11.04.2008

Ten Reasons Why You Should Ignore Exit Polls

Oh, let me count the ways. Almost all of this, by the way, is lifted from Mark Bluemthnal's outstanding Exit Poll FAQ. For the long version, see over there.

1. Exit polls have a much larger intrinsic margin for error than regular polls. This is because of what are known as cluster sampling techniques. Exit polls are not conducted at all precincts, but only at some fraction thereof. Although these precincts are selected at random and are supposed to be reflective of their states as a whole, this introduces another opportunity for error to occur (say, for instance, that a particular precinct has been canvassed especially heavily by one of the campaigns). This makes the margins for error somewhere between 50-90% higher than they would be for comparable telephone surveys.

2. Exit polls have consistently overstated the Democratic share of the vote. Many of you will recall this happening in 2004, when leaked exit polls suggested that John Kerry would have a much better day than he actually had. But this phenomenon was hardly unique to 2004. In 2000, for instance, exit polls had Al Gore winning states like Alabama and Georgia (!). If you go back and watch The War Room, you'll find George Stephanopolous and James Carville gloating over exit polls showing Bill Clinton winning states like Indiana and Texas, which of course he did not win.

3. Exit polls were particularly bad in this year's primaries. They overstated Barack Obama's performance by an average of about 7 points.

4. Exit polls challenge the definition of a random sample. Although the exit polls have theoretically established procedures to collect a random sample -- essentially, having the interviewer approach every nth person who leaves the polling place -- in practice this is hard to execute at a busy polling place, particularly when the pollster may be standing many yards away from the polling place itself because of electioneering laws.

5. Democrats may be more likely to participate in exit polls. Related to items #1 and #4 above, Scott Rasmussen has found that Democrats supporters are more likely to agree to participate in exit polls, probably because they are more enthusiastic about this election.

6. Exit polls may have problems calibrating results from early voting. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, exit polls will attempt account for people who voted before election day in most (although not all) states by means of a random telephone sample of such voters. However, this requires the polling firms to guess at the ratio of early voters to regular ones, and sometimes they do not guess correctly. In Florida in 2000, for instance, there was a significant underestimation of the absentee vote, which that year was a substantially Republican vote, leading to an overestimation of Al Gore's share of the vote, and contributing to the infamous miscall of the state.

7. Exit polls may also miss late voters. By "late" voters I mean persons who come to their polling place in the last couple of hours of the day, after the exit polls are out of the field. Although there is no clear consensus about which types of voters tend to vote later rather than earlier, this adds another way in which the sample may be nonrandom, particularly in precincts with long lines or extended voting hours.

8. "Leaked" exit poll results may not be the genuine article. Sometimes, sources like Matt Drudge and Jim Geraghty have gotten their hands on the actual exit polls collected by the network pools. At other times, they may be reporting data from "first-wave" exit polls, which contain extremely small sample sizes and are not calibrated for their demographics. And at other places on the Internet (though likely not from Gergahty and Drudge, who actually have reasonably good track records), you may see numbers that are completely fabricated.

9. A high-turnout election may make demographic weighting difficult. Just as regular, telephone polls are having difficulty this cycle estimating turnout demographics -- will younger voters and minorities show up in greater numbers? -- the same challenges await exit pollsters. Remember, an exit poll is not a definitive record of what happened at the polling place; it is at best a random sampling.

10. You'll know the actual results soon enough anyway. Have patience, my friends, and consider yourselves lucky: in France, it is illegal to conduct a poll of any kind within 48 hours of the election. But exit polls are really more trouble than they're worth, at least as a predictive tool. An independent panel created by CNN in the wake of the Florida disaster in 2000 recommended that the network completely ignore exit polls when calling particular states. I suggest that you do the same.

240 comments

nick said...

fifififirst!

Wasalker said...

great comments

Law School Cynic said...

Will the leaked exit poll data be posted at 538 throughout the day?

James said...

I can wait another twelve hours.

nick said...

also, Nate, as for them "overstating" Democratic votes... how much of that can be chalked up to allegedly suppressed/purged/outright stolen votes? I.e. I went in and voted Dem, came out and said I did, but my ballot never wound up getting treated like it should have?

Tracy said...

Speaking from my personal experience with exit polling, if the polling is done in person, those polling are far more likely to ask someone they think will answer.

livemild said...

who can resist exit polls! i know i cant.

i still think they were right with gore and kerry.

CRLIndoland said...

Going to bed, but just wanted to say have fun for the next 10 hours and kick ass Obama!

Euphronius said...

I would like to see an analysis from 538.com of exit polling in elections that Karl Rove does not participate in.

seems odd to me that exit polls should be so off (and they always over represent democrats? interesting).

another question I have: if exit polls are unreliable, what reliable indicator if election fraud do we have?

Dave said...

It was my understanding that exit polls used to be very accurate, almost always predicting the actual election outcome, but that has changed in the last couple of elections.

neuroskeptic said...

Yeah - forget the exit polls but don't forget to get down to the actual polls!

aribamos said...

On the other, in France, the election is called as soon as polls close, literally immediately. Their exit polls must be more valid than ours...

Abel said...
This post has been removed by the author.
MysticLaker said...

bring em on...I don't like to learn from my mistakes.

Clark Miller said...

Exit polls are not the only ones that have trouble with early voters!

How do pollsters ensure that their polls reflect the electorate? They weight by demographic variables so that their sample, when adjusted, matches a model of what the electorate looks like (e.g., has the right proportion of people in various age, income, and racial categories). Then they apply a likely voter model to create a sample of people they think will actually vote.

But what if over half your sample has voted already, as it has in three recent polls by Survey USA in Florida, North Carolina, and Georgia, where 58%, 57%, and 56% of the sample, respectively, have already voted? This creates havoc with the pollster’s estimates. What happens, for example, as has happened this year, the demographics of those folks who have already voted differs dramatically from the demographics of the projected electorate? In this case, blacks, especially, have voted in dramatically higher numbers then they are represented in the total population, or in models of the voter population from prior elections.

A pollster now has a choice. How should the poll take this into account? Either one can adjust the model of the electorate to account for a higher proportion of voters whose demographics match early voters, or one can force the rest of the sample to make up for the disproportionate number of early voters by over-weighting the demographics of not-yet-voted likely voters to bring the overall sample back into line with the original model.

The latter choice appears to be what Survey USA has done. In Georgia, for example, the poll has an overall representation of 26% black in its likely voter sample, which is the percentage of blacks who turned out to vote in the state in 2004. But, among early voters in Georgia, 35% were black. Thus, since the sample of early voters in the Survey USA poll likely over-weights black voters (by 9% compared to the 2004 figure of 26%), the sample of not-yet-voted likely voters must over-weight white voters enough to compensate to bring the total percentage of blacks in the sample down to 26%.

Thus, it is not surprising that Survey USA thinks that, while early voters have gone for Obama in Georgia (50-48), not-yet-voted likely voters will go for McCain (57-39). The same thing happens in North Carolina: where Survey USA shows early voters have gone for Obama (56-41), the model projects that not-yet-voted likely voters will break for McCain (59-36). And in Florida: where Survey USA shows early voters have gone for Obama (58-40), the model projects that not-yet-voted likely voters will break for McCain (56-38).

In short, Survey USA’s data assumes that the electorate looks similar to 2004. If, like me, you don’t believe that’s likely to be true, based on who has already voted, then you are probably justified in assuming that Tuesday’s voters are unlikely to break anywhere near as dramatically for McCain in these states as Survey USA suggests. If that’s true, game over.

Juris said...

Got my earplugs in to avoid "exit poll noise." Problem is, this also blocks out other information.

I'm mainly tuned into turnout reports, which also are often overestimates. But this time seems to be different.

reelgeist said...

From a Democratic perspective, there are two practical reasons to ignore them:

a) What happens in Virginia in the Presidential race does not affect the outcome Congressional races and down ballot issues like Prop 8 in California.

b) The goal is a popular vote mandate, and not only an electoral win. Obama winning by slim majorities in the swing states is still a win, but Obama winning by 55 to 45 against McCain is a landslide in the popular vote. It changes the post-election narrative about why Obama won.

Brad said...

Are we sure exit polls are not correct? Why the cjange in exit polling accuracy? They used to be reliable...now they over-represent dems? Seems strange change in voter behavior, to me.

purplesaurus rex said...

Just voted for Obama, in PA! Our polling place is mostly for college kids, and the campus shuttles hadn't started running yet, so I was one of maybe 3 or 4 people there at the time - no wait whatsoever.

After following this race so closely for "litaily" (wv) the past year, it's such a relief to finally get to have my tiny little say in the outcome of things. Now to sit back and watch that sweet, sweet data come pouring in.

zzyzx said...

Yes you're completely right about this.


...but it still doesn't mean I won't be reading any exit poll I can find once they're released...

MysticLaker said...

i would watch intrade today...

RWD said...

"They used to be reliable...now they over-represent dems?"

They were never reliable. Read all the other points Nate talks about. They're terrible polls, period.

Corinthian leather said...

The intense suspense is too much for me to watch the results tonight. I intend to go see a movie, go to bed, wake up, and hopefully see that Mr. Obama has won. Then again... I also leave room for some crazy story where miraculously, Mccain somehow pulled off a "miracle". God I hope not.

fullbodytransplant said...

Nate, you were magnificent last night explaining this to Keith. Grand slam.

Eye candy for voting day:

http://fullbodytransplant.wordpress.com/2008/11/02/obama-for-the-arts/

Voted in Miami this morning with a lawyer observing the whole thing!

Good times.

Matt said...

Showed up at my Chicago polling places at 6:01am and there was a line 40 people deep. Poll workers were moving slow and we didn't have enough of the special pens for the ballot, so it took me almost an hour to get in. Hopefully they'll get the kinks out before the lines get REALLY long. The crowed skewed slightly younger than my neighborhood demographic, but perhaps the old folks voted early.

Accidental Hippie said...

I live in Florida. I am intrigued by the number of my Republican coworkers who voted for Bob Barr over McCain. Local radio is also noticing this. I think that is great for Obama!

Christopher said...

Well said, Nate!

...and yet here I sit waiting for those exit polls :-)

Brad said...

MAJOR voting problems in VA, less serious in MI and PA!!!

http://blog.ourvotelive.org/


GOTV! Don't let them steal this one!

Jessica said...

Exit polls are very useful for keeping the precinct honest. In 2004 when there was trouble with the electronic voting machines and paper trails, that was the first step towards finding the problem. If the exit polls of that polling place didn't match the output, there's a problem.

cyndie1030 said...

So I assume we need to wait until actual results are counted. Will they let us know whether the projection when they call a state is based on actual votes or exit polling?

reelgeist said...

CLARK MILLER:

I agree completely with your post. Rather than questioning their likely voter model, they are adjusting the numbers to exclude the idea that 2008 isn't like 2004. Even if one doesn't know precisely who voted for whom in 2008, one can tell that the early vote is already significantly different from 2004 in terms of the composition of the vote. Now, one can make various argument- that likely voter composition was a matter of time shifting to early voting so it will not matter, but that becomes increasingly just guess work. This is true especially considering 100,000 of the new voters in NC are in the early voting were in fact voters who registered during the early vote rather than previous to their voting.

curious said...

report voting problems by phone: 1 866 our vote

It's the election protection hotline: http://www.866ourvote.org/

Freddie said...

Nate,
I have always wondered who checks the computer programs in the polling machines to make sure that the options chosen at the touch screen are actually the ones stored in memory for that voter? Is the source code made available to some representatives from both parties to verify and debug for bugs?

Also when the data stored in the voting machines memory cards is transfered is verification made that the memory blocks transfer properly, the file headers don't get corrupted and if they do is there an alarm or error log given? Is there a paper record kept of each ballot cast?

I am just very skeptical of these machines and the errors that continue to be reported. A lot of questions from a concerned individual :)

walt526 said...

It was my understanding that exit polls used to be very accurate, almost always predicting the actual election outcome, but that has changed in the last couple of elections.

Each network used to run their own exit polls, but in 2000 they switched to a single one run by the AP. The polls pre-2000 weren't necessarily any better than the current ones, but there were more of them which allowed the networks to more easily sniff out the outliers. For example, if ABC had a 12% margin but NBC and CBS showed only a 3%, then ABC would hold off on calling a state just based on its exit poll until enough precincts reported to substantiate the result.

grandpa john said...

In reading the comments,on other threads I noted several that mentioned a "christmas morning excitement". Well I must admit that even an old (71) fart like me sort of has that feeling, but then why shouldn't we? We are getting an enormous present today, we are getting our country, our self respect, the respect of the rest of the world back. we are getting the future of our children, our grandchildren,in my case great grandchildren returned to us, so it is a time for rejoicing.
At my age with relatively few years left, I now feel that I can leave the stage knowing the the future of
my grands and great grands looks more secure. I really think that we are going to see a whole new vision of what our country can be and what can be accomplished. I feel more positive for the future than I have in Years. Every time I listen to the one speak and listen to his words, I realize what a truly transcendent and visionary leader he is rather than being a mere politician. The messages of hope and togetherness that echo FDR and JFK during times of great peril.So tonight let let not just party, but have a true celebration of the return of constitutional governing, of rule of law, of competent government and more importantly hope for a better future.

Grant Buell said...

The typo of Blumenthal is epic. How did you pull that off?

Good post, by the way. I hope extremely generous exit poll numbers for Obama don't make anyone complacent.

Joshua said...

There's a slight problem in your argument. Sometimes (there are times), exit polling can be used to indicate whether the count was accurate or fraudulent. Big case in point: Ukraine in 2004/2005 and it's Orange Revolution. Exit polling showed Yushchenko as the winner, "official" count showed Yanukovich as the winner.

David Tate said...

Sometimes, it's a simple question of privacy views. Republicans are more likely (ceteris paribus) to think that who they voted for is nobody else's business. That's enough to skew exit polls all by itself.

rob said...

Would you care to comment on the use of large-sample exit polls as the international gold standard for gauging foul play/ fraud in elections?

DCM in FL said...

The lowest national polls spread are now R2000 + Hotline @ 5% Obama lead

who would have thought even one month or a week agao that R2000 would be the pollster with the smallest spread on election day ?

or that anyone would be anxious if Obama had 'only' a 5% national lead on 11/4

a gloomy day weatherwise here in central FL

I voted early, but am going to drive to my local precinct poll @ city hall in a few minutes to check out the turnout

in the afternoon, I am on call as a volunteer to drive people to the polls if needed

BUT when I was in the local DEM HQ yesterday, they had so many volunteers that they might not even need my help !!!

FL is going BLUE !!!

unless the state GOPer machine manages to steal another election anyway - then there will be hell to pay !!!

Mrs B said...

"ceteris paribus"??????

Lindsay said...

Like any poll, an exit poll is only as good as its methodology. It's more than possible to have a pretty accurate exit poll if they have used a good method for selecting which locations to poll at. That said, you SHOULD NOT trust exit polls numbers that are leaked early in the day, because unless you have data from the full spectrum of voters from the whole day, your data is likely to be unrepresentative. So when Drudge posts numbers around 5 PM saying McCain's ahead by 2 points, don't get your knickers in a bunch.

mizack2 said...

more wet ballots in VA

The Game said...

Intrade has Obama at 92.5...is that a high for him?

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

Just got done voting in Fake Virginia. I got to use a paper ballot. We voted in a church (boo!) and the election officials were quite grumpy.

I chose to use a paper ballot. The optical scanner was ALREADY broken at 9 a.m., but my ballot is safely within the box and available for recounting.

Lines were non-existent, plenty of voting stations. Count two votes for Obama/Biden, two votes for Senator-Elect Mark Warner and two votes for Representitive James Moran!

Badgerhair said...

ceteris paribus = the rest being equal

Benjamin said...

Exit polls are for really impatient people.

ScottGA said...

Thank you grandpa john.

Loralee said...

Just got this from Martin Heinrich, Dem candidate for NM's 1st congressional district (mostly Albuquerque):

We're getting reports that Republican turnout across the district is higher than expected. I need your help. First, go to your polling place and vote. And, then, please, pick up the phone and call at least 5 friends or family members and remind them to vote!

Make sure that they know that a vote for Darren White is a vote of confidence in the failed policies of George Bush and Dick Cheney.

It's now or never, New Mexico. Stand with Barack Obama, Tom Udall and myself. Vote for change.

Martin

Subterranean said...

Ceteris paribus.

It's a quick way of saying that you're making a simplifying assumption about the prior probabilites in question.

Mrs B said...

@badgerhair
I do know what ceteris paribus means (O level Latin, don't you know) but I am boggling at the idea of someone using it in a post! Term paper maybe, post: amazing! But then this is a special day.

wv haties - not going there!

Radical_Center said...

Here's my 'Just Voted' Report...

From Snellville, GA (Motto: "Where Everybody's Somebody"), exoburbs of Atlanta - Earlybird voters like my neighbor who I saw while in line reported 90 minute waits. I fed my 10 month old son before heading to our local polling place and found the line to be a manageable 50-60 minutes long at 8:40am, and by the time i cast my vote, the line was down to 35-45 minutes long. A far cry from 2004 (at a different, much larger precinct) where the line made Space Mountain look like white glove concierge service. My wait then was ~2.5 hours.

wv: chositu - when you can mark more than one candidtate on a ballot.

Seretse said...

What is the best network to watch returns?

mizack2 said...

I wish I had a grandparent who knew how to use the internet...

penumbralheart said...

only exit polls worth watching are on Comedy Central. =)

seriously, we've waited this long--and it was really long this time...it seems like campaigns started in Dec 2006.

why not just ignore that data a few more hours.

after that disastrous debacle in 2000 i have zero interest in the great network race to be number one in declaring the winner.

*shudder*

regardless of what lessons were claimed to have been learned then...i'll just be patient a while longer.

tangible numbers taste better, kinda like beer you can't see through.

DaWolf said...

you can list all of them Nate but I'd still trust the 2004 Ohio exit polls ahead of the actual count. That election was stolen.

Listen to my Hype said...

VOTED TODAY FOR OBAMA IN ORLANDO!!!! There was a slight line, and who cares, I was there as long as I needed to be. Was in and out in an hour. We had optical scanners and I had all my stuff including my attitude ready incase there was an issue. None at all. I didn't like that I didn't get a receipt once scanned or that it didn't show who I voted for, but the machine showed that my vote "counted".

I put my Obama pin on as soon as it was scanned and walked nice and slow down the line, got some cheers and comments on "wish I had a button" whooooohoooooo!

CAN'T WAIT GO OBAMA GO!!!

Stephen C. Rose said...

I am familiar with Edoson and feel this is overdrawn. I will be looking at exit polls essentially to determine if a landslide is in progress. That and early figures from the East should tell the tale very soon. Ultmately I believe the polls will not tell the story. The main elements will be what people do today and everyone can guess. Exit polls will be useful in finding out if our guesses are possibly accurate. My own guess is Obama well beyond the number polls have suggested. 400 plus. No problem being deemed a fool if I am wrong.

Hank Gillette said...

I voted in Maryland this morning. Took about an hour. It didn’t give me a good feeling though, to vote on a touch screen with no paper trail, and the machine said “Diebold”.

MysticLaker said...

Best buy on Intrade (imho)

McCain 46.8 for Missouri...

DCM in FL said...

BATTLEGROUND is out now...

gotta update my previous post

their topline is 49-44 O+5

but their 'projection' is:

Obama 50.2
McCain 48.3
Barr .9
Nader .6

Obama by only 1.9%

wow - they are cutting it close...

YouGov 51-45

they have an interesting 50 state final poll release out today also
@ http://www.politicshome.com/mobile/UserFiles/pres_senate_2008.pdf

Charlie said...

very long lines during rush this morning around St. Louis. waited one hour, but reports of 3 or more in Central West End and other Dem strongholds. long waits in North County too.

David said...

In the UK General Election in 2005, the BBC's exit poll - conducted in a random selection of Parliamentary Constituencies, in a similar way to the random selection of states in the exit polls today - was not only accurate in terms of the shares of the vote for the main parties, but was also exactly right in predicting Labour's decreased Parliamentary majority (67) - and this must have included factoring in a major third party, Nationalist Parties in Scotland and Wales, and the deferred election in South Staffordshire (where one of the candidates died during the election). Out of 646 seats in the House of Commons, getting it bang on wasn't bad going - if any of these polling companies use a methodology similar to the BBC's poll (and I can't remember which UK Polling Company conducted the poll), then they might be more trustworthy than the others.

Anyway, this British Labour Party election organizer will be watching all-night in London, and hoping that President Obama is returned with a comfortable EC majority!

As for socialism - don't knock it till you're tried it...

WV: astatic - what I'll be (hopefully) when I turn up for work at 8am tomorrow, after being at an all-night election party until 7am

Subterranean said...

A happy snippet from reader feedback on Ben Smith's Politico blog:

"I live in bluest part of Blue NoVA, Alexandria City. In 2004, my polling place went 80-20 for Kerry. 2,886 votes were cast in that election. I got in a long line in the dark this morning at 5:55am, I was voter number 2,531."

WE. WILL. NOT. LOSE.

Adrien S said...

A comment from France :
It's not illegal to conduct a poll on elections eve, it's illegal to publish it.
But look, swiss or belgian french-speaking newspapers publish the polls that keep being made.

On the last presidential election day, in 2007, million of people already knew Sarkozy's victory before it's official, thanks to text messages and some media leaks.

MysticLaker said...

obama 93 on intrade.

Jeff NYC Dem said...

My partner, the neo-con faith voter told me I'm "weakening the country today". To which I replied, "you're a gay catholic republican who's voting for a candidate who would seek to ensure we never have the right to marry, you're voting to weaken our rights today"

Badgerhair said...

Anyway, this British Labour Party election organizer will be watching all-night in London, and hoping that President Obama is returned with a comfortable EC majority!

As for socialism - don't knock it till you're tried it...


But you're in the Labour Party. What would you know of socialism, which hasn't been Labour doctrine since the early 80s?

chanelmi said...

Grnadpa John...you warm my heart

Phil said...

How McCain Could Win (or the real reason polls are often wrong)

http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/19330

lucyp said...

Voted in suburban Baltimore, MD about 9:15 this morning. No line then, tho more cars in the parking lot than I've seen before. And a friend's husband reports a long line at 7 AM.

I took a moment in the voting booth to savor the historical nature of what I'd done. I feel proud, excited, and on tenterhooks now waiting for the final results.

GO OBAMA

P.S. I caught a live feed of the end of Obama's last rally in Manassas, VA last night. Damn, that man can orate! Sent shivers up my spine. And the music they played at the end cracked me up: "Here I am, baby; Signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours!"

@grant buell

Thanks for calling Nate out on the Blumenthal typo. I enjoyed that one,too. It took me a moment or two to work out exactly what had gone wrong there!

mizack2 said...

Jeff NYC Dem said...
My partner, the neo-con faith voter told me I'm "weakening the country today". To which I replied, "you're a gay catholic republican who's voting for a candidate who would seek to ensure we never have the right to marry, you're voting to weaken our rights today"

---------------


Ever seen That old Spike Lee Movie "Get On The Bus?" One of the characters was a Gay Black Republican. LOL

NotYourBlog said...

But you're in the Labour Party. What would you know of socialism, which hasn't been Labour doctrine since the early 80s?

Folks, I think the Brits are about to throw down right here in this thread.

(Which is fine, this thread is moving way too slowly!)

MysticLaker said...

Palin warns of "far left takeover"

HAHA.

Loralee said...

There's a rec'd diary on Daily Kos right now about probable voter intimidation in St. Louis, and the Obama campaign's response.


talli -- Talli ALL the votes!

Jeff NYC Dem said...

Reposeted from the previous thread: Chris said...
Falls Church, VA: voted at 6:15 with about 100 others in line. Things looked well organized, and the line moved briskly. The McCain table in front of the building looked awful lonely.

While I'm an Obama supporter and eager to see him win, I think it's critical that the win come with humility and grace--a characteristic that is generally absent in politics of almost any variety. Make no bones about it: our country is in terrible shape, and this is a pivotal time. We must be able to work together to get things done. We need to be able to listen to each other, appreciate different points of view, and find ways to...um..."git 'r dun." Divisive politics, name calling, and deep seated enmity towards those of other political persuasions must be checked at the door on January 20.

Personally, I think Obama has the potential to do this. For this to work, however, I think it's critical for his supporters not to "rub it in," but rather get to work trying to get this country back on its feet, working WITH conservatives. Heaven knows there are enough people out there that vilify a good man--let's give them no more reasons to. We need to bring the same enthusiasm that we brought to working on the campaign to working on our country. It's not going to be easy or pretty, no one's going to be singing kum-ba-ya, but if tempers and attitudes aren't reoriented, we're not going to get off the starting block.

So, let's celebrate tonight for the possibility of a new direction for this country, rather than for the opportunity for the "libs" to hang one on the "repugs."


Well, spoken. I hope we all can do our part to heal the nation in time.

lucyp said...

Jeff NYC Dem said...
My partner, the neo-con faith voter told me I'm "weakening the country today". To which I replied, "you're a gay catholic republican who's voting for a candidate who would seek to ensure we never have the right to marry, you're voting to weaken our rights today"


OMG, Jeff NYC Dem is really Marc Slackmeyer from Doonesbury! 8-)

purplesaurus rex said...

Excellent Fark thread full of election Photoshops and animated .gifs...very funny:

Link

Mighty said...

McCain is down to 8.0 on Intrade!

I already voted and have my cool sticker souvenir. Too bad my vote in Illinois is unlikely to matter.

Obama/Biden '08!

Verification word:
"lizest" French for "The Zest"

Mason said...

Damn you lucy!!! I was gonna say that!

Voice of the Midwest said...

Brits, quit the fighting...and give Ireland back to the Irish while you are at it! ;)

REPORT FROM MINNESOTA: Visit to Coleman/McCain GOTV effort in St. Paul reported as "vibrant", but noticable open phones on the floor. Franken volunteers had coffee and donuts delivered to Coleman volunteers this morning.

Civility...what a concept.

Jeff NYC Dem said...

Damn it, Lucyp! You blew my cover!

purplesaurus rex said...

PS some content in link above may be NSFW (no nudity though)

lucyp said...

@mason

*chuckle*

beek said...

Drudge headline: "Ayers, Farrakhan Vote at Same Polling Location as Obama..."

Wow, now Obama really stands convicted of...whatever.

Sarah Clark said...

"Folks, I think the Brits are about to throw down right here in this thread."

Woot! I haven't seen a good brit politics throwdown since I spent a memorable evening in a Dundee pub in 1997 watching an staunch SNP member and Scotland's Only Conservative University Student get into it a couple days before the election... (ahh, those innocent exchange student days, when I wished the US had a leader as great as the UK was getting in Blair *shudder*)

lucyp said...

Sorry, Jeff! I'll go back to lurking now....

Yanks145 said...

American ex-pat here in Zurich, Switzerland. Just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed this election cycle and this website! I was caught a few times at work on this site, got some strange reactions, but then got them hooked as well! I think everyone in this office (I am the only American) is absolutely fascinated with this election and hopeful for a chance to witness the emergence of a truly transformational and consensual leader in the U.S.

I will stay up all night if I have to, but I hope for sleeps sake that its a landslide!

GO BAMA!!

JDA said...

Here's the link to the Daily Kos diary on voter intimidation in St. Louis:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/4/9578/77830/635/652289

I would be far more worried about that kind of thing if FiveThirtyEight hadn't given me confidence in Obama's lead, and in the remarkable chain of events that would have to transpire to give McCain a sniff at the White House.

I voted in Chicago at 6:45 this morning - the line was about 45 minutes long, moving slowly but steadily. Beautiful weather today in our part of the Midwest, which should be great for the Northwest Indiana (Dem-leaning) turnout.

By the way, in the Chicago area at least, Starbucks is running a promotion: if you show them your voter receipt, they'll give you a free tall coffee. Does anyone know if that's nationwide?

Voice of the Midwest said...

"Palin warns of "far left takeover"" (MysticLaker)

Compared to the rest of the world, the farthest left Democrat in the U.S. Congress is a centrist in the rest of the world.

Sarah Palin wouldn't know a real socialist if it bit her on the nose.

If the GOP chooses to go farther right, they are planning their doom for a generation.

Subterranean said...

From David Brooks' NYT column:

"We’re probably entering a period, in other words, in which smart young liberals meet a stone-cold scarcity that they do not seem to recognize or have a plan for."

Lol, I have a plan, Mr. B.---although you probably won't like it. It's called: "involuntary euthanasia".

Badgerhair said...

Sorry to disappoint, but this Lib Dem just couldn't resist a cheap shot at a rival, and now I'm going out shopping.

chopperjc said...

Grandpa John, thank you for sharing your wisdom

Loralee said...

re: Greg Palast

I worked the Dem caucus in NM, and I can tell you EXACTLY why so many names were not on our lists -- people thought they were registered as Dems, but were actually registered "Decline to State." In other words, they ARE registered voters, eligible for the general election but not for the caucus or primary. We saw this over and over on that day.

The registration status of these voters is still a concern for the Dem Party in the long-term, but not today.

Mason said...

Lucy-
I do think it's a bit odd that he's still calling him his partner. I guess he still can't get over Chase.

Mark/Jeff-
It's okay! There're plenty of fish in the sea!

takestock said...

Just got done voting with my wife for Obama here just north of Cincinnati. The precinct is VERY republican. There were NO lines at 11am.

Carl said...

Freddie,

I share your concerns. I am a programmer myself and it scares me, not only that the voting software is not open source, but even if it was, there is no guarantee that the source code shown to the public is actually what was compiled and is running on the actual machines. There simply is no way to verify this.

I am pretty sure that all or most voting machines actually print out a paper ballot and those are used in the event of major discrepancies.

All that being said, it is absolutely ridiculous that some of these companies (Diebold) have publicly admitted that there have been defects found in their software that could alter votes.
Like I said, I'm a programmer and I know that virtually all software has bugs in it, but when it comes to something absolutely mission critical, like bank software or NASA's rocket guidance software, I guarantee you they make sure they work flawlessly. You would think that voting software would be just as critical. But the most ridiculous part of this is that voting software is so incredibly simple. All it does is tally up votes for different candidates! That's why I'm so skeptical of Diebold and other developers. There is NOTHING difficult about writing election software! There shouldn't be any errors!

interstices said...

I agree with #4 because when NBC hired me to do exit polling back in 1982 it was very hard to grab every third voter coming out of the polling place. And yes, I did gravitate to some people who I recognized and it was easier to have them fill out the form. Then I phoned in the results for the 20 surveys I collected. A month later I got my $20 in the mail for the work I did.

Jeff NYC Dem said...

Mason - if he can still love me even though I'm an atheist democrat, I can return the favor. :)

Tribunus Plebis said...

Much as I value Nate Silver and his web site, I have to strongly disagree with his across-the-board condemnation of exit polls. They are obviously not a substitute for real results. But they do produce useful information about the intentions of voters who are as truthful as phone respondents about their demographic information. And most importantly, they do provide some exogenous verification, however rough, of voting results -- which is why the equivalent of exit polls are a valuable means of challenging fake elections in authoritarian countries, and are used for that purpose. Were it not for disparities between exit polls and "real" returns in various Ohio counties in '04, many of the e-voting irregularities that were documented in that state would not have been noticed. So do NOT disregard exit polling information. They are one part of the information tableau on Election Day, and they can serve as a warning indicator of tampering with e-voting results. In a democracy, we need all the information we can get about what happens on Election Day. The system is not as simple and innocent as it was only two decades ago -- it is complex, has many more points where errors can occur, and the involvement of private contractors in maintaining e-voting databases and counting results (which is a new phenomenon in American elections) is fraught with risk of fraud. Exit polls produce one stream of evidence about voting that is useful in forensic analysis of what happens in our elections.

Milly said...

Well it is 5am Wednesday here, I have been up for an hour. Too excited to sleep. I just want to soak in (via the net) as much of your election as possible. Go Obama.

Thanks Grandpa Joe that was lovely!

longwire said...

...two riders were approaching, and the wind began to howl...

Loralee said...

The Starbucks thing is nationwide.

Ojo said...

Once again, Nate is willfully ignorant of what's really going on beneath our noses. Why does he still refuse to acknowledge this issue?
http://www.truthout.org/110308A

Jo said...

Just voted, after a 20-minute wait (mid-morning). I was surrounded by smiling people in my heavy Dem precinct, many of them in the right bracket to see their taxes rise to Clinton-era levels under Obama's plan. I had Ray Charles' "America the Beautiful" on endless repeat on my iPod and touch the box for Obama just when the chorus kicked in at the end. Because that's what this is all about.

jlfunder said...

Nate - You have been our anchor in a turbulent sea. Whenever I was in doubt I came to 538. Thank you!

Voice of the Midwest said...

"Just got done voting with my wife for Obama here just north of Cincinnati. The precinct is VERY republican. There were NO lines at 11am."

That confirms my field contacts' word from Ohio (suburban malaise in Cincinnati).

Meanwhile, he is getting reports of long lines in the Over-the-Rhine area of Cincinnati and all over urban Columbus.

trafficlight said...

@Freddie That's whole problem with voting machines, nobody gets to look at the source code. We have no idea what they are doing internally.

InkStain said...

Count one in North Dakota for Obama.

Was in line 15 minutes before polls were scheduled to open with about 100 people in front of me, but their computers that matched addresses with precincts was down, so voting didn't stat until 35 minutes after it was supposed to.

DanP said...

Jeff NYC Dem...

Thanks for saying that.

After all the vitriol and animosity (and it is still there), it would seem to be helpful to think WE rather than THEM. America needs healing.

I voted early two weeks ago and stopped by the Cocoa, FL Obama HQ to volunteer to drive this morning. I am on call, but there are so many volunteers, there are more bodies than jobs... Busy bees.

Good feeling in the air. FL will be close, but I feel the change.

American the beautiful...

WE.

. said...

Does anyone know of a network that won't be reporting exit poll numbers? Because that's who I want to be watching...

Dave-london said...

I thought I was going to read a whole blog without the Labour is now tory, its all Tony's fault! aaghhh.

Minimum Wage, Devolution, Freedom Of Information.

All prgressive Gvmts in the UK end in disappointment and recrimination for the failure to pass the socialist utopia [creation of] Bill.




Anyways carry on with your voting nothing to see here.

hexennacht said...

THANK YOU for saying this! Of course we'll mostly gulp them down like candy anyway, but it's wise to understand them for what they are!

We've waited this long. We can wait another half day for the real results.

WV: immaties - those who suppress the vote should be immaties... in prison.

markedman said...

waited 2 hours to vote in brooklyn! My lord, i've never waited more than 15 minutes.


Turn out was insane.

St. Nick said...

Go Obama!

McCain must Lose!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhpO9xG2MY

jnorthrop said...

Ugh! I just heard the words "the first dude" uttered again. I shudder in disgust every time I hear that. If I have to listen to 4 years of that I'm going to have to quit listening to the news.

Aunt Karen said...

I actually tried to get exited polled today, but I wasn't the eighth person out, so they refused me, lol.

Dead Cat Bounce said...

Just voted in California. No line, in and out in under 5 minutes.

What do we know that the rest of the country doesn't?

Jeff NYC Dem said...

Jnorthrop -- just think, if Hillary were the nominee, we may be talking about the "first bubba".

Tyson said...

Sarah Palin is an idiot...

FFS, the words she uses make absolutely no contextual sense

mizack2 said...

Dead Cat Bounce said...
Just voted in California. No line, in and out in under 5 minutes.

What do we know that the rest of the country doesn't?
--------

You're not a swing state, so no reason for the GOP to try to screw up machines there

Seretse said...

What are the best channels to watch the returns?

markedman said...

But the lines in NYC and Brooklyn have been immense all my friends report minimum hour wait


which is strange

slicknickshady said...

MSNBC or CNN

Real Joe said...

seretse said...
What are the best channels to watch the returns?


fox news, cnn, msnbc

PorridgeGun said...

Okay, reposted comments from previous thread:



Greg Palast, who I consider the leading expert on electoral fraud, said last night that a guranteed 6 million votes have been wiped out by Republican Secretaries of State, most notably in Georgia, Colorado, New Mexico and Indiana. Palast said Colorado's Secreatry of State has been stone-walling him for weeks, and Indiana's Secretary of State should be in prison. He's a criminal, plain and simple.


Indiana is gone for Obama, probably Colorado, also. Tom Udall will likely lose the senate race. A shitload of congressional seats will be flipped to Republicans. The only thing that can stop this is if the turnout exceeds even the record numbers that have been predicted, and if voters are smart. DON'T ACCEPT A PROVISIONAL BALLOT. DEMAND A REAL BALLOT. And kick up fuck if they refuse you one.


How McCain Could Win

http://www.gregpalast.com/section/articles/

http://www.truthout.org/110308A


Steal Back Your Vote

http://www.stealbackyourvote.org/




This Election's Katherine Harris, Glenda Hood and Ken Blackwell

Indiana Secretary of State: Todd Rokita

http://www.in.gov/sos/

Colorado Secretary of State: Mike Coffman

http://www.sos.state.co.us/


Georgia Secretary of State: Karen Handel

http://sos.georgia.gov/




And before people atart... Greg Palast has been proven right every time. He was the first investigative journalist to break the voter fraud in Florida 2000, was the first to expose "caging" in 2004, not to mention electoral fraud in Mexico. He even nailed the 2006 midterms, which were similar to this election. The Democrats were cheated out of a few senate seats.

Remember, for a while it looked like the Dems wouldn't even win a majority in the senate. Both the Virginia and Montana races were squeakers for Webb and Tester.


Palast is supremely confident it's at least 6 million votes... AT LEAST. And Republican Secretaries of State in Indiana, Colorado and Georgia are the biggest crooks. He said it won't be enough to swing the election, but Obama and the Democrats power to govern will be diminished as a result of state, congressional and senate races Obama and the Democrats won were flipped.


He said that the only way to stop this is if Democratic turnout is staggering, and that voters are equipped to deal with Republican tactics. Palast was clear - Don't accept a provisional ballot. Demand a REAL ballot. They'll eventually give it up. Tell anyone who hasn't voted yet!

Paulomatic said...

While you're watching the clock tick down oh-so-slowly, relax and have some OBAMA CHERRY PIE

David said...

This whinging Brit reads this blog to get away from other whinging Brits.

Still, while we're still (somewhat tangentially) on the UK...Obama's ability to fulfil his myth once elected is somewhat similar to that of Tony Blair, no? Blair has (and, I'm sure, Obama will have after 8 years) a string of progressive accomplishments to their name which would have made their predecessors from their own party deeply envious, but Blair's treatment by his contemporaries has emphasized the negative.

Can Obama avoid this, do we think?

Casper said...

Oh, America... :-)

As a Nordic citizen, I'm happy to see that you'll get your country back tonight.

Brace yourselves for rigged machines, disenfranchisement and FOX exit polls claiming 'PA too close to call'.

However! When it's all over, we'll all - but mostly you - have the Leader of the Free World be a respectable, knowledgable, curious, intelligent, humourous human being. What a refreshing change!

Oh - by the way: THANKS for a great site. And thanks to all you Americans engaging yourselves in this - a bit of Nate on CNN, Jon Stewart, a daily hour at 538, clips of volunteers working hard in OH, FL and all over the country and of course, the NYT, helps regain the faith in the America we admire so much (if secretly whenever someone whose last name is Bush is in office).

If just one of you remembers later tonight that Europe is celebrating with you - even if we have to stay up to 6-8-10am - then we'll be on the path to something very good, starting tonight!

Thanks again,
C.

Milly said...

wv=tritsu. Japanese word meaning a landslide in an election.

Let's hope you bring home a tritsu today!

Seretse said...

Did anybody just hear Sarah Palin say that she was exercising her right to privacy when asked who she was voting for?

Is that not doubly ironic to anybody?

Richard said...

What you wrote makes perfect sense, but please don't say "my friends"; that phrase is now copyright McCain (and I always thought it was incredibly insincere and condescending when he used it during the campaign)and immediately raises my blood pressure.

And today it's already high!

Richard in London

lucyp said...

At the polls, I met a local (Dem) delegate to our state legislature. He said a Republican colleague of his said he had been calling "soft" Republican voters to urge them to vote for McCain, and a lot of them said, "Sorry, but I'm voting for Obama."

Publius said...

Forget the exit polls. Watch the futures markets and the bookies now. McCain is tanking everywhere:

Intrade - 7.9, down 1.3.

IEM - 6.7, down .3

The bookies don't like it either.

Betfair is close to the futures - Mc is at 7% right now.

Paddy Power has McCain 7-1, Obama 1-16. Paddy also has a line on when McCain's concession will be:

before 10pm ET - 6-1
10 to 11: 3-1
11 to 11:59 - 11-8
Wednesday - 6-4
Later than Wednesday - 12-1
No concession - 7-1 (wtf, I guess he's a maverick)

Andy JS said...

Being someone from the UK, the biggest surprise for me when I watched a US election night for the first time was the way a state could be called by all the networks before any real votes had been cast simply on the strength of an exit poll. I always thought that there would be some problems with that practice, and obviously there have been a few problems with it in recent elections.

Le Plume said...

Since France was mentioned, one correction: it is not illegal to conduct polls in the last 48 hours, but it is illegal to publish them - a prohibition that gets more and more irrelevant in the Internet age.

Brad said...

From Salon:

"I stood in line to vote this morning at a small, rural Mississippi high school where the computer science classroom had been converted to a polling place, casually listening in on the conversations. The lady just behind me, an older, African-American woman, was speaking with a friend. "You know I went to school here? Most of this wasn't here then, but the old gym was. I sure had some times in there."

"So this was where you came when they desegregated?" her friend asked.

"No. I graduated in 1968," she answered. "This was still a black school then.""

CloudyFuture said...

LOL CNN guy laughing at the palin interview as someone asked her who she voted for and palin replied "its law that I dont have to tell you so I will keep that private." (which I myself found odd but eh)......

Brad said...

andy js-

Certain states ALWAYs vote for one party or another.

Oklamhoma will stay repub, Delaware and Maryland will always vote dem.

livemild said...

lonwgire-

lots of Dylan fans here!

all along the watchtower-my fcavorite dylan song

i thought hendrix wasnt a good version , but what do i know...

Subterranean said...

ojo -

If, as you suggest, Republicans are capable of arbitrarily large vote fraud, then BHO never had a chance in the first place. So to take the election seriously, we have to begin with a premise that the Republicans AREN'T capable of doing what you suggest.

Also, accountability only goes so high. Is there any question that Bush/Cheney are guilty of human rights violations meriting the death penalty under the rule of law? Of course not! They're guilty as sin. But accountable to no one.

Same with the election. If it's stolen, the people who did the stealing are simply too powerful to bring to judgment.

RoseGrower said...

My husband and I voted in suburban Kansas City, in a largely rural, very Republican county.

Oddly, I was able to walk right up to the table and get my ballot (in the M-R line). My husand, however, wasn't as lucky. His G-L line took about 40 minutes. (After I finished voting, I waited in that line with him). There were 23 items on our ballot.

Sometimes when I've voted in mid-afternoon I'm vote 500 or so. This morning, at about 9:30, our machine (optical scanner, thank God no touch screen machines for us) showed it was into the 500's.

There was a steady stream of people coming in to vote. The G-M line actually got even longer by the time we left and the M-R line started having a half-dozen or so in line consistently, as well. Looks like it will be a heavy turnout. This sounds silly, perhaps, but I had rather hoped we'd have to wait longer-- that would mean a blockbuster turn-out.

Keep the voting reports coming. It's fascinating to read goings-on from around the country.

Seretse said...

cloudyfuture said...
LOL CNN guy laughing at the palin interview as someone asked her who she voted for and palin replied "its law that I dont have to tell you so I will keep that private." (which I myself found odd but eh)......

I was baffled! I suppose 2012 is closer than 2016.

Ken said...

Seretse said... What is the best network to watch returns?

I'll be watching Comedy Central for the Stewart/Colbert coverage. For the actual results, I'm an old fuddy-duddy and will look at CBS a couple of times.

I may watch some FOX, but that's because I keep having this strange vision where they completely detach from reality and call the election for McCain. If that happened, how long do you think it would take to convince their viewers that Obama actually won?

stayathomedad said...

What's the over/under for the number of comment from Nate today?

Sarah Clark said...

re: best channel(s) to watch returns

We're gonna be flipping between CNN and the local PBS affiliate (for local races), with a probable hop over to Fox news as the election is called to watch the wailing and rending of garments.

PA John said...

Did Todd Palin vote a straight AIP ticket?

Hector said...

Not anything with exit polls, but did anyone have any more info on the Ohio Driver's License office computer SNAFU that had its origins in Texas? Something about a optic cable line being cut? Thanks.

PorridgeGun said...

LOL @ final Battleground poll. Are they fucking kiddin'???


At least they're consistent. I bet they actually discussed whether or not to have Obama under 50%.

Todd said...

MysticLaker said...
i would watch intrade today...


they're reactionary, not predictive. I 'watched' them (well, TradeSports, which split into Intrade for non-sports and TradeSports) 4 years ago as Kerry climbed higher and higher during the day as it sounded like Kerry might win because of early exit poll info - only to see his value and my hopes come crashing down.

The same thing happened with the recent Mexican presidental election as early results had the left leaning candidate leading, only to have late results swing the balance.

Really - Intrade movement will mean little.

Robert Poor said...

Exit polls are crucial for those of us about to go cold turkey: if FiveThirtyEight is heroin, then exit polls are methadone.

I'll miss my daily dose.

SP said...

Couple more datapoints to add from Northen VA - two friends called to report that they had no lines when they went to vote. Oddly enough, all of our last names fit in that 'P-Z' category, and there were longer lines for all the others. According to one friend, the poll workers told him that there were longer waits earlier in the morning, but no more than 30 minutes; his coworkers also said that their waits were somewhere between none and 30 minutes.

Brad said...

I bet Palin voted AIP, that is why she would not answer...

Jason said...

Completely fabricated polling results are GREAT NEWS!! FOR JOHN MCCAIN!!!!!

Mrs B said...

for those who missed it earlier, Real Joe has committed to announcing his surprise at 7 EST.

Upon reflection, I have decided he is Martin Sheen. What could be more appropriate? After all, today is like being in an episode of the last series of W Wing.

PorridgeGun said...

Mooseburger is insufferable. Her voice could literally break ice. Could you imagine listening to that for 8 years?

Adriel said...

Thanks, Nate, for months of great polling analysis. Yes we can!

MinnesotaNice said...

I live in Minnesota where we have Election day voter registration and one of the country's highest voter turnout rates. My polling station is near the University of Minnesota so there are a lot of students voting here.

The polls opened at 7am; I got there at 7:30 and there were at least 150 people ahead of me, many of them registering today. I finished voting at 8:30, I was voter #225. In 2004 at the same station I was voter #267 at 1:00pm. When I left there were more than 100 people waiting in line and more voters arriving.

2000 and 2004 were bitter pills to swallow but I feel so good about this year. I really feel that we (the country) are going to get back on track.

Wndrng said...

Got in line in Brooklyn at 5:45, and was about 30th or 40th in line. By the time the polls opened at 6 AM there were maybe 300 people in line.

When I had finished voting I said a shehechiyanu (Jewish prayer said on important occasions, thanking God for bringing us to this day). This is the first campaign I ever volunteered for, and will be proud to tell my kids I voted for Barack. I hope I can tell my grandkids I voted to re-elect President Barack.

CloudyFuture said...

Brad said...
I bet Palin voted AIP, that is why she would not answer...
+++++++++++++

could be but I still find it odd...just replied myself and be done with the question not dodge the question like she did (the guy asked the question a couple of different ways)....Odd lady...

Joe Hamelin said...

Native Vote

TULALIP -- The vast majority of American Indian voters support Sen. Barack Obama for president, according to a poll by Native Vote, a national agency that works to engage American Indians in elections.

Overall, 89 percent of all Indians polled support Obama. In Washington state, 94 percent of all Indians polled support the Illinois senator.

Sen. John McCain's most supportive state, when it comes to tribal members, is Oklahoma, where he is expected to take 42 percent of the vote among Indians. Even there, he's tied with Obama. In Arizona, McCain's home state, 74 percent of all Indians polled support Obama, and just 14 percent support McCain.

Everett (WA) Herald

Brad said...

What did the polls show two years ago?

Obama 28
McCain 510

http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/2008/11/03/mccain-510-electoral-votes-obama-28-how-the-map-looked-exactly-2-years-ago/


LOL!

AmyOpteryx said...
This post has been removed by the author.
PA John said...

Mooseburger is insufferable. Her voice could literally break ice. Could you imagine listening to that for 8 years?

That's why Todd does all that snow machining.

OldFatGuy said...

Boy, you find fanboys at every site. I see a lot of folks responding to the "The exit Polls used to be accurate" statement with something like: "No, they never were, Nate says so."

Sorry, I love this site as much as the next blue guy, but just because Nate says something, doesn't make it so. The fact is, Exit Polls DID used to be more accurate. You just can't rewrite history. In fact, exit polls have been accepted around the world as a means of testing for election fraud/accuracy. So please, enough with the "Exit Polls" have ALWAYS been off.

The fact is, SOMETHING has changed. You can theorize it's Repubs don't like to answer and are underrepresented, or the selection of precincts leaves biased date, or any other theory. But they're all just theories. But the fact is, SOMETHING has happened.

And I have a theory too. It's fraud. No, not mistakes, fraud. How many times have you heard of machines switching votes from R to D??? But, we've all heard it the other way around. Also, the FACT is, the companies making the machines that count our votes are owned and run by REPUBLICANS.

Do I have proof of my theory?? No more than Nate does for his. But if I were a betting man, I'd not hesitate in wagering on my theory.

When are we going to go to a 100% Optical Scan system, with an annual 10% random audit rate of machines, plus additional audits for closer states and states with a history of problems? This would do two things, 1)have more of a chance of keeping the machines counting the votes honest and 2)provide for a verfiable hard hand count for ANY disputes.

There is no statistical explanation to legitimize Democrats always being overrepresented in exit polls.

Aunt Karen said...

Seretse, for me, it depends on the mood. I've about had it with talking heads, on all sides, so I'll mainly watch PBS and C-Span. I'll also tune in to watch Nate on HDNet, so I'll be flipping around.

If you want partisan spin, then clearly MSNBC or Fox, depending.

Wndrng said...

Make that was proud to tell my kids, when I took thim to school this morning.

They are very excited. They really seem to understand how big this is.

kaberle77 said...

Just voted for Obama a few minutes ago in NE Philly... There was only four people in line to vote. The lady at the front desk mentioned that only 125 people had voted as of 11am. I wonder if turnout in the NE and Philly suburbs will be down due to McCain "supporters" deciding to sit this one out.

Joe The Fake Virginian said...

re: iPOD playlist

I have a 95 song 2008 Election playlist!!!

Before voting, The Who - We Won't Get Fooled Again.

Immediately after voting, r.e.m. - Ignoreland

Enjoy!

Ken said...

Blogger takestock said: Just got done voting with my wife for Obama here just north of Cincinnati. The precinct is VERY republican. There were NO lines at 11am.

As Nate just published, you can't actually deduce anything from this. Perhaps people in that precinct mostly vote at a different time of the day, such as before or after work. Or it might be valid, and indicate a strong drag on the down-ticket. The full numbers will tell.

Possibly relevant to that down-ticket drag, the yard signs for Republican candidates in this area mostly don't have the party affiliation; just the candidate name and the office.

Bex of Ambridge said...

david/dave_in_london

Completely agree with you both. Blair got lots wrong, and obviously labour isn't quite how it seemed it would be in 1997 BUT the good outweighs the bad and there are significant impressive achievements.

Obviously today is all about our friends across the pond (ha ha) but (in an EXTREMELY uncharacteristic moment of nationalism) yay for us too!

xxx

Nhoj said...

just voted in Wisconsin for the first time there was a steady stream of people no lines though this is a rural township Wisconsin always has high turnout so im not surprised requested a paper ballot over the machine aswell.

Brad said...

Thank oldfatguy! I agree completely!

Signed,
olbaldguy

Mrs B said...

@bex of ambridge

This is a bit more exciting than when David got elected to the parish council, isn't it? As long as Obama doesn't run over any badgers......

Voice of the Midwest said...

Report from Indiana:

Consistently high turnout in Indianapolis, South Bend, Bloomington, Lake County, and Evansville being reported.

Highly capable GOTV by Obama being reported in the most Republican county in the state (Hamilton).

A Republican poll worker on the northside of Indianapolis has been asked to leave his post by the clerk's office. He was challenging EVERY new voter and registered Democratic voter requesting a ballot. A police officer had to escort him out of the facility when he refused to leave. All of the voters were permitted to vote thereafter.

It seems like the late primary for Indiana and Obama's GOTV apparatus was spring training. They are clicking on all cylinders according to field contact Dan in Indy. They are in Phase II of the effort as we speak.

Brad said...

Thanks Kaberle! Lets hope McCain folks just don't show!

No vote is better than a bad vote.

emvision said...

just saw the Google banner - they always crack me up! WTG Google - get out and vote - then come back and search, search, search...

jnorthrop said...

@voice --

Thanks for the report. The action taken against that man is encouraging.

CloudyFuture said...

kaberle77 said...
Just voted for Obama a few minutes ago in NE Philly... There was only four people in line to vote. The lady at the front desk mentioned that only 125 people had voted as of 11am. I wonder if turnout in the NE and Philly suburbs will be down due to McCain "supporters" deciding to sit this one out.
++++++++++++++++

Was it raining there? might just wait till lunch time or after work....

Friends in IN voted early this morning....got there at 6 am and got done in 10 mins....however as they were leaving the lines were forming around the polling location and (lot) more coming in/parking...so they got there just in time.....

jnorthrop said...

new thread

alafair said...

Datapoint from SC - I have a friend who has now been in line for over 2 hours to vote.

In Pitt County, NC 48% of registered voters voted early.

PorridgeGun said...

Watch the Presidential Campaign in a Minute!!!

http://www.236.com/video/2008/watch_presidential_campaign_in_9955.php

lordkaldare said...

Of course Palin didn't say who she voted for. In reality, she's a closet socialist, who's diabolical plan of pretending to be bat**** crazy and incompetent has tanked Mccain's campaign... or maybe she was just embarrassed to admit she accidentally voted for the green party. ;)

Real Joe said...

alafair said...
Datapoint from SC - I have a friend who has now been in line for over 2 hours to vote.

In Pitt County, NC 48% of registered voters voted early.


DAMN.

Debbie said...

I voted for Obama in Philadelphia at around 8:00 this morning, along with my 68year old mother. There were no lines, but a steady stream of voters signing in at the Democratic table. As usual at our location, the Republican table stood quiet and lonely at the back of the room. We have electronic machines here, but they never seems to prevent Dem. votes from being counted in Philadelphia! The radio reported that there are some machine malfunctions, but are also informing people to ask for a paper ballot if the machines are acting up. Despite the lack of "street money" GOTV is going strong, and the unions have brought in truckloads of volunteers from NJ and NY.

It's been a bit of an emotional day today. My mom hasn't voted in a presidential election since her first...Johnson vs. Goldwater! She felt that she had to get on board now in order to protect her grandaughter's future. I took a cell phone shot of my "ballot" and sent it to my daughter, a Young Democrat away at prep school. They cancelled study hall at her school tonight so that the kids can watch the returns, so we will be able to share the evening by phone. Amazing times!

hutchkc said...

Voted in KC this morning, about 100-150 people in line ahead of me 15 minutes before polls opened. Went pretty quick, about an hour. Usually when i vote there isn't a line at all so I'm very happy to see a large turnout.

So far at work the people talking are Obama 8 / McCain - 6

eve said...

For a few months now I have come to this site many times a day. Today I am almost GLUED to it.

I feel very sure that Obama will win so I'm not nervous. A little impatient. Reading all the comments is sooo fun today!

Jay Ackroyd said...

Thanks Nate. Exit polls are entirely about creating early drama for the teevee people.

Patience indeed.

mbanick said...

I voted in 'real' virginia (although I'm a 'fake' virginia native) and we had electronic touch screens, wasn't difficult to use at all. I waited for 30 seconds, and the two ladies checking voting registration were very nice, no hassle.

Some McCain person was handing out 'practice' ballots with all the candidates on it, and all the republican candidates "checked". I almost smirked when I came out after voting Obama and Warner

lrosegaijin said...

In Australia everyone has to vote or get a hefty fine, so exit polls are usually fairly accurate! Indeed so is most polling, when in effect the sample is 100% of the electorate.

Oh and go Obama! The world needs you!

PorridgeGun said...

Sky News are so ignorant, it embarrasing. Their electoral map expert just said Obama was expected to WIN Pennsylvania during the primaries, but Clinton beat him. And that's good news for John McCain. Fuck's sake, Hillary was like double digits in front. That's why Obama was in TX.

semiotic_guerilla said...

Lurker from Europe here. What about turnout? Data comes from exit polls or from "real polls"? How accurate it is? High turnout favours democrats or republicans?

PorridgeGun said...
This post has been removed by the author.
PorridgeGun said...

Or was it OH she won, and Obama was in TX?



Anyway, Watch the Presidential Campaign in a Minute!!!

http://www.236.com/video/2008/watch_presidential_campaign_in_9955.php

I am a Fractal said...

nate,

I would posit that the exit polls are very accurate, but the discrepancies only pop up in states where vote theft is occurring.

it would be very interesting to see a map clearly showing where exit polls differed from final tallies, and by how much.

i think it would be interesting to have a voting system that had a double blind vote tallying system, and no easy way to slice and dice the electorate...

Beckee said...

Just voted in suburban Philadelphia south of the city. There was no line, which is normal for this time of day. We have 3 polling places for a population of 6000. But there was a steady stream of people coming in while I was there and the traffic seemed heavier than usual to me. I've heard reports, though, of some serious machine problems in the next town over and in Philadelphia.

wv: fingrea, as in sangria made with absolut

Nam Vet Joe From Jersey said...

Voice of MW-In the process of making the "Pie"--the pecan pie syrup is out of this world.

M.J. O'Brien said...

After a downpour last night, it's miraculously sunny this morning in western Oregon. But with 100% vote-by-mail, the weather matters little to those who want to drop their ballots into a box in front of the local library. No lines, in other words.

About 63% of Oregon voters cast their ballots early, giving Democrats a margin of about 200,000 votes.

But I'm still nervous despite weeks of very reassuring numbers.

Many thanks to 538 for making sense of this campaign. One thing is clear: we gotta find a better way to run campaigns and conduct elections that are reliable and efficient.

Zach said...

Not two seconds after reading this post, I went and googled "exit polls." It's an addiction! I'm just not strong enough to resist!

Leland said...

A sample based on selecting every nth person from a (systematically ordered) population is, by definition, not a random sample. A random sample is based on a process in which every possible sample of that size has an equal chance of having been selected. It is easy to see that the nth-person method does not give every possible sample an equal chance of occurring.

Regardless of their scrupulousness, then, exit polls that use the nth voter sampling method are not representative of the voting population. They used to "work," presumably, because the order of voters coming in was relatively random. So, exit polls are questionable regardless of all the other deficiencies Nate mentions.