often. If he wishes to compete in a Democratic primary, I wish him luck and suggest that he build his left-win credentials in preparation for a lively contest.

My concern is that part of the back-room deal that resulted in Specter's switch is that he won't have to face a well-funded name-brand liberal candidate in the Democratic Primary for that lively contest because the President and the national party have decided that Arlen Specter is good enough for them. I understand that he has broad support in the state, but it probably isn't for nothing that Joe Hoeffel got 42% of the vote in 2004 and I want to be sure that that portion of the party and state electorate gets a fair opportunity to choose their representative.

mikeynaked said...

Of course, Glenn isn't a Democrat, he's more of an Accountabilicran.

He could care less if Specter's a Democrat, because he sees a great many Democrats as hypocrites and unprincipled and soul-less. Specter's just one more of that kind.

Zack said...

Anyone up for matching Bernie Sanders with someone else who's great with numbers and can relate the financial aspects to the general public?Elliot Spitzer.

Todd said...

Nate,

I don't understand this. Why does everyone think that our ELECTED representatives are supposed to vote their own personal interpretation of the issue? Why is it "self-serving" and "politically ambitious" to change your political identity and voting strategy to match that of your constituency?

Isn't the whole idea of a politician that we elect them to speak for the majority of the electorate in his given district (in this case, the state of Pennsylvania)? In other words, isn't voting the way he thinks the voters want him to vote exactly what an elected representative SHOULD be doing?

Sacto Joe said...

Pulling in Senator Specter to the Democratic Party adds to the Blue Dog contingent. But that's this year. What really important is 2010. The progressive wing of the Democratic Party needs to pick up some members, thus marginalizing the more rabid Blue Dogs. And towards that end the distillation of the Republican Party down to right wing extremists is highly favorable for an increase in the number of progressives in Congress.

Bottom line: this is good news for the Democratic Party, and for the U.S. in general.

Shaun said...

I completely agree with justsomeguy.

Specter has long been one of my favorite Republican senators and I think his willingness to vote against his party on key issues like the stimulus bill knowing that it likely hurt his chances to get reelected have shown his ethical nature.

He has been a moderate conservative far longer than the Republican party has taken such a strong turn to the right.

harold said...

A lot of progressives don't seem to get this, but the destruction of the current Republican party really is goal number one for the intermediate term.

Right now we have a hard core, right wing, dystopian, authoritarian, anti-democracy, jingoistic, war-mongering party in our midst.

This is a party which unequivocally interferes with democratic elections domestically, advocates torture, advocates state secrecy, advocates invasion of nations that did not attack us, advocates massive and useless military buildup in the most corrupt and wasteful manner, advocates discrimination against any group that it can get away with advocating discrimination against, advocates environmental destruction, and advocates authoritarian imposition of so-called "Biblical morality" with regard to the private lives of adults, while blatantly ignoring Biblical commands with regard to the poor and vulnerable, and while its own members and supporters frequently lead lives of the grossest moral decadence, by almost any standard.

The historical precedents are obvious.

This party has got to go.

The Democrats are obviously rather poor and timid when it comes to reversing prior bad policy, but they are extremely good at not initiating anything that is remotely as insane as what the Republicans would have initiated.

The Democrats make a very serviceable placeholder, and quite plausibly, might serve as an evolving center/progressive party indefinitely.

Specter isn't much of a prize, but his move serves the greater good.

dre7861 said...

I wonder how many of those votes that cast Spectre in the Republican category are really just partyline votes - the things you do because the party demands it and because you want to pick and choose your battles for the things you think are important. Now that Spectre is a Democrat a lot of those types of votes will now fall on the Democratic side because again Spectre will want to pick and choose his fights. This probably explains the .300 shift that Nate sees in his DW-NOMINATE data.

What this means for the Obama administration and for democratic and liberal causes is that it's energies wouldn't have to be extended for every single issue or nomination. Take for example the idiot Senator Burr (R-NC) who opposed Tammy Duckworth's nomination to the VA not for any stated reason but simply because he could. Senator Burr didn't chnage his mind against oppossing this double-amputee Iraqi war vet because he grew a brain or had a Paul-like revelation but rather because political pressure was put on him. That political pressure came about through the time and resources of the Obama administration, the Democratic Party and what very few media voices we have - imagine if those resources could have been freed up to lay the ground work for health care, the envirnoment or another very important issue. I'm not saying that every Obama nomination will sail through now but if Spectre coming over to the blue side frees up 1/2 to 1/3 of these kind of votes then it will be a good thing.

The Republicans saying that Spectre jumping ship seems to be a case of whistling past a graveyard. When Franken gets seated - and Franken will be seated - then they have lost the one last vestige of power they have left.

William said...

The key here is his "default" vote. No senator has the time or energy to form options and fight for every piece of legislation, there are thousands a year. He will now, likely, vote with the Dems on issues that he doesn't particularly care about, since this will win him points in the party and will collect chits for him when he is getting support for his own legislation.

It's the "default" votes that will appear to swing him left, but the core issues will change little.

shma said...

mikeynaked is right (although I would call him an Accountabilitarian.)

I can't speak for Chait, but Greenwald is not a Democrat or a partisan. He cares more about democratic principles than seeing Democrats gain more power at the expense of these principles.

Toni said...

Come on, guys. You can't complain about what Specter does as a Democrat until you actually see what Specter does as a Democrat. Even if he turns out to be a conservative Democrat, it's better than being a mainline Republican (or even a "moderate" one). Leave Specter and the Blue Dogs alone. Yes, they may vote in a way that we don't like sometimes (this is true of even "mainline" Democrats), but I prefer that they are there and that we're bringing the Arlen Specters to our party than the alternative. Really. Seriously. Do we want to repeat the mistakes of the Republican Party?

chibeardan said...

I think it would be worth looking over the data to see if others were being pulled toward their party's base before they made the switch.

Obviously Specter had political reasons for making this decision, but if he felt that the Republican party was forcing him farther to the right than he wanted, couldn't that be a viable reason for leaving the party.

This may also account for why there is quite a significant shift in voting patterns for those who have made the switch. Making a switch may be done so that the person doesn't want to feel the kind of pressure to go along with the party base.

It seems to me the Republicans have been exerting a lot of pressure to move even further to the right. Remaining in the party required moving to the right, and it could be that Specter just got fed up with it, and felt he could vote his conscious more if he moved to the other side.

I think his voting record will become more liberal, but I doubt we will see that much of a significant shift as we had with the others who made the switch, unless he is only doing this for preservation. If that is the case, though, why not toe the party line and vote on cloture even if he votes against EFCA?

nkpolitics1279 said...

Remember Michael Forbes of NY.
The former Republican Congressman from Eastern LI NY. He was elected in 1994 as a Conservative Republican. In 1999. Forbes switched to the Democratic Party. Forbes narrowly lost in the Democratic primary in 2000 to a 70 year old retired Librian- who lost in the General Election to Felix Grucci who later lost re-election in 2002.

Juris said...

@William: Actually, I think the key here isn't so much as the "default" vote as it is the "procedural" vs the "substantive" vote.

Being a member of a given party's caucus means that you are almost invariable going to vote with the party's leadership (in the given house) on procedural issues -- including cloture votes. But on substantive issues, you are generally given far more leeway by your own party's leadership to vote your conscience or your constituency.

So Specter's lining up with the Dems is especially important because it will make it far easier for the Senate Democratic majority leadership to control the agenda.

On substance, you should keep in mind that not every bill that comes through will either be stronly whipped by the party leaders or part of the President's agenda. And Specter and others will be free to show their independence on those. And in any case individual Senators, especially if they control important committees, will have a lot to say about formulating bills in their bailiwicks in particular.

In the case of Specter, I expect him to do his best -- in conformity with the Dem Senate leadership and the President -- to expedite bringing through committees and floor vote every one of Obama's judicial nominees. But on some of the actual votes ("the substance") Specter may vote against Obama's nominee -- even though the majority will vote in favor.

I even think that main reason conservatives are likely to be truly hurt and upset by Specter's defection is what it will do for judicial nominations -- not because of Specter's support for other legislative initiatives.

Jeff said...

The big picture is being missed here. There is a considerable risk to the Dems in their current unchecked hegemony. They will have no excuses whatsover with the left for not passing all the promised goodies. They will have no excuses with the broader electorate if and when the policies they do pass prove unpopular or don't work. Obama was desperate for bipartisan support on the stimulus because he wanted insurance in case it doesn't work to produce 3 million jobs. He didn't get it, and now he gets the blame when 3 million jobs don't turn up. He is now in that exposed position permanently. The moderate Dems control the show, but since that is the case, there is no one to blame (except fellow Dems) when things go wrong or don't get done.

On national scale - I think the pluses of the Specter defection outweigh the minuses for the GOP (politically). Good policy usually results from bipartisan compromise. Unpopular, bad policy usually results from single party rule. We now have the latter. The GOP will benefit politically. Unless, somehow, Obama can make energy taxes, tax increases (bye bye "tax cuts for 95% of all Americans"), huge deficits, and - eventually - inflation, popular. The entire Democratic party is overreading the "left" drift of the US. Now they have the power to fish or cut bait. If the platform is so popular, and you have the power, then execute. The problem is the huge policy chasms that divide the Democratic party.

Ann said...

This may be too simplistic, but if the voters of Pennsylvania are moving toward a Democratic Party view, shouldn't their representative (i.e. Senator) be listening and willing to change, too?

Jeff said...

I think this PA is now pure blue territory is misleading. How can this be said when the GOP controls the state Senate by a huge margin, and is within a few votes in the lower chamber as well? Bush barely lost in 04, when he was not a popular GOP incumbent. Granted, state wide candidates for the Democrats benefit from rampant vote fraud churned out by the Philly machine (and please don't bore me by denying this).

Also, isn't it possible that the registration numbers in PA - the shift to the Dems - was encouraged by the fact that the state played the key role in the greatest barn burner of a primary in recent memory (the Democratic fight between Clinton and Obama?)That could be a very temporary effect.

I think Toomy might do better in a general election than people think. He's smart and well-spoken, and not a firebreather. His issues will resonate if Obama's spending spree doesn't turn the economy around dramatically.

Colby said...

"bye bye "tax cuts for 95% of all Americans""

That was already passed, dude.

And I reject your "good policy/bad policy" premise. The 1860s were marked by Republican hegemony and an expansion of civil rights and public education. In the 1930s, Washington Republicans were hunted for sport, and we had the New Deal. In the 90s, though, we had divided government and a President who wanted to compromise, and we ended up allowing credit-default swaps.

Certainly, if Dems don't deliver, they'll be in trouble. But that was true before Specter jumped. It's true when ANY party comes to power. That doesn't make it "good" for the opposition, though; in fact, it rather underlines that the opposition's fortunes are out of its hands, which is not at all a good situation. To say otherwise smacks of whistling past the graveyard, rather than making a rational argument.

markymark said...

Any chance Spector doesn't run for re-election?

Statler N Waldorf said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Jeff said...

Colby,
You must have missed the decision to pull back the tax cuts in 2010. In other words, Obama's tax cuts for 95% of all Americans amounts to 400$ checks (for most of us) exactly twice. Bush was rightly derided for this sort of thing. The President is not substantially reducing taxes for anyone for any length or time. That will be an effective attack in 2010.
My point on policy was spoken as a moderate, and one who thinks that the Clinton-Gingrich moment was a high point in the recent (very short) annals of responsible government. I don't think the 1930s or the 1860s (somewhat oddly recalled by you for its education policy) are particulaly relevant to modern political patterns. Name a period of one party dominance since that has been successfully.

Of course the GOP shrinking (though it is being overstated here) is not good. But Specter was headed for a defeat anyway. I think his nomination as a Dem might give the GOP a better chance in PA, actually. And the overall point was about what conditions might allow for an overall party recovery. I expect Obama to fail in many respects. Now those failures will be blamed on him, as they should be. Exile can be purifying for a party.

PeteKent said...

It seems that the Dems are clearly going to get a chance to govern from a fairly left wing position and that the checks and balances on majority rule have all but evaporated.

Two things are the great imponderables: (1) how the public takes to that agenda and (2) whether the Dems will get punished for the state of the economy in 2010 or be hailed as geniuses.

Today's dire and unexpectedly bad 1Q GDP report shows an economy that will continue to limp along for the foreseeable future. At best only the moneyed crowd will do well (what a surprise!), while the working folk struggle. Do not be mislead by Obama's stim-u-less bill: it delivers very little in the way of productive stimulus and nothing to repair tattered individual and company balance sheets.

As far as the policy prescriptions go, Obama will be aided by unfettered power in the House and Senate to achieve in the short run whatever he wants. His agenda is so misguided and little understood that it is likely to cause confusion and alarm as the details become manifest and people feel the impact on their lives of Obama's experiment in Euro style socialism. It is conceit to think that the victory in November was anything other than a personal victory for Obama. With the great mass of people, he took pains to conceal his true self. Witness all the gnashing of teeth on the right as what we feared comes to pass.

Much the same point was made by Dick Morris in his latest column which you can link to on DRUDGE.

Pedulums swing in politics. This one is swinging faster than most.

Remember: this recession is Obama's Iraq War and as it lingers its pain will be felt deeply and personally.

Keep watching the economic reports of you want to know the fate of Obama and his agenda.

petekent01 (follow me on twitter)

Zack said...

Jeff:

Exile can be purifying for a party.

In general, I agree that exile can be the first step for resurgence. But I doubt that crossing your fingers and hoping for the Democrats to crash and burn will be enough. Even if relief doesn't come as fast as we all hope, I think Obama's personal popularity will go a long way towards ensuring that the public continues to blame Bush for the crisis (along with, of course, the fact that Bush was responsible).

Instead, the way back is for the Republican party to evaluate what it's been doing wrong and rebuild itself as a more competitive party. That's what the democrats did after their period in the wilderness after Reagan-Bush I with Clinton and his New Democratic policies. In the current Republican party, the only person I see who's really addressing that need to reevaluate now is David Frum (and maybe Meagan McCain), but it's still early yet. I think I'm in the minority on this site, in that I would like to see a thriving Republican party, just not one that looks like what we've seen lately.

Oh, and other than your convictions and boredom, I'd love to see some evidence of voter fraud in Philly. GWB looked pretty hard for that kind of thing while he was in office, with not much result.

Eric said...

I think some people are under the misunderstanding that the Democrats have agreed not to allow a primary challenger against Specter. To my knowledge, the Democratic party cannot stop any registered Democrat who follows all of the applicable election laws from running in the primary. The agreement was that the Democratic party wouldn't FUND a challenger, but that doesn't mean a challenger couldn't receive funding from other sources. Keep in mind that labor carries a lot of weight in Pennsylvania, and they could likely put up a well funded candidate against Specter if they feel that he is acting against their interests.
I suspect that Specter is looking for political coverage from the Democrats by insisting they change some of the language in the EFCA bill so that he doesn't appear to be TOO inconsistent. Afterall, he did come out very publicly against the bill recently after having supported it in the past. I imagine he feels that he can't switch positions on the issue so soon without some kind of political cover.

zosima said...

I guess electing someone is a sort of contract. You promise to give them your vote and they promise to enact the policies you want, but because you pay first, you don't have a guarantee that they will keep their end of the bargain.

So I don't think it is an innate revulsion to consistency, merely the fact that we can use consistency as proxy for the likelihood that an elected official will keep their promises.

zosima said...

Whoops! Revulsion to inconsistency

loner said...

Jeff—

Toomey, should he be the Republican nominee, will have to be lucky to lose as badly as Santorum did in 2006. Very lucky.

matador said...

Obama's backstage seen from Italy:

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/esteri/centogiorni-obama/1.html

next week I'll be in US up north,in Boston,Massachusetts.
what about the swine flu ?
should I be worried ?
please don't say"stay home" I can't.
Bye
:)

wv:Barelli
wow! an italian surname!

harold said...

Jeff -

Of course the GOP shrinking (though it is being overstated here) is not good.I disagree. Of course one party domination is not great, but a system that includes a toxic, entirely harmful party is even worse.

Furthermore, we have more parties than just the Democrats and Republicans already.

PeteKent -

You overlook two things -

1) "First one hundred days" actually means, specifically, first 100 days. In fact, if the recession had ended already, that would have been better news for the Republicans.

2) You keep cheerleading for a severe recession and extensive suffering, assuming that this will lead the public to reject the Democrats, and that rejection of the Democrats by default means acceptance of the Republicans.

But that's not necessarily the case. The public could reject current Democrats - by selecting different Democrats in primaries, or voting for third parties.

You blew it in a big way, and the fantasy that you will be called in to blow it again if Obama can't fix your mess is not logical.

nkpolitics1279 said...

We need Charlie Crist to get elected to the US Senate from Florida. Vote with the Democrats with more than 50% of the time. Endorse Obama's 2012 Presidential Re-election campaign. Challenge Sean Hannity to a duel. Write a book called National Party No More.

Cugel said...

Statler N Waldorf said...

Having Obama agree to campaign for you is a pretty important thing for a Senator who's re-election chances are dicey.

Don't think that comes for free. The Democrats are going to want him to vote with the party on some issues he wouldn't normally do so in exchange for their support.

You buy the blue plate special, you gotta eat all of it-the good and the bad.
Would this were true. If the reports are true Obama & the Democrats got NOTHING out of the negotiations. Specter gets the following:

1. The DSCC promises to neither support nor fund a primary challenger.

2. Obama promises to campaign for Specter and AGAINST any primary challenger -- thus almost certainly dooming any challenge effort.

3. Specter gets to remain a complete ass-hat. He can vote against Employee Free choice, against Obama's court nominees, against cram-down in the bankruptcy reform bill, etc.

In short he gets to swap parties without actually changing any of his rotten views!

Well what exactly is gained then? An extra vote for Harry Reid as majority leader? Who needs that?

I don't see that Democrats have really gained anything at all unless Specter now changes his voting pattern and will support healthy care and another stimulus bill and environmental legislation, etc.

The only thing then is to HOPE that he's unprincipled enough that he'll change all his views! Well, there's some support for that, but I'm not buying it!

The Media Villagers would have a fainting fit if he actually abandoned conservatism. That would be un-"bi-partisan."

"Bi-partisanship" means Republicans getting what they want whether they compromise or not.

Frankly, we'd be much better with Specter out of the Senate entirely.

The only encouraging note is that with Specter now more dependent on Democratic votes he'd have to curry favor with Liberals. But, we know that he's a Lieberdem! He'll try and prove how "moderate" he is by REJECTING everything liberals want! Then he'll hope the (D) next to his name will pull in conservative Dems and those MORON "Independents" who love "bi-partisanship." It's likely to work too.

This is a serious set-back.

markymark said...

Two things, firstly how likely is Specter to get through a Democratic Primary? Any Pennsylvanians with a hope of taking the nomination away from him?

Second thing, I think people like PeteKent who expect a far left agenda from the Democrats don't understand the nature of the Democratic Congressional Caucus. They are a fairly moderate bunch really. (As indeed is the President actually.) This isn't going to be a 'govern our supporters and to hell with the rest of you' congress.

Jeff said...

Loner,
I don't overrate Toomey's chances. I only suggest that he would be competitive specifically against Specter. Particularly if the economy is bad and Specter doesn't roll on card check. Ridge, on the other hand, could well knock him off. This is the point: the Dems are apparently stuck with Specter, who is hardly going to have Obama like drawing power with the liberal base. I think of all possible outcomes, this one is the best for the GOP's chances to win the seat. I wouldn't be surprised if Nate turns PA blue on his Senate rankings and yet keeps it somewhere on the likely turnover list. The Dems would have been better served by a bloody GOP primary fight followed by a Toomey candidacy (with half of the GOP mad). The GOP is now unified, and the Dems are perhaps a bit underenthused by their new, cynical, carpetbagging, Bush loving friend.

Zach,
The idea that in the face of a recession Obama can keep on blaming Bush well into 2010 is dubious at best. A one trillion dollar stimulus followed by a 3.5 trillion dollar budget BUYS you the economy. It's Obama's now. Whether or not he "created" the mess, Bush would have used very different strategies to resolve it. Obama has made his choices, and the electorate will judge him for their success.

I do find it interesting how often people on this site take refuge in this idea that Bush-blaming will save Obama and the Dems, no matter how badly they govern. Not exactly a marker of great confidence.

Cugel said...

"harold said...

A lot of progressives don't seem to get this, but the destruction of the current Republican party really is goal number one for the intermediate term.

Right now we have a hard core, right wing, dystopian, authoritarian, anti-democracy, jingoistic, war-mongering party in our midst.

This is a party which unequivocally interferes with democratic elections domestically, advocates torture, advocates state secrecy, advocates invasion of nations that did not attack us, advocates massive and useless military buildup in the most corrupt and wasteful manner, advocates discrimination against any group that it can get away with advocating discrimination against, advocates environmental destruction, and advocates authoritarian imposition of so-called "Biblical morality" with regard to the private lives of adults, while blatantly ignoring Biblical commands with regard to the poor and vulnerable, and while its own members and supporters frequently lead lives of the grossest moral decadence, by almost any standard.

The historical precedents are obvious.

This party has got to go.

The Democrats are obviously rather poor and timid when it comes to reversing prior bad policy, but they are extremely good at not initiating anything that is remotely as insane as what the Republicans would have initiated.

The Democrats make a very serviceable placeholder, and quite plausibly, might serve as an evolving center/progressive party indefinitely.

Specter isn't much of a prize, but his move serves the greater good."
Well said! But, the Republican party isn't going anywhere. They are just becoming more and more the party of White racism and resentment.

The places where Republicans flourish are those White bastions like Tennessee, Appalachia in general, the Great Plains states (TX, OK, KA, SD, etc.) and Mormon-land (UT, WY, ID).

In short, rural White America. Everywhere minorities are growing in power, or where Evangelicals are an insignificant problem, Republicans are tanking and will continue to tank.

People like Pete Kent living in fantasy land are like Democrats in 1984 or 2004 fondly believing that the rest of America shares their hatred and disdain for Reagan or Bush when that hadn't happened yet.

Cugel said...

"I do find it interesting how often people on this site take refuge in this idea that Bush-blaming will save Obama and the Dems, no matter how badly they govern. Not exactly a marker of great confidence."What kind of fool would be wildly optimistic that ANYTHING can turn this economy around in a hurry!

Expecting anything different is like expecting that a few taps with a hammer is going to fix the family car after Jr.'s drunk driving ran it off the road into a phone pole.

Jr. goes smirking off into the sun-set and "now it's your problem Dad! If you can't fix it, you now 'own' the problem! That means pretty soon the family will be lobbying to let ME get back behind the wheel again!"

Not so fast there Republican! America's NOT going to give the party of failure another chance anytime soon.

You want to DENY that it's all Bush & the Republicans' fault simply because you supported them and now their utter failure at absolutely EVERYTHING and the horrible consequences of that failure are a standing indictment of your intelligence for ever supporting them in the first place!

ERGO, Bush & the Republicans CANNOT be a fault because THAT would mean as a supporter that YOU bear some measure of blame and we can't have that!

loner said...

Jeff—

Specter, assuming his name is on the ballot in November 2010, will be re-elected. It won't be close.

Republican unity? What country are you living in?

bottlcaps said...

we do not need Mr. Specter to vote FOR the EFCA, or for that matter, any other legislation. What the democrats need Specter (and Franken, et.al ) is to ALLOW the vote by voting for cloture. Voting FOR cloture is not voting for the legislation, it allows the debating to end and ALLOW a vote of the legislation by the Senate. Specter can stick by his guns and vote AGAINST any legislation he might not agree with, but being part of the Democratic Party, he must allow the vote to occur. The Democrats will usually have 51 votes to pass any legislation, which in most cases is all that is needed.

It amazes me that many pundits on T.V., blogs and newspapers think 60 votes are needed to pass legislation! High school civics anyone?

Dwight said...

Sometimes there is a fine line between craven and listening to the people who compose the constituency that elected you.

Sometimes craven is knuckling under to the party that you ran under instead sucking it up, flipping the party the bird, and walking out the door.

It has been clear for some time that Specter has been under a lot of GOP to move with the party. I think he's finally decided enough is enough and took the risk in walking.

Jeff said...

Loner,
Since you are gifted with clairvoyance, perhaps you can predict the rest of the Senate races. You really think Specter would crush, for instance, Ridge? Please.

Cugel: the "fools" who will expect a turn around are the voters. Obama has raised this expectation at every turn. We are getting 3 million new jobs out of the stimulus bill, remember? The mortgage plan will help the housing market, etc. Obama has budgeted for GROWTH next year. He tells us its time to get into the Stock Market. These talking points have consequences: they are called expectations. Obama just bought this economy, at the cost of 4 plus trillion tax payer dollars.

As for this economic crisis discrediting conservative ideas - funny how the exact opposite has happened in Britain. Tax and spend labor is about to get slammed by the resurgent Tories. Bush's policies - many of which I, as a conservative did NOT support, and many of which were classic big government bloat of the kind that Obama dearly loves - may be discredited. Conservative policies are not, and all of the polling shows this. The country is already worried about deficits, taxes, government growth etc. Just wait until they get a taste of Obama's little gift: inflation.

There are no permanent victories in politics, your rantings about conservatives failing at "everything" aside. The more you rant about Bush and the "party of failure", the more you prove my point.

Zack said...

Jeff:

It's not Bush blaming for lack of confidence in the Democratic party. Rather, its an acknowledgment that we face a very big problem, and I believe that the people will give Obama a bit more leeway than you seem to think. As many others have pointed out, it seems strange to put these absurdly short timetables on Democrats fixing a problem largely created over the last 8 years. Now, if the Democrats are successful in 2010 and the economy does not show significant signs of recovery (or at least stabilization) by 2012, the Democrats could be in trouble.

That said, I actually think Obama has been very successful in turning things around so far. In 100 days, the market has bounced back from rock bottom and is more stable than it has been since the crisis began. Consumer confidence and consumer spending have increased, and people who say the economy is on the right track has increased from 12% (just before Obama was inaugurated) to 48% today.

There's still problems on the production side (as evidenced by the 1st quarter economic reports), but in a lot of production lags consumption. So far, businesses have made significant cuts to stay afloat and are poised to rebound leaner and more profitable. Inventories are being depleted, so as people continue to buy, more production will be needed.

There are still big problems with Citgroup, AIG, and GM, but things are looking less bleak for the banking and auto industries as a whole. Many banks are on track to pay bank the TARP money by the end of the year so that they can ditch the extra government scrutiny.

I'm confident that by 2010 elections, the economy will have at least ceased to shrink. By the time 2012 roles around, I expect the crisis, for the most part, will be in the rear view window. Ultimately, I guess that means we'll have mooted the whole "who's to blame" issue.

Justin said...

As somebody who actually lives in Philly, the only instances of "voter fraud" I came across were perpetrated by Republicans. All the cars in my neighborhood were flyered with notices saying that if you have any outstanding warrants or unpaid parking tickets, the cops will be waiting at the polls to arrest you. I live in a primarily African-American (i.e. Democratic voting) neighborhood. This isn't really relevant to the overall topic but I just thought I'd put my 2 cents in.

Alex S. said...

I try to look at the big picture. Yes, it's true that the Dems might field a more liberal Dem in 2010, but Specter is a Dem right now. Obama's first 2 years are going to be much more successful and progressive than they would have been without Specter's switch. After 2010, the Democratic caucus would be less liberal with Specter than with, say, Allyson Schwartz, but now that Republicans can't filibuster every second appointment confirmation Obama's agenda can be pursued at a much higher speed. And if this agenda is successful (A Democrat probably thinks it will) the national climate will be much more favorable to Democrats by 2010, essentially acting against Specter's moderate tendencies.

I also wonder how Specter's switch affects the midterm elections. The Republican argument, all men on board/into the Senate to prevent the 60th seat, is void now. Would Charlie Crist still give up his governorship to serve his party? What about Mike Castle? Or Chuck Grassley? And I'd like to hear what Sen. Bunning has to say about this.

Stephen said...

Specter has done considerable harm, including shepherding W's two Supreme Court nominees through confirmation. His switch does not ensure that he will not face a serious primary opponent, albeit now from the left rather than the right.

harold said...

Cugel -

I think you are exactly right about the fate of the current Republican party, with the caveat that I would say the party of "geographically limited" white racism and "misdirected" resentment.

Whether that entity will retain the name "Republican", or whether the name "Republican" will become associated with some less insane party (that became less likely when Specter quit), I can't say.

What is important is that the toxic insanity I described is eliminated, by the democratic process of course, as a significant force in national politics. As we both agree.

Zack said...

Jeff (and others convinced that Obama's stimulus plan will result in inflation):

I've seen this coming up again and again, and I think it's important to address. I argued about this before with GROG, but my focus there was more on the hyperbolic (and redundant) language that he was using (i.e. runaway hyperinflation). The fact is that the inflationary risk of Obama's bailout is overstated for a number of reasons:

1) Deflation is currently a bigger risk than inflation. After averaging 2-5% inflation for the last 8 years, in 2009, the US has not experienced inflation higher than 0.25% and actually experienced slight deflation in March. Under these circumstances, an argument could be made for loosening monetary policy. The Fed's rate is already near zero, reflecting this reality. It's possible that even if Obama's plan causes inflation, that might actually be a good thing in a deflationary environment.

2) However, history doesn't show that stimulus programs actually cause inflation. The inflation-mongers seem to forget that Obama's stimulus plan included $288 billion in individual and corporate tax cuts. Deficit increasing tax cuts is actually the exact policy Reagan used to fight inflation in the 80s. Moreover, while FDR's "stimulus package," (which dwarfs Obama's) did lead to some inflation, it's important to remember that this inflation came after many years of deflation in the 1930s. From 1931-1933 deflation rates stayed in the double digit ranges, and the dollar was deflating as late as 1940. In that light, at least part of the inflation in the 40s can be seen as a corrective to the earlier deflation. (And that's not even mentioning how WWII muddies these numbers).

3) $1 trillion (or more accurately, $788 billion) isn't enough to make much of an impact on the dollar. The US GDP is about $14.5 billion. Even if Obama's stimulus plan had simply been to print up $788 billion in extra cash and give it out, that would have only accounted for a 5% growth in the amount of money available. Starting from zero, that would put us at roughly 5% inflation. That's slightly higher than it's been over the last decade, but hardly the end of the world.

4) In fact, though, Obama did not just print up new money. Instead, he invested in government spending and tax cuts. Inflation is the result of the money supply growing faster than the growth in goods and services. True, the impact of government spending and tax cuts on creating growth in goods and services has been debated (see, e.g., http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2009/01/14/the-evidence-on-tax-cuts-vs-spending-is-confusing/). However, it's clear that the impact is not zero. At least some of that money that Obama gave out in stimulus is going out to create more goods and services for people to buy (through, e.g., research or entrepreneurialism inspired by tax cuts). As long as that growth stays ahead of (or close to) the growth in money supply, inflation isn't affected.

markymark said...

If anyone hasn't read this

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/opinion/29snowe.html?_r=2&ref=opinion

yet, do so. Especially if you are a Republican.

It points to the problem in the GOP at the moment. A party that has a very fixed idea of what it should think, without really allowing for any kind of disagreement within the party. Now more than ever for the GOP disagreement is vital. Without a level of disagreement the party won't be able to sort itself out.

One thing that the Democratic Party has worked out is that the USA is a huge country and that policies for Colorado shouldn't be the same as policies for New York for instance.

Lucas said...

Joe Lieberman IS a legitimate democrat with generally liberal views. All of this obsessive compulsive focus on party discipline is bad for the country, and is what eventually turned the republicans into a fringe party ... dont follow that model! sometimes it's good to have moderates that can say no if the dems overstep.

I find it actually refreshing that Specter cited political reasons, rather than try to BS his way out of the situation (aka. Romney style) ... thats worlds away from being "soul-less".

Lucas said...

i second the motion that deflation is currently a much bigger risk then inflation.

loner said...

Jeff—

I don't know enough yet, and in some cases I never will, to predict the outcome of a number of 2010 Senate races. With regard to Pennsylvania, I know enough to tell you that if Specter's name is on the ballot in November in 2010 he will be re-elected and that it won't be close. He'll win by more than 5% of the vote against the most competitive Republican.

Zack said...

Joe Lieberman IS a legitimate democrat with generally liberal views. All of this obsessive compulsive focus on party discipline is bad for the country.

You said it, Lucas.

loomisnews said...

Eightythird!!!! in italics!!!
Specter switching hurts the Republicans (as if they need it) far more than it helps the Democrats.
We can only hope that Specter’s obvious lack of principles translates into a massive shift in his voting habits, but I ain’t holding my breath.

And it puts Pennsylvania in play, IMHO.

Specter switching parties is Toomey’s best chance to get elected in the general election. By all indications, wingnut Toomey woulda beat Specter for the GOP nomination, but would surely have gone down to defeat to a real Democrat.

Instead, at best, the Dems are saddled with this mook for 6 years, & that’s only IF Pennsylvania bucks the usual trend about 5 term incumbents — they usually lose.It also could cause the Democrats to lose a seat elsewhere, because now the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee has to max out its donations for the Pennsylvania race. It might have to pull money away from other places it’ll be needed, to protect Specter.

MARCUS said...

UGH! Glen Greenwald is such an ideological windbag. The man is incredibly intelligent, but sees everything in black and white, perched atop his ivory tower. He has absolutely no good ideas, just criticisms of bad ones.

Robert said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Robert said...

Nate you got to update Specter's color to blue!

polls_apart said...

@Jeff:

I agree that Ridge would provide stiffer competition to Specter in 2012. There's just one problem: what makes you think that the moderate Ridge would have a better chance in the Republican primary against Toomey than the moderate Specter?

Nickname unavailable said...

Huh? Wasn't Spector just convicted of 2nd degree murder in California?

Davy said...

I kind of liken this spectre (pun intended) to Russia and America back in the good old cold war days. Think of Russia as the republicans; coincidentally red, and America as Democrats. Nobody defects TO Russia.

Statler N Waldorf said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Colby said...

"You must have missed the decision to pull back the tax cuts in 2010."

As a matter of fact, I did miss that. Could you link to it, please?

"My point on policy was spoken as a moderate, and one who thinks that the Clinton-Gingrich moment was a high point in the recent (very short) annals of responsible government."

Again, credit-default-swaps. There was nothing responsible about that era, it was just cheap enough to balance the budget.

"(somewhat oddly recalled by you for its education policy)"

Admittedly, that was an awkward phrase, but it was referring to programs like land-grant universities, a major positive change for the country that I (As an alum of one) have quite a bit of affection for.

"Name a period of one party dominance since that has been successfully."

Well, that's of course tricky because we haven't SEEN a period of one party "dominance" since then. In the Kennedy/Johnson, Carter, and Clinton Administrations, the Dixiecrats prevented either side from having "dominance" (just as the Blue Dogs may in this case). All of the Republicans (Save Bush) had some modicum of Dem control to deal with, and one example is lousy statistics. But in terms of "effective control", I'd have to cite Reagan's first six years. Between the Senate and the Blue Dogs in the House, he got most of his agenda passed, and it worked out alright for him (even if I quibble with the results from the comfort of 20 years of hindsight).

"I expect Obama to fail in many respects. Now those failures will be blamed on him, as they should be. Exile can be purifying for a party."

And see, if your idea that this is "good" for the Republicans is based on what you "expect" to happen, it's just blatantly illogical. 'Cause you're just a yapper on the internet, you have no idea what Obama's gonna do. But if the Republicans' fate is that far out of their hands, then no, this isn't good for them at all.

Statler N Waldorf said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Colby said...

"By all indications, wingnut Toomey woulda beat Specter for the GOP nomination, but would surely have gone down to defeat to a real Democrat."

That's not because of anything special Toomey can do to Specter, though, it's because the moderate voters in the PA Republican party changed registration and wouldn't have been able to vote in the primary. Not a problem in the general- moderates, independents, liberals, and the Rendell machine will be free to vote in the general.

(I understand there might be some concerns about liberals voting for Specter, but they'll probably be sufficiently spooked by Toomey to vote for a less-than-inspiring Dem. See the 2006 Senate race, really).

"It also could cause the Democrats to lose a seat elsewhere, because now the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee has to max out its donations for the Pennsylvania race."

Er, probably not. Specter's always had an easy time raising his own cash, what with the Philly money machine. Again, the Rendell Machine's gonna be a big help. You could make the argument that this is an opportunity cost, and the Rendell Machine can't focus on other Senate races, but how much would it really do in KY, MO, or NH anyway?

marc miwerdz said...

As the Republican party self destructs, I foresee a new party emerging. It will emerge from the Democratic party and combine "Blue dog" democrats and the old "Rockefeller" republicans. It will be socially moderate and fiscally conservative. They may call it the Federalist party. It will compete with the Democratic party and these 2 parties will woo the marginalized Republican party to support their initiatives.

Richard said...

I third the belief that deflation is currently a bigger concern than inflation. Those of us with mortgages, especially, rely on a certain amount of positive inflation over time.

Statler N Waldorf said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Davy said...

@S n W

I know. I was being facetious.

Jeff said...

Colby,
Brush up on the facts. Obama's only tax cut is this "making work pay" thing. Pelosi is allowing it to "expire" after 2010. It will be in place for 2 years. This is in the budget blueprint that just passed. That you are unaware of this, and still feel that you can vigorously promote Obama's economic plans, is typical of his supporters.

Zach,
your entire argument on inflation is a red herring. No one is saying that the stimulus, in a vacuum, would cause inflation. You need to look at the overall spending plans of the President. He's PLANNING (optimistically) for a deficit of nearly 15 trillion by 2014. That doesn't really account for entitlement liabilities. By the way, the idea that Obama's admin isn't "printing up money" is wrong. It's called quantitative easing and that is exactly what the US (with Obama's approval) is doing. Here is an important graph on the size of the money supply:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/AMBNS?cid=124

Right now, the velocity of circulation is low. When it picks up, the Fed will find it difficult to contract this money supply, and inflation will result.

Jeff said...

One more point for all of you gleeful liberals who think the GOP is going the way of the libs. In 1977, according to Gallup, party ID stood at an astounding 47 Dem to 22 GOP. Reagan and his friends won big three years later.

Zack said...

Jeff:

A couple things:

1) That $15 trillion number you're talking about is the debt, not the deficit. Although he approved a one time stimulus program, Obama's plan calls for shrinking the annual budget deficit.

2) I don't think you can really say that Obama is responsible for quantitative easing (and its certainly a different animal than government spending, which is what your posts have been about until now). Quantitative easing the Fed's response to cutting interest rates to zero and still needing stimulus. I agree it's inherently more risky than interest rate adjustments, but what other options are there? Also, Japan has been using quantitative easing for nearly a decade and still is more worried about deflation than inflation.

So you still haven't shown that (a) Obama's plans will cause inflation; or (b) that inflation is a bigger risk than deflation. As someone with a 6 figure student loan and a mortgage, I know that deflation scares me a whole lot more.

Jeff said...

Zach
Debt, of course. Slip of the tongue. Still, its huge. And the idea that Obama calls for "shrinking the annual budget deficit" is very, very wrong. He cuts it, in theory, relative to its staggering levels today (nearly 2 trillion!). But he never projects to get it below half a trillion, and then its starts to grow again. His projected, systemic deficits are staggering.

Mike in Maryland said...

namentstone said...
Do we know *when* Specter is becoming a Democrat?

Reading between the lines of an early MSNBC report from April 28, Specter already had switched parties PRIOR to his announcement of switching parties:

"But even before Specter announced he was switching parties, he attended a Senate subcommittee hearing on the swine flu outbreak and took a seat on the Democratic side of the dais."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30456741

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

LFC said...

Nate said... If Specter were more concerned about self-consistency -- and less about self-preservation -- he'd probably still be a Republican right now.If that were true, Specter wouldn't have tacked right so hard and he would have lost to Toomey in the last primary. He almost did as it is.

Jeff said...

Yes, sure, all the vote fraud in Philly is by Republicans. Just like the vote fraud in Ohio:

http://www.thenextright.com/mikeroman/guilty-pleas-in-ohio-voter-fraud-a-warning-to-states-parties-and-candidates

nikip5555 said...

What if Specter is being more-or-less consistent (as much as any politician ever is) and it's the Republican Party that's moved? This view makes much more sense to me. It's also consistent with Olympia Snowe's remarks about how unfriendly the party has become towards moderates.

John said...

As a PA native, I think Specter should be careful what he wishes for. Now I, personally, was ready to vote for Specter during the primary. But of course that is moot now. This liberates Reps to find a more electable opponent than Toomey. It also may look like a cheap stunt to voters in PA, who, as Chris Matthews said, tend to prize loyalty. I'd like to see Ridge or Gerlach run in the primary, though they might have to move right a bit. If Toomey is the opponent, he can hit Specter over and over for being, for what it's worth, AFRAID of competing with him.

On the Dem side, these young Congressmen like Murphy and Sestak are waiting for their chance and just had it snatched from them. Sestak for one is not ready to cede this thing to Specter. PA is not Mass or Cali and will support Republicans at times. We'll see what happens.

Another thing, no more using the term "socially moderate". Leftists use the term to descrice "social liberals". The vast majority of Americans oppose unrestricted abortion, and also oppose gay marriage. Only a politician who agrees (which I think Specter actually does) can be considered a social moderate.

polls_apart said...

@John:
If Specter faces Toomey in the general election, how is that charge of Specter being "AFRAID of competing with" Toomey going to look? Specter already frankly admitted he didn't want to face Toomey when the universe of voters was limited to Republicans. He will say that he had no fear of dong so in the context of a general election. Sorry, John, that dog won't hunt.

loner said...

Toomey can do whatever he likes. He still loses big.

What part of PA, John?

coolstar said...

Wow, this is inane a post as I've seen here for quite a while: "souless", "unprincipled hack","Of course this is true, in so far as it goes"....
I assume the hilarity here is unintentional. What's so hard about this: anyone who's followed Spector's career KNOWS he won't change his stand on issues ONE IOTA because he's switched parties. He now figures he has a get-out-of-jail-for-free card! What are democrats gonna do? Slap him on the wrist when he bites them in the ass, as of course he will? We'd be a LOT better off if he hadn't switched, as then Rendell (uh, a REAL democrat) could have become Senator after kicking Toomey to the curb.

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