My wish is Gallup's command. A new poll commissioned by Gallup and USA Today shows that 51 percent of Americans think that Roland Burris should be blocked from filling his seat in the United States Senate, while just 27 percent support seating him.
The results are a fairly close match for our unscientific poll of FiveThirtyEight.com readers; 57 percent of you are opposed to Burris taking his seat, and 43 percent in favor
I would say that I'm modestly surprised by these results. I didn't necessarily expect the majority to support seating Burris -- but, I thought he had become a somewhat more sympathetic figure, perhaps having some success in his myriad media appearances portraying himself as an innocent bystander (victim?) in all of this. What's interesting, though, is that there are not particularly large partisan differences in all of this. In the Gallup poll, Democrats were opposed to seating Burris by a 49-30 margin, and Republicans by a 61-25 margin. Americans seem to see this as a Good Government issue rather than a partisan one.
Still, as Chris Cillizza outlines, Harry Reid is left with few good options. The problem in a nutshell is that there's no easy way to block Burris from taking his seat. Doing so would entail several more confrontational and potentially embarrassing moments on the Hill followed by a protracted legal battle. Nor do any of the "deals" making the rounds seem particularly viable; Burris could tell read that he wouldn't run in 2010 in exchange for being seated, for instance, but nothing would bind him to that promise. Perhaps as a result of this, both a majority of our readers and the punters at Intrade think it more likely than not that Burris will eventually be seated.
The exception, of course, might be if Reid were to persuade the Illinois legislature to pass a special elections law, while probably allowing Burris to take his seat on an interim basis until the special election was held. There are numerous benefits to this: the special election option is quite popular both with Americans and Illinoisans; the Democrats could get Burris's vote in the meantime with little political fallout and no risk of a legal battle; and, if a Democrat won the special election, they would probably put the Rod Blagojevich issue to rest and enter as the heavy favorite in 2010, when the seat is up for a full six-year term.
The risk, naturally, is that the Democrats might lose the seat to Mark Kirk or another Republican. But given that all of the alternatives to a special election carry their own risks, we're getting pretty close to the point where it is the best option even from a zerosum, partisan perspective. And if a special election is anywhere close to the best option from a capital-D Democratic perspective, surely the fact that is the best option from a lower-case-D democratic perspective should carry some weight.
1.06.2009
Most Americans Oppose Seating Burris, But Reid's Options are Few
by Nate Silver @ 6:19 PM...see also blagojevich, illinois, reid, special elections
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59 comments
der... first!
the dems better figure out a way to take this out of the news and fast...it's certainly not helping them and they will be getting a lot of mediocre (at best) press for the coming few weeks with the stimulus package they are planning.
Is the best way to get this out of the news not to just seat Burris and stop being all self-righteous about this nonsense?
Is this not the same body that neglected to expel one Senator from Alaska who had been CONVICTED of multiple counts of corruption?
Sen. Reid's noxious attempt to take the reins of the Blagojevich story is pathetic and transparent.
If this does come to a special election, I'd be rather seriously worried about Mark Kirk. He held on to his (suburban Chicago) seat pretty tenaciously in 2006 and 2008, and I imagine he'd do well downstate also. It would be interesting to see who wins a Dem primary, especially if the result is somebody vs. Kirk.
wv: busliwo: Transit agencies around the country are experiencing busliwo(es) thanks to a combination of increasing demand, weird financial deals, and decreasing funding.
Special election is one way out, but I remain convinced that a legal battle is the best route. Sure, there's a good chance Reid and the senate would lose. (Maybe it will teach them about how sometimes you have to fight losing battles)
But it's about public perception. The public isn't going to look at Burris being seated as "Oh, well, they didn't really have any other legal choices." They'll see it as "those F***ing Democrats just wanted another vote, didn't care that the guy probably bought his seat."
Why? Because the average voter, doubly so with swing voters, don't really understand the system.
@Neil
Love that last sentence.
"In God we trust, all others....."
While I don't see anything that could legally block him from becoming the senator (except a missing signature from Jesse White, of course) I don't think it would be too prudent to seat a Blagojevich appointee; that seat ain't gonna be kosher.
reid shouldnt have been so vocal against this guy. i think he ought to be seated.
sandy is right it does appear to be a double standard against burris. lets not foget the MN bathroon senator either!
with coleman going to court this now becomes another demo seat in the senate that has entered into the twilight zone.
"Burris could tell read that he wouldn't run in 2010 in exchange for being seated"
"read"? Ouch. ;)
As stated before, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is performing his Kabuki Dance.
Right now, we are in the "Use technicial means to block seating short-term" method. This was preceded by the "shock, SHOCK!!!!" phase that Blago would actually call the bluff.
Next up, some good old-fashioned righteous indignation and bloviating as the Illinois Secretary of State is COMPELLED to sign the certificate.
Then, there will be collegial welcoming into the hallowed Senate chambers.
Super!!!!
Nate-
The other problem is that your plan is likely impossible because of the legalities.
Burris was appointed a full senator, legally, thus he must be seated or there must be a huge fight over whether they can not seat him or a huge fight over whether Quinn can revoke the appointment after Blago is impeached. None of this is a sure thing, but it is sure that IL cannot post a post-hoc law and somehow seat Burris provisionally.
Arrest Norm Coleman!
Let's be honest here, the ideal outcome is as follows:
-The public see that the Dems are not happy about Burris being seated
-The Dems get Burris' vote for the time being
-Burris is booted in 2010 at the latest
-A precedent for the Senate refusing to seat people is not established
That would seem to please everyone: those that say the appointment is legal and should be respected as such (because he does get seated) but also those that say Burris has been (fairly or not) tainted and is a liability.
And as Nate said, there are 2 ways to do this: seat him until a special election, or take it to a court challenge which they don't expect to win. Either way, Burris will get killed in either the 2010 primary or the 2009 special primary. Done
Making decisions to follow a poll, informed by media responding to partisan bickering, is not something to be endorsed. The decision whether or not to seat Burris should be based on the rules as they stand and explained clearly by the political leadership of the Senate. Changing the rules after the fact is a way to undercut trust and respect. Follow the rules strictly, make the decision and move on. The public will move on too. And if republicans complain, call them on hypocrisy since they fought against a special election for Trent Lott's seat in advance of the general election even though the rules seemed to call for one. Just don't wallow around like a politician that makes decisions on polls rather then principle.
Nate, my jaw continues to drop at how astoundingly idiotic and ridiculous you've become.
You're still just a third rate douche poltiical junkie who is posing as an informed pundit.
What a buffoon.
Of course it's a good government question.
Assuming the courts rule White must sign off, send it to Rules until Illinois sorts itself out. If Blagovich isn't removed, seat Burris. If he is, seat Quinn's choice and let the courts decide if Burris must be paid.
The damned political media and political bloggers (not to mention the even more damned commentariat on the commentariat that takes what they say and write seriously enough to comment on it) will have something very, very "inside baseball" to feast on (and they will) while the real work, hopefully, gets done.
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Is this adjusted for house effect?
Under no circumstance should he be seated.
There is no gaining his vote "temporarily" as his vote on any measure will drive away other votes. The GOP would love nothing as much as Burris being seated so they can use a "Burris agreement rating" in the 2010 Senate elections against incumbent Dems.
There is no reason the Senate, now in session, can't pass a resolution recogning the special circumstances and barring any Blago appointee from filling the seat. This could be backed by a parallel resolution in the Illinois legislature. The courts would not then negate both resolutions.
I demand a Norm Coleman style recount!
drive-by spamming and trolling
we just need insults and sock-puppetry to complete my 538.com BINGO card
Now back to your regularly scheduled "As The 538 Turns"
Where is the Illinois poll? I think those numbers would be different.
SEAT BURRIS, send the circus show to another town.
After today, the Democratic Leadership look like a bunch of clowns.
Off topic but Nate may have to change the name of this site.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dc/2009/01/as_washington_post_reporter_ma.html
D.C. Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton and Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT) and Orrin Hatch (R-UT) today did re-introduce the D.C. House Voting Rights Act, which provides a vote for D.C. residents and an additional vote for Utah. Utah missed getting an addition seat after the last census, Norton's office reports in a release about the legislation.
The re-introduced bill also provides two permanent seats to the U.S. House of Representatives, which would bring the number to 437.
Time to register 539.com
So, say Burris is allowed to take a seat as a caretaker for Illinois until a special election can take place, what benefits/perqs will he earn for his months of service???
i.e., is it in his $$$ interest to fight to take a seat, even as a short term/token one???
Minnesota Mike—
DC already has three electoral votes.
DC already has three electoral votes
Yes but the new law would increase the Size of the House by 2 members, not just 1. 437 Reps + 100 Senators + 2 extra EV's for DC = 539 total EV's.
I don't want to see Burris seated, but I don't see a legal way to keep him from being seated, and therefore think he should be seated, in accordance with the law.
Either way I don't agree that it's constitutional. You have to be a state to get representation, and the Constitution requires someone to be a citizen of a state in order to be a Representative.
Additionally, the Constitution specifically foresees Washington, D.C. when it gives Congress power to "exercise exclusive Legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States."
I'm sure it's not going anywhere, as well it shouldn't.
If the goal is to have Democratic Nominee for the 2010 Illinios US Senate as an incumbent running for re-election. The best option is to seat Burris- Have a Special Election in November 2009 with a Primary in June 2009. Whoever wins the 2009 Special Election will have to run for re-election in November 2010 for a full term.
Minnesota Mike—
My mistake. Since Hatch is still attached there's little reason to think it won't become law this time. It'll be interesting to see what the courts make of it.
I'm sure it's not going anywhere, as well it shouldn't
I don't pretend to be a legal scholar but have seen legal arguements on both sides of the issue. If it passes it would certainly end up in court.
That having been said it is almost certain pass congress and to be signed by President Obama. In 2006 an identical bill passed the House by a wide margin and fell just 3 votes short of breaking a filabuster in the Senate. With the Dem gains in the Senate they will almost certainly be able to break a filabuster and pass the Bill.
The people of Illinois deserve to have their opinion followed, for those of us in the other 49 states we're just spectators.
Let's be honest here, the ideal outcome is as follows:
-The public see that the Dems are not happy about Burris being seated
-The Dems get Burris' vote for the time being
-Burris is booted in 2010 at the latest
-A precedent for the Senate refusing to seat people is not established
And let's not kid ourselves - this is exactly what's happening.
The Senate majority leader isn't an idiot; he can certainly understand the constitution as well as random web blog readers. They'll take it as far as they can, until a federal court smacks it down, and then they can whine about 'we tried and tried to prevent it but the courts prevented us from doing so', and thus avoid (most of) the political fallout.
And there's really no danger in following this plan - unless Franken is seated very fast, the vote doesn't really matter; Illinois citizens clearly aren't going to be pissed that they only have 1 senator for the time being (both because they're disgusted by the entire mess, and because having a President from the state probably outweighs a junior senator); and Burris doesn't exactly have a huge constituency to piss off (unless this 'Reid is a secret racist' thing actually gains traction, which is so laughably stupid coming from the right wing that I don't see it happening). The worst possible situation for Dems is to be linked to Blago's appointment; if they're on record as doing all they can to throw it out, then they insulate themselves.
The truth, also, is that Reid is basically doing all he can at this point. Once he's actually seated, they can expel him, but before he's seated they might as well give this a shot since there's nothing else he can try to do. The STATE should have passed a special election bill, and I'd be shocked if the national party isn't heavily leaning on them to do so, but there's nothing the federal govt can do if the state refuses to pass it.
If the special election route is taken, even the worst case can't be that bad.
Mark Kirk, if elected, would be a moderate to liberal (pro-choice) Republican facing re-election in two years, in a state which is still highly Democratic and which is home to a popular sitting President. How many cloture motions could he afford to vote no on? How many would he even want to?
"If the special election route is taken, even the worst case can't be that bad."
I don't see how a special election can happen. The current Gov of IL has appointed a person to fill the vacancy, despite what Sen Reid says, there is no longer a vacant IL senate seat. Even if the IL Lege tries to change the law & circumvent Blago's appointment, I don't see how a court sides on the side of the Lege, when Burris already has a valid appointment to the seat.
I think for a special election to happen Burris would have to resign or be expelled, but I'm pretty certain the votes are there for that in the case of a special election law having been passed. The Democrats will support it because it is presumably at this point their plan and the Republicans will support it if they think Kirk has a shot at the seat.
There will be no special election in Illinois if for no other reason than Blago can sit on such a bill for 60 days before vetoing it.No Democrat in his/her right mind wants this poorly handled mess in the public eye for such a long period.
Burris will be seated shortly after the Writ of Mandamus is issued by the Illinois Supreme Court.
Innocent bystander???? How is Burris an innocent bystander???
It was obvious from the first day of this scandal that anyone who took this nomination from Blagovitch was drinking from a poisoned chalice. Burris has to be a fool to think that he can accept the appointment without destroying his integrity.
The game is simple: keep Burris from the Senate until next Wednesday, and then watch the IL Legislature impeach Blagovitch and have the Lt. Gov. appoint someone else or start a special election. Blagovitch will never seat a senator, and the fact this is Obama's seat makes me ill!
Chris Cillizza takes the ambient political air temperature at random points within five miles from the Capitol Dome and then reads it out as if it were immutable reality. It is simply nonsense that the U.S. Senate cannot successfully refuse to seat someone appointed by a governor who has been arrested by the FBI and accused by a U.S. Attorney of trying to extort bribes from prospective occupants of that Senate seat. Burris can sue if he wishes, but no federal court will go against the Senate in such a case. Hello? This is not just beanbag politics, friends -- it's the biggest political corruption case in decades. If Reid continues to resist Burris, Roland will be cooling his heels on the sidewalk until Blago is impeached and the Illinois lieutenant governor becomes acting governor and appoints a Senator who the state duly certifies.
everyones fun little kabuki may blow up in our face. Congrats. You have convinced the American public that burris shouldn't be seated and... Drumroll please...Harry Reid will be forced to seat him. More brilliancy from dems. I know why, but it still seems shortsighted to me.
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Nate, you've got to be kidding. There is no moral, ethical, legal, or even political rationale for a special election. It would be a big waste of money as well.
Bad ideas like this are the reason why Dems lose. Giving a freebie chance like this to republicans is crazy.
Hi Mr. Silver. Love your site and hope to see more of you on The Rachel Maddow Show.
Betting other scandal/corrupt governors like Jim Gibbons are happy that Rod Blagojevich and Roland Burris are taking all national attention off on them.
Just curious, are there any polls about the Blagojevich-Burris scandal senate seat that focus just on Illinoisan voters rather the entire nation?
I was opposed to him being seated, but now that Feinstein is calling for him to be seated, I'm waffling.
Now I just think they should seat him, and then immediately hold a vote to expel him.
Everyone agrees the Senate can evict him once he is seated, and that would end the entire sordid affair.
I think that should be followed by the Illinois legislature taking the appointment power from Blago, and holding a special election.
Burris showing up, claiming "I am the Senator from Illinois, and getting turned away at the door isn't doing any favors.
If Reid lets him be seated and holds a vote to expel him, it would be bipartisan, it would remove the issue from the headlines, it would preempt Burris lawsuit and stop Blagojevich in his tracks.
We need to get the Blagojevich scandal back to local Chicago news for it to stop interfering with Obama's agenda.
Hey, I think Burris already said he wouldn't run for reelection. Not Sure on this, I'll get back with another post once I have sources, but I think Burris had publicly offered himself to be seated in early december, saying that he wouldn't run again, and that he had no ties to Blagojevich, hence making him a good placeholder choice.
I found a source:
"Mr. Burris said at a news conference Saturday that he only wants to serve the remaining two years of Obama’s term, and would not plan to run for re-election. ... He also said he was 'appalled' by the evidence that has been presented against Mr. Blagojevich, and that he supported Ms. Madigan in calling for the Illinois Supreme Court to remove the governor from office."
--December 14, From The New York Times Caucus Blog
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/another-applicant-for-obamas-senate-seat/
Josh said...
If Reid lets [Burris] be seated and holds a vote to expel him, it would be bipartisan
The reason it would NOT be bipartisan is given in the next words of your post, specifically:
it would remove the issue from the headlines
The Republicans WANT it to stay in the headlines. They can obstruct the Democrats and President Obama's programs and legislation without appearing to be that obstructionist. The longer Burris is in the headlines, the less work they have to do to generate discord within the Democratic ranks in the Senate, not to mention in House, and the Democratic parties in each of the states, especially in Illinois.
It takes a 2/3 vote to expel. With 55 Democratic votes plus Saunders is 56. Would LIEberman vote for or against? Maybe 57. Would Franken be seated by then? Who knows.
And that is presuming that all Democrats would vote to expel. That, in and of itself, is not guaranteed.
With 98 current Senators, that means 66 votes are needed for the 2/3 vote, leaving a minimum of 9, maybe 10 or more, Republicans voting to expel.
Which 9, 10 or more Republicans would vote to expel?
The names I come up with are:
1.
2.
3.
In other words, none.
Michael Henning said...
Hey, I think Burris already said he wouldn't run for reelection.
In 1994, how many Republicans stated that they would not stay longer than 6 years in the House (the most 'popular' of the term limit proposals then in vogue), or 2 terms as Senator?
And how many stayed past their promise?
In politics, many times expediency beats promises. Burris impresses me as someone who would break a promise if political reality or political appearance makes it expedient to break a promise.
Doesn't the poll reflect the view that Senate positions should be filled by a special election -- not that people believe Burris is tainted? Unfortunately, the poll does not present realistic options. Would you prefer to drive to work or twitch your nose and arrive there in seconds? The vast majority would chose the latter option.
The special election is off the table, because Democrats feared a GOP victory. But this contradicts their argument that Blagojevich is so tainted that he is incompetent to serve as governor. Of course, this is just a bunch of political posturing anyway. The real deal: Blagojevich was already unpopular. The allegations against him provide his opponents with a convenient way to oust him. The allegations give Senate Democrats control over who gets to sit in the Senate -- which they would otherwise lack. And, ironically, it allows THEM to "bargain" (more subtly) than Blagojevich with prospective "buyers." If anyone believes that the moral indignation that the Democrats express over this reflects an honest position, then God bless you. Better than that: consider their positions on the Clinton impeachment - especially Reid: A Harry Reid Flip-Flop? Comparing His Views on Bill Clinton and Rod Blagojevich
Burris told Rachel Maddow two nights ago that after his Dec. 14 comments, his colleagues upbraided him for opting out of the 2010 election. He's changed course and is now willing to run in two years.
Dick Durbin is on MSNBC right now affirming Nate's original interpretation of the law and pointing out that since senator became an elected position 90 years ago, there has "never ... never" been an ejection for grounds cited by so-called constitutional experts on this blog.
Democratic leaders are not going to seat Roland Burris immediately, but are waiting for the outcome of pending court cases and Burris’ testimony in the impeachment of Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich before signing off on his entry into the Senate.
All of this could unfold before the end of the week.
Well, the patented Democratic table pounding, followed by a complete surrender like the French army at Sedan is now fully accomplished! Hurrah!
Harry Reid is officially an expert at shooting himself in the foot over and over again.
Was there really a down-side to allowing Burris to litigate (and possibly win) in Federal court? NO!! The Senate refuses to seat him. He sues and wins. They shrug and seat him.
Republicans can't use this to tarnish Democrats because they can blame it on the courts. NO legal precedent is established that future scumbag Republicans can use to hard-ball refuse to seat some Democratic Senator (and they would if they were in the majority don't kid yourself).
Win-win-win. Sen. Dem's save face, Burris wins in Court and is seated, no bad precedent is created.
But, of course that would require Reid to actually be something other than a total doormat who folds at the first sign of pressure. He'd have to hold out for several months, not 4 days.
And that thought apparently left Reid and other key Democrats trembling in fear.
So, here's the actual plan:
One aide said one complicating factor to reaching a deal is the fact the Burris is scheduled to testify at Blagojevich's impeachment proceedings in Springfield on Thursday.
Seating him Wednesday before those hearings could be problematic if embarrassing details emerge, the aide said.
So, Reid is forced to not collapse and surrender until after the Thursday impeachment hearings, when presumably nothing too incriminating about Burris will come out, thus enabling Reid to announce that he's withdrawing his opposition to seating Burris in light of the "evidence" that Burris is not personally "tainted."
That's a rather puny fig-leaf to cover a rather large fatuous ass, but it's nothing new to Senate Dems. Inventing pathetic and transparent excuses for waiving the white flag is part of their well developed culture.
You can take Chuck Grassley off your list altogether. His grandson told me he's running one more time then retiring. And Tom Vilsack will not challange him.
This is a little apples and oranges. I mean, the US won't be voting on the Senator from Illinois or any other state so the fact that they don't want him seated doesn't mean much. I would be interested (and I think Burris, Schakowsky, Hynes would be interested, too) in what the people of Illinois think about Burris as Senator.
In some ways this is the best result Reid can get, he "gets stuck" with another reliable democratic vote who he fought because of the corrupt process. And in 2010, a reform democrat will wipe Burris and the bad taste he and Blago leave away.
Why would a Secretary of State withhold his signature? If the Senate rules are similar to those for admitting delegations to the Electoral College, it would be so that in event of a new governor making an appointment (after conviction of impeachment or an election), the new governor's choice would have the Secretary of State's signature, and thus would be assumed to be the official candidate. White has signed because Reid no longer wants to fight. The Illinois Supreme Court is correct to say that Illinois does not require a Secretary of State's signature, but in the circumstances the Senate's rules would have precedence, given the constitutional power to judge its elections and returns.
"Return" has an Eighteenth Century OED definition meaning "appointments", in exactly this context (an interrim appointment of an MP by an English County Sherrif is a "return"). It is clear that this power was given to the houses of Congress specifically to deal with corruption of electors or appointments, and there is nothing in the 17th amendment or the Adam Clayton Powell Jr. case that would block that power in this situation.
The Powell case dealt with an unquestioned election of a corrupt individual (who probably could have been expelled). It did not deal with alleged corruption in the appointment of a Senator by a Governor under the 17th amendment.
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