Although Ted Stevens currently holds a lead of approximately 3,200 votes in ballots counted to date in Alaska's senate contest, there is good reason to believe that the ballots yet to be counted -- the vast majority of which are early and absentee ballots -- will allow Mark Begich to mitigate his disadvantage with Stevens and quite possibly pull ahead of him.
The reasoning behind this is simple: some early ballots have been processed, and among those ballots Begich substantially leads Stevens. A tally of Alaska's 40 house districts as taken from Alaska's Division of Elections webpage suggests that Begich has won about 61% of the early ballots counted so far, as compared with 48% of ballots cast on Election Day itself.
(Notes: Totals and percentages exclude ballots cast for minor-party candidates. Data for District 3 was incomplete on the Divisions of Elections website and is extrapolated from returns in the Young-Berkowitz in that district. Percentages are not calculated in districts with fewer than 100 early votes have been counted).
As you can see, there is an essentially linear relationship between the percentage of regular votes received by Mark Begich in a particular district and his percentage of early votes, with his share of the early vote generally running 10-15 points higher:
There are currently at least 9,500 early votes remaining to be counted in Alaska. In addition, there are more than 50,000 absentee votes, which are essentially early votes conducted by mail. Lastly, there are at least 18,000 "question" or "questioned" ballots, which consist principally of voters who may have cast ballots away from their home precincts.
Let's go about allocating these votes in the following way:
Early Votes. Uncounted early ballots will be allocated between Begich and Stevens in the same proportion as already-counted early ballots in a given district. In districts where fewer than 100 early votes have been counted so far, the early vote allocation is extrapolated based on election day votes, as determined from the regression line in the chart above.
In each district, 5 percent of early votes are reserved for third-party candidates befoer the Begich-Stevens allocation is made.
The early vote allocation alone is worth a net of about 1,750 votes to Begich, cutting his deficit with Stevens roughly in half.
Absentee Votes. It is unclear whether there is a meaningful distinction between absentee votes, which are conducted by mail, and early votes, which are conucted in person. In some districts, there were almost no in-person early votes cast, suggesting that the only way to vote early in that district may have been by mail.
What I have decided to do in allocating the absentee vote is to split the difference between early and regular ballots. For example, in District 32, 60 percent of early votes went to Mark Begich as did 46 percent of regular votes. Therefore, 53 percent of absentee votes (half-way between 60 and 46) were assigned to Begich in this district, and the other 47 percent to Stevens.
As in the case of early votes, 5 percent of absentee ballots were reserved for third-party candidates before the Begich-Stevens allocation was made.
This allocation produces a net of about 4,700 votes for Begich.
Questioned Ballots. Questioned ballots are allocated according to the proportion of regular (Election Day) ballots received by Begich and Stevens in each district. However, we assume that one-third of questioned ballots will be deemed illegitimate and will be thrown out. In addition, 5 percent of questioned ballots are assigned to third-party candidates.
This allocation produces a net of about 250 votes for Stevens.
*-*
Combining the already-counted votes with our allocation of early, absentee and questioned ballots produces a projected total of 142,174 votes for Mark Begich and 139,258 for Ted Stevens -- a win for the Democrat by approximately 3,000 ballots:
Obviously, there is a lot of uncertainty in this estimate, particularly regarding the nature of absentee ballots. If absentee ballots behave like in-person early ballots, which gave a substantial advantage to Mark Begich, then Begich will defeat Stevens, perhaps by some decent margin. If they behave more like regular, election-day ballots, then Stevens will hold on to a narrow victory. If they are somewhere in between, as we have assumed, then Begich is the favorite to win, although the outcome will be close.
With so few early and absentee ballots counted to date, Ted Stevens' lead is not nearly so robust as it appears. Until we get better information about the nature of the absentee vote in Alaska, the race should probably be regarded as a toss-up.
11.07.2008
Uncounted Votes May Push Begich Past Stevens
by Nate Silver @ 7:21 PM
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262 comments
Er, One?
Besides that, how long does it take to count the voting papers?! Three men and a dog could have done it by now.
As many Senate seats as possible, please.
And get rid of 8--that's on my wishlist too.
Wow. I must say that this is a relatively stunning development. I had pretty much written this seat off.
Electoral Thoughts: The Morning After
I seem to remember reading that the absentee ballot vote in Alaska might look a little different than in other states because of the climate. I.e. (if I understood it correctly) because getting to the polling stations could be difficult in some areas, more would people would vote absentee. Is there anything to this and would it effect these predictions?
I hope your detailed analysis is right. When so much work needs to be done, I'd hate to think that one of the 1st things that will need to happen in this Congress is to vote on expelling this felon since it could be a bitter fight to get 2/3s.
Fingers crossed!
HRD said...
...it could be a bitter fight to get 2/3s.
Didn't the minority leader say he would make sure Stevens wouldn't serve in the Senate again? The the Repubs are on board, I doubt they'll have much problem getting the Dem to join.
Third? Where is everybody.
NATE: Saw you on Rachel Maddow last night. Most excellent!
ALSO: I'd like to really thank you for the work you did. There are many of us trolls who checked your site several times a day and for a week, while McCain was ahead, you gave us hope.
I did a radio interview in San Diego last week and I touted your web site quite extensively. It, and you, are awesome.
Lastly, congratulations on how accurate you are. I know that's the satisfaction you get, and it proves that you are the finest cream of the crop.
I'm sure you can get a high-paying job with any campaign you want, though I know your first love is baseball.
Good luck with anything you do in life - although for guys like you, luck has nothing to do with it.
I'll watch this site until it becomes dormant, and I'll be back when it pops to life again.
Again, congratulations - and (for selfish reasons) keep up the good work.
Mr. Biker
the tho9ught of palin becoming Sen
bothers me no end. begich had better win.
as for Mn does anyone know when they plan to start the reount? i get the feeling they still arent sure about the votes that they already have let alone looking at all of them again
Thank you so much for this analysis.
The original figures from Alaska were clearly far too low to be correct.
On the subject of the Minnesota Senate race, I posted this on the previous thread. I'll repeat it here just in case it's interesting to anyone:
MN - Presidential election:
Total - 2,900,759 votes
MN - Senate election:
Total - 2,883,098 votes
This suggests there might be some votes outstanding in the Senate race.
This does raise the question: Why were some early votes counted and released election night while many others are held back with the absentee ballots?
That suggests only one thing - a much higher than normal level of voting in the Senate race.
Nearlyt every race below president has fewer votes than the one listed above. That (by my rough calculations) 599 out of every 600 people who voted for president also voted for senator is an extraordinarily high number.
If it suggested anything, it would be that votes were ADDED, not stolen, to the senate race.
Almost forgot to say,
This is good news..........
FOR MCCAIN!
Mr. Biker
Am I right to assume the number of Presidential votes will also increase too? There were 85,000 less of those than in 2004. (Sorry if that's an obvious question to ask. I'm from the UK so I don't know all the details on these things).
I'd like Begich to win, but if he doesn't, Palin in DC would be a huge gift for Dems. She would become a (the?) visible leader of the GOP nationally. She would be the gift that keeps on giving.
Stevens is a seven over felon... How is it he isn't already in prison? What happens when they put this guy in jail if he wins? Another election? Is this whole thing a mute point?
Is there any information on which districts the uncounted absentee ballots are from? Is it proportionate to the overall vote reported already?
WOW, Nate wetn projection crazy on us with the Begich/Stevens race the way i just did with the popular vote for 2012. sweet, I'm not alone in my analysis with 1000 caveats. Truth is that without a "fatal flaw" in the numbers, the math probably adds up.
My thread regarding the 2012 election suggests that Obama won 83.5% of the vote among the combination of Hispanics, Afircan-Americans, and Jews. If he were to do that again, the GOP contender would need to win the rest (Whites, Asians, etc.) by at least 19.5% to catch up in the popular vote. Given the fact that Obama won about 44% of that group this time, and many did not give him the benefit of the doubt, if his Presidency is halfway decent, going into the 2012 election, the GOP could have a big mountain to climb in front of them.
1) Moot, not mute, point
2) He has not been sentenced, not even sure he will get jail time (most likely not)
3) If he wins, he will almost certainly be expelled. Under Alaskan law, there will be an open (non-primary) election shortly thereafter.
4) He could actually run again. Palin could run. The Lt Gov could run. Begich could run. Walt Monahan could run.
What's particularly fascinating is the notion that if Begich catches up and somehow Franken wins the recount, the Dems could be sitting at 59 (if you include Lieberman). This could present a huge problem in the runoff for Martin as the GOP will argue against the 60 seat majority and probably get enough turnout to stop Martin. Just a hypothesis.
Nate,
Thanks for this post. I have been waiting for you to do some number crunching on the screwy Alaska situation. I feel confident that Begich will pull ahead in the end. I think Franken might have a tougher time in MN, but I have lots of hope!
Andy JS,
Yes, the presidential votes will go up (probably even more than the Senate votes) in AK. The whole ballots still need to be counted and tabulated and they include all the races.
Andy JS: yes, your assumption about the number of presidential ballots increasing is right.
While it seems ubiquitous that non-Alaska Democrats (and maybe equally so among Alaska Democrats) are happy to have Begich be the US Senator from Alaska, having seen him perform so poorly in his debate with Stevens made me think that it would be best that Stevens won and someone better -- I am not a partisan -- replaced Stevens. Begich looked all the Patty Murray to me: neither well informed or well spoken.
Does anyone know how redistricting works after the 2010 census? I know how it will change the electoral college. That's not my question. My question is how does it effect the House of Representatives. Do districts disappear and the Representative is out of Congress because their district disappeared? And new districts have no incumbent, go for it brand new seats?
This is an open question about Senate rules.
It takes 2/3s of the Senate to expel a seated Senator.
But what are the rules at the beginning of the term? What is the procedure for refusing to swear him in?
This may be unchartered territory - it wouldn't happen, but couldn't the Senate possibly seat Begich as the next highest vote getter? (That sure would be a lesson to voters who wanted to elect a felon next time)? Would it take just a majority vote to refuse to seat him?
Anyone have any idea?
He might be expelled from the lame duck session - but that would have nothing to do with his being sworn in a few weeks later, unless there is a "once you are expelled, you can never come back rule."
538's final poll average for Alaska in the Presidential election was McCain - 56%, Obama -42%.
The (phony?) result declared so far is McCain - 62%, Obama - 36%.
I'm willing to bet the genuine result is closer to Nate's figures than the current result we have.
The case for Martin in GA, and, if there is a new election in AK for Begich, is that with a large Dem majority and a Dem president, both states would be much better served having a Dem Senator.
This argument could resonate in AK; and in GA, the idea of Chambliss being able to be bipartisan and getting any favors seems laughable.
The danger in any Obama participation is that a Chambliss win would be interpreted as a set-back and rejection. But with the great Obama team, the low turnout that this election would have, and further ways of contrasting Martin and the despicable Chambliss, it could be worth the risk.
librarianwoes said...
Stevens is a seven over felon... How is it he isn't already in prison? What happens when they put this guy in jail if he wins? Another election? Is this whole thing a mute point?
//
Well, if he wins and the senate boots him (or he retires before they can), Gov Palin replaces him. She could appoint herself, but it seems ethically questionable. Of course, Palin and ethics have been strangers before. Also, the word is moot, not mute. http://www.popduds.com
Question: Is there any evidence that vote tampering or manipulation has been done in this race. Nate, you were on Rachel Maddow last night (or was it Wednesday?) and she was intimating that something wasn't quite right. There was a timing issue (votes weren't released for some time) and a disproportional amount of votes went for Stevens that seems logical. If you watch the "Stealing America Vote By Vote" documentary, you see how this was done in other states. I'm concerned that there is shinanagins occuring in Alaska. My thought is that Stevens will win, just to resign, and the Palin will assign herself or some other Republican to the seat. I think foul play is at hand.
Sorry if this is old news here but it's too cool to miss in a whoa kind of way:
In Hebrew, Rahm (רעם)* means “thunder” and Barack (ברק) means “lightning.”
“If you are near...lightning you’ll hear thunder as one sharp crack”
Thunder & Lightning = Change that can get it done
2 thoughts...
1. I do not see a realistic path for Palin to take to get Stevens Senate seat. She would have to run in a win a special election that may never happen. I would say that there is only a slim chance that a special election occurs, a slimmer chance that Palin decides to run in it, and if both of those actually happen I think she would lose to Begich.
2. The best chance for the Dems to get to 60 seats hinges on Stevens winning in Alaska, Martin in GA then would be able to run with less of a 60 seat Dem concern, which would make his success more likely. Finally Stevens would have to be not seated triggering a special election which I think Begich could win.
Talk about threading the neadle... because of course all this depends on Franken pulling it off in MN.
Eric: "Obama won 83.5% of the vote among the combination of Hispanics, Afircan-Americans, and Jews."
It seems strange to make that calculation including my people, the Jews, in there. Your percentage wouldn't change at all just going with blacks and browns.
Jewish voters are insignificant in numbers in almost every state. And in the few states where there are a lot, we are talking less than 10% of the population. As far as who wins and who loses an election, it is pretty rare that a state is pushed over the top by the Jewish vote.
Also, considering demographics, this will be more pronounced in the future. The Jewish population in the U.S. is growing older, while the black and brown population (to the extent it is not Jewish, of course) is growing younger.
Eric -
Each state will redraw their maps in 2011 after the census. Most are done by their state legislatures and need the governor to go along; a few states (Iowa is one) go outside the system to do this (CA apparently has approved the same).
Sometime 2 incumbents get put in the same district when a state loses a seat. States that gain seats then have open ones.
Fascinating that Alaskans are getting another chance at redemption. If Senator Felon actually loses then that forestalls Sarah Palin's move into the Senate.
Her options suddenly become MUCH narrower! Instead of running for the Senate once Stevens is given the heave-ho from the Senate, she'll have to challenge Lisa Murkowski in the Republican primary in 2010.
That won't be an easy fight for her. It will be 2 years down the road while she cools her heels as the Governor, while Murkowski gets to enact federal legislation.
Most popular incumbent Senators get re-elected. It's almost unheard of for a sitting Senator to be unseated by his own party, unless (like Joe Lieberman) they've totally pissed off the base of the party in some fashion.
But Murkowski hasn't done anything wrong. She's just as popular in Alaska now as Palin but she already has the job.
I think that if Begich wins we can put the nail in the coffin of Sarah Palin.
After 2 years of obscurity stewing in Alaska is the Republican party really going to be so eager to nominate her? Are her campaign skills really up to winning a national campaign against say Mitt Romney?
Will all the Republican factions unite with her? Or will some be tempted by the success of President Obama to try and pick a moderate this time?
Nate, hope you're as spot-on with this as you have been all campaign season!
In answer to the question above: The MN State Canvassing Board will meet Nov 18 to officially certify all the results, as required by law; as the results are so close, an automatic recount is triggered. All paper ballots will be recounted by precinct, before representatives from the candidates, to determine intent. The vast majority of ballots seem to have been properly marked, but if there is a check or a circle rather than a filled-in oval, and intent is clear, it will be counted. If votes are challenged, they will be presented to the canvassing board. We had a judicial race recount recently that went very well. Our Sec. of State, Mark Ritchie, is a stand-up guy.
I think that it would be great if Ted won and was escorted from the Senate floor in hand cuffs after his appeal failed. It would illustrate the utter depravity of a republican electorate that would elect a convicted felon. Besides hearing Bill O’RLY and Rush defend Ted would be comedic GOLD.
It's intriguing how the Democrats need another 3 Senate pick-ups to hit the magic 60 seats, and here we have 3 Senate races where victory is still possible, in GA, AK, and MN. It's obviously unlikely that all 3 will go Democrat, but there's still a fair chance.
As far as Georgia is concerned, it might depend on whether Obama is willing and interested in going down there to inspire AA voters to turn out again in large numbers. If he doesn't go down to Georgia in person, I think the Democrats don't have much chance.
An Alaska voter here -- I live in district 23, a heavily Democratic district in midtown Anchorage, so I can answer some questions.
I voted early last Saturday at the Alaska Division of Elections office in midtown Anchorage, arriving at 10 AM (when it began that day) to an already very long line. It took me 55 minutes to get through. My supervisor & her husband voted the same place the following day, & took an hour & a half. In other words, early voting was quite heavy.
Early voting was by absentee ballot. So yes, while a lot of absentee ballots are done through the mail, a lot of it was people like us lining up at Division of Elections offices so that our ballots were handed in in person.
The reason that the count is taking so long is that the Division of Elections discovered that 26 people had double-voted during the primaries by first voting absentee, & then turning up on primary day at their regular polling place to vote a second time. In order to prevent that from happening again, election officials decided that any absentee ballots (including early vote ballots) cast after last Thursday would be held & not counted until workers could check the voter's info (on a form taped on the outside of the envelope containing the ballot) against signatures of voters who actually showed up on Nov. 4 at their regular polling place. That's why there's such a high amount of as-yet uncounted ballots.
The Begich campaign was very much encouraging early voting. I was approached at both the Alaskans for Truth rally (anti-Palin re: Troopergate) & the Obama rally a week later about early voting. I also got a GOTV call on Saturday afternoon after I'd already voted. I think there's a very good change, as Nate says, that these ballots hold a Begich victory.
There are still, however, some big questions about the results so far. The voter turnout doesn't make sense, not at all; nor do the results thus far for either Begich or Berkowitz (the Democratic Congressional candidate against Don Young), both of whom showed in all polls as being far ahead of the Republican incumbents. In a press release on Nov. 5, Begich said this:
We will be monitoring closely the vote counting by the State. Already we’ve heard a few interesting reports at precincts that don’t make much sense.
For example, in the North Slope village of Wainwright, the Division of Elections doesn’t show a single vote for me, while the Libertarian candidate got 90, the non-partisan candidate received 84 and Senator Stevens got 8. That just defies common sense. I flat out won five of the other seven villages on the North Slope.
The Division of Elections is headed up by the Lieutenant Governor, in this case Palin's second Sean Parnell. In the last election, which also had some questionable results, it was Frank Murkowski's lieutenant Loren Leman, extremely partisan guy. I haven't heard of any irregularities at the polling places themselves, & mostly paper ballots are in use, but the vote tabulation software is Diebold. Last time around the Dems sued up the ying-yang to get the raw data, & when they finally got it, there were signs of recent editing of the data.
So... I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but things are a bit fishy up here.
Several of the Alaska political blogs have more.
Palin can not appoint herself to the senate if Stevens is booted.
First of all any appointment would be temporary and only last until a special election could be held. Second the Governor may not appoint herself per Alaska law (this is very often misreported). She could resign and then trust the Lieutenant governor to appoint her to the senate once he assumes the governorship. But again the appointment would only be temporary
Hah, "the race should probably be regarded as a toss-up" - classic Nate Silver. Even after the election is over he's hedging his bets.
wv: nonvol - Ted Stevens' ejection from the Senate should be nonvol.
"Didn't the minority leader say he would make sure Stevens wouldn't serve in the Senate again? The the Repubs are on board, I doubt they'll have much problem getting the Dems to join."
The Democrats would just LOVE for Republicans to rally around Senator Felon. What a wonderful poster-boy for corrupt Republicans he'd make! Can't you see the campaign ads "Senator X voted to keep convicted felon Ted Stevens in the Congress even after he'd been convicted of 7 felony counts for bribery and influence peddling. He even went so far as to call Stevens "my good friend." Tell Senator X that we don't need more corruption in the United States Senate! The Americans for Ethical Government Committee is responsible for this advertising."
No, the Republican party does NOT need another albatross around their necks at this point, after having just been beaten like an army mule in the election!
They will not make much fuss about throwing Stevens to the wolves. To do anything else would be like rubbing a dead skunk all over themselves!
I am just praying Begich grabs this seat so Palin has no chance of running against him in the especial election. That way, she is robbed of 4 years in the senate, hence a national exposure and ultimately a lesser chance of coming back for 2012.
Here's hoping this funkiness gets resolved and democracy prevails in Alaska, whatever that means up there. And here's hoping that enough Alaskans value things like professionalism and upholding the law that Stevens and maybe even Young will be riding the hot rail out of Congress.
mark,
Alaskans are a special breed of redneck[ism]. For 50 years America has neglected what goes on over there -- now the reality of this state is revealing itself in the most grotesque fashion.
This idea about Palin in 2012 is absurd. Obama would have to completely and utterly fail at being president for her to beat him in 2012. It will not happen and would only assure that Obama is reelected even if he does not succeed as well as I think he will. 2016 however might offer her a fighting chance, but really I think the country is moving in a different direction (thank god).
Mel,
Thanks for the insight!
Soooooo, Any reason to invest in Begich on intrade? he's only at like 30.
jackson,
Yes, I think 30 is a bargain.
Cugel,
I'm torn between wanting a Republican nominee who excites 30% of the country and scares the other 70%, and being part of that 70%.
Minnesota --Last update was: 11/7/2008 6:22:16 PM
Republican
NORM COLEMAN
1211556
Democratic-Farmer-Labor
AL FRANKEN
1211335
Link
221 and counting
mel: thanks very much for that local information.
I still have faith in Alaskan voters, and I don't think they will have elected a convicted felon.
The system of reporting results has got to be changed: the networks have been reporting 99% for Alaska for a long time, but obviously this gives the wrong impression to anyone viewing that information. It might be correct in some kind of technical sense, but when ordinary people see "99% reporting", they assume that means roughly 99% of the votes have been counted.
I'm not a betting man, jackson, but I don't see why not if you like to do that sort of thing. The odds definitely look better than that.
Amazing that way back in the summer, before McCain picked Governor Palin to be his running mate, we were gabbling about how Alaska might flip into the Democratic column this year. I guess everything concerning Alaska that has gone on since then has pretty well set us straight.
Franken is now trailing by just 221 votes, funny how nearly every update moves in Franken's direction!
Gosh darn it, I hope there are at least 222 people who like Stuart...er Al
aria,
Instead of labeling all Alaskans as "a special breed of redneck[ism]," how about instead recognizing that there are a lot of Alaskans up here -- like me -- who are fighting very hard against those who are rednecks, & supporting them in that fight. You simply flushing the whole state down the toilet sure doesn't do anything for the many of us who are sickened & disgusted by Palin & her ilk.
In the state house & state senate, we've made some great gains this election. There are signs that results for both Berkowitz & Begich are suffering from some kind of shenanigans somewhere at the higher levels of the Div. of Elections.
Eric said...
Does anyone know how redistricting works after the 2010 census?
Ironically, the census will inevitably add about 6 EV to the red states at the cost of the blue states. Pennsylvania will probably lose 2 EV, Michigan one, Ohio 2, perhaps Illinois 1, etc.
Probable changes: Texas will gain 2 EV, Georgia 1, Florida 1, and so on. About the only blue state that will gain a vote will be California which might gain 1.
Thus, Obama's winning over Southern states comes just in time!
Obama will have to win in Virginia and North Carolina and Florida again.
The key will be to make a greater effort among hispanic voters. Their turnout was disappointingly not greater this year than in 2004, and their numbers in the population are growing. It's true that Obama got over 60%, but there needs to be major registration and GOTV efforts among Hispanics to get them over 8% next time.
@sfergus483:
"This may be unchartered territory"
1) It's actually "uncharted", not "unchartered"
Just to keep you honest.
Blogger eponymous said...
Cugel,
I'm torn between wanting a Republican nominee who excites 30% of the country and scares the other 70%, and being part of that 70%.
Don't underestimate the power of the media to "reinvent" Palin. She'll bone up on her foreign affairs between now and then, so that she can sound like she knows what she's talking about.
Then she'll give an interview on foreign policy. All the pundits will be eager to prove how wonderfully "bi-partisan" they are by saying "we underestimated her!"
The right wing will scream "Sarah's Back!" And we'll have a full bore fight to the death. All the nodding heads of the MSM will drool all over her new-found "gravitas."
If Ronald Reagan could become President, they can make ANYBODY President, no matter how ignorant they are.
I think Obama will crush anybody who runs against him in 2012, and most incumbent Presidents win re-election anyway. But, don't underestimate Palin!
There will be a LOT of efforts to "rehabilitate" her, just like they did with Dan Quayle!
Don't forget, Dan Quayle was well on his way to becoming the Republican candidate in 1996 when he misspelled "Potatoe" thus cementing forever the "dolt" impression people had of him from the 1988 debates.
That's not much of a hurdle for Palin to vault.
Rich Rifkin --
I didn't see the debate between Stevens & Begich, but speaking for myself, Mark Begich is damn good. He's now in his second term as Anchorage mayor -- a city one helluva lot larger than the eyesore of Wasilla that Palin used to preside over, as Anchorage holds about half the state's population. He's good enough that the national Democratic Party was all over him to run as soon as it became evident that Stevens was in the least bit vulnerable.
news--don't know if you are still reading this thread on a friday night but you baited me with the hebrew exegisis ;-) excellent catch. Most people focus on the origin of Barack being from Baruch, or blessed one. But it is true that this is the meaning of Barak. Little trivia---Ehud Barak, former Prime Minister changed his last time from something much less Israeli to Barak to signal strength.
More on point--I do hope Stevens loses.
cugel,
with regard to the electoral vote count after the 2010 census, Obama would lose a net 6 electoral votes from a map of states where he won by 9% or more vs the others. Obama won 269 electoral votes from states by 9% or more. That number would be down to 263 and require a victory in one more state probable. The 269 electoral votes, worth a likely 263 in 2012 are Kerry states + IA, NM, NV. He would need one of the following, all things being equal, Colorado, Virginia, Florida, Ohio. That's my best guess.
i was looking at the totals of pres vs sen voting totals and i just dont get MN's #'s
some other state totals-
MA=
Pres=2,995,367
Sen=2,882,570
diff=112,797
VA=
Pres=3,609,066
Sen=3,522,090
diff=86,976
Now we have MN
Pres=2,848,680
Sen=2,422,891
diff=425,789
i checked this twice i just cant think that there is something phoney going on here. unless of course MN is way off the rest of the country's idea of how to vote or in this case not vote.
Is my math wrong or do i have wrong #'s i dont think so.
I just noticed this:
ALASKA (2004):
Total registered voters - 474,901
Kerry/Edwards - 111,025
Percentage - 23.4%
ALASKA (2008):
Total registered voters - 490,656
McCain/Palin - 136,348
Percentage - 27.8%
According to the current figures, Sarah Palin could only managed to pull in 4.4 percentage points more of the Alaskan electorate than John Kerry in 2004.
Livemild,
For the MN Senate race, are you adding Barkley who got a decent amount of votes?
Livemild:
I know that Minnesota has consistently had the highest turnout in the USA and has the strongest "vote ethic", so maybe we shouldn't be too surprised by the fact that nearly everyone who voted in the presidential election also voted in the senate election.
"In Hebrew, Rahm (רעם)* means “thunder” and Barack (ברק) means “lightning.”
“If you are near...lightning you’ll hear thunder as one sharp crack”
Thunder & Lightning = Change that can get it done"
Nice :o) -- particularly considering that Rahm's name actually is from the Hebrew. However, the actual meaning of Barack's name (Swahili for "Blessing"), may fit more with the way this is going to work:
"Blessing" and "thunder": more of a good-cop/bad-cop sort of thing.
Early voters who mail in their ballots haven't "proven" who they are. Before their votes can be calculated election authorities have to review and match signatures on the exterior of the envelope with voting records.
The later the envelope comes in the later it is before the signature is checked. Usually well after election eve.
In addition, because of Alaska's proximity to Russia, election officials are doing double duty searching the skies to see if Putin has reared his head into Alaskan territory.
If there are real shenanigans with the election, the Senate is the final arbiter and can determine who was elected. Hmmmm. Do you think Stevens will have "home court advantage" there?
wv - undelike
I did an earlier post on this thread. Here it is again:
Minnesota - Presidential election:
Total - 2,900,759 votes
Minnesota - Senate election:
Total - 2,883,098 votes
livemild,
you have your numbers VERY wrong. There was a strong third party canididate in MN, Barkley, who got 437,385.
You cannot just add the vote totals of the top two candidates to get the total votes figure. This does not work for the president race nor the senate race.
AndyJS -- yep, that's the kind of thing we're noticing up here that makes us reaaaaaaaalllly wonder if something corrupt is cooking in this election besides just felon Stevens & we're-just-waiting-for-the-indictment Young.
From the Mudflats blog, http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/crunching-the-numbers-in-alaska/ --
In 2004, 66% of registered voters turned out to vote in the presidential election between George Bush and John Kerry.
In 2008, including the votes still outstanding, only 54% of registered voters turned out.
And the strangest part of all? Voter turnout in the primaries, before Palin was even on the ticket, was up 12% from 2004. We also had more than 20,000 new registered voters.
Curious.
As these strange numbers rolled in at Election Central, I was there watching. Here’s how it fell out over time.
With 36% of the precincts reporting:
61.76% for McCain
35.64% for Obama
With 81.3% reporting
61.54% for McCain
35.69% for Obama
With 96.1% reporting
61.29% for McCain
35.96% for Obama
Alaska, like many states, has blue areas and red areas. The Mat-Su Valley, home of Sarah Palin is very very red. Anchorage? Blue. The Kenai Peninsula? Red. Juneau? Blue. You get the idea. When I, and my fellow progressive celebrants watched the first numbers come in, we thought, “That must be the Valley”, because the latest polls actually had the presidential race neck and neck with Obama only 2.7 points behind. We kept waiting for the progressive areas of the state to kick in, but they never did. No fluctuations one way or the other more than .3%. And George Bush won the 2004 election her by a margin of…..61-35.
Strange.
Then, we’ve got the two Congressional races.
Ted Stevens vs. Mark Begich. The convicted felon is currently ahead by about 3300 votes, with about 60,000 absentee and early votes left to count. It’s a squeaker, and Begich may pull this one off. By why is it a squeaker when the last poll had Begich 22 points ahead? He’d been running at a dead heat in the polling before Ted’s conviction, but after the seven felony convictions came in, Begich’s lead widened considerably. Pretty stunning turnaround for Stevens.
Remarkable.
How about Ethan Berkowitz vs. Don Young for the Congressional seat?
Berkowitz consistently led Young in every single poll since May by 5-14 points. Contrary to this comfortable and consistent lead, Don Young managed to pull off a stunning upset by trouncing Berkowitz by more than 7 points.
Amazing.
And since history is always our best teacher, let’s look back at the 2004 elections in Alaska. The majority of precincts had voter turnout of over 100%. In some cases, voter turnout was over 200%. Either Alaskans are enthusiastic about their vote to the point of breaking the law and voting twice, or there’s something very very wrong.
From Shannyn Moore http://shannynmoore.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/stolen-election-in-alaska/ --
In 2006, the Democrats filed a lawsuit against the Alaska Division of Elections to release public records needed to verify the 2004 election results. The Democrats also sought to have the Alaska Division of Elections release the raw data for the 2006 election. The State requested several deadline extensions and eventually refused to release the “central tabulator data file” taken from the Diebold-supplied computer used to run the “GEMS” (Global Election Management Software) application. A lawsuit was filed in Superior Court seeking release of the records. The Court eventually forced the State to release the 2004 database. The software was found to contain hundreds of edits after the 2004 election, including as late as July of 2006, prior to the release of the data.
Let's just imagine for a minute that a Palin 2012 Presidential run isn't going to get blown out of the water by sensible Republicans.
Why, if she plans to run, would she try and get into the Senate?
This is the first election for nearly 50 years in which a sitting Senator has become President, so history suggests that being in the Senate is a poor launching pad. (Being a former Senator may well be different, but being an active one doesn't have much going for it.) Since she'd be a junior Senator in a minority party, and on its right wing so very unlikely to be approached for bipartisan initiatives which can make her look good, I can't see what would be in it for her.
Whether drawing attention to AK is a good idea given the rest of what is being revealed about the place is open to debate, but she's the Governor of a state which will figure significantly in any serious discussion of energy policy, and the President-Elect has indicated that energy policy will be a major priority. Surely she's in the best position to further any ambitions she may have if she stays precisely where she is.
wv: prester - what we wish a 16-ton weight had done with Palin
Does the fact that the Alaskan seat is looking plausible, the Minnesotan seat is looking plausible, and the Georgian seat is looking plausible give our friend Joe Lieberman any more leverage?
It shouldn't ... but truth is, it kind of does, no?
One thing I find particularly attractive about a Begich win is that it would deny Palin the opportunity to run for this seat.
andy-
conspiracy theory-
why the incredibly high number of senatorial votes the other states dont get near that number
does this show that someone has ADDED to the numbers that were voted for sen?
btw- i forgot about that third wheel guy... wish i could say i was drunk or it was late, but no i am DUMB!
This later post by Shannyn Moore (from today) also is pretty convincing about the possibility if not probability that Alaska corruption extends to corruption of our vote count, & we need help!
Here she is (Alaska on eBay? Election Numbers Update"):
You don’t have to be a coroner to smell a corpse. Alaska needs an election autopsy STAT. The stench persists. When Democracy’s infected, there is nothing benign about it. I know Alaska. I know we keep voting for self-professed corrupt bastards. I know it took the FBI to start scrubbing the corruption out of our state legislature. I sat through the trials of men who had sold their votes cheap to big oil. My candidate rarely wins, but I always vote. That said, Alaska’s average presidential election voter turnout is 66.7%. With the exception of Bush-Gore and Bush-Kerry we have known who the President Elect was BEFORE OUR POLLS CLOSE. You betcha, and we still vote in healthy numbers.
Nationally, I get it. You have Palin Fatigue Syndrome. You’re starting to think, “You know that 49th State? Let’s put it on ebay.” Wait. Remember the dream of a filibuster proof majority? It’s not an Ambian haze; we’re three contested seats away! Take a deep breath, hold your nose, and help Alaska, Georgia, and Minnesota find their votes. This is not a tin foil hat activity; just math and uncommon sense. This is not a matter to litigate post mortem; Democracy requires vigilance. Alaskans have been bitching about election fraud for years and there are law suits to prove it. The Republicans whining about ACORN seemed like Jeffery Dahmer complaining about a burntdiebold hamburger.
In Alaska, the last two presidential elections were decided by the exact same margin of victory; 61-36. The only difference was the number of votes; more Alaskans voted for George W Bush-Dick Cheney in 2004 than Sarah Palin-John McCain in 2008. Initially there were only 49,000 votes left to count. Now there are 74,527 outstanding ballots. Curious. Even still-this year’s turnout is still smaller than the election of 2004 by 6.1%. Hhhhhhmmmm. I would have to smoke more than Salmon to believe that Alaska, with Palin on the ballot, decided to sit this one out.
Relevant Facts:
1) The 1,700% increase in the Democratic Caucus in
2) 20,991 newly registered voters
3) The three largest political rallies in Alaska’s history were held in September and October.
4) Early voters set an historic record. 25,000 Alaskans showed up to vote early in 2008 vs 11,000 in 2004; an increase of 127%!
5) 12.4% more Alaskans showed up for the August primary as compared to four years ago, before the Palin nomination.
6) The average Presidential Election turnout since we started keeping records is 66.7%. The 2008 Alaska voter turnout (including the uncounted 74,527 ballots) is 60.1%. THE LOWEST GENERAL TURN OUT save Clinton/Dole 96’.
7) The Lower 49 had a record voter turnout this year.
8.) 80% of Alaskans approved of Sarah Palin just two months ago.
9) Anchorage Daily News front page on Election Day: Personnel Board Exonerates Palin She flew home to vote with Alaskans.
10) An unprecedented 16 point come-from-behind lead for Congressman Don Young over challenger Ethan Berkowitz.
11) Ted Stevens trial coverage and 7 felony convictions.
12) Don Young under investigation; spending over $1Million on legal fees this year.
So, with that…sorry, I forgot to give you a clothespin. I have more faith in my friends and neighbors. I know they don’t always agree with me, but they do vote. America, before you break up with Alaska, crown us with El Presidente Palin. Let the “Drill, Baby, Drill” chant become our new anthem. Know this: We need you. You need us. Progressive Alaskans are an endangered species, and should be treated as such. I am fighting for what seem to be Alaskan votes; but they are American votes. You need them.
bram,
Not really...
He will have a vote one way or the other. THe reality is that 60 seats is not as powerful as it seems, the difference between 59 and 60 is tiny for all practical purposes and MUCH different than the difference between having 49 and 50 (+VP). What is Joe gonna do, promise to vote with Reid to end debate all the time if he keeps his chair? The reality is that there are other places to look to get the 60th vote to end debate, if Joe wants to throw a hissy.
WV. Lowbox : Where they are hiding the uncounted ballots in AK
Mel - I'd just like to say that your comment was really great. Finally I understand why the ballots are taking so long to be counted.
By the way, for people who think that Alaskan's might be too timid to come out on election day because of our climate... oh please. We are kinda sorta extremely accustomed to going to the polls on cold wintry days. A little snow or cold weather is not gonna stop us. Nor did it this times. Something fishy's going on.
I don't think anyone needs to worry about Palin in 2012.
In order to get herself elected she's going to have to run a campaign first and from what I've seen of her she couldn't run a faucet.
Despite her much vaunted 'executive experience', she has not got the people management skills to develop and foster a great team of advisers; no sense of strategy to set priorities; and no real idea of how to use the Internet to raise money and organise volunteers (and believe you me that has now become a necessary part of any campaign).
She was able to perform OK (if you like that sort of thing) in the current campaign only because McCain's team wound her up in the morning, lipsticked on the smile and pointed her in the right direction.
Palin winning a special election and being a player on the National scene in the Republican Party is GREAT NEWS!!!! for THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!
Seriously, if Dems can't get to 60, someone tell me why Senator Palin wouldn't be excellent news for Dems.
Mel:
Thanks for that info.
I found this article in the Anchorage Daily News from October 14th, 2008, which points out the increase in Alaskan registrations. Reports like this kind of make you think the number of votes might go up rather than down:
http://community.adn.com/node/132782
Just to confirm the turnout problem, some more figures:
ALASKA (2004):
Total registered voters - 474,901
Total votes - 312,598
Turnout - 65.8%
ALASKA (2008):
Total registered voters - 490,656
Total votes - 221,678
Percentage - 45.2%
That's a drop in turnout of 20.6 percentage points.
Can't be right.
have you guys seen that press conference of sarah the non dictator?
That woman does not know a sentence she doesn't mangle. oy!
from MoveOn.org
====
Hey,
Want a free Obama sticker to celebrate our victory? It's designed by Shepard Fairey, the artist who created the iconic HOPE poster. And MoveOn's giving them away totally free--even the shipping's free.
I just got mine. Click this link to get your free Obama sticker:
Link
Thanks!
====
wv: boxing (geez that's a reality check)
Thanks Nate, I was really starting to get frustrated nobody seemed to care about the obvious problems happening in AK. Hopefully Begich pulls through.
@lat
Yes, saw it. Its the gift that keeps on giving. Who wouldn't want to see that for the next four years?
So Obama called Nancy Reagan to apologize... You know I thought that his comment was a little on the insensitive side seeeing as the seance would have likely tried to contact Nancy's dead husband. It still made me laugh though.
WAY up the thread, Eric said...
What's particularly fascinating is the notion that if Begich catches up and somehow Franken wins the recount, the Dems could be sitting at 59 (if you include Lieberman). This could present a huge problem in the runoff for Martin as the GOP will argue against the 60 seat majority and probably get enough turnout to stop Martin. Just a hypothesis.
But I wonder, is the filibuster a popular practice with voters? Isn't it most often seen as obstructionist, as the tool of a "do-nothing Congress"? I think Martin might be able to make that case.
Martin winning the run-off is possible, but Suxby has the upper hand. I'd rather have a 30/70 chance of getting 60 seats than a 50/50 chance of getting 59 seats.
I live in Mel's district (thank God for Les Gara), and I volunteered on the Begich campaign... in fact, I was one of the people making those GOTV calls last weekend, so I can confirm that the campaign made a huge push for early voting. Thanks for the post (although, as my boyfriend pointed out, this is like crack for me right now). I am just apopleptic with rage at the number of Alaskans who turned out to vote for Stevens. Like Palin didn't already embarrass us enough. And much as I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, I do think it's pretty unlikely that Alaska's Democrats just stayed home after the election was called for Obama. If you care enough to vote for president, you probably care enough to vote for Senate and House. Especially up here, with only one Congressman and the (currently) most infamous Senator in the country.
Keeping my fingers crossed that Mark comes through for us.
boulder-liberal said...
@lat
Yes, saw it. Its the gift that keeps on giving. Who wouldn't want to see that for the next four years?
--
I wouldn't want to see that for the next four years (or six years) or frankly ever again. What is good for the Dems in a partisan way is not always good for the country.
BTW can't we get rid of the damn wv's now? they annoy me
boulder--indeed. the best is that she is both incoherent and self contradictory. I am hoping someone will come up with a decoder because I cannot even follow along sometimes.
The best--the stinker apple basket comment about the media. Just wow!
But hey---yup yup you betcha. Also.
livemild:
You could be right about votes having been added to in the Minnesota senate race. It certainly looks like that when you compare MN to other senate races around the country. An interesting thought to ponder.
On the other hand, as I said before, Minnesota always has the highest turnout in elections - (maybe something to do with their Scandinavian heritage, and in countries like Norway and Sweden today they always have massive turnouts in elections) - and it could simply be that nearly everyone who voted in the presidential election in MN also wanted to take part in the senate election.
@badgerhair
"Since she'd be a junior Senator in a minority party"
Just nitpicking, because I think your point overall is quite right, but I'd like to point you to the results of the 2004 US Senate Election in Illinois, and the 2008 US Presidential Election.
(Since Repubs had a 55-44 majority following the 2004 elections)
Loralee,
I doubt it. Voters like "checks and balances" as well as "divided government". They also hate gridlock and obstructionism. Voters apparently fail to see the connection between the two and that their desire for the one produces the thing they hate.
I do not think Martin can make the 60 vote argument but I am sure that Chambliss will use it against him. Martin would have to go the other way and argue that he wants to help Obama and Georgia. Martin will never mention "filibuster".
Palin will not run for the Senate. She won't be able to squeeze per diem money from an unsuspecting public. She won't be able to bring Prop (her trisomy 3 son) into the Senate chamber and drag along two or three of her daughters (possibly including the one with her bastard child). And Todd won't be able to run snowmobile races any more.
The Palins have it real nice right now in Alaska, and all those clothes, too!
BTW - Bruce Palin is not a relative, but the anagram for Republican. Sarah Palin is the gift that keeps giving. And a fitting poster child for the Bruce Palin party.
Nate, thanks for a great site that I have visited hundreds of times in the past months.
Can you give an anlysis of the Franken recount? I heard the difference is down to around 200 votes.
There are 62,953 ballots waiting to be counted in Alaska according to the official website:
http://www.elections.alaska.gov/files/08GENR/remaining_absentee_early_question_numbers.pdf
Unfortunately, that number still doesn't really get us anywhere near the 2004 total, and most people were expecting a lot more votes in 2008 than 2004. Registrations have increased by just over 15,000, and Palin and Obama were supposed to be drawing the crowds at polling places.
Folks might be interested in this article:
A 2008 e-Voting Wrapup with Dr. Barbara Simons
By James Turner
November 7, 2008
O'Reilly
http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2008/11/a-2008-e-voting-wrapup-with-dr.html
There is info about the scanning machines used in Minnesota - the same ones with problems in Michigan tests.
Maybe Minnesota is this year's Florida in the Senate race.
Matt, I agree. Was it Dole or Chambliss that started in on the "divided government" advertisements a couple of weeks before the election? ((I didn't hear much about them after that, I assume they got a call from the RNC to pull them because they were likely to raise panic concerning McCain's chances))
However the election is 4 weeks away. Even if AK and MN both go D Liebermann might be out of caucus by then. So it wouldn't be a '60' argument anymore.
P.S. Regarding the really good year for R in the Senate in 2004, that could work against them trying to recover ground in 2010. There are only 15 D Senator incumbents in 2010, and most of those are in fairly "safe" locations. It is possible, depending on how the next 2 years go, for the Democrats to make it to 60 then.
Here's the problem Palin would have as a Senator, her 99 collegaues would find out how much of a dimwit or not she really is. you can't hide in the Senate. She knows that. She knows what she doesn't know and would not be gutsy enough to hang out in the Senate for a couple years and then run for Prez in 2012. She'd be eaten alive and she knows it. She may know that africa is a continent and that NAFTA is between Canada, the US, and Mexico, but there's a lot she doesn't know that she should. When a campaign for President would come around again, the Dem Senators would tear her apart in the media and she'd be a sitting duck. Not a good idea. She's not dumb enough to want to be Senator. Perhaps if she'd wait to run until 2016 and hope to learn over the next 8 years, that'd be a different story.
It's been wondrous to watch them attempt this thievery in broad daylight.
Also re: Palin Senator. I don't think she'd want to uproot her family or leave them behind. She'd do it for VP, but not a Senate seat. Just a guess.
On the other hand, as I said before, Minnesota always has the highest turnout in elections - (maybe something to do with their Scandinavian heritage, and in countries like Norway and Sweden today they always have massive turnouts in elections) - and it could simply be that nearly everyone who voted in the presidential election in MN also wanted to take part in the senate election.
It was also a VERY high profile race with the 3 candidates spending millions of dollars in advertising spent between April and the election. That's the sort of coverage, and therefore awareness and opinion, you get at the Pres level as opposed the stuff you normally find down ticket.
@SCIndie,
A very good point, but Obama himself described his candidacy as "improbable".
I don't think that when Obama ran for the Senate he anticipated even considering a run for the Presidency in 2008, but then a window opened up and he jumped through it.
If you were planning to run in 2012, though, it would be an incredible gamble to risk following in Obama's footsteps. Since her intentions would have been telegraphed in advance, it gives the rest of the Repubs in the Senate every chance to bury her. One can imagine that quite a few of them would be reluctant to allow her to use the Senate to start her campaign rolling.
tyler,
Dole and I believe Coleman ran ads assuming that Obama would win the presidency. Far from demanding that they be pulled down the party (RSCC) actually was sponsoring the ads, which is what really caused the uproar.
60 seats would be great, but the fact of the matter is that we have enough seats to push our agenda now and Obama will have more political capital when he takes office in Jan then he will in 2010. It is time to get going!
Even at the worst, we're not bad off. We have 57 seats, and we can easily pick off lovely RINO's like Snowe, Collins, Specter (Look how much Obama won PA and ME by) and yes, even McCain.
DailyKos just posted a 9:29 ET update which references this item. It has a bit more calendar info and a "cool PDF map" by ADN.
He has lower days-old figures for the current count, though, compared to the Alaska SOS results page. The difference is
106,594 - 106,351 = 243 Stevens,
103,337 - 102,998 = 339 Begich;
which is in a similar ratio to both the "37-to-59" Stevens-Begich ratio in early ballots Kos cites, and Nate's prognostications.
WV "wediump": we dump the votes into suitcases and sleds...
Then MN SOS has not updated in hours, which is kind of wierd since they were updating like every 15min until now. Do we think that they have gone home for the weekend and won't be updating again till Monday?
Checking the MN SOS website has been like methodone for me the last couple days, so I hope I don't have to go cold turkey till Monday.
A little more on the MN Senate race. I believe I read that after the vote is certified on Nov. 18, the recount itself might take a couple weeks. After that, it will almost certainly go to the courts. GA and AK might be decided first.
Although it's great to know the latest figures from MN, we mustn't forget that they have announced that the automatic recount won't be completed for many weeks, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
Discounting Palin, who could the Repubs run in 2012?
Assume for this purpose that Obama turns out, very surprisingly, to be mediocre at best so that the idea of running seems reasonable to a Repub who really wants to be Prez rather than engage in a sacrificial run in the full expectation of losing to a successful one.
I don't think we will see Palin running for prez or VP unless it's on a third party ticket. McCain had a hard time raising money and Palin will have an even harder time after being a significant drag on the ticket. The repubs depend on the big donors and they are not going to be throwing money at someone who lost big. It doesn't happen.
She could not begin to match the organization that Obama and his team have built. The difference will be like that of a moose trying to outdistance an F-15 jet.
She is blaming everything on the media. The media will not be her friend. Before the election there were republican columnists and bloggers calling her a disaster.
We have youtube with all her disasters recorded for eternity.
In four years she will not be the new political ingenue. She will be old news.
Interesting article to help with your MN withdrawal symptoms:
ttp://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20081107/4913cb50_3ca6_1552620081107163143316
I only asked Nancy Pfotenhauer for a Diet Dr. Pepper. However, since I am not Virginian enough, no dice.
Blogger Eric said...
Also re: Palin Senator. I don't think she'd want to uproot her family or leave them behind. She'd do it for VP, but not a Senate seat. Just a guess.
I think her actions regarding her children this campaign have shown someone who would not think at all about the children when making a career decision unless it was how to use them to further her ambition.
Romney will almost certainly be the nominee in 2012.
These are pretty fascinating results. Begich won both the progressive "urban" areas like Anchorage, Juneau, and west Fairbanks, AND the bush villages with high native populations. Stevens just cleaned up in the white-trash redneck parts of the state, like North Pole and Wasilla. He also did well in "Nowhere" (district 1) because I guess they wanted that bridge pretty bad.
Anyway, the surprise for me is that I would have expected part of Stevens' margin to come from the really rural areas. It didn't. It came from places on the road system with a lot of transplanted southerners in trailer parks.
Palin being a senator would probably not increase her chances of being a presidential winner. We typically don't elect Senators. Their voting record is used against them very effectively. Obama was lucky to be running against another senator and not a governor. Although I think he ran such an exceptionally great campaign he would have won anyway.
vinny said:
"Romney will almost certainly be the nominee in 2012."
Well then expect a bloody street fight with the Palin-bots, esp. if Romney wins Iowa.
Hillsborough County, FL update; Now that corrupt Buddy Johnson has more or less given up, conceded his defeat, and 'found a way' to count the missing 90,000 votes, including those found in unsecured boxes in his office, the new totals are:
Obama 272,461, 53.06%
McCain 235,819 45.93%
This compares to the election night report of:
Obama 192320 50%
McCain 188096 49%
In other words the 134,512 votes (i.e., staggeringly, over 26% of the total votes cast) that Buddy Johnson managed to misplace or find himself unable to count were dramatically disproportionately democratic, since Obama went from 1% ahead to over 6% ahead.
Since Johnson was the republican candidate himself, it goes without saying that he had a personal interest in those votes not being counted.
Here is a link for those who want to see the final numbers for themselves:
http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/FL/Hillsborough/9048/13539/en/summary.html
I'll try again:
http://enews.earthlink.net/article/
nat?guid=20081107/4913cb50_3ca6_1552620081107163143316
Posters over at Red State are planning a leper colony for any Republican who made or makes negative remarks against Palin. They are already planning her 2012 presidential candidacy.
I've heard some remarks in the MSM that Palin won't just be fading into the background, but I wondered how she would really stay in the forefront, at least as a creditable politician? Without a major political machine propping her up, she will make major gaffes.
Quick napkin analysis of 2012 Republican nominee.
The economy will be the number one factor. As far as I can tell, it will have been 80 years since they last incumbent president that decided to run lost without a significant economic crisis. Incumbent winners in reverse order: GW Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt. Incumbent losers: GHW Bush (economic crisis) Jimmy Carter (economic crisis). Gerald Ford might be an exception, but I think Watergate and the pardon of Richard Nixon was enough, along with OPEC.
So, expect a Bob Dole/Walter Mondale type nominee.
Insert your own Bible Spice joke here.
Thank you Pickled!
I will just keep rereading that article until Monday!
rebecca:
Thanks for the update. I'm still following the situation from here in the UK, (even though it's 3:30 am here). I visited Tampa once when I was staying near Orlando with my parents when I was about 10 years old.
There's one problem: the networks don't seem to have fully updated their figures for Hillsborough County.
They've still got:
Obama - 219,580
McCain - 209,503
Those figures are obviously updated slightly from the initial results on election night, but they still need to be corrected.
All these votes are helping Obama move towards 70 million votes, a 10 million vote lead, and a 54% percentage.
Oh, I think that article should keep you going all the way to the recount:)
Badgerhair said...
@SCIndie,
A very good point, but Obama himself described his candidacy as "improbable".
I don't think that when Obama ran for the Senate he anticipated even considering a run for the Presidency in 2008, but then a window opened up and he jumped through it.
If you were planning to run in 2012, though, it would be an incredible gamble to risk following in Obama's footsteps. Since her intentions would have been telegraphed in advance, it gives the rest of the Repubs in the Senate every chance to bury her. One can imagine that quite a few of them would be reluctant to allow her to use the Senate to start her campaign rolling.
Regarding Obama, I couldn't disagree more. I sensed he wanted to run in 2008 at his keynote in 2004. The whole red state, blue state thing. Don't underestimate his ambition. It seemsed obvious to me then. I know he had meetings after he won in 2004 almost mmediately to discuss plans for a 2010 rerun for Senate and 2012 for Prez. Makes sense to talk to the staff that brung you when it's fresh on the mind of what worked and what didn't. 2008 wasn't brought up as I understand it, but I'm almost certain that he knew the writing was on the wall and if he felt like he had a shot he was going to take it. He ran for a House seat in Chicago in 2000 that he had to know he had zero chance of winning against bobby rush. He just had to figure whether the timing was right in 2008 or 2012. When he figured out it was 2008 he jumped on it. i think in the back of his mind he sensed if the speech went over well at the convention, he was gonna run. You have to remember 2012 would have likely been against an incumbent and better than 50/50 a Dem, probably Hillary. He wasn't waiting until 2016. It seemd obvious to me with his 2002 speech catapulting him to the keynote and Senator. bottomline, I was almost sure he was going to run and probably win as of keynote 2004. Just needed Iowa. Rest was history.
Pickled,
This is the second different explanation that I have read regarding the 100 vote pick up yesterday. First I heard a clerk recorded 26 instead of 126, now this article suggest the mistake was a report "called in" of 406 votes instead of 506 votes. hmmm
Why would Palin want to expose her ignorance in the Senate when she could use the time to bone up out of sight? Clearly she spent her school time being cute and playing basketball, not learning geography and world history. But a couple of years, she's a "quick study", she could emerge with more tools in her toolbox.
Mel et al.
For those of you with evidence of likely malfeasance, it's really easy to send in info to the MSM. Just look on NBC, CBS, ABC. I think CBS makes you use their form, but it's long enough to include a link. Now the election is not dominating the airwaves, something like this might get their attention, despite the puppy hunt.
I was listening to C-Span radio today coming home from work. They were discussing the 2010 races for Senate. You can find some info HERE.
Anyways, bottom line, Republicans are defending 19 seats, Democrats 16. The only seat that appears to be competitive on the Dem side is Majority Leader Reid's. Republicans are defending in about 1/2 dozen competitive seats.
So, if Dems don't hit 60 this year, there's a good chance they will get it in two years. This will help Obama tremendously in the later half of his first term and the beginning of his second term in helping pass his health care agenda. And it will be perfect timing also since I don't believe he can tackle healthcare ASAP with the current economic situation.
It's going to be a good eight years.
@Eric
I entirely agree that Obama probably always intended to run for President, but I don't believe he ran for the Senate in 2004 with the explicit plan of running for Prez in 2008. After all, he started his Senate run well before anyone had thought of inviting him to give the keynote speech at the convention. That he always had in mind eight years in the Senate before a 2012 run seems very believable, but then events conspired to make it possible to run much earlier.
That's very different from running for the Senate with a specific plan of only spending four years there: it's simply evidence of the ability to seize a political moment when it occurs.
This is one of the qualities I most admire in Obama. He has a fantastic ability to sniff the wind and exploit it as it changes direction. (As a Brit, I'm glad he's not an Olympic yachtsman, or we wouldn't win any medals in 2012.)
He is still a bit of an unknown. We don't know whether he's really a centrist or a leftist.
He is eloquent enough and persuasive enough to be able to effectively redefine the political centre as where he is; his decision to use the Rev Wright thing as a "teachable moment" and deliver an intellectually rigorous analysis of the current state of racial politics in America rather than use conventional political denial techniques suggests that he has every intention of creating his own political framework, much as Reagan or Thatcher did nearly 30 years ago.
I anticipate there being Obama Doctrines not just in foreign policy but on a large number of other subjects, vouchsafed to the nation at almost exactly the moment when his desired change of direction has the best chance of being accepted.
I shall also be incredibly surprised if he manages to make remarks as spectacularly ill-timed as "The fundamentals of our economy remain strong" or making a noise about the misuse of campaign funds to visit a grandmother whose death was announced a matter of hours later.
Timing in politics is everything, and I've seen very few operators whose timing is as brilliant as Obama's.
If people seriously want to nominate Palin for the presidency, they're out of their mind. Do they not realize she would do even worse than McCain? She turns off all Democrats and independents, and is a ticket-killer in swing states. I just can't comprehend people thinking she could win any more than the Bible/Mormon belt.
Hopefully we get a new Majority Leader in place of Reid. We all know the republicans will feel superior for knocking him off if he's the leader, even if we personally don't care. It'll be just like Daschle in 2004.
badgerhair,
I think there's a good chance that with Obama's victory, the 2016 Games will end up in Chicago. They're not the favorite, just a guess as to how it will play out now. I know '12 is in London. If you read his books, specifically Audacity of Hope, you'd get the sens that he's right in between centrist and lefty. He recognized while in the Senate, the politically expedient thing to do was vote Left most of the time since his biggest challenge for the Presidency was going to be hillary and his biggest challenge within the Senate was to build his bonafides with his Senior Dem colleagues. He also recognizes this country is prepared to go left of center, but not way left of center. The right prescription for what ails us is slightly left of center. He'll want to do what's best. The country will be happy with it, the Congress will be, and it's right for the country. On almost all fronts, I'd bet he governs slightly left of center. My best guess. I've been watching the election like a hawk.
Vinny said...
If people seriously want to nominate Palin for the presidency, they're out of their mind. Do they not realize she would do even worse than McCain? She turns off all Democrats and independents, and is a ticket-killer in swing states. I just can't comprehend people thinking she could win any more than the Bible/Mormon belt.
Agreed to an extent. Remember though 2005-2006 is what sunk the Pubs. Our country gave them the benefit of the doubt in 2004. That was over by 2006.
i'm slightly dubious, still, that a 3000+ margin be overcome ... what if all these votes are military personnel? not likely they'll break blue
I am slightly perturbed with the Lieberman apologists. No, he did not do anything wrong with supporting McCain for president and campaigning with him. He is certainly entitled to do so under the first amendment. It doesn't matter that he caucused with the Dems and received a chairmanship for it.
The fact of the matter is that, Dems are not obligated to give him a chairmanship. Chairmanships are reserved for the party in power. He is an Independent and regulated to minority status in his current position. To be presumptuous and expect a chairmanship as a minority member is preposterous. He deserves to be ostracized from the party caucus; for he has been proven to be untrustworthy with a democratic agenda.
Don't jump on me about how the Dems used him to be a majority party n 2006. It goes both ways. He used them too. Unfortunately for him, they don't need him now as much as he needs them.
Whether or not they get to 60, Lieberman's "leverage" is severely diminished, because the question now is not positions of authority regarding majority party and chairs, it becomes a matter of breaking a filibuster only. Many Repubs in liberal states will side with the Dems in a filibuster vote just to appear bipartisan with their constituents.
Dems will have many options to follow through on their agenda, versus those in the minority who have only a filibuster to try to thwart it. Lieberman has no leverage and deserves what he gets.
Vinny said...
Even at the worst, we're not bad off. We have 57 seats, and we can easily pick off lovely RINO's like Snowe, Collins, Specter (Look how much Obama won PA and ME by) and yes, even McCain.
Oh yeah, it'll be fine. There is a definite limit of how much the Republicans can filibuster without looking like a pack of prats to a sizable chuck of the electorate (setting aside ditto-head true believers and such).
Matt's right about now being the time to strike, not wait for 60 to happen down the road. Further, twiddling thumbs now and not accomplishing things is a sure way to NOT pick up seats later.
-----
As for new on the scene with an outside chance of the R nomination in 2012 if he goes for it there is Bobby Jindal, Gov of LA (and there are signs he's laying the groundwork for it with engagements outside his state). He's a Governor and has the "me too" marketing angle of being not white (Indian-American). Though he's aligned himself on the fiscal conservative side, though he is a very strongly pro-Life (converted from Hinduism to Roman Catholic) and he's all about Intelligent Design in schools. :/
Add say Tom Ridge to the ticket (to have a shot at PA) he might make be able to make some noise.
P.S. He's espoused a "no earmark" stance as Gov though ironically as a House Rep. from LA he was in the top 5% of earmark mavens.
Eric,
In a way, I'm not so much interested in from where he governs as in whether he redefines the terms of political trade by shifting the centre of gravity to where he governs.
Neither Clinton nor Blair were able to shift things the way Reagan and Thatcher had done. Blair didn't even try, in my view, but Clinton may just not have been able to.
The USA may be ready to move slightly left of centre right now: the historical test on Obama will be whether it's just a temporary move until times get better and once he's gone you simply revert or whether he recasts American politics for a generation.
My head hurts looking at that analysis. I hope you are right.
We have 2 votes parked in district 35 waiting to be counted I hope.
The delay in counting stems from the primary - they found a few double voters (early/ mail and in person)
If an Alaskan voted by mail in the primary I believe they automatically received a ballot by mail for the general - we both did and they are uncounted until later.
I hope this pans out. For me it has nothing to do with 60 - it has to do with ridding ourselves of Stevens...
So what's the r2 for that scatterplot? It looks pretty strong.
@tylerxdurden
Bobby Jindal I think would be a great bait, I mean candidate, for the Repubs to run in 2012. I personally do like him (I'm an independent and have voted for Repubs quite a few times). However, I seriously doubt the GOP is ready for a minority candidate who is also catholic). As a catholic, I am well informed on the religious bigotry within the GOP.
Most importantly, as a minority (Latino) I know the pervasive anti-immigrant ideology. The GOP is NOT going to nominate a Catholic minority.
We have to look outside of the spectrum of current front runners to foresee the direction of the Republican party. I would like then to move more center (ie., Ridge, Casey, Jr., Romney) but it is my opinion that is not going to happen.
Expect a relative unknown with staunch conservative credentials.
From looking at the freeptards, they assume the only way they can revive the party is to nominate a "true conservative" like Palin. LMFAO! At this rate, 2012 will be like taking candy from a baby.
If anything, they better start getting more moderate than McCain was. Nobody wants conservatism, besides states worth about...150 EVs.
Nate is everywhere on TV these days. Go Nate!
Not sure if people have said this but CNN has called WA-08 for Republican Reichert.
@Gen Sherman
You are right about him having a lot of problems with the Religious wing of the GOP, and the KKK-lite faction. That for most evangelicals the RCC isn't even regarded as truly "Christian". That's why I think it'd be a real battle for him. He seems to have pulled it off in LA though, I assumed he had enough mojo to be able to skate through on pro-Life and ID classes. *shrug*
I had a line in my post about him probably having as many issues with the "Palin" wing as McCain did. I probably should have left that in. So I guess Ridge wouldn't really be a choice for him, he'd have to find himself another bulldog with lipstick (and pray he draws a better one than McCain did).
I agree completely that only a true social conservative can win in 2012. If John McCain had been a real conservative, he would have won 43 states...
*cough*
*uncontrollable laughter*
*cough*
Anyway, yeah. The GOP should totally nominate Bible Spice in 2012. Like, totally.
wv: beggled - Democrats beggled the GOP to run Sarah Palin in 2012, which is how Barack Obama won 48 states in his reelection bid.
Yes! I posted on an earlier thread that Begich had a decent chance. Nice to see Nate do an analysis.
I am particularly pleased that rural Alaska voted for Begich, including my district (#37). There is a great PDF file posted at the Anchorage Daily News - www.adn.com - scroll down 'til you see a little blue map of Alaska. Its a map showing the vote by state house district, and its a sea of blue with red islands. The red areas are the Mat-Su borough, district 12 from Delta Junction to Valdez, and the Kenai, and Ketchikan. Anchorage is split, as is Fairbanks.
One of the difficulties even strong Dem candidates have in statewide elections is that Alaska is just so huge, and the Democrat areas are spread out. A Republican can basically ignore everything outside the Railbelt, but a Dem has to cover a geographical area 1/3rd the size of the Lower 48. That's costly, particularly in time.
Vinny said... "If people seriously want to nominate Palin for the presidency, they're out of their mind."
We said Thanks, but No Thanks, to that bitch from nowhere!
I'm sure this has been posted somewhere here already, but just in case:
http://rebuildtheparty.com/
Between the infighting and some liberal "trolling," it's quite entertaining. Make sure to visit the ideas section. The truly best ones [like "be more inclusive"] are getting completely taken apart. Gotta love it.
BONUS: the site is really atrocious looking. I need to head back to barackobama.com to cleanse my eyeballs.
So sad about Reichert winning/Burner's loss, I really thought this one would flip.
Hey y'all, check out the new Obama site:
www.change.gov
(careful, change.com like whitehouse.com is a soft porn site)
Eric said...
Here's the problem Palin would have as a Senator, her 99 collegaues would find out how much of a dimwit or not she really is. you can't hide in the Senate. She knows that. She knows what she doesn't know and would not be gutsy enough to hang out in the Senate for a couple years and then run for Prez in 2012. She'd be eaten alive and she knows it.
After reading Newsweek's "Secrets of the 2008 Campaign", I don't think she knows what she doesn't know. She didn't realize how ignorant she'd look running for VP, but she was gutsy enough to do that. It seems like she really thinks she is ready for the national stage, even after this election. Or maybe especially after this election, because now she has foreign policy experience after speaking to that French Sarkosy guy also. You betcha.
wv; verburr - Winter in Vermont.
I don't think a front runner for 2012 will be clear until the repuke's decide who they are.
The upcoming republican civil war will decide that, if they wisely jettison the fundie nutbags, than Palin is toast.
There is a very real chance that the republican party will only be a slightly strong 3rd party by then.
David said...
i'm slightly dubious, still, that a 3000+ margin be overcome ... what if all these votes are military personnel? not likely they'll break blue
I'm pretty sure Begich actually won the military bases overall. My opinion was that the military personnel are overall less likely to be life-long Alaskans, and hence less blindly loyal to Stevens. Also, I think that military personnel have a rather well-developed sense of right and wrong, and many would be disgusted with themselves if they voted for a convicted felon.
[I live in district 22, in east Anchorage]
As the rest of the country has learned, Alaska is quite different from the rest of the country politically. We will put up with vast amounts of corruption and we tend to reelect incumbents [especially to Congress] until they resign or die. Democrats are elected fairly often, but often it's because the Republicans can't stop bickering and a couple of conservatives split the vote, allowing the Dem to sail to victory. Unless you were born here, you face an uphill battle to election - I heard arguments against Berkowitz based on his relatively short time living in Alaska (he's been here since 1991). All in all, a crazy state, and I sincerely hope the vote counts wind up making sense this time.
The repubs cannot decide who they are the folks in the primaries will. Hucka bee will be in Iowa in about 12 days and the Indian gov of LA will there two days later. Romney seems to be leading all the early polls.
Take home? Jindal is unlikely to break through, and the repubs will stay essentially the same as they are now, which is great for dems. They need a transformational figure like Obama. That could be Arnold Schwarzenegger, if only he could run - he is not eligible, he is not native born. The repubs are likely to get killed in 2012. The 2016 election is realy yht enext shot, and they need someone who is not on the hational radar to step up.
Can we get a post on demographic changes in the electorate, and the country, to see how firm this new dem argument is about changing politics forever by winning the immigrants, new voters, and the youth.
My guess for the nominee in 2012: Newt Gingrich.
One thing I can't figure out: the presidential results for North Dakota and South Dakota were virtually identical: 53%-45%. ... which is kind of odd after all the attention given to ND this cycle, while SD was largely ignored.
Any thoughts?
Nate? Anyone?
I don't think the polls were close in SD. They were in ND. Obama essentially underperformed in the north, and came in about the poll average in the south.
Palin think - if South Dakotais a state, isn't South Africa?
just a thought on Lieberman.
If you want Martin to win a run-off, then toss Lieberman now.
That way no-one can argue that electing Martin would give a filibuster proof senate.
Will the Franken/Coleman race be recounted before the GA run-off?
yes, very likely. MN will confirm Coleman as the winner on the 14th or so, the recount should not take a month, maybe a week or two.
"Uncounted Votes May Push Begich Past Stevens"
what a wonderful morning news.
-----Obama's Surge-------
balls explode!!!!!!!!!!
Liebeman will likely still caucus with the dems, but he will lose his chairmanship.
Where si Real Joe? Even if he is against gay marriage and hate illegal immigrants, I still likr the guy.
Who did your CEO support? Find out here!
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=clooney&fname=george&search=Search
fred said...
Where si Real Joe? Even if he is against gay marriage and hate illegal immigrants, I still likr the guy.
November 8, 2008 5:10 AM
***********
I co-sign.
A message for Real-Joe:
Real-Joe,I know you are out there,please,shop up.
wv:Real Joe
...just kidding
;)
The "mutt" comment looks to be historic. Will he forever be known as the mutt?
great site!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/
Where do you go now that the fun is over?
fred said...
The "mutt" comment looks to be historic. Will he forever be known as the mutt?
November 8, 2008 5:18 AM
**************
Sorry,I missed that.
I Real Joe mode :damn!
;)
see last line.
Obama:
"With respect to the dog, this is a major issue. I think it's generated more interest on our Web site than just about anything.
We have -- we have two criteria that have to be reconciled. One is that Malia is allergic, so it has to be hypoallergenic. There are a number of breeds that are hypoallergenic.
On the other hand, our preference would be to get a shelter dog, but, obviously, a lot of shelter dogs are mutts like me. So -- so whether we're going to be able to balance those two things I think is a pressing issue on the Obama household."
@Fred.
but I didn't miss that "He" comment about the Marine's cook.
It cracked me in pieces.
LOL.
I gotta go.
see you.
:)
fred said...
see last line.
November 8, 2008 5:32 AM
thanks Fred,
I saved it.
aloha.
aloha
cell phone only voters much higher than expected 20%!!!!
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/politics/ny-bc-polls-cellphones1107nov07,0,7248380.story
- Age 18-29 (41 percent cell-only): Slight differences. Obama beat Republican John McCain 67 percent to 31 percent among cell-only, 62-36 among those with landlines.
- Age 30-39 (23 percent cell-only): Obama preferred by 27 points (63-36) among the cell-only, but only had a 4-point edge (51-47) among those with landlines at home.
- Age 40-44 (14 percent cell-only): Obama by 10 (54-44) among cell-only; McCain by 51-47 among those with landlines.
IT`s possible that Obama could win an LBJ type landslide in 2012 assuming that things improve from the state we are in. If the economy improves and we are not in any major war it may be any republican will be a sacrifice in 2012.
If Begich actually wins this will really throw a wrench in Palins plans because we know she will run and win Stevens seat in a special election.
Oh well more time to study geography!
I hope you're right about the absentees, but that seems to be making a really big assumption that absentee ballots will behave something like early vote totals. Traditionally, haven't absentee ballots favored Republicans?
Does anyone know how absentee totals have broken in Alaska in the past, compared to same-day voting?
@tom
not sure how meaningful it would be to compare this election's past absentee ballots with past ones. There are two many differences in the election context - Palin standing for VP, Stevens's felony conviction, national shift towards the Democrats, demographic changes etc etc
@Andy JS
Yes, I have no idea why the official totals are *still* not updated, but I am sure it is Hillborough's fault somehow.
I agree, I think the absentee ballots are a big asumption. The absentee ballots up there could be from folks who cannot get topolls because they live in the middle of nowhere - those are Stevens voters.
A righties view of an Obama administration - but I think it could be correct.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/opinion/07brooks.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin
ed-e
thanks for the link
http://rebuildtheparty.com/
hilarious
my favorite comment so far is regarding who to allow in the party.
comment: NO Muslins
Who knew that they even discriminate against certain fabrics? I'm sure polyester is very welcome.
"The race is too close too call"
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsider/2008/10/mccain-pollster-too-close-to-c.html
eve-
After Palin's shopping spree, they are much more fashion conscience.
oops - conscious.
Could the polling be off in Alaska because some voters were going to vote against Stevens then Palin gave them the nod to vote for him by saying that she would not say if she did or didn't vote for Stevens????
No way Palin mattered in Stevens vote.
fred -- yes, I'm forgetting the Neiman's tour.
Red State is doin' our job for us:
"Actually, the only "worrisome question" is whether the Republican Party understands this. Democrats may or may not understand this but Democrats run as the party that believes big government ain't so bad. To the extent that Republicans ape Democrats, Republicans lose. And "compassionate conservatism" has not been about pursuing conservatism. Rather, it has been about telling the public "we Republicans are not so bad because we are kinda sorta like the Democrats."
In an electoral contest between fake Democrats and real ones, the real ones win. This year was no different."
If the repubs go right on all issues they are done. LEt's hope James Dobson completes the implosion of the modern republican party by insisting on unsale-able right wing evangelical ideas. Come on James, finish the job you started. I think he will, his group has already compared Obama's win to a Nazi bombing.
Nate & Co. --
Just wanted to pass this along in case you hadn't seen it. It's a cartogram which shows the U.S. map in proportion to electoral votes as opposed to geography, color coded to show the results of the presidential election.
http://www.sciencefriday.com/videos/watch/10176/
Enjoy! And thanks again for everything here at 538!
WOOHOO! Polling data! Most approve of OBama so far. LOL!
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
You can predict Rasmusen poll reuslts:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/video/predict_our_next_survey_results
What are the coming changes to 538?
Is Gingrich like Jimmy Johnson in football? Never gonna run, even though it seems like he should. Probably has too much baggage.
3 reasonable choices:
Gingrich, Romney, Petraeus
Jindal is Obama-lite. Would Petraeus have those kind of aspirations? If he does, would he wait until 2016 with no obvious incumbent?
Patraeus might be the man from the wilderness the repubs need:
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/002317.php
Lets hope he doesn't run.
I think all the other repubs out there now are too dependent on the James Dobson wing of the party, and that wing cannot win a general election - but they sure can deliver the party a right wing nut on the ticket via the primaries.
Pssst said...
One thing I can't figure out: the presidential results for North Dakota and South Dakota were virtually identical: 53%-45%. ... which is kind of odd after all the attention given to ND this cycle, while SD was largely ignored.
Any thoughts?
Nate? Anyone?
---------------------------------------
The main reason is that there were hardly any polls conducted in South Dakota, so there was no way of knowing one way or the other. There were only 8 polls published all year from SD, according to RCP. There were slightly more in ND, (but not many more).
Tom & fred:
An earlier poster explained that Alaska is Opposites World. Far flung is Dem leaning, Republican in more concentrated.
I think this is the quote of the day:
Craig Shirley, a conservative consultant, argued that the party needed "to start getting about the task of what they are for," and said of the RNC memos, "You got to pick your fights. It is almost like the RNC is in desperate need of adult supervision."
that "desparate need of adult supervision" should be saved for a 2012 ad!
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