Although Ted Stevens holds a small lead in Alaska and is the favorite to retain his seat, the outcome is not as inevitable as it might appear to be. Stevens currently holds a lead of 3,353 votes, or about 1.5 percent of the votes tallied so far. But, there are quite a large number of ballots yet to count. According to Roll Call, these include "at least 40,000 absentee ballot, 9,000 early voting ballots, and an undetermined number of questionable ballots".
Indeed, it seems possible that the number of "questionable" ballots could be quite high. So far, about 220 thousand votes have been processed in Alaska. This compares with 313 thousand votes cast in 2004. After adding back in the roughly 50,000 absentee and early ballots that Roll Call accounts for, that would get us to 270 thousand ballots, or about a 14 percent drop from 2004. It seems unlikely that turnout would drop by 14 percent in Alaska given the presence of both a high-profile senate race and Sarah Palin at the top of the ticket.
But even if Begich were to make up ground and win a narrow victory, this would seem to represent a catastrophic failure of polling, as three polls conducted following the guilty verdict in Stevens' corruption trial had Begich leading by margins of 7, 8 and 22 points, respectively.
The emerging conventional wisdom is that there was some sort of a Bradley Effect in this contest -- voters told pollsters that they weren't about to vote for that rascal Ted Stevens, when in fact they were perfectly happy to. Convicted felons are the new black, it would seem.
The problem with this theory is that the polling failures in Alaska weren't unique to Stevens. They also applied to the presidential race, as well as Alaska's at-large House seat. In each case, the Republican outperformed his pre-election polling by margins ranging from 12 to 14 points:Contest Projection Result Delta
There are three plausible explanations I can think of to explain this discrepancy. The first and most likely is that the Democratic vote became complacent and did not bother to turn out. The outcome of the presidential contest was not going to be close in Alaska, and Barack Obama's victory in the Electoral College was apparent as of about 4 PM local time. Begich supporters, moreover, may have looked at the polls and concluded that their candidate was far enough ahead that they didn't have to bother to vote. Meanwhile, the Republican base was going to turn out no matter what because of their enthusiasm for Sarah Palin. There seems to be a sort of danger zone at about 10 points wherein a candidate is far enough ahead that many of his supporters assume the race is in the bag, but not so far ahead that he is immune to poor turnout (a similar dynamic affected then-Governor Jim Blanchard of Michigan in his 1990 race against John Engler).
AL-ALL Berkowitz +6.4 (i) Young +7.7 GOP +14.1
AL-Sen Begich +12.9 (ii) Stevens +1.5 GOP +14.4
AL-Pres McCain +13.9 (iii) McCain +25.3 GOP +12.4
(i) Pollster.com Trend Estimate
(ii) FiveThirtyEight Polling Average
(iii) FiveThirtyEight Trend-Adjusted Estimate
The second possibility is that a substantial percentage of the Democratic vote is tied up in the early and absentee ballots that have yet to be counted. We know that Barack Obama overperformed among early voters in many states, and Alaska may be no exception. (Although, I would guess that the absentee vote is predominately rural, whereas Begich's base is in Anchorage).
The third possibility is that a lot of those "questionable" ballots are Democratic ones, and that there have been irregularities in the voting tally. Although this is the least likely possibility, Alaska is a provincial state with some history of corruption, and Democrats ought to be making sure that too many of their ballots haven't been disqualified.
11.05.2008
What In The Hell Happened in Alaska?
by Nate Silver @ 9:04 PM
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389 comments
The Oregonian has called the race for Merkley!
I believe this would make convicted felons the new white, actually (and ironically).
Thanks for all the great info Nate.
Any chance you have any information on Minnesota? How likely would it be for Franken to overturn the 400 some odd votes?
I'm really looking forward to your breakdown of which pollsters were most accurate. New data!
I'm also really enjoying the FreeRepublic boards. For two months now they've been responding to every single poll with rants about how a 31% R 38% D party ID weighting was totally unrealistic and skewing the results, and that it was clear evidence of pollster bias. Everyone on the site agreed about this; it wasn't even up for debate.
The actual result? 30% R 38% D.
And on FreeRepublic?
Not a word.
Goddamn. Annoying to think that this was really the D's only chance - surely a Republican, any Republican, will prevail in the inevitable special. Oh well. At least they can boot out Lieberman now.
btw- Gallatin County in Montana went for Barack. We'd like an apology from Sean.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Shouldn't it be AK-ALL, etc. or is the AL not stand for AlasKa?
I wonder if the "enthusiasm" for Palin was a bit exagerated. Perhaps Alaskans were having a second look at her - in all probability most Alaskans did not know her very well. All the exposure may have knocked the gloss off.
IMHO.
Well if scenario 3 turns out to be correct, and there are irregularities, I'm sure that the Ethics Committee will clear the governor of any wrongdoing...
North Carolina continues to limit, albeit in a very small way, my euphoria tonight. My wife was part of Obama's get out the vote army here in Western NC. I wanted to greet her when she arrived home tonight with news that NC was, FINALLY and officially, BLUE. I guess it's ok though, i do have leftover champagne and a still functional F5 key to keep me going....
----------------
Obama the 'unofficial winner' in North Carolina
RAW STORY
Published: Wednesday November 5, 2008
Gary Bartlett, executive director of North Carolina's State Board of Elections, will not call his state for a presidential candidate until all provisional ballots have been counted and certified on or before December 1.
"It widens the lead for the winner, no matter who that may be," Bartlett said Wednesday. Senator and President-elect Obama is unofficially ahead in North Carolina by 13,746 votes.
"Our law allows us to say who the unofficial winner is," Bartlett added, "but you know we have a formal process in which we audit records." He estimated that about 40,000 ballots had yet to be counted, and the eligibility of those who cast them has to be confirmed.
Obama, pending final count, won against Senator John McCain (R-AZ) on Tuesday with an electoral vote tally of 349-163, easily surpassing the 270 needed to win. The Democratic Illinois senator also led the popular vote 53% (63,893,037) to 46% (56,404,917).
Also, let's not forget:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/todays-polls-1019.html#comment-6247341420195265026
"Libs, if B. Hussein Obama wins NC I will eat my hat on YouTube."
I want to see this.
Nate,
Just to clarify a few things re: the vote count. Absentee-in-person voting was available up through Monday. However, any of these votes cast after Thursday in some places or Wednesday of last week in others were not ready to be counted by yesterday because the names of early voters were not able to be compared to voter rolls, absentee ballots received, etc. I honestly have no idea how these early votes are likely to break, but I do know that Begich's campaign had a large phone-banking GOTV operation running all weekend,
http://www.elections.alaska.gov/files/08GENR/remaining_absentee_early_question_numbers.pdf
Here's a district breakdown of where the outstanding votes are. I can't find any sort of a district map, but wow, 61,000+ votes left to be counted. In certain districts, high numbers of 'questionable' ballots and early votes, too. Hmm.
Can anyone help me out in determining where these are from?
Well, we should at least be able to eliminate possibility #2 as they get around to counting those votes...
Anyone hear Mark Levin today? What a bitter, despicable person this is. I am ashamed to share the title of Human Being with that monster.
Lighten up, you idiot.
@Charles Danforth:
AK==Alaska
AL==At Large
Alaska has only one congresional seat, so instead of being AK-23 or even AK-1, it is AK-AL.
sounds like corruption to me. AK seems to have a lot of that going around recently, so I wouldn't put it past them. For all of those races to be off by 14-15%, something is seriously wrong.
Link
Sorry about that.
Since the election news is winding down, how about some unusual regular news...
Jogger runs mile with rabid fox locked on her arm
From Associated Press
November 05, 2008 7:51 PM EST
PRESCOTT, Ariz. - Authorities in Arizona say a jogger attacked by a rabid fox ran a mile with the animal's jaws clamped on her arm and then drove herself to a hospital. The Yavapai County sheriff's office said the woman told deputies she was on a trail near Prescott on Monday when the fox attacked and bit her foot.
She said she grabbed the fox by the neck when it went for her leg but it bit her arm.
The woman wanted the animal tested for rabies so she ran a mile to her car with the fox still biting her arm, then pried it off and tossed it in her trunk and drove to the Prescott hospital.
The sheriff's office says the fox later bit an animal control officer. He and the woman are both receiving rabies vaccinations.
US teen compacted in garbage truck, survives
From Associated Press
November 05, 2008 8:45 AM EST
MILWAUKEE - Police in Milwaukee say a teenage boy has survived after being accidentally dumped into the back of a recycling truck and compacted.
Police say the 14-year-old ran away from a boot camp-style school for teens Monday and hid in a recycling bin filled with cardboard.
The bin was picked up by a Waste Management truck and dumped into the vehicle's rear compactor.
Waste Management spokeswoman Lynn Morgan says the truck continued on its collection route, compacting cardboard several times.
The boy was not discovered until the truck dumped its load at a recycling processing center.
He was semiconscious and was taken to a hospital, but police say his injuries are not life-threatening.
You really think that a bias in voting irregularities is less likely than possibility #1, that Democratic voters just randomly decided to skip the election?
Democrats just randomly decided to skip an election where they would be voting out a convicted felon?
Is there any kind of historical precedent for this kind of voter apathy in the face of felony conviction?
Methinks you have your relative likelihoods of these two scenarios backwards.
But I really think scenario #2 is waht happened.
Anyone interested in seeing a picture of a voting place in Merced, CA complete with a booth supporting Prop. 8?? It's a church... so they must not have to follow any laws.
Oh, and anybody who thinks Lieberman would (have) help(ed) the Democrats break a filibuster is smoking something very tasty.
The remote rural absentee as Republican phenomenom is only true if the states remote rural population tends to be of the white christian variety (as is the case in most states). I would imagine that in Alaska a good portion of those are Inuit/Eskimo/Other Native and Native Americans have been breaking heavy for the Dems this year elsewhere (Obama especially). I don't think they are all that pleased with Palin either. Then again remote rural might be harder to poll.
Or I could be wrong and all the Native people didn't vote/voted in towns. But if my intuition is correct the rural absentee issue could favor the Dems here more than elsewhere and might be better than expected news in a one point race.
Nate: Could it also be that there was a letdown by the head of the Democratic ticket after Palin was nominated? During early-mid Summer, you were keeping Alaska on the map as a possible Obama target.
After Palin was nominated, it probably wasn't just the average Democrat but also the Obama organization that gave up.
And this may have cost the Democratic party a chance to pick up another Senate seat.
If Stevens resigns or is expelled from the Senate, can Pailin appoint herself as Senator? I think she can call a special election within 60-90 days, but can she then run for the Senate seat while still holding her governor's position? Some states have laws against that. Of course, that didn't keep her for running for VP. Scary!
I'd like to point out that the DC projection was even more wildly off - you pegged +59.4, and it was +86. :)
Here's my fear...
1.) Stevens wins re-election...
2.) ...but is kicked out of the Senate for his crimes...
3.) ...which means Governor Palin gets to appoint his replacement...
4.) ...and she appoints herself.
Senator Palin from Alaska.
Welcome to your new nightmare.
Nate -- are you sure Blanchard/Engler was complacency? I remember reading at the time (but never bothered to verify) that
(1) The reduced turnout was largely in Detroit, and
(2) It wasn't complacency, it was intentional on the part of then-mayor Coleman Young to *not* do GOTV, as part of a feud with Blanchard/the rest of the state Dem party.
If indeed Stevens is sent back (along with Young), it will be so easy to really cut back on Alaska welfare.
The only problem is that Harry Reid wants to nearly invalid Robert Byrd to leave his chairmanship of the Appropriations Committee - and be replaced by Stevens' best friend, Hawaii Sen Daniel Inouye...
A comment on Alaska from an Alaskan. Do not underestimate the great difficulties in polling in rural Alaska. This is a region of the state that is predominately Native Alaskan (ie. Native American) and have been strong and loyal supporters of both Stevens and Young (whose wife is an Alaska Native). I did not vote for either of these two, but they have in all honesty helped to better the very difficult living conditions that face rural Alaskans. Don't just write this off as "pork" and "waste"...if you have never visited this part of our country you cannot grasp how hard the life is in rural Alaska. It would be very difficult in my opinion to get many people from rural Alaska to answer the phone (if they have one) or to get them to engage a pollster. Just some thoughts.
Dalton,
Almost 50% of the votes yet to be counted appear to be from Anchorage (Region II) though some parts of the municipality (such as Eagle River which is District 25, I think...) skew more conservative. As a popular Anchorage Mayor, this can't be BAD for Begich, but I have no idea how he has performed in places like Fairbanks and SouthEast to know whether the margin is too big for a large Anchorage swing to overcome.
Link
Its F'n unbelievable that Stevens may win this seat. What the hell is wrong with the people up in Alaska. Could a convicted felon get hired as a teacher? A police officer? A janitor in a government office????
Than why the hell can they get elected to the US Senate! First Palin, now this. Alaska SUCKS!!!
Under the Bush Doctrine, since Alaska may want to secede one day, can we just bounce them from the Union now???
it boils down to this: alaska is a crazy crazy place and would rather vote for a felon than a democrat, sometimes a democrat than a woman, and sometimes a woman over a democrat. alaska can't be predicted, polled, or subject to common sense, logic, or explanation. take it from a born and bred alaskan: it defies all models and is best left alone.
Nate gets a well-deserved major shout-out from Rachel Maddow!!
She gave him an A+ as the country's most accurate predictor of the election results!!!!
There's something for the inside cover of the book that you're all going to do, right???
Since we are flagging voting weirdness, take a look at Louisiana. The stats I saw last week predicted 40% black voters, but Obama ends with 39%? He was only getting 15 or 20% of the white in the racist south, but that final percentage seems exceedingly low to me.
I think in a large geographical state with a couple of population centers but many people living in rural areas...there are many chances for simple sampling error...I bet many of the rural voters do not even have phones...
Also what Dave said,
Stevens especially has done very very well by the Alaska Native population over the course of his career.
Also, regarding anyone asking if Palin can appoint herself, the answer is no. The law was changed by ballot initiative to require a special election after Frank Murkowski got elected Governor and appointed his daughter Lisa to fill the seat. Ironically, she's a much better Senator than her father, which is probably why she is likely to face a strong primary challenge from the right in 2010.
If he gets elected, Palin will have the ability to nominate whoever she wants to take over the seat. Might she nominate herself?
I really hope this corrupt asshole Ted Stevens loses his seat. Can't believe he might win. Well, I can believe it, but it's really sad.
As quite a few people here have commented thus far, Sarah Palin cannot appoint any replacement, including herself. Alaska is one of the few states (only 2, I believe) that do not allow the appointment by governor, even temporarily. The replacement would be chosen by special election.
I believe this stems from some former governor appointing his daughter.
Along with the news of thousands of votes not being counted in Hillsborough County, Florida, because of faulty computers, this news from Alaska is very disappointing. Thank God the election was not close.
There may be only one solution to the problem of people not bothering to vote in Alaska because results have already come in from elsewhere: hold the Alaskan election on the Monday, a day before the rest of the country.
I wonder how many early votes were prior to Stevens' conviction? What percentage of said early votes would change their votes upon learning of Stevens' felony conviction?
@ paul and rachel maddow
Sarah Palin (or the lieutenant goverment in the scratch my back ploy) CANNOT directly name the replacement Senator in Alaska. It is AGAINST ALASKA law.
Instead, they have a special election. Which Bible Spice would win.
Alaska has passed a voter proposition which does not allow the gov to appoint the next Senator, of course, the U.S. Constitution says she can - and in the end the Constitution will trump if the clause is found to be clear and decisive, which might be an open question. Alaska, our never ending problem. Can we get our $1 million back and just let it secede?
If Stevens resigns or is expelled, look for Palin to resign as governor and have her lt. gov. then appoint Palin to replace Stevens.
Nate: I've been following your site for a good three months now, and I must say, "You are the Man!" As a fellow data hound, I bow down to you...STATS RULE!
Thanks for posting this, I have been wondering this all day.
If your first reason is correct, why wouldn't Republicans also stay away from the polls? If the presidential race is in the bag, shouldn't both sides display voter apathy? The Dems were certainly more energized in this election than the Republicans which I would imagine would get people out to the polls regardless. Furthermore, with a contested Senate and Congressional race voter apathy does not make sense. Even in 2006, when there was no Senate race and Young won with 56% there was a turnout of 235,000.
I'm an Alaskan Democrat, and I think option one is the most likely scenario also. I was mildly surprised yesterday that no Democratic organization called to get out my vote. Nate is wrong about the electoral vote being evident at 4:00 local, I think it was closer to 6:00, although still long before the polls closed. What's so disappointing about this is that I believe there was a genuine growth in support for the Democrats in Alaska this year, as shown by the huge turnout for Obama at the caucus on Super Tuesday. Unfortunately, after Palin was chosen by McCain things turned around very quickly. The Obama campaign, which had a very strong presence here, left for greener pastures and I felt like most of the "Democratic Unity" left with them. I also suspect that Begich did not get much money from the national Democrats because they figured he couldn't lose. I also agree with the commenter above who said this was the Democrats only chance. Palin or any other non-scandal-tainted Republican will stomp the Democrat in a special election.
Palin would then win in a special election . . . then watch out Washington (and not in a good way but in a back-biting, lying, opportunistic way)
I live in Alaska, and maybe I can shed a little light on this. (I might have been able to do more, but the day Palin was announced as the VP pick, I moved from conservative Alaska to hippie town Juneau, so most of the comments I've heard recently are from die-hard libs.) However, I can say a few things.
1. There's a reason people call Ted Stevens Uncle Ted and you see bumper stickers that says, "I'll Vote Ted till He's Dead." There's a sense of loyalty to him. People figure that, maybe he is corrupt, but he's done a lot for the state, so let's keep him around.
2. I think there was also some, "Screw you, Lower-48" going on. People had sort of been making fun of us and telling us there was no possible way we could vote in that convict *ahem* this site *cough*. Alaskans don't really like that. Plus, there was some annoyance that the trial was held in DC instead of here in Alaska. Alaskans pride themselves on their independence, so I think a big part of this was just people here thumbing their noses at the pollsters. I think AK is a very difficult place to poll. Part of my job is to contact rural communities, where about 1/5 of the state lives, and, for a lot of them, it's impossible to get ahold of anyone -- and those are the communities that benefited the most from Stevens (and Young).
4. Palin is not as popular as she used to be. I've heard more and more comments talking about what a horrible job she's done (in fact, the only reason she was so popular was because she never did anything and no one knew anything about her -- it's hard to disapprove of someone who's pretty much invisible). Obviously, a lot of conservatives turned out to vote for her, but she's nowhere near the 80% she was at before being nominated.
5. What is truly shocking, to the people I've talked to, though, is that Young beat Berkowitz by a much wider margin than Stevens beat Begich. Although Stevens has been convicted and Young is only under investigation, Stevens is still much more popular. I've heard that a piece of pie could run again Young and get at least 40% of the vote. Before the election, Alaskans, both republican and democrat, were certain that Stevens would win (people even said he could go to jail and still win) but that Young would lose. I never understood how all of the polls could have Stevens winning. I don't know if the pollsters just never talked to an Alaskan or what, but we all were about 90% certain Stevens would win.
Maybe word got around that if Stevens were to be elected and then expelled from the Senate that Palin would be able to appoint someone, which could be herself if they saw the writing on the wall that she wasn't going to be VP. That wouldn't explain why other GOP votes were up also, however.
Here is the clause from the Constituion:
"When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies."
It has been interpreted as:
"Vacant House seats must be filled by election. For the Senate, state governors may fill vacancies."
Note the "may" language. I am not sure what ti means, but we can just ask out president-elect, as he is a constitutional law professor.
pesackamy,
Palin's approval should also dive now that she forced more than a spotlight on fed money going to Alaska. I'll bet that Stevens or not, that money will be decreased to virtually nothing in the next couple of years now that people will be looking at it . . .
Okay, here's the revised fear...
1.) Stevens wins re-election...
2.) ...but is kicked out of the Senate for his crimes...
3.) ...which means there's a special election to fill his seat...
4.) ...in which Governor Palin runs...
5.) ...and wins.
Senator Palin from Alaska.
Welcome to our new national nightmare.
Frankly, I am sick of writing this, but the threads were long today, and hard to read, thanks to Pete Kent and Prop. 8's victory and the endless debate it engendered, but...
Sarah Palin CAN appoint herself as INTERIM SENATOR for 60-90 days, when a Special Election would be held, in which she could run.
And what's wrong with propping up Sarah Palin's national reputation with a stint in the Senate? It would ensure Obama 2 terms if the right wing nominates her in 2012.
Palin would be a blast in Washington. Olberman would eat her for dinner on his show every night. Please send Senator Sarah, she will be a huge laughing stock.
Dude, Brad. You didn't quote the whole sentence:
"When vacancies happen in the representation of any state in the Senate, the executive authority of such state shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, that the legislature of any state may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct."
The legislature of the state in question (or the people by way of a legislated ballot initiative process) may strip the executive of the ability to make appointments.
Doesn't the Alaskan law say there is no interim senator at all between the resignation and the special election? I have not read the law, only news stories about it, but....
Nightmare? No, great. Palin would be the gift that keeps giving for Dems.
I'd prefer a Dem, but if a Repub has to win the seat (assuming as I do not hope Begich doesn't win) I'd love for her to win.
A freshman (1st two years) Senator is expected to be a quiet little boy or girl. Until recent years, he or she according to protocal didn't even make the first speech on the floor until there for a couple of years (seriously - not making this up - it would cause a new Senator to be ostracized by both parties).
(Sorry to post off-topic):
Just checked up on Hillsborough County, Florida.
In 2004, total votes were 463,222. At the moment, the county is reporting 383,667. That's a decline of 79,555.
Florida as a whole has increased it's total number of votes by about 5%; applying this to Hillsborough County would give about 486,000 expected votes in 2008. So they're just over 100,000 votes short of what might be expected.
100,000 votes is a lot of ballots to mess-up with inadequate computers. I hope they can somehow recover the data.
@ Brad
I interpret that clause of the constitution to only set a default rule for states. If states have opted out of the default and passed a special state law provision, I would think that controls. I am only a law student, not a constitutional law scholar (like our President-elect), but I don't think the constitutional provision applies here.
brad,
Interesting . . . here in Ohio, Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones recently, suddenly and tragically died. We've had to have 2 special elections to fill the vacancy. She was up for reelection so the special elections are, essentially, for a couple of weeks in December. We are, effectively, spending a boatload of money to give someone a Christmas bonus.
Senate, however, is usually a different story. "May", legally speaking, is permissive rather than mandatory (such as must or shall). So Alaskans, are you certain there's a state law requiring a special election for Senate and did it pass legal muster?
"The stats I saw last week predicted 40% black voters, but Obama ends with 39%?"
Guys, I know we all want to look at the final numbers and compare them to Nate's and others' predictions and start naming names about who knew what they were talking about and who didn't.
But there are anywhere from 3 - 15 million votes that haven't been counted yet. Ted Stevens has NOT been officially re-elected yet, and it seems perfectly plausible that, when it's all said and done, Stevens will, in fact, NOT be re-elected.
Obama has not ENDED with 39% in Louisiana. CNN at this moment shows him at 40%. CNN also shows about 1.93 million votes in LA versus 1.94 million votes in LA in 2004. I know NOLA lost population because of Katrina, but isn't it likely that there are missing votes in LA that are yet to be counted - not because of sinister vote suppression, but just simply because they haven't gotten to them?
I know it's hard, but we might want to wait until all of the votes are counted before we decide how badly Nate "missed" the Alaska Senate race or how "questionable" the LA numbers are or why turnout was so low.
The exit polls in Alaska seem to have got the presidential result spot-on, so whatever happened was accurately picked up.
anyone know where to compare election results county by county from previous elections....was interested on looking at that information....
Here is the real problem in Alaska with the senate appointment, two laws in Alaska which disagree, and here is an issue with the legislature's law, but I can't find that link at the moment.
http://www.adn.com/politics/story/569836.html
If Stevens were to resign from his seat or be expelled, how would a replacement be chosen?
Nobody can say for sure.
That's because Alaska's law on senatorial succession was changed twice in 2004 -- once by the Legislature, and once by ballot initiative. Both laws call for a special election within 60 to 90 days of the vacancy. But they disagree on whether the governor appoints an interim senator in the meantime.
The Alaska Supreme Court would ultimately have to decide which law the state follows.
Alaskan exit polls for the Senate:
Male (48%):
Begich - 39%, Stevens - 56%.
Female (52%):
Begich - 52%, Stevens - 42%.
tomthress-
Thanks for nothing. The polls last week accounted for KAtrina and unless the coming vote is completely different than that already counted (highly unlikely) it is still strange that blacks in Louisiana did not turn out for Obama, or the polls were wrong in Louisiana (or that there was a Bradley Effect there only).
Smart ass...
Concerning naming a senator: Actually, it's kind of silly. The people in the state passed a law that said the governor could not appoint a senator, and we had to have a special election in (I think it's) 60-90 days. However, the state legislature said that the governor could appoint a senator sometime between 5 and 30 days (I think those are the numbers). So they say two different things. Which one is going to hold up if Stevens is kicked out (he won't resign)? Who knows? (Also, I highly doubt Palin would win a senate race.)
I apologize for the thread jack, but Rahm Emanuel just accepted as Obama's Chief of Staff, and I'm wondering what the odds of him slipping into the VP slot in 2012 to prepare for a 2016 run? Is it possible that was discussed before accepting?
I've always been a big proponent of state's rights but I gotta tell ya that it looks like we've got a few third world states that need to be bumped into this century . . .
Hey, I live in Ohio and we're pretty borderline on that score (although we did manage to get voting reasonable this year and actually have results at a decent hour!)
But, geez, Florida and Alaska are just messes and, honestly, don't seem to be doing anything on their own to clean things up . . .
andrew-
That was my thinking too. I think Biden is losing credibility with Obama over the slip ups.
I have seen zero speculation of this from anyone though, but for you and I.
If this was not the case, I don't understand why Rahm would not just get Obama's senate seat.
A few points...
1) I have a hard time believing in vote apathy that much. I mean Alaska had contested contests for house and senate for the first time in a while. That has to mean something. Alaska's never been the lynchpin of any national contest, so Obama winning or not seems irrelevant to the typical Alaskan voter. I don't Alaskan democrats really thought their votes would push Kerry or Gore over the top.
2) Why do so many jump to the conclusion that Palin would want to be in the Senate? Most presidential runs are made from the governorships, and politically I'm not sure what she would gain from a Senate seat. If anything, I'd think she'd be pushed to the background.
Appointing herself Senator and then running in an election she'll surely win, through legitimate means or otherwise, sounds like something that Putin would do. Heh, maybe she really has really picked up a lot of knowledge about Russia from being governor. Alaskastan is all sorts of messed up!
Again, another Alaskan speaking. I don't know the law, but the courts would probably hold up the interim appointment for a while, possibly until the election anyway. Also, I don't think Palin could appoint herself. I think she'd have to resign, then Parnell (Lt. Gov) would have to appoint her. However, I don't think she'd win as she has been exposed as a bit of a crazy. Before now, such things didn't matter, as she wasn't open about it, and no one cared. Now that it's in the open, we care.
I can think of a fourth possibility, but don't know if this is still possible: straight ticket voting. If there is a tick here for the Republicans, Stevens would ride in on Palin's coattails just because voters wanted to get it over with.
Any Alaskans know if straight ticket was/is available?
"unless the coming vote is completely different than that already counted (highly unlikely)"
Why is that so unlikely? If there are votes unaccounted for they're going to be specific types of votes - either in specific locations or only early votes or only late votes, any of which would be expected to potentially be "completely different than that already counted". If there are 100,000 uncounted votes in New Orleans, you really think that wouldn't change the results?
"The exit polls in Alaska seem to have got the presidential result spot-on, so whatever happened was accurately picked up."
Exit polls are reweighted after the fact to match up to final results. Hence, the exit poll numbers that you see now will ALSO change as new votes are tabulated.
The votes have not all been counted, people! Stop making declarative statements as if they had.
From the Alaska Board of Elections:
- Repeal Temporary Appointment of U.S. Senator
This measure would repeal state law by which the Governor makes a temporary appointment of a person to fill a U.S. Senate vacancy until a special or regular election can be held. Under existing law the seat would remain vacant until the election is certified and the senate meets. Existing law provides that a special election will be held within 60 to 90 days to fill a vacancy unless the vacancy occurs within 60 days of the primary election for that seat. This initiative does not change that provision.
Voted on 11/2/04
165,017 For
131,821 Against
This is why I can't live through Palin with a national voice anymore:
***UPDATE*** Fox News Chief Political Correspondent Carl Cameron appeared on The O'Reilly Factor tonight and described in much fuller detail the truly astonishing behavior, and lack of knowledge, of Sarah Palin on the campaign trail, as well as the nasty infighting that resulted from, some would say, Palin's "diva" behavior. (Earlier today, Palin said reports of her "diva" behavior and any tension within the campaign were "absolutely false.")
Cameron relates how McCain aides were terrified of Palin's lack of knowledge of international, national, and even basic civic issues. Cameron reports that Palin was unfamiliar with the concept of "American exceptionalism," and that not only did she not understand that Africa was a continent rather than a single country but also that during debate prep Palin was unable to name all the nations in North America.
Palin was apparently a nightmare for her campaign staff to deal with. She refused preparation help for her interview with Katie Couric and then blamed her staff, specifically Nicole Wallace, when the interview was rightly panned as a disaster. After the Couric interview, Palin turned nasty with her staff and began to accuse them of mishandling her. Palin would view press clippings of herself in the morning and throw "tantrums" over the negative coverage. There were times when she would be so nasty and angry that her staff was reduced to tears.
Here is the problem. The ballot measure in Alaska attempts to repeal part of the law but not another part about appointments. It is possible that this invlidates the whole law and then it goes back to the U.S. Constitution and the governor appoints, which is what both the ste law and the ballot measure did not want.
http://www.elections.alaska.gov/2004oep/bm/measure_4.pdf
Hey Nate, step away from the analysis for a little while - there are cold beers with your name on them at a bar somewhere there in Chicago. You've more than earned it! Everything about this site - analysis, commentary, and photography - has been incredible. Chapeau.
Anyone know a good source of info on what Dean & the DNC (and now, Obama), are doing to make sure none of the senate seats in question are stolen? I HOPE they have a task force already on this.
"Convicted felons are the new black, it would seem." Too, too funny.
You were just named most accurate pollster for popular vote by Rachel on MSNBC!
Thanks for helping keep me sane through these last long weeks.
stevens only won the early vote in 6 out of alaska's 40 districts (1, 6 13, 14, 15, 16)
9507 early votes remain to count - only 2387 of those in districts stevens won the early vote
that alone could make up the gap
7694 of 46156 absentee ballots are in the districts stevens won the early vote FWIW
Brad:
All that it states (the part about it not appealing part of the law) is that the election still takes place at the same time (60-90 days after the vacancy is created). This in no way invalidates the ballot measure. The ballot measure was passed, therefore the law stating that an appointment can be made is repealed, and the ballot measure (that no temporary appointment can be made) is the ne law
You want polling irregularities? I'll give 'em to you!
Alaska U.S. House Seat:
Research 2000 - 10/30 Berkowitz (D) 53% Young (R) 44%
Election Result 11/5 Berkowitz 44% Young 52%
Somebody shoot me now.
wv: teduli - incredulity that Uncle Ted might win.
scindie-
That was the intent of the ballot measure, but that is not what it says. Go to the link. It is poorly drafted and unclear. The Supreme Court could get around the whole problem by just calling the ballot measure vague and unclear to get around the problem too, but this is a mess. Several outcomes possible, and there sure is a "way" I could the U.S. Suopreme Court getting this on appeal and just saying screw it, go with the constitution until you alaskans figure it out.
I want to know what the hell is going on in North Carolina.
scindie-
A good lawyer would recite the exact language being redacted, and restate the law with the redacted portion. You are making a judge broadly blue pencil a law, they hate to do that.
NC just seems a close election to me, no real reports of fraud or anything and the government seems to be very open about what is happening.
Brad:
I posted the exact text of the ballot measure above. It is not unclear by any means.
"This measure would repeal state law by which the Governor makes a temporary appointment of a person to fill a U.S. Senate vacancy until a special or regular election can be held."
Pretty self-explanatory. The old law says that a governor can appoint a temporary senator. This clause takes away that power.
"Under existing law the seat would remain vacant until the election is certified and the senate meets. "
That, according to the provisions of the existing law, the new ballot measure would mean that there would be a Senate vacancy.
"Existing law provides that a special election will be held within 60 to 90 days to fill a vacancy unless the vacancy occurs within 60 days of the primary election for that seat. This initiative does not change that provision."
The election to fill the vacancy still is held in the same time frame as under the previously existing law.
And that's it. There is nothing ambiguous about that text.
I think Begich is going to win the Alaska race, and that Nate's second explanation is the most likely. There is no particular reason to think the absentee vote is mostly rural, and in any event Rural Alaska is traditionally Democrat. Begich carried most of the Bush precincts.
The reason the polls were off in my opinion is that they weren't tracking the Senate race daily, and just missed changes in opinion the last 2 or 3 days. Stevens only had 4 days in the state and he used them well. There was a barrage of ads making the case he will win on appeal and that he's been victimized by a Justice Department run amok. A lot of Alaskans, unfortunately, want to believe him. (He may in fact have good appeals points.)
Although Begich didn't really push early voting, the Obama campaign did and Obama voters would have also been voting for Begich. A lot of people I know, including myself and my wife, voted early (and straight D).
Interesting:
Newsweek editors don't think Palin should pursue the Alaska senate seat if she is aiming for the WH.
"One thing our experts agree on is that Palin should not appoint herself to Ted Stevens' seat, should Alaska's senior senator—convicted last week in a federal corruption trial be forced out. First, it would make her a Washington "insider", thus diluting her charm. Second, with the exception of 2008, Americans rarely elect a senator to the White House. So Palin, keep on being governor. Get re-elected in 2010."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/167473
there is an saying in Seattle that people only go to Alaska to run from something, usually themselves.
I go a job offer in AK and a person i didnt get along with begged me not to go-that it was hell. if your dont wish Ak on someone you dont like well.. anyway im glad i didnt go.
Best part of that Fox interview is O'Reilly still trying to defend Palin: "OK, so she didn't know what countries were in North America, or that Africa wasn't a single country. I mean, given a little time she could learn those things."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/palin-didnt-know-africa-i_n_141653.html
WV=singband. A lot of that was going on last night
I like your style, Randall.
That guy kept ranting on that thread. Awesome.
Schaden-whutta?
Re: AK turnout--my brother, a poll watcher for Begich in Anchorage--reports that voting was heavy in the morning and never picked up again, not at lunch, not a 4, not at 6, and by 7 he realized everyone was home eating dinner. A Republican friends of his in a suburban polling station reported the same pattern.
Of course 5 PM in Anchorage is 9 PM Eastern, so the the outcome was starting to be clear.
Might argue for going to all vote-by-mail as Oregon (and most of Washington) does now.
the dem senate challenger in '04 did pretty well with the absentee vote. i don't feel like adding it up though to see if he outperformed the day-of vote.
That was my thinking too. I think Biden is losing credibility with Obama over the slip ups.
I would like some of what you're smoking, please...
Cameron relates how McCain aides were terrified of Palin's lack of knowledge of international, national, and even basic civic issues. Cameron reports that Palin was unfamiliar with the concept of "American exceptionalism," and that not only did she not understand that Africa was a continent rather than a single country but also that during debate prep Palin was unable to name all the nations in North America.
Palin was apparently a nightmare for her campaign staff to deal with. She refused preparation help for her interview with Katie Couric and then blamed her staff, specifically Nicole Wallace, when the interview was rightly panned as a disaster. After the Couric interview, Palin turned nasty with her staff and began to accuse them of mishandling her. Palin would view press clippings of herself in the morning and throw "tantrums" over the negative coverage. There were times when she would be so nasty and angry that her staff was reduced to tears.
Interesting.
As a liberal, I seldome agree with the Republican social conservative wingnuts. But in this case I agree: Palin 2012! I think an ignoramus proven national laughing-stock who disapproves of abortion rights even in cases of rape or incest would be an ideal person for the Republicans to nominate to try to stop Obama from getting a second term
:)
Don't know if this has been posted yet but I'll just post for FYI reasons...I'm not about to read through 90 something comments, lol.
Should Steven's win re-election, and the Senate tells him to get the hell out. The Gov gets to appoint a replacement (and the replacement would be voted on by the people in two years as a madate to serve another 4)
No, Palin cannot appoint herself to the position. However she can resign as Gov. which would make her LT. GOV. the GOV. The newly elected GOV could than appoint Palin as the Senator of AK to replace Stevens since she technically would no longer hold any public posistion. (i.e. a backroom deal involving a trade of Neiman Marcus clothes?)
This has happened once before in American Politics. (excluding the clothes of course, lol)
WE can agree to disagree scindie. That ain't the way we do it in the lower 48. I linked to a PDF of the entire ballot initiative above.
Also, it is possible that the ballot initiative invalidated the law. How? Well, constitutionally it could be found that the legislature has the right to pass a law under the U.S. Constitution, and they did. That law was then uncostitutionally modified by ballot initiative, and the outcome could be to throw out the entire law.
I can promise you all these arguments will be made in court. The general approach is to brief all the arguments you think have any shot at winning, and then see if the court agrees with one theory. This is a mess, but no worse than Palin herself.
Re: AK turnout--my brother, a poll watcher for Begich in Anchorage--reports that voting was heavy in the morning and never picked up again, not at lunch, not a 4, not at 6, and by 7 he realized everyone was home eating dinner. A Republican friends of his in a suburban polling station reported the same pattern.
We had the same pattern at my polling place and a lot of others in Virginia. I think people had heard there might be long lines all day, so they lined up at opening to be sure they'd get through. (Our overall turnout was high, even without the usual end-of-the-day rush.)
redshift-
Biden has not been impressive, it would take a ot of hash to see those speeches as good. He did do well at the VP debate.
Biden is also unlikely to run according to the reports I have read, meaning that the dems ARE likely to get someone into the VP slot next round to run as an incumbent.
Seems to me the most likely explanation is that the polls were conducted mostly soon after the verdict and people were indicating that they wouldn't vote for him.
Then they realized that their choices aren't to have Begich or Stevens in the Senate, but to have Begich or another election. If I'm a Republican, I take my chances in a special election after Stevens is kicked out.
I think the polls didn't reflect the time it took for people to figure this out.
@Redshift
Ditto in navy-blue Amherst, MA. When the polls opened at 7am we had a maybe three dozen people lined up and I thought we'd be in for a long day.
But after that it was rarely empty, but there was never more thane six or seven people waiting, and that was usually because a bus arrived from UMass.
Of course my shift ended at 4pm, and it was looking like things were going to start getting much busier.
WV = urgant. I thot that waz urgant. You betcha!
Video of Fox shredding Palin, discussed above.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/243187.php
Justin,
The Lt. Gov. would then be the Gov. and the Gov. cannot appoint anyone, so that wouldn't help Palin and she would have resigned for nothing. Unless I'm missing something in your argument.
I still have my Sarah Palin website (www.sarahpalinrumorcheck.blogspot.com) which I started largely because of my love for and knowledge of Alaska.
I don't think Sarah Palin could be a serious threat to Barack Obama in 2012, especially if Barack lives up to his potential as he wants to. 2016 is a long ways away and I doubt the United States would even consider following a man like Barack Obama with Sarah Palin in any fashion. Worst case scenario, Ted Stevens wins, can't work in the Senate, and she steps in. But I think Ted Stevens will lose.
Part of what I was writing about at my Sarah Palin website and my blogs was a 14 year old girl who was raped in a Pasadena hospital usually known for exceptional care, but lately slacking terribly, as staffers slept. As it so happens, the real life girl in my story, Tamar, has an excellent legal case against that hospital and we would be interested in hearing from attorneys. I'm also homeless in Los Angeles but searching for an apartment and would be interested in anybody that could help me with that who is an actual apartment owner (ceiling of $1155 currently.)
Like Barack Obama, I am hoping to make a difference-in my case through a very unusual love story, Cutting Confessions, I am tirelessly promoting (which partly takes place in the hospital mentioned above as well as Beverly Hills, Lake Havasu and the Las Vegas Strip. Barack began knocking on doors years ago and became the person he is today through hard work. I am hoping that the film, book (and possible Las Vegas show) I am writing touches people just as Barack Obama's tireless efforts have.
Please see the story and the other things I am talking about here:
www.cuttingconfessionsfilm.blogspot.com
www.myspace.com/370392338
@ Brad
I think its the latter, not the former. I just don't see Biden as a strong candidate for President in 2016; if you recall, in the primaries he received very little support.
Regarding the gaffes, yes he has made some, but I don't see any reason to believe that Obama is losing patience. I actually had a chance to hear Biden on Sunday and shake his hand and I can tell you he is a fantastic orator and will make a tremendous VP. I just don't think he can carry a national ticket on his own.
speaking of alaska, is there any word on which charity gets to score the neiman marcus loot?
wv: unrook. as in, after the elections, both campaigns unrooked their clothes to charity.
Maybe I have just heard too much Biden, and I hate the way he asks "questions" of Supreme Court nominees - a huge pet peeve with me so maybe I do not see him as most.
Redshift- yes, same thing happened in VA. My precinct of 4000+ had about 2,000 voters come through by noon and an eventual same day total of near 3,000 (and about 400 absentee). At 6:45 my precinct chair teasingly bet that we'd only get 3 more voters because of how the 'evening rush' turnout was doing. We got 4.
Also on the North America question at first I was willing to cut some slack because there are questions on whether Central America (Nicauraugua, Belize, Guatamala, El Salvador, Hondorus, Panama, Costa Rica) counts with some cultural/regional groupings including them but strict geographical/geological terms excluding them leading to potential confusion. Then I saw it was paired with the Africa question and that it wasn't which nations are in "North America" but which nations are in NAFTA. The US, Canada and Mexico- how freaking hard can it be.
Brad:
We will agree to disagree, but I just wanted to post a refutation once, and then I will drop the point entirely. Feel free to either rebut my arguments yourself, or leave it as is, but I wont respond again (in the interest of not going in circles).
First, I am well aware of the link you posted. If you notice, my cutting and pasting (twice now) of the text, directly from the AK BOE, matches the text of the ballot question exactly. The rest of the ballot you posted is merely explanation, which also supports what I'm saying, but that's irrelevant to the question at hand.
In theory, you can make ANY argument. That doesn't make it relevant or correct. Sure, someone could argue unconstitutionality of the ballot initiative, but they'd be dead wrong. The passage from the Constitution (posted somewhere above) leaves the decision on how to fill a vacancy up to states, and only defaults to the Constitution's standard if the state legislature does not explicitly do otherwise.
Ballot initiatives are a valid method in Alaska (obviously, since they are used) of changing a law in Alaska. As such, there is no Constitutional standing to challenge what is a legal alteration to the law under Alaska's laws. As such, the repeal of this provision is entirely valid, and there is no way, in my opinion, that it would be in any way seriously threatened in a court.
ps. just noticed the title of this post. it should be either what in the world" or "what the hell" -- what (the hell) is "what in the hell"?
(just detoxing)
oh and wv: hedisi. an electoral system that allows two million votes to go missing, and needs two weeks to settle, is just hedisi.
But... what would make the Democratic voters more complacent this year than any year? Alaska has a 40-year trend of picking Republicans. I don't see how that explains a 14 percent drop in voter turnout from last election. Also, that 14 percent of total turnout is a quite higher fraction of Democrats, if we are blaming them alone, Democrats being the smaller party in Alaska.
Why are you even trying to analyze this Nate? The only explanation is that people in Alaska are batshit crazy.
"I just don't see Biden as a strong candidate for President in 2016; if you recall, in the primaries he received very little support."
On November 20 Joe Biden will turn 66. In 2016 he would be 74. If McCain was considered "too old" by many, Joe would be even older. This year was his last shot at getting elected Pres and he dropped out early. He was never picked as a possible "elected" successor but for experience, foreign affairs, etc. The Dems will need to groom a candidate or two for 2012.
"Ballot initiatives are a valid method in Alaska (obviously, since they are used) of changing a law in Alaska. As such, there is no Constitutional standing to challenge what is a legal alteration to the law under Alaska's laws. "
There is something called supremacy in the law - where a federal law (under some circumstances) trumps a state law and the constitution trumps both federal and state laws. It does not matter what is Alaska thinks the law is if the law is unconsitutional itself or was passed unconstitutionally.
I have refuted your arguments, you just don't seem to understand the refuation.
Let's move on.
@Andy JS:
100,000 is just about right, believe it or not. That's roughly how many votes our (republican, up for re-election in a tight race) supervisor of elections is ADMITTING have not been counted. Well over half our early voting machines did not work and 56% of us voted early - with the early vote well-known to be slanting heavily towards Obama/the democrats. PLus there are those two nearly 100% black precincts that had no working machines last night.... It's completely horrendous. I am not even slightly exaggerating - this is all documented and all over our local MSM.
wv = tuang: The sound our supervisor of elections' balls would make if I ever had a chance to get ahold of them with some pliers.
I hope they pick Schweitzer for VP in 2012.
"Maybe I have just heard too much Biden, and I hate the way he asks "questions" of Supreme Court nominees - a huge pet peeve with me so maybe I do not see him as most."
I agree. Joe Biden is still proud of himself for keeping Bork out of the USSC, not because there was anything to suggest that Bork wasn't qualified, but rather because he didn't like how Bork might vote. I hate that shit. If Scalia and Ginsberg can be confirmed almost unanimously (the most conservative and liberal members of the court), then no one should be denied based solely on ideology.
bobnsj:
so what's your take on Rahm Emanuel then? Is Chief of Staff a stepping stone to 2012 VP and 2016 Pres???
Regarding the gaffes, yes he has made some, but I don't see any reason to believe that Obama is losing patience. I actually had a chance to hear Biden on Sunday and shake his hand and I can tell you he is a fantastic orator and will make a tremendous VP. I just don't think he can carry a national ticket on his own.
He has a lot of experience in foriegn policy (Chairman of Foreign Commity for 6 years) and interal policy too. Truthfully he rivals McCain. He's a very sharp tack, it's when he goes "social" that he tends to forget where he is and says silly stuff. "Stand Up Chuck" being the perfect example.
I don't think he's great as electable figurehead material. He'll also be 73 years old by the time 2016 rolls around.
Alaska can go to hell together with Wyoming
Can anyone give me an update about the presidential race in Missouri and Georgia and whether or not there is a chance that Obama can still win these contests when provisional or early votes are tabulated? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. I hear there are millions of votes not counted so I take that Obama can hit the 70 million mark? I hope he passes G H W Bush's 53.4%. I hear Obama has 53% and 7% ahead of McCain now.
So Republicans are the new 'blacks', nate? Fuck you, Nate. With a silver spoon. And a picture of Sean 'Obamalover' Quinn engraved on that silver spoon handle.
Brad said...
Maybe I have just heard too much Biden, and I hate the way he asks "questions" of Supreme Court nominees - a huge pet peeve with me so maybe I do not see him as most.
He's a lawyer at heart. Applying for Supreme Court Justice isn't like applying for the drive-thru mic at McDonalds. Any judge lacking the capability of following his wording of questions has no business sitting on the bench of the highest court in the land.
Yes, I'm looking at you Clarence.
Now where's my polling update?
There was a similar, and very sad, failure of turnout in San Francisco. Prop. 8 (anti-gay-marriage) passed statewide by 500,000 votes. But turnout in S.F. was only 50.5%, because everybody knew Obama would carry Calif. by more than +20%. The other 49.5% of S.F. registered voters was nearly 250,000 people.
.
Turnout varied considerably among California counties, but it was fairly low in many for such a hot presidential election year. The people working to defeat Prop. 8 could have had it, if they had mounted a bigger ground game for it. Just sad.
Clarence Thomas asks questions?
Word Verification: comies
I was thinking that the most recent polling came right after the conviction when there was a significant down-tick. Then there were just a few days for people to hear his side of it and that he was going to fight it. And that was enough to carry him...
@Andrew
"so what's your take on Rahm Emanuel then? Is Chief of Staff a stepping stone to 2012 VP and 2016 Pres???"
Unless Biden screws up somehow, it would be hard to boot him from the ticket in 2012. It would also be hard for Emanuel to hang on as CoS for 8 years--it's a killer job. I could see him going back to Illinois at some point, run for Governor and then Pres in 2016.
yiannis said...
Alaska can go to hell together with Wyoming.
Don't forget Utah and Oklahomey!
Except for the National Parks the USA would be better without ALL of them!
Also, let's not forget:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/todays-polls-1019.html#comment-6247341420195265026
"Libs, if B. Hussein Obama wins NC I will eat my hat on YouTube."
I want to see this.
I suspect among other things you'll never see, including this, is Wrong Wing ConspiRACIST ever showing here again to choke down his crow.
Regarding Stevens, I think Alaska simply decided to tell the US to fuck off. Why? Because they can. They're Alaskans. "What're ya gonna do? Evict us? And all our oil? The hell you will! Just give us our damn bridge already while you're at it."
Yes, the politics of resentment, writ large.
andrew said...
Clarence Thomas asks questions?
Joe Biden was head of the Senate committe vetting him for the SC. There were squeals of "foul" when Biden asked him wordy, somewhat complicated questions and Thomas had trouble following him. Biden had even dumbed them down as had been previously agreed to.
P.S. It wasn't just Biden out to submarine Thomas. He also gave Thomas a bit of a free pass by not making public the 2nd and 3rd sexual harrasment complaints about Thomas, in the name of not turning things into a 3-ring circus. This is something he reportedly later regretted enough to take up some woman's causes in his role as Senator.
The traffic on this site is waaaaaay down. I guess people need a day off after "Obama Day".
G'night all.
Black voters are 30% of Louisiana, not 40%.
Obama has not lost faith in Biden. Jesus, not even President yet and you people are wondering if Obama has lost faith in him. Firstly, Biden is a great speaker. His "the silence was deafening" speech was amazing. Secondly, he wasn't picked because of his public speaking ability. Obama wants him for his experience and knowledge behind closed doors.
We need to find someone who worked on the Obama campaign's Alaskan effort and see how heavily they were encouraging early/absentee voting.
I worked in an Obama office in CA but the only states they worked on in the time I was there were FL, IN, CO and NM.
Not sure how it will affect anything (probably not much), but it seems almost sure than Bush will pardon Stevens on his way out the door. On a bipartisan note, look for Bush to also pardon/find a path for Obama's aunt.
Stevens is such a case for hubris. The charges were roiling for months. He's 85. He could have retired. Again, Bush would have pardoned him. Palin or Parnell would have beaten Begich. But, no. Ted ran on his own vanity.
Damn stupid of Alaska, too. Two backbench Senators from a deeply minority party == jack squat for pork. Why did South Dakota re-elect Johnson (the stroke victim)? Why Daschle all those years? Why Harkin in Iowa? Simple. Pork. The smartest grant-loving states send one Senator from each side.
I actually think that the Palin in the Senate would pretty much be great for those who don't want her elected. Would be interesting to see how should would react being just one of 100 and among the lowest ranking members.
Hi Nate - Love your site and what you've done this election cycle. I am a voting Democrat in Anchorage, AK, and I thought I'd chime in on your suppositions.
First - I have to doubt that your first hypothesis is the case. Obama, Begich, and Berkowitz supporters were fired up here just like everywhere else. There was a lot of energy to cut the McCain predicted margin amongst this group. Also - though Palin supporters were fired up, as you referenced, turnout was way down this year - not a shining endorsement of a Palin get-out-the-vote effect - she has also ruffled feathers up here, and McCain has not been popular - he lost the primary to Mitt Romney! It is hard to consider complacency amongst Dem voters being a factor this year. The fact that the Dems picked up seats in the state legislature also point against this.
Your second hypothesis is intriguing. I agree that a lot of the early votes Fri - Mon that have not been counted yet are Dem supporters. I can personally count a number of them that voted this weekend. And the absentee ballots - hard to say - we have a strong military population that could be in there, but we also have a transient population that could mix up those votes. Not sure a ton of those are rural voters.
Finally, on your third hypothesis - you are right that corruption has been a theme up here, but in my personal experience and hearing from others the election up here was handled professionally and efficiently.
A last note on the margins that Young and Stevens gained versus the polls - there is a strong cultural attitude up here that we are different, and those who fight for Alaska carry a lot of weight. Sometimes the fact that outsiders attack "one of Alaska's own" will rally people. This is also a likely factor skewing the polls versus the results. they may have been rationally disgusted by the corruption taints of Stevens and Young, but once in the booth voted for the defenders of Alaska.
Personally, it shocks me every two years when Don Young gets re-elected by such a margin, but there it is.
Anyhoo - my two cents on the uniqueness of Alaskan voters.
I vote for option 3--isn't this what's happening in GA, too? A whole buttload of the early vote simply aren't being counted by the Republican Secretaries of State?
Hell with the House and the Senate seats. We need to target ousting ALL Republican SoSs so that we can start moving back to honest elections....
there are national parks in oklahoma? I guess it's hard to justify getting rid of them since it's in the middle of the country...(geographically)
Looks like fivethirtyeight is ACTUALLY a conservative leaning website! Nate gave Indiana to Republicans in his prediction. Take that right wingers who call this a liberal website.
Congrats NATE on your spectacular predictions and the shoutout you got on rachel maddows show.
As an rural Alaskan Obama supporter, I'd like to share a few more observations.
1) Knocking on doors doesn't work in small town Alaska because everyone knows each other and many dems here are 'closet democrats'. This was summed up best by one supporter who told me; "I'm not going to go knock on my old boyfriend's door and talk to him about electing Obama". (Can you imagine what would have happened to the proud owner of an Obama yard sign in Wasilla?)
2. Alaskans honestly think that dems will take away their guns and hunting rights. The Obama campaign failed to get any contrary message across, so a lot of people just voted red across the board as they always do, for exactly that reason. Begich did attempt to win people over with his pro-ANWR stance, but this bring me to point 3.
3. Do not underestimate the power of PORK. I would be hard pressed to name an Alaskan who has not benefited from Uncle Ted's gifts to Alaska. We were given the choice between a man who, despite clear moral flaws, can bring home the bacon and a man who, despite a high school education, can talk a pretty good talk as mayor of Anchorage. The bottom line is that this was a 'lesser of two evils' choice, and when Alaskans really sat down and thought about it, they couldn't say no to cash over hope.
Sorry America. It's still really pretty here.
Pretty until they get their way with ANWR....
wv- emplabl, It's seems highly emplabl that alaskans would vote for a convicted felon
I hope Nate gives us a complete pollster analysis soon. In the mean time, here's the swing state results vs. the final Rasmussen polls:
Rasmussen margin (Actual margin)
CO +4 (+7)
FL -1 (+2)
IN -3 (+1)
NV +4 (+12)
OH 0 (+4)
NH +4 (+10)
MO 0 (0)
VA +4 (+5)
NC -1 (+1)
MT -4 (-3)
Obama did better than the final Rasmussen poll in every swing state except Missouri (which ended up tied in both the final poll and the final result).
There must be turnout data in Alaska comparing the last two hours of polling in 2008 and 2004. In 2004, there wasn't an early call on the race (if I'm remembering right), since Ohio was so close.
I think it is probably simply that: the most likely folks to vote at the end of the day would be city dwellers, since their trips to and from the polling place probably tend to be shorter than for rural voters. These city voters--the most likely in the state to vote Dem--probably felt there was no point to rushing dinner and/or to rush to the polls, since the networks had all proclaimed Obama the winner two hours before closing.
Tragic, since if they had thought about it for two seconds, they would have realized that they were handing Stevens and Young victories.
Electing a convicted felon?
You stay classy Alaska.
@ Fact Simile:
Interesting view from the ground there, never really thought why exactly they would do that. While the Dem doesn't appear to be particularly qualified, too bad for the senate seat.
If there really are droves of Dem-leaning Alaskans who didn't bother going to the polls, it seems like they could be found (and shaken awake) for the likely Begich v. Palin special election.
I'm still dubious there are that many.
Guys, Ted Stevens is a convicted felon. You think he wouldn't do all he can to get himself elected? There's gotta be electoral fraud. The only question is how effective it was.
I'm one of those uncounted absentee ballots -- so I can promise there's a least one vote to get Stevens out :-)
BUT, to address the issue about the lower turn out, you're completely forgetting about Alaska in 2004. That was the year that we tried to knock out Frank Murkowski's daughter that he appointed to US Senate, Lisa Murkowski. Former governor Tony Knowles was the opponent and THAT was the big race in Alaska, not Kerry/Bush. We canvased and pulled out voters like Alaska has never seen. This year couldn't possibly have come close -- I would be surprised if there wasn't a huge drop.
Also apropos is that according to the polls Knowles had been favored a slight win in that race as well, but lost fairly solidly. I suspect you'll find that Don Young is correct, Alaska polls are consistently biased towards Democrats. I am not at all surprised by this result, although I'm certainly saddened by it.
Should be mentioned too that absentee ballots leaned further in favor of Lisa Murkowski in 2004, I would think the same thing applies here. Stevens will win.
Jeffrey
"I hope Nate gives us a complete pollster analysis soon."
It's funny that some pretty crappy pollsters ended up doing alright. For one, I was shocked as how close ARG was in their final polls. Of course, the final ARG polls were quite different than some of their earlier polls, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they cooked the books a bit. Still, they seemed to be almost as accurate as anybody. PPP also did very well, but that was less of a surprise. They are a great pollster and I love how they release so much information about their polls and results.
1. Republicans were far more enthusiastic for Bush than McCain. This enthusiasm difference could push down the turnout for a red state. Also, there have been accusations of shenanigans about the 2004 vote being too high.
2. Polls don't work in Alaska. Ivan Moore doesn't reach people out commercial fishing on the coast, or people out subsistence hunting for moose, or people who only speak Yupik, or crazy survivalists who think pollsters are CIA commienazis trying to spy on them. That so many Alaskans are unaffiliated with a political party speaks to how little they care about the horse race aspect - they are unlikely to heed a pollster. So the pollster only gets the transplants from the Lower 48 and the city-civilized. This is especially true for conservatives, who are more likely to take offense to the Lower 48's perceptions (and "convictions" hehe) of Alaska politics being corrupt.
3. The questionable ballots aren't likely due to corruption, but the simple half-assed nature of the way everything is done in Alaska. Folks move and don't update their location, or they move and try to update their location multiple times but the Division of Elections doesn't have their act together. So they end up voting a "questioned ballot".
4. A disproportionately large number of absentee ballots are from Southeast Alaska (the Panhandle), which is "Region I" to most government departments. The Panhandle tends to lean to the left, particularly Juneau. In Juneau (and possibly elsewhere), Begich/Democrat people were canvassing way back in primaries getting people to sign up for absentee ballots for all elections, which yours truly did and voted on.
5. Low voter information state.
Conclusion: Begich will win and Berkowitz will get close.
"Alaska is a provincial state with some history of corruption, and Democrats ought to be making sure that too many of their ballots haven't been disqualified."
Nate, you now hold the "World's Record for Understatement."
Everyone knows Alaska is barely a member of the Union, and has a long history of crime and corruption. In the details of "Trooper-Gate" it was revealed that Wasilla is the "meth-amphetamine" capitol of the world, and that the state is in the top percentile for RAPE AND INCEST.
Alaska OUGHT to launch an in-depth investigation into elections fraud. If for no other reason that just to combat the frontier image bestowed upon it by it's "Wasilla Hillbillie" governor and her brood of campaign shoplifters.
Still, your cautious language adds charm to your hi-tech media image.
P.S. Glad you've gone back to wearing the glasses, it's really... "you."
P.S.S. Loved the coverage with Dan Rather, it was light years ahead of the competition.
Another Alaskan here.
First of all, Palin won't run for Senate. Right now, she's at the top of the local dung pile, and being a governor is a better platform than senator for running for president.
As others have said 1) it is very difficult to poll the native villages in Alaska... just impossible really. 2) Stevens was finally here to start campaigning right at the end, and Young too was silent (to save money I guess) right up until the end. 3) There could be a lot of democratic votes tied up in the absentee, early vote, and questioned ballots. I can see all of these as possible, and possibly, re-inforcing arguments.
What I can't understand is low turnout. I've never seen the Democratic offices here bustle like this election, although I know that a lot of them were making calls to battleground states for Obama... maybe we forgot to take care of our own. I also thought people were excited to vote for Palin. It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't intend to let go of this until there is some explanation. I voted early, and I will check to make sure that my vote was counted.
wv: piliz -- 3.1415 times Liz.
Dear Alaska,
We regret to inform you your state has proven itself to be at minimum 50% total f*#cking bonkers ... first Gov 'I don't know Africa is a continent' Palin and now Senator 'chief federal earmark teat suckler felon' Stevens and Rep 'junior federal earmark teat suckler soon to be felon' Young. We were going to ask you to please cede from the US. To take your environment posioning oil and natural gas, your insane f*#cktard politics and your "I can see Russia from my house" Governor and get packing. But we have decided instead to trade you for Iceland, it was a nice run but I think we are trading up. Iceland gave us Bjork, you gave us Governor "You Betcha". Case closed. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Sincerely,
The Lower 48
The 4th possibility is that the corrupt Alaska Republicans stole the election.
They knew with the level of interest in this years contest, and the obsessive following of polls by huge numbers of internet-sters they could not steal places like Ohio.
But they could practice wholesale theft of the vote in far away Alaska.
Just offering one more option. :0
So Rasmussen had a Republican lean of 3.0 points on average in its swing state polls. For comparison, here are the final PPP polls vs. actual results.
PPP margin (Actual margin)
CO +10 (+7)
FL +2 (+2)
IN +1 (+1)
NV +4 (+12)
OH +2 (+4)
MO +1 (0)
VA +6 (+5)
NC +1 (+1)
MT +1 (-3)
That is an average Republican lean of just 0.1 points. So despite the dismissal of PPP by Republicans and RCP, their swing state polls were much closer than the Rasmussen polls.
Another point about Stevens and Begich...
Sometimes, it's better to have the enemy that you know, rather than a ally that you don't. Let's see, what are Begich's priorities? Oh, yes, drill in ANWR, protect gun-owner's rights, etc. Actually, on the issues, he's not much different than Stevens. I was always a bit worried that he might actually convince other Democrats to drill, baby, drill, in Alaska. A Stevens win is not really the end of the world, and Young has been such an ineffective jerk for years that he's pretty harmless.
And for those that want to kick us out, I've never forgiven Florida for 2000. I simply refused to even travel to that state and give it one penny of my money. I was hoping a big tidal wave would wash it from our shores. Now, perhaps I'll forgive them. Perhaps, someday, you'll forgive us. Anyway, to be a greenie here, you have to be REALLY green, and stand up for it, not like those latte-sipping Seattlites. I'll stay here, and perhaps someday we'll go blue like VA and NC.
wv: supesp -- an incredible ability to read someone's mind
The 4th possibility and the most likely one IMO is indeed voter fraud. Put together AK's reputation for corruption and the knowledge that there was massive corruption in many states in the 2004 Presidential election (this has been widely documented, folks - it is fact) and it's not hard to believe.
It looks like the same thing happened in Georgia (where turnout was very suspiciously very low) (1) for the Presidential election and (2) for the Senate. (1) everyone seems to be overlooking, as it won't affect the overall result. But hey, there are a lot of very peed off Georgians over this. (2) has gone to a run-off, but this shouldn't be happening.
Alaskans are bat-shit insane. End of story.
"...there have been irregularities in the voting tally. Although this is the least likely possibility."
Given Alaska's highly dubious track record counting votes in past elections, I would say that "irregularities" is the MOST likely possibility. Wake up, Nate! Where have you been the past 8 years?
What I found interesting was how all of the polls started to converge on PEW after they released their final poll on the weekend. By the way, PEW got it right now two elections in a row.
wv: jummizar -- Ask Palin. She'll know which nation this is!
@Andrew
so what's your take on Rahm Emanuel then? Is Chief of Staff a stepping stone to 2012 VP and 2016 Pres???
It would be impossible for Emanuel to run as Obama's VP in 2012. The President and Vice President have to be from different states, and both Emanuel and Obama are from Illinois.
So, if you want a conspiracy theory about Alaska, how about this.
The lieutenant governor presides over the elections -- that's one of his main jobs. Well, Sean Parnell, our lieutenant governor, ran against Don Young in the primaries, and lost by just a few hundred votes. It would be pretty sweet for him if Stevens got kicked out of the Senate, then he could run in a special election and he'd likely beat any democrat, and he would easily be the front-runner republican. So, it would be in his interest to help Stevens win.
wv: vowetinn -- I'm not vowettin again for 2 years -- unless there's a special election in 60-90 days.
It would be impossible for Emanuel to run as Obama's VP in 2012. The President and Vice President have to be from different states, and both Emanuel and Obama are from Illinois.
I thought about that, but once he doesn't have to reside in Illinois to hold a congressional seat, Rahm could officially move to his DC-area residence, so that isn't actually an obstacle.
Guys, Ted Stevens is a convicted felon. You think he wouldn't do all he can to get himself elected? There's gotta be electoral fraud. The only question is how effective it was.
He's a corrupt senator who lined his own pockets, not a criminal mastermind. Taking bribes from people who really want to bribe you doesn't mean you or your people have any idea how to effectively rig an election.
This explanation requires some evidence beyond "something happened here and Stevens is a crook, QED."
USA Today ignores Nate:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-11-05-polling_N.htm?csp=34
That ass Palin is rigging the vote so she can get herself in the senate!!
Don't let them get away with this, please!
Hey, much kudos on getting recognized by Rachel Maddow for your uncannily accurate predictions this cycle. Now that politics is winding down, will you return to baseball statistics?
Lots of ballots out in Region 2, which is Anchorage.
I can confirm that the Begich campaign had a big GOTV effort focused on both absentee and early voting that really hammered last weekend, as I spent about 20 hours both phone banking and canvassing for it.
Also, Arkansas is either the most racist state in the US, or the most bitter that Hillary lost. Or both.
Well, here's our results:
We have 57 seats w/ Lieberman, and 56 without him.
Minnesota is headed for a recount, the final result had Coleman ahead by an insignificant margin of less than 500 votes. The recount will likely take a month or more, apparently.
Alaska is up in the air, because they're incredibly slow in counting, apparently.
Georgia is headed for a run-off.
Nate will probably never see this but another possibility exists in the AK Stevens debacle. Were absentee and early voters aware of Stevens' Conviction? If not, how would they have voted without that knowledge? How would they have voted with it?
I agree with the possibilities.
But I disagree that the thrid one is least likely.
And we have to be concerned.
Election reform must be complete in less than four years.
Addendum to AK comment earlier:
It's entirely possible (however unlikely) that voters know that Palin will be able to call the interrim election after Stevens is either expunged, expelled, or exonerarated. Hello Todd Palin for Senate.
Hey, don't scoff. It's happened before.
Michelle Obama 2016!
182 comments and no one's so much as used the word "tubes" yet? For shame. ;)
tubes. Happy now?
Well this is a good post.
Question: How did ye olde exquisite Obama grounde game look in Alaska? Did you get to evaluate it? I would imagine the terrain would present difficulties...
But more importantly: How about a little from column A, a little from column B, and a little from column C? A perfect storm of maybe Begich never defined himself adequately on top of these?
Another comment from an Alaskan. Because of a problem in the primary election where some early voters also voted in person and were "almost" double-counted, any ballot cast in person after last Thursday, October 30, is not going to be counted until they can figure out if those people also voted in person. I heard the lines in Anchorage were one- to two-hours long for early voting last week. Lots of ballots left to count, and I believe those would lean Democratic. As far as absentee ballots, lots of them go to snowbirds, who are usually somewhere warm for the winter by now (my parents, for example), vacationing working Alaskans (Hawaii and Mexico look pretty nice when it's 20 degrees), and college students (50% of Alaska's freshman leave the State for college). I don't think these are particularly skewed toward one party. I think the most likely explanation (notwithstanding the difficulty of polling statewide) is that the polls were done too far ahead of the races. Ted Stevens had heavy, heavy advertising and was in residence on all the conservative talk radio shows for the past couple of days. They made a convincing case that electing Ted, then putting up another Republican in the event of the appeals failing, was better than electing a Democrat. Even during the trial, lots of Alaskans were pretty skeptical that the dumpy cabin in Girdwood could have cost $200,000 MORE than the $160,000 Ted already spent. With the continued screw-ups by the government, Alaskans were also skeptical about Ted's ability to get a fair trial. As the national polls showed Obama with a likely victory, Alaskans got nervous about a democratic lock on the country, particularly with regard to ANWR and resource development. Alaskans also did not appreciate the heavy negative Democratic National Committee advertising, that Mark Begich did not exactly endorse, but did not denounce. Finally, in my case, I had planned to vote for Ted until the conviction, then decided to vote for Begich, but once in the voting booth, filled in the Stevens oval without even thinking and decided that asking for a new ballot after I'd waited in line for so long was going to be a pain, so I just left it. I did vote for Berkowitz, however, and am actually quite surprised that race was a far apart as it seems to be. I can't wait for our local pollsters to explain themselves - hard to believe anyone would hire them to help make any serious decisions after this performance.
http://www.adn.com/news/politics/story/580139.html
Local papers take. Seems everyone is asking the same question.
My answer is simple - "It is Alaska"
Combination of the doubt in the trial, the 'Palin effect', the fear of loosing the seat from the )R) column (the local party actively supported this) and the fact we are who we are as Alaskans.
I strongly disagree that D's were apathetic - we are a motivated bunch and saw this election as a REAL chance to throw 40 years of Republican rule out the door. I do think if palin was not on the ballot we would be sending 2 D's to DC...
We shall see if Begich can sneak this out - I too have a ballot sitting somewhere for Mark.
At least in my little area our Obama office was very active until the last day, I received a GOTV call and saw a very energized democratic party.
The fact that people were openly campaigning for Obama is quite an achievement for our little state. We are red as they get.
Do not throw our state out with the bath water...
Palin will not / can not appoint herself. Any R will win a special election. If Begich does not get the victory, there is not another chance until Lisa's seat comes up in 2010...
If the felon ends up winning, he will probably resign. Then Palin can pull a 'maverick' move. She can resign from the governorship, thus making Sean Parnell the governor with the instruction to make Palin the replacement senator. Palin will use this 4 years in the senate to make a play for the Whitehouse in 2012.
I think deep down, Palin really wants this to happen. I could not dislike any politician more.
Guys and Gals -
In your search for a reason for Begich and Berkowitz' loss you are overlooking the weather. Alaska had a cold, snowy, icy front hit on election day. When its cold outside, boomer age female Democrats stay inside. These are the core of the two Democrats' support. Strange as it sounds, think about it: the 50 - 70 year old "hip replacement" girls stay home when it is slippery out. It is a bankable phenomena here in Alaska. It also worked for Obama during the winter primaries against Hilary Clinton. When the weather was icy, snowy or had heavy rains, Obama won. When it was warn and sunny, Hilary won. Fortunately for Obama the weather was bad in many of the states on primary days last winter and his voters - younger - came out in all weather. Had the weather been better here inAlaska Begich would have won for sure and Berkowitz might have.
ThirdGenGlaskan has it right. I too was undecided until I went into the booth. Then for exactly the reasons that ThirdGenAlaskan writes, I filled in the Stevens bubble - and felt good doing so. I too voted for Berkowitz and am likewise stunned by the margin of his loss.
A quick story: On election night I was hanging out at an election party with one of my pollster buddies who had no dogs in these particular electoral battles. As he put on his tie and best suit and headed out the door to Election Central (no doubt preparing to be interviewed by the press for his projection on the race) he offered his prediction for the Begich/Stevens race: "14 percent margin" (for Begich) he opined. Another pollster friend challenged him: "7 percent" (margin for Begich). I hope neither of them shared their projections with the press before the numbers came in.
I am sick of hearing about Sarah Palin. Please Sarah, go away.
Last precincts in - Mark won them, new numbers are: Begich 103,337 (47%) to Stevens 106,594 (48%) 100% in. Estimate is 60 - 75 thousand yet to count. We are told 15% are from Juneau which I am trying to confirm. We won 64% of the vote in Juneau.
So I've been doing a lot of thinking about proposition 8 being passed in California. I think the democrats need to put a ballot initiative asking whether or not gay couples can visit one another in the hospital. In other words, if this is passed then one way of inacting it would be to allow civil unions. If not then the democrats could go one by one putting the rights that married people have but that homosexuals don't on the ballot until every right is shared or until civil unions are passed.
Does anyone think this could work?
Dan Rather, MSNBC, Charlie rose ... Nate has had some high profile exposure, but now he's truly hit ...
THE BIG TIME!
http://wonkette.com/404198/so-which-pollsters-live-which-will-be-killed#more-404198
Wonkette: "“Nate Silver taught numbers how to fuck.”
SHERWICK said...
I am sick of hearing about Sarah Palin. Please Sarah, go away.
She is going away ... to the country of Africa ... to meet the prime minister, Buck Owens.
SHERWICK said...
I am sick of hearing about Sarah Palin. Please Sarah, go away.
Soon, very soon. She's getting a bit of a ganking on Fox right now. Oh sure O'Reilly is still making excuses for her but the blood's in the water. She's got to know she'll have to keep her head down for some time for people forget (time she might well use to read a book or two and maybe even pick up a newspaper or something).
She'll be back too. But she'll be relagated to the Republican backwaters because, for he foreseeable future, she's got zippo outside the "base".
I intellectual (e.g. rich) repub circles she has no credibility. She might be able to raise money from her evangelical base, but even that is unlikely as Dobson and those folks have to be embarrassed.
What are the coming changes to 538? I saw no announcement.
They can be from the same state, the only issue is that states electors in the electoral college. That said, both Bush and Cheney resided in Texas when Cheney was picked, Cheney just changed his residence to Wyoming or Montana.
Did a head roll because of the Obama's aunt story? Heads of Immigration steps down, and she is a crazy Bushie...
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/myers_stepping_down_as_ice_chi.php
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