If he were going to name Caroline Kennedy to the Senate, wouldn't it have happened already?
People have made the comparison to Sarah Palin, but this feels more Harriet Miers-ish, as in the longer someone is left out there hanging, the more manifest the problems with their credentials, and the less likely they'll get appointed because of inertia alone.
Quinnipiac is out with a poll showing Andrew Cuomo preferred 31-24 over Kennedy; this is noteworthy because Kennedy had been slightly ahead of Cuomo in a Quinnipiac poll in December. And this is not the only poll of its kind; the boys at Public Policy Polling had found a significant decline in support for Kennedy -- a much more significant decline than identified by Quinnipiac, in fact.
These are just polls, I know, but since the Constitution empowers governors to appoint replacement senators without holding a vote, they are arguably more meaningful in this instance than they are at any other time, the closest the public gets to actually having input on the election. And while I was skeptical about some of the original netroots skepticism about Kennedy, she simply hasn't worn well.
1.14.2009
What's David Paterson Waiting For?
@ 12:46 PM
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First
Maybe Governor Paterson is waiting for an actual vacancy in the position of New York Senator before appointing anyone.
For one, Hiliary Clinton hasn't resigned her Senate seat yet, so technically there's not a vacancy for Paterson to fill.
Maybe he forgot he was supposed to pick someone?
True enough. There's no vacancy. But that shouldn't stop him Paterson from naming someone, especially given that there's a 100% chance that Clinton will become SoS.
I think Paterson is still weighing the costs and benefits of various alternatives (not in the way Blagoyevich did, one would hope; but he wants to help his own future career as Governor and therefore the support of key Dems in the state is important to him).
Patterson has specifically said he will not name anyone until Hillary has been confirmed as SoS.
While Kennedy's popularity is declining, there's still quite a bit of pressure to name another woman, preferably from upstate -- that would probably be Gillibrand.
I agree that something strange is going on. Biden's replacement is already known although he hasn't resigned yet. Salazar and Obama are 2 different cases I guess...
I believe that Paterson doesn't want to appoint Kennedy. He is waiting for the inertia to die. He'll name Cuomo or someone completely different, but not Kennedy.
It would be extremely bad form to announce fill a vacancy before the vacancy actually exists.
But more frightening is the prospect of Andrew Cuomo in the U.S. Senate. He was a total disgrace as HUD Secretary under Clinton. His monumental ego and self-centeredness helped destroy moral, not only among professionals at HUD, but also among housing professionals and advocates. HUD languished under his watch. He demonstrated his incompetence and his self-focus every day. He may have been the only HUD Secretary ever to enter a meeting room with majestic music blaring to announce his arrival (you had to see it to believe it).
Andrew Cuomo's only interest is Andrew Cuomo, not this nation, and certainly not the public. Hopefully Governor Patterson has somebody else in mind for the appointment.
In all honesty though, I'm not surprised her support tanked since every news organization echoed the what can she do besides fundraiser mantra being perpetuated from her opponents and from the RNC partisan hacks who HATE fundraisers of the other party, and especially hate the Kennedy name for whatever God awful reason.
Considering some of the do nothings of Congress I'd say give anyone a chance in there to maybe do some good unless of course they have a Criminal record or are borderline insane. I mean heck, if you agree with her positions she's laid out recently, maybe having some fresh blood in there would do some good to vitalize the almost night of the living dead feeling that emanates from the halls of Congress at times.
How about someone start perpetuating some negative Cuomo press out there for a week straight and see how well he fairs in the polls. Get an army of talking heads on the cable news networks for a few days straight and I bet you'd see a reversal.
I support Kennedy's stands on the issues, so it hasn't been easy for me to express my opposition to her appointment. I have nothing against her personally.
I do feel a certain revulsion at the idea of primogeniture. Look at the Bush family. People voted for W based on name recognition, and that didn't work too well, did it? Hell, I voted for Obama largely as a reaction against electing people based on who they're related to.
This is not a monarchy. The Congress are not supposed to be landed gentry. They don't get to pass their titles down as an inheritance. The reason why we have elections and democracy is so the people choose their leaders, not to preserve dynasties.
Caroline Kennedy has no real qualifications for office. The only reason why anyone's even thinking about her as a serious candidate is not because of anything she has done or her positions, it's only because of her last name. This is absurd, it's anti-democratic, and it's wrong.
Enough with the political dynasties. Let,s elect/appoint people based on what they've done, not on who they're related to.
No more Kings.
After the Illinois situation, he needs to choose someone who really has experience and a resume that can justify the appointment without question. But he's still a Democrat, so he will have to think about who will ever be able to get reelected. Remember that who ever he appoints, will have to run for reelection in two years, and then again two years after that. In NY a campaign like that can cost upwards of $30 million which require someone with a good fund raising operation already in place. Lastly, this is Paterson, he's an outsider in the first place, I think he's going to choose to just surprise all of us and all the big names we are hearing may be completely passed up come January 21st.
I'm not sure how much stock to put in polls. I mean the polls said we'd have a Clinton vs. Guliani/Romney presidential race.
I doubt Patterson really wants to appoint Kennedy. My guess is he's been hoping for the Palin effect to claim Kennedy so that he can have free rein to appoint whom he will.
A Kennedy appointment speaks volumes about what's WRONG with America; an obsessive focus on personality as opposed to SUBSTANCE.
She's related to the Kennedy dynasty so in she goes!
As for Republicans they are worse! All they want is another Reagan.
Neither party seems to get it. It's about DEMOGRAPHICS, not personality these days.
You have to DO something because the electorate is changing, and the politics of political symbols won't cut it any more.
To carry on from the last thread, take Palin. She's supposed to be the savior of the Republican party.
But, she's only the latest conservative stalking horse, trying to shove the same crappy, worn-out policies down our throats by providing a prettier wrapper.
Only we don't WANT the same old crap warmed over: tax-cuts for the rich, increase the defense budget, foreign wars abroad and job loss at home, privatize social security and turn America into another 3rd world country where only the rich can afford health care, and nobody has job security except the top 1%.
America has decisively rejected these policies, because the electorate is growing more and more black, Latino, Asian, other, single-women, and the young. All the most vulnerable elements of society have banded together, and to nobody's surprise but the right-wingers, we form a majority!
And that majority is going to increase more and more with time. Ronald Reagan himself couldn't win now, because the "Reagan coalition" has largely died out.
They voted for McCain in huge numbers last year, but they were massively outvoted. The aging boomers, and the angry white working-classs male has had their day and nobody gives a damn any more what Joe the Plummer thinks!
Patterson should approach Jon Stewart about taking the seat.
Franken and Stewart 2016
Fey and Franken 2016.
People seem to be ignoring the comment, so I will repeat it:
Paterson has stated clearly and specifically that he will not name a replacement for Senator Clinton until after she has been confirmed as Secretary of State and resigned from the Senate.
O/T, but
Hot damn. Look who's now writing a column for Esquire.
Tom Chiarella and Nate Silver? It just doesn't get any better.
Not worn well? Has the media
vetted Cuomo in any real fashion? Or Maloney? Or anyone else for that matter? With the same intensity and pettiness? Has CK been in a position to really push back without seeming to be inappropriately campaigning for the position? Damned if she, damned is she doesn't. Just plain damned. She hasn't worn well - well she's had to fight with two hands tied behind her back - no one wears well under those circumstances.
I only want to reiterate what claimin true has said.
It is a little presumptuous to name a replacement when there is no opening. To do so would be to assume Clinton will be accepted. Even those in the Senate who would tend to vote for Clinton might feel miffed if you take actions on the assumption about how you will vote. As soon as the Senate approves Clinton, it would be appropriate to name a replacement, no matter when that appointment takes effect.
Biden's case is different. Though he has not yet vacated the seat, he has already been "approved" by the public and again by the Electoral College, and it is not at all presumptuous to name a replacement in this case, since a vacancy in the near future is assured.
I'm in upsate NY, and I'm hearing rumors that it could be Congressman Steve Israel.
http://israel.house.gov/?sectionid=2§iontree=2
C.B.,
The central argument against Kennedy's appointment is that she has never held public office and never made a name for herself in her own right. She is running entirely on her family name. She is literally Mz. A. Generic Kennedy, Esq.
Cuomo comes from a dynasty too, in that his Dad was a highly influential and popular Governor of New York. Unlike Caroline, Andrew Cuomo has held public office. He has done something to distinguish himself other than just his family name.
The press isn't going to wallop him as hard for the same reason they didn't wallop John Roberts int he same way they did Harriet Meyers. The fact is, one of them seems less like nepotism than the other.
Frankly, I'd rather see Gillibrand win the seat than either of them. She's new, but she's ^roven she can win a campaign with very little money and almost zero party support, and of all things as a write-in candidate, which never happens.
She's also been dynamic and exciting as a Representative. She seems to have an instinct for politics and has developed surprisingly rapidly. new York would be better served by Gillibrand than either of the two aristocrats.
Paterson is going to need all the help he can get in 2010. He might be popular now, but he's going to have to raise taxes and cut services, as well as beg the federal government for aid, just to balance the budget. Kennedy hooks him up to massive fundraising capacity, plus brings Obama to New York to campaign for both of them in 2010.
Kennedy played it wrong at the start. Her attempt at an inevitability strategy ended up making it look like Paterson was boxed in and had no choice. The fastest way NOT to get what you want in politics is to demand it, loudly and in public. Paterson would have looked very weak naming her immediately. Instead, Paterson has spent the last few weeks asserting his independence, and making it look like there is a real process going on.
http://wiserthanthecrowd.blogspot.com
I like Caroline Kennedy. And you know what? If Hillary Clinton's position as First Lady was considered significant experience, then Caroline Kennedy's proximity to several of the century's most influential politicians surely can count, too. She's seen up close and personal countless political and legislative battles in a way that most prospective Senators have never experienced. She's shy and she doesn't give off the smarmy but effective "politicky" vibe, but she's smart, thoughtful, right on the issues, and she knows the Senate much more intimately than Cuomo or any of the other possible Paterson picks.
Kennedy deserves the job, and this media hacking away at her while giving a free pass to other potentials needs to stop.
Well, my guess would be that he's got this thing and it's bleeping golden, and he's not... he's not going to give it away for just nothing.
Oh, sorry, wrong state!
MJ,
Clinton's position as First Lady was not seen as significant experience. She lost, remember?
Whatever happened to the idea of naming a placeholder Senator? If Caroline Kennedy or Andrew Cuomo or any of the other potential appointees mentioned are really good enough to have this seat, they can fight for it in a Democratic (and democratic) primary next year.
w.v. - soadie: in the South, we call it coke, but elsewhere it's called soadie pop.
Clinton's position as First Lady was not seen as significant experience. She lost, remember?
I'd say MJ is referring to experience for the Senate seat. Apples to apples.
@ statler
Clinton's stint as first lady was ABSOLUTELY considered as significant experience.
She was a shitty candidate, with shitty advisors though. That's why she lost
WV: Vegnitin; Cognition for veggies.
I liked Cuomo's dad (a fellow Italian-American from New York) and remember he was head of HUD under Clinton, but I heard that he totally sucked as HUD Commissioner from friends still in NY. He's smart to have stayed as under the radar as possible for a state AG.
Andrea: You should have made a joke about Paterson not seeing the Kennedy backlash coming. ;)
Statler re your points about nepotism: But, if you voted for Obama over Hillary in large part (and that was your implication) because of his last name being fairly new to politics, then isn't that exactly the same as voting for Clinton because of her last name? President Obama has many things going for him - and almost all of them (and certainly all of the major ones) are unrelated to his appearance or his name.
It's one of the things I've found hypocritical from some on the left - a condemnation of people just because of who they're related to. In 2000, I wouldn't have considered W a horrible person just because he was the son of a former president, and likewise - even though this isn't my state but my neighbor, I refuse to condemn Kennedy just because she's related to famous people.
In short, while - yeah - appointing someone from a famous family can be nepotism, I don't think that's always the case, and I don't also think that politicians should go out of the way to find the candidate least attached to the Beltway establishment to demonstrate how edgy they are. (See Palin, Sarah L. Remember the halcyon days when she was rumored as a pick and the left wasn't vomiting in disgust?)
(In due discretion, position-wise I've never agreed with W, though in '00 I was too young to vote. I'm probably more apt to agree with Kennedy on her positions, though.)
You know, ummm, Caroline ummm, uhhh Kennedy is a very, you know, ummm, capasble, ummm woman. I ummm think Patterson will, you know, name her ummm for that Senate you know seat, ummm, uhh . . . .
And she's awafully articulate as well!
Not to mention "clean".
Do you think Patterson might name Tim Geithner for HRC's Senate seat? I suspect if the Congress does the right thing this tax cheat will have a lot of time on his hands soon!
How fugging hard is it to figure out you owe Social Security taxes? Does it really take seven years to figure it out?
I mean come on! What a crook and the world seems poised to swallow it.
Our only salvation? Fox News!
Analysis of Geithner Tax Problem
Geithner's tax situation cannot be viewed as an "honest mistake."
- He worked for the IMF as a contract employee from 2001 to 2004.
- He did not pay Social Security or Medicare taxes when he filed his income tax during those years.
- He claimed the mistake was due to the fact that he was issued W2 forms instead of 1099 forms by the IMF. But W2 forms have boxes labeled "Social security tax withheld" and "Medicare tax withheld." Geithner's would have had 0 in those boxes for those years. Sort of hard to miss when you're filing your taxes, especially since Geithner signed a statement that he was aware he would be responsible for his own SS and Medicare tax while he worked for the IMF.
- A 2006 IRS audit discovered that he had neglected to pay the SS and Medicare taxes for the years 2003 and 2004, which he then paid. But at that point (2006) he would have been completely aware (if he wasn't earlier) that he SHOULD have paid them for 2002 and 2001 as well, the other years he worked for the IMF. Instead, he didn't pay them until right before his nomination was announced in December 2008.
Geithner's not stupid and he didn't make a mistake. He's petty, greedy,and unscrupulous, as confirmed by the fact that he counted overnight summer camps toward his dependent child care credit in 2001, 2004, and 2005. Not only was this not allowed, but Geithner can well afford to pay taxes on the cost of his kids' summer camp. He was simply nickel and diming the federal government for which he now hopes to administrate tax collection.
Sec. of the Treasury is responsible for the IRS and the implementation of the tax code. It's obvious to me and I hope other honest taxpayers that Geithner's tax history and what it tells us about him should disqualify him from being considered for that responsibility.
On the subject of Patterson generally he is reminding ME more and more of Mayor David Dinkins another failed example of affirmative action not at work.
bob grant famously referred to Dinkins as "the washroom attendant" and I must say it was quite apt. Still with Patterson's disability, I don't think I'd want him fumbling around in any men's room trying to hand out towels or brushing off my coat!
Did you catch that hilarious skit on SNL making fun of his blindness?
LOL
Youdda thought he had a kid who had a baby out of wedlock that her mother then claimed as her own! Now THAT is FUNNY!
What do you have against Caroline, Nate? Cuomo is an empty suit.
If it's not Kennedy, it better not be Cuomo either.
Don't argue about Geithner to us, Pete. Write to the Republican Senators that seem to have no problem with him:
"I don't think I see enough in there to cause a problem," said Republican panel member John Ensign. "I think the mistakes that he made were pretty honest mistakes."
OKIES ARE PATRIOTIC!!! KILL THE GAYS!!!! DESTROY THE MUSLIM TERRORIST EXTREMIST ATHEIST HUSSEIN!!!!!!
PALIN/KEYES 2012!!!
KEYES/BACHMANN 2020!!!
BACHMANN/MUSGRAVE 2028!!!
Shouldn't a threat against the President-Elect be reported to the FBI/Secret Service?
Nice try lib, I meant destroy as in IMPEACH. Stop trying to twist my words, fake American! They'd never find me in my ol log cabin in cimarron county, ok anyway.
HUSSEIN is a MUSLIM EXTREMIST TERRORIST!!!
I am less worried about Geithner's personal income tax compliance than this:
Geithner's risky oversight of Citigroup
-Records show Geithner eased the reins as the company blew billions on subprime mortgages and other risky deals.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17437.html
Given that Obama is neither a muslim, terrorist, extremist nor atheist, I doubt anything would stick, Opus. And if it did, Pete apparently has a pretty strong Hinckley defense.
Sean posted:
"In NY a campaign like that can cost upwards of $30 million which require someone with a good fund raising operation already in place."
I disagree. Democrats are very dominant in statewide elections in New York nowadays. No Democratic candidate who isn't a complete joke will have any trouble with fundraising, nor with winning a general election.
For the record, I do not support the SELECTION of Caroline Kennedy. I'd be fine with her RUNNING for an open seat and trying to prove herself to the voters in a primary, but don't believe she merits appointment, with all the more experienced candidates who could be selected. However, I won't hold that against her if she IS selected and does well. I suspect most New Yorkers will have a similar attitude.
The sock puppet PeteKent is back!
Trust only the PeteKent on TypePad.
I think the Republicans are being jerks for going along with this guy and Kennyb is absoutely right: Geithner is part of the problem, not the solution!
SCREW YOU SOCKPUPPET LIBERAL.
OKLAHOMA = REAL AMERICA
EVERYWHERE ELSE IS UNPATRIOTIC
GOD BLESS OKLAHOMA!!
"It's one of the things I've found hypocritical from some on the left - a condemnation of people just because of who they're related to.
In 2000, I wouldn't have considered W a horrible person just because he was the son of a former president, and likewise - even though this isn't my state but my neighbor, I refuse to condemn Kennedy just because she's related to famous people."
Well, Chris, that might be one of the LEAST convincing arguments I've heard in a long while!
You wouldn't consider Bush a horrible person because he got the job of President of the U.S. through nepotism?
Was there ever a worse president? The rest of us DID think Bush was going to be a disaster back in 2000, although I admit that like everybody else I underestimated how truly horrible he would ultimately become.
It's like trying to predict the reign of Adolph Hitler. No imagination could predict all the misery and disaster in advance.
But, the complete and total incompetence of Bush was obvious from the beginning. His bullet headed stupidity and lack of INTEREST in the details of governing were clear.
Kennedy isn't remotely like Bush, but he's poisoned the well. We simply cannot appoint people based on their families.
This is NOT an aristocracy, although the Villagers keep acting as though only the elite matters.
These are profoundly ANTI-democratic times we are living in. 1/2 the country still wants an elected dictator -- so long as he's not named Bush. 1/3 of the public STILL stubbornly think Bush was right! No matter how savage the beating from the master's hand they receive they never learn.
I hope Patterson has enough sense to appoint someone else. If Kennedy wants the job let her run in a primary for it like anybody else.
The real problem seems to be that everyone with financial expertise and government experience was part of the problem.
I just hope they learned more from their past failures than George Bush and his administration.
You liberals HATE America for voting in a boot lickin commie muslim like osama!!
@Kennyb
The real problem seems to be that everyone with financial expertise and government experience was part of the problem.
I would like to put forth that being part of the problem is inconsistent with financial expertise, given what we now know. While at one time those who were in power and contributed to the problem could have accurately been called experts, I am not so sure that label can still readily be applied.
Kennedy might make a perfectly fine Senator, but her lack of poise in this interview certainly does not help her case. Though here's a take on why the interview came off so badly. Maybe she just hasn't been under media scrutiny long enough to have "untrained" that linguistic habit.
It's a fair point, Markl, but do we really want a financial neophyte trying to solve, or contribute to solving, this economic crisis? I mean, I am trustworthy and pay my taxes (and don't even HAVE a nanny, let alone a nanny-problem), but I don't know a derivative from a stock option.
I wonder if Cuomo would still be leading Kennedy in polling if he had been subject to the same kind of media speculation and scrutiny as she has. Is there any way to test for this kind of effect, Nate?
Note that I'm not in the "blame the media" crowd. But if we're going to tell Governor Patterson to make a decision based on polling data, it's important that the polling be put in proper context.
Kennedy, Cuomo - both are reasonably acceptable as reliable fairly progressive DEMs to replace Hill
and either would have to stand for election in 2010 on their own merits
so I just consider it a 2 year placeholder appointment like Burris
Kennedy would still have to prove she has the chops & the desire for the job or else NY can replace her
biggest arguement against Kennedy ?
dynasty...
same goes for Cuomo, no ?
under the circumstances, I am fine with Patterson giving the nod to Kennedy - especially since Ted is most likely not gonna be around all that much longer
if she doesn't work out, Obama could find a nice position for her in his government which would allow Caroline to step aside in 2010 with grace
win/win
Cugel:
I don't believe someone's name constitutes a qualification in any sense, but neither do I believe it constitutes a DISqualification. The fact that Robert F. Kennedy's brother had already been President in no way made Robert F. Kennedy unqualified, and had he not been assassinated, I believe he might have been a great President.
The issue to me is NOT Caroline Kennedy's name but her lack of experience. She should either run in an open primary or try for some lower office first. She hasn't even had experience in any full-time APPOINTED office, if I'm not mistaken.
I see some of the usual are still about.
The Governor will name Kennedy Friday or Saturday following HC's confirmation as SoS and her resignation from the Senate.
Tim Geithner looks like the kind of employee that does not bite the hand that is feeding him. If keeping his job depends on looking the other way- he'll probably look the other way. If on the other hand his job depend on having every i dotted and t crossed- he'll be up all night dotting is and crossing ts.
Obama picked him for his work ethic and the ability to do what he is told to do. As such he will probably functions as a very effective regulator-if that is in fact what Obama wants him to be.
wv- comenc- let the greening comenc
DCM, why is Ted Kennedy relevant in a discussion of whether Caroline Kennedy should be appointed Senator from New York? All Kennedys are interchangeable or something? I don't think so. Heck, even identical twins are different from each other. To give another example, do you think Evan Bayh is politically the same as Birch Bayh was? Not on your life!
my newest pet peeve
is it just me or...
has anyone else noticed how overly staged & produced every Obama 'event' has continued to be 'produced' ???
yeah, I know they did it during the campaign for visual messaging...
but comeon, let things be a little more natural & 'real' now
for instance, what is with this over-abundance of heavily starched & pressed american flags behing the podium or Obama seated at EVERY SINGLE photo op ???
dozens of anally symetric triangular flags that do not lay naturally OR move with the breeze
it just looks so 'fake' & 'staged', especially indoors
real flags do not look like that - they only look like that in 'HOMELAND'/ lizard people countries that over-manage their messaging which you cannot believe what they say...
just saw it again behind Obama & Biden seated as they talked on MSNBC about the military, and in every staged event over the past few months
expect to see it again behind Obama & his new best bud Rick Warren next Tuesday...
makes me cringe since it is so unauthentic & unnatural - something I expect from Bush & Cheney...
fwiw
DCM:
I have been thinking the same thing. His events look so staged that theya re starting to look like sets on Saturday Night Live, trying oh so hard to look Presidential.
I understand that Obama is focus grouping his Stimulus plan, testing it like it is the latest laundry detergent.
Bill Clinton used polls and was never able to cobble together amajority to vote for him or support his policies. Obama seems to be suffering from the same disease.
I honestly think y'all gonna find this guy is out of his depth.
WV: "huslam": Hustled by a Moslem.
MICHAEL
you ask why is Ted K relevant ?
in fact, he is not per se BUT
do you not believe that it is in the country's best interest to have senators step down when they become impaired - whether by health or age or both - before they die in office ?
Ted has been a great advocate for many years [even though he only got the job due to the family name & a placeholder]
his prognosis is grim - apparently at most 12-18 months & maybe much less since it is considered terminal
I believe Ted would find it easier to resign with dignity before death & allow a structured planned appointment in MA if another Kennedy was in the senate to carry on his legacy perhaps - even if only for the next 2 years...
wish a bunch of other DEM senators would also do the right thing, including Byrd, and step aside now while the conditions to replace them with vital candidates are favorable
fwiw
DCM,
The fact that Kent is agreeing with you should tell you something. "FWIW," I don't think anyone cares about some petty sniping from losers on the internet. If Obama were "looser" and more "natural," you guys would be bitching pointlessly about "a lack of respect for the office."
APE
your name says it all
such a petty loser - you fail
fwiw
it was not 'bitching'
it is called 'commenting' or constructive criticism
I was not complaining about Obama - the comment was directed toward his continuing campaign production values management team
get a grip...
Cugel, you missed my point. Entirely.
Based independently of whatever President Bush has done - in effect, taking him on his last name and a couple of flubbed interviews, just like Caroline Kennedy - I would not be screaming, "HE'S EVIL HE SHOULD NOT EVEN BE CONSIDERED WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU FOR EVEN SPEAKING HIS NAME." It was his actions that pretty much caused me to write him off as hopeless. Yes, even dating back to the recount, which was an embarrassing circus to watch in high school.
Perhaps I should have used someone who hadn't fucked up as thoroughly as our current Commander-in-Chief. But my point was less that I think Bush is a good guy and more that his actions stand on their own merits. (Of which they're admittedly lacking.)
Conversely, I'd like to see Caroline screw up a bit more than going "Um, y'know I mean y'know" before dismissing her. (Likewise, though Palin's "alsos" and word salads/McCain's "my friends" are ripe for mockery - just like Kennedy's verbal tics are - I don't think that they necessarily are dealbreakers for me at least. Though admittedly, "My fellow prisoners" will never stop being funny.)
Of course, I probably should have just typed "BUCK FUSH" in bold 24-point font and avoided this whole headache, but whatever.
...I meant "WERE" in the case of our friendly GOP candidates for the presidency.
I still stand by most of the rest of what I said, though.
DMC-
What do you think of the staging on the Change.gov videos.
http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/inside_the_transition_office_of_public_liaison/
This montage from the meeting of GBTL (or LBTG) leaders somehow did not include any reference to Warren or Robinson- hum?
Hey man, just some "constructive criticism," no need to get your feeding tube in a knot.
New Hampshire news:
CONCORD, N.H. -- New Hampshire Gov. John Lynch is emphatically squelching speculation he will run for the U.S. Senate in 2010.
Lynch said Wednesday he isn't interested in being a senator and is going to focus on being governor. He would not say if he plans to run for a fourth term as governor.
Democratic U.S. Reps. Carol Shea-Porter and Paul Hodes have been mentioned as possible challengers to Republican Sen. Judd Gregg. Gregg has said he intends to run for re-election.
http://www.wmur.com/politics/18480261/detail.html
Hodes has said he is considering it and is thought to be interested.
MHZ
I was not aware of those videos, but I am viewing them now in another window.
The LGBT staging is terrible lighting & bland staging - but at least they are making a belated effort ???
too little, too late in many regards [although at least the Robinson choice for the Lincoln Memorial gig is a gesture]
The Youth video is better staged & edited
but I have quit monitoring the Obama sites for the past month
and I am very disappointed to be continually email spammed by Team Obama for more donations almost every day & sometimes several times each day
give me a break until they actually do something to prove I should consider donating any more money - and what do they need it for anyway ???
DMC-You might be interested in this one too?
http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/open_for_questions_round_2_response/
At the very end Gibbs promises that they will get rid of DADT.
Off topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Terrorism/Story?id=6645453&page=1
Cheney Rejects Accusation of Gitmo Torture
Susan J. Crawford, who was named by Defense Secretary Robert Gates to serve as the convening legal authority of military commissions, told the Washington Post that the treatment of Guantanamo detainee Mohammed al Qahtani "met the legal definition of torture." Crawford said she decided to dismiss the charges against Qahtani because he had been tortured.
***
When asked about Crawford's contention that Qahtani was tortured, Cheney said it was an inaccurate conclusion.
***
"When the head of the military commissions declares that charges against a 9/11 conspirator had to be dropped because we tortured him, the need for a bipartisan commission to bring the facts to light -- and for a special prosecutor to ensure accountability -- can no longer be denied," Conyers said in a statement.
I have to say I fully agree with Conyers here. I had nodded when I heard Obama say on This Week that we have to look forward, not backwards, but it's pretty clear to me that, for the sake of clarity and open government, we need to know what the hell went on here. After all, this was alleged to be the 20th hijacker, and the charges against him were dismissed because the head of military commissions says he was tortured. The Vice President says he was not tortured. This needs someone to sort it out.
mhz, that was reported on CNN this morning, too, BTW.
OT - How does one get Intrade to post an opening bid/ask on whether Norm Coleman's Great Minnesota Senate Election Trial of 2009 makes it past Franken's motion to dismiss?
yeah, I heard that about DADT
would be nice to hear it from Gates or Obama himself or the joint chiefs...
then there is DOMA...
looks like the courts will have to do all the heavy lifting there...
OK, THIS is the guy I want Obama to listen to. Fascinating...
http://www.newsweek.com/id/178811/page/1
Robert Shiller forecast the credit crisis for the right reasons, and has a novel idea for how to fix it.
***
The solution, says Shiller, is to use derivatives to allow home-owners—and, by extension, lenders—to insure themselves against falling prices.
DCM,
Re: the flags.
I've noticed that the number of flags behind Obama is far fewer than behind just about any RepubliCANT candidate or office holder. Take a look at the campaign photos when McCain was campaigning - a dozen or two flags, if not more. Obama almost always has two to six flags, almost always no more than that.
You have to remember that there is a certain segment of the population that will support the Commander in Chief ONLY if there are a lot of flags. No flags, they go looking for problems to complain about, and try to actually CAUSE problems.
When Pat Quinn becomes Governor of Illinios within a next month or so. Pat Quinn(IL) and David Paterson(NY)will both run for a first full term in 2010 and seek re-election in 2014 and retire in 2018. Since Lisa Madigan(IL)and Andrew Cuomo(NY)are more interested in running for Governor than the US Senate. They can run for re-election for their State Attorney General position in 2010 and 2014 then run for Governor in 2018.
C.B. is EXACTLY right: there's been no place for kennedy to go in the polls except down so of course that's what's happened. She'll make a damn fine senator. If she's even half as competent as her uncle Teddy that'll put her in the upper 10 percentile in that august body.
Either Caroline Kennedy or Andrew Cuomo would be mistakes invoking monarchism. Give the seat to Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand, who has the experience, has the know-how, has the grit, and frankly has the potential to run for president in eight or twelve years if her profile gets a boost.
@kennyB
I do not have any type of television reception-no CNN no msNBC and sadly no PBS- I have to wait to watch RMS. So I like the Obama site. I got to watch his economic address in full- most of the mini-pressers are there too. As of yet no-one has thrown a shoe at him. True it took Bush 8 years to be awarded that honor.
As for the question, Patterson is waiting for Hillary to resign.
As for the excitement about Shiller derivatives, it's another form of insurance that homeowners won't buy unless they're forced too, and they can't afford it. So it's a great idea with no money to pay for it.
Hate to bring this up, but you have to wonder whether David Patterson himself would ever have gotten his foot in the NY State political door years ago if his dad hadn't been Manhattan political kingpin Basil Patterson, one of Charlie Rangel's famous "Harlem Gang of Four".
So of course he'd have no problem with either Kennedy or Cuomo.
Face it. This is the future of democracy. Does anyone doubt that Obama's daughters will follow a few years behind Chelsea to Capitol Hill one day? You know, after Jeb's first term in the Oval Office has concluded.
I still think he should name Mario Cuomo as a placeholder. He's respected and brilliant and would provide the celebrity New Yorkers seem to crave, with the competence the Senate needs during this critical session. Let Kennedy et al. fight it out in a primary for 2010 (haven't we learned by know that hard fought primaries strengthen good candidates?).
The risk is that he could be seen to be angling for his son's succession (but since Paterson doesn't want a primary challenge from Andrew, he might think that was a benefit). At least the voters get a say.
Worst case scenario, Mario decides he likes being in the Senate and we get stuck with another septagenarian Senator... not the biggest disaster.
Speaking about nepotism or political dynasties, I'm ready to start campaigning for Michelle Obama in 2016.
I'd be delighted to see Gillibrand in the seat, too. The only reason Kennedy and Cuomo were seen as "front-runners" for the appointment was that they've been promoting themselves. As I'm not a New Yorker, I don't have any personal stake in it, but Gillibrand has made a name for herself purely on her positions, and her constituents seem to like her.
How did sockpuppet PeteKent get through the comment moderation?
wv: 'ingles'. No joke.
Oh. There is no comment moderation anymore. Boo.
Paterson isn't an outsider; he's a member of the Harlem political machine--which doesn't mean he's corrupt or incompetent (I think he's neither)--but it does mean that he's savvy about appointments. He's not exactly elected himself, is he? So he has to build political capital.
He might appoint someone from upstate, or a placeholder; he might appoint Andrew Cuomo to get him out of Albany. (I don't think Cuomo did such a bad job at HUD, and I'd support him for the Senate. My own choice would be Liz Holtzman, & given Paterson's interest in promoting women, I think she has a shot.) No sensible NY public official would treat Caroline Kennedy dismissively or discourteously--she has earned that much. But she's got no credentials, and junior Senator from a major state like NY is not an entry-level job. So I'll be surprised if he chooses her. I like her well enough on her own merits to hope that she's run for the House of Reps, or City Council, or state elective office. It's reasonable for her to use her name and legacy to jumpstart a political career; but not the Senate. The fact that Illinois got stuck with a hack by their malicious, delusional governor is no excuse for NY to get anything less than someone with experience, tested policy positions, and mad dealmaking skillz.
DCM in Florida:
"do you not believe that it is in the country's best interest to have senators step down when they become impaired - whether by health or age or both - before they die in office ?"
If a senator is performing effectively, I don't care how old s/he is, and age per se does not impair the ability to think - that's a prejudice. Health is another issue, but I would suggest to you that the NATURE of the health problems matters. I have a friend who has had AIDS for years, yet is able to work full time in an office and also perform a few solo recitals every year at a high level. If you believe that people with chronic health conditions, for example, should retire from the Senate because they can't possibly do the work, we are in disagreement. And it's no disaster if a senator dies a natural death while in office. Why would you deny people the right to do what they love, if the voters continue to elect them and they are up to the job?
And I still fail to see what that has to do with Caroline Kennedy. If you think Ted Kennedy is inclined to quit now that he has a chance to lead the fight for national health insurance, I want you to provide evidence.
The Senate is not made up of 100 superstars. The legislative branch is not the executive branch. So all the emphasis on needing a superstar is a bit much. Another Teddy Kennedy wouldn't be bad, but he's about the only superstar in the Senate. And he got there through his relationship with JFK.
Congress needs lots of liberal politicians who can vote for a liberal agenda, raise lots of money to keep themselves in office, have enough sense to keep out of strange restrooms and their money out of their freezers, and be able to campaign a little.
So far Caroline Kennedy seems just fine to me. Cuomo seems a bit of a diva. I like Caroline Kennedy because she is modest. That is a quality missing in our politicians of late.
I would be flabbergasted if Liz Holtzman were appointed. She ran against Javits and D'Amato in 1980 and lost, mostly because Javits siphoned off the votes of some Democrats, but her failure led to 3 terms of D'Amato in the Senate. Later, when campaigning for reelection as New York City Comptroller in 1993, she was implicated in a scandal involving Fleet Bank that led to an appearance of impropriety and caused her to lose. And that was the last time she had an elective position. She's been pretty invisible since then.
STepper, if Caroline Kennedy were modest, she wouldn't want to be a senator.
Robert Byrd [WV] is already 91 & in poor health, usually unable to actually perform his senatorial duties...
as President Pro Tempore of the Senate, Byrd will be 3rd in line of succession to become POTUS after Biden & Pelosi...
and he still has 4 years left on his current term
that is sad & scary
That's an easy one, Nate Silvermember. He's waiting for wankdwarf to stop commenting.
Hi all PeteKents!
DCM: you know what else is sad and scary: statler wankdwarf!
CRAPO
SnW is neither sad nor scary imho...
unless he runs out of Franzia - then all bets are off !!!
otherwise I find his comments are often piquant with an edgy nose - even though on occassion there might be a bitter ending...lol
DCM, two things:
(1) Would it be any better if Byrd were 41, in failing health, and unable to perform his duties? It's not his age per se that's an issue.
(2) The Supreme Court has faced similar problems. They tend to eventually persuade non-feasant justices to retire, but there's never certainty in life, and that's the way it is.
@Michael - Caroline Kennedy is modestly seeking the job. It's the hubristic blowhards who spend their whole lives preparing for positions like that which concern me.
More power to Caroline, I say. One less lifetime politician sucking at the government teat.
Sometimes it's not nepotism. Often, it's simply the Family Business.
It's not unusual for people to follow in their parents' footsteps. My dad was an engineer; I'm an engineer. What do you think Kiefer Sutherland's, Drew Barrymore's, and Charlie Sheen's parents did? Have you ever heard of Eli and Peyton Manning? And what business do you think Marie and Pierre Curie's child went into?
So for some people, politics is the Family Business. Not just for the Kennedys, but the Adamses, Harrisons, Rockefellers, and Tafts. Ain't nobody forced to vote for them.
Look, if Caroline gets named to the Senate, it's for two years only. Big ol' BFD. If New York elects her in '10, good for her. If we don't, then she'll fade back into obscurity. In either case, it's not exactly a scandal.
@ STepper
Congress needs lots of liberal politicians who can vote for a liberal agenda
At this point in our history,this is by far the most important quality in a prospective senator.We have to reverse 8 years of criminal and incredibly inept leadership and we have to do it ASAP.The list of "musts" is long.We need every vote.
Things like 2010 electability pales in significance when compared to the urgent need to realize (and yes,liberalize) Obama's program now!
Remember that who ever he appoints, will have to run for reelection in two years, and then again two years after that.
Senator's terms last 6 years, not 2 Sean.
There are other candidates besides Cuomo and Kennedy in consideration.
Kennedy suffers because she publicly announced her interest in the position and applied alot of pressure via the media on Patterson. If Patterson appoints her, he will look like a puppet. His own electoral prospects are not strong at the moment, especially after the tax hikes, which much have Upstate NY in a tizzy right now.
Cuomo is a strong contender for the Democratic primary. This is the reason pundits have been stating that Patterson will appoint him, to keep him out of the gubernatorial race. The problem being that if he does so, it will LOOK like he's only appointing Cuomo to avoid taking him on in the primary.
It's one thing to be weak. It's another to loudly proclaim that you are weak. That's just chum for the sharks.
My picks? Daniel O'Donnell, Byron Brown, and Tim Mains.
None of these people are bluebloods. They're politicians that have distinguished themselves at the local and state levels of government, who are familiar with issues affecting working men and women in New York because they themselves have been in that position themselves.
I cannot support Kennedy because I find primogeniture disgusting on a deep personal level. Nobody should inherit power as a birthright. The whole point of the American Revolution was to get away from that, to establish government whose leaders were there to represent the common man, not because they won the birth lottery.
All of our worst sins as a society have been based on the idea that things other than personal merit have been allowed to be determining factors in an individual's success. All too often, merit has not even been a consideration. I reject the idea that there is any greater measure of human worth than merit. Indeed, it is the only measure that means anything.
When we allow determinants so arbitrary and mean as race, gender, primogeniture, inherited wealth, sexuality or religious beliefs to figure into the political equation, we pervert the system so badly as to break it irreparably. We become divided along lines that have no real meaning. We weaken ourselves as a nation and become the shame of our descendants. We must not continue in behavior that has only served to destroy us, time and time again.
Governor Patterson, I have no idea if you read FiveThirtyEight or not, and I kinda doubt you pay any attention to the comments section. Unless you enjoy the incoherent rants of Mule Rider and Company, in which case you have far worse problems than governing New York to cope with. But if you do, may I plead with you to appoint someone that has distinguished themselves through their work, and not merely their bloodline. I think we can both agree that the conditions of one's birth are no marker of one's talent or capacity to lead.
Let us now hope for an end to kings and queens and aristocracy.
Rivier, that's so well stated. Yes, continuing the family profession.
STepper, I couldn't disagree more. What takes arrogance is to campaign for appointment to a job you spent NO time preparing for. Why, she didn't even VOTE for several elections. That said, anyone who campaigns for the Senate has to be somewhat prideful or at least exhibitionist.
Statler, you must want Paterson to fire himself, since he is following in his father's footsteps as a politician.
The three guys you want have very little name recognition. The guy from Manhattan is someone I've never heard of. I'm sure the Mayor of Buffalo has name recognition in Western New York, but the other two folks are pretty unviable.
As for Andrew Cuomo, selecting him wouldn't show Paterson was weak, because he is so clearly qualified, based on his experience.
Finally, it's not only Upstaters who are upset with Paterson's budget. We in the city don't like it, either.
@ Statler
Paterson can't read fivethirtyeight as he is legally blind.Hie speeches are all memorized beforehand.His hour-long State of the State speech last week required 60 hours of memorization.Quite a feat!
There are devices that allow the blind to surf the net, you know. And if I can 'read' an audiobook with my MP3 player, you can 'read' a webpage with the appropriate devices even if your sight is significantly impaired.
SnW
true about the blind surfing the net
and it is OK to say the word 'see' to a blind person [such as "can't you see that Palin is a dolt"...]
likewise you 'wrote' your blog comments - even if you technically typed it or perhaps you utilized a verbal software program to transcribe it for you since perhaps you are legally blind for all we know
or maybe you have terrible arthritis or are severely handicapped like Stephen Hawking...]
WV - daftleg [speaking of disabilities...]
@ David
Clinton's seat is up for election again in 2012, and appointing someone midterm doesn't "reset the clock."
Furthermore, New York law requires a Senator appointed midterm to run in a special election at the next available state election (which also doesn't reset the clock), meaning whoever gets put in this seat will have to run for reelection in 2010 and 2012 if they want to keep.
Ain't politics grand?
I have a couple of questions I know this smart group will be able to answer:
1. Does anyone know if Sen. Burris will be officially sworn in and voting later today on blocking the release of the $350 billion? Why is the media not talking about this?
Also, is this an issue that can be fillibustered? I also heard that the House may not have enough votes to release the funds.
I understand that Obama can veto in the end. Can someone review the exact protocol of voting?
If Obama doesn't get the $, then there is no point in celebrating an inauguration. Can someone reassure me that Obama is sure to win, even if he has to use his Veto?
2. Does someone have the composition (D/R) of the committees who will be voting on the Obama Cabinet? Are they using a ratio of 58/99 D/R as they should?? If so, then I can't imagine any Obama pick being rejected. However, I had read 10 days ago that they were still using the 2008 composition or certainly something less that 58/99 (which is 59% (Dem+Ind)?
The media sure isn't doing a good job, as usual, at these important details.
Regarding NY Senate: It seems that Paterson has to decide what will help him get reelected. If he chooses Cuomo, then Cuomo can't run against him, as expected otherwise. If he chooses Kennedy and she becomes a popular Senator, then Obama campaigns in NYS and he gets fundraising support and other advantages. Paterson is wise to wait until the last moment to decide.
As a New Yorker -- I default to Kennedy. All of the others mentioned have substantial experience in playing to the myriad micro-constituencies that dominate the New York political infrastructure: feminist groups, labor unions, Hispanics, African Americans, Catholics, upstaters, downstaters, urbanites, suburbanites, among a host of other distinct special interest "constituencies". The alternative to the laundry list of narrowcasting politics as usual in New York– would actually be Kennedy. She is not a slick, canned, career politician. And just after the country elected a president who disavowed compartmentalizing interests and ideologies, a Kennedy appointment would, ironically signal a shift away from crass, purely political expediency which is embedded in New York politics and government. David Paterson succeeded to the governor slot by deign of scandal – and in short order has defied expectations and shown strong leadership in exigent times – leadership that might not have been readily apparent when he served as State Senator. Perhaps Kennedy, -- who at least seems to be a somewhat sober, serious, and learned individual who lacks overt charisma and slickness, is maybe just who we need to represent New York's interests in the US Senate in this time of crisis and challenge. She s certainly wired to Obama -- and that can't hurt New York.
Jerry,
That,s the whole problem. If he selects one (Kennedy) he looks like a puppet. If he selects the other (Cuomo) he looks like he's afraid of something.
Neither is very good.
What about Eric Schneiderman? He wouldn't make a bad Senator at all. I mean, the worst that could happen is a bunch of jokes about Senator Spiderman, but if you have to be compared to a comic book character, there are worse ones.
And if you absolutely have your hearts set on picking someone based on name recognition, why not just go all the way and pick The Other Clinton?
At least then Congress can get Funky!
Jon Stewart slipped last night; It sounded like he said he couldn't be Senator because he'd end up cursing. Oh well.
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Paterson and Kennedy handled this process so bad they actually make Blagojevich's appointment of Burris look like smooth Democratic politics. See what I mean:
http://politic.ology.com/2009/01/22/the-new-york-senate-appointment-process-makes-illinois-look-gooda/
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