It's not just the goose egg that the House Republicans laid on the Democratic stimulus package yesterday: Boehner's Boys have been equally uncooperative on other matters. Case in point: a bill yesterday to delay the transition to digital TV. This measure was approved unanimously by the Senate; every Senate Republican gave it the green light. But 155 out of 178 House Republicans voted against it, which resulted in the measure's defeat since a two-thirds majority would have been required for passage under the House's suspension of the rules.
Or, take the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, a seemingly fairly popular/populist (if not inscrutable) piece of legislation on gender-based pay discrepancies. This was something that Barack Obama whacked John McCain on on the campaign trail, with McCain offering little rebuttal. In the Senate, five Republicans -- out of 41 -- voted with the Administration on Ledbetter, including all four Republican women. In the House, just three Republicans did -- out of 178.
Boenher and Eric Cantor have obviously done an impressive job of rallying their troops -- and Cantor, in particular, seems proud of his efforts. But what grander purpose does this strategy serve? The House Republicans are opposing popular legislation from a very popular President, and doing so in ways that stick a needle in the eye of the popular (if quixotic) concept of bipartisanship. They would seem to have little chance of actually blocking this legislation, since they are far short of a majority, and since the Senate Republicans, who can filibuster, have thus far shown little inclination to go along with them -- with moderates like Susan Collins of Maine and Judd Gregg of New Hampshire voting routinely with the Administration.
As I have opined before, the Democratic message will essentially be one of two things in 2010:1. Obama's accomplished X, Y and Z and showed the country the way forward, let's give him leaders in Congress who can continue to deliver for the middle class, or,
One can understand the Republicans betting against #1, which won't work unless the economy recovers. But in so doing, they seem to be writing the Democrats' taglines for them on #2, the partisanship message. Of course, this is not necessarily an easy hand for the Democrats to play: they at once have to maintain the continued pretense/appearance of bipartisanship while at the same time attacking them for their non-cooperation.
2. Obama accomplished X, but he couldn't accomplish Y and Z because the Republicans obstructed those measures to protect the special interests ... let's put partisanship behind us and elect leaders in Congress who can represent the common good.
But surely the phrase "ZERO Republicans voted for the Recovery Package" is more likely to escape Democratic lips on the campaign trail in 2010 than Republican ones. If the stimulus bill proves to be unpopular -- and it might well -- a House Republican can tout the fact that he voted against the package. But with the unanimous vote -- as well as the near-unanimity on measures like the Ledbetter Act and Digital TV -- the Republicans remove the emphasis from their individual judgment to that of their party. It is not clear why they would want this: the Republican brand, even under the best of circumstances, is not likely to be significantly rehabilitated by 2010, especially when the Republicans do not have agenda-setting powers.
Perhaps there is some grander strategy here that, as a Democrat/liberal/progressive/whatever-you-want-to-call me, I'm simply not understanding. But one needs to remember that in the Republicans' most recent opportunity to display their tactical genius -- that of the McCain campaign -- the best and brightest Republican minds proved to be neither very talented nor very bright.
Most fundamentally of all, the McCain campaign radically overestimated the importance of appealing to the base. House Republicans may be replicating their mistake. Self-described conservative Republicans represent only about 20 percent of the population. This base is not necessarily becoming smaller; it's still alive and kicking. What is true, however, is that the (1) base has never been sufficient to form a winning electoral coalition, and (2) that there are fewer and fewer non-base (e.g. moderates, libertarian Republicans, Republican leaning-independents). As these moderates have fled the GOP, the party's electoral fortunes have tanked. But simultaneously, they have had less and less influence on the Republican message.
Thus the Republicans, arguably, are in something of a death spiral. The more conservative, partisan, and strident their message becomes, the more they alienate non-base Republicans. But the more they alienate non-base Republicans, the fewer of them are left to worry about appeasing. Thus, their message becomes continually more appealing to the base -- but more conservative, partisan, and strident to the rest of us. And the process loops back upon itself.
The other possibility, of course, is that John Boehner and Eric Cantor are not so much concerned about the future of the Republican party, but about the future of John Boehner and Eric Cantor. Cantor, in particular, is a media-savvy figure and someone with plausible presidential ambitions: one can easily imagine him trying to position himself as the new Gingrich. But the political climate is much different now than it was in 1993; he can't erase either the damage wrought upon the Republican brand by the Bush administration, nor -- at least in the near-term -- Obama's sky-high approval ratings. Perhaps the House Republicans voted against delaying the digital TV changeover because they don't want Americans to see the carnage.
1.29.2009
The Republican Death Spiral
by Nate Silver @ 12:41 PM...see also 2010, boehner, cantor, house republicans, meta, partisanship, stimulus
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94 comments
They are doubling down on their failed partisanship it seems.
I've got to admit that the bill to delay the tv conversion was really not helpful: not only have numerous parties relied on the February date and invested money accordingly, but they've been running commercials for 2 years non-stop getting people ready. That 5% of the population who still uses rabbit ears has had an eternity to get ready; I don't see the point in delaying it 4 more months.
Leader of the Republican party.
So, Republicans can only save themselves by acting like liberal Democrats. Bush tried that. McCain tried that. It didn't work. If people want a Democrat, they'll vote for the real thing. That's why there's move to get back to the roots that were both successful economically and in winning elections.
House Republicans =
Groucho Marx: From the 1932 movie "Horse Feathers"
"I'm Against it"
Music and Lyrics By: Bert Kalmar and Harry Ruby
Song Lyrics:
[Groucho]
I don't know what they have to say,
It makes no difference anyway,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I'm against it.
Your proposition may be good,
But let's have one thing understood,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
I'm against it.
I'm opposed to it,
On general principle, I'm opposed to it.
[chorus] He's opposed to it.
In fact, indeed, that he's opposed to it!
[Groucho]
For months before my son was born,
I used to yell from night to morn,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
And I've kept yelling since I first commenced it,
I'm against it!
The Japanese have a saying, "The nail that sticks out gets pounded down."
No one in the House Republican caucus dares to stick out alone, for fear of the media (ie Rush Limbaugh) backlash:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_01/016656.php
Am I really first?
There's at least a hint of support for the death spiral thesis in recent polls - they've shifted so dramatically the first one looked like an outlier. But now POLLINGREPORT.COM lists two:
"Thinking about the next elections for U.S. Congress in 2010, if the elections for U.S. Congress were held today, would you be voting for the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate?" (Diageo/Hotine 21-24/09)
Dem Repub Neither Unsure
46 22 5 27
"Do you think the country would be better off if the Republicans controlled Congress, or if the Democrats controlled Congress?"
(CNN,1/12-15/09)
Dem Repub Neither Same Unsure
56 31 10 3 1
If we assume the remaining Republican support is concentrated in the South and Mormon belt, the figures from - say - New England - make it hard to imagine there's a Republican resurgence aborning.
Nate,
I think the Rep. leadership in the House is less concerned about 2010 right now and more concerned about demonstrating to Obama that they won't be a rubber stamp just because he sweet-talks them. This applies particularly to the stimulus package...they weren't consulted and felt like they deserved a say if Obama's was going to be touting bipartisanship.
As happy as I am to see the democratic congress getting things done, I can't help but be afraid of majority tyranny by the democratic party. An economic stimulus was needed, but this bill wasn't perfect, and Nancy Pelosi's complete lack of desire to give the GOP ANYthing they want is a slap in the face to the constitution. Blame for this vote also falls on Nancy Pelosi, who ignored Obama'a call for birpartisanship as much as anyone. Politics is about compromise, and if she can't get even one Republican vote on an urgently needed bill in an economic crisis, what is she going to do in 2010 if the democratic majority in the house lessens? (although this is looking less likely as the GOP continues to dig this hole for themselves) Pelosi is an ineffective, incompetent Speaker who embodies everything bad about partisan politics Obama rails against.
http://www.slate.com/id/2210082/?from=rss is a good article on the same subject defending the Republicans' unanimous rejection.
Death Spiral seems appropriate for this bunch...
may it spiral very quickly!
Touched on this in the previous thread, regarding Democrats being pummelled on the airwaves:
REPORT: GOP Lawmakers Outnumber Democratic Lawmakers 2 To 1 In Stimulus Debate On Cable News
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/28/cable-news-stimulus/
Are the Dems on a fucking break or what? It's not enough for the president to be out there selling the Stimulus to the American public. The likes of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd need to get their arses in gear and start hammering Bonerman and Frank Stallone's less talented younger brother.
time to move off blogger.com
Hear, hear! Their stance is certainly on a limb. I can only suppose they have concocted a new batch of kool-aid that somehow tastes sweeter than the skunky Rove batch, or...?
one word: gerrymandering
OK, 55 more words:
The republican base consists of 20% of the population, so in a national election, it's pretty useless, and even in a statewide election, it's not decisive. But I would bet for the vast majority of members of the House, that base approaches 50%, and thus they need do very little, if anything, beyond motivating it.
The GOP is betting the party that Obama will fail and they can say we fought him all the way.
If the economy ends up in a prolonged depression that might work but the democrats can always scream the republicans were obstructing us all the way.
If Obama suceeds without GOP help the party is going to just about fade away everywhere except the deep south and maybe a few western states. They are playing a game of chicken that may destroy them.
I'm thinking of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. One of Clinton's first big bills, every single Congressional Republican--House and Senate--voted against the thing. About a year later, as I recall, this was being used as a cudgel to whack swing-district Dems in every major suburb in America (and made a big difference in Republican efforts to retake Congress). The Democrats who voted for the bill in swing districts, like Buddy Darden in GA-07, got clobbered for being "in Clinton's pocket." It was a bloodbath.
I think what the House GOP is doing is trolling for the next OBRA: something they can point to as a sign of how lemming-like our side is being in a coordinated ad campaign. Who knows how these issues, and this President, will be polling in a year? This might be the best strategy they have, in the absence of a cohesive ideology, for presenting a national campaign theme in 2010.
With all due respect, I think you're missing something obvious that explains this difference. All Republicans do not have the goal of strengthening the Republican brand. In particular, House Republicans, who are accountable only to their relatively small, gerrymandered districts, know that they can get elected again and again by opposing Obama's policies. In fact, their careers only come into jeopardy when they start getting reputations as RINOs and risk primary challenges.
This is why the Senate Republicans are much more pliable. They know that they have to appeal to a whole state, and that that state isn't as likely to be red as it was the last time they ran. Of course, they risk getting tarred with the "obstructionist" brush that their House colleagues are earning…but what does the House care about that? They're interested in their jobs, not the grand future of their party.
I agree. But it seems like there is still SOME value though, in an individual Republican being able to say "I voted against this unpopular stimulus bill," no?
First!
Republicans who need 'em. They are irrelevant.
Great Piece Nate. I think the far better strategy would be to let the popular president get what he wants and then show it didn't work, the fact that they are slapping at the will of the people this early is a sign they have no interest in trying to move this country forwardand are once again playing for the Palin crowd of the ignorant. This will not be a winning strategy, as they are not picking fights that the can look like winners, instead just picking fights on everything, not in smart due to the 20% you mention being the vocal wing of their base...Some might even still believe McCain failed them by not being partisan enough, reading some messsage boards. I think it'll backfire, as Boenner is an ignorant tool who has showed it on a million occasions, and he's leading Cantor and the rest of these psychopants down a road which will take a long time to recover. You can't keep repeating "do nothing" when you make it apparent you are the reason nothing was done, eventually people catch on.
Great Piece Nate. I think the far better strategy would be to let the popular president get what he wants and then show it didn't work, the fact that they are slapping at the will of the people this early is a sign they have no interest in trying to move this country forwardand are once again playing for the Palin crowd of the ignorant. This will not be a winning strategy, as they are not picking fights that the can look like winners, instead just picking fights on everything, not in smart due to the 20% you mention being the vocal wing of their base...Some might even still believe McCain failed them by not being partisan enough, reading some messsage boards. I think it'll backfire, as Boenner is an ignorant tool who has showed it on a million occasions, and he's leading Cantor and the rest of these psychopants down a road which will take a long time to recover. You can't keep repeating "do nothing" when you make it apparent you are the reason nothing was done, eventually people catch on.
I can't see it either... The House Republicans are totally, absolutely walking away from responsible government. Not that they've been models of responsibility, but this seems to be a real statement: you are in charge now. If not for the relative centrism of their Senate compatriots, this would be the death knell of the party. I hope it continues! Good-bye, House Republicans! Good luck with 2010!
We should be concerned with the Republican death spiral. The Democrats will do stupid things and need a viable opposition. The GOP, the party of Lincoln, has become the party of white evangelicals and not engaged with the reality based community. I see this situation get worse - not better. The solution may be a split in the Democratic party.
Enjoy wandering the desert, Republican party.
Hear, hear! They certainly appear to be on a limb. Maybe they made a new batch of kool-aid that somehow tastes sweeter than the old skunky Rove batch, or ...??
Do you know if there's a list of the people who voted for the Wall Street Bailout but against Obama's stimulus plan?
It seems to me that this would make one very vulnerable in 2010 (unless maybe your distract was the lower half of Manhattan).
I sure know if I were running against what my main line of attack would be!
How much good
does a tax cut do
for a man who HAS NO JOB???
Tax cuts wouldn't have helped any of the companies who just had a massive round of layoffs. Anyone who says otherwise is just ignoring the situation for their own perceived gain.
I can't really see the benefit of the unanimous vote against the Recovery Package either -- because the Recovery Package will likely be considered a success unless the economy is still in a tailspin in late 2010. If the economy is still in peril by then (which is unlikely), the Democrats are going to have a tough November regardless of this vote.
In other words, the best case scenario is that the GOP won't need the help; the worst case, and much more likely, scenario is that they end up having opposed an initiative that, rightly or not, will be seen as turning the economy around.
I don't know about a "death spira", the House Rs are likely to be popular in their very conservative districts by being intransigent. They are trending toward becoming only a regional party, however.
I think we'll see the death spiral continue for at least the next couple of election cycles; I'm not sure where it ends. That's based on our experience here in Virginia, where Republicans responded to starting to lose power by becoming more rigid; every loss is evidence that they weren't conservative enough, and groups like the Club for Growth try to primary anyone who compromises. In addition, the younger members tend to be more hard-line than the older ones, so as older moderates retire (and sometimes endorse the Democrat in the race to replace them), the remaining ones get more insular.
So I think it's a function both of the ideology of the remaining office-holders, and that they've built their base into a howling mob of liberal-haters such that they have a hard time appealing to anyone else without the base deciding it's a betrayal and abandoning them.
I assume they'll manage to break out of it at some point, but I have no insight into what that will look like.
Where are the grown-ups in the Republican establishment? Have they all abandoned ship in the wake of U.S.S Sarah? The unholy trinity of the GOP electoral lock over the past three decades (fiscal conservatives, religious/social fundamentalists and national security hawks) has disintegrated. Left in the rubble is a hysterical, irrational wingnut base seemingly hellbent on self-immolation.
Thank you for re-engaging the comment moderation.
Alot depends on the Senate these next two years. The House Democrats, as the stimulus package shows, can steamroll the GOP and do not require them to play along. The Senate has filibusters, though. The Dems in the House can afford to lose 12 Democratic votes and not worry. In the Senate, that would be a disaster.
And unfortunately, party discipline is weaker in the Senate than it is in the House.
Which means we still have to be careful here. If the Senate GOP becomes obstructionist to the point that Obama cannot get anything done, he will appear weak and ineffectual-two words which spell doom to Democratic Presidents. This is why McConnell recently suggested to the RNC that they devote funds to electing GOP Senators in 2010, even if it means they sustain heavy losses in the House.
Obama must somehow rally the troops in the Senate and prevent defections from the Democrats. He must also win over enough GOP moderates to get cloture on any bill that's even remotely controversial. There will undoubtedly be a fair bit of horse-trading involved. I foresee a lot of pork in the futures of Maine and Pennsylvania.
I think there's actually an important extra dimension to all of this.
As a woman I'd love to know how all this is resonating with female voters (is there any polling data yet?) I realise I'm making massive generalisations here, but I suspect that Obama's attempts at bipartisanship play well with female voters of whatever affiliation (with the exception of the Sarah Palins of this world).
In addition I just don't understand how any woman could vote for someone who is against equal pay for equal work. (And may I add, as a Brit, that I am ASTONISHED to discover that this has not previously been the law in the US).
The Republicans seem to be positioning themselves as the 'angry white men' party and surely must alienating women in droves?
Regarding comment moderation:
I'd suggest simply deleting comments that are idiotically reposted and reposted, rather than requiring approval. For one thing, the latter method stifles conversation among commenters (or at least makes them more difficult to follow). For another, the former method seems like less work for you guys.
IMO, it's more of a benefit to follow these threads in real time than it is an annoyance to have to scroll past trolling.
Nate
Once again, interesting analysis.
Remember that EVERY ONE of these US Representatives just won election in the same election as President Obama. Furthermore, they presumably ran a pro-McCain, pro-Bush, anti-Obama and "checks and balances" campaign. That is to say, "Vote for me, I will make sure that the blankity-blanks are held to account."
This is a cause of the wonderful feedback loop Nate is describing. If you want to see previous results of the feedback loop, one only needs to look at the campaigns of Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis. They (and their national party) Become more and more liberal in a time when Reagan was setting the agenda. Of course, Tip O'Neill was running the House as a true Northeast liberal at the same time, with a powerful whip hand. The democratic majority in the house survived until 1994, two years AFTER President Clinton was elected and Newt Gingrich took our his Contract On America.
It's about time my damn Republican Party woke up and fought for their conservative ideology! I am proud of them for standing up to this ridiculous bailout that gives money to some worthy causes, but some terrible ones like abortion and global warming.
PSSSH... Looks like America is finally getting of the Obama-Mania train:
Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
January 27-28, 2009
Do you favor or oppose the economic recovery package proposed by Barack Obama and the Congressional Democrats?
Favor
42%
Oppose
39%
Not Sure
19%
...the democrats can always scream the republicans were obstructing us all the way...
LOL. Hold on and let me catch my breath from laughing so hard. Hahahahahahaha!!! Sorry for that.
According to the words out of your (liberals) very own mouths, you've experienced landslide victories of major proportions.
You control the Oval Office and right at 59% of both the House and Senate. In case you forgot, although I don't know how as you've been spouting it for weeks now, THE REPUBLICANS LOST. The country eschewed them and their policies and "threw them in the dustbin of history." Right? Right?!
Bush is no longer around to blame. A majority of Republicans in Congress are no longer around to blame. Hell, their clinging on to barely a 40% voice of the country with just their fingernails. This is words from your own mouths.
So tell me how IN THE HELL Democrats can scream that "Republicans were obstructing us all the way"? I don't THINK SO.
The Dems/Libs/Progressives are on their own now. All alone. Success or failure is theirs to keep. If they work their magic, maybe they up their stake to a 70-30 margin by 2010/2012. But you can rest assured the country is watching and is laying all the problems at their feet now and waiting for answers. If they can't deliver, no one will offer any pity for tears over "Republican obstructionism." They will be the new party of blame. They will go down and a re-balancing will occur. Don't think the American people are that stupid/gullible to think that 40% of the country is holding everything back when the 60% shows its incompetence.
"The more conservative, partisan, and strident their message becomes, the more they alienate non-base Republicans. But the more they alienate non-base Republicans, the fewer of them are left to worry about appeasing. Thus, their message becomes continually more appealing to the base -- but more conservative, partisan, and strident to the rest of us. And the process loops back upon itself."
We picked up a lot of Republicans for Obama in 2008 due to this very factor.
"Roosevelt didn't pull us out of the depression and it's already 1934! So, we need to go back to Hoover-economics, more tax cuts and fiscal restraint!"
Yup! That worked really well for Republicans!
What those Scum don't realize is that this really is the Great Depression part II and they're NOT going to be able to say "We opposed Obama! Let's go back to the great days of George Bush when every plutocrat had their own personal tax break!"
It's an easy sell for Democrats. Do you really want to go back to the economic policies that got us INTO this mess? NO? Then vote for the Democrats who are at least trying to do something to get us out.
What Republicans don't realize is that once lower and middle class workers get THEIR tax breaks, there's going to be ZERO interest among the public for "across the board" tax cuts for the rich.
So, if they think they're going to ride this "anti-tax" wave to power in 2010 or 2012 they're even more delusional than they appear.
But, it wouldn't be a surprise. Republicans were certainly confident in 1936. They couldn't BELIEVE that the public would re-elect that terrible "socialist" Roosevelt who had, after all, failed to end the depression.
So, let's give OUT policies at try!
We know what the result was: Roosevelt won every state but Maine and Vermont.
I'm confused. Why did they need 2/3 of the vote to delay the transition? I thought the House only needed a majority?
this is just like in Figure Skating competetions [or aerial acrobatics or even finance] - a Death Spiral can be extremely entertaining to watch
the crowd holds it's collective breath while waiting & watching for the ending [or is it really in anticipation of the 'crash' & carnage ?]
basically that describes NASCAR too
is Nate ready to predict that the GOPers will fail to pull out of it just in time for a spectacular finish - or will they continue to play chicken & go all in, all the way, damm the torpedoes
fun with cliches !
RUDY said: "So, Republicans can only save themselves by acting like liberal Democrats. Bush tried that. McCain tried that. It didn't work."
They did?!
Rudy: what parallel universe are you living in?
We saw how well pandering to the base worked for McCain and the Shrilla...let's hope the GOP continues it's race (or lurch) towards obscurity.
Off-topic: I'm now addickted - err, addicted - to that wiki that loomisnews posted. It's probably my twelve-year-old side coming out, but - let's face it - sometimes you just need a dick joke.
But I agree with George. Up north, the opposition holds an official government office, I believe. And while it may be fun to go "LOL RETHUGLICANS," it's far more important to have a degree of healthy dissent than just ramroding through the agenda of the Executive branch or even the legislative majority.
Also: Comment moderation is on? That's good.
George,
The Democrats won't need a viable opposition. It's an old joke: 'I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat.'
What I think is more interesting than the Republican unity is the Democratic party's unity. Clyburn's doing bang-up work. Think about the first TARP bill: it didn't pass because Pelosi couldn't get the Dems together.
We'll see how long it lasts, of course.
George-
The dems are already splitting into blue dogs, social conservatives, moderates and liberals. This si great news for the dems as it expnds there reach into formerly repub areas.
Go dems - and congrats on the 50 state strategy Rahm and Dr. Dean!
House districts have been gerrymandered to such an extent that they tend to be pretty ideologically homogeneous. That's a major reason why re-election rates are so high. A complement to that is that the only elections that really matter are the primaries, when it's most important to be consistent with the base.
So you have a small, marginal and extreme House Republican caucus that has to please its party constituency and that means pleasing Rush and his ilk. Voting as they do makes it very difficult for them to move beyond their base and so limits them in other districts, but it secures Members from having effective primary challenges.
The Democrats will do stupid things and need a viable opposition.
Does anybody think that a new centrist (or center-right) party might be viable? If the Republicans do keep drifting further right, it'll open a gap for people who don't feel comfortable in the Democratic party or with a far-right Republican party.
This really is turning out to be the Republicans last stand. It's no wonder that Limbaugh wants Obama to fail because if he doesn't, the Republican party will never get that egg off their face and the rest of the nation will finally see the Achilles heel of the GOP.
joel posted:
"The GOP is betting the party that Obama will fail and they can say we fought him all the way."
Right, and that's a total failure of leadership - to abdicate responsibility in the face of the likelihood of a depression.
JR posted:
"I'm thinking of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. One of Clinton's first big bills, every single Congressional Republican--House and Senate--voted against the thing."
Yes, but three things:
(1) Neither Clinton nor the legislation, which prominently included an income tax increase, was nearly as popular as Obama and the stimulus;
(2) The country was dealing with a recession at the time but not facing anything like the kind of apocalypse we now face; and
(3) Clinton really didn't try to reach out to Republicans (also a major reason why Hillary's health plan failed), and Obama demonstrably did.
As I have opined before, the Democratic message will essentially be one of two things in 2010:
1. Obama's accomplished X, Y and Z and showed the country the way forward, let's give him leaders in Congress who can continue to deliver for the middle class, or,
2. Obama accomplished X, but he couldn't accomplish Y and Z because the Republicans obstructed those measures to protect the special interests ... let's put partisanship behind us and elect leaders in Congress who can represent the common good.
OR...
3. Okay, things aren't exactly hunky dory at home, the economy is still in the shitter. But look at how America's image has improved in the eyes of the world, thanks to our DEMOCRATIC president. What both he and the DEMOCRATS in the congress and senate are asking of the American people, is more time for things to improve. Things will get better...promise.
What the scum are literally praying for, is that the ecomomy tanks even more, Obama makes a foreign policy blunder (Clinton with Somalia), or some national security crisis. Any two of those three will do quite nicely for those evil shites.
But one needs to remember that in the Republicans' most recent opportunity to display their tactical genius -- that of the McCain campaign -- the best and brightest Republican minds proved to be neither very talented nor very bright.
I think that was more down to who they were up against. It was Obama the candidate, rather than Axelrod and his campaign, that forced McCain and Schmidt into throwing several Hail Marys. The fact that McCain's campaign antics looked retarded to anyone other than FReeptards is irrelevant. His piss-poor campaign got 47% of the vote, which still astounds me. I also still can't believe Missouri and Montana went for that old fart.
BTW, I always criticised the Obama campaign for their political ads. I still think they're the worst I've ever seen. Honestly, if I had been in Axelrod's position, I would have destroyed McCain by June. A candidate of Obama's talent would have gotten at least 60% of the vote if I was running his campaign.
I actually think America and political parties in general are in something of a death spiral. Republicans are unapologetic bastards. Democrats, for the most part, are just wankers. The ruling elite needed a phenomenon like Obama to give the country a makeover. The rest is up to him. Like JFK aftr the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis, Obama will eventually have to break from the establishemnt. He can either be mediocre like Reagan and Clinton, or he can be be counted among the greats.
Of course, you could replace "Democrats" with "Republicans" in most of the above statements and "2010" with "2002" and you essentially have a vintage Freeper 2002 post.
The problem is when Democrats and Republicans both feel that their proposals are the only just ones - this results in anything the opposition does to oppose being labeled as irresponsible.
This tunnel vision, in victory, is frequently what sows the seeds for eventual defeat.
Like the Iraq War (which initially bumped Bush's approval ratings from the 50-60% range that they had dropped to by the beginning of 2003 back up to the 70% range), if the stimulus package goes badly, the public's not going to blame the Republicans for obstructing the stimulus package, they're going to blame the pushers of the stimulus package regardless of whether that blame is appropriate or not.
Even if the Iraq War was a good idea (which I don't subscribe to) that went badly in the following years, the public would still blame Bush. And if the Iraq War was a bad idea that had turned out well in the short-term, the public wouldn't have punished the Republicans at the polls (on that issue, at least).
I'm a little confused by Nate's post. No political party regains power by cooperating with the party in power, so the long-term goals of a party not in power are going to be to oppose the party in power.
Or, to use a reference to baseball, the Republicans are currently at the low-end of the success cycle. At the low-end of the success cycle, you make higher-risk moves with the biggest upside. The most valuable payoff for the Republicans in their return to power is to oppose the Democrats and for the Democrats to be wrong while there's little upside for the Republicans in cooperating with the Democrats and the Democrats being right. The only exception is if the Democrats have the monopoly on being right (or vice-versa), which is a conceit for the world of true Party Warriors, not reality. It's extremely amusing how every 4 years, the victorious political party feels that the current circumstances that led to their victory are permanent.
Thanks loomis lol
As a response to your post, let me make an educated rebuttal.
First my perspective-
I'm a staunch conservative. I critique McCain, Bush II, Dole, and Bush I from the right. I look to people like governor Sanford of SC and House minority whip Cantor to give conservatives a seat back at the table in the republican party.
Bush failed us miserably as a leader, especially our fiscal stances. If we are going to be able to do something other than offer a Lite version of the Democratic party's solutions, we have to prove it to the public. I, as do most conservatives (not even close to a synonym for Republicans) do not think this stimulus package will be a successes (making the arguement for why is another post all together), and also fear for the increasing national debt (we'd say the same thing to Bush's deficit spending.)
When this perspective is vindicated, we would like to be able to point out that our principles were correct and you can trust us not to make these mistakes. Well, if we are no different than the Democratic party, just offering a lesser extreme of the failed proposal, why would we have earned anyone's trust of vote?
You can disagree with me on the fact that the stimulus will work, but if it doesn't, we don't want our name on a bill that contradicts greatly with our limited government principles. (I repeat again, many republicans have not been a stellar example of this over the last decade, including Bush.)
I just read a couple of articles about how the Republicans are trying to figure out What Went Wrong, basically involving lots of finger-pointing and “Mr. Bush, meet Mr. Bus.”
But if they’re serious about winning back voters, the very first thing they need to do is acknowledge their complicity in getting us into this mess. If the only excuse they offer for the past eight years is that Bush and Cheney were evil overlords who sucked the Republican Party dry of its soul while Congressional Republicans were powerless to resist, voters aren’t going to buy it.
Hell, even McCain had the stones to go back to Letterman and admit he screwed up.
Makes sense. The Republican Party has essentially collapsed as a national brand, but they still have the Southern cracker vote all sewn up. So they revert to the time-tested Rovian strategy of securing their base by obstructing Obama at every opportunity, and playing to the Jukes and the Kallikaks in their districts.
Perhaps the Senate is more inclined to support one/two of its former (and esteemed) members than the House. That's what I conclude from this. The Senate knows Obama and Biden and is more likely to understand what they want, but the House doesn't have a clue.
Mark Halperin is such an insufferable dipshit. He's actually suggesting it's Obama's failure that the stimulus recived zero RepubliKKKan votes. Fucking moron.
Very well reasoned, Dan Szymborski!
"if the stimulus package goes badly, the public's not going to blame the Republicans for obstructing the stimulus package, they're going to blame the pushers of the stimulus package regardless of whether that blame is appropriate or not."
Flat wrong! That's exactly the point!
All Obama will do is tell the truth: Bush & regressive tax and regulatory policies got us into this mess, and I haven't been able to get us out yet. But the very LAST thing we need is more of the same economic prescriptions of the last 8 years of Bush!
We've been down this road before! That was the point of my earlier post!
This is the Great Depression all over again. And Republicans are trotting out all the lying bold-faced idiotic proposals they had in 1934 and 1936!
It was "Roosevelt didn't solve the depression so give us a chance! After all, we're not running Herbert Hoover this time, so Hoover hatred won't be weighing down our party! We'll win this time on a platform of "a return to sound fiscal discipline" and "tax cuts" to "stimulate investment" and other right-wing shibboleths.
Well, we're heartily sick of that crap.
NO more of the same "across the board" tax cuts for the rich Bush tried and which miserably FAILED to produce more jobs -- the Bush administration jobs record was the worst in decades. So, all Obama has to do is say "this is the same warmed over 'trickle-down' economics that Republicans always propose. It's so predictable it's like a broken record."
They are intellectually bankrupt to the last degree! Republicans simply have no answers for the current intensifying crisis! We are so far beyond simple tax-cut fiscal stimulus that we're not even in the same universe any more.
Their old, outdated policies of the past are simply irrelevant to our current needs.
If they want to run on fiscal conservatism and tax cuts for the rich let them try! Obama won that argument in 2008 and Democrats will utterly CRUSH them in 2010 and 2012 if that's all Republicans can come up with, just as Roosevelt and the Democrats crushed the Republicans in 1934 & 1936!
Republicans are like the Bourbon dynasty of France, they never learn, and they never forget!
@mirrormirror: yes, equal pay for equal work has been the law in the US for a long time. But the Supreme Court played a scurvy trick: there is a six-months statute of limitations on such claims, which everybody always thought meant that you can't get back pay going back to the beginning of time, only back six months; but the Court ruled it meant you can't file a case at all unless it's within six months of the first paycheck that is less than somebody else is getting. Yeah right, good luck finding out what all your coworkers are making when you're a newbie on the job.
@Vinny: a 2/3 vote was required because it was brought to the House floor against the usual rules (which would have required all kinds of time-consuming preliminaries first). The House rules have a provision for suspending the rules, but anything done under a rules-suspension needs a supermajority.
This is all about politics as usual, a turf war against the new president, and an opportunity to make everyone look partisan.
Where were these "republicans" the last 8 years on tax breaks for middle america? Remind us about McCains tax break strategy was ... it sure wasnt this new republican deal.
I think there is a HUGE overestimate in regards to the incoming "death" of the Republican Party. Earlier there were complaints about disunity, but now their collusion on these issues is "proof" of their failings? I seem to be missing something here.
Sure, they are probably shooting themselves in the foot by voting against the stimulus, praying it fails; however, people will see this and think one of two things: (a) the stimulus package is a piece of crap or (b) the Republicans are overtly partisan and need to shape up. So yes, it may hurt the Republicans, but for not for a lack of leadership and cohesion, and not for bad ideas, but from poor political judgments.
Also, one must not forget whose hands the real power lies in: the moderates. They are the ones who make or break elections. One over-estimates their dedication to Democratic causes. In Pennsylvania, for example, they may support more liberal social issues, but on national security (read Iraq) and economic issues (read the bailout), they still hold conservative views.
Thus, the Republican Party's missteps do not give the Democrats a free reign without any consequences, for should they become to radical, the moderates will vote them out no matter what Obama does.
The only variable I see in this is whether the stimulus works. Maybe if it really is a panacea, then the Democrats can be essentially assured a victory. Even then, it matters what the concessions are made. For should the package be more moderate, no one party will have a monopoly on the credit should it work.
~Blair R. K. Shevlin
I did a double-take when I read "voted with the Administration". The last step in fulling internalizing the transfer of power: kicking the habit of reflexively interpreting that as "Bush Administration".
Finally.
By the way, was C-SPAN ever this interesting before?
Apparently the strategy is to see what the Administration is proposing, and oppose it.
The Democrats (either the Obama Admin or the Congressional majority) could propose cars that run on unicorn pee, have the leaders of the Big Three and the Unicorn union standing in the background as support, along with twelve world renowned unicorn pee scientists who all agree the plan would create eleven million high paying jobs and an immediate 100 ppm reduction in CO2, and the GOP leaders would find a way to get Faux to call it un-American.
Thank you, Amy Sullivan, for being the ONLY reporter to actually learn a little and report on what the "family planning" provision in the stimulus bill is all about. It is NOT what the Republicans were bitching about, and it is NOT anything that the left should get all uptight about not being in the bill. Rather, it is an esoteric fix to an esoteric requirement that means little beyond its use as a political talking point.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/01/29/the-family-planning-fracus/
It would seem to me - from my European point of view - that with the Republicans retreating to their base there should be a major window of opportunity for a third party to enter the political arena. I know that the political system you guys use is deliberately skewed against new parties (something I can truly not understand can be defended in a 'free country'), but still. If ever there was the possibility, surely this is it, right? A lot of people will feel at least slightly uncomfortable with not having a sensible opposition in place. Does anyone else see room and an available talent pool for a new major party?
WV: Redly. As in: almost, but not quite, entirely unlike the GOP.
Lennart, the mythical third party you write of would have to coalesce around some common issue or theme, and for some time, the leading 3rd party voices in the US have not been on the same page: Bloomberg, Perot, Nader (should I even mention Ventura?). Not to mention that they have often had a distinct problem with allowing others to carry "their" message. So, while I think a moderate, centrist third party is a reasonable option in theory, I don't see it happenening, especially if the Dems continue to sccessfully co-opt the middle.
That, and the money, of course.
This is so early in the Obama vs Republican contest that nothing is written in stone. Everything will be long forgotten by 2010. The strategy is to throw as much mud as possible and see what sticks. They honestly don't know what to do, so this is a search for a strategy, a strategy to find a strategy. It makes sense when you are so far back you have nothing to lose. They are hoping Obama makes a mistake, or at least does something they can interpret as a mistake to their advantage. That is Highly Likely, regardless of how well Obama responds.
What the scum are literally praying for, is that the ecomomy tanks even more, Obama makes a foreign policy blunder (Clinton with Somalia), or some national security crisis.
Remember when,last September and October,these scum were running around screaming "COUNTRY FIRST"?
Blair, where do you get the idea that moderates are against a withdrawal from Iraq and deficit spending to rescue the economy? And in Pennsylvania, of all places, where Obama won by about 10 points despite a huge push by McCain and Palin? Opposition to the Iraq War was a major reason for Obama's victory. The Iraq War is deeply unpopular with a majority of Americans and self-identifying liberals are a minority, so where does that leave your claims?
I agree. But it seems like there is still SOME value though, in an individual Republican being able to say "I voted against this unpopular stimulus bill," no?
The thing is, this relies on the idea the stimulus bill is in fact unpopular. Polling doesn't seem to indicate this. Gallup before the vote found a majority of the public supporting the bill (52 percent supporting, 37 percent opposed); even Rasmussen's more pessimistic poll showed a plurality [right on the margin of error] supporting (42% supporting, 39% opposing). Rasmussen's result also shows the support for the stimulus dropping from where it was before; but because this corresponds with a remarkably one-sided PR push against the stimulus over the last few days, this seems to imply this damage is reversible if the Democrats would just get out and make the argument in favor of the stimulus. In fact given how much of the opposition to the bill seems to be grounded in things that are just plain inaccurate (notice, for example, how many people in this thread alone are opposing the bill on the grounds of family planning measures that aren't even in the bill anymore) it seems like all the Democrats have to do to restore this bill to popularity (assuming Rasmussen is correct that popularity has been lost) is demonstrate some basic competence and go out and explain the bill to the public. At that point the Republican argument becomes... what? "I voted against the popular stimulus bill?"
Blair R. K. Shevlin said...
I think there is a HUGE overestimate in regards to the incoming "death" of the Republican Party. E. . .
Sure, they are probably shooting themselves in the foot by voting against the stimulus, praying it fails; however, people will see this and think one of two things: (a) the stimulus package is a piece of crap or (b) the Republicans are overtly partisan and need to shape up. So yes, it may hurt the Republicans, but for not for a lack of leadership and cohesion, and not for bad ideas, but from poor political judgments."
What continually amazes me is that there is anyone left in America who still believes that somehow, a combination of "fiscal restraint" and "tax cuts" -- primarily for the richest Americans, is going to solve anything.
We've just had 8 long years of that crap and it painfully didn't work. The jobs creation record of the last 8 years was worse than abysmal. It was literally the worst record of any president since WWII.
Do idiots think that was some kind of accident?
Tax cuts do NOT spur job creation. That's just a right-wing myth. The top 1% made record profits and laid off employees at the same time. The record of the last 8 years is proof.
Nothing the right-wing proposes has the remotest chance of producing MORE JOBS which is the ONLY thing that will help right now.
I's incredible that we have to reiterate Economics 101 and still there's arguments about it! We are a "consumer driven economy."
That means that people have to have money to spend or the economy collapses. Money equals jobs. No jobs, no money. No money, tight credit, no spending. No consumer spending = corporate failure and bank collapse. Corporate failure and bank collapse means more layoffs and tighter credit. More layoffs and tighter credit = less spending.
It's an endless downward spiral and "tax cuts" primarily for the richest Americans won't help a bit.
As a corporate CEO would YOU rush out to hire more workers if you got a big tax cut? NO! You'd squirrel it away and not spend it! Why not? Because you're still uncertain about the future. You'll try and get by with the employees you already have. I.E. THANKS FOR THE TAX CUT, BUT NO NEW JOBS!
How can anything be clearer than that?
I think everyone is using the wrong paradigm here.
The economy is going to suck in 2 years, and it will suck in 4 years. We weathered the subprime crisis with the help of $400 billion government dollars, but we're just starting to see the foreclosure rates take off in the next two risk categories. Our banks are still essentially insolvent, interest rates are at zero, and credit markets are moving like molasses. There is really not reasonable scenario in which this economy turns around in the next 2-4 years. Even if the stimulus package meets every reasonable expectation, we're still not going to be doing well when election day rolls around. Given that scenario, the GOP choices look like this:
1) Vote for the stimulus package. Set yourself up to run on social issues by basically siding with the Obama administration on economic issues.
2) Vote against the stimulus package. When the economy is still bad come election day, you can play the "Big Government Doesn't Work" card.
3) Filibuster the stimulus package. Be completely screwed by the bad economy because the Dems will blame you for the filibuster.
So option 3 is out. Option 1 doesn't play well to their base or big donors. Option 2 allows the Obama people to essentially dig their own political hole by forcing them to own the economy.
It really is the safest possible play for the GOP at this point to oppose Obama but still let him get his way. There's no fast way out of this mess, so you might as well make the other team carry the ball. Look what it did to McCain in the last election, after all.
But surely the phrase "ZERO Republicans voted for the Recovery Package" is more likely to escape Democratic lips on the campaign trail in 2010 than Republican ones.
How wrong you are. When the economy is still in the tank, and we are a trillion dollars poorer, who will get the blame?
MrIncognito, I agree with your analysis. All I disagree with is your downplaying of the economy's ability to recover. The recession is about to enter its 14th month already. That's already pretty long as recessions go. Sure, this is worse than most, but the odds of recovery are far from zero. Especially 4 years from now!
Taking a quick peak at Intrade data, we're looking at a 50-68% chance of real GDP growth by Q4 2009 and a 65-78% chance by Q1 2010, according to people who are willing to put their money on it.
Not to mention Nate's recent round up showing economists of all stripes showing recovery by Q3 2009:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/01/smarter-than-average-bears.html
Does any of this guarantee it? Certainly not. But don't tell me the odds are zero. A modest recovery in time for the 2010 elections are reasonably possible, by 2012 is fairly likely.
I agree with your assessment of why the GOP voted the way they did, but I think your assessment of the lack of downside risk is off the mark.
When you circle the wagons, then organize a firing squad, you end up with a circular firing squad.
Ready. Aim. . .
So, Republicans can only save themselves by acting like liberal Democrats. Bush tried that. McCain tried that. It didn't work. If people want a Democrat, they'll vote for the real thing. That's why there's move to get back to the roots that were both successful economically and in winning elections.
I would love to see proof that Bush(Bush?!) and McCain tried to "act like liberal democrats" and what republican ideas in the past 30 years were successful economically.
It won elections because people believed it, Reagonomics has been thoroughly discredited. The republican presidential candidates fell all over themselves to prove they were Reagan and look what happened. You nominated a guy that the Reagan's disliked and he got his ass handed to him.
I don't know if you have been paying attention but the staples of Republican economics: trickle down and a consumer based economy have failed in horrific fashion.
MrIncognito, I agree with your analysis. All I disagree with is your downplaying of the economy's ability to recover. The recession is about to enter its 14th month already. That's already pretty long as recessions go. Sure, this is worse than most, but the odds of recovery are far from zero. Especially 4 years from now!
Taking a quick peak at Intrade data, we're looking at a 50-68% chance of real GDP growth by Q4 2009 and a 65-78% chance by Q1 2010, according to people who are willing to put their money on it.
Not to mention Nate's recent round up showing economists of all stripes showing recovery by Q3 2009:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/01/smarter-than-average-bears.html
Does any of this guarantee it? Certainly not. But don't tell me the odds are zero. A modest recovery in time for the 2010 elections are reasonably possible, by 2012 is fairly likely.
I agree with your assessment of why the GOP voted the way they did, but I think your assessment of the lack of downside risk is off the mark.
My nickel's worth on this:
Personally, I can see what the House Repubs are thinking: if we oppose this stimulus package as more "liberal tax-and-spend" that benefits the "wrong" kind of people (namely, the usual scapegoats of the poor, the Black and Brown, working people (aka, "union bosses") and "big government"), not only do we satisfy our right-wing political base (and the corporate moneybags who fund the Right, too), but we can claim enough credit if the economy remains a failure down the road to bury "liberal government" and bring back the Reagan Era."
Problem with that analysis, though, is that the Reagan Era basically ended some 20 years ago, and most voters only remember two things: "Bill Clinton -- a Democrat -- gave us prosperity and turned a deficit into a surplus"; and George Bush -- a Republican -- pissed it all away on profligate excessive corporate greed and endless wars.
If the economy even improves even a modest bit under Obama, then the Repubs are essentially toast, because they will be seen by most Americans as obstructionists and retrogrades who simply hate Obama because he's not their kind of right-wing dogmatic. And who will be their flag bearer for the supposed counterattack: Mitt Romney?? Mike Huckabee?? Sarah Palin??? Give me a freakin' break.
Personally, I'd rather that Obama just ditch the phony "bipartisan" act and just put together the best and most expansive stimulus package good enough to pass with 60 votes without any "compromises" with the Repubs. (Actually, there's a sadistic part of me who would love Harry Reid to just sic the old "nuclear option" (the same one that Repubs threatened to use when they were forcing Scalito and Roberts onto the US Supreme Court) on any Repub even thinking of a filibuster...but I guess that would be overreaching.) But, if BHO's going to do any compromising with the Repubs, I'd suggest he focus on the more moderate Senators who might be more willing to go along with reality and just tell the Robert Bennetts and Dick Shelbys to take a short hike. And why not also use some of Reagan's tactics of going directly to the people to push the Repubs and the Dems into supporting this package (or, even better, improving it by taking out some of the dead weight "tax cuts" and replacing them with more infrastructure and social boost spending).
I'd say that the real threat for Obama isn't losing the moderates and enabling the Right, but compromising so much that he alienates the liberals, the progressives, and the groups that did so much to put him in power. The ingratitude and stubborness of the Far Right and the Limbaugh machine will do plenty to self-destruct themselves; why throw them any more bones or lifelines by giving them the legitimacy of "compromise"??
Anthony
I just don't buy a two or four year horizon for recovery. There are so many crazy bad things going on in our economy right now. Next on the horizon, the Alt-A and Option ARM loans could tank in the next year. (easy to digest version: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/12/60minutes/main4666112.shtml). The Banks haven't even started to take some of the write downs, and they're already talking about TARP being just the first of many bailouts to come.
There are some eerie similarities between the liquidity trap/downturn/whatever you want to call it we find ourselves in now and what Japan went through in the 1990s. That lasted a decade plus.
Economists are bad at predictions. They're good at explaining what happened, but they're not so good at the part that comes next. Intrade doesn't make me feel any better, either. The simple fact is that no one really understands what's going on now any better than they did this time last year when they were buying mortgage backed securities and selling credit default swaps to cover them. So I may be wrong too, but this is a much deeper hole than we've seen since the great depression, so I would throw out what happened in previous cyclical downturns out the window.
In any case, that seems to be the analysis the GOP is running with at this point.
"Blogger MrIncognito said... There is really not reasonable scenario in which this economy turns around in the next 2-4 years. Even if the stimulus package meets every reasonable expectation, we're still not going to be doing well when election day rolls around. Given that scenario, the GOP choices look like this:
1) Vote for the stimulus package. Set yourself up to run on social issues by basically siding with the Obama administration on economic issues.
2) Vote against the stimulus package. When the economy is still bad come election day, you can play the "Big Government Doesn't Work" card.
3) Filibuster the stimulus package. Be completely screwed by the bad economy because the Dems will blame you for the filibuster.
So option 3 is out. Option 1 doesn't play well to their base or big donors. Option 2 allows the Obama people to essentially dig their own political hole by forcing them to own the economy.
It really is the safest possible play for the GOP at this point to oppose Obama but still let him get his way. There's no fast way out of this mess, so you might as well make the other team carry the ball. Look what it did to McCain in the last election, after all."
You're absolutely right that this is the Republican strategy. But, it was the Republican strategy in 1934 and 1936 too.
As the nation descends into crisis, if the Republicans want to exercise power, they need to present real solutions.
"Let's give an across the board tax cut to millionaires" is not a solution to the liquidity crunch.
As a corporate CEO would YOU rush out to hire more workers if you got a big tax cut? NO! You'd squirrel it away and not spend it! Why not? Because you're still uncertain about the future. You'll try and get by with the employees you already have. I.E. THANKS FOR THE TAX CUT, BUT NO NEW JOBS!
How can anything be clearer than that?
Can Republicans really make a case in 2010 to give THEM back control over the economy, assuming that things are still getting worse in America?
They simply have NO solutions. The party is ideologically bankrupt with outworn ideas. And they don't understand WHY people turned from them in the first place, and can't face the fact that their conservative "fiscal restraint" "cut taxes" ideas are not going to convince anybody.
Just like the Great Depression was Hoover's responsibility, this one is Bush & the Republicans. They had control of the country as we slid into this crisis. NO WAY we're going to give them back control just because they say their magic mantra "tax cuts will be the magic pony that solves everything!"
The stimulus may not bring about a complete "recovery" of the economy - it is too small and contains too many tax cuts - but it will at a minimum stave off further disaster and give many people some help in weathering the tough times. People will see that and remember it when they go vote in 2010 and 2012. The Republicans are basically betting that won't happen, which is a terrible bet if you know even a teensy bit of economics.
Nate, you write:
"Perhaps there is some grander strategy here that, as a Democrat/liberal/progressive/whatever-you-want-to-call me, I'm simply not understanding."
I've come to believe that this isn't about strategy, or even about winning. I think the Republicans are starting to consider themselves as akin to a minority religious group. It's not about winning or losing anymore; it's about standing up for their principles. I think they even see losing as a badge of honor, because it means they stuck to their principles instead of playing the crass game of politics.
Given that many Republicans are already predisposed to fundamentalism and theocracy, this makes sense, no?
Nate, you're out to lunch on this one.
The Republicans know that, barring some new national catastrophe, Democrats will be graded on one thing and one thing only in 2010- the economy. The digital TV and Ledbetter Act votes will be something any Democrats will have in their campaign commercials in 21 months, and everyone knows this. As for the stimulus package, it's already not very popular and will be less so if the economy continues to suck. Obama's popularity will follow and his campaigning against them will bring shouts of glee- think Bush 2006 or Clinton 1994.
They're not in a "death spiral," unless you thought the Democrats were in one four years ago.
i saw this coming some time ago...i don't think the demise of the GOP will cause a Democrat Party split...a vacuum is always filled...
i suspect that one or perhaps two other parties will battle for the empty space left by them...i would imagine the Constitution &/or Libertarians to fill the space...
as far as observations about the House Republicans...they have no incentive to actually work in a constructive manner...in fact their support base provides incentives for them to obstruct for reelection which undermines the party as a whole...
wanting to shrink government enough to drown it in a bath is borderline ...if not full fledged anarchy
let's hope for America's sake these whack jobs are never allowed to wield power ever again
death spiral for sure
;-)
It's a shame that this has to occur, as America does need conservative values to counterbalance the liberal ones.
I think the Republican party, at the moment, is a bit like the Democratic party post Carter - and that's made worse by the total economic failure that occurred on their watch.
All through the last eight years, the Ghost Of Reagan Past has walked the castle walls and rattled it's chains, and the Republican's in the White House trumpeted the value of trickle down economics.
That turned out to be a golden shower of sorts, and the working and middle class were not the ones giving it.
This financial meltdown has shaken those movers and shakers, and current events probably will probably drive a stake through the heart of the Reaganomic vampire once and for all.
Clinging to the base isn't going to get this party elected, as you quite correctly stated.
Should the RNC continue on this same path, they may find themselves quickly deemed irrelevant by most of the American population.
It will be interesting to see where they will be in four years, given any sort of success during the Obama administration.
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クレジットカード 現金化
ダンボール
留学
水 通販
ウィークリーマンション
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有料老人ホーム
看板 製作
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酒店經紀人,
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酒店小姐兼職,
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酒店打工經紀,
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合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
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制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
菲
梵,
From cell phones users to see the specific situation of occupational segmentation in 2009, accounting for 19.5% of students dropped 21.2 percent over last year, other types of occupations than those last year, the proportion of Internet users cheap cell phones increase. White collar crowd from last year's 29.2% increase to 38.9% this year, accounting for 9.7 percentage points up to replace the student groups cellphone users as one of the biggest occupational hierarchy; blue-collar crowd from last year's 13.9% to 18.9% this year, accounting for rose by 5.0 percentage points, showing that mobile phones users by a group of students to the occupational groups a significant trend in the development. Ereli advice that, cheap cell phones and mobile phone users Internet users monthly income distribution of age, education, occupational distribution has strong correlation with high spending capacity of white-collar workers and some students in the crowd will be a huge cell phone china online potential consumer groups.
By comparing the traditional Internet users, Internet users to iResearch found that the traditional white-collar-based, cell phones wholesale, corporate general staff accounted for 18.9%, higher than the 5.6% of the wholesale cell phones users accounting; and discount cell phones users in the years students and blue-collar workers accounted for significantly more than the traditional Internet users, respectively, accounting for 19.5% and 18.9%, higher than the traditional Internet users Students and blue-collar workers accounted for 7.8% and 5.1% respectively.
The survey found that consumer 3G wholesale china from the crowd of view, the buyer 25 to 40 years old mainly white-collar workers, accounting for about 40%, followed by consumer groups of students, accounting for about three into. According to statistics, 3G wholesale products in sales, compared with a 2G mobile phone sales are still a wide gap between, but since June has been, 3G mobile phones increase in the average monthly buy products for more than 50%, "11" period due to holiday business, the increase of more than 150%. Pk that the "11" after the peak sales of 3G handsets likely to usher in more stable growth.
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