...is that the Minnesota Supreme Court's order (.pdf) today didn't make any judgment whatsoever about the merits of Coleman's case on absentee ballots. It merely said that the time to resolve these things is during an election contest, not during the recount itself. And since there's an election contest coming, Coleman's argument will get, quite literally, its day in court.
Coleman's problem, however, is not so much that his argument is legally unsound but that it's not especially likely to benefit him even if the Court rules in his favor. The Court had previously asked the counties to double-check their absentee ballots and identify any that might have been rejected in error; the counties did that, and came up with a collective 1,300 or so. The process the Court set up required both campaigns to agree on a ballot before it was counted, and about 400 ballots were vetoed by one or the other campaign. The other 900 were forwarded to the Canvassing Board and were counted on Saturday.
My guess is that the 400 vetoed ballots have a pretty strong chance of being counted at some point. (Will they benefit Coleman? Given that the absentees that were counted went strongly for Franken, the odds are probably not.) But this is not the subject of Coleman's claim -- instead, he's stating that there are some 650 additional erroneously rejected ballots that the counties missed during their sweep of absentees.
What Coleman wants the Court to do, in other words, is to order that the counties re-re-examine their absentee ballots. What might happen if that takes place?
First of all, I doubt that very many of the ballots on Coleman's list of 650 are going to be found to have been rejected improperly. Remember, the counties have already sorted through their absentees at least twice -- once on Election Night, and then a second time in accordance with the court order. Some counties, in fact, have even gone through their absentees a third time in accordance with the wishes of the Coleman campaign, and where they have, such as in Ramsey and Pipestone counties, the counties found that all the ballots on the Coleman list had been rejected properly. The process is somewhat analogous to vacuuming your floor; you aren't going to gobble up nearly as much dust on your second sweep through the living room as you did the first time around, even if you'd done a haphazard job. So this is problem #1 for Coleman. His list of 650 ballots is going to be significantly pared down, and will probably wind up closer to 65 than 650.
Secondly, those absentee ballots are sealed, so we don't know how many of them will turn out to be votes for Coleman. Presumably, the Coleman campaign thinks that the ballots are more likely than not to favor him, or he would not have included them on his list. But "more likely than not" might mean 50% Coleman ballots, 35% Franken ballots, and 15% other. If all 650 ballots were counted with those percentages, Coleman wouldn't get more than a 98-ballot net gain, less than half of his present deficit with Franken.
And thirdly, precisely because the ballots on Coleman's list are likely to favor Coleman, that also means there is some undetermined number of ballots that were also rejected in error but which are likely to favor Franken. Let's say that the Coleman campaign is sorting through a spreadsheet of rejected absentee ballots, and identifies one from Stanley Terwilliger of Eden Prarie, Minnesota, who has voted Democratic in every election since 1964, contributed $2,300 to the Franken campaign, and once got in an ice hockey brawl with Norm Coleman's twin brother Lars. Is that ballot going to make Coleman's list? Uh, probably not. But if the Court ordered a comprehensive re-recounting of the absentee ballots, it probably would get swept in -- and would turn out to be a Franken ballot.
Let's be frank: Norm Coleman doesn't have much of a future in electoral politics. Defeated Presidential candidates sometimes have nine lives, but defeated Senatorial candidates rarely do, and in his career running for statewide office, Coleman has lost to a professional wrestler, beaten a dead guy, and then tied a comedian. He doesn't have much to lose by fighting this to its bitter conclusion. But it's hard to envision how he'll come up with enough ballots to overtake Franken.
1.05.2009
The Good News for Coleman...
by Nate Silver @ 7:29 PM
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76 comments
First!
I don't think Coleman cares about winning, I think he is just attempting to drag this out and hope that any allegation discredits Franken out of the box.
Give it up, Norm - you lost. You didn't lose by much, but second place is second place even in a photo finish. Just ask Milorad Cavic.
Welcome to the U.S. Senate, Al Franken.
Your last paragraph sums Coleman's qualifications up extremely well:
"Let's be frank: Norm Coleman doesn't have much of a future in electoral politics. Defeated Presidential candidates sometimes have nine lives, but defeated Senatorial candidates rarely do, and in his career running for statewide office, Coleman has lost to a professional wrestler, beaten a dead guy, and then tied a comedian.
And it's funny -- an Al Franken sort of line.
Norm knows he lost, he is just trying to get the freeptards to believe he really won. It is working, the freeptards and the complete idiot over at Gateway Pundit believe him, who knows, he might be able to give a video speech from prison to a gun toting idiot group.
Even though I am happy Franken won, I actually do kinda look forward to the inevitable court challenge. It will serve as a stiff reminder for the folks that want to warp reality that it's the law that ultimately decides these types of issues, not a few baseless rants on some blog or editorial page out there, no matter how much they want to wish it so.
I really don't blame the Coleman campaign for dragging this to the bitter end, but now, we're nearly at the bitter end.
Still, give up, Norm. The only way you could've beaten Wellstone was by slandering him, then slandering him even more after he died. The fact that you couldn't beat a comedian is a damn shame.
Brad said...
Norm knows he lost, he is just trying to get the freeptards to believe he really won. It is working, the freeptards and the complete idiot over at Gateway Pundit believe him
And apparently the editorial board at the Wall Street Journal, that onee respected, now a Murdoch rag.
I heard on the radio today that Norm and his wife have each hired attorneys. Something is coming and it doesn't look good for the Colemans.
Nate said: "in his career running for statewide office, Coleman has lost to a professional wrestler, beaten a dead guy, and then tied a comedian."
That was a good laugh :-)
If I only donated $250 to the Franken campaign would it change the probability that my ballot would make it on Coleman's list? BTW: I did win that brawl.
I read somewhere earlier today that Coleman is being talked about for RNC chair. However, that seems unlikely to me because he's a former Democrat and I believe is pro-choice.
In other words, Coleman's not going to be able to cherry pick any additional ballots that get counted. As a result, he's not going to have an advantage.
Isn't it funny that he didn't want to count ANY wrongly rejected absentee ballots and is now posing as an advocate for counting all votes?
That last paragraph was a BIG smile and almost laugh out loud!!!! Thanks
PS @Stat thanks for the link:
http://www.darthbenedict.com/EmperorBenedict.gif
my son loved it!!!
Glad ya liked it :)
Here's another one: Reid's going to try to seat Franken tomorrow. Roll Call
Congratulations to president elect WANKDWARF for being 'First!' (you loser!)
Plus, Coleman is going to Jail!!
Ben said...
I don't think Coleman cares about winning, I think he is just attempting to drag this out and hope that any allegation discredits Franken out of the box.
And the scum, led by Mitch McConnell and John Cornyn, will be egging him on to drag this out as long as possible. That's why SENATOR Franken should be seated immediately, and Harry the Mormon should basically tell the wingnuts to go fuck themse;ves. Go ahead and filibuster, if you dare!
Oh wait, it's Harry "majority leader" Reid we're talking about. Well at least Chuck Schumer's on board.
Jenny--
THAT IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!!!!! FOR COLEMAN!
I say let the Lizard People have it. Can't be much worse than these two clowns.
Intrade does list a .5% chance of a not-Coleman not-Franken candidate winning. Maybe they meant Lizard People, in which case, they still stand a chance
Nate, your statement about Coleman beating a dead guy, while funny, is incorrect. Nate beat Walter Mondale, who is very much alive, for the Senate seat in 2002. Mondale, of course, replaced the late Paul Wellstone on the ballot.
I think Mondale was technically dead
At this next phase of the race, you will have claims raised by Coleman and counter-claims raised by Franken. They are likely to focus on four issues:
1) Rulings by the Canvassing Board on voter intent (likelihood of any changes in the count -- slim or none);
2) Missing ballots in Minneapolis;
3) absentee ballots; and
4) unmatched ballots.
Based on the pleading filed so far, the Franken campaign has done a better job of preparing its case for the contest phase. As such, the most likely result of the contest is to increase the margin not decrease it.
any know if the public or press can petition to see ALL the rejected ballots ?
didnt they do that or something similar in FL 2000?
be interesting to see them
the Hair
that emperorbenedict ROFL thanks made my evening
Coleman needs to save his cash to keep himself out of jail. . . but still needs to look like he's putting up a fight so that his repug buddies will want to donate/pull strings/pardon him. His angle isn't about keeping his senate seat, it's about keeping his virgin seat!
So (responding to the comments)... after the election, when Coleman was ahead by ~200 votes, of course it was imperative that there be a recount and exploration of irregularities, but now that Franken is ahead by ~200 votes, it is imperative that all counting and exploration of irregularities cease immediately and Franken be declared the winner. And any protest that Coleman makes about this is just a desperate attempt to seize power, tie up the results in court, etc.?
Right. You lefties... so predictable. Not that anyone doubted that an election in which the Republican finishes ahead by a marginal, statistically insignificant number of votes would end with a "victorious" Democrat. But don't pretend that there is any principle informing your "opinions" about the recount process other than Democrat=Good, Republican=Bad; thus whatever puts the Dem in power is the good thing.
This Vatican is fully operational!
Useless Dissident-
ahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahah
ahhahhahhhahhhahahahahahhahhaahahhhh
ahahhahahhahahhahahahhahhahahhahhahaha
jenny- i hate to mbring this up but i noticed you forgot a haha;) otherwise your analysis of useless was perfect!
Didn't Coleman once say something about conceding to save money and time?
Depends on whose money he is spending right now. If it's the RNC's, they want him to drag this thing out, and as long as they're paying for it, why not?
Nate said
Let's say that the Coleman campaign is sorting through a spreadsheet of rejected absentee ballots, and identifies one from Stanley Terwilliger of Eden Prarie, Minnesota, who has voted Democratic in every election since 1964, contributed $2,300 to the Franken campaign, and once got in an ice hockey brawl with Norm Coleman's twin brother Lars.
While that is REALLY quite funny, unfortunately, that guy wouldn't live in Eden Prairie. Eden Prairie is full of Coleman's twin brothers and people who wished they lived in Newport Beach. More like Biwabick, MN.
Justice Alan Page's order, linked above, 'splains it all perfectly. And the reason there are about 952 more votes now than are on the voter rolls as having voted election day is because THESE WERE THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS! (Moe-rons.)
I think the WSJ rantatorial was written by John Lott, Jr. The WSJ rantatorial proceeds only through lies. Does the WSJ have an ombudsman?
Useless Dissident: Every ballot, except the 113 missing ones, and the rejected absentee ballots, has been gone over by hand before representatives of both candidates. Other than those ballots (And possible duplicate ones), there's nothing left to recount.
I suppose you could count them all again, by hand, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to do so. Going over them by hand in front of all concerned parties does give a more accurate count than using scanning machines, however. Not enough of a difference to matter in most elections, but when the difference is < 0.1% of ballots cast, a hand recount did make sense.
Only issues now that I'm aware of are the 113 missing ballots, which were counted, rejected absentee ballots (Which have already been carefully reviewed again, in some cases twice), and claims of some votes being counted twice.
Unless you think there were serious flaws in the double checking of rejected absentee ballots, the 113 ballots should not be counted, there is a significant problem with duplicate ballots, or there should be another hand recount, there's no reason for any more legal wrangling.
I'd have nothing against an even-handed checking of duplicate ballots, if it could be done in a reasonable time frame, but the other issues have already been handled as best as possible, in my opinion.
Nate - Actually Coleman didn't tie a comedian. He lost to him by 225 votes.
Nate, I think you have Coleman's plans all wrong. He already knows that he has NO chance if the absentee ballots are counted. His case will therefore be focused on the lack of standards in the process. His goal won't be more counting, but to convince the MNSC that, because no consistent standards exist for identifying and counting wrongly rejected absentee ballots, NONE of them should have been counted. His 650 will be exhibit A in that regard.
Should he prevail on the absentee ballots (highly unlikely), he would have Franken back at a lead he COULD overcome by having the possible double count and 'lost' ballots thrown out. Since he has no actual proof than the law was not followed OR that any actual over-counting occurred in either of these cases, he's not likely to win here either. However, he might just bowl a 300, so why not try?
Shifting gears... In partial answer to 'useless dissident' above, I am wondering if anyone knows the statistics on the error rate on counting as a percentage of voters in urban vs. rural areas. I have a suspicion that larger numbers of voters per worker and per voting machine in urban settings make for substantially higher noise in the final count. That suspicion led me to two opinions about this race, first that a careful recount would produce a significant Franken windfall, and second that conservatives would immediately call it 'voter fraud'. Any thoughts??
STepper said...
Nate - Actually Coleman didn't tie a comedian. He lost to him by 225 votes.
Nate is a statistician - to statisticians, calling something a statistical tie is redundant.
WV: alitia: hot or cold beverage served up by 'The Greatest'
This reminds me of the democratic nomination process, where it was really close up to Super Tuesday. But now since Franken managed to surge ahead is reminiscent of how Obama won 9 states in a row, giving him (both) an insurmountable lead.
Now Coleman's actions remind me of Hilary Clinton after her photo finish in Indiana, still clinging to the 0.01% chance she believed she had of winning. Both these women have no mathematical basis of winning and are dragging this on. Obviously they both had/have a right to, but for most of us we just want the winner ASAP.
@ useless dissident,
Every decision that Coleman can possibly complain of was supported by the Republicans on the Canvassing Board and/or the MN Supreme Court. You should change your username to useless whiner.
Nate, I think you have Coleman's plans all wrong. He already knows that he has NO chance if the absentee ballots are counted. His case will therefore be focused on the lack of standards in the process. His goal won't be more counting, but to convince the MNSC that, because no consistent standards exist for identifying and counting wrongly rejected absentee ballots, NONE of them should have been counted. His 650 will be exhibit A in that regard.
There is NO WAY he can complain about the counting of the 900 or so initially rejected absentee ballots that he agreed should be counted. He agreed that they should have been counted. He doesn't have a leg to stand on if he now tries to argue that those ballots should not have been counted.
useless dissident,
I am all for a careful examination of any deficiencies. The problem is that Coleman's incompetent attorneys have yet to identify those deficiencies. If you read all of their pleadings, they have to date 48 absentee rejected absentee ballots that they think match accepted ballots and one precinct with 11 unmatched originals. For both of these claims, Franken's attorneys have presented more detailed information that rebuts Coleman's claims.
When Coleman is able to put forth specific allegations of specific errors, they can be considered. To date, he has not done so in numbers that would justify a challenge.
The Minnesota Supreme Court has been relatively clear in its three orders in this case.
If the parties agreed that a mistake had been made on election night or in the recount process, that mistake could be corrected by the agreement of the parties. That covers the 952 absentee ballots counted on Saturday -- they all agreed that they should be counted.
If there was an error on which the parties disagreed, that error would require an evidentiary hearing which meant that it was for the election contest.
As to his 650 ballots, Coleman will have to prove that they should have been accepted. Since he has merely said that they should have been more closely examined not that they should have been accepted, not many are going to be counted (and Franken will get more counted).
As to the duplicate ballot issue, Coleman is going to have to prove double counting (and Franken seems ready with places where double counting favored Coleman).
I'd have nothing against an even-handed checking of duplicate ballots, if it could be done in a reasonable time frame, but the other issues have already been handled as best as possible, in my opinion.
I do not see how there can be any possible checking of duplicate ballots. As I understand the issue, there are duplicate ballots that are not matched with their corresponding original ballots like they're supposed to be. This is undisputed. Coleman assumes that the unmatched originals of any such duplicates were not properly labeled as originals and were improperly included within the recount. Franken argues that the originals might have been discarded. Absent some election official testifying what happened to the originals, I do not see how there's any way to determine what actually happened to them.
And, if the courts decide to just assume that any dupe without a corresponding original is a double count, then this should reopen the entire recount process! As I understand it, the campaigns operated under the agreement that dupes would be counted and/or Franken was not allowed in certain counties to challenge unmatched dupes. Thus, if the rules are going to change in the middle of the game, all of the ballots will have to be gone over again so that every dupe without an original can be identified. I cannot imagine the courts would want to do that, especially if there is no evidence that Coleman's assumption is correct.
There is NO WAY he can complain about the counting of the 900 or so initially rejected absentee ballots that he agreed should be counted. He agreed that they should have been counted. He doesn't have a leg to stand on if he now tries to argue that those ballots should not have been counted.
Look, I'm not saying it's a good argument, just that it's the argument that works best for Norm. He can claim that the 900 were properly handled, but that the rejection process for the 650 he wants counted was more strict and represents a different standard. This issue of standards is the main point of his complaint. Different standards mean that some votes count more than others. Hence, it follows that it's better to count none than an uneven distribution that favors one candidate over another. Will it work? Probably not, but if the absentee ballots are counted, he loses unless he gets to pick the list. This is clear to everyone.
I also agree that the above is a bad strategy that only looks good for Coleman compared to conceding or letting more ballots see the light of day. However, it's the only one he has and he may as well use it on the outside chance it gets some traction. Given the election we just went through, anything can happen.
The question on the unmatched originals/duped is going to require checking the precinct logs as to how many people voted.
If the ballots counted exceed the number of people who voted, then some votes were double counted. In that case, there is an argument for excluding unmatched originals and duplicates.
As to the rejected absentee ballots, it is clear that mistakes were made on some absentee ballots. There were probably some ballots accepted on election night that should not have been and there may have been some counted on Saturday that should not have been. Coleman however waived any objection to mistakes on ballots counted on Saturday by agreeing that they should be counted.
What the trial court is going to be concerned about is whether there are still ballots that were improperly excluded. The equal protection claim is frivolous at this point -- two wrongs do not make a right. The trial court is going to be concerned not about duplicating the standards used by the campaigns or some idiotic election judge in Duluth or Anoka but about applying the actual correct law on what is a valid ballot to the rejected ballots.
@RT Maitreya- your post make sense to me for the most part- but please define/explain "virgin seat"- do you mean he is prolonging this contest as some "see mom I am a very good boy?" offering to the Republican Leadership?
Alternatively it seemed that you could be making some strangely tangential reference to Statler's link to "The Hair".
BTW another good one SNW- unfortunately my son is only 7 so his appreciation for the 70's is limited to Star Wars and All in the Family. He really gets All in the Family.
Comedy is very powerful.
GO AL!!!
Hey Jenny!
Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
Yours, Walter.
Does anybody else find it scary how much Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid resemble each other. Granted I would never think they were siblings shown side by side. But it can be hard to tell who is who in the news clips.
Walter I am so glad you are alive and well. Both you and President Carter continue to serve the US and Global public; thank you.I heard once that Senator Wellstone death was SO close to the election that his name appeared on some of the ballots in the 2002 MN Senate race; is that true?
Nate, you say that "What Coleman wants the Court to do, in other words, is to order that the counties re-re-examine their absentee ballots."
I do not think that is correct. His pleading to the MN S. Ct. was to have all questioned absentee ballots counted by the Canvassing Board in a central location. He was arguing for consistency by having the same body determine the legitimacy and legality of all questioned absentee ballots.
Why so serious?
Wow. Comments on the Free Republic are worse than I thought. Those guys are deeply un-american. Im concerned...
I know you meant it as a quasi-joke, but to say that Coleman beat a "dead guy" in 2002 is a little silly. He beat Walter Mondale, a former Presidential nominee, who had the entire Democratic establishment lobbying for me (which probably hurt him, but that's another story). He also "tied a comedian" in a brutal year for Republicans in a blue state. For a Republican to "tie" in MN in 2008 is quite an accomplishment even against a weak candidate like Franken.
Thank you very much, mhz. I cannot confirm that this is true. Minnesota state election law prohibits votes for candidates who have died from being included in the election tally. So it happened that all the people who had mailed in an absentee ballot with Paul Wellstone's name on it had their ballots not counted. So I said to Coleman: "Where's the thief?"
And yes, having all the big guns lobbying for you isn't necessarily helpful.
The question on the unmatched originals/duped is going to require checking the precinct logs as to how many people voted.
If the ballots counted exceed the number of people who voted, then some votes were double counted. In that case, there is an argument for excluding unmatched originals and duplicates.
Are there alternative explanations for the number of ballots counted exceed the number of voters according to the precinct logs besides double counted originals and dupes? For example, couldn't election officials make a mistake and allow someone to vote without requiring him or her to sign in? If the number of ballots exceed the number of voters according to the voter log, we know something went wrong with the procedure, but I don't think it tells us what that something was, especially if the number of extra ballots does not match precisely the number of unmatched dupes.
He also "tied a comedian" in a brutal year for Republicans in a blue state. For a Republican to "tie" in MN in 2008 is quite an accomplishment even against a weak candidate like Franken.
Coleman didn't do any better than Smith in Oregon and much, much worse than Susan Collins in Maine. And, Coleman likely benefited from having a third party candidate on the ballot. To the extent that you think Franken was a particularly weak candidate (I don't), you have to downgrade his performance even more. I certainly wouldn't call his performance anything special.
Are you really Senator/VP Walter Mondale of MN or one of his staff members? How very cool!
Mr. Mondale (if that is really you) please forgive me for addressing you as Walter. You and your continued service deserve far more respect than that.
I am very new to this form of communication, and I have a very hard time sorting it out sometimes.
All the best,
Mary
Nate: The MN court order contains NO "good news" for Coleman. There is no reason that the court WOULD "rule on the merits" of Coleman's case, when the proper forum for that would be via an election contest.
There has to be a finding of fact. The appellate courts rely on the record below, and can't make factual findings of their own. Their job is to determine the correct legal standard for deciding the facts, not decide the facts themselves.
But, Coleman's argument that some ballots were counted twice, and that certain absentee ballots identified by him were wrongly rejected, can only be determined factually. That means an election challenge under the law.
Thus, the current decision says NOTHING about how the court views Coleman's chances on the ultimate merits of the case.
Instead, he's going to have to go through the steps of officially bringing the election challenge, having it ruled on and then appealed to the S.Ct.
Once he loses there, which I think he will, then he can try to appeal to the Federal Courts and ultimately to the S.Ct. which would be well advised this time to stay the HELL OUT. They should have abstained in Bush v. Gore. This time they get another chance to do the right thing.
Kennyb said...
[Coleman] was arguing for consistency by having the same body determine the legitimacy and legality of all questioned absentee ballots.
That argument would be the same as asking that all trials of a certain type statewide be argued before the same judge. All murder trials in the state go to Judge A, all embezzlement trials in the state go to Judge B, all larceny cases go to Judge C, etc. You would get consistency by doing that.
The election law is uniform state-wide. It is presumed that the law will be enforced in a uniform manner, but there is recognition that the enforcement will be done by humans, and thus there will be some, but not much, variance in the enforcement.
Was there some variance in the manner in which absentee ballots were determined? Probably yes.
Did all [political] parties have the opportunity to see the review of the absentee ballots? Most definitely yes.
Did both Coleman and Franken have the opportunity to have representatives at the re-review of the absentee ballots? Yes, and both candidates DID have representatives at the re-review of all absentee ballots, with the opportunity to raise questions and objections about the handling of each individual ballot.
Was there enough variance of enforcement to bring into question the result? That is what Coleman needs to establish if he is to win the post-recount contest. Can he and will he able to prove it? That is one of the things that the post-recount contest will be trying to answer.
Frankly, I seriously doubt it.
Norman "litigious" coleman has filed suit to contest the legitimacy of this election certification.
WV: Siggench: the stench caused by the signature on coleman's election contest
Coleman cannot be, and in my view is in fact not, serious about his lawsuit against the Canvassing Board [and possibly also against the Franken campaign, if he adds in some of the bogus fraud allegations the Coleman campaign made to excite the Republican base].
What Coleman IS serious about is raising the funds necessary for a long, expensive battle to keep his skinny authoritarian butt out of the pokey.
There is a room under campaign financing laws for a politician to convert support contributions into legal defense funds.
Looking at it purely objectively, this appears to be a pretty good time to go asking for funds from the full gamut of the nationwide brethren and cistern of the eternal extreme right fringe:
all the election stuff is over; nice, reliable daily distraction bone for those maniacs to gnaw on while the few rational members of the Republican ranks in Congress join Obama and Dems in an effort to kick start a dead economy [If you don't believe me, check out Drudge, Hot Air, Ace of Spades HQ, Instapundit, or any of the voluntary occupants of the braindeadosphere.
Wanna add a couple of points.
First; I'm not from Minnesota, but I have to say that Franken has turned out to be both a terrificly resilient politician and, I predict he will be, a fantastic senator. Don't forget how much Nahmie cheated, and how hard Nahmie worked to erase all the strings tying him to the Bush administration, and how dirty Nahmie played this contest, and how much of a help it must have been for him to have a tube of polenti in the governor's mansion - not to mention his greater funding [at least at the early stages, while Franken was still having to spend so much time and resources fighting for the DFL nomination], or the even bigger factor of the losing candidate in the DFL contest deciding to run as a third candidate, which had to be a big net hurt on Franken's vote totals.
Second: I haven't posted here before, but like many, I come here daily. Nate: Compared to what you do on baseball, you're not half bad. I still think Bill James is Eric Clapton in that field, or at least God. But here, on this stuff, you, sir, are a national treasure.
Actually, I am really surprised that on one has brought up that because of the legal ramblings, Coleman has essentially stopped any voting by Franken. Even though the Democrats do not have a filibustering majority, one less Democrat vote is one less Democrat vote. Interesting huh.
Useless Dissident:
The ballots have been counted and recounted (Gawd but how many times did BillO say that in 2000), and Franken is the winner of that recount. It is time to move on.
This is only a naked attempt by America-hating conservatives to steal an election that they lost. I'd like to see a bunch of protesters outside Nor Loserman's rent-free flat.
Coleman's head looks like a slice of pizza with teeth.
I'm not quite sure what that means in an election challenge but in an absolute tie it might as well be the tie-breaker against him.
That's what we're down to, here.
I bet Al Franken doesn't mind Coleman stringing out the recount process a couple of weeks with legal challenges just so Al doesn't have to shake hands with that POS War Criminal Cheney during the Senate induction ceremony.
I'm confused after reading through Norm's election contest:
1) In Exhibit C Coleman claims duplicate votes occurred in 19 precincts. 10 of those precincts show a net gain for Franken of 2 votes or less from the initial count on 11/4. In 2 of those precincts (Minneapolis W13 - P1 and W10 - P10) Franken's total actually went down by 1 in the recount. In order to prove that duplicate ballots were added into the recount wouldn't you have to show an increase in votes from 11/4?
2) In Exhibit E Coleman lists 2 precincts as having more votes cast than voters (Ramsey Maplewood -6 and St Paul W-3 P-9). If duplicate votes were counted in 19 precincts (as stated in Coleman Exhibit C), then shouldn't he have listed at least 19 precincts where there were more votes than voters? Also, didn't his campaign talk to those crackerjack reporters at the WSJ who found 25 precincts with more votes than voters? Why aren't 25 precints listed? The WSJ is a highly respected news organization.
3) As many of the right-wingers have pointed out, ACORN stole this election. I see no mention of ACORN in Coleman's suit. Perhaps that evidence will be presented later.
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