Granted, it's been an unusually active political weekend, but there's been surprisingly little reaction to today's news that Virginia Governor Tim Kaine will become chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
My first reaction is that this is all very ... predictable. Kaine was facing a very challenging set of circumstances if he wanted to continue to hold elected office: Virginia has an unusual law that prevents governors from serving consecutive terms (although Kaine could, theoretically, run again in 2013), and meanwhile, both of Virginia's Senate seats are now filled by Democrats, and relatively young ones at that. Kaine's political aspirations for at least the next four years, therefore, were going to be pretty much limited either to this particular job or to a position in Barack Obama's cabinet. Given that Kaine was one of the first politicians anywhere to jump on the Obama bandwagon, it's not surprising that he was paid back.
Kaine does strike me as being a pretty good fit for this position, though. He oozes a certain sort of optimistic sincerity that ought to play pretty well on television, where he's liable to be deployed ubiquitously on the Sunday Morning talk circuit, perhaps sometimes playing "good cop" to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. It seems probable that Kaine's role is going to be more about public relations than tactics, with the latter function to be fulfilled in large part by elements of the Obama apparatus itself.
The appointment will also give Kaine quite an opportunity to define himself as a candidate for national office, something that Kaine is plenty young enough to be thinking about.
1.04.2009
Tim Kaine Reportedly To Head DNC
by Nate Silver @ 8:51 PM...see also kaine
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Assuming you're right and Kaine is just a PR man, let's hope Obama's people advance Dean's work and build a party - not just an Obama machine.
If Kaine does half as good a job as Dean, I think I'll be pretty happy.
I agree it was predictable... Obama had planned that move for a while. He just needed to wait until Kaine was "desperate" enough to accept it. But it simply makes sense. Kaine is the right person for the job.
The first goal for Kaine is to help Democrats win the 2009 VA Governors Race.
In 2000 GWB selected Jim Gilmore for RNC chair- Gilmore was a lousy chairman of the RNC- Mark Warner was elected Governor of Virginia in 2001-
5th!
"ought to play pretty well on television"???
His state of the union rebuttal was pathetic, if not counterproductive.
The Eyebrow does not do well on TV.
By the way, who is going to become RNC chair in your opinion? The "establishment" seems to prefer one of the two black candidates, but I have a feeling that Chip Saltsman is going to make it because the Republican base probably wants a provocative figure after the rather invisible Mike Duncan.
I think that a token black guy at the top will do nothing to help them because the move is too obvious and simply can't compete with a democratic black president at the same time. The GOP should go with Saul Anuzis and try to avoid getting reduced to a Southern Party.
Does it matter that he's anti-choice? Just wondering...
Darn. Given the author here, my first reaction was, "What? KALINE to head DNC?"
wv: conism (belief in con artistry)
Does Reid know how to play "bad cop"?
As a Dem, I desperately hope the Republicans choose Saul Anuzis.
Michigan Republicans gerrymandered the state in 2002 to maintain a state legislature and US House majority. Since Anuzis took over there are now 67 Democrats in the state house out of 110. Democrats have an 8-7 US House majority.
Both Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow won their most recent election with a share of the vote greater than 55 percent. Jennifer Granholm beat a guy who spent 35 million dollars on his own campaign. The Michigan Senate is Republican by less than 15,000 votes. The Republicans couldn't even keep the state supreme court chief justice in office this year.
Don't forget John McCain won the Michigan Republican primary in 2000 while W had the support of John Engler, who promised him Michigan would be a "firewall". In this year's election McCain barely even competed in Michigan and Obama took the state's 17 electoral votes fairly easily.
The best Anuzis can claim is the state does have a Republican Secretary of State and Attorney General, which are easy offices for a so-called "independent" to ticket split and feel good about their independence.
If Anuzis can do for national Republicans what he did for Michigan's Republicans, I'd be mighty happy.
BTW I like Tim Kaine in that spot. It gives a nice appearance of moderation in a job very few non-junkies pay attention to. It's also a nice hat tip to a state that finally voted for a Democrat after 44 years.
This job turned out to be a dead-ender for Howard Dean, so I'm not sure Kaine will do better by it. A puzzling decision in my view. (Would he like to be Commerce Secretary?)
With the Illinois, Northeastern and Western slant of the cabinet, it is not a surprise to find Tim Kaine as DNC Chair.
This move does more than offer a great position for a politician that needs a place to hang his hat once he leaves the governor's mansion. It also is a strong indication of how seriously the national Democratic party wants to hold on to Virginia and North Carolina, along with possibly pulling West Virginia, Georgia and others into the presidential side for democrats in general and President-elect Obama in specific.
Lest anyone forget, the CNN split-screen before Senator Joe Biden was named as VP candidate also centered on the governor's mansion in Richmond.
Also, being there between now and 2012, Governor Kaine would be available for the inevitable second-term cabinet post that would open up, after successfully leading to an Obama victory in 2012.
STepper- The First Commerce Secretary's have been DNC Chairs or the President Elects former Campaign Manager.
Don Evans- 2001- was the Bush/Cheney 2000 Campaign Chairman.
Ron Brown- 1993- DNC chairman from 1989- played an important role getting Bubba elected in 1992.
Also, if we measure Howard Dean's work as DNC chair ONLY by how he got rewarded at the end, we start thinking like a certain governor from IL.
Senator John Kerry had a keynote speaker at the 2004 convention. Only political geeks and people from IL knew about Senator Obama before that speech. I think we will be calling that Senator PRESIDENT in 16 days, not that anyone is counting.
What is Senator Kerry doing right now? Oh yeah, he remains the junior senator from Massachusetts. I do not think he would have changed his 2004 decision at all if he knew there was no payout at the end.
Picking someone from a state that is slowling turning from red to purple to blue sends a supportive message to those of us working on the front lines in states that are in similar situations.
Many of us have been worried about whether the DNC would continue to try to expand the reach of the party or would revert to a bunker strategy of trying to hold on to the current seats. By naming somebody from a state in which the process of expanding the party is working, President-elect Obama has given an indication that the DNC will continue to invest in winning more territory for the Democratic Party.
According to Intrade, there is a 93% chance Franken will win, a 5% chance Coleman will win, and a .5% chance Other will win.
Who is this mysterious Other person, you ask? My guess is it's Blago the Terrible.
Blagojevich for Minnesota Senate! W00t w00t!
nkpolitics1279 said...
The First Commerce Secretary's have been DNC Chairs or the President Elects former Campaign Manager.
Again, nkpolitics1279 is speaking without factual analysis and basis for his/her/it's assertion:
The first Secretary of Commerce (you DID say 'First') was William C. Redfield (1913 - 1919). Prior to his appointment, he was a U.S. Representative from New York from 1911 to 1913 and was an unsuccessful Democratic nominee for the vice presidency in 1912.
The second Secretary of Commerce was Joshua W. Alexander (1919 - 1921). Alexander was a member of the United States House of Representatives from Missouri from 1907 until his resignation to become commerce secretary.
The third Secretary of Commerce was Herbert Hoover (1921 - 1928). Hoover was independently wealthy, so he didn't need a 'job', so he became a 'humanitarian', serving as a member of the Supreme Economic Council and head of the American Relief Administration from the end of 1918 to the campaign of 1920.
The fourth Secretary of Commerce was William F. Whiting (1928 - 1929). It appears that he was president of the Whiting Paper Company immediately prior to his appointment as Secretary of Commerce.
So far, no Secretary has been the Chairman of a political party, nor has one been the manager of a Presidential campaign.
The fifth Secretary of Commerce was Robert P. Lamont (1929 - 1932). He was a busisman immediately prior to his appointment as Secretary of Commerce.
Need we go further?
Roy D. Chapin - Neither, as he was an industrialist and automaker.
Daniel C. Roper - Hey! We have a winner!!! Roper served as chairman of a Presidential campaign!!! Too bad it was sixteen years prior, as he served as chairman of Woodrow Wilson's reelection campaign in 1916.
Let's see. Roper was the seventh Secretary of Commerce, the first to be head of a Presidential election campaign. However, it wasn't the election campaign of the President for whom he served as Secretary of Commerce.
Hmmmm, based on the criteria you stated, I guess Roper isn't the winner.
Oh well. We now know what we can expect from nkpolitics1279 - ill researched information that is incorrectly presented.
Kaine was my original preference for VP on tactical and Bubba/Catholic-appeal grounds, but since Virginia even got blue to the point where Nate tabbed it as a "firewall", I must give BHO credit for his "best-for-January" VP pick.
Since the last Franken thread has gone over to Richardson---IMHO not just the grand-jury delay but also Blago upped the odds on his being a casualty, and IMHO that answers why he didn't get State---I hope it's OK to carry on here. This just-now CNN story repeats the reporting of many others that "Coleman's campaign...contends the recount should have included about 650 absentee ballots it says were improperly rejected in the initial count." The "650" is actually 654, while 933 ballots were counted Saturday. And
933 + 654 = 1,587,
which is nothing over than the SoS's official figure of the total number of ballots identified by counties as improperly-rejected. (This number goes back at least to Dec. 12, see here.) The clear inference seems to be that the "Coleman's campaign...it says..." reference entails Coleman reversing its own vetoes, of 59 St. Louis County ballots in particular. And the "it says" should read "which the counties originally said...." I.e. Coleman is now just trying to get another roll of the dice, not really at this point for trying to win but for trying to delay. Why isn't the above simple addition being reported as such?
This STrib story also says, [Coleman's] "Recount attorney Fritz Knaak said that he believed 300 to 400 ballots would go Coleman's way in a contest, including through the addition of absentee ballots so far excluded and the elimination of so-called `double votes' in Minneapolis." Thus they are mindful that they can no longer argue a 150-ish gap with the dupes+Dinkytown. I'm reminded that in his last Florida appeal, Gore's brief strung together enough possibilities to reach a possible victory margin of "nine votes", stopping there. How far out on the limb will Coleman have to go to keep up such appeals?
Keep in mind that with a Democratic President, the DNC chair will have a great deal less power in setting the agenda. Howard Dean happened to do a good job in his role at the time, but circumstance's for what looks to be Kaine's tenure are quire different, so I think that a lot of the hand-wringing is unnecessary.
During his campaign for governor, he expressed his Catholic faith as a driving force behind his candidacy. Perhaps he can share that with the DNC, to allow the Democratic Party to fully embrace the power of faith.
This is GREAT NEWS FOR KAINE !!!
for the rest of us ? at best, meh...
Tim Kaine is no Howard Dean, & Kainer seems to be desperately in need of coaching to learn how to master TV appearances since he was underwhelming [to be kind] during the election cycle
maybe Obama will loan him his speech coach & PR team
BUT if Kaine is strongly anti-choice, then this is another truly terrible placement by Obama - right up there with the whole slap-in-the face of your own base Warren choice
WV - dipoles [dyslexic bi-polars]
Jay-
Oh yeah. That's just what we need, more religion in government.
Listen, give to Caesar (Washington) what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. Government is not in the business of enforcing Christian morals, faith or doctrine, and the Vatican is not in the business of propping up governments. The purpose of government is to prevent the citizens from depriving one another of life liberty or property and to maintain the common defense of the Republic. If my neighbor believes in one God or 1 million Gods, or no Gods at all, it does me no injury, and as such, it is not for Government to tell my neighbor to follow any religious doctrine whatever. Were it, one denomination would eventually gain supreme status, and all others be forced into an inferior status with relation to it; and there is no guarantee that your religion will be the winner of that contest. There is a reason why the Constitution prohibits a religious test for the holding of public office; when religion becomes political, it abandons its own principles in favor of pursuing dominance; when politics become religious, one set of citizens gains prominence over all others. Neither outcome is desirable in a Democratic Republic such as our own.
the GOP has become corrupted by the Politics of Religion. It has chosen to degenerate into a fundamentalist Protestant cult. Should the Democrats devolve into fundamentalist Catholicism, I see an America not unlike Northern Ireland a decade or two ago, where countrymen who even claimed to worship the same God killed each other over dogma, showing a higher concern with the primacy of Popes and Pastors than for the Sixth Commandment.
If you love you God, keep Him away from DC. If you love your Government, keep it away from the Vatican. And if you give a shit at all about your country, then do not follow the GOP in it's disastrous march toward Theocracy
I hope not.
i was referring to Jay's post.
TIM KAINE on Abortion:
@ http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Tim_Kaine_Abortion.htm
----------------------------------
'Tim Kaine on Abortion'
Democratic Governor (VA)
'Promote abstinence; ban partial-birth abortion'
"I will reduce abortion in Virginia by enforcing current Virginia restrictions, passing an enforceable ban on partial-birth abortion, ensuring women’s access to health care (including legal contraception), and promoting abstinence-focused education and adoption. We should reduce abortion in this manner, rather than by criminalizing women and doctors."
Source: Campaign website www.kaine2005.org, “Issues” Nov 8, 2005
'I have a faith-based opposition to abortion'
"I have a faith-based opposition to abortion. As governor, I will work in good faith to reduce abortions by:
- Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion and passing an enforceable ban on partial birth abortion that protects the life and health of the mother;
- Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education;
- Ensuring women’s access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity; and
- Promoting adoption as an alternative for women facing unwanted pregnancies."
-----------------------------------
sounds like 'Don't ask, Don't tell' for the Woman's Choice constituency
this is WRONG imho
Then it's a good thing to get him out of government before he hurts somebody.
Tim Kane's DNC versus The Neo-Cons.
Holy Wars III: Revenge of the Shits
mwah ha ha
Tim Kaine
STAT
that is blasphemous...
gawd wheel strike yah dayed
[or not]
Teh intersection of Church, State, and Business
More! More!
the 'eyes' have it...
Repugnants
Democrats
Peggy Noonan wrote a really odd bit of praise for Kaine back when he was a VP contender as only she can... talking about his "place"-iness, how he looked like an air marshal, a guy from Detroit who goes to his barber every day and asks for a Hoffa... haha it was awesome. That's what I think of when I see him though. He comes across as a real blue collar guy. Not a salesman like McAuliffe or a partisan like Dean (who I love). Image is everything...
@DCM in FL - Kaine's position on abortion is virtually the same as Obama and Biden. Personally pro-life, politically pro-choice within reason. Just saying. His position on stem cells is iffier.
Gotta Catch em all
So I heard you like mudkips
Not a salesman like McAuliffe or a partisan like Dean
The more partisan the better in my booK.
Siobahn,
You know something, I don't want a Blue Collar guy to be the President. Seriously, Joe the Plumber might be awesome at unclogging my drain, but I don't think he's all that great at negotiating with Putin.
There has always been a strand of anti-intellectualism in the US. We emulate professional athletes and denigrate mathematicians, we elect the guy we'd want to have a beer with over the guy that looks like he knows what he's doing. This is what got us the Bush Administration, because Gore was a super-smart geek with low personal skills and Bush seemed like the kinda guy who could fix that knocking noise in your car engine.
And guess what? The Good Old Boy was not as good at foreign policy as he looked like he would be at fixing your car.
Our kids lag behind every other nation on this earth in math and science. At my college, I'm one of the few born-in-the-US Americans. Why? Because most American kids are not encouraged to study geeky stuff like math and science, and the school has to fill the open student seats with foreigners whose parents actually give a fuck about something other than football.
I hate to sound like an elitist snob, but I actually do not want Larry the Cable Guy for DNC Chair. You know who I'd Rather see the DNC chair as? Not a beer-drinking, shotgun rack in the pickup Good Old Boy like Bush or Kaine, I would rather see an educated, thoughtful man with a lifelong dedication to promoting the education of our kids in something other than professional sports, cheap beer and 70's stadium rock.
Yee Haw, I's just a good ole boy! Elect me! Aaahm jus' like y'all! Here, lemme play y'all a little ol' tune on my banjo... "Don't tell My Heart... My Achey Breaky Heart..."
SIOBHAN
well IF you generalize the relative positions of Kaine / Obama / Biden you could say they are fairly close to similar stands on choice
BUT, Kaine is at least at a minimum further to the right than Obama or Biden
and his outright public support for choice comes across as much 'softer' than either Biden or Obama who both expound that they are strong choice advocates [even if their faith is tested]
now is Kaine as far right as Bob Casey ??? nope - but that was such a clearly opportunistic choice in PA in '06 just to win a seat [that they would have won easily imho against Santorum] in which the DEMs sold out their CHOICE constituency for political expediency
that is what bothers many - Arlen Specter is better than Casey on several issues
why are the DEMs willing to marginalize much of their base on key issues ???
moderate, ok - move further RIGHT ??? appeasement is not acceptable
DCM in FL said...
Arlen Specter is better than Casey on several issues
in his stump speeches, in his political literature, in committee hearings etc.,
UNTIL
it is time for the final vote.
I still remember his handling of the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill hearings, and, when it came time to vote for or against confirmation of Thomas, how he voted as he was TOLD to vote by the R leadership.
RARELY does Specter, on the final vote, go against the wishes of the R leadership.
DCM, I'm strongly pro-choice, and for some very fundamental reasons, including the principle that it's totalitarian to force a woman either to carry a pregnancy to term or have an abortion, and that in countries where abortion is illegal, such as Brazil and the Philippines, thousands and thousands of women are killed or permanently disfigured every year in illegal or self-abortions.
But that said, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to expel economic liberals from the Democratic Party if they disagree with me on abortion - or, for that matter, capital punishment (which I'm opposed to).
By the way, in case anyone is interested, I do have different standards for 3rd-trimester abortions than for 1st-trimester, but that principle is built into the Roe v. Wade decision, and common sense should tell us that 3rd-trimester abortions are usually very tragic situations - emergencies, really. I support so-called "partial birth abortions" when a woman and her doctor(s) determine that continuing the pregnancy would be so dangerous as to severely endanger her life or health.
Well, as has been stated before, my main issue is anti-authoritarianism. I really don't care much what economic system you choose to run with - most economics seems like voodoo to me, since the economy improves when most people believe it is improving and flops when most people think it's about time for it to start sucking. If I spent my life trying to figure out what made people feel good or bad about spending money, I'd probably go insane - though alot of folks at 538 would probably suggest I already have.
No, my only real concern is the degree to which and in which manner Government attempts to restrict the basic freedoms of citizens and visitors, and the degree to which any one group or groups of citizens can come to dominate and control Government, and by extension all other groups of citizens. In my ideal America, we would all be on a level playing field, and the odds of a gay man getting into the Senate would be as good as a straight man's, same with race, gender, religion, blah blah blah.
I find Kaine offensive because he displays theocratic tendencies, and theocracy is a form of autocracy. Government has no role in the religious lives of the citizens at all, which ought to be a private struggle between the believer and their religion, with no outside actors involved. Religion likewise has no role in government, lest it become a tool of the state, an apologist for the wealthy or powerful, or much worse still the basis for a personality cult of a potential dictator, who can claim that anyone who defies him defies God. I have seen religions betray their principles time and again, where countries that profess to value human life go to war with one another, where pro-life governors order the execution of prisoners, where supposedly 'Christian' nations allow their homeless populations to starve while their leaders attend state dinners as the guests of honor.
The Orthodox Church was once the apologist for the Tsars and now is for Putin. The Catholics, for Franco and Mussolini. The C of E for the Kings that brutally raped Ireland, India, America, Africa and every other corner of the earth. Religion has been used to justify the Holocaust, the genocide of the American Natives, gender inequality, homophobia, racism, the Slave Trade, Robber Barons and Corporate Trusts, Polluters and every other imaginable form of banditry. Right now a group calling itself the Lord's Resistance Army is murdering children in Uganda in the Name of God. This is what happens when you make religion a tool of the state, your religion makes a sad joke of itself and betrays everything it stands for at the behest of the Head of State. Government fares equally badly, as has been seen in Northern Ireland, Lebanon, Sudan, Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Russia, India, and Pakistan, all places where religious differences have prevented government from functioning by religious polarization.
And similar perversions have happened here, too. Not that long ago, white bigots considered dark skin the 'Mark of Cain', and remnants of thsi belief are found in the Christian Identity movement, which is anything but the religion of the guy that said Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself shall be the whole of the law.
Enough with this divine madness. Let's have us a call for sanity and reason, and leave the Kingdom of Heaven up to the religious people, and the Republic of America to the secularists. Kaine is the wrong choice, as is anybody that claims religion informs their politics, or politics their religion.
The DNC is basically gonna be run from inside the Obama White House, and Tim Kaine is tight with Obama, so this makes perfect sense.
Kaine is actually quite a feisty character, though not as feisty as Howard Dean (who is?). I was impressed by his response to Biden getting VP and he came across well during the Democratic convention, particularly his appearance on The Daily Show.
As for Kaine's views on gay marriage and abortion, it won't have any influence over the party platform. Afterall, Howard Dean was percieved as being on the far-left, yet the platform was basically the same as it was 2004 under Terry McAuliffe. Howard Dean's biggest contribution in the last 4 years, apert from initiating the 50 State Strategy, was that he was brilliant at pushing back against Republican talking points in the MSM.
Anybody know where Dean is headed?
Dean ran screaming from the job.
Obama stimulus to include huge tax cuts for poor and moderate income folks.
"The largest piece of tax relief in the new plan would involve cuts for people who pay income taxes or who claim the earned-income credit, a refund designed to lessen the impact of payroll taxes on low- and moderate-income workers. This component would serve as a down payment on the "Making Work Pay" proposal Mr. Obama outlined during his election campaign, giving a credit of $500 per individual or $1,000 per family."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123111279694652423.html
Israel, really going after the important people - NOT!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-death-and-life-of-my-father-1225793.html
This invasion is a horrendous over-reaction. Lets pull all aid to Israel, now.
Statler:
Economics isn't voodoo when it comes to whether government is increasing the wealth of the top 1% of the population while totally screwing the bottom 20%, which is what Republican administrations have essentially done since at least World War II, and presumably longer (I'd bet since WW I). Democratic administrations, by contrast, while increasing the wealth of the top 1% almost as much as the Republicans, have greatly improved the financial condition of the poor. That's due to taxation and spending policies.
And while I agree with most of your remarks about the evils of entangling religion and government, I don't think it makes any sense to make the Democratic Party the party of secularism above all, rather than the party of economic fairness, above all. I _DO_ want the party to be a strong advocate and protector of civil liberties, but that doesn't mean people who disagree with some of the party planks should be expelled.
I'm a bit uncomfortable with some of Kaine's views and not fully convinced that he's an ideal choice for Chairman of the DNC on that basis, but I do get the politics of the choice, which seem astute and of a piece with other acts of attempted inclusion by Obama - geographic, and faith-based.
I agree with PorridgeGun that Kaine won't have any control over the platforms under which the Democratic Party actually runs, though.
He will have more influence over strategy, I presume, whereupon, the question is, how good a strategist is he. On that question, there seems to be room for doubt, as he wasn't that popular in Virginia, last time Nate posted relevant stats. But then again, so many people thought Howard Dean was a boneheaded pick, and look how that turned out.
Michael-
Great post, but I would add that Dean was infinitely more experienced than Kaine in both life and politics before taking the job.
Brad, is it only Israel you're mad at, or do you propose to cut off all aid to every country whose government is doing something you don't like (such as, perhaps, every Arab country, because they're all grievous violators of human rights, lack civil liberties, etc.)? I have to say, the U.S. has been much worse in Iraq than anything Israel is doing in Gaza (check the estimates on Iraqi excess deaths, refugees, and internally displaced people, for example), and with much less, if any, provocation, so the outgoing U.S. government wouldn't have a leg to stand on in slamming Israeli behavior. Not that that's stopping regimes like Russia's, which has committed tremendous crimes in Chechnya, from displaying total hypocrisy.
I do not want Obama to continue GW Bush's destructive blank check policy toward a sometimes self-destructive Israeli government and could support cuts in aid (not a total cutoff) if that's what's necessary to press them to permanently dismantle settlements found illegal by the Israeli Supreme Court and vigorously prosecute extremist settlers who assault Arabs and destroy their olive trees or/and steal their olive harvest, for example.
But there's a word for people who have righteous anger only toward Israel and no other country. Especially those who are so obsessed that they post stuff where it isn't relevant. Not that I'm presuming anything about you, but I've seen such patterns from some other people in the past, and if the shoe fits...
Good point, Brad. And I'm very surprised Dean wasn't offered a cabinet position by Obama.
By the way, I apologize if I'm unjustly casting aspersions; the deaths of noncombattants should always cause everyone to react emotionally. If we don't care, we have lost our humanity.
Michael-
You have no idea what other countries I have righteous anger at.
I also believe Israel has the right to defend itself, but the seemingly random over-reaction in both Lebanon and here is well beyond the pale.
Nothing like using a good inhumane weapon in a heavily populated metropolitan area.
"Israel is believed to be using controversial white phosphorus shells to screen its assault on the heavily populated Gaza Strip yesterday. The weapon, used by British and US forces in Iraq, can cause horrific burns but is not illegal if used as a smokescreen. "
What Obama’s Kaine-DNC Pick May Mean
Stat
"I would rather see an educated, thoughtful man with a lifelong dedication to promoting the education of our kids in something other than professional sports, cheap beer and 70's stadium rock."
I am guessing/hoping you would be just as happy with an educated, thoughtful woman?
Did you mean adult? or person?
Not to be picky, but... well given your commitment to the ideal of equal treatment I think it is worth mentioning, that your comment excluded over 50% of the adult population.
WV billobi- I do not know what it is but I think it would make a good gift.
Brad, the Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006 was a total waste of lives, limbs, property, and even ammunition. Why? Because, quite apart from what a very restrained person would call the insufficiently discriminate targetting by the Israeli Air Force, the declared reasons for it were: (1) Hezbollah had demanded the release of the child-killing terrorist, Samir Kuntar, in exchange for two Israeli soldiers they had just seized, and (2) in order to stop Hezbollah from launching missiles at Israeli towns. The results were that Hezbollah hit Israel with much but not everything it had, has since gained a lot of power and replenished its arms and ammunition and then some, and Israel traded Samir Kuntar for the dead bodies of the soldiers two years later. I grieve for all those who died in that war for no good reason.
So disregarding tactics and even questions of whether the attack on Gaza is necessary, we won't know until later whether there was any point at all in this attack or not. (I'll mention tangentially that if the leftist Israeli newspaper, Ha'Aretz, is accurate in reporting that some 3/4 of the deaths are Hamas fighters, that's pretty good targetting in such a heavily populated area, but that's not the final word on the matter, and if they're using phosphorus, that's horrible.)
But I have to ask you what you think the Bush Administration would have done if Canada or Mexico were ruled by a party that had sent suicide terrorists into American cities, is committed to the conquest or annihilation of the United States, and has lobbed thousands of missiles across the Rio Grande or St. Lawrence River. You know it wouldn't be pretty.
I'm not suggesting that Israel's behavior shouldn't be criticized. I think it should be. But right now, we Americans aren't in a strong position to do that. Once Obama takes office, policies can and should start to change, but don't expect or hope for a sudden vote of confidence in Hamas. As long as the U.S. needs reliable allies in the Middle East, Israel will remain an ally. If we become energy-independent, Israel's importance will decrease, but there's a lot of intelligence sharing and so forth. It simply isn't in the U.S.'s interest for Israel to lose a war, but showing more understanding of Muslims' anger and concerns and pressing Israel to behave more responsibly would be good for the entire world.
Michael-
I whole-heartedly agree that Israel has the right to defend itself. I also agree that the short-sighted, myopic, insanely uneducated Bush administration would go in and indiscrimately kill civilians if we were attacked with pea-shooters.
That said, the real question is not what is best for Israel or any party in the February elections in Israel, but instead how do we come to a long term solution. Hamas should not be in power, another insane Bush decision for the election, but Hamas was losing power in their base and if true elections were held they would have lost some, maybe most, of their power prior to this. What this attack does is create more suicide bombers, a longer war, and removes the chance that Clinton could finish what he started and worked on until his last minute office - lasting peace.
Sure, youy can fight back, but you might be making the problem worse and causing more Israeli and U.S. civilians to die in the long run.
BTW, your question should never be what would Bush do, whatever he would do - do the opposite.
Michael,
I think BOTH parties should be the parties of secularism. Neither party should pander to religious interests. It is simply put unAmerican to sell out our secular Constitution and system of government to theocrats that will only turn this country in upon itself. The potential for civil discourse in the theatre of ideas is lost completely when either side abandons rational discussions of issues pertinent to government in favor of metaphysical arguments having nothing to do with maintaining a civil society. And the problem is made much worse when BOTH parties have decided to abandon the down-to-earth matters of Government in favor of religious squabbling over the gender of God or what name we're supposed to call it or how many angels can dance on a pin. The GOP has done something Titanically insane by getting in bed with Ralph Reed, and for the DNC to follow suit by elevating Tim Kaine, who is openly theocratic, will jettison this country's political discourse over the edge of the cliff. Stop it, please, and wake up to the fact that God does not attend Party conventions. The list of examples of what happens when you insist on elevating theocrats is endless, and entirely negative.
God does not endorse a specific tax policy-give to Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. God doesn't give a shit about flag burning or school prayer or Equal Marriage or abortion. There is nothing in the Bible suggesting that God endorses English as the official language of the US or any specific immigration policy. Guess what, idiots, Jesus, Mohammad, Moses, Buddha and Krishna aren't going to be showing up in Congress any time soon, and nobody elected any of them President. God isn't on the SCOTUS, either, despite what Scalia thinks of himself.
As DNC chair with a Democratic president, Kaine is unlikely to have much influence on platform and policy (or talk-show appearances); it will be a more nuts-and-bolts position. And one thing Kaine has been very effective at during his term as governor is getting more Democrats elected. The VA GOP whined endlessly about how he actually went out and campaigned against their candidates, and how could they possibly work with him (never mind that they weren't working with him before that.)
On balance, I would say that Mark Warner was a better governor, but Tim Kaine is a better party-builder. I think it's a really good position for him and for us.
(Plus, this will make two DNC chairs in a row who recognize me, even if they don't really know me!)
I disagree. I think we need a DNC Chair that will unite us by avoiding the divisive issue of religion, leaving God to the Churches and focusing instead on things that matter here on Earth. Build us a party of men not of Gods.
Remember: Party of God in Arabic = Hamas. Those who blend religion and politics in the same pot poison us all.
My Pick for DNC Chair
People, take a deep breath. I live in Richmond, and I can assure you, Tim Kaine has absolutely no appetite for anti-choice or anti-gay legislation. He might not support same-sex marriage (neither does Obama), but he opposed the same-sex amendment in Virginia a few cycles ago, and he has done exactly nothing as governor to push an anti-abortion agenda. He takes the same stance on abortion that he takes on the death penalty, in that he opposes it personally, but he won't seek to overturn precedent. He's a centrist and a gradualist, just like Obama, and that's one of the reasons they get along so well. Now you might say that you want someone who proudly advocates a liberal agenda, and I sympathize with that perspective, but understand also that the Democrats have turned Virginia completely blue (two governors, two Senators, and now Terry McAuliffe, for God's sake) by co-opting the Republicans on economic and defense issues and neutralizing them on social issues. That's how you win the Upper South and the Midwest, and that's exactly what the Fifty State Strategy is all about.
fred and brown, great posts!
Seperate Church and State
Well said, brown. I, too, live in Richmond and have followed Tim Kaine's career since his early days on the City Council. He is about as centrist as one can imagine and is absolutely brilliant. He may look "blue collar," but I can assure you that he is highly educated, well read and has an expansive world view. He is a policy wonk and a consensus builder, not an idealogue.
MICHAEL
I never suggested kicking Tim Kaine to the curb [or out of the party] as you seem to suggest above.
I am merely against & aghast at the DEMs & Obama choosing to appoint center-RIGHT pols into positions of power & influence
give us the progressive secular humanists - not religious lackeys that feign 'concern' about our interests that they state that morally oppose !!!
Kaine is entitled to his medieval religious belief system - but he does not deserve to be installed in this particular position where POLICY does matter !!!
DCM, I get your point. I don't know how much policy matters, though, for someone in this position.
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