12.08.2008

The Wrong Ads and the Wright One

At the Dole Institute panel last week, I got into an extended discussion with Sarah Simmons and Christian Ferry, the gracious and sporting McCain senior staffers present, about the wisdom or lack thereof of McCain's messaging strategy. My point, which I might or might not have articulated very well, was that maintaining the strength of the McCain brand -- and particularly, maintaining the differentiation between the McCain brand and the Republican brand -- was an essential component of any winning strategy. This is the same point that I tried to make in the Los Angeles Times in August, at which time McCain was polling within the margin of error against Obama. I argued that this had at least as much to do with McCain as with Obama, and that against virtually any other Republican, Obama would have been cruising. I then suggested to Simmons and Ferry that certain of their commercials, such as the 'Education' ad (a.k.a. kindergarten sex ed), the 'Celebrity' ad, and various of their Bill Ayers commercials, were petty and vindictive enough as to have undermined McCain's brand, and made him easier to caricature as a generic Republican.

What exactly is the McCain brand, by the way? I would argue that at its strongest, it was organized around two themes: honor and independence. These commercials, particularly 'Education', seemed dishonorable, as did the negative and often smallball (e.g. "Lipstick on a Pig") tone of the campaign. The notion that McCain was independent, meanwhile, was also undermined by the tone of his campaign, which may have reminded voters too much of the Bush/Rove brand of politics -- although the selection of Sarah Palin was probably the bigger impediment there.

Simmons and Ferry responded by saying that their campaign had perceived the election as a referendum on Barack Obama, and that only by undermining Obama could they hope to win. I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I would argue that it was a necessary rather than sufficient condition. That is, in order to win an election in which Republicans faced a 7-10 point generic ballot disadvantage, McCain had to both:

(i) Undermine Obama's brand, e.g. differentiate Obama in an unfavorable way from a generic Democrat, and

(ii) Present some reasonably compelling alternative, e.g. differentiate McCain in a favorable way from a generic Republican.

Had McCain managed to do one of these things but not the other -- say, undermine Obama while taking himself down a notch in the process -- the election might have been a little closer than it turned out to be, but Obama would probably have prevailed by 2-3 points on the strength of base turnout, with a lot of independents simply getting fed up with the whole thing and staying home. As it happened, however, McCain really managed to do neither; his unfavorables peaked mere days before the election, while he never managed to make much of a dent in Obama's numbers.

Perhaps accomplishing both of these things at once was impossible -- McCain could not have substantially damaged Obama's brand without substantially damaging his own. In this case, the election was probably unwinnable, at least once the financial crisis hit.

The best attempt I have seen, however, may have come in the form of an ad that the McCain campaign chose not to run, which is an unaired spot they apparently were producing on Jeremiah Wright. Click forward to about 1:15 in the ABC News clip below to see the commercial:



There are two things that make this commercial effective. Firstly, it sets up an obvious contrast between the two candidates: McCain as honorable (cue the POW footage), and Obama as less so (cue "God Damn America"). None of the other commercials ("Celebrity", Ayers, etc.) really managed to do that, or at least not very explicitly. Secondly, the ad shows some restraint. Wright is on screen for a grand total of five seconds, just long enough to get the point across, but he's part of a broader narrative, and there isn't the scolding and overbearing tone of many of McCain's commercials.

Now, I don't think that this commercial would have been any sort of a magic bullet -- particularly not if it was released in the final few days of the campaign, when the media would surely have slammed it as a sign of desperation. But, this is arguably a fairer attack than Ayers or "Education", and if it had aired in July or August instead of those Britney Spears commercials, it might have had more lasting resonance.

Simmons and Ferry also said that the decision not to go after Obama on Wright was not really a calculated move at all; McCain had vetoed the idea, and that was that. You can choose to believe that or not. I do tend to believe it, because it squares with my impression of McCain (both the man and his campaign) as being more ad-hoc than methodical or strategic.

For better or for worse, there aren't a lot of politicians who would have made that decision. But that, in a way, is precisely my premise: McCain was pretty well differentiated from a generic politician, and particularly a generic, circa 2008, oogedy-boogedy Republican. If McCain wasn't willing to air an ad on Jeremiah Wright -- well, then, the McCain campaign should have been shouting from the rooftops that this was the case. And they should have been working backward from that decision by also not airing ads like "Education", which had half the impact for twice the sacrifice of credibility.

All easier to say in hindsight, of course. But at the end of the day, the McCain campaign was too cynical to believe that the older, more maverick-y version of their candidate could have closed the sale. McCain had to pander to the base in the primaries because that's how things are done in the Republican Party. He had to attack his opponent's character (even if it meant tarnishing his own) because that's what Republicans do. But Republicans have also been losing elections in droves since Hurricane Katrina hit, and a campaign that didn't have the self-confidence to perceive that was probably due to meet the same fate.

119 comments

David said...

There is only one reason McCain failed, and that is the economic crash in late September, before which he was actually ahead in polls (a much, much longer "convention bounce" than Obama's, if that is your preferred explanation of it). After that his chances sunk, and with it, so did his campaign.

David said...

Nate, I like this site in large part because you seem to be one of few bloggers to put partisan prejudices aside while reporting the facts. In this post- indeed, any post with the word "Palin" in it- this quality falters a bit.

Juris said...

@David: McCain didn't lose because of the economic crash. He lost because of how he reacted to the crash, with his insane reassurance that "the fundamentals of the economy are strong."

Then he made another miscalculation. He went to DC and ended up endorsing the bailout, thereby attaching himself to the Bush debacle of an economic policy and solution -- at the very time when he could have been taking his "populist line" and continued to campaign against Bush. AND against Obama who, after all, also bought into the bailout.

In short, McCain campaigned badly and did himself in.

Statler N Waldorf said...

Why are we still talking about John McCain? Isn't that election over?

Please, enough with the retrospectives. I just hate those, because there's only so much time you can waste dwelling on things that are done and over with. Should we drudge up the Dole campaign next? Maybe we can discuss Adlai Stevenson's failed Presidential bids while we're at it.

Listen, these things are like New Year's Eve TV shows about The Year in Review. They're only interesting immediately after that year has passed, and then, they're boring. electoral retrospectives are interesting the first week or two after the election. After that, they become tiresome.

Enough looking backward. I want to look at the present moment.

Redshift said...

Statler -- I left you a reply in the previous thread.

Katty said...

David, I disagree.

It's hardly fair to compare the length of a convention bounce when the Republican convention happened right after the Democratic one.

Plus that convention bounce - primarily because of the excitement Palin engendered - dissipated for two crucial reasons in addition to the crash:

1. People got to KNOW Palin better.
2. Obama easily won all the debates.

That these two factors developed in approximately the same time frame as the crash does not negate their importance.

Murray said...

John McCain lost the election because the fundamentals were against him. What was clear was that Obama had about 100 more "solid" electoral votes than McCain. This made his path to victory extremely smooth. In fact, I think that Obama had at least 269 EV's without the financial crisis due to IA, NM, NV (a state where ground game made a huge difference). Add Colorado, which never really trended toward McCain, and game's over.

The difference the crisis made was that Obama won by 7 and 365 EV's instead of 2-4 and somewhere between 270-300 EV's.

I'm glad the ad never aired. It would have injected a racial component to the campaign, which was suprisingly clear of such things.

Matthew Wintergarden said...

I t makes me sad that the US has voters that would base their choice on a television commercial.

Let me picture their (anti)logic:

"Let's see, I know that each candidate has pages of discussions regarding each issue, and have voting records that largely parallel their platforms, but instead of doing some research, I'm just going to vote for the guy with better commercials."

I know you guys need to talk about this stuff because it IS a factor, but it would be totally awesome if, for once, the media chose to shed some light on the ridiculous nature of voters placing one-third of their paychecks into the hands of the person whose PR firm runs the most convincing ads.

Sean said...

Nope David. McCain would not have won if the financial crisis didnt hit. McCain was ahead at the time because of his post convention bounce that was already fading by the time the crisis hit. Obama would have overtaken him anyway. McCain led for what - 2 weeks? out of the whole 5 month general election campaign. Beside Obama wiped the floor with him in the debates and Obama had the better ground game and GOTV. No way McCain won.

phyllis said...

McCain announced Palin the day after the Dem Convention and all the talk was about Palin from that time on, it helped tamp down the bounce that Obama would have got if the conventions had been held more conventionally. jmho.

Redshift said...

David: Wow, what impressive omniscience! The only reason, you say!

If you were here when Nate was posting about convention bounces, you would have seen a very interesting curve that results from adding together two typical convention bounces, one opposite and slightly later than the other. That is why Obama's convention bounce was shorter than McCain's, because it immediately began to be canceled out, whereas McCain's was able to have the characteristic long tail.

As I eyeballed it at the time (before the 538 graph became compressed by the following month of data), subtracting out the bounce/counter-bounce curve would have left a nearly linear run-up in Obama's lead from just before the Democratic Convention until Election Day. (That's a chart I'd be really interested in seeing Nate generate, btw, I think it would help decide for future elections whether the decision to abandon a "bounce" adjustment was a good one. Look, Statler, I've made this relevant to the future! :-)

McCain didn't have a steady lead that was suddenly reversed by the financial crisis, he had already hit his peak and was declining before that. It didn't help him because his poor response compared to Obama's kept him from changing the trajectory of public perceptions to his favor, but it wasn't definitive.

Much like statements in the financial news about what "caused" the day's movements in the stock market, those giving campaign narratives love to attribute changes in candidates' fortunes to big dramatic events that happen at roughly the right time. But correlation is not causation, in either case.

Linden said...

Nate makes a very good point. McCain likely would have lost anyway, but this aspect of McCain's campaign bothered me quite a bit.

Glenn said...

I think that had McCain run the ad, both candidates would have tanked leaving a nice hole for Ron Paul to come through.
Ron Paul all the way in 2012!! Look out Obama and Palin. Paul Ya'll!!

wv. polital A word Sarah Palin made up describing what she is to Sarkozy.

Redshift said...

And furthermore, David, you do yourself no favors by demonstrating the inability to distinguish between "opinion" and "bias" that conservative talk radio and blogs seems to have made endemic in Republicans.

Nate created a post where he presented his views and gave quite a bit of information to support them. You are perfectly welcome to disagree, and present reasons for your disagreement (obviously, none of us are expected to present the level of research Nate does.) However, the fact that you disagree is not evidence of "partisan prejudice," and declaring that you perceive such prejudice without even vaguely connecting it to anything specific is not a counter-argument.

Without it, this comment is little more than "don't post stuff I don't like." And the two answers to that are "no one's making you read it, skip the ones you don't like" and Get Your Own Blog.

Kylopod said...

I was following the daily tracking polls from Rasmussen and Gallup, and the modest lead which McCain enjoyed after the convention had already disappeared before the financial meltdown.

I do think it's quite possible that the financial meltdown made the race unwinnable for McCain--but I would say that Obama would still have won in the absence of the meltdown, though it would probably have been closer.

Redshift said...

Statler -- close, but not quite. Angle brackets, the "less than" and "greater than" symbols. Use "less than" everywhere you've got { or [, and "greater than" for } or ], and then you'll have it.

Redshift said...

Or, to further clarify:

< and >

I didn't include these in the comment above, because when I tried to use them in the last thread, the comment never appeared, but maybe I'll be luckier this time.

Statler N Waldorf said...
This post has been removed by the author.
jenny said...

Hm, interesting. One thing you're good at, Nate, is separating out your political analysis from any sort of moral reasoning. And I really do mean that as a compliment.

Say, speaking the election of 2008, it would be interesting to see posts on a) the performance of the 538 regression analysis; and b) the performance of various pollsters, as well as the 538 pollster ratings; and c) an update of the political history charts.

Statler N Waldorf said...

This is Why McCain Lost

McCain's environmental policy sucks, so even the animal kingdom was behind Obama.

RufusRules said...

Great post. Wish I had more time to digest this stuff without a 9 a.m. project deadline looming and an all-nighter staring me in the face. Short comment is that for all my Obama-lovin'-pinko-commieness, it was a shame to see McCain get sucked down the Rovian rabbit hole this year. He may not have won no matter how he campaigned, but he would have emerged with his integrity and his brand intact had his campaign not turned into a circus sideshow.

Also, Statler, just Google "formatting and hypertext links in HTML" and you'll get a wide variety of info on how to format.

hill.tops said...

*

This ad would have blown-up in their faces

"Character matters when no one is looking"

Oh, please.

That only would have brought intense scrutiny into McCain's first divorce, his affair with lobbyist Vicky Isman, Jetting around the Bahamas with Keating, and his automobile accident that may have involved a fatality and drunken driving.

Please, character was not an issue McCain could bank on. He knew what was out there.

Kennyb said...

Nate,

One thread, only 26 comments, and already 2 are asking for things I've been asking for for weeks. You needed do this to indulge me, of course, but many of us would clearly like to see:

1) Per Redshift, above, what the Supertracker would have looked like in the post-convention period had we not voted to eliminate your convention bounce corrections.

and 2) Per Jenny, above, "posts on a) the performance of the 538 regression analysis; and b) the performance of various pollsters, as well as the 538 pollster ratings; and c) an update of the political history charts."

Surely you have tested your model based on the actual results. OUT WITH IT!

(To be fair, there have been post-election posts with drips and drabs of this type of analysis, but nothing all-encompassing).

Kennyb said...

Err..."need NOT do this to indulge me". Sorry.

Kennyb said...

Minnesota Update:

Minneapolis Gives Up on 133 Lost Ballots...

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/35728824.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUss

"Dinkytown", indeed...

Nick said...

well Nate can see some point of your blog on the Wright issue. however here in GA the 527 ads were running everyday in the last few days of the election. Everyone in the country had heard about Wright for 2 solid months on every station. Barack gave a historic speech on race, and moved on through this Rev Wright "BS" .. anyone who was going to be swayed by something they already was full aware of they were never on board.. What i do know about Obama's coalition. is Once they were on board, they do not get off.
McCain ran a horrible campaing very dishonorable. Yes going after Barack brand was the way to go, but you also have to develop a brand that makes people want you over the other. McCain had no plan/ no game/ no anything. It was a campaing running on fumes, yes the economic crisis lit a match to Barack campaign, but McCain erractic behavior about the crisis was the nail in the coffin. So no ammount of rehashed controversy was going to help McCain, it was just going to solidify what was already solidified.

Paul said...

It was abundantly clear that McCain and his campaign did not work well together. You are correct that the messaging undercut the McCain brand. Along the same lines, Palin undercut part of the McCain brand turing him into the risky candidate. You cannot seperate Palin and messaging because she was intentionally very central.

Despite the poor environment, John McCain and his staff lost this campaign all on their own. The poor messaging didn't give republicans a chance. The correct choice was a centrist campaign with Lieberman as VP and the 2000 platform. Instead we were discussing spending freezes in the middle of economic meltdown.

hill.tops said...

Paul-

The correct choice was a centrist campaign with Lieberman as VP and the 2000 platform.

The problem is Lieberman is pro choice and Jewish. The Jew hating and Choice hating freaks that make up the GOP (Hagee/Robertson/Gingrich/Dobson/Buchanan) would have waged a floor fight against Lieberman, and if they lost, they would have walked out.

hill.tops said...

Let me extend my remarks.

If Lieberman had been picked as Veep, that big fat idiot Rush would have been screaming treason day and night.

On his own, McCain could barely attract anyone to an event.

On the other hand, the holy-roller base came out in droves for numb skull Palin.

Sure some soft "R"s and indies would have been attracted to the cross-party mumbo-jumbo, but the base would have deserted en masse.

AML said...

Nice article. I've been convinced for a while now that McCain's own personality did him in. He wants to be a maverick, but he isn't a consistent maverick. This can be a huge benefit in politics (both sides of the aisle are going to be courting you constantly). But in a presidential race, it's a liability, because you have a tough time showing people that you can be consistent. This makes is really hard for people to identify what it is you truly stand for, which (I think) is why he wasn't as strong with his base or with independents as he would have liked.

McCain's penchant for being inconsistent extended to the ads themselves. Why Ayers, but not Wright? Why Palin instead of Lieberman?

Ultimately, I'm glad that he avoided the Wright stuff. Not only did it allow me to maintain some level of respect for him, but it kept race (for the most part) out of the election spotlight. But, more than that, his inconsitent decision-making points to the likelihood that Obama would be the better pick. Both wanted to be more centrist, but Obama did a better job of promising us that he could be centrist in a consistent way (even if that consistentcy came from liberal overtones).

PorridgeGun said...

David said...

There is only one reason McCain failed, and that is the economic crash in late September, before which he was actually ahead in polls (a much, much longer "convention bounce" than Obama's, if that is your preferred explanation of it). After that his chances sunk, and with it, so did his campaign.


Bollocks.


McCain was always trailing Obama by a few points, and occasionally by as much as 8 or 9. And his bounce by less than Bush's in 2004. That's the reason Obama supporters didn't panic when McCain took the lead.


As good a campaign as Obama and his people ran, his television ads, both positive and negative, were the worst I've ever seen - utterly weak and forgetable. The best campaign ads they produced were apparently the ones produced at short notice and with minimum testing, such as the 7 Houses ad put out literally hours after McCain's gaffe. It drove the liberal blogs crazy that Obama never unloaded on McCain. If the Obama campaign had put out more effective, he would have won by double digits. I hope they've learn't their lesson.

JMNorris said...

Simmons and Ferry responded by saying that their campaign had perceived the election as a referendum on Barack Obama ....

There's the problem right there. As long as the election was a referendum on Obama, Obama wins. They needed to make the election about something else. While they needed to do something to blunt Obama's positives, the election needed to be about something else--and it is the job of the campaign strategists to come up with that something else.

While Bush's negatives certainly helped Obama, the Obama campaign made the election about something else: hope and change. While this was truly was a most inane message, it gave the campaign a central theme to make the election "about" and around which to organize everything else. Go as negative as you like, there still has to be some main theme to the campaign other than your opponent.

BTW, the Celebrity ad worked quite well for McCain in at least one respect: it changed the tone of Obama's campaign. The Obama campaign became much less messianic and much more nitty gritty after that. Unfortunately for the McCain people, that change in tone probably helped the Obama campaign.

fred said...

Poor McCain lost in 2004 when people relaized they had been Swift Boated. People were looking for real info, beyond the lies they had been told in th past. They saw Bush policies and knew his election was a lie and were goping to figure out the truth. THIS is why a true maverick that did not attack Obama on stupid crap, but really was the McCain of 2000 might have won. They could have even used the fact that McCain was Swift Boated by Rove in 2000 to make him real. They didn't, they went with the same crap and got only a portion of the Bush voters - because the Bush voters had been turned off by Bush!

A true maverick might have won as a repub, but the Palin pick and the negative attacks just didn't fly - Rove had lied to us twice. We weren't falling for it again.

Ironically, the Swift Boat attacks energized Obama's voters more than McCain's. They sure as hell energized me.

Foregone Conclusion said...

I thought, and continued to believe until a couple of minutes ago, that McCain was without doubt the best choice from the Republican primary. Now I'm not to sure.

I think that a Republican candidate had to have two things to win this year;

(a) be popular (and in 2008, that meant 'be as distanced as possible from the GOP') with Independents and Democrats

(b) be able to motivate the base, which can only happen if you're close to the GOP

Can you spot the immediate glaring problem here? (I might add that McCain only won in the primary because of the unfair way that delegates are distributed in the Republican primary).

So, McCain was unable to whip up base enthusiasm. I considered this relatively unimportant at the time, but as the hyper-motivated Democratic base with its super turnout and amazing GOTV effort shows, I was wrong.

McCain needed someone like Palin to do it for him. The problem was that Palin pulled him towards (b) while losing the value of point (a). Hence the ludicrous attempt of McCain-Palin to paint themselves as 'mavericks' while completely ignoring the fact that she was an unblinking doctrinaire conservative, and McCain not mentioning the swings to the left that made him a maverick.

So, in other words, McCain was going to self-destruct.

It has to be asked, though - who would have done better? Huckabee? Certainly mavericky and appeals to the base, but somewhat hard to spin his seemingly regressive tax policies. Romney? Too plastic to excite the floating voter, too liberal and Mormon to excite the base. Possibly Giuliani, although his kamikaze campaign and subsequent extremely mean spirited remarks at the RNC make me somewhat doubtful (also, too liberal and New York). And before anyone says it, not Ron Paul. Try explaining why you'll abolish Medicare and Social Security without self-destructing with the non-insane voting public.

So, McCain was at least as good as his competitors in the primary. Says a lot about the respective parties at this moment in time that the Democrats were able to come up with two magnificent candidates, and the Republicans came up with a bunch of second-raters. Then again, perhaps it says more about the increasing peculiarity of the Republican party.

fred said...

The repubs would have lost with a traditional republican choice, they needed to step out and risk their shrinking base to have any chance. They didn't - they picked the right guy, but they made him play the game in a way that made him look like a cynic. I think Foregone Conclusion and I agree, we just say it differently. The maverick was no tallowed to be a maverick, and they played to their shrinking base. Here's hoping Huck or Palin makes in 2012, 'cuz the shrinking crazt repub base will lose big again.

homunq said...

I personally, as somebody far off to the left, feel much more positive about Obama than I ever felt about Clinton, or for that matter Gore. It's not because I agree with Obama more (he is just as much of a centrist sell-out); and it's not because I think he's any smarter. It's because I see him as having constancy, an ability to ignore the chattering noise and hold a steady course.

I think that this impression of Obama is probably shared by a lot of people who are a good deal more conservative than me, and I can attest that it can make up for a lot of ideological differences.

And I have exactly the opposite impression of McCain: he is as much of a loose cannon as a maverick. Again, this kind of impression can be far scarier than a simple ideological disagreement.

homunq said...

My above comment was about feelings. Logically, I have a very hard time justifying the weight that constancy holds in my feelings.

patooker said...

I think this would have been a good summer ad because it isn't about Rev. Wright. The message I get is an attempt to call out the political calculations that Obama makes. It would have required some discipline from the people McCain put out there. They would needed to concede that Obama doesn't agree with Wright, "We trust him on that." And then follow with the question "Then why stay? Because it gained him political advantage." So instead of "He hates America", "He isn't really Christian", it becomes "He used religion for political gain." And that would make him like other politicians. It wouldn't be great for the base, but seeing someone use a claim to Christianity to advance, wouldn't have hurt. Then for the rest of the campaign, any time he proposed what republicans felt was too much spending or taxes to punish the rich, or renegotiating NAFTA, they could trot out, "He sat in that church because it helped him get elected, now he's making promises that can not be kept in this economy." And again, that hits at character and trust.

homunq said...

ps. I meant Bill Clinton, although it goes for Hillary as well.

joel said...

The only reason that ad came out was so McCain could try to sell the idea he ran a campaign of issues not slime.
The reality is that commercial wasn`t needed, he was running William Ayers ads saying the same thing and they just blew up in his face. Anyone that cared about Wright wasn`t voting for Obama anyway and that was decided a long time ago.
Economic meltdown or not Obama was never going to lose this election, it just may have been closer. People wanted a change and McCain wasn`t it.By the way per cnn poll Obama has an approval of 79%. Usually you get a number like that after a disaster, I guess the name of this one was Bush.

DanR said...

The Republicans probably were going to lose this election no matter who they ran, and no matter how they ran their campaign. I do believe it would have been much closer with a different VP pick, and with a different message.

If McCain had picked a solid VP candidate he might well have won Pennsylvania, Indiana, Ohio, and possibly Florida. Palin was a disaster because the pick insulted large numbers of people. She may be popular among the right wing crazies in the Republican Party, but she was a joke to almost everyone else.

With a solid VP pick McCain then could have focused on Obama's lack of experience. With a highly targeted campaign Obama's programs could have been picked apart. They could have undermined Obama's support in the middle. This would have required a highly focused message of what McCain had to offer, and would have required far more discipline than his campaign demonstrated.

Nate is right about those negative ads. A lot of us were very offended by them. Their lack of honesty was so apparent. The trickster aspect of them completely destroyed their effectiveness. A negative ad has to be based on some element of truth. Theirs were not.

None of it might have worked, but I bet the margin would have been much closer.

Alex S. said...

When I saw the unaired ad I thought that it was pretty effective, indeed more effective than many other McCain ads. I don't quite understand why he chose to veto this one, but not the others. But McCain's unpredictability was one of my main reasons against him anyway.

Did he have a chance to win at all? Not with the way he ran the campaign, maybe not in this national climate. But I find it hard to pinpoint the moment he lost, mainly because the Katie Couric-interviews with Sarah Palin leaked out over several days, right when Lehman Brothers tanked. So I guess the safest answer is that he lost because of the unvetted pick of Sarah Palin AND the economic crisis, but either of them were enough on their own I guess. Still, I thought McCain "should" have lost by more than the 7,2% he did. But I might have underestimated the polarization of this country.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

The Obama team clearly won the spin war.

Shortly after the not visiting the troops ad, the celebrity ad, the one ad, the kindergarten ad, Obama's team began to hammer away at what a disrespectful campaign the McCain had turned into.

Fortunately for Obama, the press caught onto this. Most news stations and talk shows began questioning McCain and all his surrogates.

I believe I've read that in politics, once you are trying to explain yourself, you've already lost the argument. Well, McCain and his surrogates found themselves in this position and were on the defensive for a couple weeks.

This most defiantly chipped into his "Maverick", noble and honorable image that had been built up around him.

The nail in the coffin on his image with the 7 houses gaff. This came about during that downfall from the barrage of questions regarding his negative campaigning.

At that point, it seemed the slightest negativity in any of his commercials just continued to drive his negatives further and further into the gutter.

Then the Bear Stearns collapse happened and that was all she wrote.

Catesby Lewis said...

Nate,

Thanks for this article. You have articulated the concerns that led many Independent McCain supporters to vote for Obama. I was very happy to see the reemergence of McCain's honor during his concession speech.

Juris said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Juris said...

It's easy to forget that McCain lost key states; he didn't just lose margin nationally. While he certainly did mismanage his reaction to the economic crisis, and Palin's choice began to sour shortly before all hell broke loose on the economy, he had already lost key states he needed to win. And he had lost key constituencies he had to do better in, in particular the Latino vote. He had been outcampaigned already by Obama -- the so-called "50 state strategy."

Iowa was effectively gone, as were New Mexico and Colorado. Virginia was teetering Obama's way. Why was Florida beginning to swing toward Obama? How could McCain lose that state, given the mess the Democrats had made in Florida early this year?

Would an 'ad' make a difference in any of these states? I think Nate's instinct when he was on Colbert (October 7), that it was "too late" for McCain to win with a dirty campaign was right.

But then McCain blew what was probably his best real chance: to get on the populist side regarding the economic meltdown. He had to back up his "anti-Wall Street" campaign ads and rhetoric with an anti-Wall Street bailout position. Let Obama be seen as defender of Wall Street.

That was McCain's last best chance to develop momentum from the economic crisis. And he bumbled it. And so went Ohio and the rest of the upper Midwest (e.g., Michigan, Wisconsin) that had seemed to be within his reach til then.

wv: ouchado (I've been hurt!)

Ben said...

I think is completely correct - "Simmons and Ferry responded by saying that their campaign had perceived the election as a referendum on Barack Obama, and that only by undermining Obama could they hope to win." The way to undermine Obama was not to throw dirty, cheap attacks. It was to question his experience. That was the best argument anyone could make against Obama, and the McCain campaign threw that argument out the window with the selection of Palin. Even if she had not been a train wreck, by selecting her, McCain on his own took the best argument against Obama completely off the table.

Cugel said...

Nate, it's so simple: Who the HELL would want to vote for Herbert Hoover in 1932?

It's FAILED REAGANOMICS that brought us to the brink of another Great Depression!

So we should elect another Republican who basically has the SAME POLICIES as the failed George Bush.

CHARACTER doesn't matter a DAMN in 1932 or 2008! We have to assume that both are reasonably patriotic, and we're not having another "I'm more patriotic than thou!" pissing contest. In this crisis we had to move PAST that CRAP and pick the man who seems to have the most ANSWERS!

And that sure as hell wasn't John Bush McCain! Free Market Fundamentalism, Wall Street deregulation leading to an orgy of greedy looting, speculative bubble of overvalued investments, banking collapse, credit squeeze, hemorrhaging jobs, collapsing housing prices. . . where have we heard that all before? Oh, yeah! 1932!

And it was the same smart money boys who said "the economy can regulate itself" in both cases! All that happened is that the generation of people who were adults during the Depression died off and America forgot the lessons of the 1930s!

Then the right-wing regained control over government under Reagan and finally under Bush and unleashed total laissez-faire market "self-regulation" last seen during the 1920s, and exactly the same results ensued.

Instant result? A HUGE speculative bubble, that inevitably collapsed, just as it did in 1930, and during the 1980s with the Savings & Loan $500 billion crisis, just as it did EVERY other time it's been tried!

REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE ECONOMIC THEORY PUT IN PRACTICE INEVITABLY LEADS TO A HUGE BUBBLE THAT THEN COLLAPSES. And takes the banking system, Wall Street and the economy right over a cliff!

And the more you give power to "conservative" "free market" Republicans, the WORSE the crisis when it hits. This time it's just as bad as 1932 because Republicans have set the agenda since 1980, so that even during the Clinton years, the same policies were put forward, the same WRONG DISASTROUS IDEAS tried out.

Republicans act as though the "market collapse" was just bad luck -- part of a normal cycle of boom and bust! They refuse to accept that their favored POLICY of deregulation CAUSED THE PROBLEM!

But, the American people aren't as stupid as our leaders and the morally and intellectually bankrupt Republicans Party! We're smart enough to say ENOUGH TO THIS CRAP!

Let's put someone in charge who is going to take America in a DIFFERENT DIRECTION, because the old one just flat didn't work.

The only thing that could have saved McCain would have been a total brain seizure on the part of the American people. And finally, mercifully, THIS TIME, that didn't happen!

dsimon said...

David: There is only one reason McCain failed, and that is the economic crash in late September, before which he was actually ahead in polls

That's not true. McCain's slide in the polls stated on Sept. 7. Obama regained the lead in the polls before the Sept. 15 Lehman Brothers collapse. Check out the pollster.com graph contained at http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/did-lehman-kill.html.

Yes, the economic conditions probably helped the Obama campaign. But the claim that McCain was ahead before the big troubles hit is a fiction. We can speculate about what might have happened absent our financial problems, but it should be clear that the McCain campaign was having trouble regardless.

dsimon said...
This post has been removed by the author.
dsimon said...

Ben: The way to undermine Obama was not to throw dirty, cheap attacks. It was to question his experience. That was the best argument anyone could make against Obama, and the McCain campaign threw that argument out the window with the selection of Palin. Even if she had not been a train wreck, by selecting her, McCain on his own took the best argument against Obama completely off the table.

I think that's an excellent point, though Republicans tried to spin it the other way by arguing that Obama supporters couldn't criticize Palin because she was more "experienced" than he was.

Michael Kinsley wrote in Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2199029/) that he thought the whole experience issue is a crock because it comes up in every presidential election: if you're a governor, you've got no foreign policy experience, and if you're a legislator, you've got no executive experience. The only job that gets you both is being president.

But regardless of whether "experience" is important, the McCain campaign said it was, and they indeed threw it out the window with Palin.

Jake said...

Wake up, buddy. Where's your Blago article?

Although, Mule Rider (isn't that illegal in most states?), Blago is not even liked by, much less part of, the Obama administration.

zappa2496 said...

I guess Mule Rider failed to notice that it was Obama's favored candidate that the governor try to extort. Not very logical to claim that Obama is corrupt when the incident that is being used to do so was perpetrated against Obama's close friend and chosen replacement.

Cugel said...

David: Let's cut the crap! The economy didn't suddenly go from "fundamentally sound" to pure hell with the Lehman Brothers collapse in mid-September! That was just the FINAL STAGES of an economic collapse that had been going on for some time.

You think that because the media was focused on CRAP, trivial games of Rev. Wright and lapel-pins and who's the "most patriotic" and McCain's a POW that the PEOPLE out here in America didn't know, didn't see that we've been hemorrhaging jobs for years now?

Jobs = Economy!

George Bush would have lost in 2004, due entirely to general economic downturn and the loss of jobs and health care, except that the fear of another 9-11 was still too strong and people weren't willing to trust a Democrat in the White House during what seemed a terrorist crisis.

But, even without that final collapse McCain was going to lose anyway because the "fundamentals of the economy" were NEVER "sound."

McCain was going to lose all the Kerry states, plus Iowa and New Mexico. That's 264 EV. Then Nevada or Colorado and probably BOTH would put Obama over the top. So, Ohio and Virginia and Indiana, and North Carolina, and Florida were just window dressing.

McCain never had a real chance in either Colorado or Nevada. Even during the height of his short-lived "convention bounce" he wasn't leading here in Colorado. And that means that at NO point during the election did McCain ever have a real path to 270 EV.

And he was losing because he was a REPUBLICAN and REPUBLICANS have presided over this mess for the last 8 years. And they haven't been good years David, in case you weren't paying attention!

firdweds said...

The McCain camp should have "accidentaly" leaked the ad, then made much of the fact that McCain had vetoed it. That way the ads gets lots of free airtime and McCain looks principled.

Anyone know what's going to happen in Illinois now? Is the seat going to be vacant when the new Congress is sworn in? Can the Governer argue that since appointing a Senator to fill a vacancy is a Constitutional prerogative he has every right to sell it?

zan said...

Ill. Gov Blagojevich arrested on corruption charges (Reuters)

In Illinois, the governor selects a successor when there is a mid-term Senate vacancy. Obama resigned from the Senate soon after winning the November 4 presidential election.

Blagojevich allegedly was caught on court-authorized wiretaps during the last month.

He was seeking a "substantial" salary for himself at a nonprofit foundation or union affiliated organization, a spot on a corporate board for his wife, promises of campaign cash, as well as a cabinet post or ambassadorship in exchange for his Senate choice, the FBI affidavit added.

Blagojevich, in his second term, is the latest in a string of Illinois governors to run afoul of the law. His immediate predecessor. George Ryan, is in jail following a federal corruption conviction.

Kennyb said...

Hindsight is 20/20, but as Foregone Conclusion wrote above, McCain needed to BOTH energize the Republican base AND court moderates and independents. He made the mistake of identity politics that he thought he could choose Palin to energize the base and that she would pull in enough women and former Hillary supporters to add the moderate/independent numbers he needed. That was a mistake and it backfired on both counts. Palin eneded up generally alienating women, especially Hillary supporters, and Obama did a good (enough) job healing the party, courting the Clintons and coming across as a comfortable Presidential choice. Add to that that Palin did NOT energize the base to nearly the extent that was necessary. GOP voter turnout was down in key battlegrounds and much lower than needed to combat Obama's aggressive GOTV strategy.

What McCain should have done is call the right's bluff and nominated a MODERATE woman (and one who really could be trusted one heartbeat away from the Presidency. She would have been pro-choice (like Kay Bailey Hutchinson) and the right would have been upset, but he had to count on them coming home just like Obama did with the Dems.

firdweds said...

Hindsight is 20/20, but as Foregone Conclusion wrote above, McCain needed to BOTH energize the Republican base AND court moderates and independents. He made the mistake of identity politics that he thought he could choose Palin to energize the base and that she would pull in enough women and former Hillary supporters to add the moderate/independent numbers he needed. That was a mistake and it backfired on both counts. Palin eneded up generally alienating women, especially Hillary supporters, and Obama did a good (enough) job healing the party, courting the Clintons and coming across as a comfortable Presidential choice. Add to that that Palin did NOT energize the base to nearly the extent that was necessary. GOP voter turnout was down in key battlegrounds and much lower than needed to combat Obama's aggressive GOTV strategy.

Energizing the base while at the same time attracting independants is a nearly impossible task. Identity politics, as much as I hate it, is one of the few ways to do this. Palin would have been a brilliant choice, and could have at least made the election a lot closer, if only she were up to the job.

If Palin had aced those interviews and and least fought Biden to a draw the the debate, the election would have been a lot more interesting.

Kennyb said...

firdweds, it might have been difficult, and probably unsuccessful, but Palin was not going to succeed, ever. As I said it would at the time, it lost McCain support in Florida, Virginia and New Hampshire. He had no choice but to try to buck the right and hope he could get them to vote against the scary black redistributor anyway.

Kennyb said...

So, does Blago still get to pick Obama's replacement? Surely not...

This from the indictment, showing how out of touch Blago is from reality, with thanks to Rich Miller at Capital Fax for highlighting it:

"Throughout the intercepted conversations, Blagojevich also allegedly spent significant time weighing the option of appointing himself to the open Senate seat and expressed a variety of reasons for doing so, including: frustration at being “stuck” as governor; a belief that he will be able to obtain greater resources if he is indicted as a sitting Senator as opposed to a sitting governor; a desire to remake his image in consideration of a possible run for President in 2016; avoiding impeachment by the Illinois legislature; making corporate contacts that would be of value to him after leaving public office; facilitating his wife’s employment as a lobbyist; and generating speaking fees should he decide to leave public office."

Blago v. Palin in 2016!!!

livemild said...

MCCAIN LOST BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THAT PEOPLE WOULD VOTE FOR HIM BECAUSE HE WAS WHITE AND OBAMA WASNT

mccain had NO strategy, gave no reason for americans to vote for him, had no plans for the economy or the war, and cared less who his running mate was. he didnt think he had to do anything EXCEPT be white.

i have said it before and i still say it.
but i dont understand why more people dont see that the real reason mccain lost was because of race which he thought he would win on

Dale Petrie said...

I have no problem with a post-mortem, but in light of breaking events, I hope the next post Nate or Sean puts up explains what happens now with the Illinois Senate seat..whether Blagojevich still gets to pick, or who makes that pick now or what does it depend on and such. Any chance it won't go to a Dem now?

Statler N Waldorf said...

Holy crap. Blago's really out to lunch. He must have known this would be the single highest-profile decision of his career; the entire world is watching, because this isn't just any seat, it's the one recently occupied by the most powerful man in the world.

For Blago to take bribes to fill that seat when he knew everyone was looking is either 1) fucking insane 2) a sign that his balls are made out of solid brass or 3) he just doesn't care anymore.

dvdmgsr said...

I agree with Nate's basic premise, that McCain would have done much better if he had run more of a high-road campaign.

The problem is that he was at a huge disadvantage from day one, with his successful predecessors in the party in the wings, calling too many of the shots (i.e., engaging in 'oogedy-boogedy'). For every refusal to approve a Jeremiah Wright ad, there were two talking point people on Fox News blabbing about Ayers. The Democrats didn't have that, really, and to what degree they did, they were in an advantageous position because of the economic meltdown.

McCain made it worse by his lack of leadership though. The Bush regime was able to maintain a strong degree of control over the overall message. Ultimately, McCain lacked that leadership, and that reflected as poorly on him as anything. Combined with other poor, shoot from the hip decisions, and his inconsistency with regard to virtually every ethical position he promoted, he simply didn't look like a leader. Leaders make the right decision from the beginning and stick to it. McCain either kept changing his mind or kept saying one thing and doing another.

More than liberal ideology, I think, people wanted a leader in this election, and despite his relative youth and lack of experience, Obama vastly outshone McCain in this regard.

Kennyb said...

To the trolls:

It is clear from the complaint that Obama refused to offer Blagojevich anything for appointing Jarrett.

ROD BLAGOJEVICH said he knows that the President-elect wants Senate Candidate 1 [Jarrett, who recently (after a tip off from the feds?) withrew herself from consideration] for the Senate seat but 'they’re not willing to give me anything except appreciation. F*** them,'" says the complaint.

Kennyb said...

Meet Blago's replacement, the new acting Governor of Illinois:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Quinn_(politician)

Statler N Waldorf said...

Patrick J. Quinn (born December 16, 1948) is an American politician from Illinois.

A career Democrat, Quinn was elected Illinois' 45th Lieutenant Governor of Illinois in 2002, taking office in 2003. However, on December 9, 2008, Governor Rod Blagojevich was taken into federal custody on felony charges of corruption. Quinn is now the acting governor, and will serve the remainer of Blagojevich's term if the latter pleads guilty, or is convicted. Quinn served as the elected Illinois State Treasurer from 1991 to 1995. Prior to state service, Pat Quinn worked in Cook County government. Quinn has two sons, Patrick IV and David, born on April 12, 1983 and December 16, 1984 respectively. Both competed collegiately in track & field specializing in the middle and long distance events.

cut and pasted from Wikipedia.

Looks like this guy's going to name Obama's successor and not Blago.

Kennyb said...

And more Blago appreciation for Obama's unwillingness to go along with his scheme:

“F**k him,” Blagjoveich says of Obama during a lengthy call with top aides and his wife recorded on November 10th, “For nothing? F**k him.”

LongStrider said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Kennyb said...

Someone else may be in trouble:

"Senate Candidate 5," apparently offered money "up front" for the seat, although, as Ben Smith points out, it may refer to fundraising help, as opposed to a bribe.

Statler N Waldorf said...

The good thing is I no longer have to feel ashamed of Jefferson. Y'all have some pretty corrupt politicians up North too, it appears :)

Statler N Waldorf said...

Hey Nate, drop this thread about McCain. He's last month,s news. Blago's the breaking story. Can you write a little something on him?

MSGQuixo said...

I've argued that McCain may have actually been able to take an advantage with the explosion of financial crisis. It was the October Surprise that, like some kind of terrorist attack, could have pushed the electorate to search for a safe experienced leader. The branding/public perception was key and McCain blew it. Especially because of the ads you site, Obama appeared to be the adult in the room.

zappa2496 said...

Again, a bit off topic, but I don't really see a place to discuss this: the SodaHead ads are getting way out of line. The new one showing Obama with several applauding nefarious world leaders with the implication that they approve and support Obama's victory is just one of several such inflammatory ads by SodaHead.

Jack-be-nimble said...

Just like Watergate, this is much bigger than it appears. The corruption in Chicago will taint all including Obama. The only reason I wouldn't support the impeachment of Obama is that we would get the incompetant Biden.

I think we will finally get to the bottom of the corrupt pay for play job that Michelle got as the director of a hospital. Anyone else think that she would have gotten a 300k job if it wasn't tied to Obama corruption. This investigation is just beginning. This will easily swing the 2010 campaign.

I am predicting that the events of today and all of the reverberations will hand the House of representatives to the GOP in 2010.

Statler N Waldorf said...

Again, a bit off topic, but I don't really see a place to discuss this: The Advertisement Spam Disguised as a Topic is getting way out of line. The new one showing Someone Nobody Has Ever Heard Of Before with the implication that he's shocking, controversial with the implication that it's worthy of anyone's attention is just one of the Ads Only An Idiot Would Fall For by the Self-Promoting Nobody.

nikip5555 said...

Nate, I think I basically agree with your points, though I'd probably put it a little differently -- something like, McCain started out (in the primaries) as a moderate who worked with the other party, believed in good government, and was willing to support policies that helped the "little guy" -- very different from Bush -- this is why he won the nomination. But once he became the nominee, he allowed himself and his campaign to be taken over by the Republican machine, abdicated all the positions that made him different from Bush, showed partisanship and poor judgement in his choice of Palin, which alienated moderates, and basically turned into a generic Republican, which is not who he is (or at least was).

Obama, in contrast, ran a very focused campaign that was a strong reflection of the candidate's identity. If McCain had run as himself, instead of letting the party machine dictate his positions and actions, it could have been a very close race. However, the fact that he allowed himself to be co-opted by the party machine reflects poorly on his leadership ability -- i.e., a McCain presidency would have been co-opted in the same way, which would be a recipe for disaster.

Of course, McCain also blew it on the economy. Choosing to leave Michigan reflected terribly on him - he might as well have run a big ad saying "I HAVE NO SOLUTIONS FOR THE ECONOMY." On the other hand, that was in fact the case, so I guess it was nice of him to admit it.

Sabertooth said...

Nate,

Slice and dice this past POTUS election any way you wish, but to quote Victor Hugo: "On résiste à l'invasion des armées; on ne résiste pas à l'invasion des idées."

The Republicans would probably have lost the 2008 election, even if Obama had run against Ronald Reagan. Translating the quote from above loosely ... nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come.

As some of the responses above might have implied, more than a few people were plain sick and tired of being sick and tired! Some might say Obama was lucky. For me, I'd give him credit for realizing that the sentiment isn't a mirage this time around -- oftentimes, it is.

loner said...

In retrospect it's easy to see that there was no realistic way McCain could win. At the time, I thought the whole inexperienced celebrity thing might give him a shot (if things went really badly for Obama in the debates), but then McCain went out a found an inexperienced celebrity of his own and then it was just a matter of time until the novelty wore off.

In depth post-election analysis waits upon final results and last time I looked nine states (California, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma and Tennessee) still hadn't certified.

dsimon said...

loner: In retrospect it's easy to see that there was no realistic way McCain could win.

That may be true. The problem for me is using that to excuse the way McCain ran his campaign.

McCain's theme was "Country First." But if he selected Palin because he thought that was his only chance to mobilize the base and win, then he wasn't putting country first; he was putting winning first. It's not putting country first to put someone who knows so little so close to the presidency.

It's also not putting country first to make bogus claims based on guilt by association, or to argue that the difference between the "free market" and "socialism" is a top marginal tax rate of 35% versus 39.6%, or to deride a fairly detailed energy policy as "inflate your tires." McCain's turn to the base and his exaggerated if not false claims helped polarize the electorate and will make it harder to govern, which is a loss for the nation.

So even if McCain was going to lose anyway, he could have at least lived up to his own "Country First" rhetoric. That he failed to do so damaged his brand all the more and may have caused him to do worse than he otherwise would have done.

Jack-be-nimble said...

The democrat party has been revealed to be the party that they have always been, the party of corruption.

We need a blog on the merits of Biden as a replacement president. Perhaps after Obama steps down, Biden will appoint McCain as VP for sake of the country. Then O'biden is force to step down. McCain becomes president and then appoints Palin as VP. McCain becomes ill and must step down and lo and behold, President Palin. Beautiful......

zappa2496 said...

You must have not noticed the multiple disparaging remarks about Rep. Jefferson.

"Cash Bricks Jefferson" and "Freezer Cash Guy" (from Tight in Louisiana.)

"corrupt Democratic Congressman William Jefferson" (from Louisiana's 4th, 2008's Final Contested Election)

"William "Cash Bricks" Jefferson is, and will likely continue to be an embarrassment for Democrats." (from Road to 270: Louisiana)

They didn't dig deep into Jefferson story, just constantly reminded people what was already pretty well known. That doesn't seem to be trying to keep Jefferson (who is no conservative, Republican, moderate, independent, or any combination of those words) out of a bad light. If it seems like Republicans were under the spotlight, of course they were. Eight years of the same administration, no matter how successful (and this one wasn't) is going to draw a lot of attention. Add to it the very publicized conviction of Ted Stevens and several charges and indictments of other Republicans, and you get a pretty big spotlight.

Were Democrats immune? Of course not. There was Mr. Money-in-the-Freezer. We had our own publicized Florida sex scandal. Blago has been a thorn for awhile, but the investigation didn't develop a really big break until a couple of hours ago.

Have the owners of the site shown bias? Yes. Have they hidden it? No. Did Nate let it color his numbers? Doesn't seem too likely, as he underestimated the number of EV's Obama won.

Are you forced to come here? No. Is your argument that Obama's admin is already corrupt based on Blago's extortion logical? No, since the evidence indicates that the first candidate that was mentioned was Jarrett, Obama's choice. What happened with that candidate? Neither she nor, according to what evidence we have, Obama would play ball. This led to a Blago tirade. Would you be happy if 538.com did anything less than color Obama as guilty due to this event? Unlikely.

Statler N Waldorf said...

.

Juris said...

@Nate: I disagree with the comment that you should be a news machine and not do analytic post mortems.

Obviously, what we look forward to (and others have mentioned in the last couple of days) is analyses of how well your forecasts did, reinterpretations of the turning points and trends by state and at the national level, and so on. You haven't provided much of that yet.

That includes the "what-if" counterfactual arguments such as the ones your addressing in this article. Thank you for this.

It's not your obligation to address every political issue that comes forward, but of course with something like the Illinois governership and the Senate pick we do look forward to having your assessment -- along with the other types of analysis that you're providing.

Jack-be-nimble said...

Which one of you wants to support the fact that the Obama's got rich, by her appointment to a hospital head for 300K per year.

Corruption!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zappa2496 said...

To Statler:
I'm not advertising the ad as a way to drum up support for that site. I'm mentioning the ad to drum up support for 538.com to drop their advertisements.

To Mule Rider:
I did know about the Ahmandinejad congratulations. The point, that you missed, is that the ad tries to say that Obama wants that support. Or that the support is for Obama's agenda (it is more likely because Obama isn't Bush, too bad they are going to be disappointed.) In fact, the ad links to an article that doesn't even mention Ahmandinejad, instead it tries to link Obama to the men pictured via some link through Ayers. I'm sure the Republicans don't necessarily want the support of certain organizations that endorse it.

zappa2496 said...

Mule Rider said:
"I could care less about Obama on this one...and I'd even lay money down that he is completely innocent of this little scandal."

But he also said earlier in this same thread:
"Rod Blagojevich just arrested on federal corruption charges.

And so it begins. The most corrupt administration to ever infiltrate the White House."

You're contradicting yourself here. At the beginning of the thread, you were already putting this right at Obama's feet. The first post is what I based my "Would you be happy if 538.com did anything less than color Obama as guilty due to this event? Unlikely." comment on. My "straw men" are those that you yourself set-up.

Joel said...

It's not fair to blame McCain for vetoing the advertisement; he made public statements to the effect that he would not attack Obama on Jeremiah Wright and he didn't want to open himself up to a barrage of accusations of hypocrisy.

Where McCain failed is in not establishing the honor narrative earlier (i.e. beginning immediately after he announced that he wouldn't attack on the grounds of Jeremiah Wright). Basically hammer home the point that he's not Bush/Rove and question Obama on political issues (i.e. inexperience).

Of course, the Palin pick fucked his chances of accomplishing that, but he should have been working at it much earlier.

markymark said...

I think if McCain had run an ad like that in August, before the Democratic Convention, it might have resonated long enough to make it a far contest. But I wonder if the 'character matters' line would have rebounded at some point, especially if McCain acted as he did during the financial crisis.

Eli Blake said...

McCain (or any other Republican) wasn't going to win this year.

Arguing about what the Republicans could have done to win this year is a little like arguing what changes the Seattle Seahawks could have made last offseason to go to the Super Bowl this year. It wasn't going to happen.

Statler N Waldorf said...

James Burke was this newscaster in England back when Armstrong first landed on the moon. He tells this story about how it was the middle of the night (GMT) and he was one of the only people in the studio. NASA had implied that Armstrong wouldn't do the moonwalk until the following day sometime, but he wanted to keep the camera feed rolling just in case. He stayed up, and after an hour or so, out comes Armstrong.

Had he gone home and gone to bed, which would have been the sensible thing, he'd have missed it. Had he been wrong and they'd have wasted all the money keeping everything running all night for nothing, he'd have been fired. Lucky for him, neither happened.

Half of life is just being there at the right moment.

No, you can't be there for every breaking story; but some stories are more relevant than others. All sides of this election have been doing post-mortems for a month now. After a certain point, you have to ask if we're wandering around with a bullwhip looking for a dead horse to flog when you see yet another retrospective.

This electoral cycle has lasted 2 years. We're exhausted, fatigued, worn out. We don't need to rehash the primary results in Iowa or Texas anymore. We've heard the replays of the convention speeches, combed over the ads, analyzed the endorsements to death.

There are still three contests left, all recounts, two in the House, one in the Senate. Aside from those, we need to look at what's happening today, not what happened last month or a year ago.

Be here now, please.

Rehashing the contests that have been decided a month or more ago is mental masturbation for the victor and cold comfort for the loser, and neither will gain any more insight from it at this point. It's a space-filling nodule, a tumor that chokes out the present in favor of what might have been but never was or will be. Why substitute reality for fantasy?

To predict the outcomes of two years from now is likewise pointless indulgence in that which very well may not come to pass. Next week, next month, sure, that's close enough that an accurate prediction can be made. Conditions may not be so likely to change. But they certainly will change in ways none of us can imagine two years from now.

In 2006, the two most likely contestants for the Presidential race were Giuliani and Clinton. Neither one was in the general election.

This time, it's even more complicated, because we at least then knew who some of the candidates were going to be. We haven't a clue who most of the challengers will be in 2010. How are we to predict the victor of a contest when we do not know who the competitors are?

Dwelling in the distant future is also a fantasy that detracts from the reality of now. It's like getting too drunk to see straight and then trying to shoot bottles off a fence. If you hit anything, it's blind luck, not skill.

I'm not a fan of games of luck. I'd rather play chess than roulette.

This electoral cycle, this webpage has been tracking the political chess match with uncanny accuracy. I placed all (and I do mean all) of my political bets (by that I mean donations) based on the odds that Nate listed... and every one of them but two won. I used this site because it eschewed wild speculation in favor of logic and reason.


Let's now return to reason, and focus on the present rather than things that never were or may not be.

McCain is what might have been but is not. Blago is. Let's talk about what is.

walt526 said...

Just like Watergate, this is much bigger than it appears. The corruption in Chicago will taint all including Obama. The only reason I wouldn't support the impeachment of Obama is that we would get the incompetant Biden.

It's pretty clear that as soon as the Obama camp saw that Blago was seeking a quid-pro-quo for the senate appointment, that Jarret withdrew herself immediately from consideration. The federal prosecutor Fitzgerald (a Bush appointee) said point-blank that there is no evidence that Obama or anyone close to him was willing to negotiate any sort of favors.

Blago is an idiot who should have just appointed himself if he wanted to maximize his personal gain and then not run for re-election but instead. joined a lobby firm in two years. That would have increased his annual salary (plus a lifetime pension) and would have given himself the clout he needed to land the type of position that he was seeking, for both himself and his wife. Although appointing himself would have been a political embarrassment, he wouldn't have violated any laws or senate ethical standards. Instead he got greedy and tried shopping around (not very subtly) for the best possible deal rather than settling for the scam that he could have easily gotten away with.

zappa2496 said...

Mule Rider,
I can agree with quite a bit of that last post. I have to admit that at one time I dreamed about getting into politics, but getting much past the position of dog catcher takes too much getting involved with some unsavory types. I remember the corruption of the Democratic party in the 1990's. It was no different than the corruption of the Republican party today. There are always corrupt individuals in both parties, but it is seemingly when parties gain too much power for too long that you see the widespread corruption. Maybe this time will be different. Then again, we may never see a single party rise (like the neocons hoped the Republican party would) to permanent majority status. As a Democrat, I don't want that to happen with my party, but I must admit that I want them to be the majority for a least a few years. It's no good for a single party to have large majorities in the government over the long term, no matter the party.

I do disagree with several of your points though. Just because there are corrupt liberals does not mean the entire liberal agenda is corrupt (the same is true of conservatism.) Also, I wouldn't call Obama one of the worst or greatest presidents in history because he hasn't even been president for a single second yet. There is no need to make judgment on his presidency until we actually get into it. You can make judgments on whether or not he was the best candidate for the job, but if you'll wait to demonize what he has done as president, I'll wait to celebrate what he has done as president.

dsimon said...

Folks, stop feeding the trolls. If they don't have any facts, they're not worth arguing with. Not as if they're going to change their minds about anything anyway, regardless of what the facts are.

Statler N Waldorf said...

dsimon, to a degree it's become the trolls feeding the trolls I'm not entirely convinced that half of them aren't MR's sock-puppets.

Ken B said...

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/rod.blagojevich.charged.2.883170.html

Statler N Waldorf said...

Why McCain Lost The Debates

joel said...

Wow it`s going to be a fun 8 years. The trolls are out in full force, they want to impeach Obama before he even takes the oath.
Just because Il. has a dipshit for a governor is not his fault, in fact as soon as he saw the game he was playing Obama withdrew.
I hate to remind you trolls that the last republican IL. governor is doing 6 years in prison, Blago will soon be joining him I assume.
If any president deserved impeachment it was Bush, he caused the death of thousands of people, broke the law on wire tapping and tortured people. Really his crimes were worsE than Nixons.
So far obama comes from a state whose governor is a crook. sorry he will president in 42 days so get used to it.

polls_apart said...

@Mule Rider:
Alive and kicking again, I see. How nice!

Statler N Waldorf said...

Well, they can rattle sabres all they want, but there's nothing to impeach Obama for. He isn't even being accused of a crime,a s far as I can tell. Let the trolls make all the shady inferences they want. Mere conjecture and insinuation does not meet the Constitutional standard of High Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Just ignore them. Remember, a successful troll is only successful as long as it has your attention.

Rupert Murdoch (who owns Fox, The NY Post, and MySpace) is really just a troll with alot of money. And like any other troll, the minute people stop using his 'news' outlets, he becomes weak and flaccid, nothing more than a bitter old man grumbling on about how he misses the days when sodas cost a nickle and syphilis was incurable. So stop tuning in. Close your MySpace account and stop paying for the NY Post. That's one less revenue source for that bitter old man.

At one point, the most successful troll in America was Senator Joseph McCarthy. But look at the end of his career. Once people started ignoring him, what happened to his power? It evaporated.

In a very real sense, we create trolls. They can't exist for very long without our attention. So instead of worry about them or complaining about them, stop feeding them. They'll die just like McCarthy did. Old, alone, abandoned, and irrelevant, with only their own rants to keep them company and chase away the demons of loneliness and spite, along with the ever-present knowledge that they live in hells of their own design.

The trolls cannot hurt Obama. So relax, and watch the drama unfold without getting so caught up in it that you take up a role. Better to sit it out in the balcony, and heckle the dramatists. Why do you think I chose this nickname?

Bob X said...

zappa2496 said "...the SodaHead ads are getting way out of line."
The solution is simple: click on them, multiple times, all day long. Each click costs SodaHead some money, and better yet: the money goes to our buddy Nate!

And please, don't bother arguing with the Mule. There's no point in talking to a mule until you first hit him across the head with a 2-by-4 to get his attention, and alas, we don't know his home address.

wv: graci, a half-Spanish half-Italian thanking you

mirrormirror said...

Going back to the original post, I the main problem for the Republicans attack ads is that Obama gave them very little ammunition.

Obama genuinely comes across as a man of integrity and honour who loves his wife and his country and wants to do his best for it. If the best you can come up with is that he was once on a board with a rehabilitated terrorist and didn't walk out of his church then you might as well give up.

If the case against Obama hadn't been so laughably petty then maybe the mud would have stuck a bit more, but it this case all the negativity just served to make the McCain campaign seem devoid of ideas and McCain himself tarnish his own brand.

If Obama had been Blagojevich on the other hand, I'm sure negative campaigning would have worked :)

Opus 132 said...

Some short random thoughts generated by reading the above posts:

(1) A huge amount of credit for Obama's success should go to Howard Dean.His "50 State Strategy" (which he fought for against other Democratic leaders) laid the foundation for the very successful and vital GOTV machine.

(2) Blagojevich could still appoint Obama's successor.Once he's out on bail,he is the governor again.He could,loudly claiming his innocence,appoint the next Illinois senator as part of his "not guilty" campaign.

(3) There is no such thing as having the necessary experience to be president.The right experince comes only from BEING president.What you do need,however,is the intelligence to be president.

(4) I've always thought McCain feels he is OWED the presidency because of his horrendous 5 years of captivity as a prisoner of war.

(5) I totally agree with Statler about the utter uselessness of guessing,years in advance,what's going to happen in 2010 and 2012.

sanjay said...

1980, 1992, 2008 prove something enduring in the American character. Hope trumps fear and we welcome the "promise of the future" over the "comfort of the past".

At the end it was as simple as that.

coolstar said...

Very interesting discussion. Personally, I see all the talk about the ad McCain DID NOT RUN as just a smokescreen designed to win McCain back some respect. The facts are that he ran an INCREDIBLY dirty and nasty campaign and, as was rightly said here, THAT damaged his brand beyond repair. McCain is simply oblivious to the fact that he turns his "honor" off and on as needed (and always has). The Clintons, unwittingly, did a great job if immunizing Obama against negative ads as they had already used practically all the "good" nasty ideas in the primary season. I'd like to see a comparison of Hilary's negative ads against McCain's, my guess (and memory) is there would be little difference in the overall tone and approach.

Opus 132 said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Opus 132 said...

"just a troll with ALOT of money"

Man,you are stubborn. :^)

walt526 said...

(2) Blagojevich could still appoint Obama's successor.Once he's out on bail,he is the governor again.He could,loudly claiming his innocence,appoint the next Illinois senator as part of his "not guilty" campaign.

The state legislature is scheduling a special election ASAP. If Blago were to appoint someone, it's very likely that the Senate would refuse to seat that appointee in favor of the eventual winner of the special election.

Also, Blago is most likely facing impeachment as even his Democratic allies in Springfield are scrambling to distance themselves from his useless, radioactive ass. I'd be surprised if he survives the week before resigning.

Jim said...

Good point at the end there, Nate. Only Republicans pander to the base or attack their opponents' characters. You're a generally fair-minded fellow, but get a grip. They're politicians. Democrats are no better. At all. Ever. The end. Period.

Robby said...

Jack-be-nimble:

I am predicting that the events of today and all of the reverberations will hand the House of representatives to the GOP in 2010.

I'll add that to my already voluminous "List of Things That Jack-Be-Nimble Has Been Embarrassingly Wrong About."

spleener said...

That's basically what it comes down to- McCain lost because he was (aside from the Wright issue) running the campaign his people told him to run instead of the one he wanted to run. So what we got was a freak hybrid of a McCain campaign and a generic Republican one.

And as someone who likes McCain a lot (I just think the rest of his party fails for the most part, of course I could say the exact same thing about Obama) I think that's a goddamn shame.

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Superb Jon said...

Catholics destroyed American industry: Palmisano, Grasso, Damato, Langone, Dioguardi, Ranieri. The subprime construction mobsters had hookers deliver the mortgages to the banks. McCain's Keeting started it all. They find American cars too advanced for them to use or their mechanics to fix. Their slovenly, anti-intellectual work ethic produces vacuous, casuistrous blather. Ellis Island Popeholes brought in FDR. Carolignian Brzezinski spawned Zia al Haq, Khomeini, and bin Laden - breaks up superpowers via Aztlan and Kosovo as per Joel Garreau's Nine Nations. Brzezinski, Buckley and Buchanan winked anti-Semitic votes for Obama, delivered USA to Pope's feudal basket of Bamana Republics. Michael Pfleger and Joe Biden prove Obama is the Pope's boy. Talal got Pontifical medal as Fatima mandates Catholic-Muslim union against Jews (Francis Johnson, Great Sign, 1979, p. 126), Catholic Roger Taney wrote Dred Scott decision. John Wilkes Booth, Tammany Hall and Joe McCarthy were Catholics. Now Catholic majority Supreme Court. NYC top drop outs: Hispanic 32%, Black 25%, Italian 20%. NYC top illegals: Ecuadorean, Italian, Polish. Ate glis-glis but blamed plague on others, now lettuce coli. Their bigotry most encouraged terror yet they reap most security funds. Rabbi circumcizes lower, Pope upper brain. Tort explosion by glib casuistry. Bazelya 1992 case proves PLO-IRA-KLA links.

egapre said...

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平平 said...

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酒店上班請找艾葳 said...

艾葳酒店經紀公司提供專業的酒店經紀, 飯局小姐,領檯人員,領台,傳播妹,或者想要到台北酒店林森北路酒店,私人招待所,或者八大行業酒店PT,酒店公關,酒店兼職,想去酒店上班, 日式酒店,制服酒店,ktv酒店,禮服店,整天穿得水水漂漂的禮服酒店,鋼琴酒吧酒店領檯,酒店小姐,公關小姐??,還是想去制服店上班小姐,水水們如果想要擁有打工工作、晚上兼差工作兼差打工假日兼職兼職工作學生兼差兼差打工兼差日領工作晚上兼差工作酒店工作酒店上班酒店打工兼職兼差兼差工作酒店上班等,想了解酒店相關工作特種行業內容,想找打工假日兼職兼差打工、或晚班兼職想擁有快速賺錢又有保障的工作嗎???又可以現領請找專業又有保障的艾葳酒店經紀公司!

艾葳酒店經紀是合法的公司工作環境高雅時尚,無業績壓力,無脫秀無喝酒壓力,高層次會員制客源,工作輕鬆,可日領現領
一般的酒店經紀只會在水水們第一次上班和領薪水時出現而已,對水水們的上班安全一點保障都沒有!艾葳酒店經紀公司的水水們上班時全程媽咪作陪,不需擔心!只提供最優質的酒店打工,酒店上班,酒店打工環境、上班條件給水水們。

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請加入我們艾葳酒店經紀公司工作單純輕鬆”高時薪”又可日領徵想要當傳播妹,上班小姐,酒店兼差,酒店兼職,歡迎學生打工,!!!
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