2.26.2009

BREAKING: Press Corps Incredulous That Obama Budget Reflects Campaign Promises

It felt like a primal whine from rich reporters. Hasn't Barack Obama considered that maybe John McCain's tax policy is the right one? Does Obama not realize that the best way to be a Democrat is preserve conservative Republican tax policy?

Why would Obama raise taxes on people making over $250,000 beginning in two years? If you tamper with trickle-down, the dramatic shift of income toward the wealthy that was the hallmark of George W. Bush's tax policy, don't you know it'll be disaster? It'll be "class warfare!" (The first questioner: Are you worried that the "class warfare" argument could sink the budget?)

In a remarkable scene, Gibbs patiently and repeatedly explained that, no really, Obama actually won the election, that he'd explained exactly what he was going to do during the campaign, the American people understood and voted on it, and now he's doing it. During the campaign, Obama had pledged to cut taxes for 95% of American workers and end the catastrophic non-workingness of George Bush's trickle-down tax policy. Now, among some questioners, there seems to be confusion and alarm that Obama intends to implement that policy.

I actually sort of remember this coming up during the campaign. Those making more than $250,000 will be asked to give a little back, give up the Bush income tax cuts and go back to the marginal tax rates during the Clinton years when the economy was strong and the rising tide lifted all boats.

There were many questions that seemed quizzical about Obama's budget proposal following in line with his campaign rhetoric, but this exchange between Gibbs and CBS' Chip Reid is illustrative:

Reid: On jobs, which is the big complaint up on Capitol Hill right now from Republicans, that this plan is a job-killer. I mean, the $787 billion plan was all about jobs, more than anything else. And now you have a plan in place that -- how can you possibly tax people making people over $250,000 something like $667 billion over the next ten years and not have a downward effect on jobs?

Gibbs: Well, Chip, how did it work in 1994 and 1995 and 1996 and 1997?

Reid: Well, I guess the argument would be, imagine if they didn't have those taxes... how much better it would have been.

Gibbs: Well, isn't it interesting that there's always some little slip? ... There isn't a member of Congress, if they were to file a single-taxpayer form, who makes above $200,000 a year.

Jake Tapper: There are a lot of millionaires up there.

Gibbs: Well, that's true, but not on their income. I mean, I think it's interesting as people listen to those complaining about some aspects of the budget, I think it's just interesting to note. I think the President was pretty clear on Tuesday. We are talking about people who earn in excess of a quarter of a million dollars a year.

Reid: And a huge percentage of those people are small business owners.

Gibbs: Some of them are, sure. Some of them are big business owners. Some of them are home run hitters in Major League Baseball. Some of them run kickoffs back for a living. Some of them are the President of the United States.

Q (off mike): -- create jobs?

Gibbs: Certainly some of them, that's what their job is. But I would reject this overall premise that when we're asking for tax fairness from the American people, that this is going to kill jobs. I guess if I follow the logic of the Republicans on Capitol Hill, how do you explain last month's unemployment figures? (Pause.) Under current tax rates? 550,000 jobs.

Reid: (Long pause) It's a unique moment.

Gibbs: (Laughs heartily) Apparently, it always is.... The president ran specifically on the promises that are contained in what he believes is a blueprint and a vision for our future. And that's what the the American people, that's the result they rendered in November.

The Washington Post online afternoon headline blared, "Obama Budget Would Raise Taxes on Wealthy." As a seeming afterthought, the article notes, "At the same time, a refundable income tax credit for 95 percent of American workers would be made permanent under the budget proposal."

The sour mood of the elite press corps was apparent from the first question, by the Associated Press' Jennifer Loven. Noting Obama's quote from earlier today, “There are times when you can afford to redecorate your house and there are times when you have to focus on rebuilding its foundation,” Loven asked whether it was appropriate that the Obamas conduct any re-decorations in the White House as they settle in.

A visibly surprised Gibbs noted that there hadn't been seven and ten year old girls in the house in the previous administration. Then came Loven's "class warfare" question. Apparently, returning to Clinton marginal tax rates two years from now should put the White House on the defensive over "class warfare."

Here was an actual question the Wall Street Journal asked regarding health care:

"As an opening White House position, does President Obama still start with the plan he campaigned on?"

Another exchange, at the end of the briefing:
Question: Critics of the budget blueprint that has been put out today charge that this is a form of wealth redistribution. Even the New York Times in its front page story, fourth paragraph, talks about the idea of wealth redistribution. How do you respond to that?

Gibbs: The same way I did to the other questions: that the president campaigned on explicitly promising that he would cut taxes for 95% of working Americans if he was elected president. We did that in the reinvestment and recovery plan, and those tax cuts are also contained within this budget. The president also said that for families that make more than a quarter of a million dollars, $250,000, are likely to see their tax rates revert back to the way they were for most of the 90s. That's also in this budget. The President believes we have a plan that will lead to long term economic growth, sustained long term economic growth, while making those important investments. That's what this budget blueprint does, that's what he campaigned on, instituting fairness -- more fairness in our system, and that's what he's done.

Indeed, it's right there on Obama's website still:

"Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s."

Wealth redistribution! Class warfare! This was what John McCain's campaign was chanting throughout the home stretch of the campaign, and then there was a referendum on it. As it turned out, Americans rejected the argument as alarmist, that tax cuts for 95% and rolling back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest to Clinton levels wasn't all that bad an idea.

As one reporter observed after the briefing, "Did you notice all the questions about taxes came from reporters making over $250,000 a year, especially the TV guys?"

If the White House learned from the stimulus debate that it needed to go on the road and have a cohesive, aggressive messaging strategy to push back on criticism, those lessons will have to be applied immediately. Not just to push back on Republicans, but for a significant percentage of the incredulous media.

My instinct says Gibbs was taken a little by surprise at the force and repetition on the questions. Frankly, the White House ought to put out a comprehensive list of the countless explicit statements made by candidate Obama, from stump speeches and debates, to town halls and interviews, listing exactly what and when Obama said about changes to Republican tax policy he intended to make if elected. They ought to count the number of times Obama spoke on the tax issue and drum that number home.

That number, whatever it is, ought to be on the lips of Obama, Gibbs, and every single surrogate. It's certainly well over 100. Obama is very popular; Congressional Republicans are not. Using that number to confront what will surely be strong Republican and some media opposition to the premise that the election was about something reframes the debate as "critics vs. the mandate."

140 comments

M. Joseph Goodfriend said...

Bush cut taxes for millionaires in 2001. Did revenues rise? No they plummeted, about 20% over the next three years. In inflation adjusted dollars, federal revenues aren't any higher today than they were in 2001.

Clinton raised taxes, and revenues skyrocketed. From the biggest deficit ever to a balanced budget in less than 8 years.

SUPPLY SIDE DOESN'T WORK.

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

Imagine that!

The candidate I voted for is attempting to enact the policies he stated during the campaign. He won in a epic change election. People PARTIED when he won.

Of course, the supposedly liberal media are having fits. Since the highest paid reporters and the corporations they work for MIGHT HAVE TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE instead of getting tax cuts during a war.

Alex S. said...

I would really, really like to know the causal relationship of tax rates on the private income of wealthy people and the amount of jobs they make.

PlatoX32X said...

"As one reporter observed after the briefing, "Did you notice all the questions about taxes came from reporters making over $250,000 a year, especially the TV guys?""

Exactly what I was thinking. It's disgusting that these guys, members of that upper portion (and surely much less than 5% of the country makes over $250,000?), asking exclusively about their raised taxes rather than the lower taxes for 95% of the country. Gibbs seemed pretty punchy here -- he should actually call them out explicitly on this.

DanO said...

Damn liberal media.

This reminds me of the SNL skit during the 1991 Gulf War when Chris Farley as General Schwarzkopf gave a press briefing and repeatedly told the "reporters" what he could and couldn't talk about...and the clueless press kept obliviously asking about the same forbidden topics over and over.

The problem is that was a TV show and this is, um, real life.

Mike in Maryland said...

"As one reporter observed after the briefing, "Did you notice all the questions about taxes came from reporters making over $250,000 a year, especially the TV guys?"

Sean,

Can you suggest to Gibbs or someone in the White Office Press Secretary office that yesterday's newser was the PERFECT time for Gibbs, when someone is asking questions about taxing those of more than $250,000 (actually a slight increase in the marginal rate), that he should ask one question before answering their question? And that question should be "First, do you make more or less than $250,000 per year?"

Then, if they say "No", Gibbs should ask "Then why are you asking that question?"

If they say "Yes", Gibbs should ask them if they "will go to the poor house if they have to pay a few hundred dollars more per year in taxes?"

Alex S. said...
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Alex S. said...

By the way, if anyone mentions "class-warfare" again just because lower incomes are actually going to profit this time, just show them some basic data that proves that rich people have benefited much more from the Reagan-Bush era than middle and low incomes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

Statler N Waldorf said...
This post has been removed by the author.
tjoconn said...

"Bush cut taxes for millionaires in 2001. Did revenues rise? No they plummeted, about 20% over the next three years. In inflation adjusted dollars, federal revenues aren't any higher today than they were in 2001.

Clinton raised taxes, and revenues skyrocketed. From the biggest deficit ever to a balanced budget in less than 8 years.

SUPPLY SIDE DOESN'T WORK."


You cant possibly draw a decisive conclusion from that. The reason the Clinton years saw such an economic boom was from the internet boom. To say that raising taxes on the wealthy created the dot com boom would be incredibly barbaric.

Same thing for Bush. Did the housing market collapse because he lowered the taxes on the rich? If you thing so, go run in traffic. The reason the housing market collapsed is because Clinton passed initiatives making it too easy for poor people to buy houses they could not afford.

Look I don't like Bush at all and I'll take Obama over him any day of the week but on the issue of taxation Obama and his supporters are following ignorant facts. Just because the economy sucks when someone is president, doesnt necessarily mean that the president has poor economic policy. There are many more variables at play here.

newview said...

It's all so very simple. It has nothing to do with reporters' incomes. OMG! An elected official, other than an extremely naive freshman representative, actually, seriously, following through on a policy stated during a campaign? "...I'm shocked! SHOCKED!" (with apologies to M. Renault)

Jeremy said...

It's times like this I wish I was someone's press secretary. My response to Chip Reid probably would have been, "What? Is that a serious question? Did you not follow the campaign? Get the hell out. Seriously. Get out. Quit wasting my time. I could be home with my family."

Lupercal said...

i am not gonna join the sappiness orgy. I think most people are concerned about the deficit. Obama is the visionary technocrat. I think it was assumed that he was gonna juice the system, make deep cuts in certain programs (even those we dems support) in order to generate the funds for the much needed investments on Alternative Energy Investments, Healthcare Reform and Education Reform. I was ready to make some sacrifices (well, minimal). Some short terms loss for long term wellbeing. I was hoping for some sort of restructuring of some of the largely inefficient programs we have while we make the simultaneous investments. I expect it to be a forceful return to our rightful place as the budget conscious bunch.
.
But somehow i feel like he's caving in to pelosi. (she's lovely by the way.) But she's the de facto leader of the liberal branch of our party, and we need her. I just hoped obama would use some of his approval to make sure he doesn't have just one term, and to make sure that the big spender shtick doesn't stick to him.

Karissa said...

I wish Gibbs would have pointed out that the redistribution of wealth for the last 30 odd years has been bottom to top...

Nicholas Warino said...

"The reason the housing market collapsed is because Clinton passed initiatives making it too easy for poor people to buy houses they could not afford."

No.

-----
starvingpundits.com

Lupercal said...

to be sure, i strongly support returning to the tax rates of the nineties (so long as we don't just hike up their taxes anytime we need money. Boogeyman politics is the worst kinda politics. Very dishonest). It's the deficit im worried about. I want the investments. I just wanted a little more action.

zoe said...

For all of those who call you "wonky", thank you. For a person schooled in the late 60's, "wonky" = sexy. I appreciate your blog, I follow it daily, and enjoy you on MSNBC. Keep up the good work. It is thankless. But I am here to thank you. Keep on.

Randy said...

It's allll about the redistribution of wealth. Always has been. Always will be. The GOP has won the game for quite some time now, and are merely wetting their diapers now that the shoe is on the other foot. If people merely voted their pocketbooks instead of falling prey to misdirection, spin, and lies, the Dems would have never lost to Reagan nor the Bushes. The GOP preys on the ignorant quite successfully.

Mark said...

It's the income tax part of this that gives me some pause. In theory, I don't have a problem with rolling back the Bush tax cuts. But there are families in the middle class that bring in $250,000+ a year, and they're not rich, and they still have to watch their finances, and they can't afford to splurge on whatever they want, especially in this economy. The president and his advisers are making them out to be head-in-the-clouds millionaires who are endless founts of taxable monies.

It might be worth looking into whether a tax on liquid assets would be worthwhile. That would certainly encourage use-it-or-lose-it spending.

(Just trying to think outside the box, here. Ideally, of course, we wouldn't be having to talk about any of this.)

livemild said...

class warfare? i wish.

the credit card companies are getting away with highway robbery.

TARP recipients are still handing out bonuses.

unemployment has become the norm. (franken is still adrift!)

the mortgage crisis was the fault of the poor suckers who wanted a home. Of course in the 50's, 60's and 70's blue collar workers made enough to afford a home.
hard to afford a home now that the manufacturing jobs went overseas. walmart pays just enough for a cheap apartment.


the only war i see is the one being waged against the poor - i would have said middle class and the poor but at this rate there will be no more middle class.

Juris said...

I favor rolling back the Bush everything. Tax cuts, education policy, health policy, energy policy, antiterrorism policy, foreign policy.

Roll baby roll.

J. III said...

-Title is a long and awkward with vestiges of a failed wit scattered about

-Post begins abruptly with stilted language self-righteously criticizing someone or something no one cares about

-Post is littered with long, nigh-unreadable block quotes and transcripts that do little to illuminate or explain anything, particularly in proportion to their length

-Post is entirely devoid of empirical evidence, meaningful analysis, or any numbers at all

I don't even need to scroll to the bottom to know Sean Quinn has attempted to contribute to 538 yet again!

E-Dub said...

Good article Sean. Isn't it ironic that the same "deficit hawks" loose their bearings on the issue of marginal tax rates for the wealthiest Americans? If we intend to pay for Bush's wars, much less Obama's programs, we have no choice but (at a minimum) returning to the Clinton era marginal rates. It is only "class warfare" when the rich are loosing out. I've lived most of my life on the short end of the trickle, so I feel NO sympathy for the wealthiest amongst us bitching about something they can most certainly afford. Assuming arguendo that those people actually put their "tax cuts" into the US stock market back in the 1980s, they presently do not. They put their money in the HK, Singapore, and other Asian markets with a higher return. Giving the wealthy tax breaks to outsource America's wealth is horrible tax policy. This issue is what drew me to Obama from the beginning, and I couldn't be more pleased that he's delivering.

livemild said...

juris-

the best thing about bush is that he is gone. i think he should have gone to jail instead of Texas but i have to accept what i cannot change.

Paulo C said...

I think you're all too harsh on the press corps guys and gals.

Remember, most of them were there during the Bush years, when the press secretary would lie even about the time of day.

Given this background, wouldn't it be natural for them to be suspicious when a President start doing what he said he would do? If you were in the same position, wouldn't you find it almost revolutionary?

tjoconn said...

Keep blaming the wealthy that provide the jobs in the first place. My advice, dont bite the hand the feeds you.

If true working class people wanted to get paid more, they should should consider the party that wants to get tougher on illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants are taking jobs and reducing wages way more than any CEO possibly could.

And to this guy

""The reason the housing market collapsed is because Clinton passed initiatives making it too easy for poor people to buy houses they could not afford."

No."

Its not the only reason, but youre kidding yourself if you think it played no role at all.

nikip5555 said...

Well, perhaps part of this is that the media is not really used to seeing an elected official try to actually implement the platform on which he/she ran and won...

And the other part is this mythology that says that wealthy people spend every last bit of their substantial personal private after-business-expenses-have-been-subtracted take-home income creating jobs for other poor sots who just can't survive without them. Does anyone believe that someone making, say, $300K a year, who suddenly has to pay $2K/year more in taxes (about 4% of the amount above $250K) is going to fire the housekeeper, cancel the lawn service, quit eating out, and eliminate the dry-cleaning bill by wearing only machine-washable business suits?

Somehow, I just don't see it...

vilanye said...

But there are families in the middle class that bring in $250,000+ a year, and they're not rich, and they still have to watch their finances, and they can't afford to splurge on whatever they want, especially in this economy.

If someone making $250k are having tough times, that just means they seriously overextended themselves. That is a by-product of the insanity of our consumer driven culture and Bush's laughable, if not tragic, attempt(very successful) to go deep into debt after 9/11, after all that was the patriotic thing to do.

livemild said...

tjoconn-"Keep blaming the wealthy that provide the jobs in the first place. My advice, dont bite the hand the feeds you."

gee, i thought i EARNED my wages. now i know that it was all a gift!

of course since so many jobs have left our shores be sure to tell that "dont bite the hand that feeds you" crap to all that child labour and slave labor who are now working the jobs.

here in america your cutesy, thoughtless sayings dont hold water

vilanye said...

Keep blaming the wealthy that provide the jobs in the first place.

You mean the ones that caused the recession and bank failures and then gave themselves bonuses?

You mean the ones that shipped jobs overseas and then gave themselves huge bonuses?

You mean the ones that laid off thousands and then gave themselves bonuses?

You think they deserve anything but a jail cell?

Really?

Trickle down is a failure.

Give a millionaire extra money and he squirrels it away in a bank where his corrupt buddies use it to make him more money. None of which leads to job creation.

Give an average Joe extra money and he spends it, which leads to job creation.

Your tired rhetoric was always amusing, even in the 80's. It has passed farce and is now just pitiful.

Marc said...

That was awesome Sean. Now, you need to expose the absurdity of Republicans outraged by the projected deficit when the last seven years were spent hiding the cost of the war(s) from the budget totals - not to mention the poor judgement of tax cuts during wartime.

IdeaMan said...

I agree entirely that Obama is doing exactly what he said he'd do. But I'm also think there will be a backlash. Progressive-minded Americans want to believe that someday they will be in that tax bracket. When they make it, they don't care to be subsidizing individuals who aren't aspiring to the same and just looking for a free lunch or free healthcare, though they might happily subsidize education for aspiring students or to help invest in the future energy independence.

I fundamentally don't believe the moderate middle voted for Obama because of his universal healthcare plans.

And finally, I think Olympia Snow has a point when she said “While this budget claims to be long on fiscal responsibility and deficit reduction, it falls woefully short of these objectives.”

Let's remember that Obama was also elected because people felt he could *reform* healthcare and Washington in part by eliminating waste in both. Thus far he is short on plans to eliminate waste in healthcare and in Washington.

Obama needs to be careful here, he's losing control of the messaging. He needs to be seen as fixing the intrinsic problems, not just shifting the burden around.

Mister Ray said...

Remember Bush's remark that the wealthy were his base? It was perhaps an odd moment of candor, and the GOP's repudiation at the polls was nothing if not a call for the reversal of Bush's policies vis a vis the richest few percent.

Obama's plan merely recognizes that Bush selectively enriched his base and that some reconciliation is in order. Bush made the class distinction clear and waged something much more like war on their behalf than Obama is suggesting.

The more shouts of class warfare are heard, the more the wealthiest few seem to be saying "Eat me!" I doubt if they realize how tempting that sounds to too many people.

TubaOnFire said...

Wow. That was a great post. So many times the press just repeats the GOP talking points as questions. Between 2001 - 2008 did any reporter EVER ask a question about how the tax cuts impacted the deficit?

fred said...

Great post. As for the facts, I am glad he is doing something about the deficit, I voted him but would like to see him phase these plans in instead of doing all this at once during a recession. That said, we did ask for it.

fred said...

LOL! Politico is leading with "Class Warfare"...

Going back to Reagan levels of taxes on the rich is hardly class warfare.

striatic said...

The original argument for supply side tax policy, the voodoo economics, is that if you cut taxes, revenue increases.

well, since that's clearly not been happening with the Bush tax cuts, i think going back to the drawing board is a good idea.

the push-back here should continue to be "net tax cut", i think if you argue that this kills jobs, the repudiation is that the net-tax-cut puts more money into the marketplace and in the hands of people who will actually spend it, which is what the economy needs most right now.

consumer spending creates jobs, not the benevolence of the rich.

Timothy Morton said...

You read it here first: income tax is the fairest way of taking people's money for government spending. We seem to have forgotten that. Well done Nate Silver.

Saint Dude said...

I agree with IdeaMan. Obama has to do a better job of identifying efficiency gains and cost savings before launching into an expansion of healthcare.

This is not to say that I oppose universal health care. I do not. But I am already terrified by unfunded liabilities facing the post-baby boomer generations. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are already poised to eat us alive in the coming years.

All Americans should have access to quality health care. It is a moral imperative, as well as a financial one (considering lost productivity and bankruptcies). But I am not anxious to throw more money into the system. I would prefer to see the money for expanded health care come from cost savings derived from trimming back existing entitlements.

dorkenergy said...

@Sean: "They ought to count the number of times Obama spoke on the tax issue and drum that number home. That number, whatever it is, ought to be on the lips of Obama, Gibbs, and every single surrogate."

That -- and the election results (as you mentioned).

@Paulo C: "Remember, most of them were there during the Bush years, when the press secretary would lie even about the time of day. Given this background, wouldn't it be natural for them to be suspicious when a President start doing what he said he would do? If you were in the same position, wouldn't you find it almost revolutionary?"

Old habits do die hard. Any predictions on how long it will to take this troupe to get re-oriented?

Mister Ray said...

Idea Man

You wrote:
Progressive-minded Americans want to believe that someday they will be in that [higher] tax bracket. When they make it, they don't care to be subsidizing individuals who aren't aspiring to the same...

Incentive is a powerful thing, but I don't quite buy that part of your argument. First, I'd say there's zero chance that Obama will do anything to take the luster off of the idea of being rich. Second, as a future wealthy person I'd like my taxes to subsidize individuals who aspire to other things than just being in my tax bracket. How much money you make has little relation to your value to society.

Let's say, for example, that my high school math teacher kindled my love affair with very large numbers. Once those numbers started showing up on my tax returns, I'd feel pretty happy knowing that that teacher had health care even though she never got to the step of attaching dollar signs to the big numbers.

Eric Henriksen said...

I believe what you are seeing here is not incredulity that Obama is living up to his campaign promises but just how deeply embedded the Reagan era consensus on tax cuts has become within the beltway conventional wisdom. Tearing down the supply side mythos is going to take a lot effort.

Mark:

But there are families in the middle class that bring in $250,000+ a year

No! There are not middle income families making $250,000 a year. There is simply no sane or sensible way of defining middle class which includes the top 5% of income earners. Even in the highest cost of living areas of the country--NYC and San Francisco--$250,000 is almost 4 times the median family income.

Pat Kight said...

What Erik said. US Census bureau figures put the median household income for 2007 at just above $50k, and $250,000 puts a household in the highest 5 percent.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/income07.html

(All kinds of interesting figures there. For instance, the highest median incomes in the country are in parts of Maryland and Virginia that serve as bedroom communities for the nation's capitol.)

RufusRules said...

Damn, Robert Gibbs has the best job ever right now.

Reid: And a huge percentage of those people are small business owners.

Baloney. How many times can that Joe the Plumber crap get recycled? Olbermann made a good point the other day: if you're truly a small business owner and you somehow pocket $250,000 in income out of your business every year, you need to fire your accountant yesterday. I know a few small business owners, who are lucky to take home $50-75K in a good year (certainly not in 2008).

And as for the rest of you rich folks, guess what, you're gonna be all right. You didn't become extinct during the Clinton administration (or at any time before). So quit hyperventilating.

Mike in Maryland said...

Mark said...
But there are families in the middle class that bring in $250,000+ a year. . .

Take your GOOPer talking points and shove them.

According to the US Census Bureau 'State Median Family Income by Family Size' (2007 American Community Survey) shows that the state with the highest median family income is Maryland at $82,404.

That is less than 1/3 of $250,000.

Remember - median means half of the families earn more and half of the families earn less. Also remember that middle class has always been defined as median, plus or minus some percentage.

reedchex said...
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Kurt said...

I don't think that the media outrage over the $250K threshold can be solely attributed to personal self interest. Fact is, "Obama Raises Taxes On Wealthy" is a sexier headline than "Obama Cuts Taxes on 95% of Country". The fact is, if you polled Americans tomorrow on whether or not they felt their taxes would be raised under this plan, you'd get a heck of a lot more than 5% "yes" votes. You'd have people claiming they couldn't take a higher paying job because they'd make less money after taxes, because they don't understand the idea of marginal tax rates. I guarantee there are even families living under poverty level in this country that play the lottery every week and are outraged at the President's plan because their wealth is going to be taxed when they hit it big in the Pick-Six. People often dream big, and this President's message of hope is putting the brakes on some of those dreams. Very few people are going to be hurt much by this proposal, but I think a lot of people out there are convinced that their fortunes will rise high enough to be one of them.

reedchex said...

A golden "truth" of the conservative today is that if you raise the top marginal income tax rates on the wealthiest earners, they'll lose their initiative to work, create jobs, save, and invest, right?

A quick historical recap shows this: The roughly 40-year period from WWII through the Nixon/Ford years saw America grow economically like never before. All income brackets/social classes saw about 2.5% growth on average, the nation's total created wealth rose by 40%, and the middle class was created, among other things. Since all this did in fact occur, if conservatives are to be believed, the tax rate on the top earners would have to be around 10%.

Uh, no. Starting in 1942, the tax rates on those making 200K per year were set to 88%. Eighty-eight! They were then raised in the 1950's to 92%. LBJ cut them back to some degree to about 70%, and there they remained until the wealthy saw their taxes cut by Reagan to levels not seen since before the New Deal. The profits for the wealthy became astronomical, the middle-class and lower have seen little, if any, real net growth. Oh yeah, except under Clinton.

We're being asked to believe that raising the rates to 36.1% is going to bring economic catastrophe when the US had its greatest widespread economic expansion when the tax rates were at levels unimaginable today. Amazing. Really amazing. Class warfare my ***.

Eric Henriksen said...

IdeaMan

Let's remember that Obama was also elected because people felt he could *reform* healthcare and Washington in part by eliminating waste in both. Thus far he is short on plans to eliminate waste in healthcare and in Washington.

Uh, no. The candidate pushing the vacuous and milquetoast "reform and streamline" message was McCain. If all you wanted out of a health care plan was little waste cutting around the edges he was your guy.

And the Republicans made damn sure that even people living half way around the globe in a village with a single television set knew that Obama was going to "soak the rich" to fund "socialized medicine". He won anyway.

stunney said...

SUGGESTED QUESTIONS FOR THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS CORPS

"President Obama has been in office for more than a month and yet has shown no signs of legalizing slavery, levying a tax surcharge on union households to support the shopping habits of America's richest 500 teenagers, or dropping nuclear bombs on Teheran. Would it be too early to describe his as a failed presidency?"

"President Obama reportedly reads to his young daughters each evening. Do you think this will encourage al Qaeda to launch a terrorist attack and that the President is risking a My Pet Goat moment?"

"Some people are suggesting that raising taxes makes the President look more African-American. Is the President afraid that his actions will spark a race war in this country?"

"Many Congressional Republicans are blaming the Obama Administration for the failure of the stimulus package to restore the net worth of the GOP's biggest donors. Isn't this just another reason to conclude that President Obama can talk the bipartisan talk but he can't walk the bipartisan walk?"

"When is President Obama going to apologize to the American people for besmirching the reputation of the United States and stop implying that the previous Administration tortured prisoners, and is he willing to fly to Texas and seek forgiveness from President Bush for trashing this country's standing around the world?"

Steven said...

reedchex: Megan McArdle wrote something related to your post. Check out http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/02/a_living_wage.php for a different perspective.

imee said...
This post has been removed by the author.
imee said...

Interesting theory. Maybe McCain's tax policy could be good. Then again, we'll never know. I wonder, have you seen this image? Here, it's a chart with data taken from the whitehouse.gov website regarding how things were with Democrat and Republican offices.

-Imee

AxelDC said...

In 1980, Bush termed Reagonomics as "Voodoo Economics". Reagan's embrace of the Laffer Curve was based on its visceral appeal, not any proven metric to measure where on the Laffer Curve we may be.

In 1993, Clinton raised taxes to shore up the budget. The economy boomed. In 2001, Bush cut taxes, the economy fell. I know this is oversimplifying things, but it does show that tax cuts and economic stimulus do not go hand in hand.

We simply cannot afford the same level of deficits Bush reintroduced. You cannot balance the budget in a depression, either, but you have to take steps towards fiscal sanity.

mrseanpaul81 said...

"Mark said...

It's the income tax part of this that gives me some pause. In theory, I don't have a problem with rolling back the Bush tax cuts. But there are families in the middle class that bring in $250,000+ a year, and they're not rich, and they still have to watch their finances, and they can't afford to splurge on whatever they want, especially in this economy. The president and his advisers are making them out to be head-in-the-clouds millionaires who are endless founts of taxable monies."

WATCH THEY FINANCES???!!!! FOR WHAT??!! SO they could keep that 2.5 million dollar mansion and the small vacation house in Hawaii???!!

Give me a f..ing break!!!

Brad said...

A family making $250,000 a year is not middle class. If they are living paycheck to paycheck they have grossly over-spent and need a financial counselor. I know, I make that and am fat and happy. I am right at the margin of the tax increase - and I say tax me! It is not poor tax policy to tax people like Reagan did...

Jeff said...

This whole post is a red herring. The tax increases on the top were indeed expected and are NOT the major problem with this budget. Focusing on them (and GOP complaints about them) is in fact a way to distract from the major problem with this budget: namely, that it is utterly unaffordable. Even Krugman, who praised the budget's priorities, admitted that it will require a Value Added Tax at some point (in Canada we pay 15% on every good we buy - including things like home heating oil - its deeply regressive). The deficits are outrageous. One former comptroller of the US, on CNN, said that it would be impossible to even raise such cash on the capital markets. Other economists feel that it may trigger a hyper inflation.

And don't distract from the issue by whining that Republicans didn't care about deficits under Bush. For one thing, that is neither here nor there going forward. It doesn't absolve Obama. Secondly, it's not really true. As Krugman pointed out (NOW he tells us), Bush's budgets averaged about 270 billion until 2007 (2 or 3 percent of GDP, and sustainable). The spiked after the Dems won congress, and then - to be fair - mostly because of the recession. But Obama does not envision EVER driving the deficit below TWICE those numbers - they stretch on at 700 billion or more years after year. And those numbers assume (hilariously) - 5 to 6 percent GDP growth. If we go with a European model economy, we should expect European style growth (2%) not China/India style growth.

This is a gamble of monumental proportions for the Democrats. A high VAT or inflation of 15% will destroy them. But more importantly, this is a shocking gamble with the future of the country.

So I'm just curious. If we concede that the top tax bracket will rise (and even conceded, improbably, that this step with both serve social justice and somehow not hamper growth), do the Obama devotees on the site have any qualms about the fiscal madness of this budget?

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Silent Cal said...

The idea of cutting taxes for 95% of American workers is itself a lie, since only 60 or 65% of Americans even pay income taxes (or, rather, all workers pay, but 30 or 35% get back every penny [if not more] at the end of the year). How do you cut taxes for someone who pays $0?

Cugel said...

"Same thing for Bush. Did the housing market collapse because he lowered the taxes on the rich? If you thing so, go run in traffic."

NEWSFLASH: That's EXACTLY what happened! The 2001 vast tax cuts for the rich CREATED the HOUSING BUBBLE WHICH NOW HAS COLLAPSED!

Where do you think investors put their money? Real Estate. Where did huge investment portfolio managers put their money? Real Estate. Credit Default Swaps. Insurance backed loan guarantees. To the tune of TRILLIONS of dollars.


1. The tax cuts created a huge surge of investment income for the richest Americans.

2. This money had to be invested somewhere, but the dot.com bubble had already burst the year before, so investors were wary of investing in growth stocks.

So, they invested in real estate.

That inflated the housing market and by 2005 you saw run-away growth in housing prices, totally unrelated to the real income of average Americans.

That bubble was fueled by the unregulated market for credit default swaps. Lenders bidding with each other to offer the most ridiculous mortgages -- no-interest mortgage, no-money down mortgage, reverse amortization mortgage (your loan actually increases despite making all the payments and can only be sustained if you assume the housing market will forever continue to go up).

The sky's the limit! No job? No credit? No problem. It's all insured.

It was a frenzy of unregulated speculation that was unsustainable! Now, just like in the 30's it's collapsed.

I guess I'll go play in traffic now, since unlike conservatives, I'm obviously crippled by believing in reality!

Jesse Radin said...

$250,000 a year is a lot of money. It's definitely upper class, and they shouldn't complain about paying what they did under Clinton. We were all better off then.

Brad said...

Jeff-

Agree with you that the tax hike is not the issue, the real issue to me is the cap and trade and biz taxes will go against everything Obama claims to want - good manufacturing jobs. Those are NOT coming here if your plant is stuck in an expensive cap and trade system and your tax rate is high.

Brad said...

Jesse-

Also keep in mind though, I also paid already paid $60,000 in taxes last year when you add my $500+ a month to social security and medicare to my state and local income taxes....

djlewis said...

Why stop at 39.6% I think 45% would be quite a nice top rate, with the other brackets left as-is or cut a tad.

Combine that with limiting deductions (though careful with charity) and the other loophole closings proposed, and we might once again be approaching a fair tax system.

Jeff said...

DJ Lewis:
Raise the top rate as high as you want, you can't pay for this titanic (in all senses) budget. See:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html

Smidge204 said...

tjoconn: "The reason the Clinton years saw such an economic boom was from the internet boom."

It couldn't possibly be that putting money into the hands of consumers is what enabled the internet boom to take place, could it? All those people with additional income able to afford personal computers and internet access, creating a marketplace for online retailers...

You couldn't possibly have cause and effect backwards, right?

MichaelR said...

Gold, Nate, that post is gold. I'm telling people "you thought he was good with poll analysis? Try his news analysis."

mhz said...

spectacular post Sean- May the myth of the liberal media die soon.

I always wonder about Maddow- She has to be making over 250,000

phastphil said...

From the IRS - 62% of all small business owners and self employed earn $50K or less - 88% earn $100K or less and only 3.4% earn over $200K and less than 1% earn over $250K.
Some one on the TV machine needs to repeat these facts over and over again every time Republicans spout B*llsh*t about small busines.

Tony C. said...

@Lupercal:

It's the deficit im worried about.

Well, stop worrying! A deficit is borrowed money. We pay interest on it; specifically about 2-3%. So how does that work out?

A deficit of 1.75 Trillion = 1.75 x 10^12 dollars. We have 100 million households in America, that is 1 x 10^8 households. So the deficit works out to 1.75 x 10^4 dollars per household; $17,500. Now if you pay 2.5% interest on that every year, that is $437.50 interest per year, per household.

How does that compare to income? Census.gov, as others have noted here, says the median family income is $50,000 year. Which makes our interest payment 7/8 of one percent of our income, if we all paid equally.

If we shift the payment to only the 5% earning more than $250,000, it is at most 3.5% of their income: About the size of the increase to their 1990's marginal tax rate!

Voila!

That is an affordable rate for us as a country, and an affordable rate for the rich in the country.

Most of the rich earn way over $250K per year, so at least theoretically, we can use those excess taxes to slowly pay down the deficit. Or spend less on cold war weapons and foreign wars and redirect that spending toward deficit reduction.

In any case, put these deficit numbers in perspective, and they aren't horrible. At $50K median earnings, we earn $5 Trillion a year. A $1.75 Trillion dollar deficit is like owing 35% of your annual income and paying 3% interest on it. It is a 1% hit, hardly worth worrying about, not insanely inflationary, not the end of times, and not anything we cannot afford.

By comparison, by the time I graduated my student loans exceeded my annual income, like many graduates, and graduates routinely survive that and pay them back, at higher interest than 3%.

The deficit could triple tomorrow and still not be a serious threat. It is only Republican fear-mongering that worries you.

And Jindal's puerile formulation of "borrowing money from your children" is idiotic. In a family there is a clear distinction between kids and adults, there is no frikkin' bright line in the general population.

The best decision framework for the general population is to assume the age demographics remain constant, regardless of what happens to them personally, and that the future population will have pretty similar values to their own. In other words, the future population is not your helpless children, it is your adult, middle-aged, educated and self-sufficient children with similar responsibilities as you currently have.

And the question is, what debt level do you find reasonable as maintenance cost on the status quo, or investment in solving current problems to save them from those hardships?

In my opinion, the R's are the party of selfishness and their answer is zero, their only objective is personal gain at the expense of others. R's see all profit as a zero sum game; if there are winners there must be losers.

Dems are the party of investment, willing to restrain their greed for the benefit of fellow citizens beyond their immediate kin. We aren't Mother Theresa giving up everything, but 1% of my income for serious research into alternative and green energy, and independence from foreign oil? Even if I never in my life personally benefit from that investment, I am willing to make it. It is a big problem that will only grow bigger, and I feel it is my moral responsibility to try and solve that problem. Solving it could transform the country and the world and improve the lives of billions.

I wouldn't characterize myself as a bleeding heart, but I am not Scrooge. If 1% of our income can fix this problem once and for all, even if it took us ten years to find the solution and another 20 to deploy it, shouldn't we start spending it anyway?

Susan Weston said...

Bless you, Phastphil! Those numbers make perfect sense as income, meaning you take what customers pay you and subtract what you pay your landlord, suppliers, employees, and so on.

The numbers I went digging for were household income distributions from 2006 Census bureau figures:

• $77,500 a year puts you in the top 25% of households.
• $92,000 puts you in the top 20%
• $167,000 makes you top 5%
• $250,000 is top 1.5%

Okay, I used Wikipedia to get those numbers fast, but I’ve done similar work with the Data Finder at www.census.gov, and know the distribution is deeply in line with earlier results plus a little inflation.

I wonder if the world's best website for political numbers could take us a few steps further on understanding income in America(hint, hint).

Anthony Burns said...

Hey Nate you got to atleast be getting close after the year you had last year to a tax increase - I'm crying for ya - keep up the good work

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

phastphil said...

From the IRS - 62% of all small business owners and self employed earn $50K or less - 88% earn $100K or less and only 3.4% earn over $200K and less than 1% earn over $250K."

These numbers posted by phastphil are the most important numbers that throw this statement:

"Reid: And a huge percentage of those people are small business owners."

out the window.

As phastphil said, repeat these over and over and over. Nate, get these figures verified and get yourself another spot on CNBC, MSNBC and CNN if they'll give you an audience.

The large majority of Americans need to realize what a minimal amount of small business owners this actually affects.

justin32099 said...

To recapitulate an old joke, if you unleashed a colony of brain-eating monsters on the TV press corps, it would quickly starve to death. Even if you disagree with Obama's economic plan (and thus did not vote for him)--and let's be honest, the Republican criticism to it is highly disingenuous--why in the world would be you be surprised that he's actually following it?

fat karl said...

They talk about class warfare, I was wondering what that meant? Does that mean rich people will riot and burn down Rodeo Drive?

Berkeley Bear in Illinois said...

For Silent Cal (Seriously, a Coolidge reference? In this economy?) and anyone else buying his statement, you are conveniently ignoring the distinction between all taxes and income taxes. All employees pay payroll taxes, and that is the tool that is being used for the tax cuts in the budget and stimulus bill. A reduction in payroll taxes is the only way to reduce taxes for 95% of all families. It is exactly what the campaign promised, over and over again, and what voters elected President Obama to do.

I'm starting to believe that the truest statement in the campaign was that the GOP's members revel in ignorance. No matter how many times you say it, no matter how slow and clearly you speak, they just refuse to get it.

Leigh said...

"But there are families in the middle class that bring in $250,000+ a year" Is this adjusted? A gross income of $250000 in Manhattan or San Francisco does mean that the family still has stay within there budget and the money won't go as far as update New York. But won't they have the interest deduction on the big mortgage, etc. to deduct? Even in the most expensive area of the country, I think you need call 250K per year upper-middle class. They should have to "watch their finances" just like everyone else.

Leigh said...

their budget

nova_middle_man said...

Humm I wonder if some of the 200k+ people the overwhelminlgy voted for Obama are having second thoughts.

I agree the MSM is being dumb on this. I would run something along the lines of Poll 95% happy with new tax plan but 5% scream louder than most.

Kudos to Obama for sticking to his guns

but unfortuntaly I think hiw whole plan is going to blow up in his face

1. Congress is going to mess things up by refusing to cut pet projects

2. Obama is way too optimistic on how fast the economy is going to recover

Should be an interesting couple of months.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Obama about to speak on troop activity in Iraq HERE

juvanya said...

Am I the only one that remembers that Obama won the demographic of $250,000+/year?

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

oops. Sorry 'bout that. I assumed he was going to speak on the tarmac. Guess not.

GROG said...

Smidg204 said:

"It couldn't possibly be that putting money into the hands of consumers is what enabled the internet boom to take place, could it? All those people with additional income able to afford personal computers and internet access, creating a marketplace for online retailers..."

The 90's was the beginning of the greatest increase in consumer debt the country has ever seen, until we finally reached a negative savings rate. Lenders were dishing out money and consumers were spending it. This lead to a boom in the 1990's and we finally saw the bubble burst.

It was Clinton who first caused the housing bubble by eliminating capitol gains taxes on the sale of homes. People bought and sold houses like crazy. It was a sellers market for years. People went out and spent their windfall profits, or 2nd mortgaged their homes. Then came along the Barney Frank lead Fannie and Freddie debacle, coupled with ridiculously low interest rates, and here we are today. (Barney Frank is the one who be in a jail cell today.)

This notion that people should go out and spend to get us out of economic slowdowns is a dangerous one. These tax rebate checks are a joke. Borrowing money from one sector of the economy and redistributing it to another does not create economic growth.

Campaigning on the tax cuts for 95%of the population is great politics, but horrible economics. You cannot rely on the majority of tax revenue to come from the upper 2% of the population. It may feel good to stick it to the rich, but it's terrible policy.

Juris said...

@juvanya: you and I make at least 2 who remember that.

BTW/ all the discussion about what the "middle class" is is irrelevant. For some reason in the last 30 years or so we've stopped referring to the "working class," but that change is more one of style than of substance.

So where does the "middle class" start and stop in terms of income? I don't care.

I do know that the distribution of income and wealth has become increasingly unequal in recent years, and to me at least it's unseemly that the top 0.1% (one tenth of one percent) of individuals on the income scale earn more than 8% of total income in the country, and the top 1% almost 20% of all the income.

Now I don't begrudge the high income per se. It's that the marginal tax rates on those incomes are so low, while 50 million Americans don't have basic health insurance. That the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than most advanced industrial democracies. And it's that the quality of public education remains low, and the drop out rates are incredibly high.

thebert99 said...

Well, since the press gave Obama a pass on everything he said during the campaign, it's about time they started questioning him. They're only about 6 months too late.

GROG said...

Juris said:

"I do know that the distribution of income and wealth has become increasingly unequal in recent years, and to me at least it's unseemly that the top 0.1% (one tenth of one percent) of individuals on the income scale earn more than 8% of total income in the country, and the top 1% almost 20% of all the income."

These people making all the money you're refering to are the ones who are the most productive. They create jobs and employ people and they pay a bunch of taxes.

Instead of asking why the top 1% earn 20% of the income, why don't we ask what the other 99% can do to close the gap. (I know, just this suggestion of this angers a lot of people.)

The tremendous amount of wealth that Americans enjoy today, wasn't the result of penalizing the most productive that society has to offer.

TWOandFRO said...

I feel quite angry today as the administration I voted for has basically call for laying off me and thousands of other workers in the student loan industry.

Laying off thousands of workers should do wonders to state economies.

Smidge204 said...

GROG:

I honestly don't know what to say. On the one hand, you're blaming Clinton's tax cuts for the housing bubble, and on the other hand you're complaining that the richest people in the country are getting taxed too much.

First, show me the statistics that indicate the housing bubble started before 2000.

Second, consider how the top 1% of the country's wealthy individuals make their money. From whence does their wealth cometh?

Berkeley Bear in Illinois said...

Having been (briefly) on the cusp of that 250K/year threshold, I can tell you I wasn't creating all that many jobs and wasn't all that productive. I didn't own a business, neither did my spouse. We were both employees, me in a law firm and her for the state. My work (maybe) caused the marginal employment of 1 person who made less than 40k a year possible, but I even doubt that. See, our secretaries had to work for at least 3 attorneys each, so headcount rather than salary level drove their employment.

I was a litigator, so my activity arguably helped employ court reporters and such, too, but again, that was really irrespective of what I was making. Its not like my need for deposition support was driven by how much I made rather than caseload. In fact, my salary was linked only to what the firm could get away with charging for my work - and the main thing I did beyond paying for myself was help fund the wages and bonuses for people making a lot more than me (the partners) and covering the partners' losses for other associates whose costs exceeded what they brought into the firm.

Most of the people in that 250K/year salary range aren't business owners, as previously pointed out. They are professionals whose incomes are mainly based in the service sector (lawyers, brokers, salespeople, etc). These folks actually make more when they reduce non-fee generating staff. That's something that's been happening aggressively in law firms over the last decade (despite the Bush tax cuts), by the elimination of receptionists, cutting library staff, turning other staffers into ancillary revenue streams, etc. Can't see how a marginal increase will cause any further reductions, since most firms are pretty lean right now (and those that aren't will get there for reasons having nothing to do with taxes).

Tony C. said...

@Grog:

It is simply a Republican lie that the top 1% of earners are the most productive. A lie. It isn't true. Period.

They aren't "creating jobs", they aren't working a thousand times harder or a thousand times smarter, they aren't producing a thousand times more value for society.

In fact, because it is physically impossible for people to do these things, the rich produce the least value per dollar paid of anybody in the country!

How freakin' naive about business can you possibly be? What kind of magic do you think is happening in board rooms and CEO offices? Whatever you think is happening isn't happening; those guys earning tens of millions are just skimming profits from shareholders that can't stop them because board members conspire to pay each other well.

Any "new jobs" created by those mega-corporations were created decades ago, with low single-digit increases and decreases since then. They are stagnant. Selling green beans may be a good and profitable idea for centuries, but it isn't growing any faster than the population, and isn't creating any new jobs.

The rich are the least productive members of our society; the most productive members are the lower middle class working two jobs to make ends meet and raise and educate a family.

Andrew said...

I don't know Tony C., many professional doctors and lawyers work 80-100 hours a week. My dad was a family doctor and worked incredibly hard.

At any rate, I applaud Obama for his proposal to increase taxes on the wealthy. Since the gap between the rich and poor has increased since Bush's tax cuts, I think it's fair. The middle and lower classes did not enjoy any of the prosperity during the Bush years and now it's time they got some of the benefit.

And I'm tired of people blaming Clinton for the economic crisis. The housing bubble didn't even occur until 2002 or 2003. And there were numerous other factors, such as over leveraging (a huge factor, btw) that was not Clinton's fault, but the Bush administration's lack of oversight.

Clinton's goal was to make it easier for low income earners to buy affordable housing. It was the banks who made reckless decisions because of their greed.

grandpa john said...

From the IRS - 62% of all small business owners and self employed earn $50K or less - 88% earn $100K or less and only 3.4% earn over $200K and less than 1% earn over $250K."

These numbers posted by phastphil are the most important numbers that throw this statement:

"Reid: And a huge percentage of those people are small business owners."

out the window.

And that information has been spread at least since it first came up during the campaign.
for Reid to make his statement means that either his is knowingly lying or is incredibly stupid and uninformed in his area of supposed expertise.

counsellorben said...

Great post, Sean.

This is the best example of how distorted our tax system has become.  Ideally, this financial crisis should serve as the catalyst for a radical reform of our tax system.  Raising marginal rates on earned income for those earning over $250,000/year is a good start.

However, it is time to eliminate the tax preference for capital gains (and tax it at the same rate as for earned income), to substitute a credit value-added tax for corporate taxes, and to institute a wealth tax.  These simple measures would help increase revenues, while at the same time creating a more fair distribution of the tax burden.

When conservatives have managed to distort the tax system to place a disproportionate share of the tax burden on earned income, we must act to restore more fairness to our tax system, and redistribute the tax burden in ways which will help raise revenues, while insuring that those on the lower end and in the middle of the earnings spectrum have more income available for consumption and savings, since those are the people who can best provide the means to help mitigate our present crisis.

Conservatives and the wealthy might cry "class warfare" if any of these changes are implemented.  The stark truth is that the last 25 years have been a cold class war, waged by the wealthy against everyone else.  The wealthy have had their tax policy as the preferred policy of the US for a quarter century, and the rest of the country is worse off because of it.

Tom said...

Grandpa john is right.

This from FactCheck.org, http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html

"Based on the number of taxpayers who now report any sort of business income on their returns, the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center projects that 663,608 taxpayers with business income, or business losses, will fall into the top two tax brackets in 2009, when any Obama tax changes would first take effect. Not all of those can properly be called "small-business owners," however. Some are farmers. Many are lawyers, accountants or other professionals who get some of their income in the form of partnership distributions. Others may be passive investors in real-estate partnerships or similar investment arrangements and not really persons who own and manage a business."

I'm a (self-employed) reporter, and Reid's question was totally uninformed.

vilanye said...

I feel quite angry today as the administration I voted for has basically call for laying off me and thousands of other workers in the student loan industry.

The area you work that is basically a corporate scam. This is the sacrifices he was saying it would take to fix things. This is government waste at its worst and it can't keep going on.

Why spend all that money on a middle man when you don't have to?

It sucks you might lose your job, and I hope if you do get laid off you find another job quickly. Being selective about what work you do and who you do it for help stop these sorts of problems.

vilanye said...

Grog,

You really think that rich people are more productive? I would like to see you back that up.

The rank and file is what makes a company profitable.

Arkansas Traveler said...

Regarding the housing bubble, it's important to remember the ONLY reason the turmoil has spread throughout the financial system is the advent of unregulated Credit Default Swaps. If the 3% of mortgages that are in foreclosure (as of third quarter 2008; I recognize it has increased somewhat since then) had happened without CDSs, it would have had minimal impact. However, introducing a financial instrument that allowed me, a disinterested third party, to essentially bet on whether you will pay your mortgage or not resulted in each mortgage foreclosure to result in not just that mortgage failing, but also 100 other CDS bets to fail. AIG, for example, now had to pay up on 100 CDSs when you defaulted. AIG couldn't pay that; its customers had used those CDSs as their hedges against mortgage defaults, so if AIG doesn't pay them, they can no longer cover their losses, because the hedging provided by the CDS is what allowed them to leverage to such great heights. Thus, AIG couldn't be allowed to fail, as it would cause cascading failures. AIG shouldn't have been allowed to insure items it couldn't possibly cover, but because the CDS market was (and is still, to my knowledge) COMPLETELY unregulated, there were no controls. Also, most financial firms' planning for "Black Swan" events capped their catastrophic event calculations at $20 million; there was no difference to them in their actuarial tables between a $20 million disaster and a $20 billion disaster ... Giving loans to subprime folks wouldn't have had a huge impact if not for the CDS explosion (and if you want to blame low-income folks for defaulting on their mortgages, are you going to likewise spew invective at all the owners of high-end properties that will be foreclosed upon as the Alt-A's reset in 2009 and 2010?)

TWOandFRO said...

@vilanye -

"The area you work that is basically a corporate scam. This is the sacrifices he was saying it would take to fix things. This is government waste at its worst and it can't keep going on."

Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. The FFEL Program is a cheaper and better product then Direct Lending.

It is also a system that works very well for schools and borrowers. The benefits received by students from Lenders and Guarantee Agencies would be greatly missed (and not made up for by the government).

In my state alone student receive over $3 million in need-based grants from those involved with the FFELP.

Mad said...

It sucks you might lose your job, and I hope if you do get laid off you find another job quickly. Being selective about what work you do and who you do it for help stop these sorts of problems.

I see a statement like this from vilanye - who has an obvious "left" or "liberal" tilt in all of his/her other posts - and I can't help but want to cry "Hypocrisy!" or "Double-standard!"

When a conservative makes a statement like that and lists THE SAME REASON of letting jobs like this go because they are wasteful, unnecessary, etc. - and maybe throws in a tidbit about how the free market is efficiently allocating the labor pool - they are derided, chastised, castigated, ostracized, etc, etc, etc. about how apathetic they are to "working class concerns."

Now you - a flaming liberal - state much the same thing - i.e. that superfluous jobs need to be eliminated/dissolved while giving the person a dismissive "Awww, gee, hope you can find a new line of work but we really need to cut your job out for the greater good, so go get 'em tiger!" - and it's okay?????!!!! What a crock of shit!

In summary:

WHen a liberal seeks to eliminate inefficiencies in the market and is not overly concerned with what that may mean in terms of the dissolution of certain goods, services, or jobs, then we're just supposed to accept that as reality because they inherently ARE ALWAYS out for what's best, but when a conservative does it, they are apathetic troglodytes all out to screw the working class.

Give me a f***ing break!!!


Sorry, but I had to call your double-standard ass out on that one!

Tony C. said...

@Andrew:

I'm not knocking doctors and lawyers, but the number of hours worked by them is on average maybe 20% more than what others work. Even if they do average 80 hours a week (and during my consulting days I managed 75 a week for a one year stretch, and as a single guy I don't see how more could be managed), that is only double the work.

But the point of Berkeley Bear holds: Charging clients more just changes your pay, it doesn't automatically create any jobs.

Doctors and lawyers are like anybody, when they make more money they don't rack their brains for ways to spend it or ways to hire more people. They fall into a comfortable rut and stay there for a decade or two, pretty much regardless of their income, or taxes, or cost of employees, or cost of offices.

As long as their income doesn't fall beneath some critical threshold they won't change anything. The idea that raising the marginal rate on doctors and lawyers will cost any measurable loss of jobs is a lie; all it changes is the rate of accumulation in their bank accounts by a few percent. If it really bothers them, they will just see an extra patient a month.

One of my friends is a dentist that only books patients three days a week, and he does this now; when he has unexpected expenses he has his assistant call patients until he fills a Thursday.

Jeff said...

-Different jeff.

The fifth percentile is at about $150k in family income.

$250k is within the top 2%. About 1.5% as I recall.

The top 1% is at like 280k.

Jeff said...

-Different jeff again.

This, btw is what Obama campaigned on.

Bottom 95% gets cuts. Top 1.5% (aka over 250k) gets increases. 95-98.5 stay about the same.

Jeff said...

-different jeff

"One of my friends is a dentist that only books patients three days a week, and he does this now; when he has unexpected expenses he has his assistant call patients until he fills a Thursday."

Yea, two of my family friends are doctors. Both retired early because they had enough money and didn't want to work any more.

Sometimes paying people more means they work less.

Mad said...

Sometimes paying people more means they work less.

They earned the right to do that you mook by shelling out considerably more money for college, sacrificing by going to college and being trained for much long (several years in fact), and by going into a profession that is high demanding and requires elevated intelligence and common sense.

Look, you guys gotta quit with this veiled socialist speak. This is exactly the model that the hard core Commies wanted....doesn't matter if you're a janitor or nuclear physicist, you both get X amount per year.

There's a reason a janitor makes $6/hour and a reason nuclear physicists make considerably more. I'm not about screwing the "little guy" and think our poor should be protected, but there is a reason people make what they do and it SERVES A PURPOSE.

Tony C. said...

@Mad:
They earned the right to do that you mook by shelling out considerably more money for college, sacrificing by going to college and being trained...

Wow, it sounds like they borrowed and spent their way to prosperity!

But wait, I thought you Republicanistas didn't believe in that!

Jeff said...

-different jeff

Hmm "mook". Always nice to learn a new insult.

Put down that straw man. It is dead, dead, dead.

You really need to reduce the numbers of assumptions you make because they are making you a mook. I said nothing of what you have read into the very brief factual statement I made.

Mad said...

Tony C. - You are the one using a straw man. You don't refute anything I have to say except make a snide remark, and your comparison to deficity spending by the government (a macro factor) is completely irrelevant to personal borrowing and spending (a micro factor). Maybe that's more of a red herring than a straw man.

Jeff- You still made a slight about people who make more money and their working habits, insinuating they don't "deserve" it. I was pointing it out that they do....for the most part.

Wanna rail on people who are "overpaid"? Hit up CEO's and pro sports figures, but leave the doctors, lawyers, etc. making 200k-300k alone. They've earned it (for the most part - I add this because I'm sure there are some who don't).

Jeff said...

No, you mook.

I said that sometimes people who are paid a lot retire. I personally know two doctors who did so.

This isn't an insinuation it is a factual statement.

You, however, are all about insinuation. Insinuating that I said all sorts of things I did not say by railing against them as if I had said them.

Smidge204 said...

Worth noting that doctors and lawyers (especially lawyers) are successful only in a prosperous society. Yeah, a doctor may have had to "sacrifice" to get that degree, but it was only worth doing so because we live in a society that has, for the most part, the luxury of health care.

Like it or not, that luxury is subsidized by taxpayer dollars.

Also, it seems absurd to say someone who got their PhD has somehow sacrificed more than someone who got stuck working two jobs to make ends meet and/or never had the opportunity to attend college. Higher education is also a luxury afforded by a prosperous society.

Phoenix Flamed... said...

To all the naysayers please remember this; President Obama is raising his own taxes as well!

And frankly, only the extremely wealthy can afford to pay for anything these days.

Tony C. said...

@Mad:
You are the one using a straw man.

I believe you have me confused with somebody else!

You don't refute anything I have to say except make a snide remark, and your comparison to deficity spending by the government (a macro factor) is completely irrelevant to personal borrowing and spending (a micro factor).

No it isn't. What R's call "borrowing and spending" is exactly the same as what a student is doing when he aspires to be a doctor, lawyer, architect, engineer or whatever. They are borrowing money (the vast majority of them) and spending it as an investment they hope pays off later. Some drop out and lose their investment, or change majors and repurpose their investment, others succeed, pay off those loans in seven or eight years, and enjoy the returns on their investment.

The macro picture isn't precisely comparable to the micro picture but certainly the outline is the same.

We borrowed and spent like crazy to produce the Interstate Highway system, and guess what? Despite maintenance costs, it has paid for itself a thousand times over in reducing transportation costs. That system would NEVER have been built and maintained as a private enterprise. NEVER.

Regardless of their motivations, it was the government that was paying millions for computers less powerful than the ones in my cell phone; it was the government that was paying for research on the Arpanet that led to the Internet, it was the government paying for research into genomics, it was the government showing the value of sattelites, and it remains the government footing the bill for fundamental research in a thousand sciences with no clear goal but hundreds of beneficial results every year. That includes my own work, by the way; I am funded by a government research grant and I made two significant discoveries last year because of it.

The fact is that on the macro level you CAN borrow and invest your way to prosperity, just like on the micro level. In fact, because our government borrows at miniscule rates, it is even smarter to do that; I am all in favor of another trillion dollars being spent on infrastructure, and yet another trillion dollars being spent on achieving energy independence as rapidly as possible (and no, it isn't my field and I would not benefit from the grants).

Just like medical school, a temporary hardship for eight years now would produce a lifetime of massive benefits.

And as I outlined the arithmetic above, the interest on that deficit would cost us next to nothing in taxes, it would hardly be noticeable.

Mad said...

Tony C. -

Keep the faith, bub. Just don't be too disappointed when it ends in colossal failure.

Russet Shadows said...

For some people, the answer to government overspending is always, "punish the successful". I can't understand that, mostly because I don't hate people for succeeding. Nor do I hate them for inheriting; nor do I care how they legally got their money. It's not my business.

Maybe we could actually stop spending money that we don't have? I know, that's crazy talk. I wonder how people in the 1950's and 1880's and 1820's got by without such a massive government? They did get by, somehow, right?

Government is the safety blanket for the fearful.

TFLive said...

After 8 years of the GOP's "Rich first" practices, isn't it time to try something else?

Its seems to be, regardless of party preference, that if something has not worked for 8 years, instead of trying it for a ninth, maybe, just maybe trying something new (or in this case something that has proven to work in the past). After all the definition of crazy is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results which is exactly what the GOP is trying to sell.

As for the press, there isn't one on TV or in Washington that doesn't make over 250k a year. Of course they are having a fit. It makes you wonder if maybe in the spirit of transparency they should disclose they taxes (as they expect from politicians) so that we know where their bias are coming from.

mikeandbrian said...

Ahem, what about the Peace Corps? Where'd they fall in the budget?

Berkeley Bear in Illinois said...

To clarify my comments about lawyers, doctors and money, only a tiny subset of either profession makes 250k a year. In law, they basically are at big law firms with large corporate clients (which is what I was doing) or p.i. lawyers (the guys on everyone's phonebook) who have a really good year. The vast majority don't make near that, and yet their law degrees were no less expensive and they are no less "productive". In fact, many of the ones making a lot less do as much or more to stimulate the economy because they spend a lot more time and money (as a percentage of income) on advertising and contract services.

Fundamentally, suggesting that making a large amount of income is somehow evidence of "earning" anything is just silly. PhDs are a lot harder to get than JDs, and just as pricey, yet most PhDs will never make what a decent lawyer does. People who get Master's Degrees in Education spend just as much time and money to get them, but will never sniff 150k in income.

Let me try to put the disconnect between "earning" it and salaries in some perspective. My first year out of law school, associates at my firm were paid 65k to start. Eight years later that number was up over 100k. They hadn't gotten much smarter or more productive than I was at the same point in my career, yet they were paid 50% more. Did they "earn" this extra money? Nope, they just graduated at the right time. See, the firm had to raise salaries because even bigger firms on the coasts and in Chicago had gone up even more to avoid losing people (first to .coms, then to each other). Everyone covered the hit by raising rates (conveniently enough, the partners also jacked up their own rates).

Now that the economy is bad, those same firms are not hiring as many new lawyers and firing some junior people. What they aren't typically doing (at least yet) is lowering the rates or income for partners. That step typically is only taken as a last resort in swings like this. When they start hiring again, they'll try to do it at reduced salaries if they can, I'm sure. Now did the people graduating law school this year "earn" the crappy market they are entering? Did the folks who are already partners really "earn" the right to keep their wages artificially high at the expense of employment of others? Or was it all just, in large part, a crapshoot that some won and others lost?

RShadows - the 1950s had much higher tax rates (as detailed above) and the country made massive investments in infrastructure (the Interstate Highway system), defense (cold war related, mainly) and education. The 1870s and 1880s were plagued by bank failures, monopolists, robber barons who treated workers like cattle and rampant government corruption (not to mention tenements, deadly epidemics, rampant child labor and overt racism in hiring and treatment of everyone except WASPS). The 1820s saw massive fights over creating a centralized bank, the national debt and rampant bank failures that wiped people out all over the country (not to mention ongoing hostilities with Mexico and England, Indian wars, the "Trail of Tears" and many other situations that you would never wish on your worst enemy). People "got by" - those who didn't die in childbirth, from rampant disease, or industrial accidents, or untreated cancer, etc. - but you should consider yourself incredibly lucky to be living at this time, for all its faults.

Libertarianism is a sop to people who can't admit wer'e all in this together.

Tony C. said...

@Mad:

And now who is it that cannot refute my statements, and just makes snide remarks?

Should I assume you will be disappointed when we succeed? No, of course not, you will do what R's always do, latch on to some trivial item and claim it did all the work, or just deny that it worked at all. I imagine you will say then that the recovery was inevitable and actually delayed by the very investments that brought it about!

The difference between me and Republicans is I am a scientist that deals in real world solutions that actually work in practice, and they are incapable of cogent analysis and substitute an endless supply of hypocritical bullshit with no basis in empirical fact or experiment.

"Mad" is a good name for you; you seem like an emotional wreck lashing out at precisely the help you need. But you will get the help anyway, if rational minds prevail as I hope they do.

stop_the_stutter said...

You guys are disgusting to be arguing to tax the hell out of the people who actually contribute to society, under the guise and euphemism of "tax fairness".

If you guys were truly interested in tax fairness, rather than just growing your pool of government dependents, you would raise ALL tax brackets back to the way they were under Clinton, since he was sooo....fair.

Under the Obama plan, it would be TWO tax cuts for low end earners (the new one from Obama AND the original one from Bush) and NO tax cuts for the producers/small businesses, since 2001.

Tony C. said...

@Russett Shadows:

Berkeley Bear said it better than I could about earlier times.

Your whole premise of "punishing the successful" for "government overspending" is flawed. That isn't the reason for raising taxes, and isn't the reason for raising taxes on the rich, or lowering taxes on the rich.

The government is not some adversary. It is there for two purposes; one is to protect citizens from bullies and criminals (which is why we have an army, police, FDA, SEC, OSHA and court system), and the other is to do the jobs the majority of citizens don't want done for a profit motive (schools, licensing of doctors or drivers, building and health inspections, police protection and tax collection, prosecutions, water treatment, road building, etc.)

Society doesn't exist without it. We raise taxes when costs increase; that is not "government overspending," it is a consensus view that the government should beef up existing tasks (better oversight of the financial industry), or take on new ones (helping to eliminate the profit motives in medical care and medicine, or being an employer or lender of last resort in order to prevent a domino effect economic collapse).

We tax the rich more than the poor because the impact on the rich is less. Not in dollars, not in percentages, but in pain experienced. I remember twenty years ago and earning $50K. My discretionary income was maybe $10K a year, after housing, cars, and other bills. Somebody earning $250K probably has ten or fifteen times the discretionary income as somebody earning $50K. What is "fair" is not equal dollar amounts, it is not equal percentages, it is equal pain, and to the first approximation that is equal percentages of discretionary income, not total income.

Kensational said...

I love the disingenuous "wealth redistribution" argument.

I agree, lets not have any. And by the way that means that every State that gets more than a dollar in Federal WEALTH DISTRIBUTION aid for each dollar paid to the Federal govt in taxes gets only a dollar back from now on.

IN fact, of the top 25 States that get more than a dollar in Fed aid than taxes spent, 18 are red republican. (Noting that Virginia and Iowa are counted as Blue while being red in previous elections otherwise it would be 20 out of 25.)

Of all the States that get LESS than a dollar in Fed aid, that is those states that have their WEALTH REDISTRIBUTED away from them, there are 16 of these States, only one Texas is republican.

markymark said...

'How would you respond to the idea that this is wealth distribution?'

'America could do with a little wealth distribution.'
---------------------------------

One of the reasons that this line of attack won't work is that the $250,000 line puts most Americans, by a long way, below it. And I think actually they think, many of them at least, that it is fair that the well off Americans pay more in taxation.

Texasnative3 said...

As someone who falls near the magic 250K per year per family (some years above and some years below), I don't mind paying a marginally increased tax rate. I want to see us end a senseless war, find Osama bin Laden, get healthcare for more people, have safer highways and bridges and dams, and a cleaner environment. Since those things cost money, I am happy to help out. The simple fact that President Obama included the cost of the wars in the budget makes me smile. I am happier today than I was one year ago, four years ago, and eight years ago. I'll call it the happy tax.

jonathan said...

+Look, you guys gotta quit with this veiled socialist speak. This is exactly the model that the hard core Commies wanted....doesn't matter if you're a janitor or nuclear physicist, you both get X amount per year.

There's a reason a janitor makes $6/hour and a reason nuclear physicists make considerably more.+

Absolutely. There should be a range, but society needs janitors and truck drivers. If janitors and truck drivers can't make a living and raise a family, society suffers - it doesn't prosper.

There ought to be a multiple of something like 40-50 between the highest wage earners and the lowest in our society (excepting actual entrepreneurs who go out and create new and important things). Instead our multiple is on the order of 400 or more. It's not sustainable, it's not workable, and it's always been a disaster waiting to happen.

The disaster's unfolding before our eyes.

Tony C. said...

@jonathan:

I'd like to see that multiple, but not a particular number. What I would like to see is regulation that stockholders of public companies can approve by majority vote a specific cap on all executive compensation, say tri-annually. So they can approve $100M if they want; but if they only approve $5M, that is really the maximum any executive can earn in any form as payment from the company.

The salary question should be put explicitly into the hands of the owners, not the board, and the owner vote should include the option of TERMINATION for any executive.

I believe there is a wider point to be made about entrepreneurs. The R idea that rich are more productive is BS. Certain ideas are simply worth millions or billions or trillions of dollars.

Not over any time span, just instantaneously worth that much. The person or team that had the idea, develops it and brings it to reality deserve the money.

I don't think Gates or Jobs or Bezos are worth billions because of any particular hourly worth, they are worth billions because at some point, they each had ideas worth billions to hundreds of billions and traded shares in their idea to get it realized.

It was the idea that was worth the money. The idea and all the money it generates rightly belongs to the inventor (whether man or team), but that doesn't mean they are worth more per hour than any other worker.

Not even for the chance they will have another epiphany. If they do they should be allowed to cash in on it with a separate company, or let it add to the value of their current company. Executive compensation above about $500K a year should be tied to relative performance and approved by a majority of stockholders.

joshyMinor said...

I am seriously starting to think that the only thing Obama is good at is giving speeches.

RT
www.privacy-center.pro.tc

Tony C. said...

@markymark:

It IS fair that the wealthy pay more. Why would anyone think it was not?

Outside of the relative pain of taxation issues that I think are most compelling, here is the other reason:

The wealthy use more of the government's resources. They rely more heavily on banking regulation to protect their assets. They rely more heavily on the Securities and Exchange Commmission to prevent companies from cooking the books. They rely more heavily on the police force to protect their greater amount of property. They rely more heavily on the FBI to protect them from kidnapping and extortion threats. They rely more on the FAA to keep airplanes safe and regulate inspection protocols. Those that earn money through business rely more heavily on the postal system and road system and court systems, to deliver products or advertisements and enforce contracts. They rely far more on state certification tests and procedures, for accountants, lawyers, engineers, architects and other professionals.

The wealthy use far more of the resources provided by government, while the working middle class rely on relatively few. That proportion of use is not the same as a flat percentage of income, like a flat tax would suggest.

A fair distribution of the cost of government is more like 30/70, and that suggests the rich pay, proportionately, about 2.3 times what the middle class pays.

So, I doubt the flat tax proposal of 17% would actually be enough, but say for the moment it would. It hides the unfair charges with a facade of equality. A fair charge would be 10% tax at the median income ($50K) rising to 24% by the top 2% (about $250K), with a standard exemption of twice the poverty level for the given household (that would be $33K on the typical three-person household). No other income exemptions, such as mortgage interest or whatever.

It is fair for the wealthy to pay more for government; they need it more, use it more, and have more to lose if it doesn't do its job.

His Divine Shadow said...

The reason the housing market collapsed is because Clinton passed initiatives making it too easy for poor people to buy houses they could not afford.

That, people, is compassionate conservatism.

It wasn't predatory and deceptive practices to lure people into mortgages they couldn't afford then the packaging of those bad mortgages into toxic, overrated "vehicles", it was because the lowest 10th of US citizenry were greedy and stupid enough to want a house and believe they could have part of the American Dream!

Of course! It couldn't be more simple!

Chris said...

How about the fact that 80% of economists- even those free marketeers- agree with a progressive tax like the one Obama is implementing now?

The press is just sour that they're being taxed now. Pricks.

GROG said...

The top 1% have paid more than the bottom 90% for years. Now Obama is getting credit for a progressive tax?

Nell said...

A Media Matters column last October 3 noted the remarkably shoddy quality of reporting on the Obama and McCain tax policies, when there was any focus on policy at all.

As of that date, not a single story gave readers a clear idea of the total cost of each candidate's plan, nor what would be the size of the cut or increase for people at specific income levels (except, classically, for an article in the Washington Post KidsPost section!).

So it's no surprise that reporters are acting as if Obama's tax proposals are brand new. They literally stopped their ears and brains during the campaign, too focused on utter crap to hear what was in every stump speech, prominent on the website and the campaign literature. Did any of the political reporters so much as glance at the leaflets that millions of voters were receiving when they opened their doors to Obama volunteers?

I'm not Robert Gibbs' biggest fan, but I can certainly see how his experience during the campaign didn't build up a big reservoir of respect for the press corps.

Chuck said...

You'd think it would be obvious by now, in any case, that the only thing that happens when you rig the tax code to make the rich richer is that the rich get richer. Period.

Regarding top marginal tax rates, a little historical background (something scored by the "we make our own reality" crowd) puts the proposed changes into perspective:
"By 1918, the top rate of the income tax was increased to 77% (on income over $1,000,000) to finance World War I. The top marginal tax rate was reduced to 58% in 1922, to 25% in 1925, and finally to 24% in 1929. In 1932 the top marginal tax rate was increased to 63% during the Great Depression and steadily increased, reaching 94% (on all income over $200,000) in 1945. During World War II, Congress introduced payroll withholding and quarterly tax payments. Top marginal tax rates stayed near or above 90% until 1964 when the top marginal tax rate was lowered to 70%. The top marginal tax rate was lowered to 50% in 1982 and eventually to 28% in 1988. However, in the intervening years Congress subsequently increased the top marginal tax rate to 35% (the top marginal tax rate as of 2007)."

(From Wikipedia's article on Taxation in the United States; the whole thing can be viewed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_States).

Ben said...

Hey I have an idea...give me $250K a year and tax me at 50%. I promise I would come out better than I am now. I would probably even start a business and hire two people. One would be my wife, though, because that's how you do it.

Also, I wouldn't complain about my tax rate in public because I would be embarrassed to admit that I was making so much money. These lousy reporters making 300-400K aren't worth 50K a year. They just got a couple lucky breaks. Very few of them are worth their salts...you can tell by the questions they ask...

Luigi said...

Ho about a list of all the White house reporters and their annual incomes on a website. That will keep the bastards honets. ;)

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菲梵酒店經紀,
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禮服酒店上班,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
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便服酒店工作,
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制服酒店經紀,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,

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ass said...

From cell phones users to see the specific situation of occupational segmentation in 2009, accounting for 19.5% of students dropped 21.2 percent over last year, other types of occupations than those last year, the proportion of Internet users cheap cell phones increase. White collar crowd from last year's 29.2% increase to 38.9% this year, accounting for 9.7 percentage points up to replace the student groups cellphone users as one of the biggest occupational hierarchy; blue-collar crowd from last year's 13.9% to 18.9% this year, accounting for rose by 5.0 percentage points, showing that mobile phones users by a group of students to the occupational groups a significant trend in the development. Ereli advice that, cheap cell phones and mobile phone users Internet users monthly income distribution of age, education, occupational distribution has strong correlation with high spending capacity of white-collar workers and some students in the crowd will be a huge cell phone china online potential consumer groups.

ass said...

By comparing the traditional Internet users, Internet users to iResearch found that the traditional white-collar-based, cell phones wholesale, corporate general staff accounted for 18.9%, higher than the 5.6% of the wholesale cell phones users accounting; and discount cell phones users in the years students and blue-collar workers accounted for significantly more than the traditional Internet users, respectively, accounting for 19.5% and 18.9%, higher than the traditional Internet users Students and blue-collar workers accounted for 7.8% and 5.1% respectively.

ass said...

The survey found that consumer 3G wholesale china from the crowd of view, the buyer 25 to 40 years old mainly white-collar workers, accounting for about 40%, followed by consumer groups of students, accounting for about three into. According to statistics, 3G wholesale products in sales, compared with a 2G mobile phone sales are still a wide gap between, but since June has been, 3G mobile phones increase in the average monthly buy products for more than 50%, "11" period due to holiday business, the increase of more than 150%. Pk that the "11" after the peak sales of 3G handsets likely to usher in more stable growth.