1.28.2009

Just Five Red States Left?

Gallup is in the midst of releasing a series of data from the more than 350,000 interviews that it conducted over the course of its daily tracking in 2008. The first data they've released, on partisan affiliation, contains some sobering news for Republicans:



That's right: just five states, collectively containing about 2 percent of the American population, have statistically significant pluralities of adults identifying themselves as Republicans. These are the "Mormon Belt" states of Utah, Idaho and Wyoming, plus Nebraska, plus Alaska. By contrast, 35 states are plurality Democratic, and 10 states are too close to call.

Now then for a couple of caveats. Firstly, Gallup's numbers consist of interviews with all adults -- not registered voters, and certainly not likely voters. Depending on the particular application that we're using this data for, that may be helpful or unhelpful. What this perhaps indicates, however, is that even after all the millions of new voters that the Democrats registered and brought to the polls in 2008, there are still probably some marginal gains to be had, particularly in areas like the deep South that the Obama campaign did not really concentrate in.

Secondly, these totals include "leaners" -- independents who lean toward one party or another, but don't identify themselves as such. This tends to increase the Democratic margin by a couple of points.

Thirdly and perhaps most importantly is a point that both Michael Barone and I have raised at various times: one consequence of the Democratic coalition being larger, particularly as it tends to include a miscellany of groups that don't always see eye-to-eye with one another (African-Americans, Hispanics, coastal liberals, union workers, young voters, etc.), is that it is more difficult to harness the entirety of that coalition in national elections. A Democratic presidential candidate from the North might have trouble appealing to voters in the South. A candidate from the South might have trouble appealing to voters in the North and West. A theoretic "generic Democrat" might have a chance at a rather large majority -- but a "generic Democrat" is an abstraction, and most real Democrats will offend the sensibilities of some or another region. In Barack Obama's case, these were voters in Appalachian and "Highlands" states like West Virginia and Kentucky, states that remain highly Democratic at the state level but which have not recently voted for Northern presidential candidates.

Still, for things like gubernatorial elections and elections to the Congress, the Democrats' upside is very high, particularly if the party is smart enough to tolerate and accommodate a diversity of opinions within its umbrella. If party affiliation stays close to what it was in 2008, then giving the seats that are up for election, Democrats could very easily pick up another another 5-7 Senate seats in 2010, giving them not just a filibuster-proof majority but also a nearly veto-proof one. Party affiliation probably will not remain that way -- there is typically a shift back to the non-incumbent party after the Presidency changes hands -- but if it does we'll have a very blue Senate. In the House, by contrast, Democratic upside is limited by the presence of hugely Democratic urban and majority-minority districts, which suck up Democrats from the surrounding areas. The real fight in the House may be the redistricting that takes place after 2010 and not the 2010 election itself.

69 comments

Statler N Waldorf said...

Fiiiiirst!

janna said...

Kind of bites to work in Wyoming, where people think it's a GOOD thing to be Republicon.

wv:gorandep. Ummm...I'm sure someone cleverer than I could come up with something funny.

Carl Nyberg said...

How is the Democratic Party doing on tolerating members of Congress who criticize U.S. policy on Israel?

This seems to be an issue where there is significant divergence between the base of the Democratic Party and the people who get elected to Congress as Democrats.

Greg said...

I feel like this data is basically irrelevant. Sure, it gives Democrats the warm fuzzy feeling that most Americans consider themselves Democrats at least more often than they do Republicans, but what really matters is what do registered voters (and even more importantly, likely voters) think. These are the people that determine the political climate, and if the vast majority of a group is Democrat but the only people that vote vote Republican, then all of that Democratic support really doesn't matter.

Plannerama.net said...

Pro tip: Oklahoma might "lean Democrat" in the sense that 2/3rds of the voting population is registered Democrat, but they're all Dixie Democrats. Dig deeper, Gallup.

andrew said...

So at first, I looked at this map and thought: "how could this be"! Democrats don't win in Oklahoma! Nor are democrats real successful at the presidential level in places like KY.

But then I saw that this survey didn't screen out likely vs. unlikely voters. In other words, TX is a +2 Dem state when the general public is polled and non-likely voters are not excluded.

So here's the take home point: America is a VERY democratic country, but America is a very divided voting electorate. It kind of makes you wonder what we could do if everyone actually voted? (or we at least matched Republican participation rates).

BBill said...

not only did democrats not win in oklahoma, isn't that the state where they didn't win a single county???

Michael said...

@janna

wv: gorandep. To conservatives, the people behind the global warming movement.

John Galt said...

I love seeing this kind of analysis. It makes it clearly obvious that people like Nate Silver and the Far Left have clearly gotten their ego over-inflated to the point that they think a permanent shift is inevitable and a Democratic/Liberal majority is here to stay.

What a perfect recipe for a quick "re-balancing" of politics by maybe as soon as 2010 or 2012, but definitely no later than 2016.

Statler N Waldorf said...

Well, it's true that in the past the GOP has been better at motivating their base, not just to vote but to pressure their legislators. The Obama Campaign attempted to reverse that trend, with notable results-less emphasis was placed on more traditional methods like yard signs and more was placed on phone calls and an electronic version of the 'direct mail' campaigns that have been so successful for the GOP in the past years.

The US is primarily a Democratic country. I would even go so far as to say that the majority of Americans, if presented with his positions and no description of who said it, would find Dennis Kucinich's platform to be fairly mainstream. This is looking at the US as a whole.

The problem, like the previous posters have stated, is that large blocs don't vote. Under 35's are notorious for not voting, and alot of working class folks don't vote because they're at work on the big day or they simply don't watch the news and have little interest in politics.

That's primarily why Obama targeted those voters. It was bold and risky, because if it didn't work he would have spent alot of money and gotten even less votes than Kerry did. It paid off, however.

This may be the way of the future for the Democrats.

Sean said...

About Oklahoma - the Governor is a pretty popular Democrat. But as Nate notes Oklahoma dems are a lot different from New York dems and Oklahoma was the only state that McCain won all its counties. Still its hard to believe that there are more dems than reps in Oklahoma.

Kennyb said...

Sean, to quote from another Sean (Sean Quinn) in his On the Road series:

"WHEN THE WIND comes sweeping down the Oklahoma plains, it sweeps Republican red. Only once since Truman – the LBJ landslide – has Oklahoma chosen a Democrat over the Republican for President. Ironically, Democrats hold nearly every statewide office (governor, AG, treasurer, education secretary, labor and insurance commissioners, etc.), but at the federal level the only Democrat is Representative Dan Boren in OK-2, and he has not endorsed Barack Obama."

So, Oklahoma is a clear example of the "generic" Democrat problem Nate mentions above.

Kennyb said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Kennyb said...

Ah, Sean, you seem to have beaten me to Oklahoma City.

And John Galt, you'll like this, which I posted yesterday:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/01/election_review_moving_beyond.html

January 28, 2009 1:07 PM

Valpey said...

I find this compelling evidence of how badly damaged the Republican brand name is. I imagine a great number of self-identified "Independents" are essentially Republican voters who are no longer proud to admit that they are Republican and feel more comfortable refering to themselves as not affiliated with the party.

This is problematic for the G.O.P. as people who adopt this mindset find themselves less likely to accept Republican talking points on their faces.

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

Statler had a wonderful missive in another topic. About how the flag is NOT the most important symbol of the United States but the ballot.

Of course, notwithstanding voters v. adults in survey, and party affliation v voting patterns, the fact is that DEMOCRATS want MORE people to vote and REPUBLICAN want LESS people to vote.

Things like active voter suppression are less common than passive voter supression: negative campaigning, attack ads, giving "equal" time and response irrespective of truth.

Brian Jenkins said...

I agree with Greg- this data isn't relevant to the way people actually vote.

Obama lost every Republican and 'battleground' state in the Gallup survey (but he did get one electoral vote from Omaha). He also lost three of the six 'leans Democratic' states and four 'solid Democratic' states.

In addition, the 'battleground' states have heavily Republican Congressional delegations (45-32 in the House and 16-4 in the Senate). The 'leans Democratic' states also have GOP majorities (38-28 in the House, 7-5 in the Senate).

What this tells us is that there are still substantial numbers of Americans who call themselves Democrats but will never vote for one. This has been true for decades, and hasn't changed even with Republican fortunes at their nadir.

RufusRules said...

Now might be the time for Obama/Congress to institute compulsory voting.

King Politics said...

More evidence that the GOP star is fading fast. All the more reason for the GOP to choose carefully as it selects its next leader for the RNC. Also more reason to reject Palinian and Rovian politics that divide. The demographic future of America sided with Obama; it's past sided with McCain.

Statler N Waldorf said...

The GOP is running to a dry well

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

To those with Ayn Rand based names, know this:

The Supply-Side policies put in place by the Reagan "revolutiuon" have been debunked as thoroughly as ATLAS SHRUGGED. They are both in the same dustbin of history where one can find Marxist-Leninist doctrine.

In 1900, most people worked hard jobs six days a week, in miserable conditions where they toiled until they died. The business cycles of boom-bust were much more severe and economically innefficient. The only safety nets were large families and religious charities. People could not directly vote for their Senators, non-white non-male persons of age could not vote, either legally or by terror. Single people or corporations had monopolies in critical commodities and used the monopoly power to blackmail politicians and the general public.

In 1968, Grant Park was the home of the end of powerful liberalism. In 2008, Grant Park was the birthplace of its rennaissance. The republican party needs to get a new message or go the way of the Whigs/Know Nothings. Here is to hoping they do not.

Wayward Son said...

Having grown up in Oklahoma, I can explain the anomaly. In Oklahoma, if you want to have any say in your local elections, you have to register as a Democrat.

It is a self-fulfilling cycle: Democrats vote in closed local primaries; the winner then trounces an unknown Republican in the fall. New voters self-designate as Democratic in order to participate in the next primary.

This has no relation whatsoever to voting at the state or federal level, it is all a local phenomenon held over from pre-Civil Rights days.

juvanya said...

The problem is the electoral college and electoral districts create two parties. If we had proportional representation in Congress, we'd be more mainstream (to the left a bit from where we are). Hell, even adding 50 new districts would make the US more liberal. Imagine what adding 100 or 200 would do. Or the Wyoming plan that would add 131 new districts.

John Galt said...

The Supply-Side policies put in place by the Reagan "revolutiuon" have been debunked as thoroughly

I'd like to see the assorted theses, dissertations, and other research to back your assessments. Of course, it won't do you much good as I have ten times the evidence supporting the free market and laissez faire capitalism.

You are just an insignificant blowhard on a liberal blog. Regurgitating talking points from Keith Olbermann does you no favors.

You can spin the election as a major triumph for liberalism by trumpeting the success of "underdog Obama" as he overcame gross inexperience, a funny-sounding name, his race, and relentless inaccurate attacks from his political opponents and translated that into a solid victory and electoral landslide....OR you can be rational and see that Bush and Republicans have largely been held responsible for running the country in the ground, have been strongly repudiated by public approval ratings (only 21% approve of Bush), and have been politically maligned in almost every way imaginable over the last 4 years, YET THEY STILL managed to get 46% of the country to agree with them on election day and still control 40%-45% of the national Legislature and state governemnt positions (governorships), so if you think for one second that the vast majority of America has opened up its arms wide to liberalism, you are in for a grave disappointment.

Evan said...

"Pro tip: Oklahoma might "lean Democrat" in the sense that 2/3rds of the voting population is registered Democrat, but they're all Dixie Democrats."

To follow-up on this, I'd like to say having lived in Texas for six years, I can tell you that Democrats in TX are Republicans anywhere else!

Steve said...

I gotta say, as an Austinite, Texas is nowhere hear "too close to call." Texas is bright bloody scarlet. We elected John Cornyn MORE THAN ONCE, fer crine out loud.

Horrific.

thatmarvelousape said...

Joe,

I, for one, would welcome a return of the Whigs. We could use some economic nationalism in this country. The Whigs were, after all, the true party of Lincoln.

Statler N Waldorf said...

Here,s a repost of the thing Joe referred to earlier:

Statler N Waldorf said...

Fly,


If you think democracy is too expensive...

have a look at what happens when you suspend it.



The freedom of the American people to elect their own representatives in government must never be compromised, and the price tag is no excuse. This is no empire, monarchy, or dictatorship. Our common bond is not linguistic, racial, ethnic, or religious. It is an idea; the idea of a representative democratic republic for whom the ultimate arbiter is the citizenry itself.

As such it is only fitting that we encourage direct participation int he most fundamental way-voting-at every opportunity we can. By doing so we tie our government to the popular will, with every election a stitch in the fabric of our democracy. Accountability improves, and the governor of a state cannot impose his will at the federal level when the people of his state has sentiments opposite his own.

Every election is worth every penny. The suspension of democracy is never worth it, no matter what temporary gain you may receive in time or money. In the long run, we must have representatives that do our will, and the only way to ensure that is through elections.


If I had my will, we would have elections every day, and I would wave the ballot int he air like a flag. For those who panic at the desecration of the flag do so at the destruction of a symbol. The ballot is the real banner to which we should rally, and it's desecration is far more of an offense to our nation than any burning rectangle of cloth.
January 25, 2009 9:03 PM

W. Andrew Arnold said...

I can respond with only what I know: South Carolina voters may not self-identify as Republicans by numbers significant enough to satisfy the survey, but they will vote AGAINST Democrats in sufficient numbers to keep this state mostly red. Conservative South Carolinians are against much more than they are for, and so, this might skew surveys asking questions about who they support.

If South Carolina is not identified as a red state in the survey, then I cannot take it seriously, despite all the caveats and explanations.

Chachy said...

"most real Democrats will offend the sensibilities of some or another region. In Barack Obama's case, these were voters in Appalachian and "Highlands" states like West Virginia and Kentucky"

This is the conventional wisdom, and it is wrong. Obama's problem wasn't Appalachian voters - it was southern whites in general. He actually did worse among whites in the Deep South than in Appalachia. See here.

Wayward Son said...

Chachy:

I saw that report earlier... based on the included statement that "All data are from exit polls or election results.", I am uncertain how much trust to place in the conclusions.

I can see how an exit poll might be useful, although we spent months debating whether people tell the truth. But how exactly do 'election results' tell you ANYthing about the social or ethnic makeup of the people who actually voted? Does a ballot have a race?

2008 was a groundbreaking election, with many people voting who had not done so before, and a good number of people who may have skipped the entire thing in dissatisfaction about either candidate. The author doesn't make it clear, but it looks to be when exit polls were not available or complete, the original author simply went by the overall makeup of the state. That is exactly the sort of false assumption about turnout that would end an honest column immediately.. with an embarrassed 'we don't really know' in parentheses as a conclusion.

felix said...

mormon belt?

don't you mean jello belt?

Chachy said...

Wayward - I'm not sure I totally follow. I think you're basically saying that exit polls can't be trusted. Is that right? If so, I guess I would just say that if you don't trust the exit polls, there's not much to talk about, because I don't know of any other data which describes the way voters voted in terms of race, age, class, etc.

But if you accept the legitimacy of exit polls, the numbers do back up what I'm saying: in the primaries Obama did just as well among whites in Appalachian states as in Deep South states, and in the general he did clearly better among Appalachian whites than Deep South whites (the latter being, of course, more Republican.

51st Ward Precinct Captain said...

Wayward, your general point is well taken, and of course it would be useful to see something based on precinct-level vote analysis before conclusions may be accepted as valid (a ballot doesn't have a racial identification, but residential segregation still exists and, I have to believe, may be reflected to a considerable degree in demographic composition at the precinct level --or at least it sure as hell is where I live and vote, and it's been used in scholarly analyses of elections in my city). So we may have to wait a while.

Anyway, moving on: I too love seeing this kind of analysis, but for a different reason: it rarely fails to inspire a predictable round of finger-wagging, never-let-the-caveats-stop-one-from-popping-off, don't-be-counting-your-permanent-majority-before-it-hatches bluster from those on the losing side.

As bad as sports fans, I tell ye ("But y'all haven't played anybody yet --and anyway, just wait till next year!").

In any case:
House Democrats win by 10.53%: The final popular vote percentages were 53.08%--42.55%, giving Democrats a 10.53% victory. This is the largest popular vote percentage victory for either party in either a Presidential or Congressional election since 1984 (the next largest victory was Bill Clinton with 8.51% in 1996). It is the first double-digit victory for any party in a national election in 24 years.

Now cue the predictable bashing of the source of the data and analysis; Wikipedia's tallies, which I don't believe to have been updated for a while, have it at 53.04% to the Dems and 44.16% for the GOP --a spread of 8.88% and still larger than that of '96 (and some of this has to do with the fact that votes for candidates running under the banner of minor parties got assigned, as appropriate, a D or R affiliation in the data set used in the first link; also, significantly more Democratic than Republican House candidates ran unopposed by candidates of the other major party in '08).

As I'm fond of saying, though --don't anybody let a sore ass stop one from spouting trusty memes in the wake of defeat. Anyway, read the links and draw whatever conclusions. Something in "Oh yeah? Well, we're gonna smear you guys next time" sounds about right.

Hoosierbrad said...

With all of the Republicans still living in fantasy-land, like I see on quite a few blogs, and with demographics the way they are, I can see the demise of a vibrant two-party system of government, in my lifetime. It is too bad, the Republicans do have valuable service to give to the country, it is too bad they have been taken over by neo-cons, religious ideologues and flag waving idiots.

Adrian said...

I've done a 16-page report of the 2008 election, containing Pres, Senate and House results and analysis, and a brief history of US electoral politics since the Civil War. You can see it at the Green Papers.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G08/AdrianBeaumont-Obama-swings.pdf

Adrian said...

For "in any case", I was using the green papers tables too for my House results. They must have altered slightly since; my tables say 53.01-42.6 to Dems.

Bug said...

What a horribly flawed piece, done after 8 years of Bush and 6 years of GOP Congress.

With the flipside of that moving forward, the blame of all failures, real and imagined, will be placed on the incumbents. All of this will shift.

Another Mike said...

It's incredible how much Democrats dominate Republicans in this survey. But, we know the electoral results have not been nearly as dominent.

Seems like two possible explanations, with the real answer some combination of the two:

1. A greater number of people identifying as Democrat than Republican in the survey are not voting; and

2. A greater number of Democrats vote Republican than vice versa.

To the extent that it's #1, then Democrats have a greater upside if they can motivate their people (and perhaps a greater downside if people become more apathetic in voting). To the extent that it's #2, then maybe Democrats have an easier time of bringing these voters home, but really the map distorts Democrats electoral chances if these people are counted on to vote Democratic.

DCM in FL said...

ugh, I gotta agree with the BUG on this one...

deeply flawed due to timing & questions asked... try it again in 6 month intervals for a real trend to develop.

rather than DEM or GOPer as the only real choices, a better measure would be on a CON to LIB/progressive sliding scale of support - but that would miss out on social VS econ mores too

a DEM in CA & NY is not a DEM in GA or OK or many other states...

plus the timing of this poll fails to factor in the temporary bandwagon effect as the low-infos jump on the 'winning' popular team

the results will not corelate directly at the ballot box - for instance GA = DEM +4 yet Saxby won in a walk in the runoff

still, as a progressive [a default DEM because it is the only major party that even could be considered at all 'liberal'] - this would seem to be good news & much netter trend than a sharp stick in the gut...

then you get your Gillibrand blue dawg 'dem's - and you have yourself another Republi-Crat...or is Kirsten a Demo-Can(t) ?]

Keith Franklin said...

The best news here is that we can look forward realistically to another foreign-set Tom Wait concept album, with a hit like: I'm Big In Twin Falls; I'm Big In Twin Falls.

Tom said...

When I saw the headline for this post, I guessed: Alaska, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, and Oklahoma.

But Nebraska instead of Oklahoma? I don't think so.

Wayward Son said...

Chachy:

No, I'm not saying 'exit polls can't be trusted'. We all know the caveats with them.

I'm saying that 'election returns' can't be trusted.. if you are trying to reflect the racial or ethnic patterns of the state involved. Ballots don't have an ethnicity or a race. So no valid conclusions regarding race or ethn icity can be drawn about those results without either relying on exit polls, or relying on untested assumptions about the state as a whole.

Let's say the state of Example was 88% white, and voted 50% for Obama and 50% for McCain. Does that mean 44% of whites voted for Obama? Possibly. Does it mean the 12% of non-whites all voted for Obama, and he got only 38% of whites? Possibly. Does it mean a ton of whites who would have voted against him stayed home? Possibly.

All of those results, and many more, are possible, and untestable, using 'election returns'. As flawed as they are, exit polls are the better method of 'guessing' at the ethnic makeup of an electorate.

So when a person is trying to make a point about 'who voted for Obama', and they refer to 'election results' as a basis for their conclusions.. I immediately suspect they started out with a goal, and found the facts they wanted to support it.

michelinas said...

A lot of the southern and midwest states (Oklahoma) identify as Democrats on the local and state level (social conservative Democrats) but almost always vote Republican in national races.

Gadfly said...

Like MANY other posters here, I laugh when I see Oklahoma identified as a Dem state. Nate, why did you even post this crap when you know it's crap?

harold said...

John Galt -

"I'd like to see the assorted theses, dissertations, and other research to back your assessments."

This is a rather unbelievable statement. Every developed economy has been a mixed economy, combining markets with regulation for the common good and a social safety net, for over sixty years.

There are two simpleton ideologies in economics - the demand for a completely centralized command economy (usually referred to as "Marxism") and its mirror image, the delusional idea that all socially cooperative regulation must be arbitrarily forgiven.

"Of course, it won't do you much good as I have ten times the evidence supporting the free market and laissez faire capitalism."

Of course you don't have any evidence supporting laissez-faire capitalism. There is none, and there is no such thing as laissez-faire capitalism, and never will be.

But it certainly won't do anyone any good to try to argue you out of your rideology (I'm addressing your post for the benefit of third party readers).

Clarissa said...

Isn't the trend in national polls since at least the last major realignment (depending on if you count an ambiguous undated Nixon/Reagan realignment as having happened or if you count the last realignment as FDR - Obama might have caused a new re-alignment- ask me in 20 years) that the Democrats have a significant identification and registration advantage in the electorate while Republicans had a smaller self-identifying core and relies more on independents for support.

What we saw in the national polls were the I's becoming completely disenchanted with Republicans and moving at least one step over (weak Dems to strong Dems, leans Dem to weak Dem, no lean to Leans Dem, Leans Rep to no lean, Weak Rep to Leans Rep) in how they responded to pollsters. Whether it was simply a public shame/W backlash/shy Tory effect or contained a more permanent shift it was there and national tracking polls regularly gave Dems +7 in ID while the poll was taking place. It would be more useful to compare with the 2004 Gallup survey map though.

romeovoid said...

The opinion poll puts Texas in the competitive category? The Democrats do not have a single state-wide office holder,and it went solidly for Mccain in 08. What gives?

racetoinfinity said...

I hope redistricting after 2010 will include Texas, where Tom Delay and Karl Rove did a shameless job of jerrymandering the Congressional districts.

Priv A. See said...

Hurray - We're locked into a two party system where both parties have no interest in the success or welfare of the People.

Hurray! We're dominated by one of those two parties! That means the wolves of both parties have pulled the wool over the eyes of the people, making them think that a unified one party system is any sort of democracy!

Yay! Democrats rejoice when they see this article, Republicans Cringe! Yet none of them realize that domination from any party throughout the United States is a REALLY bad thing and indicates a huge problem in our current political system.

Buuuut.... uhh.. Good luck with your rejoicing in our two party system.

Until you guys wake up, we're hosed.

J said...

"Results are based on telephone interviews with 355,334 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted in 2008 as part of Gallup Poll Daily tracking"

I cannot concieve of a circumstance under which I would discuss my political views with a stranger who cold called me. I'm speculating, but of the people I know, the overwhelming majority of those I think would lean left.

Having lived in both coastal areas and in the middle of the country, I can assure those who haven't that party affiliation does not have the same connotation Oklahoma City or Memphis that it has in San Francisco or Boston. I believe most politicians affiliate with a party based on the probability of electoral victory, not core principle.

信次 said...

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ass said...

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ass said...

By comparing the traditional Internet users, Internet users to iResearch found that the traditional white-collar-based, cell phones wholesale, corporate general staff accounted for 18.9%, higher than the 5.6% of the wholesale cell phones users accounting; and discount cell phones users in the years students and blue-collar workers accounted for significantly more than the traditional Internet users, respectively, accounting for 19.5% and 18.9%, higher than the traditional Internet users Students and blue-collar workers accounted for 7.8% and 5.1% respectively.

ass said...

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