3.18.2009

AIG: How a Meme Spreads

One of the cool features at Memeorandum, my favorite aggregator of political content, is that you can warp back to any previous point in time to see which stories were dominating bandwidth on the World Wide Web. Here, for example, is what the world looked like on Election Night, or on the morning that Sarah Palin was selected to be John McCain's running mate.

I thought it would be useful to examine how the current controversy surrounding AIG has spread throughout the Internet over the past several days. This story has been a little bit unusual in that it's not all that newsworthy: AIG's intention to pay its so-called retention bonuses has been public knowledge for some time. But the story has absolutely blown up within the past 72 hours.

The immediate trigger for the controversy appears to have come late Saturday evening, when the Washington Post posted the web version of a page A01 story from its Sunday edition: "AIG Paying Millions in Bonuses Despite Receiving Federal Bailout". The Washington Post story contained two real pieces of reporting: firstly, that Tim Geithner had been talking to AIG CEO Edward Liddy about the retention bonuses and was extremely unhappy about them, and secondly, that Geithner had prevailed upon Liddy to make some revisions to other types of bonus provisions. The first blogger to pick up the story and show up on Memorandum's radar screen was David Waldman at Congress Matters. By midnight, he'd been joined by only a couple others, although meanwhile, the New York Times published a story that largely replicated the Washington Post's reporting.

On Sunday, the story gained significant steam throughout the liberal blogosphere. By 3 PM, according to Memeorandum, 20 independent (e.g. not related to a major media outlet) blogs had picked up some variant of the AIG story, of which 16 (by my count) have a definitive liberal orientation. There was then an additional round of attention later in the day, this time mostly coming from the mainstream media, after AIG's counterparty list was released, and as the papers began to release content online from their Monday editions.

AIG-related affairs continued to dominate the discussion on Monday after Barack Obama said he wanted to block the bonuses and amidst speculation about the political fallout. Over the course of the day, the discussion tended to shift from liberal blogs to mainstream media channels.

Then yesterday (Tuesday), the story got bigger rather than smaller, becoming the subject of about twice as much discussion as it had been 24 hours earlier. Noteworthy about yesterday is that conservative blogs, which had been slow on the trigger initially, finally started to cover the story en masse, perhaps sensing the potential for embarrassment to the Administration.

Here is a graph of how this all looks at 3-hour intervals (skipping overnight periods):



Here's the unresolvable hypothetical: is there a universe in which this story wasn't going to blow up huge? My general assumption, and I can't really offer any proof of this, is that in the world of the highly-interconnected, 24/7 news-o-sphere, the propagation of particular news stories is in fact somewhat chaotic and unpredictable, subject to all sorts of network effects and power law distributions. I don't know if that was the case for this particular story, but I'm pretty sure it can be true under certain circumstances: it's harder than it used to be to predict what the headline will be on a given day.

What was definitely true in this instance (as is very often the case) is that the blogs (at least the liberal ones) were ahead of the mainstream media in getting after the story; AIG was dominating the blogosphere discussion by midday on Sunday, whereas mainstream media outlets, except for the Times and Post, didn't really catch up until that evening. On the other hand, the conservative blogs were quite slow in gravitating toward the story, not really focusing upon it until late yesterday morning, in spite of the fact that it had all sorts of potential to be damaging to the Obama administration. Conservative bloggers should probably spend more time reading liberal blogs for story ideas (likewise, liberal bloggers should spend more time reading conservative ones).

The final lesson might be one for the Obama Administration: the possibility for tsunami-like waves of press coverage is probably far greater now than it used to be. This is not the first time that Obama's press shop appears to have been taken by surprise by the ferocity with which a story spread, the Jeremiah Wright case providing the most obvious prior example. What's interesting is that the Post's initial story appears to have been based largely on conversations with unnamed officials in the White House. I'd be curious to know whether someone in the White House spoke out of turn, or rather, whether the "leak" had the blessing of the Administration (the initial story, as compared to some of the subsequent coverage, was relatively sympathetic toward Geithner).

Complicating matters further for Obama was that the liberal blogosphere wasn't covering for him; on the contrary, the blogosphere tended to be eager to perpetuate the story. I need to be careful about what I say here -- although I'm apparently in the extreme minority in believing both that the particular bonuses at issue here are not an especially big deal and that the solutions to recoup them are undesirable, I fully understand the widespread outrage as to what has taken place and am empathetic to both implicit and explicit criticism of the Administration for it. Nevertheless, this story is noteworthy for being the first case in which prevailing opinion among liberal elites broke in such a way as to probably be unhelpful to the Administration's near-term political objectives. Nobody -- neither liberals nor conservatives -- are buying much of what Summers and Geithner are trying to sell.

101 comments

Wayward Son said...

(likewise, liberal bloggers should spend more time reading conservative ones).

Based on your analysis.. this would have the effect to allowing liberal bloggers to see the stories they began investigating days earlier, and from my past experience, add in a touch of misinterpretation and partisan rhetoric. If you meant 'for comic relief'.. sure.

Liberals make great reporters, conservatives make great commentators.

capt said...

Good/great work as always!

Thanks

capt said...

"conservatives make great commentators"

lolololo

Thanks I needed a good belly laugh to start the day!

Too funny!

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Liddy will be testifiying shortly. There's some protesters in the room now. You can see it here.

mikel said...

I think we can't assume that someone at AIG might not be working on spreading this story to distract from potentially much larger problems related to their handling of much larger proportions of their bailout package.

You're right that there are all sorts of factors that go into whether a story breaks large, but one of them is deliberate work by a company to focus attention on it.

This was one of the essential messages the panel had on Charlie Rose last night: this is big, but it shouldn't distract anyone from the bigger picture with respect to AIG. A smart but evil communications consultant would be insane not to try and focus public outrage in this direction, if only because AIG shares the outrage with the gov't.

Anthony Burns said...

from the fact " it's harder than it used to be to predict what the headline will be on a given day." it does not necessarily follow that the daily headline is less predestine. i.e. more complex does not necessarily mean more random

Juris said...

Mikel: your opening comment is consistent with what Eliot Spitzer writes on Slate -- that the bonus packages are an intentional distractor from the main story.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

I'd guess the reason conservative blogs didn't go bonkers yet was because they didn't get a chance to plug into the collective Monday afternoon (aka ElRushbo) until Monday afternoon.

I think many conservative blogs are steering clear of the outrage aimed directly at the employees receiving the bonuses. Even Rush blew off the bonus issue. Going after pay is going after capitalism in their eyes.

They are focused on making the administration look bad by trying to pin the allowance of bonuses on the administration. Vitter and DeMint are trying to put for a bill right now regarding this.

AaronRabi said...

If you think the conservative bloggers are slow, check out the conservative congressfolk:

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/bailout/house-republicans-planning-to-try-to-force-treasury-to-recoup-aig-bonuses/

Cantor is the guy who plans to show up fashionably late to a party and its dead by the time he gets there.

fred said...

You are correct for the time it exploded on the web - but I also think a primary driver was Bernake on 60 Minutes where he threw AIG completely under the bus...

Betsy said...

Great post as always- but we want to see your NCAA bracket!

harold said...

Nate wrote -

although I'm apparently in the extreme minority in believing both that the particular bonuses at issue here are not an especially big deal and that the solutions to recoup them are undesirable, I fully understand the widespread outrage as to what has taken place and am empathetic to both implicit and explicit criticism of the Administration for it

Let me take a deep breath and explain, without expressions of emotion, why I tend to disagree with most (but not all) of this.

The bonuses are a very big deal to me, because they are a highly relevant non-random sample of something that is very, very wrong with American business. Excessive pay to executives, unrelated to performance, at the cost of shareholders and other stakeholders.

Now, I strongly believe that executives must have considerable ability to take risks without facing personal financial ruin and censure. But a comical decoupling of massive pay from any performance standard does not make sense.

The measures to deal with it are unusual, but were necessitated by AIG's behavior. AIG could have simply announced a cut in bonuses as a condition of receiving bailout money, for example.

The idea that contracts cannot be affected by subsequent legislation is just plain wrong.

Neither I nor anyone else I've heard sincerely "blames Obama"; the mess was created before he got into office. The hypocrisy of right wing idiots should not prevent us from correcting this situation.

Henry Coppola said...

interesting post.

quick housekeeping note, you have Memeorandum as Memorandum a couple of times including the graph.

Davy said...

For me the outrage began back in 2008, particularly when Merrill Lynch rushed to get their bonuses out before the company was officially sold. But I don't think it really got rolling until the Rick Santelli/Jon Stewart/Jim Cramer thing happened. Stewart's confrontation with CNBC got a tremendous amount of web coverage and essentially gave the rest of us permission to express our festering indigence with what was happening in the economic sector. AIG was ripe for the picking. Bring on the torches and pitchforks; tar and feathers.

I think Jon Stewart was the pivot point.

Davy said...

One thing this debacle has done: it has actually united the country irrespective of how one thinks we got there. Everyone, regardless of political bent (with the exception of the fat cats on Wall St.) thinks this sucks.

SarahLawrenceScott said...

I've been watching with fascination and dismay the competition between accurate reporting of the story and a powerful, but apparently untrue, meme.

First of all, the accurate version (someone correct me if I'm wrong!): the bonuses in question are for employees of the financial products unit of AIG, a unit which lost a lot of money, and could reasonably be said to have some responsibility for the overall financial crisis. The AIG executives at the top of the company, on the other hand, have foregone bonuses and taken pay cuts. These top executives can be reasonably accused of incompetence and spinelessness.

The false meme is that these bonuses are going to AIG "executives" who are "enriching themselves." This meme is very widespread, for example, Chris Dodd released a written statement using it. It's also, mind-boggling, become standard on CNBC and MSNBC, among other places, to refer to these bonuses as going to "executives." That's just false, right? This post is not about my opinion on the merits of what has actually transpired, and whom should be blamed; it's about accurate reporting.

b said...

memeorandum is of critical importance to politics and tbe idea of the public sphere in general. The idea of shared responsibility and accountablity is shattered with this bonus payout scandal. Not to mention previous AIG bad behavior. This is what it looks like when the public has to hold these people accountable because no one in power will. If the Obama administration had handled it better this would not have blown up. They f'ed up.

I also agree with Davy above re the john stewart effect.

Juris said...

SLC: you're right. The correct story may be that the quant guys in London are extorting their own bosses: "Pay our bonuses or else we walk, and good luck figuring out how to unwind all those swaps!"

chimmy13 said...

Couldn't agree with you more Nate. This story has become way bigger than it merits. Yes it's an outrage, but lets get some perspective here. While outrageous the bonuses seem to be legal, and it really isn't so outrageous that we should risk setting a bad legal precedent.

Dwight said...

> You are correct for the time it exploded on the web - but I also think a primary driver was Bernake on 60 Minutes where he threw AIG completely under the bus...

This could be a Whitehouse/Treasury negotiate privately via public pressure. Treasury plays good cop, public and Congress play bad cop (unwitting or otherwise). Maybe it really got away from them, or maybe it's working for them better than they could have imagined.

In any event an upside is that I suspect that many CEOs no longer think "free money" when the Treasury opens their purse strings.

Patrick said...

I think that most non-Republicans understand that the financial sector is a huge mess. I just don't think they are going to be as quick to start blaming the firemen (Obama) for what the arsonist did. Why this story is big is because it highlights some of the arsonists. It is strange that the inside the beltway people are constantly trying to spin things in a negative way for Obama.

Most people are upset at AIG for paying the bonuses. Not at Obama for failing to stop it. But it is fascinating that so many pundits want to make the second case.

Dwight said...

> This meme is very widespread, for example, Chris Dodd released a written statement using it. It's also, mind-boggling, become standard on CNBC and MSNBC, among other places, to refer to these bonuses as going to "executives." That's just false, right?

*shrug* I didn't think names had come out.

P.S. This could also be wagging the dog. It's hard to deny the streak of xenophobia in the US yet this story has been absolutely trouncing the news cycle in spite of banks based in Germany and France near the top of the list of AIG debtors that benefited by AIG not folding.

I'm not saying that it is wrong but more despised than the French? Whoa.

Mike said...

Nate,

You're assuming that "the Administration's near-term political objectives" don't actually include getting rid of these bonuses. That is, you're assuming that they share your view that it's not actually important.

I agree with you that it's not actually important, and I certainly hope that the administration agrees, but it shouldn't be taken for granted.

Dwight said...

> I agree with you that it's not actually important, and I certainly hope that the administration agrees, but it shouldn't be taken for granted.

From a political future perspective it would be better to speak out, have this anger blow up now, and show solid best-effort towards resolving it than have the anger blow up in 2010 with the "Barak HUSSEIN Ombama was complicit in this outrage".

P.S. You never know, this might actually nearly on it's own forge the will to create another higher tax bracket.

Cugel said...

NATE: If you're really this confused, let me clarify:

The MAIN difference between the progressive era of the early 1900s and today's progressives was the outrage and hatred of the business aristocracy that permeated that era.

John D. Rockefeller was under a major threat of death, as threatening mobs gathered in the streets outside his mansion.

During the final days of the Hoover administration, angry unemployed workers threw stones at his limousine as it drove through the streets of Washington.

But this crisis has been a total disconnect. The entire effort has been to rescue the system as it was under Bush. To restore all the aristocratic executives to their pre-bubble positions.

Now we're finally starting to see people wake up and say "enough of this crap!"
The AIG scandal is the first wave where people's REAL ANGER at the bankers and elite CEOs who have run our nation into the ground broke into the open.

We can tap that anger to try and break the power of the elites over every aspect of our lives.

We can increase their taxes starting with the bonus tax.

We can use the power of our anti-trust legislation to break up their mega-corporations.

As Richard Reich says: "If they are too big to fail, they are too big." We can start with that.

Obama needs to understand that this isn't some crisis to be "managed" and "diffused" because it's getting him "off-track." It's an opportunity to fundamentally change the power relations in America and make our country a more democratic and egalitarian place.

Obama needs to be the spear-tip of populism against the elites. We need more powerful unions. WE need more powerful communities to take back our lives.

YES. Egalitarian means "more equal." We should have fewer gaps between rich and poor. We should use our tax laws to reduce the economic power of the top 1% by going back to the high taxes of the Roosevelt and Eisenhower administrations.

If conservatives don't like that -- let them get out of the way or get rolled under the bus!

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...
This post has been removed by the author.
liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

I hear people talking about a government takeover of AIG now.

Wouldn't we lose virtually all of our already committed $170 billion if we took them over now apart from any profits we made while selling off the profitable parts.

beavis said...

While outrageous the bonuses seem to be legal

Did a judge rule on this while everyone was asleep?

It is illegal, unethical and immoral.

Alastair said...

There is a reason that there is an irrational focus on these bonuses. It is to distract from the real theft. The giving of many 10's of billions of dollars to AIG couterparties like the crooks at Goldman Sachs.
See Michael Hudson's latest posting for detailed analysis - http://counterpunch.org/

Dwight said...

> Wouldn't we lose virtually all of our already committed $170 billion if we took them over now apart from any profits we made while selling off the profitable parts.

Keep in mind that AIG is NOT a bank. Where the bank can be taken over by FDIC without true insolvency, AIG would go through normal bankruptcy court.

Yeah, you can kiss that $170 billion good-bye and just hope it was money well spent to keep the financial system and eventually business and the economy from imploding. Because if it really did stop the later from happening it was the cheaper of two evils.

Wayward Son said...

Fodder for Stephen Colbert.

Way too high praise, but thanks.

Sacto Joe said...

1. The government owns over 80% of AGI.

2. In order to get "paid back", AGI needs to return to profitablility.

3. We are considering legislation that will PUNISH anyone unwise enough to earn a substantial bonus at AGI.

4. The best people will leave AGI as a result.

5. We end up cutting our nose off to spite our face.

Smart we're not.

fred said...

You can already kiss the 170 billiuon goodbye - it went to banks all over the world to cover the horrendous insurance AIG put out on mortgage backed securities. We own the company, and Bernake stated he wants it broken up and sold off to pay back the treasury - but is it worth that much? Do they still have those kinds of assets?

fred said...

Sacto Joe-

Very simplistic argument. The guys at AIG are easily replaceable will guys from Bear Stearns and Lehman who are still looking for work - and how about some fresh blood? Heard a great analysis of this on Bloomberg radio this AM...

Sacto Joe said...

And to prove my point (see above):

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/staff-uh-uh-we-deserve-this-money-2009-03-17.html

Patrick said...

I doubt anyone at AIG is irreplaceable. One of the great things about recessions is the availability of labor. Several of the bonus recipients have already left.

I think Cugel is right. The main mistake of the political media is to view Obama's actions with a short term lens. I don't believe Obama is acting for short term gain though. The media has been constantly wrong and Obama has been uncannily correct.

Wayward Son said...

The AIG scandal is the first wave where people's REAL ANGER at the bankers and elite CEOs who have run our nation into the ground broke into the open.

From my point of view, it is unfortunate that it took such a massively fraudulent and outrageous act to get the people's attention. You simply can't draw up a worse scenario than taxpayer money going to a company bankrupted by greed, where a good amount of that money ends up being applied as extra bonuses to the very people who ran the company into the ground in the first place, and described as 'retention' bonuses for a number of employees who've left the company. It's the motherlode of capitalist debauchery, all in one neat package.

There has been some reaction, slow to build, but one that has increased in intensity moreso than the usual financial story would. Even if some are punished.. and some money is recovered.. the basic problems will still be there, and there will be little political interest in pursuing it. 'We don't want to seem like we are piling on.' etc.

I think this is why Eliot "Charge it!" Spitzer is trying to widen people's eyes a bit.. without much hope, I'm afraid. I'm probably like a lot of people.. and will settle for at least one wrong being righted.

I'd love to see banking and investing go back to being something that is so boring, it puts everyone to sleep. But I don't believe Obama is interested in upsetting the apple cart.. considering how much prodding it takes to get him to throw away one bad apple.

Sacto Joe said...

Ergo, Fred, you're wrong.

These people are NOT easily replaced. And if they go, it's going to cost us BIG TIME.

Dwight said...

BTW the trouble with AIG not being a bank and therefore not falling under the FDIC rules/mechanism is also applicable to most of Citibank.

Wayward Son said...

fred -

It's not just 'the guys at AIG'.. the bonuses went to the guys who were in the Financial Products division that specifically caused the huge risk that bankrupted the company. A group of chimpanzees might have made a bigger physical mess, but it's unlikely they would have cost us $170 billion.

Boing said...

Hehehe... I love the 60% of people in that Survey USA poll who claim that if they'd received the bonus, they'd have repaid it. Sure, guys, you'd definitely have given back the $2m on a point of principle.

How little self-knowledge do people have? It really is remarkable.

On a side note, I do wish people would stop using the term 'meme'. It's embarrassing. Even top thinkers like Dan Dennett have got sucked in. There's just something so damn catchy about it...erm...

Juris said...

@Cugel: I think Obama's team does understand that the economic crisis in general -- and people's growing open criticism of "Wall Street" (and more generally of management and the champions of unregulated free markets) -- is a political opportunity. Not just a political opportunity for the Democrats (unless, of course, Obama and the Congressional leaders take a major hit for mismanaging the recovery), but an opportunity to shift the economic balance of power in a more liberal direction.

Certainly Obama's effort to link up energy policy, education policy, and health policy represents a commitment to fundamentally change our political economy. And I think Obama is sincere in saying this must be done if we as a society/economy/country are going to be competitive in the future. It's the opportunity of a century in that sense to realign certain basic social commitments.

At the same time, both Obama/Dems and the GOP are at risk of becoming irrelevant to the extent that street action (protests) may start to become the defining political mode. And yet both parties are seeking to ride and profit from, not just stifle, the energy from the street.

Oh what a fun time to be in!

beavis said...

What the hell is wrong with you Joe?

You think this morons who assisted in destroying the economy are special and we need them?

You are deluding yourself. These people are fucking morons.

Sacto Joe said...

Hey, beavis, it's time to put a reign on your anger. Road rage is simply dangerous. It's time for clear thinking, not knee-jerk emotionalism.

Life ain't fair, and it's time to move on. There's far bigger fish to fry.

Boing said...

Beavis, if it's enjoyable or consoling to imagine that these guys are particularly stupid or immoral compared to the rest of us, then hey, go for it.

Meanwhile, though, it will obscure what's actually happened to the Western economies, which is that we've been living the last decade or more on the never-never. Chopping up rubbish mortgages into complicated mishmashes and selling them on while buying more wasn't a great idea, nor was insuring the people who were doing so. But nor was taking on the debt. 1 in 5 US homeowners now owe more than the value of their homes - and that's before we even get to credit cards and cars.

We've been living beyond our means - as nations, as corporations, and as individuals. We're all - or nearly all - complicit, because we bought into the delusion of endless growth. Diatribes against particular 'morons' won't help this, nor your blood pressure.

Juris said...

@SarahLawrenceScott: Here's a story that confirms my response to you about the appropriate meme to describe what's going on internally at AIG. It's a case of the quants extorting their own (new) bosses if they don't get the promised bonuses, and the bosses concluding that the cost of losing the quants (and losing to them in court) far outweighed the cost of paying the bonuses.

Realist said...

Joe,

Why on earth would you want to keep these people? They have caused immense harm. Keeping them around so they can keep selling insurance on fraudulent securities with no collateral is about the worse idea I can think of... the only worse idea I can think of is paying them huge bonuses with tax payer money to further ruin our country and the world economy.

They have been part of a massive scam... keeping the scam going in the hopes that the government can get in on part of it, is a terrible idea that will not work. We have lost our "investment" (or bailout to the upper-upper class as it should be called) in AIG. Let's at least stop the pain.

Dwight said...

> You can already kiss the 170 billiuon goodbye - it went to banks all over the world to cover the horrendous insurance AIG put out on mortgage backed securities. We own the company, and Bernake stated he wants it broken up and sold off to pay back the treasury - but is it worth that much? Do they still have those kinds of assets?

The highest AIG has ever had on the books for stockholder equity is $100 billion (back in 2006) so it's HIGHLY doubtful the government is ever going to see a full return of the money. Especially in the current buyer's market it would be brutal. They have to be hoping to get the whole back to break-even (or even profitable) going forward so they can hold it for long enough to recover significant portions of the money spent.

harold said...

SarahLawrenceScott -

The false meme is that these bonuses are going to AIG "executives" who are "enriching themselves."

Are you joking? It isn't false, and it's transparently obvious that it isn't false.

Although technically some of the bonuses are presumably aimed at people with titles like "analyst" and "associate", everyone who is targeted for one of these bonuses is in a professional position, and many will have undeniably executive titles.

Of course they're enriching themselves. There is no possible way to accept a seven figure or six figure bonus without enriching yourself.

Sacto Joe -

If we were talking about people who displayed strong independent judgment, and argued against investments that later led to disaster in the fact of opposition, your comments would make sense.

We are talking about people who did the exact opposite, going along en masse with what turned out to be a disastrous fad, and yes, "enriching" themselves as they went along. I'll bet some or most of them put their own money in assets other than those they were loading down AIG with, too.

These are not good targets for retention.

By the way, I know good people who are associated with AIG, in an investment division (at a wholly owned subsidiary). I know good people who are associated with some of the other bailed out institutions. I don't mean to be excessively harsh. I'm not talking about firing people for things they didn't control, or denying salaries. But this is ridiculous.

momo said...

60 minutes, Jon Stewart, and don't forget Letterman and Leno: the TV echo chamber reaches folks that Twitter, Blogs and trad news media outlets don't. The feedback loop has to include YouTube as well.

Juris said...

The question whether the London quants are expendable or replaceable has to be put into a timeline.

When all hell broke loose last fall, and the initial AIG money came from the Fed, according to Bernanke we were on the brink of a global financial collapse. The immediate goal was to avoid such a calamity. This is the mood and context of TARP as well. It was probably unthinkable to try to replace the AIG's quants on the spot -- or to just let AIG collapse -- because of AIG's role in insuring so many other foreign and domestic financial institutions.

But having avoided the instant calamity, the question whether AIG's quants are replaceable may have a more complex answer now. For the most part they kept working at AIG, presumably helping to unwind many of the complex swaps, while AIG in effect "paid off" on insurance policies to other major financial houses -- thereby AIG served as a "pass-through" agency for both Fed and TARP moneys. Again, the main goal was to keep the financial system as a whole going, and in consideration of AIG's central role in an ill-begotten nexus. It's probably true that in order to bring this about, and given the complexity of the mutual arrangement that had grown up, AIG had to retain the bulk of its quant staff.

Now, however, surely it should be possible to replace many of the quants. And I would question how much of what is needed now is a bookkeeping and accounting operation as opposed to a strategic and analytic one.

Surely there are other people who can conduct such operations; and in the longer run there must be. I would ask the powers in charge at AIG how far they have moved toward such a replacement, or whether they stayed with their old crew long past the point when they were truly needed -- and thereby left themselves in a position to be extorted by their own employees.

nova_middle_man said...

I view this whole issue similar to earmarks. In both cases you are talking about making a huge deal out of an issue that barely makes a dent in the greater picture. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish.

__________________________________

Linking to NPR here which is one
of if not the best source for unbiased reporting.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102050887&ft=1&f=1014

To me this continues a pattern of Obama saying one thing and staff doing something else behind the scenes. Not a particular bash because all presidents do this but Obama isn't the perfect angel that many people think he is.

__________________________________

I'm not a lawyer but does anyone think AIG people could actually sue and win here if the bonuses were taken away.

Boing said...

I bet I was at college with some of these "London quants"

In which case, i take it all back. Burn them at the stake... they're almost certainly a bunch of complete and utter quants.

smk22 said...

Beavis,

I think you need to make a distinction between the idiotic way in which CDS's were priced and the paltry cash kept on hand to back them from the pretty good idea of creating them in the first place.

The opportunity for lenders to purchase insurance against mortgage default is actually a great idea.

It's the morons that decided to price these things so low that are to blame. In a sense, they're like those at investment banks who decided the housing market could only go higher and the rate of default would remain miniscule.

I think whatever regulations come out of this need to address the way such insurance is priced and traded, because if priced accurately, it actually makes the system more stable.

Smoking Aces said...

I view this whole issue similar to earmarks. In both cases you are talking about making a huge deal out of an issue that barely makes a dent in the greater picture. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish.

Great comment by nova. I agree in many ways. But I also revert to my initial recommendation for AIG.

Let. Them. Fail.

They are disgusted and should be forced into bankruptcy, divvied up, and have their assets disperesed into the rest of the financial community.


For all of you so worked up about $165 million, I can sympathize. See how it feels to get worked up over throwing money at failed people, businesses and ideas.

Now, my question is where were you (or better yet, why not the outrage) when we were (and still are) doling out [insert a very large number] billions (or trillions) to all of these failed institutions?

This is what you get with bullshit government intervention. I've heard some people claim that this bonus money is an example of the free market failing. That's a complete misdirect. The true "free market" would have let this company go under and there wouldn't be millions of dollars available to be dispersed to a bunch of failures. That's how capitalism works. You get what you deserve with this intervention bullshit.

Dwight said...

> You get what you deserve with this intervention bullshit.

*shrug* Yeah but a bunch of pissed of people that are ready to rip a new hole in the cloistered elite whose greed and indifference were the critical ingredient in this is probably a small price to pay to avoid what you get without it.

fred said...

Wayward Son-

I know the money went to exactly the division that caused the problem, and that division still holds a trillion dollars in risky stuff that needs to be unwound.

To whoever thinks these guys are irreplaceable - the Bear Stearns guys invented this business and are better at it. That is why they went down first, they had the most at risk, but they would also likely be best at unwinding the position. I actually heard two professors discussing this on Bloomberg this morning, until you show me better credentials - I will stay with them.

fred said...

I hope all you guys acting like you know it all on this thread are listening to Liddy's testimony right now - it is very enlightening and he makes a great argument why they need to be left in business to unwind these positions - the downside risk is way too big - it is $1.6 TRILLION dollars today, when this started it was over $3 TRILLION dollars. I sure don't want the Treasury taking that on.

Of course, once they unwind the postions all these guys should go on food stamps for life.

Dwight said...

> it is $1.6 TRILLION dollars today, when this started it was over $3 TRILLION dollars.

So they made $1.4 trillion dollars? Break out the Champagne and caviare!

By Champagne & caviare I mean Grape Crush and Highlighter Fish Sticks.

P.S. That's one hell of a hole! Is he giving any idea of how far out of it they expect to get? Or how fast?

Smoking Aces said...

@Dwight,

There's no quantifiable proof that we'd be any worse off by letting these guys fail. That's purely a myth perpetuated by people who want to have and keep control of your lives.

I agree with Cugel (the quote he posted, at least), although I might be ideologically opposed to him in almost every other way:

Let them fail. If they're "too big" to fail, then they're too big.

Lynn said...

"the solutions to recoup them are undesirable." I agree. It does seem like abusing power and stretching the law.

"the particular bonuses at issue here are not an especially big deal." I disagree. Yes, it is now small change in our weird world, and there are bigger fish to fry. But, just as AIG was too big to fail (although failing they are, in spit of infusions), it is also too big to get away with more malfeasance. If we are worried about inspiring confidence, it seems we have to show that companies will be held accountable and the government is effective in achieving that. How can anything stimulative have credibility if AIG can continue to waste money?

Smoking Aces said...

keep control of our lives.


Sorry, had to correct that. It just didn't look right.

Dwight said...

Incidentally are they talking about negotiating reductions in debt with anyone? Because it would seem they have a bit of MAD leverage there. "You are taking 80 cents on the dollar or you can spend the next 15 years in bankruptcy court fighting to try recover a fraction of a penny from the corpse of AIG."

quiet_celt said...

Good article, wrong conclusion. One thing you seem to be missing is that contracts get rewritten all the time. Also we are talking about employee contracts here. Another thing is this is money to bail out a company to keep it from further destroying the economy.

Since it is federal money being basically gifted to a private company, the Fed ought to have some say as well as "We the People". This is money they haven't earned and have no rights to treat thus. Furthermore these bonuses are likely all based on the fraudulent transactions that occurred in England and thus are not really *real*. Thus if there had been no fraudulent transactions to trigger these bonuses they wouldn't exist.

Still yet furthermore, it is beginning to appear that major fraud has been going on in this division and that criminal investigations into all those persons getting bonuses should be ongoing. I'm all for preserving contracts between private parties. Let AIG pay out those bonuses based on their own cash, and not on cash being pumped in by taxpayers.

Or better yet, let's take back all the money the Fed has given them, let them pay out all the bonuses and when they fail totally and catastrophically let's sell off the remains, strip the corporate veil on these unfit corporate leaders and leave them in the poor house.

Smoking Aces said...

I repeat again, but from a slightly different angle, it's a little hypocritical to get outraged over throwing $165 million dollars at a failed business and people within that business and be perfectly okay throwing hundreds of billions of dollars away at other failed businesses and people.

Dwight said...

> There's no quantifiable proof that we'd be any worse off by letting these guys fail.

Smoking Aces, besides your continued use of "proof" when it should be "evidence", we've already established that you seem incapable of noticing solid evidence if it stomped up behind you and boxed your ears while it corn-holed you.

Smoking Aces said...

...we've already established that you seem incapable of noticing solid evidence if it stomped up behind you and boxed your ears while it corn-holed you.

Do you have proof....err, evidenc...of this?

Smoking Aces said...

Disagreeing with you ideologically on most things does not make me impervious to facts or evidence.

SarahLawrenceScott said...

Harold said:
Are you joking? It isn't false, and it's transparently obvious that it isn't false.

Although technically some of the bonuses are presumably aimed at people with titles like "analyst" and "associate", everyone who is targeted for one of these bonuses is in a professional position, and many will have undeniably executive titles.

Of course they're enriching themselves. There is no possible way to accept a seven figure or six figure bonus without enriching yourself.


The distinction is, essentially, whether the quants can sign their own bonus checks.

They can't.

This is somewhat analogous to a baseball GM signing some really stupid free agent contracts for lots of money, and then insisting on playing those people even when they suck.

In that case, the GM isn't enriching himself. He's stupid, and bull-headed, and a bit cowardly, but it's not for financial gain. On the other hand, the players who took the big contracts and didn't deliver may perhaps be greedy and lazy.

No sports commentator would ever say "damn team management took our ticket money and used it to make themselves rich." They would instead say something like "the damn GM is an idiot, and those sucky players made out like bandits."

If our sports commentators can make that distinction, can't our political and economic commentators do the same?

VizierVic said...

Liddy's comments this afternoon broached one topic which clearly isn't being looked at -- these payments aren't bonuses. They are not and were not intended to be performance bonuses of any sort, if Liddy's testimony can be relied upon. AIG apparently engaged a number of its staff to stay and wrap up business the firm was involved in. AIG was doing nothing more than providing a payment to an employees who knew that their jobs would disappear when they had finished accomplishing them and who would have every incentive to move on before those programs were completed (because they were not under contract to remain to completion). Many firms which are merging or going out of business offer such payments to employees because they need their expertise while they wind up business. Again, if Liddy is telling the truth, that is what these payments were for, not performance bonuses. It does make a difference.

fred said...

Dwight-

Those trillions above are the possible losses, which have decreased. It probably cost them billions to bet trillions of risk off the books.

Looks like it will be largely unwound in about a year.

Wayward Son said...

Well, the money that was paid was set at exactly the level of the bonuses for the previous year, so that would be a hell of a coincidence.

"Yes, we need you to stay and finish up some work, and we will pay you.. {flings dart} $6 million! Wow, that's exactly the size of your last year's bonus. What a coincidence."

"Next!"

Michael said...

Davy posted the following:

"[...]Stewart's confrontation with CNBC got a tremendous amount of web coverage and essentially gave the rest of us permission to express our festering indigence with what was happening in the economic sector.[...]"

From dictionary.com:

in⋅di⋅gence

–noun
seriously impoverished condition; poverty.

Syn: Poverty; penury; destitution; want; need; privation; lack.


So you were more right in your (mis)use of that word than you realized!

Steve-O said...

Hey everybody! Just wanted to welcome you all to join the conversation at www.penistalk.com.

It's mostly for guys to sit around and discuss their schlongs, but women are more than welcome too!

We usually talk about sizes and shapes of our penises or just about anything else that cums to mind - every pun intended!

You don't have to be hung like a farm animal to participate. We have posters who can only muster a 2 or 3 inch penis fully hard. We also have a few lucky ones sporting a 10 or 11 inch member. Ladies, we would like some contributory dialogue about what you prefer and just what exactly you want to see in your lover's penis - or is that lovers' penises?

Come join. Won't you?!

Pragmatus said...

Department of Picky, Picky Picky...

Nate, in paragraph 4 you say "definitive liberal orientation" when you mean "definite liberal orientation". Definitive means essentially "defining", definite means "unquestioned", which I think is what you were aiming for.

Lib-Def-Freedom... Thanks for the link to the hearing. Should be a real barn dance!! I love to see these charlatans on the griddle.

If I ever hear the stupid "retention" argument in favor of bonuses like these again I will throw up on the poor slob unlucky enough to have said it.

:o)

wv sobact: What we can expect from Liddy today?

Chris Rich said...

Returning to the core of Nate's piece, the media drivel stream, I made my google news aggregate feed into a kind of media weather vane by spending a week observing the feed timing patterns.

The useful stuff from Reuters, Bloomberg, NYT and various wire services is usually succinct with matter of fact leads and is all ready by 9 am.

The big daily right wing FUXABCCNN flush hits the the pipes after 9:30 or so as the markets open.

It usually emits a pile of shrill lead lines to put BO in the worst light but the actual pieces are bland and hedged 6 ways to sunday.

By midday the blog mastication begins and the regurgitation hits cable news for dinner followed by comic belches off into the evening.

Hope it's helpful.

Steve-O said...

The burning question of the day: is a smaller johnson better for anal? And that goes for hetero-anal or homo-anal sex.

It's a lively discussion, so please come join. Politics and economics can be such a drag. Why not come talk about penises instead?

Our website www.penistalk.com features online polls about penises. Our most popular polls are the ones related to size - both length and girth.

Maybe I'm spilling the beans, but according to current data, the average penis length is 5.8 inches for males 18 years and older. The average girth is 5.1 inches around the broadest part of the penis.

Some 2% of the population has a penis that is 8 inches long or more. A whopping 15% have one that is less than 5 inches long.

Now that you know the stats, won't you come join?!

Joel said...

I think a good hefty tax on the proceeds of looting might be a good way to stabilize our economic system in the long term. A specialized tax that only hits AIG employees would be unethical, but I think introducing disincentives for that particular class of monetary gain would be a long-term good.

Pragmatus said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Pragmatus said...

A good healthy tax on penis-focused posts might prove useful too...

wv brate: bray + grate

Pragmatus said...

Why go after AIG when Pope Conservatus LV provides a much more entertaining target.

Dwight said...

> Disagreeing with you ideologically on most things does not make me impervious to facts or evidence.

Your insistence that there is something resembling credible evidence for Intelligent Design is the perfect example of the same thing you are doing now. You want your "beliefs" left out of this? If by that you want left out that you believe that God created the earth? Well that's fine by me. As long as you can see and understand that that is faith based rather than evidence based. But as soon as you try proclaim that it is evidence based, try to claim there is evidence for ID, and try to claim there isn't a huge amassed body of evidence against, well you reveal just how abysmally poor your judgement is in assessing the state of whether something is or is not evidence.

That's the hideous thing about the ID sham. It teaches and promotes brutally errant logic and thinking patterns that then propagate through to other subjects. :/

harold said...

Smokin' Aces -

There's no quantifiable proof that we'd be any worse off by letting these guys fail. That's purely a myth perpetuated by people who want to have and keep control of your lives.

You may be right. I'm sure we have very different ideas about how to keep banking alive in a crisis like this, but the idea of just letting these particular asshats fail may be an area of overlap.

The basic difference between me and a libertarian is that I believe in strong programs that serve the common good and provide sustenance and dignity to the most vulnerable. In business, I believe those of us who choose to take calculated risks should be exposed to the losses if we fail as much as to the gains if we succeed.

This point was moot, though, during the election. I wouldn't have voted Republican anyway for a large number of reasons, but neither major party seriously ran against the "bailout", which was initiated under Bush at any rate (with Democrat support). Bipartisan from day one.

SarahLawrenceScott -

That's a somewhat good point, but first of all, I suspect that some of these bonuses went to people who do have the effective power to "write their own checks". A guy who got a 6.4M bonus must have a voice in the highest echelons of management.

Second of all, I wasn't accusing them of writing their own checks.

I'm merely saying that the shareholders had allowed a very bad bonus structure to be put in place. Now the taxpayers are in charge and I don't think that we should go with that structure.

I'm quite familiar with quants - I even have a friend who's in a program that used to pump out quants (the current students have low morale), an electrical engineer. Quants are highly trained, but a bad idea that ignores fundamental economic issues is a bad idea, even if it came from ostensibly complex mathematical considerations.

I'm not advocating that anyone be fired or censured, because I don't have enough information to know if that would be justified. I do have enough information to know that a round of seven and six figure bonuses is not justified.

Dwight said...

> Those trillions above are the possible losses, which have decreased. It probably cost them billions to bet trillions of risk off the books. Looks like it will be largely unwound in about a year.

But it's very good news! That's a kickass investment payoff, billions for trillions (actually it sounds like it's only 1.1 trillion that they've managed to tie-off, and all of the credit-swaps).

See all these hedges that others (particularly the banks but not just them) used that AIG sold to them are an important leaning point. When you hedge you protect yourself from a downside. If the other side of the hedge falls through you are no longer protected! Now you've got the liability that you are "naked" to, and potentially you are fooked too if it was big enough. So you default on something, boom you are in bankruptcy too, and it propagates down the line.

This is how the AIG bankruptcy could propagate and leave the US and global economies trapped with assets in international litigation and courts for potentially years (US bankruptcy laws where companies continue to operate aren't anywhere close to universal).

Anyway I'm going to go back and listen to it. His testimony is good stuff.

Something interesting that I thought I heard come up was that AIG has only spent 80 billion (I assume the other 90 billion is the Treasury assuming risks). If that is so, and they can successfully tie-off the other 1.6 trillion in exposure then the government does stand a decent chance of recovering their cash (less interest).

beavis said...

Stop feeding Smoking Asses. Or are you trying to set him off like he did when he posted under Ass Rider.

Do you really want him posting his illogic and threats under the handle Rusty Trombone? Because that is what is coming.

Mike in Maryland said...

Remember people:

Do
Not
Feed
The
TROLLs

DNFTT

We ALL know the TROLLs who post here, including the TROLL who is trying to dominate this thread.

Even one response to correct a point they misstate is feeding the TROLLs.

DNFTT in any fashion.

Ignore the TROLLs.

Scroll past the posting of any TROLL.

Do not read the TROLLs, and you will not be tempted to respond to the TROLLs.

If the TROLLs are ignored, they will eventually disappear.

PLEASE - DNFTT

Mike in Maryland said...

mikel said...
I think we can't assume that someone at AIG might not be working on spreading this story to distract from potentially much larger problems related to their handling of much larger proportions of their bailout package.

In this case, it might have backfired in some sense.

The attention on the 'retention bonuses' is bringing attention to the high 'compensation' that exist in many companies, and focusing attention on the disparate level of pay between the common person and the corporate executives (and their favored workers).

As such, increased scrutiny of payments for services rendered will happen over the next few months. It will not be nearly as public as the AIG 'retention bonus' issue, but it will be done in the backrooms of Congress by the staff of the Senators and Congressmen.

I expect that one or more bills will be introduced in Congress in the next few months, aimed at a complete overhaul of the compensation system. Expect it to be in the form of a tax package.

Hari Mallidi said...

The characterization of these as 'bonuses' is totally wrong. These were incentives that AIG needed to provide the employees in the AIGFP arm of the company to guarantee that the individuals most likely to be able to unwrap the toxic CDS positions would not leave. That is why, the 'bonuses' are equivalent to the 'bonuses' the employee received in 2007. Likely, as Bear Sterns was going under last March - the AIG executives could see the writing on the wall, that if they don't undo these toxic positions the company will go bankrupt. Hence, they needed to keep the people who developed these products to unwind them. This also explains why some people left the company after they received there 'retention' bonuses - because the retention bonus was not keep them around for 2009, but simply to keep them around until they could undo the positions that they were instrumental in implementing.

The major problem that occurred before AIG could implement their plan was that their credit rating was reduced - triggering the need to raise capital that they did not have - and hence the government bailouts became necessary.

The real story here is that AIG over-paid for the settling of these positions with the counter-parties to the agreements. The government should have negotiated with the counter-parties and been able to reduce the cost of settling these positions. That is, instead of settling with Goldman for 8billion, they might have been able to force Goldman to take a 2-3 billion write-down and gotten the instruments off of the AIG's books for 4-5billion. If the counter-parties balked at these arrangements, then the government could simply have allowed AIG to declare bankruptcy, leaving the counter-parties with nothing. This would have left intact the possibility that the government may have made money on these transactions when the economy recovered in the future.

That is, what they should have done is nationalized AIG and completely wiped out the share-holders and dealt directly with the counter-parties and gotten a better deal to close out these toxic positions.

Mike in Maryland said...

Hari Mallidi said...
The characterization of these as 'bonuses' is totally wrong. These were incentives that AIG needed to provide the employees in the AIGFP arm of the company to guarantee that the individuals most likely to be able to unwrap the toxic CDS positions would not leave.

If AIG characterizes the money as 'retention bonuses', then why don't we believe them?

Because they CLEARLY were NOT 'retention bonuses'.

FACT (from CNN [http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/18/aig.greenberg]:

The ex-CEO of the battered insurance and financial services company AIG said Wednesday the bonus plan for executives at his old firm was slipshod in recent years, with employees frequently leaving after receiving retention bonuses.

"You get a retention bonus and there was no handcuffs on that," said former CEO Maurice "Hank" Greenberg. "You get a retention bonus and you can leave the next day. There was no commitment, somebody saying, 'You have to stay.' And many people left. They took the bonus, said thank you and left."


A 'guarantee to not leave'? If they accept the bonus, then can say "Good Bye" on their way out the door to their next employer, that is a 'guarantee to not leave'?

Get away from Lush Rimbaugh, Redstate, Bill O'Lielly, Man Coulter, and all other GOOPer right-wing talking points, and we might be willing to listen to you. As long as you parrot talking points, don't expect us to entertain having much of a discussion with you.

beavis said...

The leader of the pack of thieves disagrees with you Hari.

He admitted that all of them are easily replaceable.

beavis said...

Because they CLEARLY were NOT 'retention bonuses'.

Yup.

When I was in the service I was offered a retention bonus. I didn't re-enlist.

I guess I should have expected the bonus anyway?

Geoffrey said...

Here's the logic in paying the bonuses:

1. If AIG goes out of business, dozens upon dozens of companies who used credit default swaps and other things as insurance against risk go out of business, and other companies that depend of the first set of companies staying in business also go bankrupt, and so on, and so on, until the entire world economy completely collapses. Now, you can argue whether or not this series of events would happen, but the possibility of such is basically the reason why the Federal government is shoveling hundreds of billions of dollars down the hole that is AIG in the first place.

2. For AIG to remain in business, the people who created this crap need to remain with the company, because they are the only people who understand how the stupid things work.

3. If these people leave AIG en masse, AIG will go out of business no matter how much money the Feds shovel at it, because nobody will know how to run the place.

4. These employees no longer want to be part of such a disaster of a company and can find work elsewhere, unless they are paid very well to stay, via the bonuses in question.

5. If the bonuses are repealed, these employees will leave AIG en masse.

Now, assuming all of the above is accurate (an extremely big assumption, of course), either we pay these assholes their bonuses, or the economy goes into the second Great Depression. This seems to be Edward Libby's position, and it might very well be accurate.

Mike in Maryland said...

Geoffrey said...
2. For AIG to remain in business, the people who created this crap need to remain with the company, because they are the only people who understand how the stupid things work.

According to the GOOPer Holy Book of Wall Street (the Wall Street Journal), "For an outsider to take on the job of unwinding such a portfolio is a thankless task at best. The pool of people in this unregulated market — one that does not have an exchange or central clearing mechanism — who could handle such an undertaking is limited, said Jim Bianco, president of Bianco Research LLC."

'Limited', not ZERO.

3. If these people leave AIG en masse, AIG will go out of business no matter how much money the Feds shovel at it, because nobody will know how to run the place.

See answer to 2. (above)

4. These employees no longer want to be part of such a disaster of a company and can find work elsewhere, unless they are paid very well to stay, via the bonuses in question.

See answer to 2. (above)

5. If the bonuses are repealed, these employees will leave AIG en masse.

See answer to 2. (above)

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2009/03/18/is-there-no-one-else-to-unwind-these-trades/

beavis said...

Weren't you guys watching the hearings? Liddy admitted these guys are easily replaceable.

The only prerequisites for doing this sort of work are:

1. A disturbing lack of morals and ethics

2. A heartbeat

The idea that these people are highly skilled and intelligent is a myth.

Statler N Waldorf said...

Nate, you have company. Adam Davidson of NPR's Planet Money agrees with you.

I Don't however. AIG is 80% owned by the US federal government. That makes us an 800 pound gorilla in the boardroom. Like it or not, AIG works for us or we fire their asses. They call these bonuses incentives to keep them employed at AIG. Given the current shape of the employment market for this line of work, you don't need to give anyone an incentive to do this job. There are alot of unemployed bankers more than happy to replace these people, who are clearly incompetent anyway and should be let go.

Personally, I'd fire all of them, everyone from the board of directors tot he janitor. Replace them with people whose track records don't smell of so much fail like theirs do.

Davy said...

@Michael

HA! indigence...I didn't catch that until I read your post. I reckon that's why spell check didn't flag it. Dontcha just love irony?

HM1973 said...

Wasn't trying to parrot RW talking points above ... besides I haven't seen anyone talk about the second half of the post.
As reprehensible as the bonuses are, from the mind set of an AIG executive in March (just after Bear when down) they make sense - they didn't want to seek alternative personnel because it was faster to accomplish what they wanted with the staff already present.
I think the best way to recoup those bonuses is to tax them to get them back.
It is amazing, the amount of time being devoted to this - when Merrill executives stole 3.6 billion from the Treasury in December. 6 top executives got 30million each - That's 6 people who got more than the hundreds at AIG. Just absolutely scandalous.

Mike in Maryland said...

HM1973 said...
Wasn't trying to parrot RW talking points above

Change your posting ID and forget you did that?

This is the first post from 'HM1973' on this thread, so just which post are you discussing?

Pro said...

If you thought it couldn’t get any worse than Bush. The dems are spending more and making grossly incompetent mistakes. Here is the latest (quite shocking) of their trillion dollar blunders:

Cap Schmap:
http://www.butasforme.com/2009/03/17/obamas-stimulus-bill-explicitly-grants-aig-the-legal-right-to-hand-out-bonuses/

beavis said...

We've been living beyond our means - as nations, as corporations, and as individuals. We're all - or nearly all - complicit, because we bought into the delusion of endless growth. Diatribes against particular 'morons' won't help this, nor your blood pressure.

People leaving beyond their means are morons as well and need to understand that.

Just because most people are so stupid they think endless growth is possible doesn't let them off the hook. They are stupid and need to understand it. Excusing this as a herd mentality is exactly what got us into this mess.

Neither does taking a job where ethics and morals is a liability.

The problem is that no lessons will be learned, when the economy improves these same morons will again start collecting toys and accumulated debt for it.

Stop excusing idiocy.

PeteKent said...

Understanding of the Blogosphere’s ability to influence or promote a story is not advanced by the AIG saga since both the WaPo and the NYTs served as kindling. I’d like to see what they do with a story not backed by a legitimate news organization (like the Question of Obama’s American Birth).

Obama I think was at least guilty of negligence this week, possibly guilty of hypocrisy and passivity, and making a lot of smart people wonder why is he behaving like this.

The Prez could have tolerated AIG as a minor embarrassment going on in his Constitutional professorial way about the sanctity of contracts and how this was a minor issue in comparison to the task we had head of us: restoring the economy, fixing health care, addressing global warning and correcting the imbalance between rich and poor.

Instead he chose to very publicly to call the matter an “Outrage” insuring it would be the biggest story of the week and blowing at least two days of life into it, on Monday.

By Tuesday the Democratic House caucus had come out in force for a confiscatory tax as did members of the Senate, along with some calls for Hari Kari even among the Republicans! The Assembly during France’s Reign of Terror is the only suitable parallel that I can think of.

Hearings were held on Wednesday, extending the extraordinary life of this story. Many were stepping back and recalling that there was debate about this at the time of the stimulus bill and many of the GOP and some Dems were relieved to see anti-bonus language stripped from the stimulus bill. It was served up so members could vote on it as an amendment and then stripped out of the final bill.

Barney Frank was heard to remark, “I actually voted to get the bonuses back before I voted against it!” John Kerry was seen standing off to the side, stroking his ample chin and nodding approvingly.

At the Hearings Mr. Frank lost the key exchange and it certainly appeared that the regard for individual liberty was slipping in favor of retribution at any price even if it meant the personal safety of the business men and women involved. The only parallel is to that fan that cost the Cubs a Series appearance by interfering with a ball in play. Indeed his instincts were usually the correct one (Cool! Get that ball!) He lost the sense of the moment and all was lost for Chicago. It may be in some fashion that it is the same with these financial professionals, but no one seemed interested in doing anything but treating them as nothing but a fetid whole.
Against this backdrop, the tax bill was still a surprise. What a breathtaking act of stupidly (as Nate has correctly observed above) and such a causal dismissal of the Constitutional rights of the people! This is a once in a century act and it will forever define the current House Democrats as a sorry lot and Barney Frank, their modern day Madame Defarge.

I have always had more faith in Barack Obama than the House Democratic leadership. As I observe his behavior as President I must say that my respect for him has declined. Fundamentally he is passive. Prefers to be head of state, sitting at the throne of government, while his Prime Minister, Nancy Pelosi, struggles with the busy details. Like the House of Lords, the Senate can usually be counted on to check the excesses of the lower house, the “people’s house”. Ahem!

Of course there is always the Presidential veto that Obama has. How majestic he floats above us, his countenance supreme while we wait for him to opine, to inform, to favor us with his wisdom with regard to the issues of the day. Yet more often than not he keeps his counsel. Preferring to govern reactively, waiting for Congress to act, as with this Tax Bill.

Had Obama wished it he could have nipped this in the bud by saying Tuesday night that while he understood the justifiable anger of the House Democratic caucus the notion of imposing confiscatory taxes on people’s incomes for behavior that was not illegal or even improper at the time - -at least not in all cases – would be undemocratic and that of course he would veto any such unconstitutional law. Enjoining us to get back to business! He could have really commanded our attention at that moment had he presented his plan for the banks.

Which of course he was unprepared for which is why he should have shut his fucking mouth on Monday and let a little mild criticism wash over him and perhaps even defend the action he took. Imagine that!
Suppose Obama has taken Monday to be a teaching moment about the interplay between free enterprise, the market, the public good and the government responsibility to make it all work? He might have moved us off the thoughts of the Guillotine to thoughts of how we might work together to get out of this crisis and understand complexity.

We have yet to see such a teaching moment from President Obama and one is long overdue.


(You can now follow me on Twitter: PeteKent01)