In attempting to forecast the outcome of the six major categories in the Academy Awards, my computer model had four hits and two misses. The misses were in the categories of Best Supporting Actress, where Penelope Cruz beat the computer's pick of Taraji P. Henson, and Best Actor, where Sean Penn beat Mickey Rourke.
What to make of this performance? Heath Ledger's award for Best Supporting Actor was a virtual lock; it's hard to take any credit at all for that one. The awards for Slumdog Millionaire and its director Danny Boyle were not quite in the same category -- both were trading at around 80 percent on Intrade at the time I issued my forecasts. But still, Slumdog winning those categories was by far the most likely outcome. Of the three awards that were in more genuine doubt, the model got one right (Best Actress) and missed the other two.
I don't know, however, that this is a terrific way to go about evaluating the model's validity. There is uncertainty -- as the model happily acknowledges -- in any sort of human endeavor. One year's worth of results is nowhere near enough to estimate the effects of this uncertainty.
Instead, whenever we make an incorrect prediction, we are probably better off asking questions along these lines:
What, if anything, did the incorrect prediction reveal to us about the model's flaws?
Was the model wrong for the wrong reasons? Or was it wrong for the right reasons?
What, if any, improvements should we make to the model given these results?
In the miss on the Best Supporting Actress category, the model was a bit confused. If I actually had to put money on one of the candidates, it would have been on Penelope Cruz -- not its choice of Taraji P. Henson. The reason why the model got "confused" is because of an unusual circumstance surrounding the Best Supporting Actress award. Namely, three of the four major awards that I tracked in this category (the Golden Globes, the Screen Actors Guild Awards and the Critics' Choice Awards) were won by Kate Winslett, who was not on the ballot in this category at the Oscars. (Instead, the Academy considered her performance in The Reader to be a lead role.) Since the recipients of the non-Oscar awards are the single most important factors in predicting the Oscars, this deprived the model of much of the information that it would ordinarily use to make its forecasts.
However, I'm not sure this is such a good "excuse". The one major award that wasn't won by Winslett -- the BAFTAs -- was instead won by Cruz. What the model should probably have done instead was to throw out the results of the Globes, the SAGs and the Critics in making its forecasts -- to treat them as missing variables. (There is a big difference between 'missing' and 'zero'). This would have placed more emphasis on the BAFTAs -- the only award that gave us useful information about the relative performances of Cruz against the other candidates.
If I had done this, it turns out, the model would have made Cruz the favorite, assigning her about a 60 percent chance of victory. This is something we could and probably should have thought about in advance. Failures, nevertheless, sometimes have a way of focusing the mind and pointing the way forward.
In the Best Actor category, we might also have learned a thing or two last night. Namely, it probably doesn't help to be a huge jackass (like Mickey Rourke) to all of your peers when those peers are responsible for deciding whether you receive a major, life-altering award.
But is this information helpful for model-building? Probably not. (Unless perhaps we had some way to quantify someone's jackassedness: Days spent at the Betty Ford Center?) It's more information that was unique to this particular candidate in this particular year. The way the model accounts for that type of information is to build in uncertainty -- which it did, giving Rourke a roughly 70 percent chance of victory but not a 100 percent one.
Arguably, since Rourke's behavior was a known unknown rather than an unknown unknown, we could have gone a step further by disclaiming that the model's estimate of his chances of victory was probably on the high side. Then again, suppose that Rourke had won. We'd be saying: "see, Hollywood loves a comeback story" and feeling very satisfied with ourselves, perhaps wondering why the program had given him only a 70 percent chance of a win when it "seemed so obvious in retrospect".
Ultimately, this is not about humans versus computers. The computer I used to forecast the Oscars didn't think for itself -- it merely followed a set of instructions that I provided to it. Rather, it is a question of heuristics: when and whether subjective (but flexible) judgments, such as those a film critic might make, are better than objective (but inflexible) rulesets.
The advantage in making a subjective judgment is that you may be able to account for information that is hard to quantify -- for example, Rourke's behavioral problems or the politics of Sean Penn playing a gay icon in a year where Hollywood felt very guilty about the passage of Proposition 8. The disadvantage is that human beings have all sorts of cognitive biases, and it's easy to allow these biases to color one's thinking. I would guess, for instance, that most critics would have trouble decoupling the question of who they thought should win the Oscars -- those performances they liked the best personally -- from who they thought actually would win them.
In the case of something like the Oscars, where the ratio of subjective/qualitative to objective/quantitative information is relatively high, I'm pretty certain that the limitations of hewing to a rule-based approach (like a computer program) outweigh the advantages. But I was pretty certain about that long before last night. And I'm also pretty certain that the gap can be closed with better model-building.
2.23.2009
Some Post-Oscar Thoughts on Forecasting
by Nate Silver @ 9:30 AM...see also forecasting, meta
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84 comments
I guess it would also help to include the Academy into the calculation. Who is in there? What's the "electoral system"?
You got 2 wrong.
I call that damn good.
Not sure I'm there with you on the Best Actor award. Sean Penn is a prick to everyone, and that's his second Academy Award. What makes Mickey Rourke less sympathetic?
If anything, I think the Academy tries to avoid giving Oscars to roles that were "one-and-done." They'd rather not live with the legacy of "Oscar-winner Mickey Rourke" out there for the rest of time.
I assume you've tested this on previous years?
Because it would be interesting to see what your model predicted for 2008 (using the data available prior to 2008!) and similarly for 2007 on down.
Pretty soon, we won't even have to suffer through the Academy Award ceremonies anymore. We can just have the model predict all the winners and go to bed earlier.
Nate -
I'm glad you did this exercise with predicting the Oscars and hope you will continue. Despite the two mistakes I still swear you are the Hari Seldon of our age!
I started thinking about another recent upset at the Oscars. I was wondering if the reason why Sean Penn beat out Mickey Rourke was the same effect that oddly enough caused "Brokeback Mountain" to loose to "Crash" - both excellent movies BTW. If you can remember, "Brokeback" was gobbling up the previous awards like crazy or was pretty much running the table at the Oscars until the award for Best Picture. Some people theorized that everyone assumed that "Brokeback" was going to win so it didn't matter if they voted for "Crash" as a show of support to another good movie.
To me this kind of factor makes predicting the Oscars much harder than predicting the election. In an election one generally has just two candidates to pick from. For the majority of the voters this comes down to a love this candidate and hate that one with the independents being the ones who struggle to make a selection. With the Oscars each race holds 5 candidates and I think it would be safe to say that most Academy members love and/or like each of the 5 candidates in each of the major catagories - if there was a huge section of the Academy that hated a paticular movie just by the fact of how the Academy nominates pictures and actors/actresses in the first place would preclude that movie from appearing on the list of 5. Given the fact that the Academy of Motion Pictures is rather an insular organization, much like a country club of course personalities are going to be in play in a way that in an election they are not. For example I think a good argument can be made that Obama won the election by showing that he can remain calm and collected during the debates. We know that about his personality but generally the majority of Americans have never worked with him on a day to day basis as has his staff. Unlike with the motion picture industry where the people who vote for you have worked with you day in and day out on a picture or - and even though the movie industry is huge it is still rather small - knows of someone who has worked with you on such a close basis. But unlike the world of politics there is minimal name or brand loyalty in that most Academy members are their own 'bosses' or rather contract workers.
Thanks for having a great site and keep up the good work!
Nate, you were nuts to go with anyone other than Cruz for supporting actress.
Thw only two, I guess, shocks of the night were Danny Boyle getting director and Sean Penn beating out Mickey Rourke. For me, Rourke not being rewarded by the REAL Hollywood establishment was a no-brainer. Forget the Prop 8 shit, they were never giving best actor him. Slumdog was gonna clean up, but a film made outside Hollywood getting director went against everything the Academy has stood for since Chariots if Fire.
Damn typos.
Nate: This is more evidence that you need to get back to politics and stay out of pop culture. The minnesota senate contest needs attention. Get to work of the meat and potatoes of the site, political forecasting.
Biggest loser of the night was definately Benjamin Button. Not because it got a shitload of noms yet only came away with a couple of technical awards, but because it was expensive to make and didn't break the top 5 at the box office. For that kind of money you either better clean up at the box office or clean up during awards season.
Mickey Rourke's jackassedness was specific to this specific Oscars, but remember last year, when Eddie Murphy sabotaged his Best Supporting Actor chances by wide-releasing the execrable "Norbit" just as Oscar speculation ramped up?
Not to mention all the devious acts of self-promotion and sabotage that Miramax has pulled over the years: discrediting The Hurricane, for example...and some believe this year's "Indian slum dwellers are pissed at Slumdog's title" meme may have been the work of Weinstein as well...
The point being, somewhat non-quantifiable elements seem to creep into the process as the Oscars approach. However, maybe by grading and utilizing predictions from pundits, this could be corrected for? Your techniques of assigning partisan lean and accuracy to pollsters worked pretty darn well in the election, maybe it could serve your purposes here.
"Arguably, since Rourke's behavior was a known unknown rather than an unknown unknown..."
You sound like Donald Rumsfeld. :o)
Nate,
Without the handicap of using a model, I managed to go 6 for 6 in predictions.
The problem is your data. You're basing the award winner on 'lesser' award ceremonies that are in fact more likely to go for the fan-favourites. This is a mistake, although I'm not sure how to objectively fix it.
Mickey Rourke was the easy choice as Best Actor. He was universally acclaimed when The Wrestler came out, everyone paid homage to him and he was the centre of every review. But Sean Penn turned in a five-star acting performance compared to Rourke's four-star, and that's why he won - because too many people focused on the context and not on the acting. Oscar voters usually go for the best acting, even in less-heralded films - which is why Brad Pitt never had any chance of winning an Oscar for Benjamin Button.
That said, I'm still pissed about Best Actress. Winslet deserved to win, but not for The Reader - instead, for Revolutionary Road (the nomination rules are a travesty). Meryl Streep's performance in Doubt was better that Winslet's in The Reader, but it was just obvious that Winslet would win through the cumulative love for both The Reader and Revolutionary Road.
Predictions for next year: Johnny Depp will win best actor for Public Enemies, Avatar will win technical awards, yet won't be nominated in any of the major categories. And Michael Moore will win for his scathing indictment of American capitalism. If the economy is still in the shitter, Moore's documentary is a lock.
johng- What question should nate be modeling for the MN race? I am not sure what question you want him to use quantitative data and statistics to answer. One question he might address is
"If all absentee ballots (including the 12,000 rejected ones) were counted what would be the vote count? Who would lead and by how much?
There are lots of questions to address on the MN race I just not sure that they are amenable to statistical analyses.
1) When will Franken be seated? But what data would you have him use to address that?
2) Will the judges rule for a special election runn off?
3) Will the Senate Dems push to seat Franken if the three judge panel rules in Franken's Favor? Will the Ritchie or Pawley sign the election certificate if the panel rules in Franken's favor.
Latte- where are you? we need a MN update.
Or Better yet-
Walter Mondale where are you- we need an MN update!
How long would a MN special election take? Would it be a two way run off? If so it might be worth it- I think Franken would win by a large margin and that would put an end to this particular vien of wingnut BS.
I was bartending at a hotel bar where we had the awards on the big screen. I found myself commenting to the guests on the two you missed. "Wow...she wasn't expected to win"...."Wow...he wasn't supposed to win". They looked at me a little odd both times. Unbeknownst to them, I guess in a weird way I was defending your honor.
I remember you stating on Keith's show that the supporting actress was your weakest pick. I suspect you learned something from that pick and won't make the same mistake again.
As far as the "jackass" factor and Micky Rourke. We'll give you a pass on that pick. How does one figure that in? I'm not worried, though. I'm sure next year you will have the "ick" factor calculated correctly.
Keep your chin up, pal! At least you hit the easy ones....haha!
Nate-
Is there possibly something to be said for the "bio pic effect" in the Oscars? I think the Sean Penn win was unsurprising to me because the Academy seems to eat up good portrayals of real people (at least in recent years...I'm not sure how far the trend goes back.)
Anyway, here are some examples.
Best Actor:
Forest Whitaker 07
Philip Seymour Hoffman 06
Jamie Fox 05
Adrian Brody 03
Best Actress:
Marion Cotillard 08
Helen Mirren 07
Reese Witherspoon 06
And like I said, there may be more. I'm not a stats person at all so I don't know if this trend is just superficial or if it might be significant. I suppose you would have to look at other years where a bio role didn't win to see if any were nominated. Anyway, it's something to consider.
Andrew said...
But Sean Penn turned in a five-star acting performance compared to Rourke's four-star
Straight up, there hasn't been a five-star acting performance since Laurence Fishburne in Boyz N the Hood, or perhaps Victoire Thivisol in Ponette.
"Wait 'til next year," as they say....in baseball.
Mathew asks the question -
Not sure I'm there with you on the Best Actor award. Sean Penn is a prick to everyone, and that's his second Academy Award. What makes Mickey Rourke less sympathetic?
Here's your answer - Mathew, we should be so lucky to have a few more "pricks" with Sean Penn's politics. In other words, his politics gives him and always will give him a free pass...forever. And rightly so.
Boy you are on an AMAZING run!!
Everytime I tune on to the TV..it seems you are on it!!
I was very skeptical that you could actually pick these awards in this way, it's really hard to predict Opinion???? Not like you have factual stats like a baseball or even actual polling like an election.
Will see over the next few years???
Now my main BEEF with you is...The White Sox...will finish LAST????
mike Braam
Nate, you are my favorite political prognosticator ever, and I adore you. Your ability to top all the other political sites during the primaries and general election was astounding.
That being said, this is not politics--this is the arts (and yes, I know, Hollywood is also political and is sometimes only vaguely artistic). Regardless of any excuses anyone tries to make for why Rourke did not win, the simple fact is Penn won because he was astonishingly AMAZING in his role. "Once-in-a-lifetime" is an apt adjective to describe the performance. Prop 8 may have had something to with the embrace of the FILM, but not for Penn's performance. Rourke being a dick absolutely figured into his not winning, but by his own admission, Penn is no saint in that regard. I think the fact that Rourke went out of his way to destroy his promising career was more of a factor--artists don't like disrespect for their craft.
Honestly, I was blase about Penn as an actor UNTIL I saw "Milk," and he may never be able to be better than he was as Harvey Milk. Despite what our cynical minds tell us, the Academy DOES embrace talent and cannot ignore hard work.
I was able to predict 22/24 awards(Foreign film and Sound skunked me)not with charts, graphs, or mathematical equations, but by intuition and understanding the mind of the artist (and again, I know sometimes vaguely art, but the practitioners view THEMSELVES that way, and THEY are the ones voting). Watch the movie "The Player" by Robert Altman for a deeper understanding of cinema artist psyche.
I look forward to your next political post, Nate--you are a revolutionary on that front!
One thing you might want to build into your model, at least until the point where it fails: since 2004, either Best Actor or Best Actress (or both) has gone to someone playing a real-life person: Ray Charles, June Carter Cash, Idi Amin, etc. That was part of my reasoning for suspecting that Penn was likely to beat Rourke: the Oscar is big on biopics at the moment.
Unfortunately, there is no way for your computer to crunch numbers around the "Tom Bradley" effect. Now, I happened not to see any of the movies in the Best Supporting Actress category, but I was very sure neither of the Black women that were nominated would win. Neither of them, as far as i can tell via the clips i have seen, played the type of characters the majority of academy members are comfortable voting for with regards to Af-Am actors (training day, monster's ball, jerry macguire and glory)and neither are household names (morgan freeman, denzel washington, halle berry) or playing roles uniquely suited to them that no one else could possibly play (jamie foxx).
granted, there is definitely progress. I am not so much complaining as i am stating an observance (i do realize the subjectivity involved, so i'll refrain from claiming it as fact) and until your computer is able to measure collective racism/prejudices, it will almost always get it wrong where Black actors and the academy are concerned.
Nate,
Your model actually did a decent job even though it only got 4 of the 6 winners. The two it missed it gave the second-highest percentages in their respective categories. Your model had Penelope Cruz with the next highest probability of winning behind Taraji Henson and Sean Penn with the the next highest probability of winning behind Mickey Rourke. It was kind of fun sitting at a bar and essentially being able to narrow it down to two of the nominees.
I'm hoping now that you're going to come up with a model to predict the NCAA basketball tournament.
One more thought on the subject of the Mickey Rourke miss.
I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that the movie was about the sport of wrestling, and that that might have worked against his chances.
Not sure why the Hollywood elite (and the voters) embrace movies that glorify boxing. But I think they drew a line when it came to the subject of wrestling...?
You may want to figure the popularity of a particular sport, but more importantly, who finds the sport popular into your next model. Think about it, those that are big fans of wrestling are not the well educated elite doing the voting...huh? Word to the wise. Any future film about a NASCAR driver...may suffer the same fate that Rourke did this time around. Just sayin'...
I too was able to get 6/6 using the sophisticated model in my head.
I agree that the Academy seems to reward technical excellence - previously it has loved funny accents, accurate portrayals of disabilities etc. and there was a bit of a feeling that 'Mickey Rourke was just being Mickey Rourke'.
I also wonder, as in the case of Taraji P Henson, whether there's a bit of a bias against 'newcomers' -people who haven't been nominated for other awards for other performances. It seems to me that you often have to build up a body of acclaimed roles before you get the reward. I know you've factored in previous noms, but I wonder if there's even more of a bias against people who've never been nominated for anything before and who might just be a slightly embarrassing flash in the pan.
The obvious exception to this is child stars, whom the Academy loves so you'd probably have to adjust the 'no one's ever heard of this person' factor to account for people over 18 only.
And I'm also pretty certain that the gap can be closed with better model-building.
But what about the fact that your model is based on the outcomes of other subjective/qualitative awards? At some point, the data's gotta come from somewhere, and if you can build a quantitative system to analyze the quality of an acting performance, you're a better man than I.
Dude, don't think this way. You shouldn't be in the 'prediction' business... you should be in the calculation of probabilities business. You weren't (necessarily) wrong. 1 out 5 times the 20% shot wins. Banish the P-word from your vocabulary. That way lies only tears.
I can't help but vehemently insist that the posters saying that there was a biopic effect are 100% correct. Were Milk based on a fictitious character, there is no chance Penn could have won. But there is strong precedent for the notion that Oscar voters reward impersonations.
Obviously there were non-quantifiable issues involved, but this seems like an easy correction and fairly objective statistic to incorporate.
Another might be the Oscar success of the director of the movie. Aronofsky has never been nominated for an Oscar or even come close. Van Sant, on the other hand...
Nate, you made a (small) mistake in your reporting:
"Best Supporting Actress award...three of the four major awards that I tracked in this category, were won by Kate Winslett, who was not on the ballot in this category at the Oscars. (Instead, the Academy considered her performance in The Reader to be a lead role.)"
No. Winslett's role in The Reader was always considered a lead role, for the other awards (SAG, GG, etc.) as well. However, she won the SAG's and Golden Globes's Best Supporting Actress for her role in "Revolutionary Road", for which she did NOT receive an Oscar nomination. That is why she was not in competition for the Academy Award Best Supporting Actress Award.
Perhaps there also needs to be an inclusion of early Oscar data. Since the big awards come much later, some of the minor awards might give data that can be used to predict later outcomes.
The fact that Benjamin Button kept winning smaller awards should have informed about it chances of winning best picture, etc...
Also, in retrospect, Hollywood likes to make a statement. The passing of the anti-gay marriage prop, coupled with Penn's political activities might have been important data for predicting the final outcome.
In my opinion the biopic factor is just a good proxy for the 'technical excellence' factor. If someone is doing a great impersonation of a known person then it's very easy to judge whether they're doing a good acting job or not.
Penelope Cruz' and Sean Penn's wins were only shocking to people who don't know anything about Hollywood or the Oscars. There was nothing unpredictable about them at all. The only true upset last night was Foreign Film.
Please don't try that again. I thought it was embarrassing enough that you did it in the first place, but then to spend a full post talking about what went wrong? When you expanded from just being a numbers blog to one with political commentary I loved it. I believe hubris is finally getting to you though, Nate. You've taken it too far. Stick to what you know!
Don't forget the "DaColbert" predictions!
Colbert got it all right this year. He second guessed himself with Milk though -- after choosing Penn -- and went with the Wrestler.
In my book, he still got it 100% right though.
Hmmm... the "DaColbert" method versus Nate Silver... Hmmm.
Nate,
How did you do compared to the Intrade predictions? If your model beat them, you're doing well. If not, there is probably some input that you should get from Intrade. In this early stage I'd look at all the info and decide whether I can learn from a particular system or can already beat it.
I don't believe the current goal should be in predicting the winners with certainty but rather in comparing the various predictive sources and trying to achieve a high rank among them. Nearly every complex model I've seen improves with observation and refinement.
Also, there is some currency in predicting upsets. Simply echoing the list of favorites offers little new information. Predicting when the conventional wisdom is wrong is valuable.
You owe me twenty bucks.
cheer up, Nate, there's always next year. It would seem to me that if you think you should have added a "jerk" factor in assessing Rourke's chances, you'd have to do the same thing with Penn. And I think you'd have been back to square one, because Penn is, as he put it, a "commie homo-lover" -- and isn't too shy about telling people that.
Another issue with this sort of predicting is unlike with presidential votes and sport award winners, only the winners are revealed by the Academy.
If the full vote totals were posted and we saw something like Penn: 37%, Rourke 34%, Jenkins 13%, Langella 7%, Pitt 3% (for instance) you'd be like, "Oh the model came so close." and you could factor that information into the system. Instead you're left with no idea if the model was 1% off, or 50% off.
Nate: As a statistician myself, whose job it is to make "predictions" and then explain why the model got it wrong (when it didn't; if the model says 70% it should be wrong a third of the time after all), I want to commend you on providing the best forum I've seen for explaining the process, taking your lumps from the naysayers who afterward said "I did better without some fancy model, stick to something else", and, most of all, on explaining to the public in plain language the humbling process of questioning the model. The Oscars is a perfect, contained and "simple" example that I enjoyed thinking about. I've learned much from your site and my work (and our profession) is certainly better for it.
Nate, don't be so down on yourself.
Using your original probabilities, assuming their correctness and independence, your probability of correctly predicting all 6 outcomes was 20.8%. The probability of getting 5 of 6 was 42%, and the probability of getting less was thus 37.2%. Even using your own probabilities, you had a good chance of missing two.
I agree that you could have better modeled probabilities on Best Supporting Actress; you'll do better with this model next time. For a first try, I'd say it was pretty good!
Nate, despite my teasing of you in a previous comment, I think your exercise was very interesting and you should attempt to do it in future years. In my opinion, proper modeling of the Academy Awards is going to be tough because many of the factors that determine the winner are not quantifiable, like Micky Rourke's "jerk factor." Other problems will be picking variables that are truly independent of each other. The true test will be if people follow your advice and bet on your picks; will they do better than if they just bet on the favorites predicted by intrade? Your modeling will also be a test of the validity of the efficient market hypothesis. According to the efficient market hypothesis, the market will be a better predictor of who wins the Academy Awards than any model a person can think of. I think you should take the challenge.
Personally, I think people can act irrationally and therefore markets are often not efficient.
No doubt Sean Penn's acting has improved over the years (very few people who are serious about any craft don't improve with experience). That said, Milk and All the King's Men were both better performances, IMHO, than Mystic River. Ironically, I find both of those performances to being to type rather than against type. Penn is an angry, abrasive, political individual who is not in the cultural mainstream, but has a way of couching things to counteract that deficit - very similar to both Willie Stark/Huey Long and Harvey Milk. This, I think is not seen between Penn and Milk versus Rourke and Randy 'The Ram' Robinson. I think this is do to the superficial difference between Penn and Milk in sexual orientation. (I say it is superficial because personality-wise, they are very close type matches).
Additionally, as many made the point last night, including Sean Penn, it is not that Sean Penn is not an asshat to people; it is to whom he is an asshat. Rourke is indiscriminate offender, whereas Penn is only an asshat to people outside of the business.
To those who see this as proof that Nate 'should stick to politics' and believe that this type of behavior is not amenable to modeling, I say you don't understand modeling or behavior. Nate has it right when he says that he simply needs to look at the model. It may even be that the entire model is wrong. It may be that the model would be so complex as to be indistinguishable from that which it attempts to model, but it can be modeled. Also, one should strive to become more numerate in order to understand what the probabilities are actually telling us, namely that even in cases of 99% or higher probabilities, there is still a probability, however remote for a different outcome. What Nate has said is that he doesn't have enough data to analyze whether the model was right for the wrong reasons. There does exist a possibility that the awards the model 'got right' were just as flawed as the awards the model 'got wrong'.
Nate, like you said, all models have limitations. I hope you go ahead and improve the model for next year using what you've learned from this round. I personally love seeing a quantitative approach used for problems that are ordinarily analyzed by human judgment.
Hari Selden is your hero, isn't he Nate?
You should just add extra weighting to "issue" roles. Like roles dealing with the holocaust or roles dealing with civil rights.
Nate, I knew that Sean Penn was gonna win the Oscar when he won the SAG award. Mostly the same crowd voting on each award. For the acting awards, you might want to give more weight to the SAG awards than the others. I know, I know, Winslet lost to Streep for the SAG, but she won the best Supporting Actress award at the SAGs and wasn't nominated at the Oscars, so it was all screwy.
This was a fun exercise of trying to make projections from insufficient data.
What I'd really like to see is a meta-forecast of the depth and length of the current recession based on the many public forecasts that have been published.
Days spent in rehab is not a predictor of jackassedness. There are plenty of jerks who don't use drugs. Also, it seems likely that the people who've spent time at Betty Ford are less jackassish than the people who need to spend time there but haven't.
Finally figured out what algorithm means. Much more fun to watch Vicky Christina Barcelona than to watch the actress win a Best Supporting.
I think if you had a human knowledgable movie fan to babysit the model, they would have easily switched the supporting actress pick to Cruz, and more than likely Penn too.
I think pretty much everybody assumed Cruz the winner, and when Wrestler got no other big nominations, it seems that Rourke's run was done.
Also, like that above poster, that Mickey Rourke "jerk" factor could be real.
Witness Burt Reynolds in Boogie Nights. I think most people thought he was going to win.
Late returns will show the winner was once again Anna Paquin
Hi Nate:
As a few commenters have said, it's not clear that you got anything wrong. Your model just gave probabilities.
Maybe, upon observing outcome i, you should award yourself log(p_i) "points", where p_i is the probability you predicted for outcome i. Then do the same for intrade, or whoever your competition is.
I think this is the right way to go, since it is the unique scoring system which rewards reporting your true beliefs as a forecast.
Nate, your funny habit of being over-precise is a hit with some of your fans, but in this case it has bitten you back. Purely as a matter of maintaining your brand, I believe you need to rethink this.
Speaking as a statistically-minded person, it is a major error to express this kind of model's outputs with such false precision. "Penelope Cruz - 24.6%"? You know very well that the prior data don't allow such a probability to be calculated with 0.1% accuracy. The regressions aren't sufficiently reliable. It would have been better to say "Henson, 1-1 odds; Cruz, 3-1," which would be more honest and less prone to inviting post-Award ridicule.
Close examination of the probabilities suggests that of the top picks, 4 or 5 should have been correct - which is what happened.
Sam Wang
Princeton Election Consortium
Thanks for posting the Intrade comparison earlier. A likelihood ratio test gives a weight of evidence of about 10:1 favoring the Intrade predictions. Sounds like your model could be improved!
But don't listen to Sam Wang - I think I speak for many fans of the site when I say I love the 3 digits of precision. We know there isn't any way to be that sure, but part of the fun of a real prediction is squeezing every last bit of juice from it.
Next year I hope you can predict more categories. I bet you would even have a marginal advantage over Intrade in more obscure categories since non-quantifiable personal details probably play a lesser role in technical awards.
Nate - Next time you want to go out on a limb, like you admittedly did on the Best Supporting Actress miss - Call the choice "Your Best Longshot of the Night". That way it is a win/win for you. If they win, you outdid yourself by picking a longshot. If they lose, you gave yourself an out by calling the pick a longshot.
No need to thank me....
Elio, you're serious, aren't you. Well, I certainly agree that you speak for many fans of this site.
If people really like the appearance of precision, an even more stat-weenie-like move would be to calculate an uncertainty on the probability, e.g. "74.6 +/- 15.9%".
Nate
I made my Oscar picks based not on who I thought would win but on who I thought had done the best work. (I marked a ballot at nytimes.com to record my picks in advance so I couldn’t hedge later.) Of the six major categories I went 4 for 6 also. (My total score was 17 of 24. I am especially proud of picking both writing categories since that is my field.) My “incorrect” picks were Marisa Tomei, who I thought was wonderful in “The Wrester,” and “Milk.” “Slumdog” is a wonderful movie but it quits being an art film and becomes a Hollywood happy ending movie about 40 minutes in, while “Milk” remains serious throughout.
I think this illustrates the difficulty of the task. We are asking ourselves what is the subjective impression of a group of industry insiders of what should be works of art. The results may be more or less predictable but have we in fact learned anything from the prediction.
The biggest upset of the night was probably Sean Penn’s win for best actor, as most prognosticators had Mickey Rourke walking away with the trophy. I voted for Penn because I believed and believe that his performance in “Milk” is historically good. That is, like Brando in “On the Waterfront,” or Steiger in “The Pawnbroker,” people will be talking about it for years to come. It is so good that many viewers do not realize how good it is. Unlike Rourke you do not see Penn acting. He creates Harvey Milk so naturally and completely that you do not realize how skilled he is or how much the success of this production depends on that skill. I was concerned that when Penn did not receive the award his performance would become a “lost” performance, as Steiger’s in “The Pawnbroker” is, and was thrilled when he won.
In your analysis on the other hand you focus on Rourke’s jackassedness as the cause for Penn receiving the award. I think this highlights the difficulty of the task you have set yourself and also confirms that a mathematical objectivity will be necessary if you are to succeed.
Sam:
If people really like the appearance of precision, an even more stat-weenie-like move would be to calculate an uncertainty on the probability, e.g. "74.6 +/- 15.9%".
Actually, they should average over their beliefs, and end with a point estimate for the probability. This is also why there's nothing wrong with giving too much precision for probabilities.
For the acting awards the academy likes performances where the person is acting in a role that isn't just them. Many people remember and like people playing exaggerated forms of themselves, but that doesn't win you an academy award. Playing a character that is not you wins you the award. That's why the biopics and mentally challenged and what not are good roles for winning acting oscars.
Clearly you failed to place the "gay factor" into your calculations for Best Actor. Not that there's anything wrong with it.
Hollywood loves a good Holocaust Yarn as well as stories of gay protagonists. Kate Winslet even stated within the last few years that her best chance of winning an Oscar would be to take on a role in a film about the Holocaust.
Sam-
I am indeed serious, but I wouldn't mind seeing more error bars either. Maybe Nate can only push the nerd factor so high before he starts to scare off readers though :)
However, for these Oscar predictions we only get to compare with a single binomial result which will have a std. dev. larger than probability in most cases. What good does an error bar do us? Penelope Cruz won't win 0.35 Oscars.
Speaking as a statistically minded person, if Nate could calculate an accurate error associated with his predicted probability, he should just integrate over that error to come up with... a more accurate predicted probability. The beauty of a binomial prediction is that the error bar is "built in". If you are writing it out you are doing it wrong.
And to return to your original comment, rounding his predictions to 1 significant figure only makes it harder to score his model after the fact. His way of displaying the data seems more honest than your proposed "fix".
i don't generally give a shit who wins the oscars, but i'm glad rourke didn't win. while penn can be quite the hambone i think he's terrific in "milk" while rourke in "the wrestler" is just playing a variation of his own story.
Nate, I admire the exercise, but you cannot quantify art. It isn't baseball or politics. It's something beyond repetitive action. I've written a response on my site. Would make my day if you checked it out.
www.walkaboutjones.com
To be honest, I work in Hollywood and it was pretty much a given for everyone in town that Kate Winslet was also going to win best Actress. That one was probably more of a lock than Danny Boyle winning Best Director.
Like the others here, Nate, I commend you for your continued work in applying math to real-life predictions and making numbers so much fun.
The thing that makes the Oscars so much harder to predict than elections is that unlike election polling, the pool of voters is almost entirely different, from the SAG awards to the Golden Globes to the Oscars et al. You're not just polling a "favorite", you're polling the favorite of several different and ultimately unique groups who decide based on multiple variables, many of which ultimately have little to do with who's truly and purely the "Best".
So, for example, the Hollywood Foreign Press is notoriously biased toward high-profile names and famous faces, because they're really all about just getting people to show up in the first place. The SAG awards may go to the people with the best acting acumen as judged by other actors, but what about other issues? It's a small community that's currently sharply divided on internal politics, and actors who've publicly come out one way or another may see a dip in votes, and that's just one example. And then with the Oscars, you have added factors such as Kate Winslet's multiple losses adding up to voters favoring her. It's not as easy as "X Golden Globes + Y SAG trophies = Z Oscar" - the confounding variables are, well, much more confounding.
I do have faith that a better model is possible, but I think it's tough to look at it strictly as a +/-numbers outcome based on simple factors like other awards, without adding in the many more political factors that come into play here. You have to find some way to measure the ways that human behavior factor into this more strongly.
With a smaller voter pool than a national election, it's also going to be much more difficult to spot overall trends, I would imagine. But if anybody can do it - Nate can!
So chin up, back at it, and... uh, godspeed.
Rather than just looking at the winners of the other awards, the model should also look at their nominees. In your selection of 4 major awards Taraji P. Henson was only nominated twice whereas Penelope Cruz was nominated by all 4. I would also recommend against completely throwing out the results of the awards won by Kate Winslet. As you frequently point out, winning 1 of 1 awards is much less statistically relevant than winning 4 of 4 even though they have the same 100% winning percentage.
I don't think picking Mickey Rourke over Sean Penn necessarily indicates a problem in the model. This race was expected to be close. But how did the model give Rourke such a large 52% probability advantage when supposedly "the greatest predictor (80 percent of what you need to know) is other awards earned that year". The two should have basically split that 80% leaving only 20% for the more complicated model projections.
Film critics often do make two choices--who should win and who will win. Your model is unlikey to do much better than people who cover this for a living, have a sense of film/Hollywood history and current moods in Hollywood. There's not enough voters to do much statistically, unless you poll, do demographic analysis, etc. which would be, you know, silly.
I had a feeling your model wasn't going to work. I "made book" on the Oscars in middle school. That was pretty easy. Back then, plenty of idiots were always sure Jaws or Star Wars would win.
But my sense of your model is that it failed to account for the differing demographics of these different awarding groups, and the demographics are very important. Sean Penn was a dead lock, to be honest. Not because he is a brilliant actor and apparently gave a brilliant performance. Not because "Hollywood" feels bad about Prop. 8, but because there is a demographically significant gay and gay rights block in the academy. And "movie that makes us feel good about ourselves" ("ourselves" being the Academy, not California citizens, or Americans) always win over movies that don't push that button. There are certain basic truths: Holocaust movies always win. When actors are nominated for screenplay or director, they win. (Why? Actors branch is the largest.) Women who suffer win over women who don't -- death and disease being trump cards. (thus two points to zero in the Winslet/Streep contest -- no others were relevant.) Not being a mathematician, I have no idea how to quantify Hollywood's entrenched misogyny in a formula -- but I bet you can. Those other demographic elements are probably easier.
Regarding the constituents, the Academy tried in the late seventies to purge voters who had not worked in over ten years (ie: Shirley Temple-Black, any remaining Stooges, Ronald Reagan) but were met by opposition and relented. The Academy is far older than comprable lifetime membership rolls and therefore will skew conservative in most areas of taste and political content. Yes, Hollywood has always had a sizable contingent of gays and other leftish cultural influences (and can hardly be called the most radical portion of their respective communities- too much money changing hands to risk all out liberalism), but within these parameters, the relative conservatives will out number the progressives. That is why historical elements (Milk) are favored over subjective psychology (The Wrestler) and suit wearing politicos over white trash butcher smock/spandex trunk wearing simpletons.
Ordinary People beat Raging Bull and Elephant Man back in 1980. Pick any year and you'll see best picture and its satellite awards going to less challenging fare. I know this isn't breaking news but the few thousand Academy voters are relatively easy to profile and this would be an essential element to any predictive model.
I like the "known unknown" vs. "unknown unknown." Very Rumsfeld.
Your defense of your "model's" academy award missteps is so lame. Stick with political predictions and analysis where you're nothing if not a god.
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I think Mickey Rourke losing Best Actor to Sean Penn had a lot more to do with Milk gaining late momentum than with any sort of behavior on Rourke's part.
Also, I know I'm coming very late to this conversation, but I can't resist commenting on a few comments:
First, to Ace - Winslet either won or was nominated for Best Supporting Actress for The Reader by at least five awards bodies, including the Golden Globes and the Screen Actors Guild.
Nazgul35 wrote: "Also, in retrospect, Hollywood likes to make a statement. The passing of the anti-gay marriage prop, coupled with Penn's political activities might have been important data for predicting the final outcome."
I agree 100%.
he who rants wrote: "To be honest, I work in Hollywood and it was pretty much a given for everyone in town that Kate Winslet was also going to win best Actress. That one was probably more of a lock than Danny Boyle winning Best Director."
I don't work in Hollywood, but I agree 100%. Kate Winlset winning Best Actress this year, no matter what movie she was nominated for, was a given. Meryl Streep really had an almost 0% chance of upsetting her.
I also strongly agree with Karen.
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