1.05.2009

Did the Wall Street Journal Fire their Fact-Checkers?

The Wall Street Journal is bar none one of the best newspapers in the country -- except when its Editorial Board is having a bad day. And today the Board is having a very bad day, having published an editorial that declares Al Franken's provisional win in Minnesota, which the state just certified moments ago, to be illegitimate, while accusing Minnesota's Canvassing Board of being inconsistent and biased in favor of Franken.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with taking such a position. The Journal's editorial, however, has several basic facts wrong, makes several other assertions based on flimsy or nonexistent evidence, and generally has little understanding of the process that has taken place to date.

Let's go through the editorial paragraph by paragraph.

Strange things keep happening in Minnesota, where the disputed recount in the Senate race between Norm Coleman and Al Franken may be nearing a dubious outcome. Thanks to the machinations of Democratic Secretary of State Mark Ritchie and a meek state Canvassing Board, Mr. Franken may emerge as an illegitimate victory
"Machinations": there's a ten-dollar word. Ritchie may be a Democrat, but he was also democratically elected -- lower case 'D' -- by the people of Minnesota. And as for the Canvassing Board, it arguably leans to the right, consisting of two members appointed by Tim Pawlenty, one appointed by Jesse Ventura, one elected member, and Ritchie.
Mr. Franken started the recount 215 votes behind Senator Coleman, but he now claims a 225-vote lead and suddenly the man who was insisting on "counting every vote" wants to shut the process down. He's getting help from Mr. Ritchie and his four fellow Canvassing Board members, who have delivered inconsistent rulings and are ignoring glaring problems with the tallies.
Actually, Coleman is having far more trouble with the Minnesota Supreme Court, which generally has a conservative reputation, than he is with the Canvassing Board. They're the ones who rejected his petition on duplicate ballots, and they're the ones who rejected his notion of wanting to tack on additional ballots to the absentee ballot counting.
Under Minnesota law, election officials are required to make a duplicate ballot if the original is damaged during Election Night counting. Officials are supposed to mark these as "duplicate" and segregate the original ballots. But it appears some officials may have failed to mark ballots as duplicates, which are now being counted in addition to the originals. This helps explain why more than 25 precincts now have more ballots than voters who signed in to vote. By some estimates this double counting has yielded Mr. Franken an additional 80 to 100 votes.
There are 25 precincts with more ballots than voters? I'm not sure this is actually true. There were certain precincts with more votes counted during the recount than there were on Election Night -- which is not surprising, considering that the whole purpose of a hand recount is to find votes that the machine scanners missed the first time around. I have not seen any evidence, on the other hand, that there are precincts with more votes than voters as recorded on sign-in sheets. And the Coleman campaign evidently hasn't either, or it presumably would have presented it to the Court, which rejected its petition for lack of evidence.

Also, note the weasel-wordy phrase "by some estimates", which translates as "by the Coleman campaign's estimate". There is no intrinsic reason why Franken ballots are more likely to be duplicated than Coleman ballots, especially when one significant source of duplicate ballots is military absentees, a group that presumably favors the Republicans. Coleman, indeed, only became interested in the issue of duplicates once he fell behind in the recount and needed some way to extend his clock. Before then, his lead attorney had sent an e-mail to Franken which said that challenges on the issue of duplicate ballots were "groundless and frivolous".
This disenfranchises Minnesotans whose vote counted only once. And one Canvassing Board member, State Supreme Court Justice G. Barry Anderson, has acknowledged that "very likely there was a double counting." Yet the board insists that it lacks the authority to question local officials and it is merely adding the inflated numbers to the totals.
The Canvassing Board indeed determined that it lacked the jurisidiction to handle duplicate ballots, telling Coleman that he had to go to court. Which he did. And the court threw the case out because Coleman didn't have any evidence.
In other cases, the board has been flagrantly inconsistent. Last month, Mr. Franken's campaign charged that one Hennepin County (Minneapolis) precinct had "lost" 133 votes, since the hand recount showed fewer ballots than machine votes recorded on Election Night. Though there is no proof to this missing vote charge -- officials may have accidentally run the ballots through the machine twice on Election Night -- the Canvassing Board chose to go with the Election Night total, rather than the actual number of ballots in the recount. That decision gave Mr. Franken a gain of 46 votes.
Actually, there is some proof: the number of votes identified during the recount fell 134 short of the number of voters who signed in on Election Night in this precinct.
Meanwhile, a Ramsey County precinct ended up with 177 more ballots than there were recorded votes on Election Night. In that case, the board decided to go with the extra ballots, rather than the Election Night total, even though the county is now showing more ballots than voters in the precinct. This gave Mr. Franken a net gain of 37 votes, which means he's benefited both ways from the board's inconsistency.
The decisions are not inconsistent if the Canvassing Board's objective is wanting to count every vote.

And here again the Journal is going on about the county "showing more ballots than voters in the precinct". If there is evidence of this, it would be news not just to me but also to the Coleman campaign.
And then there are the absentee ballots. The Franken campaign initially howled that some absentee votes had been erroneously rejected by local officials. Counties were supposed to review their absentees and create a list of those they believed were mistakenly rejected. Many Franken-leaning counties did so, submitting 1,350 ballots to include in the results. But many Coleman-leaning counties have yet to complete a re-examination. Despite this lack of uniformity, and though the state Supreme Court has yet to rule on a Coleman request to standardize this absentee review, Mr. Ritchie's office nonetheless plowed through the incomplete pile of 1,350 absentees this weekend, padding Mr. Franken's edge by a further 176 votes.
This is just blatantly false. All counties, red and blue alike, were instructed by the Supreme Court to identify any wrongly-rejected absentee ballots, and all of them did. In certain counties, Coleman claims to have identified additional wrongly-rejected absentee ballots above and beyond the ones that county officials identified -- but these were counties that nevertheless complied with the court's order and turned in their lists of ballots to the state.
Both campaigns have also suggested that Mr. Ritchie's office made mistakes in tabulating votes that had been challenged by either of the campaigns. And the Canvassing Board appears to have applied inconsistent standards in how it decided some of these challenged votes -- in ways that, again on net, have favored Mr. Franken.
I watched the video feed of the challenge adjudication process and did think there were some number of inconsistencies, particularly in the ways that ballots with 'X's on them were handled. But, I was looking at .pdfs of the ballots, whereas the Canvassing Board got to look at full-color, three-dimensional copies, which may make some difference in borderline cases. More to the point, however: (1) both candidates had their lawyers in the room when this adjudication was taking place, and had every right to press the Board on perceived inconsistencies, and (2) there is no evidence whatsoever that these inconsistencies hurt any one candidate particularly more than the other.
The question is how the board can certify a fair and accurate election result given these multiple recount problems. Yet that is precisely what the five members seem prepared to do when they meet today. Some members seem to have concluded that because one of the candidates will challenge the result in any event, why not get on with it and leave it to the courts? Mr. Coleman will certainly have grounds to contest the result in court, but he'll be at a disadvantage given that courts are understandably reluctant to overrule a certified outcome.
He'll be at a disadvantage because fewer people voted for him.
Meanwhile, Minnesota's other Senator, Amy Klobuchar, is already saying her fellow Democrats should seat Mr. Franken when the 111th Congress begins this week if the Canvassing Board certifies him as the winner. This contradicts Minnesota law, which says the state cannot award a certificate of election if one party contests the results. Ms. Klobuchar is trying to create the public perception of a fait accompli, all the better to make Mr. Coleman look like a sore loser and build pressure on him to drop his legal challenge despite the funny recount business.
But it doesn't contradict Congressional precedent, as the Congress generally has seated provisional winners while challenges were taking place, including Republican Representative Vern Buchanan in 2007 and Democratic Senator Mary Landrieu in 1997.
Minnesotans like to think that their state isn't like New Jersey or Louisiana, and typically it isn't. But we can't recall a similar recount involving optical scanning machines that has changed so many votes, and in which nearly every crucial decision worked to the advantage of the same candidate. The Coleman campaign clearly misjudged the politics here, and the apparent willingness of a partisan like Mr. Ritchie to help his preferred candidate, Mr. Franken. If the Canvassing Board certifies Mr. Franken as the winner based on the current count, it will be anointing a tainted and undeserving Senator.
New Jerseyites! Louisianans! Cancel your subscriptions! And the rest of you might as well too.

124 comments

Linden said...

The JORUNAL has no fact-checkers, and 538 needs a copyeditor.

big steve22 said...

Were all the typos on purpose?

chrishickman said...

Not to mention it is "bar none one of the newspapers in the country" and "expect" instead of "except". Ugh, what happened here?

Sean said...

Yeah I read that this morning. It was like they repeated every Coleman talking point without actually looking at the facts of the case. Weird.

thatmarvelousape said...

This is standard operating procedure for a Murdoch rag. All the lies that the GOP sees fit to print.

NU Star said...

I agree that the WSJ is one of the newspapers in the country.

David said...

Yes, Nate...they are indeed a newspaper in the country...

Mark said...

Nate, if you ever need a copy editor, just let me know. I'm pretty good at it.

Aside from the typos, though, outstanding dissection of a weasel-worded, factually reckless Murdoch-rag editorial.

Nate Silver said...

Ugh. I've fixed the typos. Maybe the Jorunal can new get about fixing its facts.

Andrew said...

out of all the websites in the world, this is definitely one of them.

phil said...

While the quality of WSJ's reporting is generally praised, its editorial pages deserve and receive routine mockery. You shouldn't conflate the two.

trayf said...

I assume there are many examples to refute the "When has a recount changed so many votes?" canard. The one I can think of is Washington-Gov, way back in 2004. I love that the continued ineptitude of Coleman's arguments is held up as evidence of fraud. It is impressive that he was shut out thus far in rulings, but hardly evidence of a plot against him.

randiego said...

Maybe the Jorunal can new get about fixing its facts.
It's journal and it's "now get".

phil said...

Ugh. I've fixed the typos.

Pssst. Up there. You've got something on your title.

Shaun said...

I don't know where they got 25 precincts from, but I did figure out a way that they could conceivably think that there were more votes counted than voters:

I was just commenting on a newspaper blog about this WSJ article that somebody else was using as an argument for shenanigans in the recount.

I downloaded the official vote tally from http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/SenateRecount.asp to verify by using this method:

cat US_Senator.csv | awk 'BEGIN {FS=","} ; {print $3,$7,$8,$9,$13}' > US_Senator_minnesota_input.txt

Edit the input text file and delete the first line (the field descriptors).

cat US_Senator_minnesota_input.txt | awk '{print $1,$2+$3+$4,$5}' > US_Senator_minnesota_output.txt

Write a little perl script like this:

my $infile = shift;
open INFILE, "<$infile" or die "Unable to open input file";
my $ndiff=0;
while (<INFILE>)
{
  my @line = split;
  if ($line[1] > $line[2])
  {
    print $_;
    $ndiff += $line[1]-$line[2];
  }
}
close INFILE;
print "total extra votes: $ndiff\n";

The output showed the number of extra votes per district (a total of 171 districts) and got a total of 955 additional votes over the total from the initial election night count of votes tallied (which is the same number of absentee ballots that had been wrongfully rejected).

JamesCraven said...

That's why it's the MURDOCH STREET JOURNAL not the WALL STREET JOURNAL

jpm said...

"They're the ones who rejected his petition on duplicate ballots, and they're the ones who rejected his notion of wanting to tack on additional ballots to the absentee ballot counting."

They didn't really reject these things. They just said that the proper way to deal with this is via via an election contest, in a court of law, where evidence can be presented.

PorridgeGun said...

M U R D O C H



BTW, this WSJ editorial is what the FReeptards are holding up as "proof" that Al Franken and Mark Ritchie have stolen this election. They're also convinced the appointment of Leon Panetta as CIA Director is "proof" that Obama has problems with his "fake birth certificate," I shit you not.

green libertarian said...

Ummm, I've been reading the WSJ for 30 years, and their reporting is often very good and in depth.

Their unsigned editorials are pure propaganda, not on a bad day, EVERY DAY!

Their conservative Op-Eds are sometimes quite good, almost half the time. Their liberal Op-Eds are mostly very very good. The LTEs from all sides are very interesting and articulate.

I'm not quite sure I understand Shaun's number crunching there...

There weren't anymore than a handful of Challenged Ballots that MIGHT have been decided incorrectly. Less than a dozen.

I would like to see the data Coleman supposedly has about this discrepancy between voters accounted for after the recount, and votes cast.

C said...

The op-ed is nothing more than a conclusion in search of facts to support it.

jdk said...

The first blush test for accusations of stolen election, should be application of Benford's Law.

Kit Stolz said...

The WSJ is one of the best papers in the country, but its editorial writers are ready and willing to distort facts to make an argument, and were so long before Murdoch. At times they even contradict their own excellent reporters. He's an example I found on climate:

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/8/30/132550/460

William said...

M U R D O C H



BTW, this WSJ editorial is what the FReeptards are holding up as "proof" that Al Franken and Mark Ritchie have stolen this election. They're also convinced the appointment of Leon Panetta as CIA Director is "proof" that Obama has problems with his "fake birth certificate," I shit you not.

Mule Rider: Fell better now? I assure you I AM AN AMERICAN!

moondancer said...

The accolades you gave WSJ would be for the pre-Murdoch paper. The tainted version is just another GOP/wingnut outlet now.
And their assertions about Franken and the election aside, Al will be the most honest member of the senate for his entire tenure. Mark my words. It may be why they are whining already...

e3323 said...

I think Al Franken is going to make a great senator.

Jason Gradin said...

WSJ was recently bought owned my Murdoch and his goons. It used to be a good paper. Now it's the periodical equivalent of Fox News.

C said...

I'm especially disgusted at the insinuation that the Canvassing Board and the Supreme Court's refusal to act outside their jurisdiction is somehow evidence of Coleman getting an unfair shake. Both bodies correctly determined the proper venue for Coleman's claims was in an election contest, as provided by Minnesota Law. And those decisions were made with unanimous support of Minnesota's most esteemed jurists.

Where does The WSJ get off?

Kennyb said...

Oops.

The Obama team (led by Panetta) seems to have forgotten to give Feinstein a heads-up on the CIA pick, thus engendering the (inevitable?) push-back:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/01/05/1732447.aspx

Obama would do well to remember that more than one piece of legislation has been killed by past Presidents not giving powerful Senators, especially those of the same party, the respect they demand, but may not deserve.

VegnaBlitz said...

Excellent article.

Shaun said...

In the official voter tally, the column descriptions in the raw text file are:

county_id,county_name,precinct_id,precinct_name,BallotCount NORM COLEMAN,BallotCount AL FRANKEN,BallotRecount NORM COLEMAN,BallotRecount AL FRANKEN,BallotRecountOther,COLEMAN and other Ballots Challenged by FRANKEN, FRANKEN and other Ballots Challenged by COLEMAN, MCD_name,TotalVotersInPrecinct

So what I did was to first print out only the precinct ID, BallotRecount NORM COLEMAN, BallotRecount AL FRANKEN, BallotRecountOther, and TotalVotersInPrecinct fields. I then added the number of ballots decided in Coleman's favor to the number of ballots decided in Franken's favor to the number of other ballots (ballots that presumably were cast but were not counted towards either of them) and then compared this number to the number of voters. Theoretically they should match (and if you add up the initial count numbers for each of these fields they do match). Instead there was 955 more ballots cast state-wide than there were voters state-wide but I believe that is because they did not change the number of voters when they included the wrongfully excluded absentee ballots (since that number matches the number of wrongfully excluded absentee ballots included in the recount).

Vinny said...

So Mule Rider, how do you feel about SENATOR Al Franken? ;)

jake-tucker said...

Mule Rider, stop being a jingoistic asshole, it is close-minded people like you that make everyone else hate Americans.
However, despite your obnoxious an unnecessarily confrontational tone I won't tell you to stop posting on this blog, because one of the better things about this country that you so clearly identify with is that we accept people even if we don't agree with them.
Now grow up.

Lisa Pease said...

Please send a copy of this post to FAIR - Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting. Fair - at - fair - dot - org.

Brad said...

Nate-

Great post, perfect if you had a copy editor.

The WSJ is becoming the Fix News of the newspaper world, this will not last and they will lose readership, quickly. The WSJ cachet comes from their ability to comment from a strong center-right unbiased position on economic issues. They are quickly losing this, way to go Rupert!

Hey Rupert, looked at the stock price lately? How is that handover to your son going?

GeorgeQPublic said...

Nate,

Wall Street Journal is nothing more than a dying 'trade rag' these days...and became irrelevant to any actual REAL news and worthwhile reporting even before Rupert Murdoch came along to hasten its demise with his right-wingnut bias.

Even on Wall Street they call it the 'Urinal'...especially these days.

Brad said...

Porridge Gun, you area great poster. You must be to get under the ultimate troll's skin.

Neil said...

I think your first sentence is using the word "is" when "was" is more appropriate.

Since joining the Murdoch empire, the WSJ has been having a lot of bad days.

Benjamin said...

My Minnesotan friends tell me ALL THE TIME how they like to think they aren't New Jersey or Louisiana. Everything in this column MUST be true!

green libertarian said...

Thank you, Shaun. That makes more sense to me, now that you mentioned this field: TotalVotersInPrecinct as a data point.

The RebelSphere said...

From the Minneapolis Star Tribune November 6th, 2008 edition (http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/33900844.html?elr=KArksUUUU):

Coleman urged Franken to waive his right to a recount, saying that the prospect of changing the result was remote and that a recount would be costly to taxpayers (about $86,000).

"I just think the need for the healing process is so important. ... hopefully, you don't have TV ads during an election recount," Coleman said.


As a Minnesotan, I'm not sold on Franken (best case scenario: he continues on what Wellstone left behind; worst case scenario: he makes the nation forget we elected Jesse Ventura), but I'll gladly give him a try so we can avoid another six years of being represented by Coleman. It's funny how two months and a 440-vote swing will change one's opinion on the healing process and accepting the intent of the (slight) majority of the voters, eh?

jake-tucker said...

Haha Rebel,
I'm a junior at Carleton and voted here instead of in Massachusetts where I'm from and I know what you mean. I have no idea what'll happen with Franken, could be another great social-minded liberal or could be another nutjob. We'll see. Still, I was sick as hell of Norm and his crazy wife representing the state.

Shaun said...

I don't blame you for not being sold on Franken RebelSphere. I wouldn't be either until he is at capital hill casting votes and (eventually) helping write legislation. I say eventually because freshman senators usually have very little say in the wording of bills that get passed.

At least he's intelligent and as far as I can tell an honorable person. Just because they guy tells good jokes doesn't make him unable to think and act seriously as well.

jake-tucker said...

Agreed, and the fact that he cites Paul Wellstone as his reason for entering politics can only make liberals feel more comfortable.

mhz said...

I suspect there is often a functional/mechanistic relationship between the ability to write (and to a lesser degree deliver) a good joke and intelligence. Fortunately Franken can do both- I expect he will serve MN and the US very well.

Benjamin said...

Nate mentioned on Gawker:
http://gawker.com/5123993/al-franken-only-months-of-legal-challenges-away-from-proving-nate-silver-right

doretta said...

I'm (my thoughts and opinions) considered "worthless" or "meaningless" in other countries.

Thus proving that Americans are not so much different from people from other countries after all.

John Emerson said...

Coleman will stink up the place. (Registration required).

PorridgeGun said...

LOL@Mule Humper

Paris Sailin said...

Is this the Wahhhhhhhhl Street Journal?

David L said...

Most people here have more time for what Porridge has to say that someone who has nothing better to do than sit in his parents' house all day and troll

mediapost said...

Thanks Nate for another quick rebuttal to a another piece of journalistic garbarge. But, to be fair, don't forget that this is an 'Opinion' piece, there is no need for fact checking when one is just stating one's 'Opinion'. I'm surprised he forgot to include the other often mentioned 'Opinion' about the 32 ballots that were found in the trunk of an election official's car.

And another thing, how about the fact that tiny Becker county 'discovered' 61 votes during the recount, (almost 1/2 of 1 percent of their TOTAL vote recorded on election night!!!). What are the odds??!! How statistically improbable!! and of course, those votes went heavily for Franken ... uh... What's that? ... They actually went to Coleman? Oh, ... never mind.

Mark said...

Speaking as an American, Mule Rider, I'm much more interested in what an intelligent foreigner like PorridgeGun has to say than in the mindless trolling of an American idiot like you.

Myron said...

Hi

Douglas said...

Mule Rider: what's up man, why so hateful today?

Myron said...

Good work Nate. You are like the superhero of fact-based reporting. When the light is shined on the darkest crevices, the ugliest critters are exposed for what they truly are. Poor repubs......facts, what a horrible inconvenience.

Pragmatus said...

I nominate Mule Rider for head of the RNC. He seems to be on their exact wavelength.

Nate I have to take issue with your suggestion that the WSJ is one of the finest papers in the country. It might have been at one time, but whenever Rupert Murdoch gets his hands on any publication it eventually devolves into a creature of his narrow thinking. This editorial is a first class example. If a newspaper resorts to spin, half-truths and no-truths rather than facts to make its points, it has departed the realm of serious journalism.

By the way, your first sentence contains what I like to call a "weirdism"--you cannot say "the WSJ is bar none one of the best newspapers..." "Bar none" sets up the expectation that you will label the WSJ "the best", not "one of the best".

--Miss Krebopple

R Linder said...

Hi jake-tucker,

My daughter is a freshman at Carleton and she specifically decided to vote in MN rather than TX precisely because she knew that the race would be close there and because our whole family has read the three of Al's books (Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot, Lies and the Lying etc., The Truth with Jokes).

In fact, for all of you who are concerned that Al might be more of a comedian than a politician (in a good way), I would recommend these three books as a good place to start. Yes, they are satirical and have some sharp humor that you may or may not like. But what you'll see if you take the time to read them is that Al is serious about progressive politics and is very well informed. You can see a clear progression in the depth of the analysis in the books, particularly the last one (The Truth with Jokes, 2006) where I believe Al deliberately toned down the jokes and delved more deeply into the evidence for his points because he was considering a race for the Senate.

I think his published work indicated strongly that he will be a well-informed voice for the left.

Henry said...

R Linder. Interesting. I live in Tennessee and my daughter is a Senior at Macalester. She decided to vote in MN because TN was out of play for Senate and President. Sort of proud to know we constitute two of the 225 votes that really ending mattering.

Myron said...

Hmmm, I don't remember seeing a "citizen requirement" to post on this site.

In addition, I would rather have the comments of an informed "foreigner" than a typical Murican like "Joe the Non-Plumber".

Americans have been shown to be substantially more ignorant than their counterparts throughout the world, most especially when compared with other First World nations. I don't remember any other major world leaders as wholly incompetent as Bush being elected not once but twice. 46% just two months ago were willing to have a complete dimwit as second in command........yeah, chances are, the "furrinners" probably have something more worthwhile to say.

GayIthacan said...

Nate:

"I've fixed the typos. Maybe the Jorunal can new get about fixing its facts."

Is this irony??

Great article!!

R Linder said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Dr. Matt said...

The joke's on you, Male Rider. You're not American. You are a nobody here. You do not count. You are meaningless.

And what's best, you support a dying fading party. Congrats.

R Linder said...

@Henry.

Exactly what I told my daughter! It's wonderful that the first time in her life that she voted her vote was so pivotal.

Voting always matters, but rarely is it so clear how one's effort helps.

Dr. Matt said...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Male Rider:
Much of the world has an abysmal record towards human rights and their standard of living is marginal,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Prove it, you lying anti-American scumbag.

We'll wait....

Henry said...

please don't feed Mule Rider

Dr. Matt said...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Male Rider:
Tell me again how Americans are so incompetent and ignorant and the rest of the world has it all together.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reich-wing GOPigs, like yourself, are incompetent and ignorant. You are the case in point.

Dr. Matt said...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Male rider
I've never voted for a Republican or supported the party in my entire life.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nice job, liar. But, if I supported the reich-wing GOPigs, like yourself, I wouldn't admit to it either, liar.

Elise said...

Jason is busy repeating the lies from the WSJ as I type, and all his mouth breathing followers are going along with it. Don't they watch the news or read the paper?

holy crapo said...

PSA:
I see Porridgegoon and his fellow dweebtards have fallen for the fake mule rider again.

Redshift said...

MR: There's nothing jingoistic about calling out a foreigner...

Yes, there is.

Calling out someone for being hateful and spiteful is pretty rich coming from an asshole like you, who rarely posts anything on this site but content-free insults. (Ooh, he said mean things about conservatives!) Just because you declare that someone's opinion is worthless doesn't mean it is. And further, the fact that you believe your opinions about any other country are worthless doesn't make you correct, just consistent.

You don't want to comment about the politics of any other country, fine, but that's your choice, not an inherent truth of the universe. Citizenship is only a requirement to vote, not to have an opinion.

Redshift said...

What Phil said -- the WSJ news pages feature some fine reporting (though it remains to be seen if that will continue in the Murdoch era.) The ludicrousness of their editorials cannot be blamed on Murdoch, though; it goes way back.

shg15 said...

WSJ is one of the best newspapers; the editorial pages, one of the most neoconservative in the land (indeed, one of the progenitors of the wretched movement), are an embarrassment and have been for years.

My sense is that there are no fact checkers because these are the "opinion" (i.e., not news) pages.

Still, this episode reminds me of the famous quote from Sen. Moynihan: "you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts."

Dave said...

Mule Rider, please. Your online tantrums were amusing during the election, and now they are getting downright tedious. As an American, I feel obligated to mention that in no way does Mule Rider represent what this country really is, and is probably not even old enough to vote.

Anyways, good for Franken on the win.

STepper said...

Henry and R Linder. What a coincidence! My duaghter is 11 but if she had been 18 she would have been going to some college in Minnesota and I would have urged her to vote there rather than in California where our votes don't count for much these days.

I posted a blog to the WSJ site this morning to tell them they were all whiners who didn't know shit from shinola, but I can't tell if the WSJ posted it.

As for Mule Rider - just ignore him. He's a 16 year old dimwit operating out of mommy and daddy's basement whose juvenile antics last October forced Nate to install word verification.

Michael (mbw) said...

Great post Nate, but you left out one thing. On those 133 Dinkytown votes, not only did the machine count match the number of signed-in voters, but the lower-count batch was in envelopes marked 2/5, 3/5,4/5,5/5. Were some ballots missing? Duh. This is not a judgment call.

Were they stolen by the same precinct workers who had spent the day turning awy student voters, creating a big ruckus? we don't know yet.

morzer said...

Mule Rider, presumably as a non-Minnesotan you believe that your own opinion is irrelevant? If so, you've finally managed to join the consensus of civilized and literate people. Now, give me the Big Mac and fries I ordered.

justaguy8282 said...

Let me just join the chorus and agree wholeheartedly that the intelligent contributions of levelheaded foreigners such as PorridgeGun are much more valuable and meaningful than vacuous verbiage from an imperious American like Mule Rider.

Statler N Waldorf said...

It's become a symptom of how far we are from the days of civil political discourse that existed pre-Atwater. Gracious concessions are becoming far less the trend as sore loser-ism is now on fashion. Not that I'm against voicing opposition to a cause you disagree with, I just think there are better ways of going about it.

The WSJ has always cheered for the Right, and now that Murdoch owns it, it does so with the same degree of class that the New York Post and Faux News do-which is to say, none at all. While it attempted to at least adopt the patina of even-handed professionalism prior to the NewsCorp acquisition of it, we now wonder why it doesn't just go all the way and start featuring pictures of half-naked women on the front page like the NYP.

Seriously, we all saw this coming. Murdoch hasn't managed to produce anything by cheap trash, and everything he touches turns to styrofoam. Nate gives this rag far too much credit. I am grateful for the articles by Garry Kasparov featured in the WSJ, but that's really the only value I see left in it. Maybe if it were printed on softer paper I could use it to wipe my ass, and thus derive a greater appreciation for its content.

Dave said...

I think the point that the right is missing here is what the law has to say about this. Ultimately, a MN Senator is Minnesota's right to seat, and the issue should be settled before a MN Court (it will probably go to our Supreme Court when ol' Normy goes through with his election contesting threat). Now, if say the MN Supreme Court rules in this case, then the case can go up to the US Supreme Court for them todecide, but I have a feeling (my gut instinct) that the SCOTUS will stay out of the fray on this one.

Also, it seems odd to me that the people making the biggest rukkus about the whole MN recount deal (which was mandated by state law in this scenario) are people living outside of the state. As flawed as a recount is, I'd prefer it than wasting MN taxpayer money on a special election or other such expensive solutions. I've heard people yell up to the heavens (sometimes rightly so) that the recount is not necessarily the best option, but I've yet to hear from those same people what a good alternative would be.

Cubfan said...

Can we please get back to ignoring Mule Rider? You all were doing so well letting him jerk off in private.

RivierRatt said...

Nate,

Wow. I'm very impressed by your analysis here. Thanks for the point-by-point refutation. (You make it look easy.)



This one's for you, Paul!

michael said...

Look, the right wing should shut up, since Franken is a fundraising gift to them. Fascinating how shocked I tell you, shocked they are this time around, as opposed to Bush V Gore in 2000. While it doesn't remotely undo the damage of SCOTUS' theft of a presidency and attendant damage to our world standing, the economy, the constitution and the environment (to name a few), it is a little bit of satisfying payback. Squeal like a pig, WSJ, and beautiful dissection, Nate. At least one of the politicians in Washington will intentionally be a comedian, and Franken is a smart, if rather Clintonian (positionally) figure. Good riddance to the man who brought new meaning to ethically-bankrupt opportunism, Norm Coleman.

Juris said...

Nate: I am also a regular reader of the WSJ and have an online subscription. I read it for the numbers, mostly, along with stories about the economy.

But in the last year the WSJ has also greatly enriched its political coverage on its front pages. I frequently copy or forward analytic journalism pieces from WSJ to other people.

But then there's the Opinion section. My God, where do such troglodytes live during the daytime? Because at night they come out and write the most ignorant things.

Statler N Waldorf said...

Juris....

You read it for the articles? My brother says the same thing about Playboy.

Chris said...

The journal has gone steadily downhill over the last two decades. I subscribed for many years because I wanted the business news, but the business coverage has been weak for several years. They have stopped reporting business facts and have focused on perception, personality, and politics. You would have had a better idea about the facts of the economy before the meltdown from just about any other source. The Dow Jones mission: "To be the world's best provider of business content and information services..." Unfortunately, they no longer provide high quality information, and this started well before Murdoch.

Robert said...

A debate on the recount between Nate Silver and the WSJ is like a wresting match between Jesse Ventura and Pee Wee Harman (you are Jesse). Of course we all know that the WSJ news pagers are an excellent newspaper and the 2 opinion pages are ultraright and hacktakular.

I think you should be kind and give them a chance to redeem themselves. How about rewriting the post only noting demonstrable errors of fact in the editorial and sending it in as a letter to the editor. If they have any integrity at all (and pigs fly) they will publish it along with an editorial note apologizing for their errors.

Also I think the canvassing board should sue them for libel. Very v ery hard for public figures to win a libel case and much harder against an editorial than a news story. However the number of demonstrable false claims shows complete disregard for the truth.

Jason K. said...

New JerseyANS , not New JerseyITES, Nate.

Otherwise, thanks for keeping the WSJ on their toes.

PhilosophicalWaiter said...

Years ago I subscribed to the WSJ but eventually I couldn't stomach giving any money to support their antediluvian editorials. Which is sad because much of their reporting was excellent.

This editorial was simply another example of giving cover to all of the far-right republican faithful to believe that all democrats are corrupt and worse. The accuracy or truth of their statements are besides the point: few people really want to take the trouble to ensure that they are receiving accurate information. Most all of us simply want to read things that tell us what we want to believe. That's why Rush Limbaugh is a successful radio host and why Ann Coulter can write best sellers.

What I especially like about 538 is that Nate goes to exceptional, even excrutiating lengths, to be accurate and precise in his analyses. Keep it up, Nate!

cjk002 said...

The real proble, is that the Wall St Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch, who employs Bill O'Reilly, who hates Al Franken.

If FOX News Channel is willing to lie to keep Democrats from being elected, then why wouldn't the Wall Street Journal?

I am a Fractal said...

It's sad to watch what happens to great media institutions when Murdoch gets his dirty lying paws on them.

becky55438 said...

Nate - The 177 ballots from the Ramsey county precinct were pretty well explained in early articles in the Star Trib. A machine broke down early on election day ( this was documented in an on line blog for election anomolies before the poles even closed) People continued to vote while they waited for a replacement machine, when the machine arrived the guys hauled the broken one away and took it back to central lock up, but 177 ballots were still in the broken machine, and this situation escaped notice until the recount started when the ballots issued did not match the ballots cast.

The apprarant inconsistincies with "X" ed out ovals is statutory, one "X'ed out oval is a voter changing their mind and does not count, more than one ( on either side of the ballot) constitures a voting pattern and the vote counts.

yoshi said...

What's sad is the inability of people to separate reporting versus editorial. WSJ remains an excellent newspaper with in depth well written stories. FiveThirtyEight remains an excellent resource for analysis of information.

Both suffer from editorials. Most notably FiveThirtyEitht.com suffers from comments so immature its not even worth commenting on. What it needs is a moderator to remove the trash such as the 'first' posts... I wil take the WSJ letters section well before the comment section of this sight any minute of the week.

Mike in Maryland said...

This comment from the WSJ opinion got me to thinking:
more than 25 precincts now have more ballots than voters who signed in to vote.

How could that be?

Here's one scenario:

There were 500 people in the precinct who voted in person, thus signing in on the sign-in sheets.

Five of those people did not vote for Senator, so the precinct had 495 votes for Senate candidates.

In that same precinct, 15 people voted in the Senate race by absentee ballot. Let's say all 15 of the ballots, or any number over five, were determined to be valid. To make the argument easier to follow, let's say 10 were accepted, 5 were rejected. When the absentee ballots are opened, those ballots are included in the precinct count, and are not differentiated from all other ballots cast in that precinct. We now have 505 votes cast in that precinct.

There were 500 people who signed in when they voted in person on Election day in that precinct, but the precinct is logically and legally reporting that 505 votes were cast in the precinct.

And if one of those 5 rejected absentee ballots is determined to have been wrongly rejected, then the total votes for Senate in that precinct is 506.

Anyone see anything amiss from the scenario I presented above?

What I'm surprised about, if the above scenario of correct, is that only 25 precincts reported more total votes after the recount than persons who voted in person on November 4. I would expect that at least 10% of the precincts would have such a situation.

David Wintheiser said...

At the risk of feeding the troll even more, I'll say that I find the argument simply hilarious.

Dismissing the opinions of another poster while then arguing that the big problem with this site is that Mr. Silver has his head so far up his rectum that he doesn't see how crappy the rest of the world has it? Comedy gold!

Oh, and if he really thinks that this site and its community are just a bunch of ultra-Left 'tards who are irrelevant in the face of the grand sweep of history, then why is he bothering to even comment here?

You can't learn this kind of delicious imperviousness to irony or clueless self-inertia in the public schools -- score one for home-schooling!

Mark A. Sadowski said...

The WSJ's political coverage is merely following the path of its economics coverage. They stopped publishing long insightful economics editorials in favor of short economic glibitorials (and yes this seemed to happen after Murdoch took over). I advise anyone who wants real economics news to look elsewhere.

mhz said...

@becky55438- very nice post- thanks

mhz said...

@sam-"both these women"?? what??

anthonyy said...

Ritchie may well be in a good position to sue for libel. The WSJ's weakness from a legal point of view is neatly reflected in Nate's adroit demolition job. It is one thing to prove that an opinion is wrong and libellous, but almost all of the WSJ article is statements of a factual nature that are based on falsehoods. As Nate has demonstrated, it is actually quite straightforward to disprove that kind of material.

I wonder how much Ritchie might get? They have certainly besmirched his professional reputation about as profoundly as you possibly could.

Eric said...

The WSJ *used* to be a good newspaper, but ever since being bought out (what, two years ago) it has become a right wing propaganda mouthpiece not dissimilar to Faux news.

The name still exists, little more.

Skeptic said...

@ Yoshi

Comparing the comments posted on Fivethirtyeight.com with an editorial in the WSJ is not realistic. An editorial has the approval of the publisher by definition. The comments posted here are the opinions of the poster and no one elese.

I think the WSJ was going downhill even before they wore bught by Murdoch. The editorials have been pushing the Neocon agenda on both economics and foreign policy for at least ten years.

liberalpercy said...

Mule Rider, you said:

"I'm not from Minnesota, so if they want a loon like that representing them, then go ahead. It'll only help conservatives in the long run as once Franken is exposed for the radical nutjob we know he is, then it will only spell trouble for Democrats/Liberals."

Funny how wingnuts always think the public in general will reject Liberals once they are 'exposed'. Time to wake up and smell the facts, mulelover. We are now a center-left country thanks to eight years of Conservative failures.

Obama is a Liberal (the Most Liberal Senator according to the Right Wing) and he won in a landslide. The Senate is now 59-41 Democrats (that's the Liberal Party, isn't it?). The House is 59% Democrats.

Doesn't that tell you something, Mule? Your policies are repudiated, your politicians rejected, and Al Franken will be a great Liberal Senator!

momo said...

As a resident of Minnesota who has followed the campaign, election, and recount very closely, including listening to or watching ALL of the debates in the primary as well as those between Coleman, Barkley and Franken, I can tell you that the WSJ editorial is propaganda, pure and simple.
MN had a fair election and a fair and transparent recount, due to the efforts of a lot of very serious and competent election officials, volunteers, and the intense public scrutiny of a batch of highly paid lawyers as well as citizen-journalists like those at The UpTake.
I listened to Franken and Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer answer questions on public radio for an hour and a half on a range of policy issues before the primary. Nelson-Pallmeyer was, iin fact, the candidate of the left, but Franken, although more centrist, satisfied me as to his intelligence, his detailed knowledge of the issues, and his long track-record of working for the DFL to help elect candidates like Wellstone, Tim Walz and many others, behind the scenes and without a lot of fuss. Those who dismiss him as a loony because he used to write for SNL are too lazy to actually see what he has said and written over the last several years as an active debater of right-wing activists. I'm glad he won, and proud that he'll be my representative.
Thanks to Nate, and others, who have responded to debunk the deliberate lies in the WSJ editorial. This recount was squeaky clean, folks. Coleman will be busy defending himself from charges of corruption in office in the near future, so he'd better save some of his lawyer money for that.

Stephen said...

very, very impressive.

Tripp said...

Some brief comments:

"Paris Sailin" - Brilliant. I'm gonna steal it!! It is as good as "Margo Forehead" and twice as topical.

A blowhard troll kid bragging about never voting but confidently predicting the future of American politics - priceless.

The WSJ - as fraudulent as Paypal. They both need to be hit where it hurts - the pocket book.

Mark said...

The WSJ lost all its credibility when Murdoch got involved. Just like his other media, the slant became apparent immediately. That's why I stopped reading it.

Mark said...

FYI: the Financial Times does a better job of financial and economic reporting than the WSJ, still employs fact checkers and doesn't write "glibitorials"

Charles said...

I'm German and I've been reading (and on occasion posting on) 538 since February 2008.

MR has sunk to a new low by dismissing the views of us foreigners as "worthless". As if he were the 538 gatekeeper.

Anyway, since he considers Nate a "bottom feeder", he might as well take his troll act elsewhere.

'nuff about that... Too bad to see the WSJ to sink so low and cast aside all journalistic standards when it comes to their editorial page.

Weldon said...

Nate - FireJoeMorgan would be proud.

oct said...

Ah the wall Street Journal--the place where Republican Babies Cry their lies. I guess the paper is finished as a credible source for News.

Republicans are sore losers.

triopse said...

Republican skeptics appear to be critical of the enhanced democracy in the state of Minnesota where the object of an election is "voter intent" and where human oversight of each ballot may supersede the mechanized tallies of an election night. Do you remember the hopes of Republicans in Florida, 2000, where, at first, it was asserted that a true election recount is only a redo of the machine count - no hands, no eyes, and no consideration for disenfranchised voters?
Wherever there are elections there is a reason in the casting of each ballot and when there is an election recount, where lost votes are found and the unfounded are lost, those reasons become the causes of our democracy.
Today, Al Frankin owes his office to the re-enfranchised electors of his state - whoever they are. May we strive to hear the others, everywhere, who are sometimes cast away and may we always appreciate the reminder of their (capital W) Worth.

freelunch said...

Mark,

The Wall Street Journal Opinion section has never had any credibility because it has no integrity. Murdoch would be hard-pressed to have made it worse. The reporting still seems to work, probably because businessmen don't want to make their day-to-day decisions based on delusional right-wing propaganda.

Chief Editor, NEW FREE TIMES said...

Wow. A partisan GOP hit piece writer posing as an objective poll watcher. Thats original. Have you ever said anything positive ever about any poll which ever showed the GOP on top. Didn't think so. Why should we place your opinion above say - Bill Ayers, now writing for the Huffington Post. And we all know how non-partisan that rag is.

Jack said...

Mule Rider said: I'm (my thoughts and opinions) considered "worthless" or "meaningless" in other countries. I'm only reciprocating the same feelings in reverse.


Actually, your comments are pretty meaningless and worthless here, too MR, save the tremendous display of hatred and bitterness you show. We can all use you as a shining example of how NOT to behave towards our fellow planetary inhabitants.

David said...

Why is everyone forgetting that News Corp bought the Wall Street Journal, and now it's part of the Fox News Channel empire?

It's not the same newspaper it was in 2007. It's Fox News now. Don't forget that.

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daiqianwen said...

YoYo said...

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ass said...

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ass said...

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