With in excess of 90 percent of Minnesota's votes now having been recounted, our statistical models now show Norm Coleman as the favorite to retain his senate seat, although with a high degree of uncertainty and without accounting the effects of potential rejected absentee ballots.
The basic process behind our projections is as follows: using precinct-level returns available from the Minnesota Secretary of State, we use regression analysis attempt to predict the number of ballots that a candidate has gained or lost in a given precinct based on the number of challenges issued by he and his opponent, and his share of the vote in the pre-recount stage of the process. Then, we set the number of challenges to zero in the regression equation, which ideally represents the state that occurs once all ballot challenges have been considered by the state's canvassing board later this month.
I am now running eight separate versions of the model based on various permutations of assumptions that one can make about how to build the model. Specifically (and feel free to skip this description if you don't care about the technicalities):'Gross' models evaluate each candidate's results individually, e.g. how much Franken gains in the absolute count. 'Net' models evaluate how much Franken gains relative to Coleman, without worrying about the absolute count. 'Simple' models include a maximum of three variables (plus a constant term): Franken's share of the two-way vote in that precinct, the frequency of challenges initiated by Coleman, and the frequency of challenges initiated by Franken. 'Complex' models account for two-way and three-way interactions (where statistically significant) between these independent variables. The regression is weighted either based on the number of votes tabulated in that precinct ('Straight'), or based on the square root of the number of votes in that precinct ('Root'). In all models, variables are dropped if not statistically significant at the 95 percent certainty level.
The reason I'm including these different versions is because the models are not especially precise, and so we want to get some sense for how robust they are. The margins of error on the models are high -- at least +/- 200 votes, and sometimes more depending on the complexity of the model.
Here are the results:Type Depth Weight Franken Coleman Change Result
All eight versions of the model show Franken gaining significant ground in the recount, from a net of 80 votes to a net of 218. Since Coleman led by 215 votes in the state's certified, pre-recount tally, however, only one of the eight models now shows Franken gaining enough votes to overtake Coleman, and then only by 3 ballots.
Gross Simple Straight +581 +454 F +127 C +88
Gross Simple Root +639 +544 F +95 C +120
Gross Complex Straight +545 +327 F +218 F +3
Gross Complex Root +584 +447 F +107 C +108
Net Simple Straight -- -- F +128 C +87
Net Simple Root -- -- F +80 C +135
Net Complex Straight -- -- F +209 C +6
Net Complex Root -- -- F +125 C +90
This should not be interpreted to mean, however, that Franken only has a 1 in 8 chance of defeating Coleman. Given the high degrees of uncertainty and ambiguity implied by the models, they would suggest that Franken has roughly speaking somewhere between a 25% chance and a 50% chance of overtaking Coleman depending on which model is selected.
In addition, the models do not consider the potential impact of rejected absentee ballots, which the Franken campaign is still attempting to get counted. If Franken is able to get such ballots counted -- and there is a strong chance that he will -- they will likely be worth a net of somewhere between 25 and 100 votes to him. In this eventuality, the race should probably be considered a toss-up.
UPDATE: Since several people have asked, the Daily Kos diary suggesting that Franken is "leading" the recount is grossly misleading. In the most literal sense, Franken has indeed won the plurality of ballots counted so far in the re-count -- but he also won a plurality of ballots from those same precincts on Election Day, because they tended to come from slightly bluer precincts than the state as a whole. As the outstanding (mostly red-leaning) precincts are counted again, Coleman will gain ground and almost certainly overtake Franken in the Secretary of State's total; the question then is what will become of all the challenged ballots, which is what the statistical model is trying to address.
12.02.2008
Statistical Models Now Show Coleman as Slight Favorite
by Nate Silver @ 1:58 PM
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70 comments
Nate, great post as always.
Your post has a typo about "Franken gaining enough votes to overtake Franken".
Nate, you are a freaking jackass. You're looking foolish now with your earlier prediction that Franken would win by 27 votes.
Your partisanship blinds you, you ass pimple. You're letting your emotions of who you want to win cloud your judgement and get in the way of making sound, unbiased analysis.
Too bad you're too much of a fear-mongering, liberal prick to get it. I'm still waiting for an answer to my challenge, but you are a coward. You're too scared to even play me in poker. What a pathetic little twink you are!
Grow a pair, you douchebag.
So the question on my mind is, what happens if the result of the recount is a tie?
There is a recommended diary up on Daily Kos that links to the MN Secretary of State site that shows Franken leading??
MN-Sen: Franken LEADS, yo!
US Senate Recout Data
What am I missing here?
@Andy Ternay
Not to point out the obvious but....
Franken may be leading now, but you have to look at the remaining precincts left to count. Chances are they come from heavily Republican areas. Hence this prediction.
Mule Rider: Your vitriol is nauseating.
Thanks for the update, Nate.
Much appreciated.
This race has been brutal and anxiety-provoking, to say the least.
My question:
Why do you think the rejected absentee ballot question will be decided in Franken's favor?
Righteous,
Really? Huh? Because all of the far-left hate and fear-mongering that was spewed on this blog through the election season, with some of it still carrying forward to today is about as sickening or "nauseating" as it gets.
You critique me for calling people "freaking jackasses", "ass pimples", or "douchebags" yet you turn a blind eye to all of the hatred and bigotry towards people of a different political ilk than far left radicals?!
Puh-lease!! Shut your f***ing disgusting hypocritical mouth up and go beat off or something.
Asshole!
Mule Rider
You headed for the hills when your guy started going up in flames in the Presidential election. Why are you back now being more obnoxious than ever. Go post comments on Rush Limbaugh's site.
Righteous, please don't feed the troll.
Since most of these scenarios have a winner by 100 or so votes...it appears there is a small, but still statistically possible, chance of an EXACT tie?
What happens in such a scenario? I know in some random Vegas town, they drew cards and the high card won, but that was for something like county dog-catcher and it was a 500 person town.
Nate- These models are giving huge error bars and converging very slowly because you have not utilized the most pertinent data.
I showed, by using the SOS hand audit of 206 precincts, that a Coleman win of about 55 (with error bars in the 100 or 200 range) was expected. That result was about a week ago. After the releases from the Franken camp of the actual election judge counts (ignoring challenges) of first C +84 then C+ 73, it's become clear that a C win of about 55 is in fact where this stage is heading. The error bars are much smaller than you give, for the obvious reason that this uses more info.
As for possible absentee changes, let's hope. The SOS says there may be 500-1000 such countable ballots. On them we're back to square one, guessing about prior odds for D and R fixable voter errors.
Woot!!
I can feel it coursing through my viens now, that sweet taste of smpirical evidence to show me exactly what all the numbers mean.
I can think clearly again.
Thanks Nate, I knew you'd come through in a pinch.
Now as promised no more request for data this week, but if you feel so inclined to do so, I won't complain about it :)
You headed for the hills when your guy started going up in flames in the Presidential election.
That's funny. I'm wondering who "my guy" was in retrospect....seeing how I openly lobbied for NO ONE, and I voted for NO ONE.
Hmmm. Remind me again who "my guy" was. And quit using spin and lies that come from baseless assumptions.
A knock against Barack Obama is in no way an endorsement or blessing for McCain, Bush, Republicans, or anyone of the like.
wv: burync - what the terrorist are going to do when Obama rolls over and let's them do what they want unchecked.
Of course, a byzantine conspiracy in either campaign could by now be cooking Nate's numbers for him. Because the basic fact is that all the new data is basically crap, so updating the model with the new data tells us nothing except how stable/unstable the model is.
The magic 8-ball says: ask again later.
Bob, see what happens when you feed the troll?
That Kos diary is irresponsible BS, and whoever wrote it should be ashamed.
It's an illusion, a product of the order the ballots are recounted, nothing more.
Another example of "coverage" of the recount obsuring rather than producing clarity.
Your post is great, but you should probably fix "Franken only has a 1 in 8 chance of defeating Franken"
In MN an exact tie is setled by a coin toss. By law. How awesome is that?
Once again, Nate Silver treats us to a startling conclusion: the race is a tossup! Who would have thunk it? Of course, not before tweaking things so his models coincide with the most probable results, which were pretty obvious soon after Nov. 4. Wouldn't want to disappoint the fanboys would we? For electoral projections done REALLY right, visit the Princeton Electoral Consortium at http://election.princeton.edu/. You can also read a hilarious sendup of these MN recount "models"
there.
@coolstar
You show a profound lack of understanding of statistics. In a race where millions of votes were cast, and a possible margin in the double digits, it is impossible to nail down precisely and accurately what the final tally will be. Why you treat this as not wanting to "disappoint the fanboys" is beyond me.
Michael,
The audit data is not relevant because they are ONLY looking at instances of machine error in the audit, whereas in the recount, they are looking both at machine error and voter error. Most of the things that we'd classify as undervotes and overvotes are considered instances of voter error and are explicitly NOT designed to be picked up by the audit.
Mule humper
Wow, you’ve sunk to an all time new low haven’t you!! But let’s talk about some facts here. First of all, the verdict is still out on the MN recount, so whether Nate said Franken would win by 27 or lose by a million doesn’t even matter yet. Second, take a look at the actual vote numbers versus the final predictions on this site for the presidential election and you’ll notice they are practically identical. The only state that’s different is Indiana, and it was a close one. And the popular vote is nearly identical as well. Yes he supported Obama, but that is irrelevant. In a recount you aren’t making predictions based on how people said they would vote in the polls. You’re making predictions based on the validity of votes that people already cast. You’re a complete tool if you can’t recognize that. You keep coming on here and whining about how you don’t like what you read, well the solution is simple. DON’T COME ON HERE! GO FIND YOURSELF A POLITICAL SITE MEANT FOR REPUBLICANS WHO LIKE TO CLAIM THEY ARE INDEPENDENTS. MAYBE BILL O’REILLY HAS SUCH A SITE. GOODBYE AND GOOD DAY.
Does today’s news change anything? Franken’s camp claims to have narrowed the margin down to 50 yesterday (from 73), and Maplewood, a town Franken carried has found about 200 ballots that were never counted.
TPMElectioncentral.com just posted good news for Franken:
1) They found 200 ballots previously uncounted in a Franken leaning town.
2) Franken thinks they are under 50 vote lead, an improvement of 24 in one day.
3) The MN SOS is sorting rejected absentee ballots into "reason for rejection" piles, so that the arbitrarily denied ballots can be identified.
Statler N Waldorf said:
And then there's me, probably the most pathetic of them all, because I yell at both the trolls and the people who yell at the trolls. We,re not really accomplishing much, but we're feeding the beast as hurriedly as we can.
Not to mention you apparently think it is an accomplishment to post “First”. That is pathetic.
Perhaps OT, about the Ohio 15th CD race, from the Columbus Dispatch:
Tuesday, December 2, 2008 7:19 AM
The Columbus Dispatch
DispatchPolitics
The justices of the Ohio Supreme Court received 374 pages of arguments and evidence from the parties yesterday in a case that will determine whether the Franklin County Board of Elections tosses about 1,000 provisional ballots cast in the Nov. 4 election that contain flaws such as a lack of a voter signature.
The case was brought by two local voters who support state Sen. Steve Stivers, a Republican locked in a neck-and-neck race for Congress against Democratic Franklin County Commissioner Mary Jo Kilroy.
Attorneys for the voters filed their arguments with the Supreme Court, as did the Franklin County Board of Elections, Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, the Ohio Democratic Party and the ACLU of Ohio.
The voters, Kyle Fannin and Dana Skaggs, say the flawed provisional ballots should not count because they don't comply with state laws designed to prevent election fraud.
All of the other parties in the case say the disputed ballots should be counted rather than dismissed for "hypertechnical" reasons.
The justices have not indicated when they plan to rule.
Neither Kilroy nor Stivers, who leads by 594 votes in the latest tally, has declared victory.
-- James Nash jnash@dispatch.com
Perhaps, instead of posting 'First'.. we could agree to post 'Do not respond to trolls in this thread.' as the initial comment.
It would at least serve a purpose, then.
Nate- I think you're wrong. MN statute provides that the audit is to be done as nearly as possible just like a hand recount. The specific notes include many instances of countable votes without machine error. There are separate columns for new total vote and for error attributable to machines. In the one instance where a local official left an uncounted vote (not due to machine) out of the total, the SOS fixed it. (It was a Coleman vote, left off by an R official, included by the DFL SOS- this is MN, not IL.)
At any rate, although that udit provided an early and unbiased estimate similar to what you're getting now, the Elias numbers have much smaller error bars on them currently.
any math people care to explain what the total # of votes looks to be?
someone on theuptake thinks it could be coleman win by some 13,000 votes. that would be too funny! especially since on nov 4 it was 215.
i keep smelling a rat somewhere in MN.
Some agreement in reducing the number of challenged ballots is imminent.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/35329829.html
Ramsey County found 171 ballots that weren't counted on election night.
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/12/02/foundballots/?refid=0
coolstar-
For a simpler model and more biased commentary visit the Princeton Election Consortium. Get your bias straight from the people who are the most biased - the professors who believe that "peer review" is something more than a way to get your friends papers published, and your enemies trashed.
I'm a bit annoyed with the coverage I've read so far about the previously uncounted ballots from Maplewood's 6th precinct. As far as I can tell, election officials have discovered that they failed to run some of the ballots they've had since election day through a working optical scan machine after one of the machines they were using broke down. If that's correct, no ballots were "found", yet, because much of the coverage has used that word, we're no doubt going to be treated to a torrent of right wing ranting claiming that left-leaning election officials have manufactured ballots to put Franken over the top no matter how watertight the evidence that the ballots in question were validly cast, either absentee or on election day, and have been properly stored since may be. Not that avoiding the word "found" would have stopped that entirely but using it can't help. Sad.
Gee, Mule Rider, you don't seem to know what abuse is.
See, the problem is that you're a shit-sucking fucktard. Understand?
"Mule Rider":
1) If you're really an Indy, how come I never hear any substantive criticism of any Republicans (aside, perhaps, for those you feel are RINOs) from you? (Then again, I've yet to hear any substantive criticism at all from you.
2) I'm tempted to collect up all your comments here and put them on display so everyone can see the conservative mindset in full bloom. You have absolutely no idea how silly you look, and as a leftie, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Franken lawyers say he will win:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/02/franken-lawyer-we-are-goi_n_147791.html
What do you think about this?
Jon:
If not "found" then what? The GOP will scream fraud on previously uncounted ballots no matter whether it's "found" "identified" "located" or "revealed"
Jon: Yeah. They're doing everything they can to explain away the missing-ballots issue. You'd think that when some missing ballots were found, thus proving that the missing ballots aren't all just technical glitches in the computer count, that the press might admit it.
phoenixwoman,
Be my guest. Go back and go through every single comment I've ever written. I think you'd be surprised...albeit a little offended at some of the language, but surprised nonetheless that I don't resort to nitpicking along ideological or partisan lines.
Be sure you sift through the sock-puppeted posts and only find what I really said.
Robby said...
Eric
I don't know about statistics, but if Florida beats the #1 team in the nation on a neutral field, they deserve to be ranked no lower than second, and they will be.
Furthermore, since human voters have a lot to say in the BCS, you'll almost certainly see the SEC champion ranked no lower than #2 if for no other reason than voters not wanting an intra-conference national championship game.
A UT-OU rematch in the national championship game went out the window this weekend when Florida and Alabama took care of business in their respective rivalry games. If you're a UT fan, you're breaking out your black and gold face paint this Saturday.
If Florida beats Alabama that will serve as an equal to Texas beating Oklahoma and they'll cancel each other out. The resto f the schedule are similar in strength, Texas' slightly more difficult. Florida's one loss to unranked 8-4 Ole Miss at home. Texas' one loss to #8 11-1 Texas Tech on the Road. That's the argument for Texas being ranked ahead of Florida even with a Florida victory this weekend. I don't believe for a second that that's how the human polls will play out, but the computers will continue to have Texas ahead for good reason. If the voters are fair to Texas, they should be ranked 3rd or possibly 2nd or 4th by some voters. Florida either 1st or 2nd. The computers will continue to have Texas way ahead of Florida and though it only counts 1/3, it might be enough to keep them ahead of Florida. I want Nate to do analysis because he could figure out the likelihood. I'm a stats guy, but it's hard to figure. Texas' current computer average is 2.5 to Florida's 5.4. If the computer averages finish at say Texas 2.3 to Florida's 4.9, Florida will have to finish more than 1.3 places ahead on average of Texas in the polls. If Oklahoma blows out Missouri, Florida will split #1 votes with them. It's possible that Florida's ranking could be 1.6 and Texas' 2.9. Most likely scenario in that case is Texas gets more 4th and 5th place votes than 1st or 2nd and has a poll average over 3, but well have to see. It's definitely a possibility. I'm a stats/math guy FYI.
Nate's work is generally brilliant and wonderful. But that doesn't mean his application of statistics are always perfect. The terms "confidence interval" and "statistical significance" aren't exactly correct, because the data being examined isn't a randomly chosen sample of a larger universe, nor can it be assumed the error terms are statistically independent of one another.
For one thing, some of the data has actually been COUNTED, and therefor doesn't need to be ESTIMATED. This has the effect of shrinking the variance of the estimate of the final result. Another way to say this is that the "sampling fraction" is substantially larger than zero.
But on the other hand - and far more important - there is substantial covariance among the observations, so the assumptions needed for linear regression are not met. That is, if one precinct in a county has a given error, it is more likely the same error will crop up nearby, either because the ballots were printed similarly, the tabulating machines had similar characteristics, or the people conducting the initial count were the same. Regression analysis is still a useful way to look at the data, as long as we don't place any trust in the estimates of variance or confidence intervals. We've seen clear evidence of clustering of errors.
Overall, Nate's work is very, very impressive, but a little skepticism wouldn't hurt.
TheUptake.org story on the Maplewood find, while this STrib story adds that Franken netted 37 votes from them. Caveat: the total ballots are now (said to be) 31 greater than the # of voter signatures taken at the precinct.
If we accept 73 as the state of the race coming in to today---which is close to the average margin of Nate's 8 models, if that means everything---then the margin is halved and is definitely under 50. Which is to say, projections like these need to be taken with a chunk of salt because they are subject to events that are chunky, as well as having large error bars even under fine-grained assumptions.
Also to be noted: Several stories/blog-pieces muddy the clarity that the "73" figure from the Franken campaign is a report of what the gap would be if all challenges were denied, as opposed to their contention of what the margin should be on expected judgments. The difference is important, because some judgments that are affirmed by MNLatteLiberal, for example, are not so clear to others. If the 73 is a "report", then one can still expect Franken to net 10-20 on the greater number of reasonable undervote challenges he would then have made. And if the 37 swing stands up, that would push the margin under 25---already bringing us within the realm of reasonable disagreement on the "599" ballots posted by the STrib alone.
Just to clarify the issue that could get Franken out of that "within 25" morass---or if the "73" is a contention not a report, bring him into it---one should say that he is only trying to have improperly rejected absentee ballots counted, is is clear both from Nate's linked item and from his communications director Andy Barr's statements yesterday. And as also reported by TheUptake, an e-mail went out from SoS yesterday instructing counties to review reasons why absentee ballots were rejected and sort them into those "five piles".
Off Topic But Pertinent
T U E S D A Y DEC 02 POSTS
Wind Turbine That Might Cut Costs In Half
Will Barack Think Twice About Afghanistan?
Neil Young, The Star of Bethlehem and Us
http://stephencrose.wordpress.com/
Earlier posts in descending order on the same page:
Five Good Things Barack Said Today
Why Barack Obama Should Bail Out Detroit
Is The Agonist Correct? Will Barack’s Foreign Policy Trump Progress?
Microcredit Via Kiva — An Option for The Obama Movement?
Huffington Post Page
Nate-- any numbers on the GA run-off yet? I understand that some things might get a little shaken up due to some apparent voter fraud:
http://pinkhairpundit.blogspot.com/2008/12/reuters-suspicion-of-voter-fraud-in-ga.html
The poster above who called Mule Rider "practically legendary" couldn't have been more spot on.
Love him or hate him, he is by far the most renown poster on this site.
There are several of us who think he is a brilliant mind and an outspoken voice for a silent caucus of concerned citizens. He is respected and admired by many - of which I am one - although he is genuinely loathed by many more.
Nate, we implore you to give Mule Rider more of a voice than he already has on this site. You want credibility? Add a dissenting voice such as Mule Rider to the team. Take him up on his challenges. You don't have to put him on your "team" per se and turn this into an ugly internet version of Hannity and Colmes, but Mule Rider is awesome and deserves more of a voice!
magster:
We both seem to agree that "previously uncounted" works perfectly well. I agree and, in fact, alluded to the inevitability of some screams of fraud. I just think it would be nice if news organizations didn't use language that suggests the ballots in question weren't in the proper place for ballots from that precinct to be all along but were discovered elsewhere, which obviously would raise suspicions.
I'd also have no beef with "identified", another of your suggested possibilities.
Funny how it becomes painfully obvious when Mule Rider is off his meds; he becomes profane and insulting. What's sad is that he's off his meds the majority of the time. Sad and potentially dangerous. . .
Dirty Harry said...
There are several of us who think he is a brilliant mind.."
Speak for yourself.
To Brad:
the odds are VERY, VERY high that I know WAY more about statistics than oh, say, you (since my career depends on that knowledge)! Way to trash academics and the process that has helped to make the U.S. STILL the place to go to grad school in the sciences. You apparently haven't read the very valid criticisms of Nate's MN "models: at PEC, so I can understand your ignorance. If you actually want to LEARN something about statistics, first READ, and then LISTEN to people who both USE statistics and who TEACH that knowledge. The people at PEC (including commentators) are among those who actually TAUGHT Nate Silver at Princeton! It's become pretty apparent that Nate Silver has taught the majority of his readers here exactly NOTHING, which is very sad, as this is a wonderful teaching opportunity.
At least criticisms from PEC and from readers like me have FINALLY forced Silver to at least publish something about the errors in his models.......(though still not on his presidential projections).
Congratulations on becoming a fanboy, by the way, I'm sure the t-shirt is in the mail.
Umm.... You missed the point altogether.
Listen, for a moment Sanjay Malakar was legendary. Not because he could sing well or because anyone thought he was an important voice, but because he took up alot of mental real estate. MR is legendary in the same way that Corey Feldman is legendary.
And, you know, if he were in on the joke, I'd kind of like to see him have his own featured spot, where he could rant mindlessly and then all the people who respond to him count rant back at him. I don't think I'd ever read that portion of the blog, but if it keeps him and his audience from posting in the rest of the blog, then hey, we all win. Plus, it could serve as an interesting social experiment, kind of like Joe the Plumber was, but more self-aware.
The only troll worthy of comment and/or response was He. Those postings were truly deserving of the word 'brilliant'.
The rest just cut and paste from Freepville, or type the same repetitive insults regardless of the topic.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the point of the analysis is if you have to keep changing it every day or so based on the changing results. Its value is supposed to come from predictive ability and the truth is, the election in Minnesota is truly TOO CLOSE TO CALL.
The 37-vote swing is legit: the Star Tribune updated their story with an explanation for the temporary 31-ballot gap:
"Once those were counted, election officials found that there appeared to be 31 more ballots cast than the number of voters who signed in or voted by absentee ballot at Maplewood's Sixth Precinct, at the Hazelwood Fire Station. Shortly after, they said the explanation was that registration cards accompanying absentee ballots hadn't been recorded, as they should have been; when they were recorded, the number of voters and ballots matched."
This find does not greatly disturb the regression parameters in Nate's models---just the one precinct of 3400+ gets adjusted. So it acts like "found money" on top: you just add 37 to Franken's net in Nate's table, getting a new Result column of:
Gross Simple Straight: C +51
Gross Simple Radical: C +83
Gross Complex Straight: F +40
Gross Complex Radical: C +71
Netnik Simple Straight: C +50
Netnik Simple Radical: C +98
Netnik Complex Straight: F +31
Netnik Complex Radical: C +53.
No margin over 100. The two Franken win scenarios cover Nate's original "27" projection---still with huge error bars and gobs of "chunky"! Hard to tell which of the 8 monikers describes Franken best :-).
It must really drive Mule Fucker crazy when Nate comes into comments and totally ignores him. He's the useful idiot. Keeps people coming to the site yet to argue with him, yet doesn't rate even the tiniest acknowledgement. That's why he's getting progressively more angry and profane at Nate.
Oh, well, there's always his Xanax and Lithium to get him through the day.
Mule Rider said...
Be sure you sift through the sock-puppeted posts and only find what I really said.
December 2, 2008 2:25 PM
Oh, that won't be too hard. I presume, for example, that you really did claim today that anti-Obama sites were being suppressed, which you insinuated was the work of Obama -- and then fail to respond when asked for proof (which seems to be a sure-fire way to make you exit a thread).
So please, Mule Rider: Tell us which anti-Obama sites are being suppressed. C'mon, don't be shy!
Ron Howard & Barack Obama
phoenixwoman,
I went to the site above and got this funny error and it caused my browser to abort. Looking through about 5 or 6 more articles, it happened two more times. My browser getting locked out, that is, with errors occuring.
It may have been just coincidence but it seemed fishy. That's why I made the crack about him suppressing information and limiting freedom.
I won't hide from what I said. I left the other thread and never saw the posts in response to my original one.
The 37 new F+ margin is really important. With the last no-contest count (C +73) it would leave C+36. Simple extrapolation of the rate of F gains as the last 11% are counted (not including the Eagles in the extrapolation) would leave us near C +22.
That's not a win for F but it's within range of statistical uncertainties in
1. The occasional challenges which will be accepted
and
2. The possible swings from the few valid absentees.
On the other hand, if F loses by < 23, I'll feel pretty sure that me personal failure to double-max-out actually cost a senate seat. Oh shit.
**Franken gains from uncounted Ramsey ballots**
ST. PAUL -- Democrat Al Franken has gained 37 votes on Republican Sen. Norm Coleman in the U.S. Senate recount after Ramsey County found 171 ballots that weren't counted on election night. Ramsey County elections chief Joe Mansky says the ballots were in a machine that broke down early on Election Day. The machine was replaced, but the ballots in question weren't fed through again. Mansky says the ballots were never lost, just not counted the first time through. He says they have been secure all along. Franken gained 91 votes from the crop of ballots, and Coleman gained 54. Mansky says none of the ballots have the distinguishing marks that are drawing challenges from the two campaigns. Fritz Knaak, an attorney for Coleman, says the campaign sent a lawyer to look into the situation. He says they'll likely accept Mansky's explanation as long as a tabulation of the number of people who voted turns out to be 171 more than the number of votes counted.
(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=530898&catid=2
The posters that have achieved the level of maturity required to not respond to a troll would not need such a post.
Slater, I’m guessing you haven’t reached that maturity level because I’ve seen you feed the trolls on many occasions! Plus you gave us a FIRST! on this very thread!
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^^ very nice
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艾葳酒店經紀是合法的公司工作環境高雅時尚,無業績壓力,無脫秀無喝酒壓力,高層次會員制客源,工作輕鬆,可日領、現領。
一般的酒店經紀只會在水水們第一次上班和領薪水時出現而已,對水水們的上班安全一點保障都沒有!艾葳酒店經紀公司的水水們上班時全程媽咪作陪,不需擔心!只提供最優質的酒店打工,酒店上班,酒店打工環境、上班條件給水水們。
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