Minnesota's State Canvassing Board meets this morning at 9:30am Central time to decide appropriate action on rejected absentee ballots.
The Uptake will begin live streaming the meeting at 9:30, and we'll be following along.
In a recount season filled with PR maneuverings on both sides aimed at claiming the high ground in the ultimate outcome, this video released by the Franken campaign is one of the more effective messages. What can seem to the general public like background noise and bickering over numbers is helped by a human, emotional face.
Here, the video cleverly begins with simple textual framing: "every vote should be counted fairly" and "they did nothing wrong/someone else's mistake." The video features compelling and genuine voters; these may (or may not) be Franken partisans, but they seem relatable and sincere, and most importantly motivated by genuine dismay at the prospect of not having their votes counted. You win a public relations move like this when you get a viewer picturing his or her own vote arbitrarily discounted, and you do that by making the viewer realize that the folks sharing their stories didn't commit bad voting behavior.
Those seeking to make sure the votes aren't counted (in this case, Norm Coleman's camp) are best served when the public perceives the rejected absentee ballots as the fault of the individual voters who made silly mistakes or in some way created their own misfortune by failing to follow easily followed procedures. Everyone remembers the way that West Palm Beach voters were mocked in Florida 2000. When the public perceives that the voters are to blame for their votes being recorded wrongly, a key messaging battle has been won for election outcome legitimacy. That is not the case here. Although Coleman would win a PR victory for somehow getting people to believe that not counting these votes is just "punishment" for bad voting behavior, his camp has been effective in pushing that message.
In part because the Franken video is so effective, Coleman's spokesperson has unsurprisingly reacted to the video by labeling it "a new low" even though not one person in the video says the words "Coleman" or "Franken." The loud dissents from the Coleman camp were to be expected in a situation where their opponents have managed to release effective messaging on this key point of dispute before the Canvassing Board today.
12.12.2008
Minnesota State Canvassing Board Meets
@ 10:00 AM
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Based on the intrasigence of the Rethuglicans in the Senate whose states subsidize foreign automakers, this extra Democratic vote takes on extra importance.
I wonder how Republicans justify to themselves that they're always on the side of impeding as many people to vote as possible as easily as possible.
It's an interesting tactic, although I have to say I have never thought of the "right to have your vote counted" as a personal right. That is, it is in the interests of the people as a whole to make sure that the election outcome reflects the will of the electorate. But I've never thought of the failure to count a vote as a personal affront.
And it matters which way you think of it (which is, of course, why Franken is framing it this way). If the interest is one belonging to the people as a whole, then the people can balance that interest against the need for finality, or the need for clear rules for determination, etc., etc., and reasonably require certain procedures even if that means individual voters might find their votes erroneously rejected. If it's a matter of personal right, however, that balancing becomes questionable.
It's effective framing, and I give Franken credit for it. But I'm reasonably certain that no court would look at it that way legally.
Christopher: that's a great observation. I can't recall when I last heard the GOP standing forward in favor of equal voting rights or expanding the franchise.
The lore is that in the early 1990s Motor-Voter (registration to vote when you get your drivers license) worked against the GOP. That may or may not be true but is it wrong to make registration easier?
The lore is that there are all kinds of illegal/ineligible voters on the rolls who actually vote if not challenged. Since the Help American Vote Act (HAVA) was passed in 2002 many states have established centralized voting registration records (a good idea in principle, but in practice unevenly achieved). But evidence of ineligible voters actually voting or even trying to vote -- and that this somehow favors the Democrats? Slim and none.
The GOP has openly promoted tough "Voter ID" laws. This isn't bad in itself. But they prefer to do this in "gotcha" purges of voter lists, insistence on perfect records/name matching, placing real costs for many long-time voters to "prove" their identity, and so forth.
When is the last time you ever heard of Democrats being in favor of vote suppression? Maybe 1965 -- when the Voting Rights Act was passed, and subsequently when it was actually enforced. It has been the GOP that has continued the fight against full voting rights.
The video was pretty sappy and obnoxious, though. I don't like politicians who try to go for the emotions like that. It's classic politics, cheap and manipulative. The difference here is that Franken is probably crying along with the people in his video, rather than cackling about all the suckers he's going to fool with it. In a sense, I almost think that's worse. As horrible as Coleman may be, I hope Franken loses.
Very weird things can happen to perfectly legal voters. My Mom tried to vote absentee this year, but had her ballot rejected because her signature did not match the one on file. It turns out that the signature on file was 35 years old, and her signature had changed since that time. If we are to be such sticklers for information matching perfectly, then we need to have straightforward procedures for making sure that voter data is up to date.
Coleman and his camp are so utterly classless, fighting to exclude legitimate votes that were not counted only because of bureaucratic mistakes.
Excellent video. Extremely effective for the vast majority of the population that is not emotionally frigid.
Re: the eficacy of messaging, check out any given story on the Star Tribune (Minneapolis' newspaper) website, and look at the user comments. Every story about the recount ends up with at LEAST 100 comments, and most of them fall into a few categories:
1) If you don't know how to vote, your vote shouldn't count.
2) Calling Franken a disparaging name such as "Freaky Franken"
3) Accusing Al Franken of trying to steal the election
4) People who bring up ACORN
5) People who repeat the lie about ballots being found in the trunk of someone's car
6) People claiming that if a vote wasn't counted the first time, it can't be counted in the recount, because that's ballot box stuffing (regardless of the reason it wasn't counted)
7) People telling Al Franken to go back to New York and take Hillary's Senate Seat
8) People saying Franken should move to Illinois and buy that seat
9) People claiming that Coleman has already won several times now and Franken is just wasting taxpayer money
10) People calling Franken a vulgar commedian who jokes about rape and doesn't pay his taxes
11) People who claim George Soros is helping Franken buy the election
12) People who couldn't spell to save their lives
13) People who call everyone who doesn't agree with them disparaging names
14) An almost infinitessimally small number of people who say things like "let the state canvassing board and do it's job of recounting as required by Minnesota law", or "let's actually try to determine the will of the voters", or "every validly cast ballot should be counted. I'm one of maybe half a dozen or people who posts in this category, the rest have really bought Norm's message hook, line and sinker and will fight to disenfranchise anyone who doesn't agree with them, logic be damned.
It's quite alarming actually. And boy, did this video hit a nerve. They did NOT see it the same way Sean did. They saw this as a pathetic attempt to steal the election. Almost 15% of the comments were along the lines of "and how many of these 62 were Franken supporters?"
The Rethuglicans are not happy about this one, and you can bet that the issue of the 133 missing ballots will go to court, and you can bet the absentee ballot issue will go to court. And you can bet that Franken will prevail in both. And you can bet that if either of those two things or both of them in tandem puts Franken over the top, Rethuglicans in Minnesota are going to think of Franken the way Dems thought of Bush.
Why is everyone surprised?
This is exactly what the Rethuglicans did in 2000 and what they'll keep doing again, and again, and again.
It is their modus operandi.
GET USED TO IT AND PREPARE FOR IT!
This whole recount just illustrates the problem of, what do you do when the vote differential between two candidates is less than the precision of your voting system? There will always be a margin of error in any voting system, even with recounting, and at times that will prevent you from saying with certainty which candidate won. Our current solution is to simply follow certain prescribed procedures and once finished, call the result final, but I wonder if other options would be preferable? Like requiring a new election, perhaps?
This election is coming down to who plays the better PR game, and more than just who from the general public buys into it, but how the media buys into it and reports it.
If Franken wins, the media could choose to report it as Franken was behind the entire time, but a "sympathetic" canvassing board listened to more of his pleas. Or, the media could choose to report it as the system working properly and ending up that it was Franken by 26 votes, or 4 votes, or whatever it is, and then explaining how it happened.
For the win to be viewed as legitimate in the eyes of the public, the main stream media needs to report this -- if Franken wins -- as democracy working the way that it should work. If they fail to do that, Franken will have a very rough 6 years and will be an easy target when his term is up for another Repub to swoop in.
The worst part about it all is that it really seems like Franken has only done the right thing so far, whether you like him or not...
Dale, I like how you completely undercut your point (which I agree with; it's why I never read comments on any major newspaper websites) by using the childish word "Rethuglican." It's not in the same league of stupidity as many of the things you outline, but it shows the same degenerative tendency.
I think people seem to have trouble recognizing bad political behavior when it comes from their own side.
And so there's no ambiguity, I'm a big liberal who really wants to see Franken in the senate, and thought his ad was effective.
Ok, if you think this video is sappy you can expect a lump of coal in your stocking. I personally believe every vote counts, even Sarah Palin's (oh jeez). I was able to walk to my polling station and cast my vote in NC. We turned NC blue. If I was laying in bed because of an illness I had, and had to do an absentee ballot, or if was in the frickin' middle east, fighting a war to protect freedom and democracy (ie. voting rights) you better count my absentee ballot especially if it was a clerical error that got it rejected. If this is not the way our democracy works then we better fix it! Left, Right, everybody. Am I wrong?
The video is too long but it has a clear and effective message. Does it make some GOPers apoplectic?
Good!
"Although Coleman would win a PR victory for somehow getting people to believe that not counting these votes is just "punishment" for bad voting behavior, his camp has been effective in pushing that message."
I'm assuming you meant ineffective
I think they just unanimously voted to count the 133 ballots!
@glenn: The flaw in your logic is that you'd have to set thresholds for a re-vote, and then what if () the count is within 100 votes of the threshold, and () the candidate who's behind would stand a good chance in a re-vote since certain 3rd-party people would be absent? It is best to make the threshold be about something concrete---who got more votes?---than something artificial. Instant Runoff Voting has a similar flaw that might have been seen in the Georgia race (since Chambliss was close to the 50%+1 line), though it is not as bad since the instant runoff tally would contribute some information of official standing.
Real news from the meeting: the state AG opines that the improperly-rejected absentee ballots should be counted, that if both candidates sign off on it it can become a legal shall, and even if they do not sign, there are other recourses before it becomes a court case.
@Dave: counting the 133 votes is one of the easier decisions the Canvassing Board has to make. And the only realistic alternative.
It seems obvious that every vote should be counted, but this isn't so easy. Clearly, many of these votes were rejected inappropriately, but there is no evidence of bias in doing so. It is simply mistakes.
Now, it seems like if mistakes are made, those mistakes should be corrected. But if I understand the system, only those ballots that were improperly EXCLUDED can be corrected. If a ballot were improperly INCLUDED, then the ballot has already been removed from its envelope, and we have no way to remedy that.
If we imagine that improper exclusion happens as often as improper inclusion, then statistically you'd be better off sticking with the current list, even though it has known errors in it.
Nonetheless, it seems legally the arguments all favor Franken, and many of these ballots will ultimately be included.
Perhaps someone could clarify something for me. My understanding is that the ballots excluded have been sorted into five piles, the fifth ones just being those ballots that were rejected for no apparent reason. But one of the other piles represents those which were "properly" rejected due to non-matching signatures. Presumably, many (most?) of those should NOT have been rejected, the person's signature has just evolved or is sufficiently sloppy that it wasn't recognized as matching. Is that correct? In that case, will there be a lawsuit trying to get this fourth pile included as well?
lutlist - List of Minnesota voters who miscast their votes from consuming too much lutfisk.
Well, there's a certain degree of cognitive dissidence going on here.
I mean, Public servants (supposedly) are there to serve the public. Not the other way around. Senators work for us, we don't work for them. So if anybody is going to punish anybody, Norm Coleman is in no place to punish the Minnesota electorate.
The voters hired your ass. The voters can fire your ass. You do what we tell you to do, not the other way around. And if the voters in Minnesota voted to throw your ass out Mr. Coleman, pack your shit and leave. Punish voters for bad voting behavior? No, Senator, the voters are going to punish you for your hubris.
The legal parameters on the improperly-rejected absentees---which are now estimated to be nearly 1,600 statewide---seem to be:
() The Canvassing Board cannot of-itself require counties to sort, much less count, the "5th pile".
() The counties MAY sort the piles.
() It is not clear if they MAY count the "5th pile". (If any does so on its own, there's sure to be a major equal-protection repercussion!)
() Given the AG's opinion, if any county refuses to sort the piles, they can expect to be sued (this is consensus opinion by TheUptake's observers).
WV "morision": I wish Samuel Eliot Morrison could have written about the past 50 years of US history!
Ah but Austen, you mistake my point here. I'm not referring to all Republicans as Rethuglicans. Only the Republican thugs who think they can force the outcome they want by bloviating loudly without merit to their arguments. Republican + thug = Rethuglican, that's what these obnoxious blowhards who spew this ignorance are, and therefore, I vehemently disagree that it undercuts my point in any way, shape or form...I consider it to be proper English. As Horton said, I meant what I said and I said what I meant.
cognitive dissidence
Statler,
It's cognitive dissonance, you dumbass. Try and learn to spell if you're going to try and sound smart.
Dale's right, the Strib comment boards are simply infested with idiotic posters bleating the same stupid stuff repeatedly and obviously haven't even read the story they're commenting on and haven't a clue about MN election law and process.
It's quite sad.
I, like the MN Supreme Court Justice said, believe this will end up in the courts, the 133 ballots challenged, the erroneously rejected absentee ballot (envelopes) challenged.
You also have the issue of SOME counties who rejected absentee envelopes early and notified voters to come in a fix it. Not all counties, just some.
I wonder what the proper venue will be, if Franken has to sue in every county that won't make a fifth pile, that's onerous. Federal court, aren't there jurisdictional issues?
Seems like the most judicious route would be the MN Supremes, however the two on the Canvassing Board would probably have to recuse.
-taconite12
I wonder what the proper venue will be, if Franken has to sue in every county that won't make a fifth pile, that's onerous. Federal court, aren't there jurisdictional issues?
I would guess that there is a mechanism to consolidate separately-venued lawsuits into one. Most states (and the feds) have such a mechanism, but I don't know specifically about MN.
As for fed court, there'd have to be some federal question raised (Equal Protection a la Bush v Gore, anyone?).
if both coleman and franken camps have to sign off on the fifth pile? i see more mass confusion-a lot more!
i also dont see legally how some counties doing it and others dont will work.
glad someone else noticed the nutty comments at the strib-my guess is thatr is the coleman camp rigging the comments, either that or MN has jumped off the bridge to insanity.
I just passed two dejected looking Republicans in a hallway saying "Well, that was an @sskicking if I ever saw one." That made me chuckle.
Ah---according to The Star Tribune's live-blog summary of the now-adjourned meeting, the counties MAY count the 5th piles, as well.
Given that this will probably lead to a divergence in behavior among counties, one can see a court case in Bush v. Gore territory (even if they can't formally acknowledge it as precedent:-) looming. The main point ultimately may be that Franken doesn't have to go into such a court case "cold"---he has some wind in his sails.
However, if the "facts on the ground" really are that the count is basically tied and trending against Coleman, it becomes in Coleman's interest to get as much as possible involved in court proceedings. Then he can try to maneuver the naval ballot ultimately into a re-vote, as per the New Hampshire senate-race precedent, where he would hope to prevail (ostensibly helped by having sullied Franken more in the meantime).
WV "mosea": had Obama called for a Missouri recount, that case would similarly be currently at mosea.
Mule Rider,
Try to use infinitives correctly when you're criticizing another person's grammar.
It's cognitive dissonance, you dumbass. Try and learn to spell if you're going to try and sound smart.
CORRECTION:
It's cognitive dissonance, you dumbass. Learn how to spell if you're going to try to sound smart.
Canvassing Board basically punted on the most pressing issue, and the one that will decide the contest, to the extent it can be decided given the MOE.
Yes, Equal Protection issue is at stake here regarding some counties counting, and some not. Franken's camp has already cited Bush V. Gore. (And didn't the SCOTUS say their decision was NOT to used as precedent?)
Obviously with all those top lawyers there, and both camps flush with cash, this is going to the Courts. It seems ridiculous that Franken would have to sue in dozens of counties to get them to count. And if the counties lose in court at the first level, they'll appeal, and then perhaps appeal again. Or vice-versa? County includes the 5th pile, and Coleman sues.
That'd be a ridiculous mess.
Seems to me this will end up in the MN Supreme Court, so why not just file something there, and have them make some prelim decisions, order an expedited 5th pile count in ALL counties, decide the 133 ballot question, and whatever challenged ballots are left unresolved after the Canvassing Board makes it decision on them.
And move QUICKLY!
-taconite12
@ssmith
Mule Rider,
Try to use infinitives correctly when you're criticizing another person's grammar.
Much as I hate to take Mule Rider's side in anything, the "try and" + infinitive structure IS considered correct English.
the "try and" + infinitive structure IS considered correct English.
No, it isn't.
I think I like "cognitive dissidence" better. It invokes an actual mental struggle, with rioting thoughts and rock-throwing ideas. It's a mental mutiny!
Final take home point and then we'll leave it alone:
It's far more egregious to confuse "dissidence" with "dissonance" than where I put my tos and ands.
One leads to a failure to understand the context of the words being used while the other is simply a petty enforcement of proper English.
Thanks, though, for dragging out the discussion unnecessarily.
You know how I can tell it's a slow news day? When the trolls yell at me over grammar and spelling. It's even slower when people actually yell back at them over their grammar and spelling in turn.
I just got done editing a 5 page grant proposal for class, and I've been up all night staring at acronyms and buzzwords. I can't tell if it's the caffeine or the lack of sleep, but I'm thinking of jerking off to a flowchart describing how block grants are disbursed and by which federal agencies before going to bed. Oooo. Block grants. That's hot.
Green libertarian, I believe that the SCOTUS said in Bush v. Gore that it's holding regarding equal protection of voters was not to be used as precedent to help get a Democrat elected to office.
And if that's not the exact language, it might as well have been.
If I feel really kinky, I'll draw a Venn diagram showing where MR and I overlap.
@sssmith: yah, it's acceptable but still not standard if we're getting into normative grammar. My guess is that nine out of ten copy-editors would correct a sentence to "try to" unless it were part of a spoken dialogue.
wv: yardma
@ Mule Rider
Look, 99.9% of the people reading these comments probably knew he meant "dissonance" when he wrote "dissidence" and mentally made the substitution without getting confused about the context. For you to point out the spelling error while calling him a dumbass left you wide open to a critique of your grammar usage. At least I did not call you a dumbass.
Yes, it is a slow news day.
Politico is now reporting that the Minnesota Canvassing Board has ruled unanimously for the inclusion of the lost 133 ballots in the final count, and also unanimously for the counting of improperly-rejected absentee ballots. Both os these are expected to result in significant gains for Franken, right?
wv: pubfwea. It's like a barfly, but smaller, and with a British accent and speech impediment.
@Sean
You wrote: "his camp has been effective in pushing that message."
Shouldn't that be: "...has not been..."?
Ah---according to The Star Tribune's live-blog summary of the now-adjourned meeting, the counties MAY count the 5th piles, as well.
That's all Franken needs. The Democratic leaning counties will decide to count the improperly rejected absentee ballots. These are the counties likely to make up most if not all of Frankens net gains. If the Republican counties choose not to count their fifth pile, it will only hurt Coleman even more.
By my saying the CB punted the question of identifying and counting the 5th pile, I did not mean to infer they were chickening out, or acting rashly, like being on your opponent's 40 yd line, 2nd down, and punting.
Clearly they believed with good reason they had no standing under the law to ORDER all the counties to count. And clearly they expected the matter to end up in the courts.
One could also argue (either side) that the counties do not a universal, reliable standard and method to fairly and consistently make decisions as to whether an absentee ballot envelope is valid or not. In this case, a higher legal authority (MN Supremes, Special Magistrate, whatever) would be required to assure that a consistent standard was applied across the board in accepting/rejecting absentee envelopes, and that doesn't mean dozens and dozens of election officials.
KennyB, point taken.
heh heh heh
-taconite 12
Dude, if we appoint Diana Ross Chief Justice, we'd have Diana Ross and the Supreme Court.
I dunno why I think that's funny right now. I fucking need sleep.
Wonder why Mule Rider is having so much cognitive dissonance over cognitive dissidents? She seems to be a perfect example of cognitive dissidence. It's a mystery, I guess, adding to everyone's cognitive dissonance.
Looks top me that this election will be tied up in the courts for a long time, my gut feeling is if they count all the votes Franken wins.
By the time this thing is settled Coleman may already be indicted for something! I can`t believe he got even 42% of the vote, the guy just looks slimy.
Thanks to KWRegan for the Tribune link.
Would Franken have benefited from instant runoff voting (IRV)? Is it easy to see how the votes for the third party candidate would have split in the MN senate race. I just viewed Howard Dean singing the praises of IVR on youtube.
I have seen discussion of IRV on this site before but I do not remember much of the content.
How often have Federal Elections come this close to a tie?
Can the Margin of Error (MOE0 of voting systems be evaluated with enough accuracy and precision to create legislation using it?
This time I wouldn't say the CB "punted"---it was more positive than I expected when I predicted it would. Rather, I'd call it an excellent deep ball on 3rd-and-20 from midfield, one which is on-target enough that it can't simply be batted down or left to fall incomplete. Either the Coleman defender has to go for the interception, in which case he'll be tackled at the 1, or Franken might catch it for the touchdown. Either is better than the usual "punt"! Given the popular count-the-vote tone of the AG's opinion, no flag will be thrown for offensive interference by Franken, but one might be thrown against Coleman, which could be just as bad as allowing a TD in the court of public opinion.
While the thread is up-in-arms about word-choice, above I meant "naval battle", not "naval ballot" :-). I also meant to say in response to Glenn's ...no court would look at it that way legally that the 2000 FL Supreme Court decision (which IMHO will age well with time despite how it was overturned by SCOTUS) quoted exactly the kind of language affirming the right to vote that Glenn talked about (pp 18-19 citing another case, Boardman vs. Esteva, 1975).
WV "dipars": alas, threads often degenerate to the level of asstronauts wearing dipars.
GlennNYC said "...I would guess that there is a mechanism to consolidate separately-venued lawsuits into one. Most states (and the feds) have such a mechanism, but I don't know specifically about MN."
In MN, all suits contesting the handling of any aspect of a statewide election are to be filed in Ramsay County (where the state capital is).
WV- word variations? word violations?
I have convinced myself that it is not "watching videos" and that the "w" is somehow related to the word "word".
I had to remove my posts because the typos were just unbearable.
I'm a fan of the open primary system. Instead of having separate pools for each political party, where you can only vote in a party's primary if you belong to that primary, I say you should have one big pool that everybody can vote for someone from. Whoever the two are that emerge from this mash up go into a runoff.
Reason why I like this? The emphasis isn't on the political party as much as it is on the candidate. It almost always results in the two strongest candidates going at it in the runoff. Thus, party brahmins (read:superdelegates)can't decide who's going to run the show; the electorate does that.
The Superdelegates, like the Electoral College, is a holdover from the days when people thought we were just too fucking stupid to elect our own leaders. Party bosses used to call the shots, but they moved toward superdelegates + a primary system to make it more democratic. In relative terms it was, since it used to be backroom deals that got you the nod. But it's still not pure democracy in the sense of all votes being equal.
Wouldn't it be nice if there were no party bosses at all? Even better, if there were no parties, and we just voted for the candidate instead? No more Democrat v Republican, no more Greens and Libertarians struggling to get in. Just one big mash up, without any electors or superdelegates, just the voice of the people in it's purest form.
Canvassing Board voted to recount the rejected absentee ballots AND upheld the motion to go with the original count in Hennepin which included the 133 missing ballots. The +46 votes from the missing envelope reduces Coleman's lead to 146 before challenges resolve and the rejected absentee ballots should give Franken another 100 or so votes, meaning this is now very close to being resolved in Franken's favour. The legal challenges will now be by Coleman who will have the burden of proof in trying to overturn the Canvassing Board's decisions in the MN State Supreme Court (or SCOTUS).
-Jeff
wv = word verification, i.e., the word you must type to make a post.
wv: gleyed, the look one gets when reading too may blogs; glassy eyed
I'm a fan of the open primary system. Instead of having separate pools for each political party, where you can only vote in a party's primary if you belong to that primary, I say you should have one big pool that everybody can vote for someone from. Whoever the two are that emerge from this mash up go into a runoff.
This doesn't always work well and can lead to strategic gamesmanship. For example, lets say Candidates A and B, both members of Pary X, get 20% of the vote. Candidates C, D, E, and F, all members of Party Y, get 15% of the vote each. The two members of Party X go into the runoff, despite the members of Party Y receiving 60% of the vote.
Ickey,
Are you saying that the Coleman campaign can appeal the Canvassing Board's decision to the Minn. Supreme Court? Or do they instead challange that decision in a lower court first?
I have no idea as to the Minn. law.
Dissidents: n person who opposes official policy, esp. that of an authoritarian state.
Cognitive dissidents. I rather like the poetry in this whether it was intended or not.
Cognitive flatulence. What AssRider engages in.
Statard Waldork,
Hasn't anyone taught you the difference between its and it's, moron?
@Statler
Step away from the beer and computer. Get some sleep.
Another Mike,
That's a good thing in my opinion, because elections should not be about the party. They should be about the person.
In an open primary, all candidates are equal. And it's the candidate that wins, not the party.
KennyB,
I'm no legal expert either - just assuming it will eventually wind up in a high court before it's all done.
Next step is the review of the challenged ballots starting next wk. Franken needs to gain about +60 or more from that category (easily doable according to Nate's math) to have a real, tangible lead. Then the public view is Coleman is the sore loser trying to "steal" Franken's election. That's how the PR game is fought in a re-count. We could do with another challenged ballot breakdown along the 8 possible paramater permutations, too, now that we have a new fixed goal #. But from what I remember, Franken now stands at least a 3/4ths chance at winning, barring a court overturn.
Running Coleman out of money is also just as good as a win, as he'll have nothing left for legal defence once his indictment happens. Even if he does win this, Franken probably gets another shot in 2 yrs against an empty seat, anyway. It's more in Coleman's interest to fight in his trial than to keep fighting Franken.
-Jeff
Update on the post? Any news from the board?
Sounds like the Board told the counties to go find and count improperly rejected absentee ballots, and they also decided to stick with the original count for those 133 missing ballots - net gain for Franken of 40 votes with those, and however many come with those absentee ballots to be counted.
Assuming all of this is executed, this was a straight-up triumph for Al Franken's campaign, and a decision that could very well give Franken the keys to the U.S. Senate. And if he still comes up short, Minnesota and the rest of the country can rest easy knowing that the result of this election was the will of the people - or as close as we were ever going to get.
Huffington Post reports that the Canvassing Board will count all absentee ballots which were improperly rejected and will use the election night totals for the missing Envelope 1 of 5 in Minneapolis. That's a major victory for Franken.
I've been disturbed by how this has played out. I would remind everyone that the winner is not the one who objects the loudest; it is the result of the voter tabulation. If that is Coleman, then so be it. Likewise Franken. I hate to parrot Hillary, but every vote that can be legitimately counted must count. Screaming, stamping of feet, vitriol, and calls to revolt are counterproductive to the Democratic process.
It is easy to believe that the devil lives within the margin of error (yes, I voted for Gore and was just as incensed at the Scalia's stain on Democracy as Coleman supporters seem to be about the way the recount is not going as well as they'd like). Sometimes, however, it has to get a whole lot worse before it can get better and that the majority realize, whoops, maybe that was a mistake. It appears that MN is split pretty evenly on this race. But the race is run. I only hope that cooler heads will prevail in the re-tally. And that the losing side will accept the results.
69th! Woohoo!
Dinner for 2?
By my saying the CB punted the question of identifying and counting the 5th pile, I did not mean to infer they were chickening out, or acting rashly, like being on your opponent's 40 yd line, 2nd down, and punting.
@green libetarian
As it is Grammar/Rhetoric Day,let me humbly point out you meant "imply" not "infer".
Opus 132 said...
By my saying the CB punted the question of identifying and counting the 5th pile, I did not mean to infer they were chickening out, or acting rashly, like being on your opponent's 40 yd line, 2nd down, and punting.
@green libetarian
As it is Grammar/Rhetoric Day,let me humbly point out you meant "imply" not "infer".
December 12, 2008 3:40 PM
I free admit I have and will continue to make grammitacal, and spelling errors and have no problem with corrections as I hope to learn from my betters.
The Founding Fathers shared Statler's vision of a politics unencumbered by parties. They knew that George Washington was going to be elected president more or less by acclamation, and despite their foresight in so many other ways, they seemed to believe that this would continue to be the case. Moreover, the Constitution originally provided for the person receiving the second largest number of (electoral) votes to be Vice President.
It didn't take long, just until the Adams-Jefferson administration succeeded the Washington-Adams administration, to learn that this formulation was absolutely unworkable. Although they were not intended as such, political parties seem to be structurally essential to our form of government, and possibly to all democratic republics.
wv: mardn, as in "Mardn me Padam, may I sew you to another sheet?"
Kennyb said "...Are you saying that the Coleman campaign can appeal the Canvassing Board's decision to the Minn. Supreme Court? Or do they instead challange that decision in a lower court first?"
The court of first instance for election cases (if the election is statewide) is the district court for Ramsey County (where St. Paul, the capital, is) regardless of in which county the particular action complained of took place (so if there are multiple complaints, all can be consolidated).
@Dmitry: you dummy, Statler used "it's" correctly (as the contraction for "it is"; the possessive pronoun is the one with no apostrophe, but apparently you have that backwards in your head).
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