11.03.2008

Reassurance for Dems in NBC/WSJ Survey

Of all the polls out late tonight -- and I do hope to have some sort of midnight update to the polling thread -- the one that ought to give Democrats the most reassurance is the new poll out from NBC and the Wall Street Journal, which gives Barack Obama a 51-43 lead. What's to like about this particular survey?

Firstly, all of the interviewing was conducted today (Sunday) and yesterday, so it's about the freshest set of data that we have.

Secondly -- and this is an underrated factor -- the NBC/WSJ poll always behaves intuitively. It goes up when the other polls go up, and goes down when the other polls go down:

Date             Obama   McCain
11/1 - 11/2 51 43
10/17 - 10/20 52 42
10/4 - 10/5 49 43
9/12 - 9/22 48 46
9/6 - 9/7 47 46
8/15 - 8/18 45 42
7/19 - 7/21 47 41
6/6 - 6/9 47 41
4/25 - 4/28 46 43
3/24 - 3/25 44 42
3/7 - 3/10 47 44
1/20 - 1/22 42 42


Those numbers very closely match our "supertracker" trendline at any given time period, albeit with perhaps a 1-2 point Obama house effect. (The antithesis of this is something like the IBD/TIPP poll, which had its best numbers of the year for Obama (+11) in mid-May, in the midst of the Jeremiah Wright crisis.)

Thirdly, it's hard to accuse the poll of partisanship, as it is co-directed by a Democratic pollster (Peter Hart) and a Republican one (Neil Newhouse), and is co-branded with a conservative-leaning newspaper and the most left-leaning of the three broadcast networks.

Finally, it includes cellphones (which may be part of the reason for the "house effect"). An updated version of the cellphone chart is below. (The polls that include cellphones are highlighted in orange, those that don't are in gray). Between the NBC poll and the final Gallup numbers, the discrepancy has now grown even greater: Obama leads by an average of 10.0 points in the cellphone polls, versus 5.1 in the landline-only's.

299 comments

Adam said...

The Religious Left sure knows how to kill a party

Rick said...

SalP7 said...
"I live in the San Francisco suburbs and I walk to a neighbor's garage to vote. I've never had to wait more than a couple of minutes. Is this a Blue/Red State thing? Its astonishing I wait two minutes and others wait eight hours."

I won't claim any in depth study, but I think it's an issue in any democrat leaning areas where Republicans are in power or have been recently. I have not heard of democrats attempting voter suppression or disenfranchisment, but it often comes up in regards to black and poor neighborhoods. Notice the fake memo in VA that puts republican voting on the 4th, democratic on the 5th, etc. When republicans have any say, they tend to make it harder to vote in democratic areas through reducing the number of polling locations, number of machines/staff at said locations, hours they are open, etc. Those general tactics have been out in force this year.

George In Florida said...

Dan

Actually, it's alot more complicated than that.

If A and B are titaly independent, then it is 90.25%

However, we are dealing with both independent and dependant variables (i.e. if all the national polls are high by 3 points, then all states would go down accordingly). However, if the nat'l polls are correct, but State A is +3 and state B is -3, then you have a different effect. That's one of the reasons why Nate runs 10000 simulations.

jqb said...

If i assign to Obama every state that Nate has him to win by at least 95%, Obama will be elected with 270 EV. Yet, the overall winning percentage is below that, at 93%. How come? How can it be lower than 95%?

I suggest you take some courses in math and logic, since you're failing badly here. There's no connection between your two 95%'s. Suppose that there were a billion states in which Obama had a 95% chance of winning, but he had to win them all in order to win the election. His chances if doing so would be virtually zero.

El Oso said...

@The Religious Left

Having lived in semi-socialist country for the last 4 years, I gotta say... It's really kinda nice.

I get health care, good schools, safe communities, good wages, good public transport, etc.

You could argue that a little bit of socialism is exactly what the US needs right now. The haters would cringe and moan until they see there's an actual benefit

Zenu said...

PPP MT

O 48
M 47

Shadowspecies said...

PPP Montana

48-47 Obama, 4% Paul


Looks like we're going to have multiple nailbiters tuesday.

Rick said...

George In Florida said...
"Dan

Actually, it's alot more complicated than that.

If A and B are titaly independent, then it is 90.25%

However, we are dealing with both independent and dependant variables (i.e. if all the national polls are high by 3 points, then all states would go down accordingly). However, if the nat'l polls are correct, but State A is +3 and state B is -3, then you have a different effect. That's one of the reasons why Nate runs 10000 simulations."

To add onto this, Nate postulates that some states are dependant within groups that share similiar demographics. That is what affects Ohio might affect PA, but not affect Florida. Lets assume for the moment that team A makes a horrible mistatement regarding Jewish voters, akin to Murtha's racist comments in PA. This might alienate Floridians and other highly Jewish populations but have much lesser effect on Ohio and PA.

Zenu said...

Also, Ron Paul gets 4 in that PPP Montana poll.

I think we're so focused on NC, FL, OH, and some people living in dreamland focusing on PA that we're not paying as much attention to this state. It's going to be just as nailbiting as the others.

El Oso said...

@George in Florida

Where in Florida?

Soccer Mum said...

El Oso

That is because private enterprise and the profit motive that goes with it are ill-equipped to provide services in areas where profits cannot be made without compromising the quality of the service.

So GM can sell cars but if it's chemotherapy that you need its better coming from the government.

Surprising though how many people don't understand that. The mania to privatise everything in sight is beyond my comprehension and I am a professional accountant.

Rick said...

Zenu said...
"Also, Ron Paul gets 4 in that PPP Montana poll.

I think we're so focused on NC, FL, OH, and some people living in dreamland focusing on PA that we're not paying as much attention to this state. It's going to be just as nailbiting as the others."

I'm focused on Virginia. It has polls that close relatively early and should give a good indication as to how worried we need to be about the other races. If Obama takes an easy lead in VA, it should be an early night. If it is at all close or called for McCain, it's going to be a long, long night.

jqb said...

Actually, it's alot more complicated than that.

To calculate the actual win percentage, yes, but to realize that the chances of winning both A and B is less than the chances of winning A or of winning B, not at all.

John Evo said...

@ Adam - your points on potential voter fraud are valid, but irrelevant to my point. You and I can't control that. All we can do is go vote. Based on THAT and that alone, it's over. Now, if we get cheated (again) that's a different issue and we'll have to deal with THAT starting Wednesday, if it happens. My gut tells me that it won't be close enough for fraud to work. You have to have a fairly close election to pull that off in America. In Ecuador, you can just declare that El Presidente won 97% of the vote.

Derek said...

Also, as far as socialism... we (used to) have a public military, public schools, public transport, and lots of other public stuff... we should have public health care... Like Obama says, the gov should do what we can't do for ourselves

George In Florida said...

Lutz, outside Tampa.

When I voted In L.A., I never had to wait more than 5 minutes.

Here in Fl, I went to one early voting place, where there was a 3 hour wait (in a predominatly poorer area). I gave up, and went to another precinct in a more affluent area, and waited for 1 hour.

Bootleg said...

The fact that Nate fell asleep before updating the model is GREAT NEWS!!! for JOHN McCAIN!!!

obsessed said...

PPP's MT is up - let's hope the Paulistas stand by their man.

The race for President in Montana looks like it could be a cliffhanger,
with Barack Obama holding the slightest of advantages, 48-47, over John McCain in the
state. Ron Paul is receiving 4% of the vote. One thing working to Obama’s definite advantage is that he has banked a 61-35 lead with
those who have already voted. John McCain is up 53-40 with people who plan to vote on
election day.


http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_Montana_1103623.pdf

Rick said...

George In Florida said...
"Lutz, outside Tampa.

When I voted In L.A., I never had to wait more than 5 minutes.

Here in Fl, I went to one early voting place, where there was a 3 hour wait (in a predominatly poorer area). I gave up, and went to another precinct in a more affluent area, and waited for 1 hour."

I think one of the biggest issues this year is that they were more prepared for the general appathetic voter turnout.

El Oso said...

@Soccer Mum

You're a very smart woman indeed.

I've had this discussion with quite a few of my friends from back home and I always say the same thing:

If the service is an essential part of our everyday life then there should be a base service from the govt. I would never say that we should abolish the private companies, but they shouldn't dominate the needs of the people.

At least that way those with the money and desire can choose a private hospital, etc. It's a good thing, actually, as it frees up the public service for people who need it more.

George In Florida said...

When I voten in Washington State, I believe my wait was about 25 minutes.

Shadowspecies said...

George, the Secretary of state in florida is republican, that isnt by chance, and im not being sarcastic or bitter either.

Thats a legitimate tactic, make voting harder in more blue areas. Thats why having a dem secretary of state is very important.

The Religious Left said...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24584219-643,00.html

Rupert Murdoch speaking out against Obama. Go figure. Obama would be bad for your brand name and your twisted concept of "globalisation", ie, globalizing the Fox empire.

And now, an uncensored Olbermann moment. Rupert, let me be frank: You are a greedy pigfucking Aussie swine and you have done enough damage to the US political climate with your media empire and the likes of fucktards like Hannity and O'Reilly the Clown. You're afraid of US protectionism? Fear this: Americans taking back their country from corporate swine like you.

Ok, back to Love and Peace for all. Up too late.

Zenu said...

One thing that I feel is interesting to note is Ron Paul's 4%. If you look on the left of this site, all new polls have MT for McCain +4 (and the one +3), and I don't think they included RP, so Obama +1 or so sounds about right.

obsessed said...

As far as I can see, MT is only useful if Obama wins PA+NV, but not CO - then MT would break the tie.

However, for psychological purposes, it would be a lovely addition.

ialex said...

Here in Fl, I went to one early voting place, where there was a 3 hour wait (in a predominatly poorer area). I gave up, and went to another precinct in a more affluent area, and waited for 1 hour.

You can be registered in two different precincts?

la haine

Nick said...

"If Obama takes an easy lead in VA, it should be an early night. If it is at all close or called for McCain, it's going to be a long, long night."

I dunno, early numbers that come in may show McCain up. Remember the pattern from the primary season, where rural areas in many states would always come up first so it would look like Hillary had huge leads.

obsessed said...

I wonder how many of RP's 4% would go for Obama over McCain.

jqb said...

So GM can sell cars but if it's chemotherapy that you need its better coming from the government.

It's the funding of medical care that is better coming from the government than from private corporations -- i.e., the insurance companies, which are motivated to make your premiums as high as possible and give you as little medical care as possible. But the providers of chemotherapy should be private enterprises engaged in competition -- this is exactly what a single payer system does; it is not "socialized medicine", contrary to the BS that the insurance industry heavily promotes.

Something that most people don't understand is that free enterprise and competition are not the same thing as "capitalism". In fact capitalists, driven to maximize profit, do their best to eliminate competition through whatever means possible -- often the most effective means is bribing or blackmailing politicians.

Rick said...

Nick said...
""If Obama takes an easy lead in VA, it should be an early night. If it is at all close or called for McCain, it's going to be a long, long night."

I dunno, early numbers that come in may show McCain up. Remember the pattern from the primary season, where rural areas in many states would always come up first so it would look like Hillary had huge leads."

I'm not speaking of exit polling, but rather the actual vote tallies including the early votes. With this high of an early vote turnout, exit polls will be less than worthless no matter what they predict.

Soccer Mum said...

Like the Australian health system.

Universal Medicare system paid for by a 1.5% levy on taxable incomes about a certain amount and a surcharge on uninsured high income earners plus a comprehensive network of private health funds. And if you go private as well you get a 30% govt rebate on the premiums.

I have used both at different times, most recently 2 weeks ago when I was in the emergency room twice in one day and had heaps of tests for no cost to me.

Zenu said...

Obsessed,

I can't speak for all Ron Paul supporters, but I can for my dad. My dad is a HUGE RP supporter, practically followed him across the country during primaries, went to all sorts of marches and rallies.

Paul isn't on the ballot here in MD and although my father still wishes Paul were, he's voting for Obama in a lesser-of-the-two-evils outlook sort of way.

El Oso said...

@The Religious Left

Relax, brother. You're around friends here, it seems. No need to stoop to their level.

Let's also be civil to our Aussie friends who overwhelmingly support Obama.

George In Florida said...

You also have to realize that we are not having one election here, we are having 51.

Also, the just because you are in one state, the election is not the same. Each county here in Fl has thier own election boards, and hoses thier own election machines. That's why, in 2000, some of us had punch cards, some had optical scans, and some had touch screens.

Also, since it is electorial votes that matter, and not actual votes, even if a candidate has a 100,000 vote advantage, he might only win FL by 400 votes. So you 51 chances for a tight race. And only intight races, are the fragilities of the election system apperant. ANY voting system will have some problems, it's just some are more prone to errors than others.

obsessed said...

If the early voting comes in first, it will show Obama with a huge lead at first and then the election day votes will start coming in.

If the early vote is reported early, the networks can just factor it into their exit polls and they'll actually be better able to make their calls, no?

Soccer Mum said...

Glad you like Rupey religious left.

He's our favourite export and we don't want him back.

Funny though - he usually likes to back winners so I was expecting him to flip to Obama long ago. He must think McCain still has a chance. He bailed out on John Howard last year.

jqb said...

Thats a legitimate tactic, make voting harder in more blue areas.
You have a very bizarre (downright Repubican) notion of "legitimate". In fact such a tactic is illegal and a violation of the oath of office.

El Oso said...

Does this tell everybody a little something?

http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/results

obsessed said...

Is PPP really releasing FL tonight? If so, poor Nate might still be up.

This used to be fun but now it's torture. I want FL to be called at 7:00 EST so I can stop worrying

... and start drinking!

Rick said...

obsessed said...
"If the early voting comes in first, it will show Obama with a huge lead at first and then the election day votes will start coming in.

If the early vote is reported early, the networks can just factor it into their exit polls and they'll actually be better able to make their calls, no?"

I could be wrong, but I believe that no polling location is allowed to release any results until after they close, not even for counted early votes. They might disclose democrat vs republican ratios perhaps as they have done so far with early voting, but as for actual votes cast, I don't think they'll release those numbers until the polls close. This is what makes Virginia my location to watch. They close by 7-7:30, so if they can actually call a definitive Obama win by say 8, it should be a pain free night.

The Religious Left said...

Kill a party? We ain't partying until it's over.

"The Right wants to win, the Left wants to be right."

I'm ready for that to be a saying of old. This is the year it all changes... the year "less government" is no longer an excuse for corrupt and negligent government.

jqb said...

he usually likes to back winners so I was expecting him to flip to Obama long ago.

Then you're out of your effing mind. Murdoch backs his ideology, thus we have Faux News.

wv: rosesse -- are red, violattes are blue

obsessed said...

Does this tell everybody a little something?

http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/results


yeah ... I just got back from Europe and it was almost unanimous for Obama.

sigh ... how did we get stuck with so much PWT?

Speaking of which, it's sure peaceful without PeteKent and MuleRider.

George In Florida said...

Shaddow:

Actually, it was more of an effect of the county elections office (who, by the way, is also a Rep).

The county determines the number of precincts, early voting precincts, and how many machines to put in each.

Since we had anemic turn out for our first two elections this year, especially in early voting, they closed the early voting precinct close to my house, which had very little turn out.

For the 4th, we have some precincts that are so small, that they will have only one person in it. Others may have 20 workers.

Soccer Mum said...

No, jqb, Murdoch in the almost 60 years he has been in business has always ensured that he had the ear of the government of the day in the markets in which he operates.

When Obama wins his influence will be alot less than he would like due to the partisan carryings on of Fox et al.

I can only assume he is going senile. He is certainly old enough to.

jqb said...

You also have to realize that we are not having one election here, we are having 51.

Uh, no, any more than we're having as many elections as there are voters.

There are multiple elections if you count all the downticket races, but that comes to far more than 51.

obsessed said...

no polling location is allowed to release any results until after they close, not even for counted early votes.

yeah - that seems right - but if they released the full early vote tally right at closing, the networks could combine it with the exit polls pretty quickly

of course, the states we care about are the ones which, even if O wins, are not likely to be easily call-able.

unless those early votes are really devastating and the exit polls aren't heavily McCain

Shadowspecies said...

jqb - You misunderstand me. Im not saying i approve of it in any shape or fashion.

What im saying is...they're able to do it without getting prosecuted and pretending they "honestly had no idea".

Adam said...

@ John Evo:
I think that cheating will cause a largge difference between pre-election polls and election results, isn't that relevant to your statement that polls showing a healthy lead are not usually wrong?

As far as controlling the cheating, there is not a lot we can do, other than possibly volunteering to monitor a polling place. But in addition to voting, we can also help to get out the vote in these last couple of days, and I hope everyone will.

It is my believe that should the election be stolen again, Wednesday will be too late to deal with it. Either the courts will decided things for us again and we will go complacently, or else massive protests will occur, and Bush will invoke his newly granted powers to declare martial law and remain in power indefinitely.

This scenario is so dark as to be unthinkable, and so I reiterate: We must overpower the fraud by a massive margin and achieve and overwhelming win. Donate and volunteer. We have two days to make it happen.

El Oso said...

Where is everyone getting those newest poll results from?

George In Florida said...

For early voting here, you can vote at any of the 13 precincts in the county. For election day, you must vote in your precinct.

jqb said...

Murdoch in the almost 60 years he has been in business has always ensured that he had the ear of the government of the day in the markets in which he operates.

Sure, but not all governments are equally amenable to his interests. His calculations are a lot more complex than just going with the winner, since he has a lot of influence over who wins.

When Obama wins his influence will be alot less than he would like due to the partisan carryings on of Fox et al.

No, when Obama wins his influence will be less period, but Fox, by attacking the Dems's legitimacy and support, lessens their power. Were he to flip to Obama, he would lose his own constituency of crazies.

justsomeguy said...

still can't sleep!

Public policy poling has new numbers

morning call (www.macall.com) has new numbers

www.zogby posted at 1 AM ET

jqb said...

You misunderstand me. Im not saying i approve of it in any shape or fashion.

So you're too stupid to understand what your own phrase "legitimate tactic" means?

chris said...

Murdoch's noxious tabloid the Sun backed Blair in 1997 having notoriously been super-biased for the Tories in 1992.

But Blair & co went out of their way to court him, so supping with the Devil with a very short spoon. I don't think they needed him.

Murdoch's "quality" paper the Times - much less quality since he bought it - went off on some anti-European rant about which is the most anti-EEC candidate (over here it's 650-odd separate elections.)

Most likely Obama's campaign worked out they don't need Murdoch's media on side.

BTW, Murdoch's papers here are now back supporting theTories

justsomeguy said...

Murdoch has a problem in the U.S. and it is Roger Ailles. When he hired Reagan's ex-campaign director to run Fix News he became tied to the repub talking points now and forever. Fix News anchors in the U.S. actually get a daily memo of repub party talking points, lightly filtered, from Ailles or his henchmen every day.

Fix News is not a news source, it is bias in a box.

justsomeguy said...

No poling update Nate? What, you get to sleep?

Blame said...

Nth

Anybody want to bet that Nate has fallen asleap in a chair, and is now drooling over his laptop?

Sweet dreams Nate.

Meanwhile anybody who still believes in the late GOP surge can have a look at the RealClearPolitics poll of polls.

Obama's support just keeps on rising, slowly but steadily. McCain's support jerks up and down a bit. If McCain finishes well, one could imagine 50%O to 45%M, but that is it. He can't win unless Obama looses support, and there just isn't any evidence for that.

But all that is just being pesamistic. Cellphones, GOTV, enthusiasm, early banked votes, reverse bradley effect all underapreciated in the polls. This is going to be a blowout.

My bet is on Gallup LVE + 3% for better Dem GOTV. That's a final score of 55%O 43%M 1%Other.

Mad? Not really. Gallup Expanded is middle of the pack for Polls that include cellphones. We know that good GOTV is worth about 2%. Obama's GOTV is not good, it is unbelievable. So is McCain's for that matter, but in his case, I mean that it is fake & not to be believed. Sean Quinn's reports make it very clear.

pdb said...

Having recently driven across most of Montana in a large loop, I can vouch for the strong support for Ron Paul. Lots of Obama signs too, but not as many McCain, in my opinion.

Obama turning Montana blue would probably just be icing on the cake, but I would like to see it and North Dakota blue just to connect the Pacific Coast with the upper Midwest in blue. They psychological effect would be great.

justsomeguy said...

I just listened to This Week with George Stephanopolous on XM Radio as a replay. It was so nice to hear George Will, repub crazy, say he thinks this is a 325+ election and 8 new Senate seats, with a popular vote landslide bigger than Dukakis (e.g. more than 7.8% for OBama).

George In Florida said...

I'm spending election day working as a poll worker, to make sure nothing funny goes on in the precinct where I'm working(which, by the way, in not my precint).

The worst part, is that I wont be able to follow the early elction results, since I'm figuring that we'll be processing voters long after poll closing time.

Rick said...

justsomeguy said...
"No poling update Nate? What, you get to sleep?"

My guesses on the delay, in no specific order.

1) Nate is simply waiting for the last of the new numbers to trickle in and analyze them properly.

2) He's on a show somewhere extolling the virtues of the Model and we all just have to wait.

3) He passed out due to all the running around and stress and will get them udpated in the morning after the early morning polls are out.

Shadowspecies said...

jqb - "So you're too stupid to understand what your own phrase "legitimate tactic" means?"

It seems you feel like tossing around the hate tonight. Im saying that its just as legitimate as those fake flyers that are going out in virginia telling democrats they vote on november 5.


This stuff has been done in the past, its being done now, and it will be done in the future, so i call it legitimate. If you want to slam me for defining illegal things nobody is ever caught doing as legitimate...fine...but you're just fooling yourself thinking we live in a perfect world.

Why dont you redirect some of that anger of yours at people actually perpetrating this stuff instead of people who agree with you.

justsomeguy said...

pdb-

My dream is to have the east and west cost blue, with a nice blue strip across the top.

El Oso said...

@jqb

No need to get angry.

Here, Obama made a new little video. Courtesy of Kos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP7FdBEpVBo

Adam said...

Blogger The Religious Left said...
Kill a party? We ain't partying until it's over.

I agree. I didn't realize that after the 200th comment (which was yours) the rest can only be seen in the "post a comment" popup. So I thought you had shut everyone up.

justsomeguy said...

adam-

We never stop talking.

The Religious Left said...

No, I am a little perturbed with this Aussie-come-and-milk-America phenomenon. Murdoch. Mel Gibson. Olivia Newton John.

Take 'em back!

Another thing, I know that most- how do I say this- America waking up from the Reagan-Bush 30 year nightmare finally, and Murdoch's assault on journalism probably extended that nightmare by 8-10 years- how do I say this, amongst kindred spirits, people who spell correctly- the level of my rage is countered only by my hope... only a day more of expectation... so let me take a stab at left-leaning populist uber-rhetoric, hyperbolized and not to be read by the faint of heart (hey, maybe WWF fans will like this):

What I want to say is that Dems/Indies/Sane Republicans (the few there are) are about to embark on a profound redirection for the US, a step away from the "me-first, let the shit hit someone else" and toward responsible public policy. That is no easy task, yet it behooves us to define and reinforce the core tenets leading this shift, lest they once again become twisted half-truths echoed ad infinitum by what ol' Rupert made of our media. Is that dude even a US citizen? Why is this Australian trickster in such a monumental position of power in the US? I say take the fight to them. Keep 'em running. Power politics is a blood sport. Democrats are learning to play, finally. I know, we'd rather be fighting global warming, but this is a 2-for-1 deal. You win elections, THEN, guess what? You can make an even BIGGER impact on the policies that you are trying to frame/change/coerce.

I guess I am writing this, because... there's too much worry going on..."ooh, I just know those Republicans will steal it again. What are we going to do... let me scratch my over-evolved neocortex"

BRING IT ON! BREATH FIRE! MAKE 'EM WISH THEY WERE BORN IN AUSTRALIA!

AARRRGGHH! ENOUGH OF THIS PUSSY FOOTING! DIE GOP! DIE! YOU LOSE!

justsomeguy said...

Hmmmm, the main website for fivethirtyeight is geting flaky.

justsomeguy said...

religious left-

It is just an election, not the second coming.

Rick said...

new thread, polls updated. Nate is still awake.

justsomeguy said...

Rupert owns the media outlet religious left, he can make them do as he pleases. It is your perogative not to watch or read.

chris said...

Nice quote on the BBC spot (about the election) just now:


Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first teach statistics!

Adam said...

Shadowspecies: While it was a pretty rude response, your usage of "legitimate" was definitely wrong. The imperfection of the world and the fact that you can get away with stuff don't change the meaning of the word. Maybe the word you were looking for was "typical". Not being hateful here, just improving your vocabulary :)

jqb said...

. Im saying that its just as legitimate as those fake flyers that are going out in virginia telling democrats they vote on november 5.


Which aren't legitimate, moron.

so i call it legitimate.

As I said, you're too stupid to know what the word means.

fine

If it's fine for me to point out that you're stupid, why are you complaining?

but you're just fooling yourself thinking we live in a perfect world

Who said we live in a perfect world, cretin? If it were a perfect world, it wouldn't have retards like you in it.

Shit, intellectually dishonest dumb fucks like you aren't worth my time. g'night.

George In Florida said...

el oso

Loved the video, especially the part where Joe the Plumber was going to have his voting rights challenged by caging.

jqb said...

While it was a pretty rude response

What was rude was to tell me that I "misunderstood" him when in fact he's too illiterate to express himself intelligibly. And of course his idiotic "perfect world" strawman was even more rude. People that dishonest don't deserve respect.

twodeadpoets said...

Rick,

You are suggesting that the current administration was ever interested in "serving the people democratically" and not their own interests.



wv: enthyos (try #1) - a city near Atlantis or Cheerios to the nth degree
wv: WYessead (try #2) - as in WYsilla

The Religious Left said...

No, it is my prerogative to tell Rupert Murdoch and his ilk to FUCK OFF. It is my prerogative to fight this corporate jerk-off nitwit network by every means possible. Culture war? That's merely a fabrication and twisting of what is really, truly, an Information War.

Just don't watch? Hell no, I read that Lao-tzu Art o' War character- and he said: "This is so the Second Coming!"... or, maybe it was "Know Thy Enemy".

Soccer Mum said...

Rupert is a US citizen and News Corp moved from Adelaide to Delaware afterwards.

Mel was born in the USA and Olivia in the UK. And Nicole Kidman was born in Hawaii.

We are very selective about who gets to be one of us.

jqb said...

Maybe the word you were looking for was "typical".

He's also implying that, because it's supposedly "legitimate"/typical, we should have Dem secs of state who do the same thing in reverse. Like I said, it's a very Republican way of thinking.

George In Florida said...

I was told by my parents that in Florida, when the Dems were in power, it was even wors

WV: skies

Blue SKIES, smiling at me, nothing but blue SKIES, do I see!

jqb said...

New poll thread, McCain back down to 3.7%. Now the paranoid ignoramuses can go to sleep, and I will too.

jqb said...

I was told by my parents that in Florida, when the Dems were in power, it was even wors

Did they also tell you there's a bearded guy in the sky who loves you so much that he will make you suffer for all eternity if you don't kiss his ass?

Whether they did or not, people aren't reliable authorities just because they're your parents.

wv: delying -- correcting lies?

The Religious Left said...

(I know, I was really kidding...but not about Olivia Newton John! ha ha)

Seriously, I think we need some Immigration Control going on for Australia. Just because they're white and speak English. Sheesh!

Now, honestly, that's about as Xenophobic as a liberal can get. There's a whole "through the looking glass" thing going on here. Maybe we're talking Mayan Prophecy or something big like that, I don't know. It was encouraging when "Blue Dogs" came about in 2006. I think that there is that populist "Joe the HVAC Technician" whoops, "Plumber" vein of thinking that the GOP has just about monopolized, yet, with skill, determination, and message, it is transmutable. It's starting to happen. Reagan hypnotized blue collar people into thinking he had their interests at heart. Time to wake up from the hypnosis and get our country back on track. This little foray into NeoCon imperialism might be fixable too. Thank God for people like Jim Webb.

ian said...

Soccer Mum - glad to see another Aussie on here. I'm currently living in Bosnia and am following this US election with bated breath and a lot of hope.

The night that Howard lost both the election and his seat (brilliant) was just joyful and I hope you Americans get to share that joy.

Will people be posting on here t/out the evening? It'll be midnight CET here before anything starts to happen but I'm planning an afternoon nap and then an all night vigil where I'll no doubt be going from the TV screen to the computer and wondering where is best to keep track of what is happening. Then the next day I'll go to Free Republic to (hopefully) enjoy the schaudenfruede (sp?) of the horrible and often insane seeming people there gnashing their teeth and rending their garments.

Anyway, best of luck Yanks - I'm rooting for you, and if you know anything about Australia you'd know it is VERY rare that we would use that American term given what it means back home.

PS The Cup horse I backed before I left home got scratched so I can't even use that as a diversion.

someperson718 said...

There is a 5 point discrepency between cell phone polls and no cell phones? Something is going to break one way or the other. Let's just hope it's the cellphone polls way.

Jonathan said...

"The people who are nervous don't need reassurance about the polls reflecting public opinion, they need reassurance that what is shown in the polls will be reflected in turnout and won't be undermined by the Republicans' numerous methods of vote suppression."

Quite correct. Between a 36-hour barrage of Jeremiah Wright screaming "god damn America," widespread vote suppression, and outright fraud, the polls will turn out to have been "wrong all the while," and McCain will have mounted "the greatest comeback in the history of American politics."

The only solace I am taking in this debacle is that the next President will be the most hated man (or woman) in America in 2012.

Genevieve said...

The University of Cincinnati's Ohio Poll today puts the race at 51.5 percent for Obama, 45.7 percent for McCain, outside the margin of error.

University of Cincinnati: From Oct. 29 through Nov. 2, surveyed 1,308 probable voters, with a margin of error of +/- 2.7 percent.

http://www.ipr.uc.edu/documents/op110308.pdf

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/11/final_ohio_polls_put_obama_as.html

St. Nick said...

This is the way the Republicans fall,

not with a bang,

but with a whimper.

Can you say,

John McCain and the economy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhpO9xG2MY

David said...

Intriguing FYI -- Neil Newhouse's biz partner in Public Opinion Strategies is....wait for it..... Bill McInturff (McCain's pollster). I would doubt the 2 of them have such divergent polling #s for McInturff's upbeat memo of last week to be true.

clockiechn said...

LOL. Hey CNN! John King. You guys don't look that old. Well, maybe Wolfe. Get in step. The culture has changed. Just like the old thinking that Dems are big government. Repubs proved that wrong didn't they with the largest spending spree we have seen putting us right into socialism. On heels of a 10 Trill deficit when we had a 5 + Surplus 8 years ago. Why is there even a contest. Time for change guys.

Signed a Registered Independent.

skipr said...

Someone please explain. The 11/2 posting is about the accuracy of the NBC/WSJ poll, and about cellphone polling which includes info on NBC/WSJ. But I don't see NBC/WSJ in any of the polling tables, nor in the pollster evaluation table. Does it go by another name?

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mate said...

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freefun0616 said...

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酒店經紀人,
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酒店經紀人,
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禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
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制服酒店經紀,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
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酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
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制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,

,

freefun0616 said...

酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店經紀,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店工作,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,

,