Lisa Murkowski had better hope that Sarah Palin doesn't elect to run for the Senate in 2010. That's because a Research 2000 poll conducted two weeks ago for Daily Kos has Murkowski trailing Palin 55-31 among Republican primary voters.
Sarah Palin had better not be so foolish as to challenge Lisa Murkowski. That's because a Dittman Research poll for the local blog The Alaska Standard shows her losing to Murkowski 58-31 in a prospective primary matchup.
Huh?
Alaska is perhaps the most difficult state in the country to poll. Its residents are in a strange time zone and keep strange schedules; it has very high rates of cellphone usage; it has highly unusual demographics. Several pollsters, including Research 2000, had no idea that Don Young would hang on to defeat Ethan Berkowitz in November, nor that Ted Stevens would come so close to Mark Begich.
Nevertheless, I think this is pretty unprecedented. Two polls of the same race show a 51-point gap between them, with one having Murkowski leading Palin by 27 points and the other having her trailing her by 24. Which one is right?
Actually, I'm not sure that this one is too hard to adjudicate. The Alaska Standard is an attractive and engaging blog, but its lead author, talk show host Dan Fagan, is most definitely not a fan of Mrs. Palin. In fact, although Fagan is a staunch conservative, virtually all of his posts are anti-Palin in some way, most recently regarding some controversy surrounding Levi Johnston.
Fagan very much is a fan, however, of Lisa Murkowski. Not only that, but Murkowski has written an article for this website, and is listed as one of its contributors along the side panel. The pollster, David Dittman, is also listed as a contributor.
So you'll excuse me if I don't find it terribly shocking that when this website decided to conduct a poll, it contained GREAT NEWS!!! FOR LISA MURKOWSKI!!!
I don't know whether Murkowski was directly involved with commissioning the poll in any way, but will presume that she wasn't. Nevertheless, the Dittman poll should be regarded the same way that a "leaked" internal poll is, which is to say very dubiously. And if Murkowski was for some reason involved in the creation of the poll, the fact that she feels the need to start spinning 18 months before a primary against an opponent who has yet to declare for the race and probably never will suggests to me that she's very scared of the 'Cuda indeed.
1.07.2009
Palin v. Murkowski Cold War Heating Up? Polls Show Contradictory Results.
by Nate Silver @ 8:50 AM...see also 2010, alaska, internal polls, palin
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55 comments
Nate Silver using the John McCain Great News meme is GREAT NEWS!!!!! For John McCain!!!!!!!
On a more serious note, while many of us that frequent this site have nothing but contempt for Sarah Plain (oops, Palin), we should not diminish Bible Spice's innate political skill.
She won election as governor of her state. She was the first female Republican vice-presidnential nominee. SHE was the reason that 40% of the electorate showed up to speechs with enthusiasm, no matter how misguided and potentially hate-driven it was. Right now, her natural political skills are counter-balanced by an inability to answer a Katie Couric question without looking like an idiot. That can be trained away. Lisa Murkowski has reason to fear a primary challenge.
what is it about Alaskans? I read the articles on that Alaska Standard site and it seems that there are a lot of wingnuts out there who will support Palin WHATEVER she does - just like they kept voting for Stevens, WHATEVER he did. So I guess the current incumbent of the senatorial seat may be in trouble if Palin wants it, because not only will all those fruitcakes come out to vote for Palin, it doesn't look like she'll care much about how she goes about fighting for it.
It would seem to me that if palin plans to run for president in 2012
she would not have any interest in the senate seat because they would already be up in Iowa by then.
Of course if Obama looks like a sure bet for re-election she may want the seat to get a couple of years of experience before she makes a run in 2016.
Part of the 51-point difference between the two polls is the mismatch between Alaska Standard's title, "Republican Primary" and the data they present in that graph, i.e. including all Democrats and Independents. Democrats can't vote in the Republican primary and Indpendents are far less likely to vote in a Republican primary than Republicans. Indeed, being Independent probably means that they have never voted in a primary.
Frankly, I would expect Palin to trounce Murkowski in the primary because her base is energized and would flock to the polls.
I'm curious - what do you view the difference between something like the DailyKos/R2K tracking poll for the election and the Alaska Standard poll? Both seem to be biased but significant blogs that hired legitimate research firms to do polls for them. Why is one given serious weight in calculations and the other dismissed?
I am still LMAO off at Bible Spice...too funny!
According to Google, the term Bible Spice was first coined by Alec Baldwin on "The Late Show With David Letterman".
I just loving typing Bible Spice.
Bible Spice
wv: jokedi - say Bible Spice too much and the jokedi
If Bible Spice somehow gets elected POTUS or VPOTUS, I will leave the country. No, really, I will be outta here. Pitbull in lipstick? No, Bush in lipstick - and that might be too big of a compliment.
I wonder what would be the best course of action for Palin. If she were politically smart (I think she is) - she would do a Hillary. Get into Senate and miss the 2012 election - which should be easy for Obama unless things go really bad. Then she can run for the 2016 - when the dem nominee might be Hillary.
If you're not a Palin fan, this is good news. Better for her to run for the Senate than POTUS. If you are a Palin fan (really, there are some) than you see this as a steppingstone to the presidency. My prediction: she'll have as much chance at the presidency as Dan Quayle. By 2012, her star will be dim.
OT but regarding the post a few down.
Is this Netroots Nation ball going to be a huge sausage fest full of a bunch of nerds or what?
I wouldn't mind hanging at some cool event the night before with good entertainment and all but if I show up and its a bunch of guys standing around acting all dreamy about Obama, I'm not sure I'd rly want to go.
Any thoughts?
A Senator Sarah Palin would mean The Daily Show and SNL stay funny.
I may actually start to watch the Senate on C-SPAN if Palin were elected just for kicks. Along with her using "You Betcha" on the Senate floor, I'm sure we'd see many other firsts, including the cutesy wave where she only uses the ends of her fingers to say hello, possibly some winks at fellow Senators, and lastly, Joe the Plumber would find himself somehow inserted into every piece of legislation she puts forth.
ldof - if you go, how could it be just nerds?
should be fun... lots of Dems arguing about how much Obama has already sold out, and slagging off MR, plus Silver's personal presence. What more could you want?
A little off topic but a fun analysis of the blue wave that has swept the country the last two election cycles. In the 2006 midterms the dems made 25 states have a net blue gain.
In 2008 they made a net gain of 19 states bluer. They actually made 22 bluer but republicans made 3 redder.
States that got bluer in 2008 but not 2006 include Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Illinois, Michigan, Alabama, New Jersey, Alaska and Oregon. So as Nate poined out a long time ago, the big difference in the electorate seems to be that the dems are starting o take over the West.
I can't really understand why Palin might want to run for Senate. The Senate as simply not as sexy as governing a State.
What I mean by got bluer or redder is that the state that had a net pickup in either governor, house member, or U.S. senator for the democrats or republicans.
Wow, this site is like, political hackery at its worst.
Lame. Can't wait for all you liars to be exposed.
RED ALERT!!! TROLL ATTACK!!!
Piss off Miss Malevolent
Wow, this site is like, political hackery at its worst.
Lame. Can't wait for all you liars to be exposed.
Welcome! I extend a laurel and a hearty handshake to our new troll.
Oh my. A political BLOG is filled with political hackery.
Perhaps if I go to ESPN or SI, I might find a sports blog filled with athletic hackery.
I apologize in advance for any lies I may have told and will rue the day they are exposed. Then, I shall make amends by only searching for absolute truth on the internet.
Burris to be seated - I told ya!
Palin in DC would be a hilarious gift to late night TV talk shows hosts and Jon Stewart - PLEASE elect her Alaska!
Alex S
The senate is a good place for Sarah Palin to polish up her political skills. Being governor of a low population state only gets you so far. Howard Dean was the governor of Vermont. If Senators Bernie Sanders or Jim Jeffords were to vacate their seats, Howard Dean would JUMP at the chance to become a senator.
Being senator beats being a talk show host. Being a senator beats being national party chair.
As many senators have shown us, if your state likes you, you can remain in the Senate until you die. You can possibly give the seat to your spouse/child/relative when you vacate the seat.
Most state tire of the same governor after two terms, even if there is no state constitutional term limit.
Finally, being interviewed by Fox/CNN/CBS/ABC/NHC in Washington DC is a lot better than interviews in Juneau and Wasilla.
Fred
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/roland-burris-senate-will_n_155895.html
Once Senator-Designate Burris was legally named by the legal (if slimy, tarnished and oddly coifed) governor of Illinois, it became a contest of crossing T's and dotting I's. Blago found a great candidate for his final eff-you, someone that could not be demonized for anything other than ego.
As for Sarah Plain, I sure hope this never comes to pass. I despise her politics and her methods. Then again, Ronald Reagan looked like an absolute fool in 1976 primaries. How did he do in the 1980 primaries?
2012 and especially 2016 are a long time away. Bible Spice could learn to polish up her off-the-cuff responses and become a "serious" candidate with gravitas. The idea makes me sick, but dismiss natural politicians at your own peril.
Quite possibly your most whorish post ever, Nate.
Harry Reid is friggin moron. If this clown Burris was gonna be seated at some point this week, it should have happened yesterday with rest of the class. That way they could have shoehorned Franken in, also. Now what, Burris gets seated and Franken doesn't?
And Harry Reid wants to be Majority Leader beyond 2015??? What fucking cheek!
BTW, Obama better not even think about picking another Republican to replace Richardson at commerce. It's bad enough that Gupta the big pharma shill is gonna be surgeon general without having more scum in the cabinet.
Joe the fake VA-
Yes, I agree. That is why I have said for days that Burris had to be seated, and it was the smart political decision.
Gupta as a big pharma shill?
Link please...
I thought he was just a pretty boy talking head, who knew?
Alaska is a truly back-assed state and always has been. Partly it's the lack of women in the state. There are too many brain damaged, frustrated, testosterone fueled wing-nuts out there.
If we let them they'd keep screwing things up until their state closely resembles eastern Europe after the fall of Communism -- one large toxic waste dump.
Sen. Palin? You betcha! She can vie with Jim Bunning as the stupidest and most ignorant senator (there's a lot of competition there though, such as James Inhoff ("Global warming is a myth) and Sen. Vitter ("I don't want to alarm anybody that New Orleans is like a big bowl that's flooding. That's just not happening.")
The problem with America is that there are so many stupid people -- and they LIKE having an idiot who's completely ignorant of, well almost everything, acting as their president. They loved Bush because he didn't make them feel inferior.
And God knows, we don't want a president who uses words that some retarded Tennessee Redneck can't understand!
If Palin had been on the ticket alone, without McSnore, she would have gotten several million more votes than he did. Just the "stupid vote" alone is worth at least 30 million votes and she's got that sewed up tight!
Harry Reid looks weak in the Senator-Designate Burris fiasco because he IS weak politically. My read of the situation, for the little it is worth, is that he is being hung out to dry as the fall guy for whatever President-Elect Obama cannot get passed.
Did I want Blago to name someone to the seat? Not really. Is Burris the best candidate for the people of Illinois? I have no idea. I do know that Illinois law puts it in the hands of the acting governor. Unless there is an FBI-tape with Burris offering/accepting a quid quo pro for the seat, most observers saw very little that could prevent his seating.
It is weak for someone in a leadership position to "take a strong stand" and then do the exact thing they said they would not do. A stronger leader would have expressed distaste and talked about attempting to prevent it, but would know where to spend political capital.
Cugel-
Some truisms do suck, like the one about half the people having a below average intelligence.
Agree Joe, Reid handled this terribly.
They're both amoral, corrupt pols. That puts them in good standing with Alaskans. I hope for Palin, she is most likely to crash in flames from greed.
explanation for irrational AK support for Palin [& Stevens & Young et al]
rampant drug abuse [especially Meth & Oxy] = distorted 'reality'
and apparently in AK, Mat-Su is the epicenter of the drug scene as well as the home of their dear ol' 'Sarah, Plain & Stoopid'...
coincidence ??? more likely direct correlation
discuss...
I love it when DCM channels Linda Richman. I'm getting verklempt. Talk amongst yourself. I give you a topic. Does Harry Reid ACTUALLY work for Obama even though he says he does not?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/dem-aide-obama-wanted-sen_n_155909.html
President-Elect Obama: Seat him. We do not have time for this crap. However, I defer to the Senate on this matter. (Last sentence thrown in to make senators and senate majority leaders feel better about themselves)
Well, this is all quite interesting. But you know, before jumping whole-hog into the 2010 races, it might be interesting to do some reviews of 2008. Specifically, I'd be interested in seeing 1) a review of the performance of various pollsters, as well as 538's pollster ratings; 2) a review of the performance of the 538 regression; and 3) an update of the electoral history charts, which I haven't been able to access for some time.
Good to see a fishy poll knocked for what it was.
Why is Alaska so difficult to poll? Voter turnout is usually pretty high by the voting eligible population (67.9% in 2008 and 69.1% in 2004.) See McDonald's US Elections Project site for this data.
My theory is that pollsters use mainland polling methods in a state that thumbs their nose at things associated with the mainland. You might have to use some sort of cluster analysis to see which political leaders back whom, and then statistically sample the followers of those leaders.
Look at this cute email I just got from John McCain. Didn't someone tell him to cut the "my friends" thing out yet?
My Friend,
In the time since the 2008 presidential campaign ended I have had a chance to reflect on many things. And as I said on election night, I truly cannot adequately express how indebted I am to you, my entire campaign team and my running mate, Governor Sarah Palin.
The road was a difficult one from the outset. Yet, your faith, your support and friendship never wavered. Just as I have proudly served my country for more than half a century I am as committed as ever to helping see our mission through.
So to continue the movement, I have decided to launch a new grassroots organization called Country First.
Today, I'm asking you as a friend and supporter to renew your commitment to our common goals by becoming a Charter Member of Country First with an online contribution.
Country First will allow us to strengthen our Party, better define our Republican ideals and message, recruit and back strong, dedicated candidates and continue our efforts to bring real reform to government by always putting our country and the noble ideals she stands for first.
Together, we can make government more responsive to today's problems and more answerable to the people. That's why I hope you will become a Charter Member of Country First and support our cause by following this link to make a generous contribution of any amount today.
With your help we can work to elect these new leaders to Governorships, Statehouses, the U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives in 2010 and beyond. Once in office they will become fierce advocates for limited government, economic opportunity, personal responsibility and strong national security.
On Election Night last year, I called on all Americans not to despair of our present difficulties but to believe always in the promise and greatness of America, because nothing is inevitable here.
Today, I am asking you to join Country First to continue fighting for the worthy cause of revitalizing both our democracy and our Party.
Our goals will never be realized if your voice falls silent. You are the best hope for our country's success. Please stay in this fight with me; our country needs your service now as much as ever.
I know that together we can make a difference - we already have. Again, I thank you for your unwavering friendship and support.
Sincerely,
John McCain
RE: Burris
How about this?
1. President-Elect Obama: Seat him. We do not have time for this crap. However, I defer to the Senate on this matter.
2. Harry Reid and other Dem Senators: We will not seat someone appointed by a governor accused of fraud associated with the open seat. This is legal because Mr. Burris does not have the seal of his Sec. of State.
3. Obama team: We seek to appoint Leon Panetta as head of the CIA.
4. Sen. Diane Feinstein (Chair of the committee which would confirm Panetta): Why did I not hear about this before it got to press? Are you trying to undermine me?
5. Sen. Feinstein: I support seating Burris. He was appointed legally. (And I'm willing to make trouble if you don't seat him.)
6. Obama to Reid: We have no choice.
7. Sen. Reid: We'll seat Sen. Burris.
8. Public: Sen. Reid is weak.
9. Fox News: Democrats seat candidate appointed by indicted governor.
10. Obama: Note to self-- tread carefully.
If I understand it correctly, the SoS of Ill. still needs to sign off on this. Until then, he couldn't be legally seated. Once the SoS signs off on this, Burris can show back up. Reid, having to uphold the law and having his hands ties, will give the Secretary of the Senate the go ahead to allow him entry now that his credentials are in order. At that point, he will be sworn in.
This will give the appearance Senate Dems won't just accept anyone with open arms just to get another Dem in a position.
For the record, Alaska has not "always" been politically backwards. Alaska was primarily working-class, union Democrat in its early days. The shift to conservative politics came with the oil boom.
Also for the record, if it comes down to it, I will change my party affiliation to vote for Sen. Murkowski over S.Pa in the Republican primary. And I'm not alone.
@Joe The Fake Virginian:
Unless there is an FBI-tape with Burris offering/accepting a quid quo pro for the seat, most observers saw very little that could prevent his seating.
It's not likely that there is such a tape. Blago would more likely have beeen buying than selling: he needed someone compliant to carry through with his big f-u appointment. Of course, with Burris' ego, Blago wouldn't have had to offer anything. I wonder what he offered to Rush, though.
I am fairly confident that Palin owns the Republican Party right now and need only assert herself to capture whatever it is she wants. This is as true in Alaska as it is nationally.
It will be interesting to see how party leaders react to the looming shadow she casts over Republican politics. No one in the party since Ronald Reagan has attracted such support. She is an asset that needs to be handled very carefully. Not least of all because the Democrat opposition continues to caricature and minimize her as they did Reagan. And what did that get them? Oh, about 25 years in the dog house!
On Blago and Burris I am betting that Burris gets seated and no deal is made. He is the presumptive candidate to succeed himself in 2010.
Re Blago I think Fitzpatrick shot his wad way to quick and ought to go out and get himself a tube of Mandelay.
Blago may be crass and profane, but what he did is normal for politics everywhere.
Those who protest his actions sound like Claude Rains in Casablanca: "I'm shocked . . . shocked that gambling is going on here!"
Blago will have the last laugh and will torment Obama and the weasel Emmanuel for years!
Let's see. Nate posts whorishly and is a douchebag. Republicans are hate-filled RETHUGLICANS or REPUGNICUNTS and they're against stupid idiotic DUMBOCRATS. What am I missing? LIBERAL LIARS? REPUBLICAN MURDERERS?
Discussion sites are only valuable to the extent that the participants can show some sense of decorum and respect for differing views, even when the views expressed are contrary to one's worldview.
You disagree with Nate's analysis of the Burris thing, whether it's the political or legal aspects? Fine. Poke holes in his actual argument.
Nate puts a lot of work into this site, just like he put a lot of work into developing PECOTA. I can speak from personal experience how much work goes into developing these types of models.
By being unable to maintain even a facade of civility, you're disrespecting Nate and his hard work. This obviously goes to the minority of the posters on this site, but it doesn't take a large minority to ruin it for everyone else.
I don't see it as a 51-point gap, more like half that. When one poll has candidate A up 51-49 and the other poll has candidate B up by the same margin, they're two points different, not 4.
@peterkent
So you are saying that Sarah Palin is the next Ronald Reagan? What had she done to make her become the next Reagan? Be pretty? Pregnant daughter? what? At least Ronald had two terms as a governor, and was able to read a good line because he was a b- actor.
Beside, the only time hollywood had ever been in the White house was when Ronald Reagan was president. and yet the republicans hate Hollywood.
I don't think it's fair to knock this second poll because the blog that commissioned it is anti-Palin. I don't care for that criticism hurled against me and my site's R2K polling, so I don't like seeing it hurled against others UNLESS there's evidence that the publication cherrypicked or skewed results or whatnot. That's why Daily Kos releases every question, result, and crosstabs we poll. Everything.
A better argument would be based on results. Everyone blew the House and Senate race, thanks to that weird and creepy "Bradley Effect" where respondents didn't want to admit they would vote for the felons.
On the other hand, one pollster nailed the presidential numbers:
Dittman: 52-41 (10/31-11/2)
R2K: 58-39 (10/31-11/2)
Hayes: 48-45 (11/2)
Ivan-Moore: 53-42 (10/17-19)
Actual numbers: 60-38
And surprising to me, it was the only outfit in the bunch that isn't based in Alaska.
Pow! Well done Kos.
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