So now Harry Reid is in trouble for apparently having told Rod Blagojevich that he didn't want Jesse Jackson Jr. to fill Barack Obama's Senate seat. Nor did he want Danny Davis or Emil Jones, who are also African-American candidates. Reid apparently "did not believe the three men were electable", according to the Sun-Times.
Right now, with Jackson's name being at least tangentially tied up in the Blagojevich scandal, he might well have a difficult time winning statewide office in Illinois. But these communications between Reid and Blagojevich apparently took place before the scandal broke, so let's concern ourselves with that hypothetical. Was Jackson electable then?
In the literal sense of the term "electable", of course Jackson Jr. was electable. Before the Blagojevich scandal, virtually any Illinois Democrat was going to be the favorite over virtually any Illinois Republican. One only need back to look to 2006 when Blagojevich himself, already relatively unpopular in Illinois, defeated a fairly appealing, moderate Republican in Judy Barr Topinka by 10.5 points. Having the big 'D' by your name is exceptionally advantageous in Illinois -- or at least it once was.
Nevertheless, I don't think that Reid was wrong to conclude that Jackson Jr. was relatively more vulnerable to an upset than another Democrat might have been.
On December 4th, about a week before the Blago scandal broke, Rasmussen released a poll asking Illinoisans who they preferred to succeed Barack Obama. Jackson Jr. was named by 23 percent of Illinoisans, essentially putting him in a three-way tie with Lisa Madigan (25%) and Tammy Duckworth (21%).
A look at the internals of the poll, however, suggests that Jackson's support was fairly limited outside of his base.
Candidate preference by party:Candidate DEM Indie GOPNearly all of Jackson's support came from Democrats, among whom he was the plurality favorite to succeed Barack Obama. He placed a fair bit behind Madigan and Duckworth among independents, and received very little support among Republicans.
Jackson, Jr. 36% 14% 9%
Duckworth 29% 19% 12%
Jones 2% 3% 6%
Madigan 17% 23% 37%
Schakowsky 8% 9% 5%
Unsurprisingly, these results are strongly tied to the issue of race:
Candidate preference by racial group:Candidate White Black OtherJackson had the support of 81 percent of black voters in the Rasmussen poll, but just 10 percent of whites. He did do reasonably well among those in the "other" category -- which in Illinois, means mostly Hispanics -- getting 21 percent support, though he still trailed Duckworth among that group.
Jackson, Jr. 10% 81% 21%
Duckworth 22% 6% 31%
Jones 2% 4% 6%
Madigan 31% 0% 23%
Schakowsky 9% 2% 5%
Now, it is hard to translate the results from a straw poll like this into a prospective matchup against a Republican opponent. But a reasonable worry for Reid is that, while African-American voters would probably have supported another Democrat in a matchup against a Republican, white voters who might have gone for someone like Madigan might not have gravitated to Jackson.
In the 2006 gubernatorial race, Illinois' turnout was made up of 77 percent white voters, 10 percent black voters, and 13 percent "other". Let's say that Jackson Jr. received a turnout bonus among black voters, boosting their share of the electorate to 12 percent, bringing white voters to 75 and leaving "other" at 13. Let's furthermore say that Jackson Jr. wins 95 percent of the black vote -- a Barack Obama type of number -- and 60 percent of the "other" vote. These Jackson votes account for a total of 19.2 percent of Illinois' electorate.
In order to receive a majority, Jackson Jr. would then have to win the support of just slightly over 41 percent of white voters. In Illinois, about 35 percent of white voters are Republicans, 35 percent are Democrats, and 30 percent are independent. What if, say, Jackson received the support of 80 percent of white Democrats, but just 35 percent of white independents and 5 percent of white Republicans? That would bring him to 49.4 percent, denying him election by a point or so.
Hypothetical 2010 Election:___ Share ofNow, obviously these numbers are completely made up. Perhaps Jackson Jr. would get more like 70 percent of Hispanic voters instead of 60 percent, or more like 85 percent of white Democrats instead of 80 percent. All that I'm saying is that given Jackson's tepid support outside of his base, there is a plausible path to defeat here, one that might not have existed for someone like Madigan.
Group Electorate Jackson Jr. GOP
African-American 12.0% 95% 5%
Hispanic/Asian/Other 13.0% 60% 40%
White Democrats 26.25% 80% 20%
White Independents 22.5% 35% 65%
White Republicans 26.25% 5% 95%
===================================================
Total 100% 49.4% 50.6%
I do share rikyrah's concern over at Jack & Jill Politics. If Reid was looking for someone electable -- should he really have been looking at Tammy Duckworth? The fact of the matter is that Illinoisans have gotten to see an awful lot of Tammy Duckworth, and they simply don't like her all that much -- note that she's getting barely more crossover support than Jackson in the Rasmussen poll. Duckworth also couldn't defeat a non-incumbent Republican in Illinois' 6th Congressional District in 2006. Although IL-6 is a slightly Republican district, registering as an R+3 on Charlie Cook's PVI scale, 2006 was a very, very Democratic year. Democrats were knocking off Republican incumbents in R+3 districts all over the country in 2006, and they certainly should have been favored in an open seat race. I'm a pretty big proponent of the No Loser Rule: don't nominate someone for higher office if they lost their last race for lower office.
In all probability, though, this seat would be considerably more vulnerable to Republican takeover if Jackson were the nominee than if Madigan were instead, or for that matter someone like state treasurer Alexi Giannoulias.
If Harry Reid hadn't expressed that concern to Blagojevich, then Harry Reid really wouldn't have been doing his job.
NOTE: To be clear, my argument is about Jackson Jr. and Jackson Jr. only, who along with Madigan and Duckworth, has strong enough statewide name recognition that we can credibly discuss their chances of winning election. I don't particularly know about Davis, or for that matter someone like Jan Schakowsky, who are little known outside of their home districts. In particular, the implication that Jackson is more likely to lose than Madigan seems credible. On the other hand, the implication that, say, Davis is more likely to lose than Tammy Duckworth is far more speculative.
1.03.2009
Is Jesse Jackson Jr. Electable?
by Nate Silver @ 1:24 PM...see also 2010, blagojevich, illinois, reid
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47 comments
Maybe.
So if we wanted an African-American to fill the seat, who does that leave us with?
Why would the Senate majority leader make such a call ?
Isn't this the job of the DNC & the DSC [senate] - which I believe is/was Schumer in the last election cycle ?
From Reid this appears as distasteful meddling - very Bush/Cheney 'ROVIAN' [like the GOPer meddling directed from the WH in the SD Daschle election] imho
So if we wanted an African-American to fill the seat, who does that leave us with?
Michelle Obama.
Check your math... White Independents add up to 110% in the hypothetical Jackson/GOP matchup.
More proof that Harry Reid is a complete ass. Can we get a new leader when Bush leaves, please? Prety please, with sugar on top?
The "no-loser" rule seems pretty stupid. Wasn't it only in 2004 that Illinois Democrats nominated a little-known state senator who had been thoroughly humiliated in his race for Congress?
Nate, I enjoy this type of analysis, however, I think that this may be too speculative and your numbers are too conservative. It reminds me of the exit poll that said Hillary would have won by 11% in the general election. But there was no, you know, campaign. If Jesse Jackson Jr. can readily count on the support of 49.4% of the Illinois electorate in 2010 using a conservative analysis, it may not be a stretch to imagine him winning the election easily.
Right now, he hails from Barack Obama's home state, where the President-elect remains immensely popular and Jesse Jackson Jr. was an early and vocal supporter of his. He is a civil-rights-oriented African-American which will create another psychological connection to Obama, which may outweigh his connections to his controversial father.
I think that you may be lowballing his potential support with some of your numbers. Unless if Obama has a very unsuccessful first 2 years, I sincerely doubt that 20% of white Illinois Democrats will defect to the GOP, and it also seems unlikely that 65% of white Illinois Independents will vote Republican (you have a small error in your chart which shows 75% in that column).
Using similar logic to yours but being slightly more generous, I would suggest that he is likely to receive 52.475% of the vote, which includes 85% of white Democrats, 40% of white independents, and 65% of Hispanic/Asian/other, while keeping the rest of your numbers. The Other category, especially, is less likely to put off by the supposed racial white/black controversy surrounding Jesse Jackson Jr's father, and I would suspect he would likely match Obama's performance in that demographic(s).
After all, this is a state where Obama got 61.9% of the statewide vote and Dick Durbin had him beat with 67.8%! It's hard to imagine the Blogo scandal carrying over to 2010 in such an intense way that the GOP actually can win the Senate seat. But you never know -- in politics, 2 years is an eternity.
Too bad Mark Twain is long gone and unable to comment on the numbers and polls in this post. I feel like I am having my tail twisted by statistics and contests with hypothetical GOP candidates. With a little extrapolation it would appear that the best way for democrats to hold Obama's seat would be to enlist a republican for the job with the promise that they would caucus with (though not necessarily support) the democrats.
Estimating Jackson's statewide appeal after two years in a Senate seat based on his current appeal from experience (and campaigning) in a single congressional district is a poor use of statistics. I don't think the data at hand is useful in predicting Jackson's appeal in 2010 if he were to serve for two years as senator and conduct a campaign to appeal to the citizens of the entire state instead of his single district.
Harry Reid need to stay out of our backyard, here in Illinois.
That article in the Sun-Times have just made folks mad. Who is he to say who is electable or not? God?
We went through this very same shit with Barack Obama. How many times did we here, "no white people will vote for him", or "why is the black vote not for Barack"?
Please after a historic election, we have to now read about our Senate Leader denouncing 3 black candidates? If any of you were black, wouldn't you wonder about a racist tinge here? And now reading at politico, that the senior senate dems are now pushing Dan Seals. An AA who ran twice for Mark Kirk's seat in IL-10 and LOST both times?
And get this, Obama had Jackson Jr. on his short list to ascend to his seat, but certainly not Dan Seals.
Reid messed this up, big time.
In response to icebergslim, I agree. I can't think of a single thing that I am proud of Harry Reid for doing. That guy needs to go.
The netroots need to mount a credible primary challenge to him in Nevada, so we can be rid of him once and for all. And unlike the Connecticut debacle, I think it's very unlikely that he will run as an independent, and I think a true progressive can win in Nevada thanks to Obama's newly registered electorate.
Nate
You yourself just proved that if Harry Reids main concern was "electability" then Duckworth was no more "electable" than Triple J. Really thats enough said when you think about it because it proves the fallacy of his argument that he just wanted someone electable appointed. He phucked this up and no matter how many polls are listed it still comes back to that plain and simple fact.
By the way, if Obama does a good job in the next two years any Democrat he would support in Illinios would win that job hands down AND Triple J WAS on Obama's list of prospects for his seat. To not point that out is pretty disengenuos if you ask me.
iceberg-
Agree completely. Now if Harry "Racist" Reid turns dwon Burris he will put another nail into the coffin of a Democratic win in IL in 2010.
Way to go Harry! IF you aren't racist, you sure just put yourself out there in a way that means you should be removed, and quickly.
sugerfunk-
I think Harry just earned a maxed out contribution to any dem willing to oppose him in NV, from me.
those 3 sure as hell aren't electable and Emil Jones is as useless a politician as the state of Illinois has ever had.
Good call, Harry.
Sherrif-
Jesse was probably electable before the Blago affair, and that is when Harry prognosticated.
"No Loser Rule" is stupid.
Barack lost a congressional race in 2000. Under th NLrule, he wouldn't have been nominated for the Senate.
Ditto, Bill Clinton, who lost his first political race, running for congress in 1974 (a huge Democratic landslide cycle).
etc. etc. (ie Feinstein, bob casey...)
There is little reason to believe that Lisa Madigan especially wanted or wants the job; she has had her sights on Governor and has the inside track for the job by far.
Identity politics is important and rules out Jan Schakowski (White Jewish Liberal North Shore Woman? Won't pull either the urban or the downstate vote.) But Obama having won proves that a reasonable candidate can pull enough downstate White voters to win statewide when coupled with a solid urban victory margin.
Duckworth also would do well statewide.
Jan Schakowsky was my rep up until I moved a few months ago. She great -- a real progressive. I don't know how good a chance she'd stand in a statewide race. I worry her politics would be too far to the left to get any votes downstate, and might hurt her in the collar counties. She also has one scandal to deal with -- her husband ended up having to plead guilty on some fraud charges. Schakowsky wasn't involved, but it's a vulnerability -- especially since the candidate will have to present him- or herself as squeaky clean.
I'm partial to Lisa Madigan despite the fact that her attempt to temporarily suspend Blago was a Hail Mary without legal justification. But she did look serious when she claimed it could be done.
All things being equal, could we get former Senator Carole Moseley Braun back? That way we'd have an AA woman with sterling liberal credentials. And someone who knows her way around Capitol Hill.
"One only need back to look to 2006 when Blagojevich himself, already relatively unpopular in Illinois, defeated a fairly appealing, moderate Republican in Judy Barr Topinka by 10.5 points."
Topinka was appealing? Really Nate? My theory in the Blago reelection was that both were corrupt hacks who would make horrible governors. Blago had been around longer, so his corruption would come to the surface faster. This would put added pressure on him to be a good governor, to distract everyone from his corruption (Mayor Daley style).
I don't think IL has any remotely good politicians with Obama gone. And the Dems will still probably win most important elections; Blago didn't take that much off of the Obama hype.
Nate based on your "No Loser Rule" Barack Obama shouldn't have been nominated for the senate in 2004 because he lost to Bobby Rush in 2000. I think there's a big difference appointing someone who lost for lower office to a higher office.
I am absolutely NO FAN of Harry Reid. I am one in a long list of Democrats that would like to see him replaced.
That said, Nate has just shown how Harry Reid could very legitimately believe Jackson would face a tough state wide election. In this and this alone, I agree with Harry. He did the exactly right thing in suggesting Blaggo not appoint Jackson.
Just because Harry told the truth about the vulnerability of a black candidate does not make him a racist, it makes him a realist. There are times to call the race card, this is not one of them.
Reid thought there were better candidates before Jackson Jr was revealed as "candidate 5", backed by those willing to pay 1.5 million for Obama's Senate seat.
Reid has been proven absolutely right. Jaakson Jr was a flawed candidate and is a flawed candidate. I'm glad Reid didn't let the thought of being wrongly accused of racism stop him from making the right call.
Thanks for the link, Nate.
Jesse Jackson, Jr. - IF he couldn't win after doing the retail politicking that he and his wife would have to do - and he lost in a Democratic Primary in 2010 - ok, so be it.
Illinois is the ONLY STATE to send TWO Black Senators to the Senate.
BOTH of them from Chicago.
BOTH of them not known outside of Chicago's South Side before they ran.
JJJ has been working coalitions and building bridges since the moment he entered Congress. He's made some choices that had folks question him; taking chances on unknown politicians that weren't typical. Some won. Some lost.
If you look at his RECORD - just on paper: a working man or woman...a working family farmer, would have to say that Jackson was on THEIR side.
Plus, they now know that he was snitching on Blago.
I believe he should have the chance. He'd have to get out of the 2010 Democratic Primary. But, if he won that, then the rest of the Pary apparatus should be enough to help him over the hump.
And, I have serious issues with Reid believing that he knows JACK about Illinois politics. I do know that any Hand-picked Negro, like Dan Seals, will be Dead.on.arrival.
Period.
Harry the Mormon is a bundle of joy, isn't he?
Seriously, can we have Russ Feingold as majority leader now? PLEEEEESE!!!
Pre-Blago, I was for either JJJ or Lisa Madigan being appointed to Obama's seat. Then I was for Jan Schakowsky being appointed, providing she retires in 2016 and Michelle Obama runs for the senate. The whole situation is just a mess right now. Blagojevich is a GIANT pain in the arse and I don't entirely trust Patrick Fitzgerald.
Clearly Lisa Madigan is the hottest prospect in Illinois politics now that Obama has reached the top. Ideally, Michelle Obama pulls a Hillary becomes senator in 8 years and Lisa Madigan eventually wins Dick Durbin's vacated seat down the road. That's the best scenario I can come up with.
Oh yeah, and JJJ is electable. Fact is, if President Obama likes you, you're pretty much in.
Franken +223
Obama was supposedly unelectable in 2004 and 2008.
Reid will lose his seat in 2010.
new MN senate thread upnow...
WV - UNKLES
will Norm finally say 'unkles' ???
Believe me, any Democrat could beat the two Republican frontrunners Kirk and Roskam right now and unless Obama is an abject failure that'll still be the case in two years.
And take any unsourced rumors, and that's all this is, from either Chicago major daily these days with a grain of salt.
What would have happened if Valerie Jarrett or Danny Davis were also in the poll?
It's funny how white folks never get tired of hearing this record.
He's black. White people won't vote for him. But there's no racism here.
Where do I go to sign up to join another race?
Looking at the Demographics in Illinios.
25% White Republicans
25% White Independents
25% White Democrats
15% Other/Asians/Hispanics
10% Blacks.
Any black Democratic candidate from Illinios whether it is
Jesse Jackson Jr,Bobby Rush,Danny Davis,Dan Seals or Carol Mosely Braun will get 90% of the Black vote and 70% of the Hispanic/Asian vote. They will get 80% of the White Democratic vote. and 10% of the White Republican vote.
The Black Democratic Nominee for the 2010 IL US Senate Race will start out with 41% of the popular vote.
The White Republican Nominee for the 2010 IL US Senate Race will start out with 34% of the popular vote.
That leaves us White Independents- The Black Democratic nominee will have to get at least 40% of the White Independent vote to win in the general election.
I don't expect Jacksonjr,Rush,or Davis to get over 40% of the White Independent votes.
The most electable black candidate for statewide office in IL is Dan Seals- the 2006/2008 Democratic Nominee for IL-10CD or Joyce Washington the former Democratic candidate for LT Governor in 2002 and US Senate in 2004- She is a former Nurse and Health Care professional and State Senator James Clayborne- from Saint Louis IL- Downstate.
White Democrats like Madigan,Hynes,Gianolous,Schakowsky,and Duckworth will get 90% Black vote,70% of the Hispanic/Asian vote, 90% of the White Democratic Vote, 10% of the White Republican vote and 50% of the White Independent votes.
The Democratic Nominee whether it is Madigan,Hynes,Gianollous,Schakowsky,or Duckworth will defeat the Republican Nominee- Kirk or Roskam by a 55-45 percent margin.
Harry Reid made a dumb move here. He let Republicans filibuster w/o consequences, he is now doing his best to alienate segments of the Democratic base (needlessly.)
I want to see DeMint reading from the telephone book as the GOP argues for more capital gain tax cuts (who's selling assets at a profit anyway?) during a filibuster of a stimulus bill.
I might be able to understand his concerns if it were a legit swing state like PA or VA, but IL? Given the current anti-GOP mood, the GOP will need a dead girl or a live boy to win in IL. Total fail on the part of Obama might change that but two years is an eternity in politics.
The best idea is someone like Burrus, who has no real agenda post-2010. That'll give the real contenders time to get things together.
Or, perhaps, to leave the seat vacant, and agree to a special election in May or June (to allow Obama's programs a few months to sink in and for Blago to be ejected from office.)
Blagojevich will be Blagojewho in 4-6 weeks as Obama introduces legislation, makes an inaugural address, etc. Right now with the economy not collapsing and Obama/new Congress not yet in office, the media is filling up cycles with Blago.
Unless Jarrett or a close FOB (Friend of Barack) gets really tangled up in this, this is simply not going to hurt Obama. Obama is going to have a honeymoon until June.
Nate, I think you're off base here. Prior to the Blago blowup, did the Republicans really have a chance? And even if they did, was Jesse Jackson Jr. in particular going to get in trouble over it, given that he's been an effective campaigner who has specifically distanced himself from the Chicago Machine?
To me, Reid is further demonstrating his cabbage-like ineptitude and his fundamental moral weakness as a politician and in particular as a floor leader. Its like battered wife syndrome between him and the Republican spouse he thinks he's involuntarily manacled to. Whatever happened to the feisty Gaming Commissioner who stood up to the mob?
No black candidate has ever had the opportunity to be elected until there was Barack Obama.
Down state whites would never let it be done. I was happy when Obama made the cut. But I would be surprised (maybe even shocked) if any others could get elected.
Connie, it seems to me that Carol Moseley Braun was rather effective at brushing off the competition back in 1992, taking out a Downstate white male three-term incumbent in the primary and then crushing Rich Williamson in the general to become the first black Democrat ever elected to the US Senate. And all that from the position of Cook County Recorder, which is about as hacktacular a machine position as you can get. But it seems to me the Downstaters rather warmed to her, despite being a card-carrying member of the Chicago machine and taking out their hometown favorite son in the primary.
Nate, I think it's worth noting that Herry Reid is denying the claims of the "sources" in the Sun-Times article.
GREGORY: All right, but let -- let’s talk about those conversations you had with Governor Blagojevich. Apparently you made it clear that three men were not acceptable to you: Jesse Jackson Jr., Danny Davis, Emil Jones. And yet you just said Jesse Jackson would be fine.
Is that what you said, that these men would not be acceptable?
REID: This is part of Blagojevich’s cloud. He’s making all this up. I had a conversation with him. I don’t remember what was in the conversation, other than the generalities that I just talked about. I didn’t tell him who not to appoint. He’s making all this up to divert attention...
GREGORY: Don’t you think these conversations are on tape...
REID: Of course.
GREGORY: ... for the U.S. attorney’s investigation?
REID: I’m -- I’m sure they are. That’s right. And that’s why what he’s saying -- he’s making it up.
GREGORY: So he’s wrong? Jesse Jackson Jr. was always acceptable to you?
REID: Jesse Jackson Jr. is somebody that I think would be a good senator. And for Blagojevich to start throwing out these names of people who I wanted and didn’t want, he’s making it up.
Re Nate's 'no loser' rule - I understood it to apply to *appointments* to higher office, not to *nominations* to run for election, either to the same office that the person ran for earlier but lost, or to another office. History is full of distinguished politicians who did not get elected on their first try.
However, it is fair to say that someone should not attain high office directly, i.e. without election, after the voters have rejected him/her at an election.
Re style: it makes no sense to refer to "Jackson Jr." He is "Jesse Jr", but he comes from a long line of Jacksons, and is not just "Jr" in that line. If he has a brother, that man could also just as accurately be described as Jackson Jr, but not as Jesse Jr.
I think discomfort with this formula is why most of the comments here either spell out his full name or use some variant, like Triple J - because "Jackson Jr" doesn't work. Considering that we all know after the first line of the original post who is being discussed, simply saying "Jackson" is good enough. If one has to mention his father by name, then the formula would be "Jesse Sr", or "the elder Jackson" or some such.
It is looking like almost anyone nominated to this position will be under a cloud of suspicion in 2010. You really are better off with a Special Election. Even then, it is risky, not just because of a potential GOP win, but it is also possible that a Democratic winner could still have to battle suspicion in 2010 if they were ever even casually connected to Blago, which I imagine almost everybody probably was in some capacity.
Whoever decided to pull the trigger on this FBI sting sure picked one shitty time to do it. Had something been arranged quietly things could have gone better. Imagine thsi scenario: It's November 2008, and Blago announces that he will resign to spend some more time with his family or for health reasons before the New Year, and will be leaving the Senate appointment up to Pat Quinn when Quinn becomes governor. Nothing looks too suspicious, and while the thirst for vengeance is left unsatisfied, there is no mess in the papers and the Senate seat is filled quietly and without any drama. By the time the scandal hits, Blago is safely out of office, the public's in a more forgiving mood, both sides suffers a lot less than they will now.
Whoever pulled the trigger must have known this. Either that person was GOP and wanted one last potshot at the Dems, or they were Dem and too stupid to realize the blowback that would result.
Nate, as much as I respect your work, I believe it is misleading to be making these assumptions about Jackson Jr. before the potential candidates have even had a chance to make their case to the people of Illinois.
These are the same asumptions that were made about Barack Obama when he entered the race. And we know what we found out.
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