In Red State, Blue State, we talked about how, in recent years, the Democrats have been winning the rich states, even while richer voters lean Republican.
What happened in 2008? Exit polls were made available immediately--as of election night. The next step is to go to individual-level data, which we recently obtained from the Pew Research Center's pre-election polls.
Here's the income and voting pattern at the national level:
Republicans did better among upper-income voters--except possibly for the over-200,000's. (The highest income category from the Pew surveys is "$150,000+", so we can't do a direct comparison at the top.)
Red and blue states
Now let's look at red, blue, and purple states (which we define, following our book, as those states where George W. Bush won by more than 10 points in both his campaigns, those where he lost by more than 10 points both time, and the states in between):
As in previous elections, income predicts Republican vote more strongly in red than in blue states. (For this and following graphs, I'm switching the x-axis from numerical incomes to income categories.)
Or, to put it another way, the red-state/blue-state divide is happening among the rich (actually, the upper middle class, since surveys don't tell us much about the truly rich) more than the poor.
The next step is to look at the states one by one. First, I'll compress each state to a single number, defined as the difference between McCain's vote share among Americans with incomes over $75,000, minus his vote share among those with incomes below $40,000. (I think these represent family incomes, and I choose these particular cutpoints so as to get approximately a third of survey respondents in each category.)
Here are the raw data, for stability restricting ourselves to the 38 states for which the sample size was at least 200 in the Pew surveys:
As before, the difference between rich and poor is largest within poorer, more Republican states. (Patterns from exit polls are similar but not identical; for these purposes, I prefer the Pew polls because they were less of a rush job and had more time to try to get a representative sample.)
Whites and blacks
But . . . is this all simply explained by race? In poor states such as Mississippi, low-income voters are likely to be African-American, and so the rich-poor divide is also a white-black divide. In rich states such as Connecticut, not so much.
We can check easily by restricting ourselves to the 76% of survey respondents who declare themselves white (and not Hispanic):
Individual states have moved--see Misssippi--but the overall pattern remains.
What's the matter with Connecticut?
The dramatic graph that got us started was the "superplot" of voting vs. income in the poorest state (Mississsippi), a middle-income state (Ohio), and the richest state (Connecticut). We can estimate the pattern of income and voting within each of these states using multilevel modeling, and here is the result:
(You don't want to know the effort that went into making this graph. I started by setting up a model for vote given state and income, then I shifted each state to correct for differences between the poll-based estimate and the actual election outcome in each state.)
Summary--so far
I was all prepared to find big changes since 2004--but the detailed analysis of income and voting appears to show that the differences between rich and poor in different states are about the same as before. Obama's victory represented a national partisan swing rather than a redrawing of the electoral map.
Here are the time trends.

56 comments
Great post . . . er Andrew!
Welcome to 538.com Great first thread. You are going to teach us a lot. (Just like Nate and Sean.)
Welcome, Andrew!
Hazing starts tomorrow at 10am eastern. Please bring two mice, some whipped cream, and a lasso. Pete Kent will meet you in the park near the fountain.
Do these income levels reflect cost of living in the various states? I would think they should be standardized. I noticed some of the more expensive states to live in had higher income levels associated with them.
Bugboy
Wow, this is mind-expanding stuff. So, this is statistical verification that 2008 wasn't a realigning election? It'd be interesting to see what the stats are for confirmed realigning elections like 1932 and 1980.
Pleased to meet you, Andrew!
___
Um, guys, my word verification is "sperm." Seriously?
I am disappointed that the pimply faced 15 year old kid who lives in Mommy and Daddy's basement, and who cleverly calls himself Jack-Be-Simple, hasn;t disgraced himself here yet with some inanity. And even PeteKent and GROG seem to be afraid to show how stoopid they are, too.
Oh, I know why Connecticut is like that. It's because of that silent C in the middle of the state's name. Throws everybody off, even the voters.
Good to see you here Dr. Gelman! I am a close follower on your other (more statistical) blog. Much love!
There seems to be a significant 'eat the rich' mentality in America right now -- capping pay, no CEOs in the cabinet, etc. etc.
There also seems to be much crying (from Repubs) that Obama is all into class warfare.
Um, rich people? You've been winning the war for a long time.
Great to have you here, Andrew! An amazing post. What a score for Nate, adding another brilliant voice to fivethirtyeight. This site keeps getting better and better.
@Mark
What he's saying is that the voting differences between rich and poor, etc are the same, but the difference is that (some) states that were previously red are now purple and some that were purple are now blue. The partisan identity of the country is changing, but the rich are still more likely to vote Republican in red states and less likely in blue states, etc. Someone else correct me if I am wrong.
@Greg Foster
Thanks for the quick plain English recap for us non-statisticians in the group.
Welcome Andrew! Your post is quite interesting, particularly since I now get it, lol.
In Red States, 'economics' finally trumps 'values' among the poor... which is called survival.
In Blue States, 'values' finally trumps 'economics' among the rich... which is called enlightenment.
I wonder how the trend would look if you looked at people whose income increased or decreased significantly (for whatever reason) from 2004 to 2008.
In other words, were people who WERE rich in 2004, but for some reason were not in 2008 as likely to vote Repub or did they shift to Dem and vice versa.
It looks like it might actually be a distinction between urban and rural. Population density seems to correlate pretty strongly with income -- in cities, housing costs more because there is less land per person => housing costs are higher => incomes have to be higher.
Population density also appeared to correlate strongly with Obama voting; see
http://maps.webfoot.com/demos/eletion2008/
and play with the population density overlay.
Obama votes correlate STRONGLY with Starbucks locations, which also correlates strongly with urbanity. (I was able to find Starbucks locations, but I was not able to get permission redistribute that information, so I couldn't draw the dots on the map.)
I'm travelling and away from my data right now, but I'll try to make some maps of pop density vs. Obama voting margin in the next few days if 538 doesn't do that.
nicely done. Looks like you might give Nate a run for his money.
Hey, this information was pretty interesting, but those graphs you created were really inelegant and hard to follow. I mean, the most important part is that they're hard to follow. I probably sound like an asshole, but I feel like Nate's posts are the most interesting ones to read. Sean's photos from the election were nice, but now he just writes dumb shit like hypothetical conversations with Barack Obama and his emotional reaction to Judd Gregg withdrawing. This blog should be all Nate Silver.
Thanks for a fascinating post.
Andrew - great stuff! Thanks for coming aboard and welcome.
Welcome to Fivethirtyeight, Dr. Gelman, where no effort at explanation goes uncritiqued (one of the reasons so many of us like to come here).
Thanks for an interesting piece of the puzzle. It also seems from your data that the poor and middle classes in red states vote more consistently with their economic self interest than is sometimes assumed (ie, a legion of Joe the Plumber types voting for McCain/Palin even though they'd do better under Democratic policies).
Great post, Andrew! You're a great addition to the site!
@Andrew -- It seems to me a very different interpretation of these results is plausible: since the Red States are mainly Poor States, and Blue State are mainly Rich States, what you're detecting is two things.
First, in poor states (relatively speaking), social class matters more to vote (party) preferences than in rich states. Second, socio-economic elites, though perhaps a smaller share of total population in poor states act with greater cohesiveness to protect their interests.
Since you're measuring vote preference among actual voters (from exit polls), I would conjecture that you could learn something about "class cohesion" (as a function of class polarization) by getting reliable turnout data by SES. For example, I would conjecture in support of my second hypothesis above that turnout among richer folks is higher in poorer states than in richer states.
In sum, you could initially stratify the states by how rich they are (or by median educational achievement), not by whether they're red, purple, or blue. Then ask, how would I expect the relatively high SES to vote in these different contexts? Is there likely greater class polarization in partisan preference (and partisan vote division) in poor states than in rich ones?
@Andrew: added suggestion. Although it's not fashionable in the U.S. any more to talk about class voting (though certainly in 2008 this terminology did come more into the discourse in the Dem primary and in the general election because of the "Apalachian" blue collar voters), it may be relevant to return to some of the class/ses terminology and to render our interpretations of voting patterns in these terms. Your analysis certainly takes us in that direction, but I'm suggesting a different way to frame the differences between states -- stratifying them by an independent variable (class, SES) rather than a dependent one (partisan preference). That old Robert Alford index of "class voting" (POQ 1962) might be relevant here.
Mark said
Wow, this is mind-expanding stuff. So, this is statistical verification that 2008 wasn't a realigning election? It'd be interesting to see what the stats are for confirmed realigning elections like 1932 and 1980.
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My first reading of Andrew's summary agrees with Greg F's post, that essentially it was a realigning election, in that the reasons people changed there vote were to do with partisan feelings not more fundamental shifts in people's finances. Though on re-reading it I see your confusion.
What I would say as a possible further clarification and excuse me Andrew if I haven't got this quite right) is that this isn't yet a deep shift, and might swing back given the right circumstances. Actually I believe that is largely true of most first times a president is elected. The seismic shifts tend to happen in a reelection year. [But even then they can be more ephemeral than they appear].
Take Reagan's elections. Relatively small election victory in 1980, at least in the popular vote leading to historically large victory. Nixon's victories followed the same path, and I guess you could make a case that the JFK/LBJ elections show a similar pattern, although obviously other facors may have lead to LBJs landslide.
Interestingly though, only Reagan's landslide was followed 4 years later with the President's party winning the next election.
Great analysis, BUT (!!!)
You should re-do this by LEVEL OF EDUCATION, rather than income.
A look at the map of counties which voted MORE Democratic since 2004, shows that almost all voted more Democratic EXCEPT the "ignorance belt" down through the Appalachians, through Tenn., into Arkansas, and ending in Northeast Texas.
This is the IGNORANCE BELT, also called the BIBLE BELT.
There's your real factor: Education.
I see the graphs a little differently. In red/purple states, voting republican tracks linearly with income, which makes sense as republicans are the party of wealth. The irregularity is in the blue states, where the slope goes down a little for the middle class and goes flat above ~$150k, which is about where you have enough money where everyday expenses are not a big concern.
There is no overlap between income groups between red, purple and blue. The curves are shifted up uniformily for all income levels.
It is interesting that the slope of repub voting/income is the same for red states, purple states, and the lower income levels of blue states. Only the middle income and upper income levels of blue states change their voting pattern with income.
The discussion of this post should be why do urbanites care less about wealth as their income increases, not dissecting the red states, which appear to be acting rationally?
My guess is that urbanites have a lot more contact with people outside of their income bracket, hence more empathy once they reach an income level that supplies them all of their needs. Rural and suburban dwellers are more segregated by income; it is easier to demonize the people you really don’t know. This is a common human reaction, Obama got killed in rural areas with low black populations.
Thank you for retiring that ugly, ugly picture of an ugly, ugly Reagan...
This post doesn't go far enough in explaining its conclusions. Ok, we know that wealthy people in the South vote republican while wealthy urbanites on the West Coast vote democratic. Duh. But we need some context. Is it age, education, amount of foreign travel that is making the difference? Obviously a 30 year old Google wiz kid is going to hold more progressive views than an Oklahoma rancher. We need to dig deeper. Numbers alone don't paint the picture -- they only stencil the outline. My suggestion to this site is to add some, dare I say, non-statistical context. Tell me about the religious culture in Oklahoma, or the history of a racial voting-divide between white and black voters. In other words, you're going to have to add a non-stat-head to the lineup.
This is what is missing with this site. For example, the 50 state series was a great idea in theory, but didn't really tell you anything that surprising. I don't want to read about the percentage of burger kings to espresso stands; I want to hear about the state's less-quantifiable social, religious, and cultural currents, with some numbers thrown in for a framework. Numbers are incomplete without context, and I'm sorry to all the "hard" scientists out there, but there's some things that numbers can't tell you.
Welcome Andrew!
Im fairly well off, better than most people, but I still wouldnt be caught dead voting Republican, I dont care how many tax cuts you offer me, your not getting my vote.
An interesting analysis of Obama's popularity: It seems he is less popular than Carter but more so than Reagan and as pupular as Dubya at this point in his term.
Obama started out with 68 percent job approval, one of the highest initial approval ratings for a new president since Gallup started taking the measurement under newly-elected Dwight Eisenhower in 1953.
Since then, Obama's approval rating has dropped to 63 percent, with 24 percent disapproving and 13 percent having no opinion. The poll was taken Feb. 19-21, among 1,614 adults, with a 3-point error margin.
According to Gallup, this is a "typical" rating for a president at this point, better than Ronald Reagan's 55 percent but not as high as Jimmy Carter's 71 percent. Reagan's low approval rating and Carter's high approval rating at this stage make one wonder about the importance of what a high-rated start really means. So, it's uncertain what being in the middle means. Obama's 63 percent is exactly where President George H.W. Bush was at this stage in 1989. It's also 4 points better than Bill Clinton's was in 1993, and just 1 point better than George W. Bush in 2001.
There's a long way to 2012 . . . .
Correlation does not imply causation, but maybe experiments could identify potential causation -- as some commenters have questioned.
Here are some possibilities. I'll abbreviate as "RRR" the phrase "red state rich vote more Republican."
1) Is RRR due to there being more poor people? Perhaps graphing against median incomes might help reveal this, or perhaps a study that shows whether the rich-->Republican curve changes over time with changing median income might help.
2)Is RRR due to (lack of) education? Perhaps referencing against statistics on education level (relative to income, if that data is available) would help clear this up.
3)Is RRR due to religion? Asking "Christian, Jew or Moslem" probably wouldn't be helpful -- too much variance within each group. I once saw statistics (on approval of torture actually) that were related to number of times one attended a worship service per week.
I'm sure that there are lots of other examples. I think it would be quite amusing to learn (for example) that the better off the poor are, the more Democratic the rich vote. That would mean that helping the poor in red states is not just the right thing for Democrats to do, but also the smart thing. (Smart or dumb politically, it's still the right thing to do.)
Nice try petekent,
Obama is taking over in an economic disaster, only Reagan was in a similar situation, but really you have to go back to FDR. Compare Obama's 63 to Reagan's 55.
False equivalence, another of the mainstays in the trolletariat arsenal.
As has been pointed out on several "liberal" blogs, and I am assuming you have read them, Obama's loss in approval rating is strictly in the repub camp, which doesn't really count; but we can all pretend it does, just to make you feel wanted.
By the way, what is your point?
Oh, I get it, Obama really isn't that popular and the Cheney/Bush agenda of the last 8 years is what America really wants, if you can just stomach giving it another chance.
Riiiiiiight.
It is a pleasure to see you debuting here, Dr. Gelman!
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@Juris: It does indeed appear as if there was a higher reward for voting republican in the red states.
So may I proudly present to you my rather ingenuous theory:
I am a stranger to the complex US tax system, but travelling the US I learned that red states tend to have much lower tax revenue per capita and I was told that some have even abandoned the state income tax at all - in many ways, the economic and fiscal order in some Red States reminded me of the order in second world countries such as Russia, Chile, Mexico or early 1990s Brazil & Argentina.
Therefore the conclusion:
The more any particular US state resembles a second world country, the more likely its population will vote accordingly (i.e. the elite will vote for the Manchesterist party, the rest will vote for the populist party).
Because the GOP today is both more manchesterist and populist than the Democratic party, Red States will inevitably be Red States until the military seizes political power.
Welcome to 538, Andrew. One thing that occurred to me when looking at your rich-poor graphs is that the division of rich and poor subsets was based on fixed criteria ($75k and $40k, respectively) while you were graphing against a variable axis of average income. Someone who makes $75k is far richer in a state where the median is $20k than in one where the median is $35k. I wonder if the results would change any if you based your delineations on some percentage of the state average income (rich >= 250% of average income, e.g.).
Thanks.
So final analysis, an equal amount of rich middle income and poor form red purple and blue states shifted from the R column to the D column.
Thats a very broad statement. So you are saying turnout didn't play any part at all. There were equal shifts across all economic levels in red purple and blue states
So basically, all the microtargeting by Obama was wasted. I find that hard to believe.
Congratulations on a pretty phenomenal entrance. I can see why Nate was so eager to let us know you're here! Thanks for giving us all a pretty enthralling lesson there, Professor. I'm looking forward to more posts.
Oh, so now I get it -- GOP stands for Greed Old Party. That explains alot -- especially why their political strategy is focused on appealing to folks who put Personal Greed above all else.
Welcome Andrew
I would also be interested in seeing education level and voting trends compared. Unless 2008 was unusual, the GOP vote is usually better educated. This seems to be news to those of you committed to self-congratulation and religious bigotry.
Question:
In general, is income less correlated with education in poorer states?
I ask because the Republican strategy for the past few cycles seems to have been to market themselves as the everyman, bumbling fools, while decrying any and all educated "fancy-talk" as elitist. Which seems self defeating if their best path to victory to try to get the rich in swing states to vote for them in larger numbers.
Does this play well amongst their wealthy-in-poor-states base, or have they just misjudged and think that higher support in poor states means higher support amongst the poor?
@ttorack- You're description sounds good , but people might be misled by taking this too literally: "The discussion of this post should be why do urbanites care less about wealth as their income increases, not dissecting the red states, which appear to be acting rationally?"
That makes sense only if you define 'rational' as 'short term maximization of nominal income' or perhaps as 'maximization of income relative to the median', since except for the top percentile incomes have grown faster under Democratic administrations. If be 'rational' you mean something about maximizing personal well-being, as objectively measured, or maximizing social capital, etc., then almost all R votes are irrational.
Perhaps the big difference is that in culturally bleak regions a lot of rich people don't see any way to be happier other than to amass more of the sorts of material things which are useful smaller amounts.
Welcome Andrew,
Insightful post. Useful tool for those who are already itching and getting ready for midterm elections.
A very nice first post. Great job!
Welcome, Andrew, and thanks for the cool charts. They are very interesting, but I'm not sure I'm seeing that any deep conclusions can be drawn from them. Rich people in Republican states are more likely to vote Republican, sure, but apparently from the charts, so are poor people in these states. The gap in Republican voting between rich and poor is wider in these states, but these states are also poorer on the average so perhaps there are fewer rich people. Does your definition of rich vs poor change from state to state so as to capture the top/bottom 1/3 of voters by income in each state? Or could we be looking at a smaller group of "elites" with more exclusive big-business ties in these states vs wealthier states where "regular people" regularly make $75K a year? These questions make it hard for me to conclude that I've learned anything definitive from looking at this data.
Hope this is helpful.
By analyzing the data in a series of two variables at a time, it is hard to see the interaction effects. The world is not black and white and it is also not bivariate.
I wonder if the effects would be clearer using one of the tools like CHAID?
andrew said...
"We need to dig deeper. Numbers alone don't paint the picture -- they only stencil the outline. My suggestion to this site is to add some, dare I say, non-statistical context.... In other words, you're going to have to add a non-stat-head to the lineup..."
Nate said...
"In the case of something like [x]... where the ratio of subjective/qualitative to objective/quantitative information is relatively high, I'm pretty certain that the limitations of hewing to a rule-based approach (like a computer program) outweigh the advantages... I'm also pretty certain that the gap can be closed with better model-building..."
If one is (like andrew) interested in looking at context and subjective/qualitative information in order to (like Nate) build better models, it seems to me that several comments are already on the right track:
ttorack said...
"The discussion of this post should be why do urbanites care less about wealth as their income increases... My guess is that urbanites have a lot more contact with people outside of their income bracket, hence more empathy once they reach an income level that supplies them all of their needs..."
Michael (mbw) said...
"If... then almost all R votes are irrational... Perhaps the big difference is that in culturally bleak regions a lot of rich people don't see any way to be happier other than to amass more of the sorts of material things which are useful smaller amounts."
Aranfell said...
"Is RRR due to (lack of) education? Perhaps referencing against statistics on education level (relative to income, if that data is available) would help clear this up."
To simplify, the data merely says the following:
1. For individuals, democraticity is strongly correlated with income.
2. For states, the correlation is attenuated, toward the high end of the income spectrum, for the most democratic states, which also tend to be the wealthier states.
This only make us wonder what other factors affect state-by-state voting patterns.
I assert that we need to look at other degrees of geographical granularity. I think you could do state-by-state clustering to identify regions of the country that vote differently and this would "explain" much of the discrepancy.
But we might also want to go down to the level of counties (or congressional districts) and do some analysis.
My own conjecture is that there are cultural differences that can be mapped, if not well understood, that play the greatest role.
@xaffeine: I agree with your conclusion -- and recommendation that the analysis drill down at least one more layer, perhaps congressional district?
But I think you're also endorsing an interpretation by Gelman that borders on tautology (that republicanness predicts republicanness).
Also, because there is a very high overlap between wealth of a state's population and it's aggregate republicanness (Red, Purple, Blue), because of collinearity it is probably questionable to assume that the state's republicanness -- rather than its wealth -- is the appropriate explanatory factor in the analysis.
In a 2-level hierarchical model it would make sense to use "state wealth (median family income)" as a level 2 predictor, along with "individual family income" as a level 1 predictor. But I think it's questionable (tautological) -- even implicitly -- to use "republicanness" as an explanatory factor even at level 2, given that the dependent variable of interest is "probability of voting Republican" at level 1 (the individual respondent level).
Once the context is specified as wealth or median family income, then what Gelman does is reasonable. And further, it makes sense to explore the explanatory contributions of other contextual (level 2) variables (such as % African American, % urban) and other individual (level 1) variables (such as race of the voter, urban vs. rural residence).
Thank you, Professor Gelman! Still, if Red states are poorer than Blue states, and voting patterns among the poor do not differ as greatly voting patterns among the rich between Red and blue states, shouldn't we have seen some more red states flip for Obama when the economy is the most prevalent issue. He did win some, but not as many as Clinton in 1994 or 1996. Racism may have stunted states from voting Blue this year, regardless of their economic condition. Perhaps if Obama proves himself by 2012 we'll see more states vote Blue. Thank you for the post. Solidifies voting axioms among the rich according to ideology.
@Juris: thanks for the acknowledgment; also I appreciate your higher knowledge of statistical methods.
I think you are saying that Andrew erred by trying to use "republicanness" of a state to predict the republicanness of its voters. I agree with you, leaving us wondering what the real underlying factors are.
I wonder what we could learn by doing a factor analysis, going district-by-district, using variables such as the following to try to predict voting:
1. average (or median) income
2. population density ("urbanness")
3. region of country
4. state
5. race (%non-white, etc.)
6. geographic latitude (just to see)
7. geographic longitude (why not?)
8. Some measure of agricultural importance
9. distance to nearest ocean
10. average age
11. distance to nearest state capital
x. (more that I havent thought of)
My hypothesis is that "state" would not matter much in predicting the behavior of a district. On the other hand, you should of course be able to predict a state given enough knowledge about its distrcts.
Put more simply, I don't expect to be able to understand the blueness of a state unless I know the blueness of its districts. Unless that state is in the deep south!
I am the only one it's too much work to get half through this? Maybe get Nate to translate the numbers and pictures into English, please. Shouldn't assume the conclusions are apparent. JMHO. Thanks,
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